The SmarK RAW Supershow Rant – 04.09.12
Live from Washington, DC.
Your hosts are Michael Cole & Jerry Lawler
Executive Vice President of Talent Relations and General Manager of RAW and Smackdown Johnny Ace joins us to start, and we immediately get a replay of last week’s Cena-Brock confrontation. The shots of grown men jumping and down and hugging each other in excitement is an awesome sight to behold. Odd how the video now makes it sound like Miami was booing the F5. And now, here comes the pain. Cole actually says the words “Former UFC heavyweight champion” which also is mind-blowing. Brock starts to cut a promo thanking Big Johnny for signing him, but John Cena interrupts. God, I hope they don’t try to have Brock do those stupid scripted promos. Just let him grunt menacingly and lift heavy things. So Cena immediately slaps him (and thankfully Brock isn’t immediately knocked out), and the brawl is on, which triggers a giant locker room emptying to pull them apart. Talking bad, fighting good. Cena has a mouth full of blood in the aftermath and they just want to keep beating each other up. To paraphrase Herb Kunze, this is the pro wrestling of which I am a fan. You know how in UFC/Strikeforce they’ll tease having a big pullapart brawl, and the MMA fans will be all “That’s so low-class and pro wrestling!” Well, when it happens in pro wrestling, it’s AWESOME.
Meanwhile, Big Johnny is perturbed at the start of the show, and doesn’t even have time for Eve.
Brodus Clay & Santino v. Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger
I think the name here is obvious: COBRA-SAURUS! Sounds like a Syfy original movie, actually. Santino tries some mat wrestling with Ziggler and then goes to the armbar, and it’s over to Brodus. He no-sells Swagger’s stuff until Swagger clips him for two. And we take a break. Back with Santino playing face in peril, and you’d think this is the easiest tag team formula not to fuck up, with underdog Santino taking the beating until making the tag to monster Brodus to finish. Ziggler works on Santino with a clothesline and a crossface, but Santino flips out of it and makes the hot tag. Capture suplex for Ziggler and the big splash finishes clean at 7:34. See? Works every time and as long as they can keep finding heels to feed them, they can do this for months. That being said, I don’t really get why Dolph Ziggler gives a shit anymore, since he never wins now and apparently any push is permanently on the backburner. *1/2
Meanwhile, Big Johnny doesn’t have time for Miz either. John Cena and his busted lip are upset that Johnny wants to put him out of business, and he’s so pissed off that he’ll still compete because he’s not a sissy boy actor. That is how you get Cena over again as a babyface.
Meanwhile, Santino is looking for the Three Stooges, but finds Kane instead. Nothing comes of it.
R-Truth v. Cody Rhodes
Truth takes control to start but gets caught and Alabama Slammed, and once again Big Show interrupts. We get the video of Big Show showing the video last week to cause Cody to lose, and once again Cody gets distracted and loses at 2:00. This remains as stupid as it was last week.
Meanwhile, Santino meets the Three Stooges, which is really weird because they’re acting like it’s still the original guys rather than three new actors playing the original guys.
Lord Tensai v. Yoshi Tatsu
Tatsu apparently was IRATE on Twitter, which is like the new cut-in promo for the social media age, I guess. Tensai pounds on Yoshi and gets the headbutts in the corner while the crowd sarcastically chants “Albert” at him. Delayed butterfly suplex and the Baldobomb finish via ref stoppage. Two weeks and he’s still not getting over, which probably isn’t a good sign. Plus we just had the legitimate badass former UFC champion knocking John Cena out, so having Albert supposedly be a badass is kind of a silly followup.
Did You Know that Wrestlemania broke the stadium attendance record even with a fake number? Why not just say 100,000 people while you’re at it? If you’re gonna lie, lie big.
CM Punk joins us to talk about Straight Edge. His private life drove him to become the best in the world, and now along comes Chris Jericho to bring his demons out for the world to see, and that pisses Punk off. Chris Jericho interrupts and says a lot of the same stuff, and Punk won’t be broken. And now he’s gonna take it out on Mark Henry. I kind of feel like they ran out of stuff to say with this feud and it’s just kind of stretching it out to the obligatory rematch now.
WWE title: CM Punk v. Mark Henry
We’re joined in progress after a break with Punk throwing knees, and he grabs a monitor and uses it for the DQ at 0:50. Punk goes to finish him by smashing the monitor on his head, but Jericho’s music stops him and Henry does the smashing instead. WITH HIS BODY. He doesn’t even need a TV, he’s man enough to do it alone. Jericho comes out with a couple of cases of beer and gets into a quick brawl with Punk, and then pours a few cold ones on him with some quality trash talk.
Alberto Del Rio v. Zack Ryder
Ryder is down to “in the ring to my left” level now, as he doesn’t even get an entrance anymore. Del Rio attacks and gets a seated dropkick for two, and pounds him in the corner. Blind charge misses and Zack gets the Broski boot, but the Rough Rider is countered to the armbar at 1:20.
