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Assorted May-Per-View Countdown: WWF Over The Edge 1998

The SmarK Retro Rant for WWF Over the Edge 98

- This is another one of my patented do-overs, as the original was of course done in 1998 and doesn't hold up well as a review. Plus I always felt that I overrated a lot of the matches at the time. So let's see what 4 years of perspective accomplishes, shall we?  (And then let’s see what another 10 years of perspective accomplishes.) 

- Live from Milwaukee, WI

- Your hosts are JR & King.

- Opening match: LOD2000 v. DOA.

LOD has new recruit Droz with them along with Sunny, and the DOA bring Chainz. Man, did that entire team go to hell or what? Between Droz' injury and Sunny's fall from grace, that babyface side ended up being a bad place to be. (Not to mention Hawk’s death about a year after I wrote this.)  Meanwhile, the Harris twins are still kicking. Go figure. Big brawl to start, and Animal starts with 8-Ball. Luckily, the Harris twins are good enough thugs to wear nametags on their leather jackets, so we can tell the difference. Remember, if you're going to be rabble-rousing, at least have the courtesy to wear a nametag. 8-Ball gets a neckbreaker and a legdrop, but a charge misses and Animal gets a dragon-screw legwhip to take him down. A word on notation here, if I may. Most of this is short-hand for the more accurate descriptions of the move. For instance, some may find "Move vaguely resembling the same motions that one is supposed to make while doing a neckbreaker" too cumbersome to read (and type) 10 times over the course of a 10-minute match, so I just say "neckbreaker" for the sake of keeping things short and to the point, although perhaps I am sacrificing accuracy and/or clarity at the same time, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. For your own reference, laugh after every move name if it helps you come to grips with how badly done each and every move in this match is, as in neckbreaker (ha!) and a legdrop (*snort*), and so on. Hope this helped. Skull & Hawk do some shoving, and Skull drops some elbows. Sideslam gets two. Piledriver is no-sold (and this is doubly apropos, because not only is no-selling the piledriver Hawk's usual MO, but the piledriver itself is so bad, and so much in plain view as making absolutely no contact, that even Jerry Lawler has to cover up for it by noting that Skull didn't get any contact with it) and Hawk gets the neckbreaker, allowing the LOD to work Skull over in the corner. Animal hits the chinlock, and Hawk's legdrop gets two. Hawk then goes up and misses whatever, and he's YOUR drunk-in-peril. DOA gets a double-boot for two. Choking follows. Well, at least they can do THAT properly. Elbow gets two as JR seems ready to break out that old bowling shoe reference. Hawk fights back, but gets laid out by the other Harris brother, and that gets two for the Harris brother who isn't that Harris brother. Dammit, where's those nametags when you need them? (To make matters even worse, Brian Lee’s real name is…Brian Harris.)  To the chinlock, crowd is bored. Beating in the corner continues, but Skull misses whatever off the top, hot tag Animal. He escapes a double-team and suplexes Skull, but 8-Ball switches off in a spot that goes nowhere. It's chaos! Madness! Lunacy! Everyone is running around as cluelessly as Jackie Gayda in a battle royale,  (See, young’uns, Jackie Gayda was a fucking awful wrestler who managed to win a season of Tough Enough, although really not much worse than the Divas today but she had the misfortune of being around at the same time as Lita and Trish and Molly.)  until Droz distracts 8-Ball and Animal powerslams him for the pin at 9:55. To quote Marge Simpson, "It's an ending. That's enough." DUD  (I love that quote.  It works in SO MANY situations.) 

- Rock comes out to speak to his fanclub (which, admittedly, in 1998 wasn't as large as it is today) on the subject of how incredibly ugly the women in Milwaukee are, and why everyone in the city must therefore be a drunk to keep sane and reproduce. Faarooq comes out to defend the honor of drunks everywhere and messes up a piledriver onto a chair, completely missing the chair, and thus making it look ridiculous when Rock is carried off on a stretcher as a result. They fight later, you know.

- Jeff Jarrett v. Steve Blackman.

The feud so hot that it just couldn't be contained by RAW! Blackman attacks on the floor to start, and presses JJ back into the ring. Missile dropkick sets up something else from the top, but we never find out, as Jarrett bulldogs him when he tries it. Strutting results. Blackman kicks him down again, and gets a german suplex for two. JJ gets put into the Tree of Woe and choked. Tennessee Lee (Robert Fuller) distracts Steve by promising him a new pair of pajama bottoms, and the offer is so blindingly tempting that he doesn't even notice JJ clocking him from behind on the floor. (We also would have accepted “Zubaz pants.”  Zubaz pants.)  Back in, Blackman quickly shakes off the daydreaming and goes up, but misses and Jarrett dropkicks him for two. He charges and hits elbow, but when Blackman goes for a pump splash, he hits knee. They do a laughable pinfall reversal sequence, before Jarrett steps things up with a sleeper. Oh, man, they should re-sign him! All he needs is a spinebuster and he's set for the main event again! (Luckily TNA snapped him up so we’d never have to see him on RAW again.)  Blackman, presumably showing that same fire and drive for the bigtime that HHH talked about in his speech, reverses to his own sleeper, as if to say "Hey, Jeff's not the only guy who can work main event style here!" Sadly, this deep and meaningful exchange of political statements is completely overshadowed by Al Snow trying to do commentary with the Spanish announce team and getting tossed out of the building. Who'd have thunk that mere years later, Snow and Blackman would forever revolutionize the face of tag team wrestling with Head Cheese? Well, I guess no one would have thunk that, because they sucked, but I felt like the moment needed a dramatic foreshadowing bit. (I’m sensing I was bored while writing this.)  JJ suplexes out of the sleeper, and that eventually gets two as they lay around in a dramatic selling bit to wait for Snow to get tossed out of the building. Blackman fights back and gets a backbreaker. Spinkick and Buddy Landell elbow get two. The KICK OF FEAR follows, but this time Tennessee Lee is offering him a new pair of sticks, and he gets off his gameplan again. The heels miscommunicate, however, and Blackman gets a rollup for two. He grabs the kendo stick and nails Jarrett for two. He goes up, gets tripped up by Lee, and Jarrett finishes him with his own kendo stick at 10:14. Oh, the irony. Pretty good finish bails this one out. **  (Amazingly they pushed Jarrett even HARDER after this.  I don’t know what he had on Russo, but it must have been good.) 

