You know what really grinds my gears about the finish to the Brock-Cena match? I’m watching this near-***** match, and I’m having the exact reaction as a jaded anti-Cena smark that WWE wanted. Lesnar is kicking the fucking shit out of Cena and I’m like “Yes! Kick the fucking shit out of this poser!” because although I like Cena as a worker I hate him as a character and sometimes it’s fun to mark out like that. So the match goes on, Cena is taking a vicious beating and bleeding all over, but gets the hope spots and I’m like “OK, Cena is taking a vicious beating but he keeps fighting, that’s pretty awesome of him if he’s losing”. And by the end, I’m WITH CENA. I’m sympathetic for him, and I’m ready to give him props and cheer for him once Brock finishes him off because he fought the good fight and lost like a man. And then he won as I was like “Well, fuck John Cena.” and everything was back to the way it was when we started. That’s what makes me so angry about the finish. They could have rehabbed Cena in exactly the way they’ve been desperate to do for years now and they FUCKED IT UP AGAIN. Never mind all the super-smarky armchair booking stuff that people will say motivating the anger and blah blah blah, but as a FAN I was going nuts for this thing and that ending just totally deflated me. I can only imagine what people who aren’t super-hardcore fans but wanted to see Cena beaten would have been thinking. Great job, WWE.
Definitely with you on that. What the finish is going to erase in people's minds is just how stiff and violent some of those shots were. There were at least 3 hard clean elbows that busted him open hardway. The knee to the ribs was a jumbo version of the ones that ended Matt Serra's UFC title reign. Some of the body shots Brock gave him did not appear to be pulled even in the slightest, probably some solid bruising there. And I know the angle with Cena's arm is just a write-off but Brock cranked the hell out of that kimura and Cena's arm just kept bending and bending before he hulked up and got out of it. I'm not exactly sure how they faked having Cena's elbow twist forward that far but that was pretty damn hardcore.
ReplyDeleteIn a month I'll forget how impressed I was with Cena's balls for taking all that. Couldn't agree more.
I can just imagine Vince jumping up and down in the back, yelling "See? See? Now the UFC fans will all come back to wrestling!"
ReplyDeleteThe end of this match books itself. Brock beats Cena to a bloody pulp, Cena refuses to give up, Brock won't take a pin; he wants Cena to quit. Finally, the refs stop the match because John can't continue. Cena flips off Brock with his last bit of energy as they drag his carcass out of there. Brock laughs and points to John's blood all over his chest. You have an instant heated feud; Brock looks strong, Cena didn't give up.
All I'll say is that my momentary anger about the finish could have been eroded if Brock had beaten the crap out of Cena immediately after the match was over and caused him to a stretcher job. Maybe have Brock beat up all the officials and medical personnel while he's at it, and have him F-5 Cena while he's on the gurney. But, no, we just have this big monster walk quietly to the back and while the guy he spent 15 minutes demolishing cuts a smiley-face promo!
ReplyDeleteLike I said in an earlier thread, I think the company is way too paranoid that they will traumatize the child viewers if they show Cena being demolished and cause them to stop watching. If they had this same mentality 20 years ago, then Hogan would have immediately leaped off the stretcher and cut a promo after Earthquake squashed him. Can't they just a start a kayfabe "Get Well Cena" campaign or something?
I agree with this. You could have built up Lesnar as a Bane type character putting Cena on the shelf for months. Lesnar runs through EVERYBODY(everyone) in squash type fashion. Lesnar doesn't give a shit with who you are, he likes destroying people. Build it to Cena returns(as a more serious, aggressive character that is sort of like stone cold and is not all happy and smiley) and goes after Lesnar and Cena gets his revenge by destorying lesnar.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I would have done.
I already wrote a lengthy diatribe defending the booking, but one more point to be made:
ReplyDeleteDon't you think this could be a test from McMahon to see if Brock will fall in line after jobbing? Remember he left with a prima donna attitude about losses; this could have easily been a test to see how he reacts the next month.
Brock was the UFC HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD. Why do you want him to "fall in line"? This is the only chance they'll ever have to get a former wrestling champion and former UFC champion in this position and now he's just another WWE Superstar(TM) and another guy who wins sometimes and loses sometimes.
ReplyDeleteVince is petty like that. Didn't say it was smart, just something that Vince would do.
ReplyDeleteI think we can all agree they shouldn't have had Cena/Lesnar until the summer.
ReplyDeleteFor the first time in a while, I have to disagree with Scott. I was in Chicago for Wrestlemania 22. An hour before that show started, with no image or sound bite of Cena in sight, there were hearty "Cena sucks" and "Fuck you Cena" chants. The fans didn't just want him to lose, they wanted bodily harm done to him. I watched Money in the Bank and the sentiment was the same, as it has been every time he has in that crowd with those die-hard fans.
ReplyDeleteAnyone that thinks the booking decision hurt the reaction the company desired for Cena is completely wrong. When Cena hits Lesnar with the chain near the finish of that match, the Chicago crowd came unglued and from that point on, Vince and Co. had an 80-20 reaction IN FAVOR of John that they probably could have never imagined.
The decision worked, at least on that night, exactly how they wanted it to. The crowd in Chicago, that hated Cena far more than it had hated any wrestler prior, finally (for the most part) embraced him.
Cena just Tweeted that he will be on Raw tonight to address his injury. I imagine Brock gets his heat back and destroys the ever-loving shit out of Cena to send him away for awhile. Brock won't be hurt by this loss because he dominated before getting too cocky and being outthought. It is almost the exact same scenario from the Cena-Rock match that everyone praised. Forget the fact that Cena won the match because, at the end of the day, he needed a metal chain and steel ring steps to do it. Lesnar will be fine and Cena had the breakthrough with the audience (thanks to a hell of a match) that he's needed for a long time.
Or Brock could have just won the match and accomplished all that as well.
ReplyDeleteNot only did Cena need steps and the chain, but Lesnar picked up the chain a few times and opted NOT to use it. He can always claim he didn't need any weapons but his hands to destroy Cena
ReplyDeletePerhaps it's coincidence or maybe it was deliberate, but wasn't this essentially what happened in his first UFC match? He completely dominated his opponent, only to lose because of a "rookie mistake"?
ReplyDeleteIn my view, the booking was backwards. Cena should have beat Rock and lost to Lesnar.
I honestly thought that Cena looked completely outmatched against Brock. Brock was realistic while Cena was cartoony. Every time Cena fought back it looked like it was b/c he was scripted to do so, not b/c he actually was able to do so. The "bowling shoe ugly" aspect of Brock's offense is what drew me in, and Cena simply doing his parts at the right time took me out.
ReplyDeleteIt boils down to Cena basically having one move - the AA - that he used to win the match. A single move took Brock out. Where was Cena struggle in doing everything he could to put Brock away? Instead, it was simply Cena doing everything he could to hit his one move, which happens to be so almighty and powerful that no one can come back from it.
If anything, they made it look like Brock beat himself.
I don't know why anyone thought Cena was going to lose. Obviously, from a common sense point of view, Cena loses to set up the big rematch. But the WWE has proved for about, oh, 6 years that John Cena never loses.
ReplyDeleteLike Vince McMahon was going to let a "UFC guy" come in and pin his prized possession. Didn't we spend all last week discussing the Invasion and McMahon's obsession with making WCW look bad? And WCW was HIS PROPERTY!