The Three Stooges join us to hype their movie and immediately get booed out of the building. “Curly” comes out as Hulk Hogan and does a decent impression, but the crowd isn’t buying into any of this garbage. Are we supposed to be so stupid that we believe they’re not actors playing roles? Like, Sean Hayes is a pretty famous guy, it’s not like people actually think he’s Larry. Kane interrupts and chokeslams Curly. Well we know Will Sasso is already a big wrestling fan so it’s not surprising he’d be into doing this.
Mark Henry promises that next week, he’ll win the belt from CM Punk.
Brock Lesnar lets us know that he’s not here to make any friends, he’s here to kick ass and punch people in the face.
Video package for HHH v. Undertaker for some reason.
David Otunga v. John Cena
Otunga gets the advantage early and Cena misses a blind charge, allowing Otunga to choke him out on the ropes and drop an elbow. He gets a clothesline and stops for some posing, under the Jesse Ventura precedent of there always being time to pose, and we hit the chinlock. Cena escapes, hits the FIVE MOVES OF DOOM, and finishes with the STF at 5:00. Before he can even smile in celebration, Brock comes out, KICKS HIM IN THE NUTS, and hits another F5. I HEART BROCK. I did not heart this show outside of Brock and Cena.
The Pulse:
So yeah, the opening was awesome, the ending was awesome, everything else in between was kind of shitty. And way to cash in on the Daniel Bryan excitement by not even mentioning him on the show! Maybe they should just stay in Miami from now on.
Ever get that sinking suspicion that epic fail is afoot in the squared circle?
ReplyDeleteIt blows my mind that Punk got so big back in the July after seeing what is happening to guys like Ryder and Bryan. It's like Punk has a force field that deflects creative's stupid ideas and Vince's ego.
ReplyDeleteI'm not one of those guys that think Bryan should win every title and the company should be renamed after him(Obviously that person is Brock) but to not even put him on the show after last week is ridiculous.
Hm, I wonder if it was your feed that cut out Ryder's entrance, we got it here Stateside.
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned in the open thread, Cena really took some stiff ones from Brock. Here comes the pain indeed.
Eh, i'm more of a Marx Brothers guy myself. Decent Raw, though
ReplyDeleteBrock/Cena has been perfect so far. We don't need a convoluted reason for these two dudes to fight. Ace brings in the world breaker Lesnar to kick Cena's ass. Lesnar is happy to do so. End of story. This is simple and awesome. Lesnar absolutely blasted Cena in the 12 Rounds and I think all the males in the room felt bad for him. Lesnar's expression after the low kick was awesome.
ReplyDeleteI'm fine with how Jericho/Punk has played out. I know it's dragging a bit, but I liked what they did at Mania and I'm looking forward to seeing them go at it again with whatever stip they put on them.
Like everyone, surprised there's no Danielson tonight. I'm sure he'll pop up on the live Smackdown though, so that's at least something.
LOVED the opening segment. I enjoyed the build to Rock/Cena, felt it was the right way to go (mostly talk) but was wary of seeing another big match feud play out the same way. Nice to see them get physical right off the bat. Normally I hate Cena's smirking, but coupled with the blood it was awesome, almost like he was saying 'oh, it's on now m'fer'. Also nice to see they're not delaying the match, this feud is in the fast lane and I like it!
ReplyDeleteI also like how they're playing up Brock being a straight up ass kicking mercenary who just wants to crack some skulls and get paid. He's even calling out the fans for loving him even though he's such a prick (how very Kurt Angle of him). Oddly, this makes me love the guy EVEN MORE.
I felt bad for the Stooges. Obviously the studio forced them to do this, and they're just doing their jobs. I think they anticipated a semi-smarky city like DC to boo, so they hoped the Hogan stuff would get the fans on their side. It didn't work, but Sasso's impression was bang on.
So yeah, all the stuff in the middle was meh(ish), but I could give a fuck. Brock/Cena at Extreme Rules? (Bart Scott voice): Can't wait!
The whole time Lawler was fretting over how terrible the stuff Jericho was doing to Punk was, I was waiting for Chris to turn to him and yell "From you, OK! I learned it from watching you!"
ReplyDeleteAnyone else think of that Simpsons episode with Daryl Strawberry during the Tensai match?
ReplyDelete"Alllllbeeeert! Alllllbeeeert!"
Apart from Brock/Cena, pretty 'meh' show.
ReplyDeleteI am beyond sick of all the recaps on Raw, as well as the 'celebrity' appearances. Hugh Jackman is the only recent one which I liked, the rest have all annoyed me. The WWE should learn is DOESN'T NEED TO REPLAY EVERYTHING IMMEDIATELY AFTER IT HAPPENS!
Punk and Jericho continues to be good, although I can feel it losing momentum. Punk beat Jericho, what's he got left to prove? Jericho is doing a wonderful job of being a grade A arsehole though.
Otunga should lay off on the oil...it's really odd to look at his abs...
I'm calling it now; Jericho costs Punk the title to Henry next week in order to transition it to Cena, then Brock!
ReplyDeleteScott, why did you forget about rating matches after the opener?
ReplyDeleteWWE has thing of de-pushing guys who get more over than they want them to be (Ex. Zack Ryder)
ReplyDeleteThat's the greatest drug PSA of all time. 20 something years later, and people still know the thing by heart. I wonder if it's on youtube...
