Hey Scott couple of quick questions,
1) Do you think, and please don't laugh, that the Wellness Policy is legit now? I think so if only for the wrong reasons. It wouldn't be good for future Senator Linda McMahon (chuckle) and for a TV-PG company to have it come out that they have been giving certain guys a pass in order to keep them on the active roster and save themselves from embarrassment. Also, after the Benoit tragedy, the government was looking at the WWE for more than drug abuse, namely the whole "independent contractor" status of the wrestlers. I would think Vince would do everything to make sure the government doesn't want to look closely at his company.
2) On a related note, do you think TNA makes them nervous in terms of their non-existent, look the other way drug policy? I mean if one of their guys drops dead, fairly or not, WWE may find themselves under the gun. What if it's Angle or Jeff Hardy, two men who became famous in the WWE and (maybe) found their demons there?
3) On an unrelated note, I recently watched the Owen-Yokozuna vs. The Smoking Gunns match from WrestleMania XI. When Owen gets the pin, the crowd pops big time. I wasn't watching at the time, so I don't know if it was, a trend where Owen got cheers despite being a heel because of his talent at every show, a northeast crowd (the show was in Connecticut) typically cheering for the guy with the most talent, or the fans just hating the Gunns.
2. I don't think that Vince McMahon has any opinions on TNA one way or the other.
3. It was just a heel crowd that night. Shawn also got cheered over supposed top babyface Diesel.
I think you're a little rough on #1. Have your Triple Hs, John Cenas, or Batistas been suspended? No. But there have been many instances in which a main eventer or somebody in the midst of a giant push got drug tested and suspended. Jeff Hardy was supposed to win Money in the Bank, but a week or something before WrestleMania he failed a test and was suspended. Rey Mysterio -- always a top guy -- was suspended. Mr. Kennedy was supposed to be revealed as VKM's illegitimate son (the storyline was the center of the promotion) and got suspended, forcing them to rewrite the whole thing. John Morrison was ECW World Champion and he got suspended. William Regal was getting the biggest push of his career and was suspended.
ReplyDeleteThere have been enough top level suspensions, or suspensions that have forced them to do significant rewrites, that I don't think the policy is laughable. I think a lot of fans have just been so conditioned to think every big guy HAS to be on steroids that they refuse to believe that somebody like John Cena -- who seems very well conditioned and a workout machine -- could achieve such a body without any illegal enhancers.
I was at WrestleMania 11. I was 13 years old. I booed the heck out of the Smoking Gunns. And Diesel. It was a big-time heel crowd because the faces were so lame in 1995.
ReplyDeleteIf Angle or Hardy dropped dead, the WWE would be able to spout off all their PR bullsht and say how they didn't die working for them.
People claiming the wellness policy is obviously fake is a pet peeve of mine. WWE has no say who gets tested. The tests are done at random so that each superstar is tested at least 4 times a year, and Aegis Sciences carries out the schedule and the testing. The company has been around for 20+ years and works for numerous high schools and colleges and niche sports. No company like that would risk a scandal of that magnitude. The amount of lawsuits they would face would be incredible.
ReplyDeleteWell, if a TNA wrestler like Kurt Angle or Jeff Hardy drops dead, WWE will always have the excuse that they tried to offer them help, but they willingly chose to leave and further abuse drugs and damage their bodies. I'm sure the media will attack WWE anyway, but unlike TNA, they can't say they just ignored the problems. It's been nearly six years now since Angle left and it's kind of remarkable he's lasted this long.
ReplyDeleteYup, clean living and video games. Just like Mason Ryan or RyBack.
ReplyDeleteI think get what you're saying, but I have to comment because I wouldn't use the word "excuse". The WWE would have a legit claim that while under their employment, they tried to enforce their drug policy and send them to rehab only for them to refuse and go work elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteBowtunga looks like he is on roids.