Scott, this is a totally SPOT ON evaluation of why the finish was such a botched opportunity for the WWE to really make some worthwhile change. The kids/parents/etc. who are already Cena fans wouldn't have changed their tune one bit if the match went exactly as it did and he just didn't have enough to pull out the win. But other people who have been so disenchanted by the character would have had the chance to open their minds again if they showed him to be REAL and HUMAN and not go right back to the Superman BS.
ReplyDeleteMore than anything, this match - this feud really - was just SCREAMING for it to be the Austin/Hart style from 1997 where both guys have the chance to come out of it on fire and super over if they run it the right way. It's funny because the WWE runs so many storylines into the ground like the screwjobs inspired by Montreal, the heel authority character, even now with Ryback on the Goldberg squash push, but they had this golden angle that helped turn Austin into a total superstar and they've never really repeated that one at all, even in a situation like this that was PERFECT.
Sure, maybe Brock comes out tonight on RAW and destroys Cena in front of a much larger TV audience, but last night was the opportunity to truly signal that this monster was different, this monster was unquestionably here to bring about pain and change and that even Super Cena didn't have enough to stop him. Instead, we get this.
I would imagine that Brock has to have a fair amount of say on how he's booked, no? I can't imagine, considering all the other concessions, that he doesn't have some deal of final approval.
ReplyDeleteBut the WWE has proved for about, oh, 6 years that John Cena never loses.
ReplyDeleteExcept for that time he lost at the main event of Wrestlemania for the second year in a row. Or the main event of back-to-back ppvs against Punk. Or a week ago against Fat Albert.
Other than that, he just never loses.
But he didn't have to win the match. Is anyone realistically going to think Brock is any less of an ass-kicker or dominating presence than he was before Extreme Rules because he lost after a shot to the skull with a steel chain and an Attitude Adjustment on the steel steps? Not to mention after destroying Cena for 15:00, busting him open and injuring his arm? Just like everyone argued that Cena lost nothing by losing to a star on the level of The Rock, Brock Lesnar lost nothing by losing to a star the caliber of Cena.
ReplyDeleteTo say Brock is "just another one of the guys that wins some and loses some" after one match, a lost to the biggest star of this generation, is a little premature. Had he lost to Kofi Kingston or Brodus Clay, I get the outrage. But he lost to John Cena in fairly fluky fashion.
Brock is a gigantic mainstream star who drew more, by himself, in his limited PPV appearances than WWE did for most of the year COMBINED. To say that there's nothing wrong with losing to Cena is ridiculous. It would be like bringing in Mike Tyson in 1998 and having him lose to Shawn Michaels because there's nothing wrong with losing to a star of Shawn's caliber. Yeah, maybe in the bubble of pro wrestling, but all it does is bring the bigger star down to the level of the WWE.
ReplyDeleteI sort of think the finish leads to John being gone and while he is Brock gets the title and runs through everyone with Cena being the only one who can seemingly beat him leading to a match at Summerslam where Brock goes over and the rubber match at Mania.
ReplyDelete"Other than that, he just never loses."
ReplyDeleteYeah, exactly. You can name every time he's lost in the past 2 years. That's my point.
No, you're point was he "never" loses. I demonstrated that he's lost quite a few big matches over the past 13 months.
ReplyDeleteThat booking for the FU/AA is so stupid anyway, because it's just not a killer kind of move. Anything with a flat back bump is by necessity kind of weak sauce, since almost everyone understands that flat backs, while still being a little painful, are basically safe bumps. Cena needs a only-for-dire-situations killer finish he can bust out when all else fails in big matches, and it needs to be something that looks completely devastating, like a Ganso bomb or something.
ReplyDeleteLet's think about the fact that, by the transitive property, Cena is better than Lesnar and the rest of the WWE roster but not better than Lord Tensai, or The Rock. So basically, Lesnar and all of the UFC heavyweight division from 2009 along with everyone in WWE are worse fighters than the Hip Hop Hippo and the Tooth Fairy.
ReplyDeleteThat was such a weird fucking finish. I'm kind of bummed only because if Cena was ever going to get demolished, this was the time. I can't imagine ANY parents were pumping their kids up like "Don't worry Cena's got this."
ReplyDeleteI know for my own part I'd been prepping my son and his friends for a vicious beatdown for weeks now. It was fun to have that mark-out moment last night, but at what cost? Lesnar's now just some dude.
Some dude who, going by wrestling logic, can now be defeated by Rock AND Albert...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Superman
ReplyDeleteSuperman "won" his fight against Doomsday, too.
Ok Internet. You have to stop making predictions that are too logical. WWE writers read these and then make changes.
ReplyDeleteThis uncannily my exact reaction too. I mentioned as much in a couple other threads. Apparently my entire perspective on wrestling has been so informed by growing up reading Scott that I'm now having the exact same reactions. Thanks, I guess?
ReplyDeleteI never even thought of the "job Lesnar to make UFC look bad" thing. Doesn't make it a good idea, but least it's something other than jobbing a guy just because everyone thinks he's gonna win, which I think is what gave us Cena jobbing at WM.
ReplyDeleteYes, but he died first.
ReplyDeleteLike I said in the other thread, if this was the plan all along, they should have saved their money and just pushed Ryback or Tensai or something. Only Vince McMahon would pay $5 million to ensure that Cena gets a face pop in one town and to put a former employee "in their place". Money well spent, sir.
ReplyDeleteIf Cena just absolutely, positively had to go over here, there were so many better options than "Cena hits his MOVE and wins, then cuts a goofy promo while Brock crawls away sheepishly in the background". That's just asinine.
Stone Cold Steve Austin drew huge crowds. The Rock drew huge crowds. Hulk Hogan drew huge crowds. All drew huge buyrates and brought in a lot of money. Are we to believe they shouldn't have lost to anyone? Sure, Hogan bought into his own hype and rarely did lose but are we honestly supposed to believe that, because Brock draws money an that he is never suposed to lose?
ReplyDeleteCena is WWE's biggest draw but, when he wins consistently and no one beats him, it's terrible booking and bad for business. But Brock is a huge draw and he can beat everyone?
Too many people overrate the draw that Brock Lesnar was with UFC. That was the perfect storm. Fans of MMA paid to see Brock Lesnar get destroyed because he was a cocky and arrogant pro wrestler. They wanted to pay their money to see one of "their guys" shut him up. He also had a heavyweight presence that lended itself to that sport extremely well.
But he was never a mainstream draw. And he was never a huge draw in professional wrestling. He never had the the numbers of Rock or Austin. The fans never invested in him the way the company wanted and, outside of big fans of him, like yourself Scott, I would be hard-pressed to say WWE fans missed him much.
I'm not arguing that Lesnar SHOULD have lost. I'm not arguing that Cena SHOULD have won. I'm arguing that this isn't nearly the disaster you think it is. Not one single person is going to think less of Brock Lesnar after that performance, after that MOTY candidate from last night, than they did going in. The booking was so good, the match was so stiff and ugly and brutal, that if anything, more people will be interested in him than they were before. I think you are overrating Cena's win and Brock's loss, and underrating how the public will look at Brock after the beating he gave John Cena last night. No one is saying "damn it, Cena won AGAIN last night." Except for hardcore fans of Brock, they are saying "wow, Cena actually won that." Those are two very different reactions.
No, we can't agree. The fact that Cena was taking time off was a perfect vehicle for a Rocky 3 storyline and Cena comes out of the whole deal like the babyface the company wants him to be.
