Hi Scott,
Any thoughts on the worst matches we never saw, but could have? I was thinking along the lines of winter 1998, when Warrior debuted in WCW and Goldberg was champ. Would Goldberg vs. Warrior at 'Starrcade' 1998 have been the worst 'big match' ever?
The Hogan v. Yokozuna match in WCW that Hulk was pushing for in 98, when Yoko was 800 pounds and could hardly move, would have been right up there. Warrior v. Nash would have been something to see as well. Can you imagine them asking Nash to go out and sell for Warrior?
Damn, I never heard about Hulk gunning for a Yoko rematch in WCW then. Can't imagine why he would want to do such a thing...
ReplyDeleteLet's all be thankful that Snitsky/Heidenreich vs. the Brothers of Destruction didn't go down as planned at Wrestlemania 21
ReplyDeleteNothing could top the possibility of Hulk Hogan vs. Zeus in the main event of WrestleMania 6.
ReplyDeleteSummerSlam 89 was passable thanks to Savage. But a singles match in front of 60,000 people? DEATH.
"Can't imagine why he would want to do such a thing."
ReplyDeleteBecause Hulk was/is obsessed with getting every one of his losses back. I'm surprised Hogan didn't bring a Hebner with him to Yoko's funeral to declare him the winner of an impromptu casket match.
Oddly, I was just thinking about this other day as I watching a lot of 1996 WWF and decided the ULTIMATE anti-dream ("Nightmare") match has to be the ULTIMATE WOYAH~! vs Sycho Sid Vicious Justice.
ReplyDeleteHow long until Hogan coaxes Jacques Rougeau into making a dramatic return to the ring in TNA?
ReplyDeleteWarrior vs Goldberg would have been epic. Two none selling powerhouses... speaking of Warrior, Lex Luger vs Ultimate Warrior. :) Today it could be Great Khali vs anyone. ;)
ReplyDeletei dont know, luger vs warrior 1989-90ish might not be half bad...
ReplyDeleteSomething I've never understood: why does Hogan need to get a win back against Yokozuna? Hogan beat Yokozuna at Wrestlemania IX and then lost at KOTR '93. Was it because his match with Yoko wasn't advertised at WM?
ReplyDeleteSo now your hate has reached the point at which Nash apparently doesn't sell now? Interesting.
ReplyDeleteOh I know, just being smartass.
ReplyDeleteWell, when it comes crashing down and it hurts inside...it's time to get your job back!
ReplyDeleteIt's because it's Hogan. It's not just about being even-steven, it's about Hogan being the last one to win. As it was it seemed like Yoko forced Hogan out of WWF and Hogan never got that win back, so by his logic Yoko owed him one. Even five years later when no one would have given a shit.
ReplyDeleteAustin vs. Hogan. The former even thought so, saying on an episode of Howard Stern their styles are too conflicting. That, and ain't no way Austin was going to lose to Hulk.
ReplyDeleteRather, Hogan's refusal to job to Austin would be on the cherry ontop of a very shitty sundae.
DeleteDid they ever run Scott Steiner vs. Mark Henry in WWE about 10 years ago? I thought I heard grumblings that that was a possibility, and that would have been atrocious. Steiner injured, immobile, and pissed that he was low on the card. Henry green, slow, and confused. I'm envisioning a 10 minute long bearhug.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HY_intJPQ4
ReplyDeleteIt's actually pretty liberal of Hogan to be so concerned about making sure the foreigner had an equal access to jobs.
ReplyDeleteIn the book The Death of WCW, Russo is quoted from a radio interview saying he wanted to bring back Warrior, because "let's be honest, there's no one who wouldn't want to see a Goldberg vs Warrior feud". The writer then said he was surprised Russo wasn't fired the moment that statement came out of his mouth, heh.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised that hasn't happened already.
ReplyDeleteOff topic: Scott, are you ever going to review Starrcade '83 and/or '84?
ReplyDeleteI absolutely think there would've been big-time interest in that match. Sure, it would've sucked, but the casuals didn't really care about that.
ReplyDeleteMan, WWE Steiner was the worst. They took everything that was great about him in WCW (and later in TNA) -- his improvisation, his unpredictable mic work, his goofy self-aware persona -- and stripped it away into a generic WWE muscleman.
ReplyDeleteThat's a squash match. Has nothing to do with selling.