ReplyDeleteIt's the coffee. All the caffeine really revs up the metabolism and gives you bigger muscles. Common mistake, really.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that plenty of guys are fooling the urine cops, not just in the WWE, but also in the NFL, MLB, etc... Hell, I've done it myself, it's pretty easy. Random testing is pretty easy to get around, you just gotta pay someone off to give you the heads-up when your name comes up in the hopper (or however they decide who's up for testing next). Once you know it's going to be your turn there's plenty of options to help you pass. Check out the High Times website, or just ask the guys at your local head shop or GNC-type store. Or just carry clean urine with you everywhere. And there's plenty of steroids and masking agents out there that aren't detectable yet, the cheaters are always one step ahead of the people trying to catch them. THG (aka The Clear) was just a run-of-the-mill steroid with hydrogen gas bubbles passed through the liquid, the very slight change in the chemical composition was enough to cause a false positive. HGH can't be found in urine yet, as far as I know. The only way to be sure a guy is 100% clean is to follow him around 24/7.
ReplyDeleteLance Storm said that the Wellness Policy is real but the limits are set too high for it to be effective.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but what you're expecting is for every single person to get caught for every single offense. That's like saying legal systems aren't legitimate because some people get off scott-free.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the policy is "fake", but people are really naive if they think there some guys who aren't getting around it (Mason Ryan and Ryback have been brought up as examples). Adam Curry's post nailed it, that's what people mean when they laugh or call it a joke.
ReplyDeleteWith these guys' schedule, and amount of travel, PR, matches, etc they're the perfect candidates to use steroids/PEDs.
Don't they have drug testing in the Tour de France? Does ANYONE believe in a sport rife with cheaters that the guy who dominated for almost a decade was clean? But he's never failed a drug test.
He may LOOK like it, but I'd bet my life he's never done them. The man has too much to lose. How could he possibly satisfy J-Hud with shrunken balls and ED. And I'm pretty sure that woman doesn't tolerate bacne.
ReplyDeleteI think people just genuinely liked Owen, despite being a heel and he had the potential of getting over as a superface, but the timing was never right. Other times I remember Owen being cheered was when he first won the IC title from Rocky and at One Night Only UK PPV, the fans were *really* into him and it was weird because that same crowd booed Bret Hart, so it wasn't like UK was partial to the whole Hart Foundation like in Canada.
ReplyDeleteThe Wellness Policy doesn't exist to actually catch people, it exists to give Vince a way to tell the media to go away when a wrestler goes on a rampage every few years. I don't doubt that the testing company is legit, but I'm sure there are leaks on the WWE side.
ReplyDeletePersonally I say 'roid up as much as you want. All professional athletes should be in the best shape they can be so they can be as entertaining as possible.
It's never really been the 'roids that have been killing people (or the utterly harmless synthetic weed for that matter) it's been the cocaine and pain killers.
To me it's as simple as, I grew up with older brothers.
ReplyDeleteMany a day I dreamed of kicking out my brothers leg from under his leg.
But he was always too big.
so you're essentially claiming that from Michael Jordan to Steffi Graf everyone who stays on top must be using enhancers?
ReplyDeleteYou know, I have to wonder if a top guy like Cena or Triple H failed a Wellness test right before Wrestlemania, they'd somehow find a way to overturn their suspension on a "technicality", much like the recent business with Ryan Braun.
ReplyDeleteYou'd be surprised how cumbersome two testicles can be when riding a bike.
ReplyDeleteI always say this in regards to Cena; look at him in 2004 - 2005, then look at him now. Huge difference. Similar, but not as fast, as Eddie was in 2004, compared to how he looked in 2005 before he died.
ReplyDeleteIf they compete in a sport where PED use is rampant, then yes. I know cycling is a very dirty sport, I don't know enough about tennis. As for basketball, the current guy most closely related to MJ just underwent an innovative procedure that involves drawing blood, isolating the right platelets and "growth factors" (I'm not a doctor) and then injecting it into the injured area to speed up recovery time. It's not illegal, but elite athletes are always looking for an edge. I'm not sure what the policy is in the NBA, or if using traditional steroids would truly be beneficial, but if they are, you can bet there are guys using them. I don't think there is anywhere close to the drug culture in cycling and other Olympic sports.
ReplyDeleteIn conclusion, if you think Lance Armstrong is clean you're a fool.
I think the cheers for Owen the night he beat Rocky were due more to the fact that "Rocky sucks."
ReplyDeleteIf I remember correctly... on Randy's second violation he was still on TV for the whole thing... just unpaid. The policy was rewritten for such an occasion.