ReplyDeleteInstead, he takes a huge beating and immediately he's back to "hi mom" ~ smirk.
And if Cena is gone for a month or two due to injury, does that count?
ReplyDeleteI think it's fair to say this is the most idiotic booking decision that WWE has ever made. I'm serious as a heart attack. The Invasion was awful, but it was also more complicated. It was more like death by a million paper cuts. This was a straightforward decision of who wins, who loses, and WWE made the impossibly wrong choice. And anyone who is defending it, who isn't outraged by this level of idiocy, doesn't know a fucking thing about professional wrestling. Period.
ReplyDeleteI've really enjoyed the WWE in recent months but some of the booking decisions have been incredible;
ReplyDelete1) Sheamus winning the Rumble out of nowhere, when all logic seemed to point to Jericho winning. I like Sheamus but, like his first title win, this victory was so out of the blue that it didn't really benefit him.
2) Bryan losing in 18 seconds at Wrestlemania when many people, including myself, had purchased the event partly to see that match. It deflated the crowd and left a sour taste right from the start of the biggest event of the year.
3) Kane beating Randy Orton at Wrestlemania. Why? Kane is a respected veteran but what possible reason was there for him going over in that match? If rumors of an Orton v Lesnar Summerslam main event are true, why have him lose at 'Mania against a B-List guy like Kane?
4) Rock beating Cena. I'm torn on this one as part of me actually feels this was the right decision. It let the crowd go home happy and prevented the Rock becoming another Mick Foley. But at a time when Wrestlemania is in danger of becoming a showcase for part-timers, this wasn't exactly a booking decision that showed much faith in the current generation.
5) Cena beating Brock. Just senseless in so many ways. Forget the salary they're paying him, i'm more concerned about them promoting him as an indestructible monster, only to have him lose clean in his first match. Scott also makes a brilliant point about the outcome diluting any chance of using the sympathy and respect Cena would have generated in defeat to evolve his character.
These things are so frustrating as a fan because they're so close to making the product more compelling than it's been for ten years - but these decisions are ruining the momentum they've built up.
On a separate note, i'm pretty confident that HHH's appearance on Raw tonight is going to lead to him being Brock's next opponent.
He DIED. He didn't get a partial beatdown and then take off for vacation "You handle him for a few months Booster Gold!"
ReplyDeleteI really wish somebody in WWE was reading all of these comments and going, "See I told you this was a stupid idea. Jobbing Brock to Cena right away." But we all know if you take the writers of the wwe and vince, their combined I.Q.'s would be plus +/- 17.
ReplyDeleteI get it, Rock played that character in a movie!
ReplyDeleteAlbert point is valid.
ReplyDeleteSo if Brock is so worthless, why pay him $5 million in the hopes that he'll bring some extra eyes to the product? I'm not even disagreeing with you about Brock's actual value, but if you're going to pay someone that much money and hype him to the moon, shouldn't you get all the value you can out of the guy before beating him and turning him into just another guy to fall to Cena? Unless this show does 900,000 buys or something, it just seems like a waste of time and money.
ReplyDeleteI guarantee it's more like "Look at all this buzz we've created! Look at all those smarks they're so *surprised* they don't know what to do with themselves!"
ReplyDeleteSee, because we're dumb marks on the internet. There's no way we would know more than a Hollywood writer that's been on the job for sixteen months not with the paltry decades of wrestling viewing most of us have under our belts. No way.
They have made Lesnar just another guy and now I don't care that he has returned. The top guy already beat him, where do we go from here?
ReplyDeleteSo Cena has to actually die for this story to work for you?
ReplyDeleteNo but losing a match would have been sufficient. If he's taking time off *anyway* why the hell wouldn't you go with the story that writes itself?
ReplyDeleteWhat's left for Cena to prove now? Rocky, that's it. Lesnar is no bigger a threat than Prince fucking Albert now, think about that lol.
All I hear is like Scott said, the money going down the drain. You could have made the KIDS HATE Lesnar by destroying their hero. Then they could have made somebody else by having them beat Brock finally.
ReplyDeleteIn wrestling terms, being out for a few months is akin to a comic book death.
ReplyDeleteImagine if their first meeting, Superman just destroys Doomsday, story over. You wouldn't of made all that cash off of "The Death of Superman". Now, you won't make all that money off of the Cena gets revenge storyline and it was right there since the dude is going on vacation.
Agreed. They had a chance to make Lesnar the biggest heel we've seen in a decade at least. Now I'd be shocked if there's any money in him at all, even a match with Rocky the winner seems clear.
ReplyDeleteThey did it just to shock us, but they shot themselves in the foot sort of.
ReplyDeleteVince McMahon Books "Rocky III":
ReplyDelete- An overconfident Rocky beats his overmatched opponents handily while Clubber Lang seethes in the background waiting for his opportunity.
- Clubber takes the initiative by challenging Rocky in a public forum and insulting his manhood. He also hits on Adrian for good measure, sending Rocky into a rage and increasing interest in the match tenfold.
- Mick worries that Clubber is too young, angry and hungry for Rocky to handle, and urges him to be careful. Rocky dismisses his concerns.
- Rocky beats Clubber in the first round and then cuts a long speech about going on vacation while his bloodied opponent crawls around on the mat in the background looking for his teeth. The remainder of the film consists of the wacky adventures of Mick and Pauly as they go underwear shopping.
Yeah.
The most amazing part was watching the live thread turn from "Fuck Cena" to "Wow ok...we knew he was jobbing but jesus this is like...too real".
ReplyDeleteMaybe the best crowd control via booking since Hart/Austin, ALL THAT good will they fostered with the smarks in regards to Cena's character and they just *instantly* piss it away not only with the finish but especially that promo.
Though I will say at least this has sort of proved Cena's toughness to me, the poor guy's been out there taking hard-way punches and elbows every week for a month now. Those elbows at the start of the match were fucking vicious.
But Brock Lesnar is not devalued. He lost a match to the biggest star in wrestling after getting hit in the face with a chain and pinned after an Attitude Adjustment onto the stairs. It's not like he is just another Cena fall guy. He was not soundly defeated. Brock Lesnar beat the shit out of John Cena. No one thinks any less of his ass-kicker value today than they did Saturday night or Thursday night or Monday night.
ReplyDeletePeople are not any less-likely to buy a WWE pay-per-view than they are after THAT match last night. If anything, they are more likely.
Besides, they tipped their hat Monday night that something like this may happen when cocky, badass UFC fighter Brock Lesnar made demands and was nonchalant when Cena confronted him. He underestimated Cena and lost. That is a real story that happens every day in professional sports. Cena didn't bury Brock like some other opponents have been. Instead, John was lucky to win. Brock doesn't look bad and no money has been thrown away.
Relax and see how they follow things up. I do agree with everyone, however, that Brock cannot tolerate many of these losses. But this one? Not nearly the big deal everyone thinks it is.
For only $55? Count me in!
ReplyDeleteAlthough in a weird way, Bryan jobbing out in 18 seconds may have been a good decision in the long run, because the fans have really taken a point in backing him up.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing about Brock is that he pretty much has to be presented in a certain way to be effective. He's not going to cut dynamic promos like the Rock or Punk or give amazing in-ring performances like HBK or Angle or connect with the audience in an organic way like Austin or Hogan. And he's certainly not a freak of nature like Show. So, his value is in the fact that he has a legitimate background and is presented and treated like an absolute killing machine who just can't be stopped by normal means. That's how he got over in the first place. But he has to have the reign of terror BEFORE someone finally stops him, not afterwards. Otherwise, you kill what makes him special in the first place and render him no different than half a dozen other guys on the roster.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing we'll see Lesnar beat the hell out of Cena tonight and Cena will get taken away in an ambulance.