ReplyDeleteHe never got his win back over Goldie. And never asked for his wins back against Taker and Angle in 2002.
ReplyDeleteI like how the rules of wrestling were radically rewritten on the spot so that a 1 count made by Nash's essence counts as a pin. I'd love to hear a heel cite this match as legal precedent in a wrestler's court: "No, I pinned him, Gauntlet Rules in the contest of Nash v. Newblood states that victory is achieved when the opponent is made prone for a count of one, regardless of physical contact. Watch the clip." I think it looks like Nash was supposed to be doing the one foot pin, but they were probably worried about him tearing a quad with all that walking.
ReplyDeleteI would have wanted to see it just to see how insane a clusterf**k the finish would have ended up being. Just imagine, Warrior/Hogan II + Goldberg/Nash...They would have had to put the match on first just to have time for all the run ins, shenanigans, restarts, and swerves.
ReplyDeleteWell Goldberg was a mitigating circumstance because of the undefeated streak, although the Finger Poke of Doom kinda had the effect of getting his win back. During 02 he was really playing nice, I think he really liked having so many good matches and stuff, that he was willing to job more and not be the top guy all the time. But then Vince took it too far with the Zack Gowen stuff and he left again.
ReplyDeleteIronically (coincidentally?), that reminds me of Nash citing "Backlund Rules" during the Paparazzi Championship Series in TNA (a.k.a. the best thing TNA has ever done).
ReplyDeleteThe fact that he's perfectly willing to squash the entire roster to make himself look better should tell you that in a given match, he's not going to sell. Nash is a notorious no-seller.
ReplyDeleteYeah they seemed to back off the idea really fast. I remember reading the original plan was Hogan vs Zeus for the No Holds Barred Movie / Match PPV but they didn't even have faith that it could carry that without being embarrassing, despite it being a taped match.
ReplyDeleteNo joke, I spent an hour hanging out with Jay Lethal this afternoon, and that was the one thing I forgot to ask him about. I didn't ask him to do either of the impressions either.
ReplyDeleteI was LITERALLY just thinking that same combination, at the same time. That match would have been HORRENDOUS, in a way that wouldn't even be interesting to see from a "oh, this is going to be a TRAINWRECK" way.
ReplyDeleteSince Ryan stole mine, I'll go with Hulk Hogan vs. Giant Gonzalez. I'm still kind of shocked that it never happened, considering how big WWE was on Gonzalez, and Hogan's love to fighting every big man that came into the company.
ReplyDeleteRusso booked that match. I always thought, given his size, Nash was pretty solid at selling, especially in big matches. Granted, he earned much of the "lazy" monicker in his regular matches.
ReplyDeleteMet Jay in Miami at the ROH show.
ReplyDelete"Kevin, you're white."
"What? I'm blacker than you!"
I've always wondered what the end game to the Gowen stuff was supposed to be. Heel turn?
ReplyDeleteAlso, in no way do I see the finger poke as Hogan "getting his win back" from Goldberg. If that were the case, he'd have gone over Goldberg for the belt. It's not like it was portrayed as Hogan legitimately beating Nash a night after he beat Goldberg.
ReplyDeleteName dropper!
ReplyDeletej/k
Totally agree with this. In '98, Goldberg-Warrior would've drawn HUGE. Sure, the match might've sucked, but it would've had an awesome epic feel to it.
ReplyDeleteI never drop names! Just ask Kevin Steen and the Briscoes, who I met last night. Didn't drop a name once with them lol.
ReplyDeleteIn the 80's, Ted Arcidi and Big John Studd would have been horrendous. I know Arcidi didnt last long but he sucked something terrible.
ReplyDeleteThey did... but it was after Yoko'd gotten too fat to have a good singles match. There was a title match (about three minutes long) on one of the cheap VHS tapes the WWF put out in the mid-90s.
ReplyDeleteYoko misses the Banzai Drop and Diesel pins him clean.
20 minute Triple Threat Match - Great Khali, Ezekiel Jackson, and Mason Ryan. Make it happen, Vince.
ReplyDeleteI actually REALLY wanted to see that match - sure, it would have been terrible, but sometimes a multi-man hoss match breaks up the monotony, you know? Just as long as it isn't too high on the card.
ReplyDeleteI like Warrior but I think 1998 did a lot of damage to his character and potential drawing power, so it would have been unlikely that Warrior/Goldberg would of done good business together.
