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Rock v. Cena is SO two days ago.

Hey, Scott,
I'm a long time reader of your work, and, like you, I was thinking John Cena would likely pin the Rock at Wrestlemania, either cleanly or by shenanigans.    And (possibly like you) I was pleasantly surprised to be wrong about that.  But a lot of people posting online seem to think it was absurd for Rock to beat Cena due to the fact that Cena wrestles full-time while Rock is basically a "guest star."  My take:  Rock is a part-time wrestler, but a full-time entertainer.  From Vince McMahon's pov, the WWE is not just a wrestling company, but a global entertainment company involved in wrestling, movies, reality shows, etc.  To Vince, that probably makes a guy like The Rock a much more valuable entity than Cena.  Rock is successful both inside and outside of wrestling, while Cena is only really valuable within the wrestling circle.  From that standpoint, I can totally see why putting Rock over Cena makes perfect business sense.  But what do you think?  Should Rock have "passed the torch" to Cena to make him a bigger wrestling star, or does it make better sense to have Rock win and preserve his drawing power as an overall entertainment star?

John Cena has been on the top of the promotion for SEVEN YEARS STRAIGHT.  He doesn’t need to have the torch passed to him.  John Cena has already done everything one human being can possibly do in professional wrestling, and the result of the Rock match did not make him a bigger or lesser star one iota either way.  John Cena was already so far above everyone else on the roster that they had to bring BROCK LESNAR out of his cave in Minnesota in order to give him a challenge. 

And another topic relating to this:

The biggest problem about Cena losing to The Rock this time is because- like Hogan/Andre and Rock/Hogan, Cena/Rock isn't really ABOUT John Cena or The Rock- it's about "the current era" vs. "the past era."  During the buildup, the things Rock said about "Cena" himself were noise. The real thing Rock was saying that worked the most was "If you're a Cena fan, you're a little kid or a 42-year-old virgin in your mother's basement." THIS is where the issue comes in for why Cena should have won- the message is, and always was more than "John Cena hates The Rock, The Rock hates John Cena"- it was "Only losers still watch WWE today. If you were COOL, you'd only watch old tapes from the Attitude Era."
THIS is the reason Rock/Cena's result failed- it's the same thing that made WCW fall apart. The nWo took so much power, and said "WCW sucks, if you watch WCW, you're lame" for long enough that eventually, the fans caught on and took the message. And now, with Cena losing to Rock, the message becomes "WWE sucks, if you watch us, you're lame"- only worse because a part-time wrestler is the one saying it, so you can't even watch Raw or Smackdown to see The Rock do his thing if you believe it. And even if Cena wins a subsequent match at Summerslam or next year at Wrestlemania 29, the damage would still be done- compare it to this year's Super Bowl. In 2008, the New York Giants defeated the New England Patriots, and in the process stopped them from having an undefeated record. The same teams played in 2012- but everyone knew, even if the Patriots were to have defeated the Giants- it wouldn't be anywhere near as important as the year that they had lost.

Yeah, but Rock was part of the show for weeks leading up to Wrestlemania.  Was Vince McMahon stealing valuable spots from people on previous Wrestlemanias just because he only worked one match a year, too?  And the current era sucks, that’s why WWE themselves is constantly doing their navel-gazing fond looks back at the Attitude Era and signing former guys.  Because that was the last generation of stars who knew how to DRAW MONEY.  Maybe if Vince would let anyone else but Cena or Orton actually get over, he’s find someone else to carry that mythical torch. 

And WCW did suck, and it was lame.  I don’t see the issue.


  1. Everyone bitches that things were better in the Attitude era, then when the Attitude era faces the current generation and wins, everyone bitches.

    They need to start catering more to the internet, clearly if they do the internet will stop complaining.

    Rock winning just might be the start of the character development you all seem to want, Cena is being forced to show weakness. I think he'll definitely get his win back on Rocky, but if they're smart they'll make that take YEARS.

    The last few weeks of Cena hate have got me wondering, how would the internet have treated Ricky Steamboat?

  2. Wait, but what? How does Rock saying "If you like JOHN CENA you must be a virgin" = "This entire era is garbage!". In what world does everyone who watches the product now like John Cena?