ReplyDeleteThen Lesnar attacks HHH at the end of the show.
Superman beat Doomsday. He got fucked up really bad doing it, but he beat him. Cena spoke last night about how he was going away for a while.
ReplyDeleteReads a lot like Death of Superman.
Brock is unique and that's why they blew it. They're never going to have an opportunity like this and the fact that they decided to tell the story ass backwards is just dumb only to be made dumber by the fact that Cena is going on vacation.
ReplyDeletePro wrestling is not real life or real sports, it's a worked choreographed soap opera and because Brock is unique, not drawing out the logical storyline of sooooo many succesful films and tv shows before it by having him win and then have the avenging hero return to overcome the odds at a non-B ppv is throwing money away.
Not even Doomsday can evolve to overcome WWE Creative.
ReplyDeleteMost controversial finish since the Screwjob?
ReplyDeleteYou know what makes me sad?
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Vince Russo couldn't have fucked this up...but somehow...
I guess it has to be. I don't relate this to the screwjob at all, to me this screams "Invasion" in bright neon letters.
ReplyDeleteI mean, just as far as "buzzy" finishes go. I haven't stopped talking about it across multiple sites, and I imagine this thread will be busy for a while as well.
ReplyDeleteI never got to that sympathy for Cena part that I see so many people say that they went through. I just wanted Lesnar to break him. Unlike others, I'm done with Cena for the career. There's nothing else left for him to do. As awful as this sounds, I want him to go away so the WWE finally has to get completely behind someone else. HBK had that back injury. Austin had his neck problems. Rock went to Hollywood. Brock left. All these top guys were gone and forced the WWE to put the spotlight on someone else. As great a worker, Cena is, he's detrimental to the product as the WWE will always value him over its other workers so they're hesistant to take a chance. He main events over both world titles in a who's the face of the WWE match. The WWE champion should be the face of the WWE.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with Scott here. This should have been Cena getting his ass kicked the whole time and mounting his usual babyface comeback until he makes a mistake and gets caught by Lesnar in a submission to play up the UFC thing. Make him endure the hold for an insane amount of time until he finally has no choice but to tap. Have Cena stand in the middle of the ring and get the show of respect from the audience like with Benoit after his loss to Angle. The match was booked perfectly up until the very end and I have to agree. Any money to be made from Brock and a potential rematch has been pissed away. Ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteI'm agreeing with a lot of what Erik is saying on this one. On another post, I said that I admit that Lesnar winning would be the most logical move for the end of that match (and I still believe that), but...
ReplyDelete1. Cena would've lost two "superfights" in a row; how in the heck do you promote a third if he keeps on losing?
2. Cena did lose one superfight at 'Mania, but he still sold the next one/this one. Lesnar can do the same due to his monstrous aura, legitimate resume, and his brash personality. Lesnar would still be the "favorite" going into any match next time around.
3. How Lesnar reacts could be a more intriguing angle than the simple "monster runs through everybody until Survivor Series or WM". I also have noted that this puts me in the dreaded "Wait and See" Camp. This camp regrets their choice 9 times out of 10 when it comes to the WWE.
The conundrum is this: If Cena is taking time off and has just lost a couple of matches, then how do you throw a bone to Cena fans (half of the paying fanbase, btw) and entice them to hang around while he's gone but without hurting Lesnar? I think WWE painted themselves in a corner.
I would argue that Cena losing 2 superfights in a row would've been a good thing as his character needs an overhaul and since they're not turning him heel....well, Scott pretty much sums this up way better than I can in his OP.
ReplyDeleteAs disappointed as I was in the finish, I'm still happy to see Brock in a WWE ring again and kicking ass! If he performs like this for the rest of his year-long tenure, I am so down with the clown.
ReplyDeleteI'm not doom and gloom about the angle yet. Hopefully, tonight's RAW furthers the story in an intriguing way.
There's reports where Cena may or may not star in the next Marine movie now that Orton's out. Other candidates are Punk, JTG, Kofi and Cody Rhodes.
ReplyDeleteMy thing is this: why not all of them? Why do WWE Films do these projects starring solo wrestlers? They could do an Expendables-like bad-ass franchise with stars like Austin, Cena, HHH and others or other action movie projects like that. Yeah, the movies won't be good but they'd be a lot more marketable than the fucking Chaperone with it's one-day theatrical release.
Superman didn't give a speech after his fight, he died.
ReplyDeleteTrue. But I keep on thinking about that group of kids in the front row wearing Cena shirts at Extreme Rules. There are reports that kids were crying in the arena while Cena was getting his butt kicked and was busted open.
ReplyDeleteI was very upset as a 7-8 year old watching Earthquake squash Hogan on the Brother Love show. The beatdown Lesnar gave to Cena was about ten times worse than that. Watching those kids with looks of astonishment and horror on their faces... you just GOTTA throw them a bone to keep them happy (and their parents as well) at some point. You don't want to scar them and turn them away from the product in Cena's absence.
I'm a softie, though. After the story Cena sold us last night and the kids' reactions...I was okay with things. It was still highly questionable to give him a win over Lesnar, but I have no doubt Lesnar can turn things up even a few more notches in a quest for destrucity.
Just had a thought: what if they're trying for Brock vs. Frank Mir? In their first fight, Brock decimated Mir but got caught with a desperation submission hold and was defeated. Then Brock got SERIOUS about MMA and destroyed everyone while the "lucky submission" burned in him.
ReplyDeleteCena got in a lucky finisher and defeated Brock. What if tonight we see an even scarier Brock (hopefully with Viking beard)?
"Every time Cena fought back it looked like it was b/c he was scripted to
ReplyDeletedo so, not b/c he actually was able to do so. The "bowling shoe ugly"
aspect of Brock's offense is what drew me in, and Cena simply doing his
parts at the right time took me out."
It boils down to the fact that Cena is not a shooter and cant hang with Brock in a fight so how else could they book the match? Ending aside, they had to book Lesnar as dominant with the realistic offense and Cena only getting a few lucky shots in. Imagine if they tried to have Cena try some UFC-like strikes and submissions. Yeah... no. I guess the other alternative would have been for more of a WWE SportzEntertainment main event like their Backlash 2003 fight but that too wouldnt have been as awesome as what we got and youre further making Brock 'just another guy' by having him assimilate his style to the WWE man event milieu. So I'm afraid there wasnt much of an alternative.
"I also have noted that this puts me in the dreaded "Wait and See" Camp. This camp regrets their choice 9 times out of 10 when it comes to the WWE."
ReplyDeleteYes indeedy.
Winning draws.
ReplyDeletePeople aren't going to care that Cena "needed a chain", he still won, and Brock lost. Just like when Punk beat Cena twice, it didn't matter that it was because Cena's foot was on the ropes in one match and Johnny Ace tried to ring the bell on Punk in the other, he still lost to Punk twice.
Except he lost his first match back in 8 years. The mystique is gone.
ReplyDeleteWell, we'll see if WWE rewards your faith in their decision-making.