ReplyDeleteThey flew Daniel Bryan out there just to help 40 other guys separate Brock and Cena?
ReplyDeleteI think you're being a little too harsh on Tensai and I think WWE should keep pushing him as it is and eventually the fans will catch on. Sure Brock is the legit badass, but Tensai will be the one working every week and being on houseshows, so keeping Tensai strong would benefit them in the long run.
ReplyDeleteAnd about Tensai not being over. Well, it took forever for Umaga to connect with the fans, and it'll take some time with Tensai too as he tries to erase his former Albert image.
At least he got his shirt on TV. WWE: Kings of self-fulfilling prophecy!
ReplyDeleteI liked how, when Tensai prepared to put the claw on Katsu, Cole was like "What the?", as if he had not seen him do THE EXACT SAME THING LAST WEEK.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure, and I just watched the kid from it yesterday in the movie Adventureland!
ReplyDeleteI like how Albert wasn't over a lick when he WAS Albert and now that he's someone else, crowds are chanting Albert.
ReplyDeletePunk has nothing to prove by beating Jericho. But now...it's PERSONAL!
ReplyDeleteMore so.
Man, fuck the WWE. Even when they do good, they have to mess it up. Brock & Johnny Ace?? Seriously? We can't just have Brock back to be awesome & smash things? We need to shove him in with the awful GM angle?
ReplyDeleteThe 3 Stooges? I don't even need to go into detail.
And WHERE THE HELL IS DANIEL BRYAN?!? When ESPN is running features on a wrestler and giving him crazy mainstream exposure, you put him on TV!
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7782963/daniel-bryan-john-cena-indie-wrestling-taking-center-stage-monday-night-raw
Here's my prediction for Brock and it's the same for any hot angle the WWE has come up in the past few years (NXT, Summer of Punk, Rock's return) - He'll be just another guy in just another angle by June.
Im convinced after last night they are going with Brock/Cena at the next PPV because they don't trust themselves to build it up to SummerSlam and pop a mega-buyrate. They went through like a month of booking in 2 hours.
Week 1 - Cena slaps Brock, Brock punches Cena pull-apart.
Week 2 - Brock kicks Cena in the nuts
Week 3 - Cena calls out Brock - no response
Week 4 - Brock talks for the 1st time.
And since Brock will probably only be on Raw every other weeks, that TWO MONTHS of booking and build they tossed away.
Maybe I'm insane, but Will Sasso does a pretty good Curly.
ReplyDeleteI think he should be moved to Smackdown. You already have Lesnar, Kane, Mark Henry and Brodus Clay as monsters (and they can call Big Show and have him be a monster as required) He's getting lost in the shuffle.
ReplyDeletePlease don't say that too loud. Vince may be listening.
ReplyDeleteWhy do I get this weird feeling that the Three Stooges will surprise everyone and debut as the number 1 movie in America at the weekend box office? I have a funny feeling that film is going to surprise people and make some serious cash.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if it aired differently in Canada, but Zack Ryder had an entrance on the feed I got.
ReplyDeleteBrock busting Cena open: intentional, accidental, or just sloppy?
ReplyDeleteI think I vote for accidental, but accidental in that when he took Cena down instinct took over and he threw a real shot before catching himself.
It's simple - Bryan wasn't on Raw because they can't figure out what to do with him. Last week's crowd gave an unexpected reaction so they freaked. Instead of letting things flesh out on their own, the office will keep him on the back burner until they figure out a pre-determined new direction (and likely kill his heat in the process). WWE fears what they can't control.
ReplyDeleteBut it was his old shirt! It's the new shirt they need to advertise!
ReplyDeleteI won't be surprised one bit if it makes money. All those stupid "parody" movies like Epic Movie made a killing too.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Albert, we now give guys two weeks to get over? Sheesh.
ReplyDeleteI'll tell you this, no matter how bad this faux Stooges turns out to be, it's going to be better than The All New Adventures of Laurel & Hardy in 'For Love or Mummy'.
ReplyDeleteNah. Brock is steamrolling through several people, starting with Cena, before taking the belt from Punk himself at Summerslam (and then destroying the Money in the Bank winner, the first champion to ever do so) Brock will then proceed to destroy everyone else in 30 second UFC squash affairs until Rock's shocking return at the Royal Rumble to win it and earn the title shot against Brock at Wrestlemania (though not before Brock makes five other guys tap in the Chamber)
ReplyDeleteI'm also calling that the Brock/Cena match at Extreme Rules will be a cage match. Just because John Laurinitis wants his new golden boy to feel comfortable.
Last week's crowd was an outlier. Fans last night weren't chanting Daniel Bryan, they were chanting Yes because it is the cool thing to chant. I won't deny Bryan is over with a segment of the crowd but he is over as a heel, which is what he should stay. If he isn't on Smackdown tonight then I would find that odd, but him not being on RAW last night wasn't out of the ordinary. Sheamus and Orton weren't on the show either.