  3. I don't even want to think about that last statement. But to answer your question, I think it's near impossible to please the IWC. Everyone in the IWC like and dislikes many things and in which ways WWE takes angles and everyone is quick to judge without letting said angles breath and give it a chance. The only time I didn't see any remote bitching was during the Summer of Punk and that didn't last long. 

  4. I can't imagine being a wrestler and reading message boards like these.

    People bitch about wanting long term angles and booking, but when the first part of something doesn't go to their exact specifications they say 'fuck this shit, I'm done' and vow to quit watching. Then they're back the next week.

  5. Exactly. I'll admit I use to the same thing, but WWE being so bad in 2009 kind of made me realize this company isn't and probably will never be perfect, so I have to lower my expectations. I'll also say that the more you take part in the IWC and post in message boards, you become more a critic and less of a fan. Wrestlemania this past weekend was probably the first time I watched a PPV not in front of my computer and I had an absolute blast watching the show, for those 4 hours I was a fan. 

  6. You seem to think that the internet is a hive-mind.  The guys who think the Attitude Era is TEH AWESOMEST aren't bitching about Rock winning.

  7. The whole world is "The Internet."

  8. Scenario...Jericho steals the WWE Title from Punk between now and June. Punk loses a rematch. Jericho says I'm done with this and will retire as Champion. Then, July 23rd...the 1000th episode of Raw...Rock returns, challenges Jericho for Summerslam...Rock wins the title. He appears here and there while Punk and Cena maintain the house show business. Lesnar returns in the fall to challenge Rock at Survivor Series. Rock puts Brock over clean as a sheet. Cena feuds with Christian and Ziggler in the meantime...January 2013...Lesnar defeats Punk at the Rumble,..perhaps with some "Stone Cold" help...Cena wins his 2nd Rumble...Wrestlemania at MetLife Stadium-Lesnar defends the WWE Title against John Cena...

    I must confess I doubt we ever see Punk/Austin...Punk v. Bryan is much more likely at WM XXIX.

  9. It is jarring at times the way some fandom can be so extreme.

    I got home from WM and was convinced UT-HHH was a 5* match, tons of people I talked to at the show seemed to agreed.

    I open the WM thread and half the people were shitting on it, lol.  What can you do, everyone's a critic in the day of the internetz.

    At least Scooter vindicated my original thought process with his rant/review.

  10. I don't know, I think people just have different tastes and thoughts about what makes a good match and what doesn't.  Regarding UT/HHH, personally, I was very surprised at the positive reaction to it, I expected more people to think it was boring.

    I suppose that's why they have more than one match a show though -- I didn't really like UT/HHH very much, but I felt like there was plenty of other good things on the show to make it worth my while.

  11. Yeah, I wasn't clear enough, I meant more the faction that complain for the sake of it and it doesn't really happen too often here.  Totally agree on different tastes and the such, shit, I hated last year's match between them and others loved it.

  12. IMO, a lot of the people shitting on the match are letting their prejudices towards HHH and Taker colour their opinion. The match was straight out of the post-2002 HBK playbook, relying more on storytelling, psychology, and superb selling (of both the physical ansd emotional toll). But wheere HBK gets praise, sometimes these 2 are shit on for having a 'slow, plodding, boring' match.

    You had to invest in those 2 (or even 3) characters to really get into the match. I can accept arguing whether it was 'good' or 'great', but to outright say it sucks? You're just not being objective.

  13. He's saying that Cena is the lame figurehead of a lame generation.

  14. While I can understand where having the previous generation's figurehead beating this generation's figurehead could easily be seen as a big deal due to it being akin to the past-his-prime part-timer beating the in-his-prime full-timer, I think that there's an INCREDIBLE opportunity to turn that into a bigger angle:

    Punk could very easily say that Cena is no longer the best on the roster or in his prime, but that he [Punk] is now the best (due to being champion and beating Cena twice last year) and is much more in his prime than the guy who won his first title six years ago. If they make it seem that Cena is on a bit of a down-slope, then it saves the whole situation from looking like this generation can't compete with the previous on, but that Cena shouldn't have been representing this generation in the first place.