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty much what I'm hoping for too, and it's plausible because he could say he hasn't had a fight/match of any type for awhile. That's the only way this is salvageable, otherwise, it makes no sense at all.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you realize that you're essentially saying that anyone over the age of twelve can go spit, right? This is probably why most people in that age group prefer UFC.
ReplyDeleteBecause all the big stars would need to take time off to film and we'd have to watch Miz vs. Santino main events on RAW for 8 weeks.
ReplyDeleteIt reminded me of Lesnar's biggest UFC losses, where nobody really expects him to lose, and he just chokes.
ReplyDeleteOr they could have a random new guy (Darren Young?) dress up like Cena and end up being the one to destroy Lesnar!
ReplyDelete(but seriously, what you said is exactly what they should've done)
Thank you! As a diehard Hulkamaniac at the time (I was 6), I bought hook, line and sinker into the Get Well Hulk campaign. So much great sympathy, and I honestly was scared Hulk was gone for good after that situation.
ReplyDeleteI liked this comment, but I'm not really sure I agree -- I think Cain was the favorite heading into their fight, and Overeem was a 50-50 situation.
ReplyDeleteOMGSOHILARIOUS
ReplyDeleteSuperman didn't give a speech after his fight, he died you dummy!
ReplyDeleteI agree, the F5 should be built as a MDK move. Most people likely don't remember Kurt kicking out of two at Mania XIX.
ReplyDeleteI would argue he does have those amazing in-ring performances in him. Prime Brock was the best athlete I've ever seen in a wrestling ring, and his matches against Eddie, Kurt, 'Taker, Benoit and Rey were phenomenal, not entirely due to the opponents, either.
ReplyDeleteJohn Cena has always gotten destroyed by Brock. So, he finally wins one match against after losing all those matches years later. He's grown as a wrestler and can overcome the odds. It's clearly longevity storytelling, which you guys are all about and yet, when it happens, you guys shit your pants and cry foul.
ReplyDeleteBrock fucking destroyed Cena and got cocky, so he lost. It's perfect booking because Brock is going into ape shit mode and going to run through everybody, even Ryback.
Everyone knows this! You are so right.
ReplyDeleteSting/Hogan, Goldberg/Nash, and Fingerpoke of Doom were all shortly after the Screwjob.
ReplyDeleteHHH/Booker was pretty controversial, although the stakes weren't as high.
I think we need to step back and see where this goes. If Brock's run is a creative and financial disaster then I could see this finish taking on mythical proportions.
Brock didn't even win his "first" WWE match. He got disqualified.
ReplyDeleteUh, it was a draw if anything. BOTH guys died at the end. And Supes didn't stand up triumphantly and tell everyone he was going to die for a little while. He died in the arms of the woman he loved, only managing to whisper a few words before dying.
ReplyDeleteThis felt like ending the Death of Superman after the first chapter. This is like Supes saving the JLA, getting punched a bunch and then the story ending when he deposits Doomsday in the lake/river/whatever body of water it was.
But Brock DID use the chain. He tied Cena up, hung him from the post and left him defenseless to an onslaught of punches.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. A rematch tonight and COMPLETE ass kicking by Lesnar could fix this, easily.
ReplyDeleteYup, they could have had a double turn here. Honestly, I would have assumed that was impossible.
ReplyDeleteI don't see 2012 Brock living up to that after the UFC sojourn and all the injuries. Could be wrong, though.
ReplyDeleteYeah, turning him into a martyr actually made him way way way more popular. It was a good move - but not for the reason they expected.
ReplyDeleteOr storytelling.
ReplyDeleteWell HHH hates the internet so he'd be sitting there saying, "They don't know what their talking about. They've never been in the ring" while drinking a protein shake.
ReplyDeleteOvercoming the odds of the big bad evil heel happens at the end of long-term storytelling, not at the beginning.
ReplyDeleteWhat if Luke beat Vader in Empire?
What if Daniel beat Johnny in the street fight instead of the tournament?
What if Rocky would've beat Clubber Lang by a lucky shot in their first encounter?
It's ass backwards and not "perfect booking" and not "long-term storytelling".
Defend the fact that Cena is going on vacation, dare you.
...and when he died he didn't smile at Lois, ask her how he looked and say, "If I was going to die, there was no better town I rather do it in than Metropolis. Good Night everybody!!"
ReplyDeleteWell, creatively, they took about 5 steps backwards so now they have to rescue it instead of doing the obvious and right thing.
ReplyDeleteI've yet to read a single post that can defend the fact that Cena is going on vacation. Oh, Brock hurt him, but yet Cena cut a promo, said hi to his momma and Lesnar was the one that slinked away on his hands and knees bleeding.
Someone please defend the fact that Cena is going away.
Sometimes the obvious booking move is the right one and it's been proven to draw money since the territory days.
He should have been stretchered out or helped to the back.
ReplyDeleteBesides Punk Jericho could have gone on last and PUNK could have given the, "Thank you, Chicago." speech since, you know...it's his home town and he's the Champ and all.
The only way to salvage this now is to turn Lesnar face, having Big Johnny basically revoke all of the privileges promised earlier on because he "couldn't get the job done". Take Cena off television for a few months while Brock starts running roughshod through the promotion to dismantle the establishment. Then have Cena come back to thunderous boos despite having "proved himself" by beating Lesnar, and sell out and come to the defense of Laurinaitis.
ReplyDeleteAnd to think, even this set-up would be the same retread that we've seen for ten years now, barring a few tweaks here or there. But considering how close to dead Brock's value is now after the loss, you might as well go retread with a fresh face over letting it all collapse.
If I was watching wrestling with somebody and they said any variation of "well that's a flat back bump and is basically safe. How on earth can he get the pin on THAT?" I think it would just make me really sad. And want to sit elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteYou're missing the point. If he took an ass-whooping of such magnitude that office had to step in on several ocassions and threaten to stop the match and made a crowd of Cena haters actually begin to CARE about his well being he should not of walked out on his own power, let alone smile and play to the camera afterwards.
ReplyDeleteTo make matters worse he TOLD people that he was taking time off. This negates any announcement of an injury thaazt would put him on the shelf or if Brock lays him out and injures him because they know he was leaving.
Exactly, and that's whole idea isn't it? You build sympathy for the babyface by making the heel do something nobody else can seem to do (take out the top guy) and you've got a hot story to sell the kiddies who now see the future of their hero in doubt.
ReplyDeleteBrock is the perfect guy to cast in that role too -- based on his look and the fact, the way he works, and on the fact that he's already done it before with the Rock to perfection. If you get 90% of the way there and then just treat him like every other guy, then you take the edge off the whole thing and you end up with another match between Cena and a guy he's already overcome. It's like the WWE is allergic to money or is so worried of making Brock look legit that they
I mentioned this in the other thread -- Summer Slam 1990 had nearly as many buys as WrestleMania VI did, with the tired Warrior/Rude feud on top paired with Hulk Hogan against a guy that had never main evented a PPV. They sold it all on the strength of that story and the "Get Well Hulk" campaign. They've got a great angle to steal, they might as well steal it!
I made this point in the other thread but I wouldn't blame WWE for this decision if it came because of fear that Brock would leave them high and dry after beating a bunch of their top guys but before he could be beaten.