ReplyDeletePEDs in American pro sports is a totally media-driven issue., specifically the baseball media. Fans don't care. The only people who do are a bunch of old white guys (baseball writers and Congress) and their sons who revere the #s and records in baseball as holy and don't want to see them sullied. And the writers want to get back at guys they're jealous of and who were jerks to them (Bonds, Clemens). That's why a good 'ol boy like Ryan Braun wasn't eviscerated like those guys despite getting off on a technicality (he should have escaped punishment, don't get me wrong, but those hypocrites would've killed Bonds/Clemens anyway).
ReplyDeleteI *think* it was rewritten again to prevent that....because they got a lot of flak from the doctors/company administering the tests ("I've never seen somebody get suspended but keep working") and it was viewed upon poorly. Hence why, since then, people have been taken off TV despite being in the midst of or in line for a big push.
ReplyDeleteIf they REALLY wanted to catch all (or 99%) of the guys using they could. Wrestlers aren't unionized, they (WWE) can implement all the draconian and invasive testing procedures they want, but they choose not to. I'm not saying they should, personally I don't really care if wrestlers use steroids, but if there ever was an organization that could catch everybody, it's the WWE.
ReplyDeleteReally? I actually think Cena has been incredibly consistent as far as his size. This is a video of him in 2004. Doesn't seem that different than how he looks now. Certainly not to a drastic level.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBEm6m-Z14&feature=fvst
Scott Steiner used to claim it was 18 hours a day in the gym during his NWO
ReplyDeleteTotally agree on all points. No one gave a fuck about steroids until guys that were obviously juiced started smashing long-standing records.
ReplyDeletePersonally I love Bonds just for being SO in-your-face about it, like "I don't give a FUUUUUCK what you fans think, I don't play this game to be second best."
And frankly, baseball is downright boring. (I LOOOOVE baseball but all of the criticisms about it are true, I can admit) That sport is not going to survive another decade or two without drawing new people to it, and the only way new people come to baseball is through LOTS of home runs.
See, I love baseball, and feel hockey is the boring sport. The only exciting part of the game is when the players fight, and even that is completely contrived.
ReplyDeleteJust out of curiosity, have you ever gone to a hockey game and watched it live? I thought hockey was awful until I started going to Seattle Thunderbirds games.
ReplyDeleteIt turns out TV Hockey is fucking horrible, but live hockey is AMAZING.
What I find interesting is that wrestlers get TONS of scrutiny and shit over steroid use... yet almost every actor in Hollywood uses HGH up the wazoo to prepare for "Big muscular guy" roles. Sylvester Stallone was as roided up as any wrestler in WWF/E HISTORY for the last Rambo & Rocky movies. The guys who played Captain America & Thor were JUST as bad. Where's all the criticism coming THEIR way, due to "unfairness" or whatever? Just like WWE guys, they're using it for "The Look". So why are people not screaming at them for a Wellness Policy? Because they stop as soon as they're not shooting a film?
ReplyDeleteI do recall them modifying it so that they would be suspended but still be on television. It was either due to multiple people failing a drug test prior to a Smackdown pay per view or when everyone got busted in the summer of 2007. Not sure which one but they did attempt that at one point because suspensions were throwing off storylines.
ReplyDeleteThat was easy.
ReplyDeleteWasn't their a report that Batista failed a test a couple of years ago? When he got this sudden and mysterious arm injury that was healed 30 days later?
ReplyDeleteI don't know that much about bodybuilding (or much at all) but I'd think that if a guy build his body naturally over several years he wouldn't shrink as suddenly as he has.
Same rule applies to auto racing.
ReplyDeleteOne possible way for WWE to get around the testing: Not including certain wrestlers on the list of people to be tested.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that the the company DOES do that, just that it'd be a very simple way to "beat the system". You don't Batista failing any drug-tests? Don't include him on the list of people you want randomly tested.
True, but there's a difference between the level that Trips, Cena, and Batista were at and the level that Jeff, Rey, Kennedy, Morrison, and Regal - the latter may have been closer to the top than the bottom, but they weren't on that "absolute top, center of the promotion" level that Trips, Cena, and Batista were.