ReplyDeleteDamien Sandow had a dark match against JTG. Liked what I saw out of him, definitely has a Genius vibe to him as far as his character and even his looks with the pink tights. Was getting really good heat, although it was the first match of the night, and there was even a JTG chant.
ReplyDeleteThat's one more than the WWE gives most guys.
ReplyDeleteHe's been really unfortunate to come back at the same time as Lesnar. They need to move him over to Smackdown to give him a chance to get out of that particular shadow.
ReplyDeleteHe also needs to address the whole Albert / A Train thing. They're wisely not trying to pretend he wasn't in the WWE before, but they've not given him any time to explain why he left looking like Sasquatch and has come back as a fat ninja.
Till they've addressed that elephant he hasn't got a hope of getting over in this new role. Imagine if Umaga hadn't started off with Armando. He'd have had the same problems.
Somewhat surprised they didn't explain his new character a bit more this week
I couldn't help but laugh during the pull-apart that MARK HENRY (and six other wrestlers) wasn't strong enough to hold Brock back.
ReplyDeleteMark curled a frying pan with his bare hands once! I saw it on RAW! 8 )
But that's a parody that's supposed to be funny because it's aware of its own stupidity. It's stuff like the new Three Stooges movie that is worse: it's stupid but doesn't realize it. It's not meant to be a parody; it thinks it's funny on its own merit.
ReplyDeleteYet Cena was still grinning like an idiot and making witty remarks to the camera..."How do I look?" He's becoming a parody of himself at this point and it's making him even more unbearable than usual. He was hamming it up at Wrestlemania too...it's like he's completely unfazed no matter what happens to him.
ReplyDeleteBrock could come out and rape Cena's family next week, and Cena would just smile at the top of the ramp and make lube jokes to the cameraman.
Kinda reminds me of WCW.
ReplyDeleteI just think curiosity factor and devoted fans of Three Stooges are what will make it successful for the opening week.
ReplyDelete"Guess my wife needs some vaginal surgery after that! :)"
ReplyDeleteI'm a Washingtonian. I didn't go to the last couple of Raws because the previous two were bad episodes. I paid for a ticket last night on the heels of a good Wrestlemania and a steller Raw last week. After that episode, I don't think I'll pay for the next Verizon Center Raw in December.
ReplyDeleteThere were "Yes!" Chants and signs since people were standing lin line waiting to get into the arena. So of course, Daniel Bryan doesn't appear.
They advertised Punk vs. Henry II at the start of the live Raw telecast. We got a non-match with a quick DQ finish.
The crowd went crazy for Ryder when he came out for his entrance during the commercial break. He was squashed like a jobber. Without his personal ring announcer, Del Rio would get no heat whatesoever.
Another note, the guy who cut the "save you from laziness" promo last week beat JTG in a dark match. The crowd gave him serious heel heat. An excellent debut. That means he'll probably never make TV.
Again, it looks like WWE is trying to tell its fans to shut up and pay money to like who they want us to like. Cena gets booed out of the building again and he's still their #1 face. Cena got the best heel heat all night. Brock gets the returning star face pop and he's paired with the heel GM and is portrayed as a heel. Oh boy, Cena can now overcome the odds again. Get him off my TV and out of the ring at live events.
If WWE wanted to lose me paying money for their next live enent in my city, they succeeded. Where's that 1997-2001 WWF where they at least pretended to listen to their fans when it came to who gets pushed. It's almost like Vince hates his paying fans. Hold on, he does...
Except he was on Raw, as part of the pull-apart brawl. If they're not sure what to do with him, or suspect that last week's reaction was an anomaly, why not put him out there for a quick match - in the guise of him being re-focused after dumping AJ - and just see what reaction he gets?
ReplyDeleteHe's got a groin pull the likes of which you've never seen!
ReplyDeleteActually they are parodies that aren't parodies at all, but exact recreations of scenes from better movies only with worse sets and worse acting. I have no doubt they aren't aware of their own stupidity.
ReplyDeleteIn theory, you are correct. In theory.
No, no, no. You're so wrong.
ReplyDeleteWhat they need to do is combine Weeks 1-4 and do them all in one show. Then, next week, since they can't afford to have Brock show up, they can replay what happened the previous week (preferably on Smackdown as well). Week 3 is devoted to repeating what happened in Week 1 but in a different order, thereby giving the illusion of development whereas in fact they're running on the spot (see Rock/Cena feud for details). In Week 4, you spend huge amounts of money getting Brock to appear at the top of the ramp for a meaningless staredown, having realised how badly you've mistimed your booking and afraid that your ineptitude will result in fewer PPV buys (spoiler alert: it will).
I just can't understand why Brock should be aligned in any way with Johny Ace. It's obvious that they want to position him as a heel, but again, against Cena and in Chicago? HE WON'T BE THE HEEL! Sorry to yell (did you hear me?), but I had to get that off my chest.
ReplyDeleteBrock doesn't need to be associated with anyone, he's a lone wolf/mercenary type, let him do his thing.
But he hasn't really ever been in his career. He ran with Heyman, he ran with Vince, He can still be a bad ass and run with Big Johnny, not really seeing the issue.
ReplyDeleteBecause there is also Smackdown tonight, and they had other stories to tell last night?