ReplyDeleteI'm in the "wait and see" camp, and am genuinely curious to see how this plays out. And I wasn't necessarily looking forward to seeing Brock dominate everyone for close to a year and then lose *1* match on his way out (whether it was Rock, Cena, or Taker). That's the kinda thing that sounds great on paper but talk to me in the dog days of late summer/early fall when there's no doubt as to the outcome of Brock's match with (fill in the blank). It would get mighty boring/stale. In the age of 4 hours per week of original programming it's no fun to see guys dominate and *never* lose. Cena and HHH are the only examples and I got tired of both of them. How many times can you run "Brock runs wild and squashes opponent at PPV" before we become indifferent.
I can understand the argument that the Brock dominating scenario could lead to more $$$, but why do we care how many people buy the PPV? I want to be entertained, and that PPV last night was great. Plus tonight we might be getting a HHH/Brock confrontation, which for me is Brock's biggest dream matchup. Fuck Cena, Rock, Taker, Orton, or Punk. THIS is the pairing I was most excited for.
"1. Cena would've lost two "superfights" in a row; how in the heck do you promote a third if he keeps on losing?"
ReplyDeleteThey should have never put him in one to begin with. They should have laid Cena out on RAW and gave him his time off. There were plenty of other wrestlers that could have done the match at the PPV:
- Sacrifice his "Bro-ski" Zack Ryder.
- Have him kill Santino and let him run with the U.S. belt.
- Someone on another board brought up that they could have brought in Rey Misterio for one night and have Lesnar kill him and put him on the shelf for 2 months to cover for his wellness violation.
And as I said before they could have made a killing selling "Get well Cena" wristbandsto kids like they did when Earthquake squashed Hogan.
ReplyDeleteThat would be great.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point. Still, they could use retired stars as well. Terry Funk, Foley, Taker, Piper, etc.
ReplyDeleteI dunno. I think if some of these movies had more wrestling stars in them, they may do a little better. It's worth a shot, especially considering how putrid their film division is right now.
So if was the "Death of Superman" storyline, would Young be Superboy or the cyborg?
ReplyDeleteAnd here we are 22 years later and he's STILL HERE.
ReplyDeleteActually, he didn't die.
ReplyDeleteGiven this company's track record, I fully expect Brock to make a ton of excuses tonight and turn into a generic, typical WWE heel, similar to his character in Fall 2003.
ReplyDeleteBrock and Cena had a feud way back in 2003. Brock demolished him. Cena perfected his craft over the next nine years. Brock comes back looking to destroy Cena again because destroying Cena is fun to him. He dominates Cena as he once did, but Cena has learned Brock will let the cockiness take over, so he will weather the storm and overcome the odds.
ReplyDeleteIt took Cena nine years to defeat a dude and he barely did it. If that's not Rocky-esque, I don't know what is.
You were so horrified by Earthquake's squashing of Hogan that you... are currently on a message board 20 years later still talking about wrestling. I don't see the harm.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing great about the Miz.
ReplyDeleteThey'd still find a laundry list of people to job Ziggler to.
ReplyDeleteThis. A freaking ganso bomb? REALLY?
ReplyDeleteOne, they didn't bring up their first match so it wasn't part of the story. Second, Brock got (kayfabe) meaner and badder by winning the UFC HWT. Third, Cena is going on vacation, why ignore this point?
ReplyDeleteI guess you like to burn money as much as the WWE.
I can go with that. Brock will interrupt Cenas speech, beats the brakes off of him untill officials have to pull them apart. One of those officials will be HHH. They do a staredown to end the show.
ReplyDeleteor
The show starts with a pipe-wielding Brock standing over Cena's prone body and the officials are trying to pull him off. One of those officials will be HHH. They do a staredown to start the show.
I was going more for the Jean-Paul Valley/Knightfall deal with my joke, but Darren Young would obviously be the Eradicator.
ReplyDelete"Is anyone realistically going to think Brock is any less of an ass-kicker or dominating presence than he was before Extreme Rules because he lost after a shot to the skull with a steel chain and an Attitude Adjustment on the steel steps?"
ReplyDeleteActually, yes. He lost the match, so clearly he didn't kick ass enough.
They could still use the montage of him on the Muppet Show and him and Adrian frolicking in the field for vacation shots.
ReplyDelete1. Cena would've lost two "superfights" in a row; how in the heck do you promote a third if he keeps on losing?
ReplyDeleteTwo losses isn't exactly a huge losing streak. Besides, Cena has been winning and winning and winning for YEARS. It's okay for him to take a couple of losses, go home, reevaluate, and then come back fresh and ready to rise above that adversity.
Good god in heaven, no one said Lesnar should NEVER lose. What a strawman. We're saying that having him lose his FIRST MATCH IN, in a STREET FIGHT no less, totally, completely, utterly kills off all chance they had to do something special with him.
ReplyDeleteOkay....so now what?
ReplyDeleteYou've just described the ending to the story. But this was the BEGINNING. Lesnar just got back. Now the story's already over, unless you think the monster heel having to chase a win over the face is scintillating television. I don't.
Cena kicking out of the F5 would have been fine if like I said it had led to Lesnar breaking out a new submission move and getting the victory, but as it stands the F5 is "just another move" now.
ReplyDeleteHe went away for a while BEFORE he beat Doomsday, not after.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that kind of changes the narrative from a viewer perspective to, "I can only believe it if I go in thinking that it's two guys trying to do a fake fight, but then one guy does a shoot move at the end and actually knocks the guy he was faking with out, thus making him the better fighter."
ReplyDeleteMy idea on how to save this is completely out there, and will never happen as long as the WWE is PG. But there is a way to salvage this mess (and it's not by having Brock just destroy Cena tonight. He still lost, which removes his "mystique").
ReplyDeleteTonight, have Triple H come out, and reveal that John Cena has tested positive for PEDs. Have him bring out Cena, who ADMITS to using them, says he was facing a man who was trying to destroy the business he loves, and he could not chance losing to Brock Lesnar. Triple H suspends him indefinitely and the decision from last night is reversed. From there, you have Brock Lesnar tear apart everything put in front of him, until the roster, the fans, and even Johnny Ace are begging for Cena's reinstatement to "save" the company. After a particularly heinous attack, Triple H reinstates Cena, but only under the provision that he must be drug-tested WEEKLY before his fight with Lesnar.
From there, you either go Rocky 3 (Cena falls to Lesnar, but builds himself back up, learns from his mistakes, and sees the holes Brock leaves and exploits them to get the victory), or you go straight to Cena getting the win by sheer force of will, proving that the drugs weren't needed, that he had it in himself to do it all along, and all he needed to do was believe in himself (and all the Cenamaniacs, brother!).
As it stands now, even if Brock decimates Cena tonight, he's just a chickenshit heel who has to jump someone to get the upper-hand, and chokes when put into big match situations. Cena testing positive gives Brock a reason he can point to why he lost, and puts doubt in the minds of the fans on whether Cena could have done it without the PEDs. Since Cena will be off TV, WWE won't get any flack for Cena "using", though Cena might get some minor backlash. That's easy enough to rectify with the right booking.With all of that said, it'll never happen. It's too risky and risque for WWEPG, so I expect the "Hogan gets beaten down, only to come back months later to re-vanquish the beast he already vanquished, but this time ALL THE WAY, BROTHER!" storyline. Which isn't going to help anybody in the long run.