ReplyDeleteThere were also rumors that WWE wanted Kevin Nash to work a program with Undertaker in 2002 or 2003 and while their 1996 program kicked ass, I'm sure a feud at that stage of their careers would have brought out Scott's hot poker in the ass rating system.
ReplyDeleteIn fairness, as bad as Taker was in 2001, Scott was way overly harsh on him for the next, oh, five years after that. 2002 heel Taker was freaking tremendous.
ReplyDeleteHere's another one: New Jack vs. Sabu in 98 or 99. That was the point when Sabu was so beat up & sloppy that most of his high flying stuff looked like someone on Suboxyn trying to stage dive, and New Jack never did anything besides hit people with stuff and jump off high places. Granted, most of CZW and other hardcore feds probably have matches with guys just as bad 5 times a night, but Sabu and New Jack were much more famous.
ReplyDeleteCrazy to think at one time Sabu was one of the most talented indie wrestlers in the world.
It was refreshing to see Sabu recharged in the summer of '06 and actually hitting his spots for a few months. He had at few really fun matches with Cena, a great one with Rey, and some good ones with RVD, Show and Angle.
ReplyDeleteThat might be worth it to see if Jackson could break the record for most body slams in a single match.
ReplyDeleteI was impressed when Sabu was going to do the triple jump and he paused while standing on the top rope before jumping on Cena while he was laying on the announce table.
ReplyDeleteJay Lethal is an asshole.
ReplyDeleteThat is all.
Khali vs. Rey Misterio.
ReplyDeleteGot a chuckle out of Mark Madden's "Nash is doing all three of his moves rapid fire" line.
ReplyDeleteWhich happened a couple of times.
ReplyDeleteHe wasn't an asshole to me in the slightest. What's your story on him?
ReplyDeleteYeah I was glad to see him step it up again. I think he needed time to heal, and being in WWE gave him some more motivation to take his time and do things right. He was pretty damn good during that time period.
ReplyDeleteI've always been a fan of his high flying style, because it's less about doing perfect acrobatic flips and twists and more about using his whole body as a weapon and just kinda throwing himself at people. You can see a lot of Sabu influence in Jeff Hardy's style. Too bad he got so sloppy at the end of the 90s, because that turned a lot of people off to him.
You know Nash hasn't even wrestled more than one match in the past six years or so, right? Is it really a big deal if I'm slagging him at this point in his career?
ReplyDeleteScott Steiner should have never been given a script. His rants in WCW were almost always gold.
ReplyDelete"DIAMON DALLAS TRASH! WHIL UR IMMA HOSPITAL SCREAMIN IN PAIN, UR WIFE WILLBE IN MA BED, SCREAMIN MA NAME!!!"
I'd be interested in you expanding this as well.
ReplyDeleteI hope it's not one of those situations where we're taking an isolated incident in which God knows what this guy had going on that day/week in his personal life and simply wasn't nice enough to you or your friend or something like that.
There are enough good stories about fans re: Lethal that I would guess he isn't an "asshole" as you so un-kindly put it.
Jay Lethal and I are from the same town. (Elizabeth, NJ) He was wrestling for TNA in Asbury Park and a big deal was made about it from a promotional standpoint. I decided to bring some kids from the area to go seew him.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the night, TNA has their wrestlers come out a sign autographs. He came out in street clothes, saw one of his friends and talked to him all night. The kids were screaming for him to come over and get an autograph but he flat out ignored them. I made my way over to him and politely said to him, "How are you? I have a bunch of kids that came down from Elizabeth just to see you." He said, "Oh really?" I nodded and pointed to 6 kids in the front row. He walked past them without acknowledging them. I had to lie to the kids that he had to go into the back to do interviews or something. He never came back.
The one person I gave credit to was Brian Kendrick. A little girls was trying to get an autograph from Shannon Moore. Shannon was on the other side of the ramp. Kendrick gave her an autograph and the girls asked if Moore had left. He looked around and said, "I don't see him, but give me your autograph book and I'll see if I could catch him." She gave him her book and he ran backstage, got his autograph and gave the little girl her book back. He actually stayed late to sign every autograph he could. I respect him, but Jay lost all my respect.
Hogan Vs Loch Ness....supposed to be a major program but Loch Nessie bombed so badly in the setup angle they dropped it.
ReplyDeleteGoldberg vs Billy Gunn... oh god, just thinking about it makes me wanna puke
ReplyDelete