ReplyDeleteI live across the street from the Verizon Center. On my way home from work, I heard people on the Metro and by the arena chanting, "YES YES YES!"
ReplyDeleteAround 11:30pm last night as people were leaving, I heard them chanting "YES! YES! YES!"
I mean, is it really rocket science to give the fans what they want? I even saw a couple people wearing the Daniel Bryan shirts...they just got released Friday! Insanity.
If they wanted to make Brock a heel, have him destroy Daniel Bryan during a promo. I'd pay to see Brock vs. Bryan.
Cena wasn't booed out of the building. He got the usual reaction he gets, guys my age, including myself booed him, and kids and girls loved him. Lesnar got a split reaction as well.
ReplyDeleteSandow is definitely making TV.
I live in Canada, and I saw Zack's entrance too. Maybe it wasn't shown on the standard definition feed.
ReplyDeleteAha! You forgot the mention the part where Johnny Ace is inserted into the feud. Now neither of us will make the creative team.
ReplyDeleteDo you really care about my ratings for a bunch of one minute squashes?
ReplyDeletePunk's force field was an expiring contract. He got Vince to pay him like a superstar so now they HAVE to use him like one to make the investment worth it.
ReplyDeleteThat was a long time ago, he became a dude who doesn't need a manager or a mouth piece in the UFC. And, unless you want him to be a heel (doesn't mean the fans will listen), you align him with Ace; but, the ppv will be in Chicago so that's not gonna go so well.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter what the crowd does in Chicago, they have to book it to the rest of the country, not just one show.
ReplyDeleteBrock clearly has to be the heel, especially since this is leading to the awful idea of Brock/Rock.
There are 11 other months he will be there, I don't think they should book him based on one crowd.
ReplyDeleteI admit to being wrong about Ryder, they're definitely burying the shit out of him.
ReplyDeleteI'm consistently surprised that so many people expect their tastes to be catered to from a PG product. Do you get mad at Nick Jr. for not appealing to you as well?
ReplyDeleteIt's a kids show. Lower your expectations.
I'll reply here to you and ChinWins. I agree that they have to book for the year, but here are 2 points against that:
ReplyDelete1. They don't book long term anymore. Rock-Cena was easy because they knew Rock would not be around for 90% of it.
2. Cena is the heel in most of the country, so why align Brock with Ace? He's still going to be cheered in most cities?
If that is your criteria then you could say why has Cena been booked as a face for the last seven years. He has been getting the same reaction, pretty much no matter the opponent for seven years now.
ReplyDeleteThe guy that comes in and makes your entire roster look like pieces of shit HAS TO be a heel.
ReplyDeleteThere's no other way to play it without burying your entire promotion . (oh wait...that's exactly what they're going to do...)
Nevermind. Book him as a face. Who even gives a shit at this point?
Maybe they did for the dark match? We forget that he hardly appeared on the show where the crowd went rabid for him for 2 hours too...
ReplyDeleteHere's the thing about Cena's smiling. Supposedly, he is the face and ostensibly, when attacked by a heel, it's a bad thing... something to be concerned about. Yet, his stupid smile tells the world, "FEAR NOT, this is nothing to be worried about!"
ReplyDeleteIf John Cena is knocked down and bloodied, only to bob back up and start smiling again, it appears as if whatever happened wasn't that big of a deal. Now Cena's character might be played to laugh off even the worst of times, but in doing that, it kills the peril he is supposed to be in and thus, undercuts the angle.
Even forgiving all that, Cena's smirking is heelish. I think the biggest allure of John Cena- even by those that take the time to boo him so vehemently- isn't his attitude or the crap he spews, but the question of will he or won't he turn heel?
Well, yeah, Cena's merch and charitable activities have kept him booked as a face despite being treated like a heel by a vast portion of the audience no matter the city.
ReplyDeleteI took it as exactly the opposite, I took his smile as a way of saying "Haha, look how bad I pissed you off. That's right, I just bitchslapped you."
ReplyDeleteYes, of course he has to be a heel; but your putting him in a program with a guy that's a heel (like it or not) to the majority of the audience. It's bizarro wrestling and I get that but they are the facts.
ReplyDeleteI'm saying, don't book either guy as a face or heel. Treat it like the Rock feud and let the chips fall where they fall. Don't automatically align the dude with the biggest heel in the company, aside from Cena :-)
We need to make special allowances for Chicago and Miami, two crowds that are completely plugged in to who is cool and who isn't. Lesnar is being sold as a mercenary, a soldier of fortune that is being paid well to take out Cena.
ReplyDeleteThe big mistake they could make is scripting his promos. I think Brock proved in UFC that he was more that capable od drawing heat with his own comments.
Also, too many monsters now. Tensai, Clay, Henry, Brock all on RAW? and Ryback over on SD.
ReplyDeleteAlthough, they can all work pretty well for big men, so that's a plus.
His new shirt was on a table when Santino asked the guys at the computers if they'd seen the 3 Stooges. Not exactly at the best advertisement, though.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about him being the biggest heel. I get that the internet wants him to be, but when I watch these shows with people under the age of 10 (the PG audience they're going for) Cena certainly isn't a heel at all.