Yeah, I mean, what does it say about Lesnar that, after all the punishment he put Cena through and still couldn't beat him, that he lost to like three moves. Ooooo, a chain to a face. Shane McFrakkinMahon when he fought Kurt Angle got dropped on his head twice and put through windows twice and STILL kicked out. Jericho took a flying elbow through the announce table and still kicked out. Punk took a CODEBREAKER with a CHAIR to the FACE and still kicked out.
ReplyDeleteIt's in danger of destroying Sheamus, however.
ReplyDeleteHere's a good wrestling example for you: what if,Chris Benoit had just chucked Big Show out of the ring when he won his Royal Rumble? Yeah, it would've drawn a pop, but it wouldn't have been nearly as effective as Big Show dominating everyone, fighting off SIX people until it's just him and Benoit, and only then does Benoit eek out a choke-out to put Big Show out.
ReplyDeleteThe "Cena perfecting his craft" line doesn't really work because he's the same Cena he's always been. If anything Brock was the one perfecting his craft. It's almost the same thing as the Albert/Tensai gimmick: Brock went elsewhere, perfected his craft and came back to become a dominant force.Even if Brock lost the first match Cena should have been carted off on a stretcher after what Brock did to him...NOT smiling and playing to the camera.
ReplyDeleteThis is results-oriented thinking. Even IF they find a way to use Lesnar effectively after this, this decision is still a net negative since it's cost them TONS of marquee matches and character development.
ReplyDeleteBret Hart put it succinctly: pro wrestling is about PRETENDING to hurt your opponent, not ACTUALLY hurting your opponent. There's a reason people bought a freaking leg drop as a MDK move.
ReplyDeleteGetting accidentally trapped in a submission hold due to rookieness is a far cry from a field where Lesnar has ALREADY been champion 3 times, and besides, losing to an AA in a street fight simply isn't comparable. That's not losing by a fluke, that's just losing. Foley's wins over the Rock were flukes. Hell Undertaker's kicked out of sledgehammers to the face and multiple finishers, and Brock goes down to one chain punch and one AA? Not impressed.
ReplyDeleteCena is not the same Cena he has always been.
ReplyDeleteHe is not "The Prototype" John Cena nor is he "Doctor of Thuganomics" John Cena. He is "Rise Above Hate" John Cena.
This Cena can laugh after a lengthy beatdown and squeaking out a win because he rises above the hate. Neither of the previous incarnations could do that. Neither could also beat Brock Lesnar. This John Cena did it.
I get that 90% of you guys on here hate Cena because he's the same, but that's what makes him so great. He's unwavering. He's the fucking Captain America of WWE and you guys hate Captain America.
After last Monday's pep talk from Edge and Brock's ridiculous demands I was pretty sure Cena would win. I would be perfectly fine with the Extreme Rules match if Cena simply won with a flukey rollup. Cena surviving the onslaught and getting lucky fits the storyline of the match much better.
ReplyDeleteI just don't get the booking, unless it's just some petty attempt to say 'WWE is tougher than UFC.'
I actually thought he pulled the off the top rope leg drop out for occasions like this. But I'd always thought the Kryptonite Krunch would have been a good move for Cena.
ReplyDeleteHow many times would Lesnar have won, anyway? It's not like he was going to beat everyone on the roster, they didn't have him for that many matches. The best plan would've seen him beat Cena, Punk, Orton, possibly Sheamus, maybe the Rock, and then losing to Cena, Rock, or Punk (I think having Punk do it would've actually been best since Cena and Rock are already household names, whereas Punk could actually use the rub.). That's, what, four or five wins? When he's not wrestling every Monday, that's not really that big a deal.
ReplyDeleteIt's not the beginning, it's the middle. The score is 1-1. There is a rubber match to come up down the line. Not every feud has to be within the same year. They can actually happen over many years.
ReplyDelete*burns $100 inside of a plastic trash can*
ReplyDeleteThey shouldn't have to bring it up. It's a part of their canon and if you refuse to acknowledge it, it's your own fault for sweeping the past under the rug.
WWE doesn't retcon shit, you just have to be able to remember it if you want some of their stories to make sense.
This story makes perfect sense in the continuity of WWE.
It seems like that's what the people defending this think is going to salvage this debacle. It's incredible. It's BROCK LESNAR, former WWE and UFC HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION, a man who does not need to be making excuses for anything. Not all heels are created equal.
ReplyDeleteAnything is better then Cena/Orton/Kane and the rest. If the main guys go away fro awhile it gives others (Drew/Kidd/Dolph) a chance to shine. Not that it matters, everyone jobs to SuperCena.
ReplyDeleteJesus skydivin' CHRIST...Are you on the booking committee??
ReplyDeleteWin or lose, Brock should have walked out on his own power, while Cena should have gotten laid out. No smiles. No speeches, no NOTHING. Sell that ass-kicking like DEATH. THis is the inherent problem with Cena. At the end of a match. nothing phases him. It's like beating up an action figure. I can rip the arm off of one and the same goofy look will be there.
And you're just another victim.
ReplyDelete...ah. I thought Superboy because he so desprately wants people to take him seriously but no one sees him as anything but a Superman wanna-be. But yours works too.
ReplyDeleteExcept everything.
ReplyDeleteAnd here I thought you meant you'd love to see Santino every week, but Miz? Really? (forgive catchphrase theft :-) )
ReplyDeleteDrew McIntyre?
ReplyDelete@ buckdiddy - How is he NOT the same Cena. Same shirts hats and jorts...same chain. NOTHING has changed.
ReplyDeleteI suggested this in another thread, but they could undo most (though not all) of the damage by invoking a Dusty Finish tonight. Laurinaitis comes out tonight for the main event interview and reverses the decision, because Cena pinned Brock on top of the steps, and not the mat. He can even have Eve read out of the rule book. Then he demands that the match restart immediately. Cena comes hobbling out, looking like he was in car crash, and Brock comes out looking none the worse for wear. Brock reopens Cena's cut, slaughters him in squash, and taps him to the Kimura in the middle of the ring, kayfabe injuring him. Brock hangs onto the Kimura after the bell, and the locker room empties to pull him off Cena, HHH among them. In the melee, while they're stretchering out Cena, Brock F5's HHH to kick off their feud.
ReplyDeleteThat's not a bad move..
ReplyDeleteI've always enjoyed Miz. He's different and has a lot of natural charisma. He also seems to be one of the only guys that knows how to do catchphrases anymore. I'm a fan.
ReplyDeleteCena was beaten at Wrestlemania. And just a couple weeks ago by Lord Tensai.
ReplyDeleteI doubt that yet another loss would have finally appeased the haters, no matter what the circumstances.
Because he hasn't always worn t-shirts. He had throwback jerseys. And before that he had ruthless aggression and tights and before that he had tights and a cyborg gimmick.
ReplyDelete"... I was pretty sure Cena would win."
ReplyDeleteThen why didn't you tell the rest of us?
*knocks over TV tray*
WHY'D YOU KEEP IT TO YOURSELF?!?
I'm not defending the finish (well, I *am*, just not in the above post).
ReplyDeleteI'm saying if Brock's run is deemed 'successful' by the majority of the IWC, then the negative reaction and controversy re: this finish will fade over time.
If the Red Sox win Game 7 in '86, Bill Buckner's error in Game 6 isn't as iconic.
@buckdiddy Wrong. Captain America is awesome. John Cena is a pandering tool that screams "everyone please like me".
ReplyDeleteI have never heard John Cena ever scream that. I have heard him scream positive role model encouragement like, "Never give up!" and "Rise above hate!"