    You want to make a new star? Put Punk over Rock at "Summerslam". THAT'S how you shoot Punk to the moon, by having him do what Cena couldn't.

  15. The only reason it got shit on is because the IWC can't stand to give HHH his due diligence and agree it was ***** match. Personally, I thought it was a **** star match, but i'd listen to an arguement of why it should be ***** stars. 

  16. What? I liked the old IWC, at least they could admit to themselves they were the minority.

    This new IWC ACTUALLY thinks they're the target audience, amazing.

  17. Mostly because it is.

    The IWC has spent fifteen years deciding what the future storylines were going to be based on nothing more than their own desires, then bitching about it when it didn't come to pass.

    Nothing is ever good enough, that's why they don't bother listening in the first place.

  18. God you're a tool.

  19. Ever heard of a vocal minority?

  20. And you're still not the audience, so sad for you. Keep bitching though, surely someone will give a fuck sooner or later!

  21. And everyone knows vocal minorities = ratings!

    Oh, or not, actually it's the exact opposite of that...

  22. I actually am the audience because I'm watching every Raw, every SmackDown and every PPV.  I'm not the audience they want but I'm the audience they have.  

    And I like the WWE right now.  I don't agree with everything they do, but I like Rhodes, Punk, Ryder, Sheamus, Bryan and ADR.  The only every week guys on the roster I don't like are Santino, Orton and Show.  They don't need to cater to me because they've already got me.And by the sounds of it you're a shitty parent.  I'm not far removed from high school, and you're exactly the type of father that "raised" my fuck-up peers into the slack-jawed, illiterate, malcontents they are today.  Enjoy underage drinking, theft, a growing disillusionment with society and tens of thousands of dollars of therapy as you desperately try to repair the massive amounts of damage you did to your kids..

    Thank you and have a nice night.

  23. You're in your 20's and know everything?

    No one has ever heard this before!

  24. Damn right I had a rocky relationship with my dad.  I'm not going to run away from it.  I was raised in a single parent home and I turned out comparatively alright when you look at the fuck-ups my peers are.  But you keep shifting this to me.  You shoving your kids in front of a TV is going to work out really well in the long term.

    But I misspoke, the shitty parenting job my peers received was do to clueless fathers and brainless mothers.  I didn't mean to exonerate the awful work their moms did.

  25. Yup. Daddy ran away.

    Poor guy, you can be jealous of my son for having a dad, it's ok.

  26. I had a dad, he was just disappointing.

    And I'm saying you're a shitty parent because you're letting your kids get raised by fictional characters instead of y'know...their father.

  27. Because watching Raw 2 hours a week = raising

    Very good point!

    You're sad.

    Your daddy issues are especially sad.

    Don't be jealous of my kids because they have what you never did.

  28. My childhood was awesome, I had a great mom and two great brothers.  And even at an early age I could distinguish fiction from reality, I thought Batman was a total badass, but I still knew he was a maniac and a terrible moral center.

    I'm sorry that your kids are going to grow up worshiping a wrestler instead of their father.  I hope you can still have a positive relationship with them.

  29. Haha, I love watching you flail. Let's see, I've been right about everything I've guessed about you so far...let's go for another!

    I'm going to guess you were the youngest. Maybe the reason Daddy ran away in the first place? lol

  30. Some people have poor taste in partners, it's kind of a family tradition.  If you think marrying an asshole makes you a bad person you are hopelessly naive.

    And my dad didn't "run out on me" my parents got divorced, which, in case you're completely blind, is actually the norm in this country.

  31. Marrying an asshole just makes you bad at picking people. It's sort of the most important decision you'll ever make. I'm betting dear old mom didn't actually make the decision though, I'm betting it was a result of a surprise pregnancy. (Might as well go with every bad family trope since you meet all the criteria so far)

    So Dad didn't "run out" he just...left the house. Yes, that's MUCH different.

    By the way, you don't get to say "Man I really got under your skin" and then immediately after reply to a post from FIVE DAYS AGO...hahahaha.

    So, the youngest of the family?


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