ReplyDeleteWe all would've hated Hogan in 87 too, it wouldn't have meant he was really the biggest heel. As far as the booing goes, I think that's more people trying to look snarky than any real emotion. Douche bags LOVE booing the faces and cheering the heels, they always have.
Let's face it, we know Brock is going to bury the entire roster. Having him do that AND look like a face leaves them in an even bigger hole than the one they appear to be digging now.
Yeah, for once, I thought the shit eating grin worked perfectly and fit in the context of the angle.
ReplyDeleteI didn't know it was douchey to cheer heels and boo faces, but if that's the case I embrace my douchebaggery!
ReplyDeleteRock's awesome, Brock's awesome. Sounds like a good idea to me.
ReplyDeleteThey're trying so hard to get people to cheer Cena, it's downright pathetic.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry about Bryan. He's over, and Vince knows this. WWE planted "YES!" signs throughout the crowd, so they're aware they have something. I don't think anyone from Smackdown was really on the show this week, so I wouldn't read too much into Bryan being absent. Hell, the World Champion wasn't even there (or Orton, for that matter), so I don't think Bryan not being on the show is a sign they're burying him. I'd be more worried if he was on the show and just getting the Ryder treatment.
ReplyDeleteI'm a little surprised at how many people are down on the Brock stuff.
ReplyDelete1) They're moving too fast and Brock/Cena should be happening at Summerslam.
After the slow build and lack of touching in the Rock/Cena feud I thought people would've been on board for this. Brock hasn't just come back to fight Cena, let's hit the ground running. I want to see him fight Punk, Orton, Taker, Sheamus, etc. He may not fight all of them, but a quick start to the Cena feud opens up more possibilities.
2) He's aligned with Johnny Ace.
I like how they're positioning Brock. He's come in immediately and kicked ass, all with an "I don't give a fuck" smirk on his face. He's a natural heel, and it makes sense for Ace to be behind him. People need to remember that the Brock and Rock situations are different. Brock isn't coming in to JUST work with Cena. He'll (theoretically) work with other top guys, probably babyfaces. Are the Punk marks going to like Brock causing the fans to turn against him (Punk)? Plus, Brock is awesome and there's nothing better than a guy who KNOWS he's awesome and the fans love him, but still acts like a prick and revels in it (ala 2005 Kurt Angle).
3) Cena smirking.
Normally I'm with people on this, but I loved the image of Cena's smirk coupled with the blood. It looked badass, something I can't say about Cena all the time. Plus Brock is such a beast it's hard to imagine Cena being able to hang with him. But after seeing him take Brock's best shot, which caused a LOT of damage (since they never bleed) and come back saying "is that all you got, bitch?", it made me want to see a match between the 2 even more. It was the best pull apart brawl I've seen outside of Tyson/Austin, let's recognize that. It felt REAL, without feeling contrived. And the bloody smirk was responsible for 90% of that.
But that's the thing, as a heel, Brock was always kissing someone's ass.
ReplyDeleteDark match was Sandow vs. JTG, and after show was Cena hitting Ziggler with the AA.
ReplyDeleteA television about grown men in their underwear beating the shit out of each other should not be catered to kids.
ReplyDeleteCena's smirk is annoying when the other guy is being serious, or the other guy has limited credibility (Miz, Truth, etc). Brock had a shit eating grin of his own when Cena came out, and he has all the cred in the world. If anything, John Cena needs to gain some cred to be on the level of Brock Lesnar (since Brock's kayfabe career was just as good if not better than Cena's AND he's a successful shoot fighter). in conclusion, both guys played their role perfectly and there's not a thing I would change about that segment.
ReplyDeleteThis was meant as a response to Greg S.
Shit, you're right. I also lose marks for forgetting to add an unnecessary stipulation to the match.
ReplyDeleteHaha...what? It has been for 30 years with the exception of one five year period in the late 90's (when the kids from the 80's grew up.)
ReplyDeleteWho else would you cater grown men in their underwear PRETENDING to beat the shit out of each other to?
What else would it be?
ReplyDelete"Look at me! I'm different! I do the opposite of what's expected!"
I don't doubt it will be a fun match, I'm just not interested in two full years of guys like Punk/Bryan being treated as a MUCH MUCH MUCH lower tier of star.
ReplyDeleteI want Punk in the main event, and judging by the way things are looking, he won't be until at least May of 2013.
Not many kids shows have half-naked women with fake tities or guys trying to throw alcohol down someone elses throat. They can't have it both ways, this isn't Phineas and Ferb.
ReplyDeleteI was making a joke about Cena, I mean, he is a heel to most of the audience, but yeah, to kids he's a hero; agreed.
ReplyDeleteAnd not all douche bags cheer for heels for the sake of it. Are you saying that the people that turned heel Cena face are douches? Because a whole bunch of kids got behind Cena late in his thuganomics run.
Umm, I beg to differ. Look at the crowds in the arenas. About 2/3 or more of them are over the age of 13. WWE is more like a widely appealing Dan Schneider show on Nickelodeon, not Nick Jr.