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter what you want to say, John Cena is Captain America. He is steadfast in his beliefs, willing to do what it takes to keep those beliefs intact, and fight with honor and dignity.
It seems most people on here want to see Brock dominate through the rest of the year, only to have 1 guy (probably one of Cena, Rock, Taker, or Punk) slay the dragon at next year's Mania. If that's not you, fine, but you have to see that the majority of people on this blog are posting something like that as their basic premise.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, if I was Vince I don't think I'd be comfortable letting a guy go 10 months (or even 6 until Survivor Series) dominating my top guys when he's a notorious flake like Lesnar. I've said it a few times, I think they *want* to tell the story the majority of us are asking for, but this is their way of hedging their bets in the event of a worst case scenario (Brock gets fed up and walks out). I'm not even sure they trust giving Brock the title considering how bad they'll look if he leaves as champ.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying this isn't the black and white, cut and dry scenario, no brainer situation people are painting it as.
Tonight, Tensai squashes Brock and then Tensai spends the next few months tearing through the WWE roster until Cena comes back to slay the unstoppable monster.
ReplyDeleteIf they want Lesnar to be a heel that would be the way to do it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they don't want Lesnar as a heel...
I understand personal favorites, and the point about charisma is a valid one. But I don't see how he's any different than just about every "cocky heel" WWE has ever had.
ReplyDeleteHaha, nah, I was just joking. They could always go with John Henry Irons and make him a guy who's watched and admired Cena for years. lol
ReplyDeleteI....I like this.
ReplyDeleteI still see Brock as a monster. One loss, after taking a shot with a chain, doesn't change that for me. Perhaps I'm the only one (cue a "yes you are" post with about 50 "likes") but that's just how I see it. I'm still looking forward to seeing where this heads and I definitely don't see it killed dead yet.
ReplyDeleteBut that's just me.
Anything bad happening to Bryan gets people behind him. From my count, I have him getting fired for choking a guy and losing in 18 seconds at Wrestlemania. Both times have pissed me off, and Bryan seems to get more popular because of it. I think it's because he's such a swell guy.
ReplyDeleteNo he didn't, the ref stopped the match because Jeff Hardy couldn't continue.
ReplyDeleteOther than wrestling, HHH, because he worked at Wendy's, is also allowed to criticize their service. However, he knows not to complain about his food from anywhere else because he's never worked at those places.
ReplyDeletebuckdiddy You can't possibly say that the series is 1-1. WWE has not brought up their match from 9 years ago even once outside of their website.
ReplyDeleteJust like how Biker Taker doesn't exist anymore, and they didn't bring up the first Taker/Triple H match until after the match at 27 happened.
I didn't realize a smart mark blog was an inappropriate venue to talk about the relative effectiveness of one move or another. I'll gladly refer to your argument the next time one of those stupid "high spots are too fake for me to like" arguments comes up.
ReplyDeleteGanso bomb was just the first move that came to my head, I dunno. Really it could be anything. I just think it wouldn't hurt to have a go-to devastating move for when they've already gone through the typical "kick out of finishers" spots. Kinda like how when Taker was mostly finishing with the Last Ride, or later when he was using Hells Gate, but in big matches he'd bring out the Tombstone as a last resort.
You're right, and the worst thing is, Cena's mostly healthy, lives a clean lifestyle, and is still in his early 30s. Feasibly we could see Cena stick around for another 10 years or more, and yet there is absolutely NOTHING left for him to do as a main eventer that doesn't involve him putting over everybody he faces in such a way as to make them look good, a la Michaels. And Cena, while he's good, he isn't as good at making people look good as Michaels. So basically Cena has nowhere to go but to stay the same.
ReplyDeleteI find it funny that chubby, ugly, smarky indie darling Kevin Steen can hit the F5 and finish the match every time but Lesnar's got kicked out of. Score one for ROH!
ReplyDeletePunk's had the idea on Colt Cabana's podcast that they should do a WWE remake of Cannonball Run. Have everyone play themselves, and you can film it on the road at each location they do Raw at. It'd be cheesy but I'd watch it.
ReplyDeleteAnd seriously, they're talking JTG for the role? They took a gamble having Dibiase Jr. in it, but I'd imagine that if they stuck JTG in there, most people wouldn't think there were any wrestlers in it. Which might be the point.
Ironically, it's Brock who caused this kind of booking by leaving them high and dry in the first place. They've booked almost everyone since in a 50/50 manner.
ReplyDeleteIt seems Vince would rather cut off his nose to spite his face than to risk being made a fool of. In which case, why bring Lesnar back in the first place? Unless you do it right, and are willing to play the long game, why bother?
hahaha. awesome!
ReplyDeleteat this point Ziggler would even have to job to an actual laundry list.
ReplyDelete"He main events over both world titles in a who's the face of the WWE match."
ReplyDeleteand? that happened to Cena, too.
I was just putting myself in the place of the kids. That's all. I just think there's more than one way to look at things.
ReplyDeleteLol. That'd be awesome. Complete with a more subdued version My Time is Now tribute and locker closing shut.
ReplyDeleteSo was this just Vince's vengeance? Because he just pissed away 5 mil. Brock should not have lost until Wrestlemania when a returning Cena comes back as the hero (because he always will be) and redeems himself and the wwe.
ReplyDeleteAnd kicking out of the F5? Seriously? What a waste.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying there's more than one way to look at things, and there's a lot of things we aren't considering. I firmly agree that Lesnar winning would follow an easier logic, but that doesn't mean I'm not intrigued by what's going to happen next. And for a love-matic grandpa, you should consider the kids, they are the future after all (tongue-in-cheek).
ReplyDeleteBut he is NOT allowed to hate on ANYONE for voicing their displeasure for anything that he does.
ReplyDeleteI may not like Wendy's, but if I tell them I don't like their food they won't call me an asshole.
He kicked out of the F-5 after the first ref was knocked out, correct?
ReplyDeleteand I can almost guarantee Dana White doesn't give 2 shits.
ReplyDeleteAre you paid by the WWE to convince us to like John Cena?
ReplyDeleteThat sounds fucking terrible.
ReplyDeleteThis is also a terrible idea.
ReplyDeleteYes, they have sent me to a wrestling blog that looks like it was designed by third world fourth graders to protect the name of John Cena. RISE ABOVE HATE!
ReplyDeleteMar Solo
ReplyDeleteBut they do exist. Are you guys twelve years old? They shouldn't have to bring it up.
Did they bring up Shawn Michaels v. Ric Flair from '92? No, because they shouldn't have to. A fan that has been watching for years should be aware of these matches and apply it to the storyline.
The WWE shouldn't have to retell history for you. It's your fault for ignoring the history and complaining when they don't cater to your lazy fandom.
A true wrestling fan knows the history and applies it to any long running feud.
"Are you guys twelve years old?"
ReplyDeleteNo, but the audience that they currently cater to is.
WWE ignores their own history or even rewrites it to suit their own needs. For instance, John Cena never quits, Ever. He has never tapped out. But, according to your logic, John Cena tapped out at No Mercy 2003 to Kurt Angle, and I'm almost positive to Chris Benoit at one point.
But WWE says John Cena has not once ever tapped out. Same with the Undertaker, despite tapping out to Kurt Angle as well.
Why should we acknowledge history when WWE rewrites it to suit their needs?
Lawyered.