ReplyDeleteAlthough, this may sound odd, but I absolutely 100% believe that Cena is clean. I just think the guy truly does have the most freakish work-ethic ever. He also hasn't had the ridiculous amount of muscle-tears that Trips, Batista, Rey, Angle, or even Vince have had - he had ONE tear, that's it. He also comes back from injuries far ahead of schedule, and has never shown any signs (outwardly, at least) that he may have come back TOO early and is less than 100%, no re-injuries, no slow-down in his game, nothing. He's a machine.
Definitely. There are some JACKED "Starbucks" baristas out there.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about "never", but I agree, he seems to have too much to lose - it's not like some guys who put all their eggs in the "become a famous pro-wrestler" basket, he's a successful lawyer and hooked to a huge celebrity. If wrestling didn't work out for him, it's not like he'll go back to working at "Target" or whatever.
ReplyDeleteThen again, it's also entirely possible that he really DOES want to be a famous pro-wrestler more than anything, it's his life-long dream, money be damned; I don't know the guy, maybe he is every bit the life-long wrestling fan that many of us are. It's also entirely possible that, high IQ and fancy education aside, his judgment and/or ego are out of whack enough that he'd believe he could get away with it. There are plenty of smart people that do dumb things.
Uhh... so in conclusion, I have no idea one way or the other.
I agree on both points. But as strange as it may sound, losing, say, Kennedy just as they were about to kick off the biggest angle of the promotion probably hurt them more than losing Batista, when Smackdown during that time had Undertaker full time, Edge, Mysterio, and a bunch of others that could carry the brand.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree with you that there's no reason to believe that Cena isn't clean. Honestly, I do think that wrestling fans have been conditioned to believe that if you're huge, you're on steroids. Is it true most of the time? Probably. But I personally know people who can achieve that sort of body without being on anything. Like you said, the guy's a machine. I think at least some people turned the corner on him when he went an hour against HBK and wasn't even sweating. He's a machine. And even angry former workers there who don't seem to have a lot of nice things to say about him as a performer never accuse him of being on steroids.
See the thing is, steroids are good for gains, but they aren't a maintenance drug. Guys like Cena & HHH have most definitely gassed before, and I'm sure they have when making comebacks from injuries or whatever, but in general the main times anyone is on steroids is when they're making their big gains. After that, a regular focused workout routine & extreme diet strictness and supplements can keep you about where you're at. Cena and HHH have both had 10-20 lbs. more of muscles on them at different times in their careers, and they were both less mobile and clumsier during those times. So I tend to believe that they aren't on the roids continually. But they definitely have used them before.
ReplyDeleteI've been to a bunch of live games, it's still boring. And hockey fighting is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
ReplyDeleteOf course Lance is dirty, how much do you think he sweats during one of those races?
ReplyDeleteOwen Hart jumping for joy with the Tag Titles should be one of those iconic WrestleMania images. Always brings a smile to my face seeing how ecstatic he was to win his first WWF title.
ReplyDelete"They all just go back to the hotel rooms and play video games after the shows, you know. "
ReplyDeleteI know Kane does. Did you now he modded a Civil War FPS he played so his avatar would don the Kane costume?
I think the questionable part is that main eventers rarely if ever have gotten hit for a wellness violation aside from the ESPN story where Booker, Orton, Kennedy, Edge, and a few others got busted. Rey and Jeff Hardy are probably the closest to main event talent to get busted, but both were pretty much relegated to midcard roles during their suspensions.
ReplyDeleteI think people would believe in the policy more if main eventers with action figure bodies like HHH, Batista, or Cena were ever busted.
Haha...ok, fair enough. I just figured if you hadn't tried it once you should give it at least one shot.
ReplyDeleteTo each his own though =)
Well, some of it (and I truly hate Clemens so this is completely biased) is that Clemens career pretty much should have been done when he went to Toronto. He was a very good pitcher up to that point (if you ignore slacking through his big contract in Boston) but became great because of the extra decade he had after that.
ReplyDeleteThe policy dictates that it checks for testosterone/epitestosterone ratios and traces of all of the banned substances. Piss must be taken in front of a physician and they check a combination of hair, saliva blood and/or urine. If caught doing anything to try and compromise a test, they fail on the spot. WWE has their pick of thousands of bodybuilders and ex-professional atheletes to hire and train up how they like them. Of course there's going to be massive genetic freaks out there who build muscle easily.