ReplyDeleteAnd we're not necessarily talking about our tastes. We're talking about what's in good taste. I've said it before on another post and I'll say it again: Vince has been playing "not to lose" for the last 5-7 years instead of playing "to win." Instead of pushing new guys who can clearly entertain in a variety of ways, they get held back because any shake up of the status quo normally spells short term losses. However, those losses wouldn't last for long because there's a solid group of wrestlers who have been emerging over the last year that are that damn entertaining and that damn good--it'd be impossible not to expand the fanbase. Here's who I am talking about:
-Dolph Ziggler: I'm not so sure there's anything this guy can't do
-Kofi Kingston: Extremely likeable and exciting in the ring
-R-Truth: Just a phenomenal actor in his current character; he's pretty darn good in the ring when given more than 5 minutes to play with
-Zack Ryder: His joy for wrestling and performing are infectious
-Daniel Bryan: Maybe the best wrestler in the world; quick-witted on the mic; has made almost every role he's been in for the last two years very believable
-Cody Rhodes: He clearly "gets it" these days and has become versatile
-Brodus Clay: Agile big man; fun gimmick
-Mark Henry: Ever since June of last year, he's been on fire; has done everything with conviction and just the right personality; now has an excellent grasp on ring psychology as well
-Santino: I don't want to say he's a brilliant comedian, but there are times when he's close
-CM Punk: no explanation necessary
I may not even be a huge fan of some of these guys, but I definitely appreciate what they've done and what they're capable of doing.
All of those Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Pixar movies? All PG stuff, too, and wildly successful for using the right people. We don't want to see Ed Begley Jr as Luke Skywalker or Richard Dreyfuss as Indiana Jones just because they're nice guys. We want to see Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford because they were right for the role and highly entertaining.
But Punk and Bryan ARE a much much much lower tier of star. Not saying they need to go out of their way to advertise it or anything, but Rock and Brock are mainstream legitimate celebrities and WWE should milk that cow until it drops dead.
ReplyDeleteI have always liked heels, even when I was a kid, they are more entertaining than faces.
ReplyDeleteSure they can, ever Pixar movie is full of adult humor that only the parents will understand.
ReplyDeleteThe old Warner Brothers cartoons were the same way.
Little kids don't understand that half-naked women is supposed to be sexually appealing, they're just girls.
He turned face because people liked him, they weren't cheering to spite him.
ReplyDeleteThe way they boo him now.
It's really great because the thing that makes most of the older fans despise him (his refusal to go back on all of his "values" or whatever) is exactly the same reason he's a hero (he refuses to go back on all of his "values" or whatever).
He's a heel already, as you said, most of the audience hates him.
So it's still marketed and designed for children?
ReplyDeleteThat list of names made me sad, since we're going to see all of those people collectively buried this year so that Rock and Brock can look bigger than the entire promotion.
I don't disagree, it's just super fucking depressing, that's all.
ReplyDeleteLONGER VINCE LIVES, MORE STUBBORN VINCE GETS! BROCK HEEL, CENA FACE, RAAAAARRR!!!
ReplyDeleteI feel bad for Tensai. Dude goes and gets legit good in Japan for years and tries to reboot himself and the crowd just shits all over him. They said he was a former competitor, they better announce he was Albert but now he's a different person b/c the crowds are just too smart now to let it fly.
Yes, this a thousand times. Like Piper and JR said.
ReplyDeleteDid you SERIOUSLY just compare Cena's popularity with 1987 HULK HOGAN'S?! Hogan NEVER, EVER had as loud a section of the crowd booing him as Cena. Even when he was a face in WCW, it was never THIS loud and THIS consistent. Much less in 1987. Ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteAs opposed to "Please tell me what to think, WWE! Pretty please!"
ReplyDeleteYeah, those people cheering Austin in 96 and 97 were real dicks.
Again, I believe you're wrong on this. Fans boo Cena because they're tired of his act and he's stale and boring, not out of spite. We're splitting hairs though.
ReplyDeleteHis new shirt was also in the merch booths in the Verizon Center.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's what I was trying to get at in my original post. It's not about my tastes being catered to. It's about making money off of what the whole arena is audibly clamoring for.
ReplyDeleteI won't argue that Rock and Brock are much bigger - both in and out of wrestling - than Punk and Bryan, but what ever happened to using the bigger stars to help turn the lower stars into bigger stars themselves.
ReplyDeleteSure, they could do something like Brock/Rock and Punk/Bryan at next year's WM, but doesn't it make more sense to do something like Brock/Punk and Rock/Bryan? I mean, I'm not necessarily saying it has to specifically be Punk and Bryan, but you can't just keep the glass ceiling in place.
Remember, there was a time when Hogan and Austin - and even Rock and Brock - were seen as being lower-tier. I mean, "The Blue Chipper" Rocky Maivia? He's a boring wrestler, can't cut a promo, and has no charisma at all, he'll NEVER get over!
In that case, couldn't they have the part-time returning stars work a program with Punk and Bryan in order to make them bigger stars?
ReplyDeleteShouldn't there be an attempt to make that not the case? clearly, you do Rock/Brock for cash. Don't you eventually try to get punk/Bryan (or anyone who can use it) a stratosphere push by actually beating one of the part timers? I mean, isn't this the perfect situation for the proverbial rocket to the ass push?
ReplyDeleteWWE planted them? I was in the upper deck so I thought that someone with way too much free time (it's a wrestling show, a lot of the fans fall into that category) just brought a ton of copies down there.
ReplyDeleteI do agree. I thought it was a bit harsh for the rest of the audience to sh*t all over him like that. (I kept quiet and just watched Yoshi Tatsu's good selling.)
ReplyDeleteHe's not a "heel", though - heels are bad people, that do illegal and immoral things. Villains, basically.
ReplyDeleteCena is not a villain. He's pretty clearly the hero of the story, it's just that a lot of people aren't interested in watching this particular hero. That's like saying that Hannibal Lector is the "face" and Clarice Starling is the "heel", just because Lector is more interesting and charismatic.
I was a big fan of "Smallville", and found John Glover's portrayal of "Lionel Luthor" a million times more interesting than Tom Welling's portrayal of "Clark Kent".
You're forgetting that Punk had been part of three white-hot feuds (with Jeff Hardy, Rey Mysterio, and Randy Orton) despite losing his last three feuds (Taker, Rey, and Orton) he remained hugely credible and with promo got himself massively over.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like the WWE likes to "test" guys like that now.
You slap me, I kick you in the wontons, it's the Minneapolis way!
ReplyDeleteI loved Cena's smirking and saw it as DeNiro-as-Jake-LaMotta type arrogance and LOVED IT. I hope Brock no-sells the 5 knuckle shuffle and drops him with the F-5 presented by Jimmy John's
ReplyDeleteThey're professionals mom, this kind of stuff rolls right off their back :Albert sheds a single tear:
ReplyDeleteThere was no internet in 1987 either. And what I ACTUALLY said was "We all would've hated Hogan in 87 too, it wouldn't have meant he was really the biggest heel."
ReplyDeleteSo no, I didn't compare the popularity at all. You're reacting to a statement that was never made.
Big Johnny is a saint!
ReplyDeleteAnd how did they react? Oh right...by having Austin do all the very same stuff he was doing anyway.
ReplyDeleteThe whole internet is abuzz because finally someone like Brock has come along to beat John Cena. PEOPLE ARE PAYING TO SEE JOHN CENA GET BEAT. That makes him a heel, and a damn effective one judging by the reaction he gets from adults.
"We all would've hated Hogan in 87 too, it wouldn't have meant he was really the biggest heel."
ReplyDeleteCena is the biggest heel because most fans in most arenas boo him. It's at least 50-50 in every arena. Hulk Hogan never had that. A group of internet fans hating Hulk Hogan wouldn't have meant a hill of beans compared to EVERY PERSON IN THE ARENA cheering Hogan. That doesn't happen with Cena. Cena has never, ever gotten the kind of reactions 87 Hogan got. If you get boo'd by a majority of the fans, you don't deserve a comparison to Hogan as a face. Would people have boo'd 87 Hogan today? Maybe so, but guess what? That'd make him a heel, too.
I guess so, I'm not sure how it's not spite when the very same people will say they'd cheer him if he was exactly the same...but a heel.
ReplyDeleteDo people still find growling badasses cool? Cena did exactly what anybody should do in that sort of situation (if you're trying to one-up somebody with physical violence, please don't actually do that), he walked out, slapped Brock to get a reaction, Brock threw some rights, busted Cena open and Cena smiled to tell Brock that he wasn't concerned.
ReplyDeleteCena's character is supposed to be dominant, if you're playing a badass are you going to flip utter shit that you got punched in the face? Is supposed to cry? He got punched, and he basically told Brock to go fuck himself. He's taunting him.
Well, Punk has tried to get mainstream appeal on his own...unsuccessfully after he instigated a twitter war with singer Chris Brown out of the blue. He got some initial play in talk shows but
ReplyDeleteeventually, though, the mainstream just brushed it off with the thought, “Haha, it was just another cro-magnon roid-raged wrestler reacting to things with violence. He’s nobody. He’s not a REAL star like Brock Lesnar and Dwayne Johnson!” And back to mainstream obscurity he went.
WWE Original Films presents Another Night at the Opera! Starring Michael Cole as Groucho.
ReplyDeleteI just don't see the reason, avoid the headache of trying to get the guy over with a new gimmick and just have him come back as A-Train or Albert. No one is buying this Lord Tensai crap.
ReplyDeleteFair enough. Sheamus not being on the show seemed like less of a deal because of the angle with Big Johnny he's just starting to get going, where he's on the verge of being suspended. But I hadn't even thought about Orton not being on the show (him being such a write-off these days anyway). If they didn't want to make room for their Golden Son, they are obviously just saving the Smackdown guys for tonight.
ReplyDeleteNow more than ever, I'd think, is when they need to go back to the brand extension. Playing fast & loose with it helps cover a thin roster but now between all the guys they want to push and all the new talent they're bringing in, they need to have some separation again.
Meltzer reported that WWE planted a bunch of "YES!" signs.
ReplyDelete