ReplyDeleteWell, there's currently no test for HGH which is more effective and less dangerous than anabolic steroids (with the added side effect of NOT shrinking your nuts). Plus people leave out the fact that steroids don't make you big, they give you the ability to work your ass off to GET big as well as healing faster.
ReplyDeleteTruthfully, I think Vince was a little relieved that steroids was the focus of the Benoit tragedy. If people had focused on the fact that TBI had caused Benoit to snap then Vince would have had to do a lot more and sacrifice a lot more than he did with the Wellness Policy
As a side note, I think steroids shouldn't be banned. Roided guys look more like actual wrestlers rather than the 'atheletic high school jock look' everyone seems to have now, and they're harming nobody but themselves.
ReplyDeleteMy argument there is that they probably are main eventers *because* of their ability to look big without roids.
ReplyDeleteOrton's had 2 strikes already, R-Truth tested positive days before his main event with The Rock and John Cena, Evan Bourne was meant to be the cornerstone of a newly rejuvinated tag scene. If they could protect people they would protect them too.
And once again I must reiterate that WWE has no say in who gets picked. The policy Aegis has to follow is that each WWE Talent is picked at least 4 times a year and tested with urine, blood, hair and/or saliva. The only outs would be if the person isn't classed as WWE Talent (Perhaps HHH could get away with that one) or has a valid prescription from a certified doctor (I believe the ESPN story was about a doctor who was giving out prescriptions like candy? It's been a long time since I read about that)
Clemens had a TON left in the tank when he went to Toronto. He was fat and lazy his last couple years in Boston, felt disrespected and left determined to stick it to the Sox. You gotta be great to win 20+ games with almost 300 Ks and a sub 3 ERA in back to back years (I'm a Jays fan), steroids or no steroids. I'll give you the run he had from 2001-05 though, he was WAY better than he had any right to be.
ReplyDeleteWasn't is all a wash anyways? So many guys were doing something during that time that's it hard to say that was Clemens did, steroids or not, wasn't really impressive. I'm a Sox fan, so you can imagine my dislike for what Clemens did...bastard! lol.
ReplyDeletePhillies/Sox fan (Parents got married in Boston, moved to Phila. I was a Sox fan until after the won in 04 and EVERYONE became a Sox fan. Plus I was living and going to school in Philadelphia and could get tickets cheap to see the Phillies. By '07 I was more upset the Phillies lost than happy that the Sox won the series) but fuck Roger Clemens. Seriously, I discount his entire run with the Yankees (congrats Roger, you won a ring as the 4th starter on a great team, fuck you Rocket) and wished that he'd broken his hand into a million pieces when he got hit with a ball when he had 299 wins.
ReplyDeleteI also believe Clemens' trainer/supplier, Brian McNamee, couldn't get
ReplyDeleteout of his contract with the Blue Jays when Clemens signed with the
Yankees. Clemens then goes on to have a rather mediocre 1999, but once McNamee is able to jump over to the Yanks, his numbers skyrocket again. Hmmm....
Absolutely. Clemens is a no-brainer HOFer (Bonds as well). I don't give a fuck whether Clemens/R.Johnson/Pedro were juicing or not, they were so far ahead of everyone else (in a league full of "cheaters").
ReplyDelete100% agreed. If he was on the juice, he would've been winded in that match, but he was just as energetic as he was at the very beginning of the match! That makes me wonder...maybe part of the reason why he has trouble selling injuries towards the end of the match is because of his high stamina level...he just can't take it because he's really still at 100%.
ReplyDeleteSteroids was the excuse the media heard and gave for why commies won all the medals in the Olympics (I don't miss East German "women," but am impressed they still produced Katarina Witt). The sports media looked SO naive about steroids in baseball. My schoolyard chums and I all believed Oakland's beloved bash brothers were on juice back in the late 80s.
ReplyDeleteWWE should bring Bonds just to cut a promo like that, put him in the celebrity win and than their HOF can claim MLBs all time hit and home run leaders, which Cooperstown probably won't for a while, despite honouring Gaylord Perry and Whitey Ford.
Professional baseball has been around for over 140 years and has never been more popular. It'll bury us all.