- Marc Mero v. Sable.

This was advertised as Sable picking a wrestler to defend her honor and help her escape a personal services contract with the evil Mero. If Sable won, she was emancipated. If Mero won, Sable leaves the WWF forever. FOREVER. However, it ended up being Sable taking on the match by herself, and giving a big speech about women's empowerment and not needing a man to fight for her. Which was fine, except that Mero immediately tricked her into going for an easy pinfall, and then cradled her for the pin to win the match. "Forever" ended up being about two weeks, at which point she returned working for Vince McMahon and the angle was never mentioned again. Women's rights ain't what they used to be.  (Not to mention when she left the company for realz, she sued and won, and then came back from THAT as well a couple of years later.) 

- Sho Funaki, Dick Togo & Men's Teioh v. Taka Michinoku & Bradshaw.

Seriously, what in the hell were they thinking with this feud? On the upside, it's better than Bradshaw being the Texas Hardcore champ and feuding with Johnny the Bull on Heat while hitting him with a canoe. I think. (If only they had kept him there instead of deciding that making him World champion would be a splendid idea to try.)  Speaking of Japanese stereotyping, someone sent me a bunch of banned World War II cartoons, and I gotta say that even as someone who's normally pretty much on the "lay off the politically correct BS" side of the fence, they did a pretty efficient job of offending me. Once Bugs Bunny starts throwing out racial slurs at buck-toothed and barefoot Japanese soldiers, that's pretty much over my line of tolerance. It amazes me that America's disgusting propaganda tactics got swept under the rug and buried while Germany got written as the only ones doing that sort of thing. I guess history really is written by the winners. (Most of those cartoons actually ended up on the last couple of volumes of the Looney Tunes Golden Collections, and in fact there’s a whole disc dedicated to them on one of the sets.  That was pretty awesome of Warner, actually, although they stopped doing the sets.)  Anyway, Bradshaw presses Taka onto Kaientai (this was, of course, before Taka joined the WWF-version of the team) on the floor. In the ring, Bradshaw comes in and Kaientai runs away like a monster is chasing them. Teioh starts with Taka to begin things properly and gets a hiptoss, but Bradshaw chases everyone off again. You get the feeling that the only one this is intended to help is Bradshaw? (Probably because it was.)  Togo pounds Taka, but misses a charge and Taka gets a tornado DDT for two. JR makes history by issuing the first apologetic statement about how he wants to see the light heavyweight division get better, and how they're not quite there yet, but any day now. (You know what would really perk up the division?  A midget holding the belt, preferably one dressed like an adorable leprechaun.)  And people wonder why no one takes him seriously anymore. Funaki bails and Taka follows with a quebrada that gets so much hangtime that he overshoots and hits the railing at the same time as the target. Yikes. Togo jumps him on the way back in, however, and hits a wheelbarrow powerbomb. Funaki gets a suplex for two. Teioh with the big boot, and butterfly suplex for two. Togo corkscrews him and uses the Vulcan nerve pinch to slow things down a tick. Snap powerslam gets two. Funaki & Teioh hit the double-team DDT on him, but Bradshaw saves. Togo debuts the swanton bomb on PPV a year before Jeff Hardy (and hits it better), and then he and Funaki follow with a Paisan elbow. Taka elbows out of Funaki's sleeper, but Kaientai do their triple-team sequence. Funaki misses a charge, and Taka makes the hot tag to Bradshaw. He no-sells EVERYTHING, and I mean he barely even registers any of the shots from three guys at once, and powerbombs Funaki in vicious fashion. Tiger suplex on Teioh gets two. Taka comes back in with a Michinoku driver on Togo that gets two, but chaos erupts and Togo sneaks in a senton bomb for the pin at 9:53. Why couldn't we see the Miracle Ecstasy Bomb from Men's Teioh, dammit? And why didn't anyone stop and think that maybe it might have been a good idea just to make Taka & Funaki a team, and have them feud with Togo & Teioh instead of putting all the short guys on the same team? Bradshaw was useless for the purposes of this match, but there was some fun stuff with the Kaientai crew. **1/2

- Intercontinental title: The Rock v. Faarooq.

Rock is sporting a fashionable neckbrace from the earlier attack. Faarooq attacks and rips it off right away, then hits him with it. And Rock SELLS it. Faarooq gets a pair of clotheslines, and Rock bails. They brawl out and back in, where Rock gets a clothesline to take over. He works the neck, and gets a reverse elbow. People's Elbow gets a bit of a pop, although I was at a house show with him in the main event shortly after this and it got the MONSTER pop of the night. JR gives his usual disgust at Rock's showboating, but four years later the move would be used to polish off Hulk Hogan cleanly at Wrestlemania. Think on THAT one. Smack is laid down, and Faarooq clotheslines him and drops a headbutt for two. Rock DDTs him for two. Faarooq spinebuster gets two. It's the old "ref counts three but the heel has his foot on the ropes" trick, but the crowd is so bored that they don't even register the false finish. Rock quickly uses the Ric Flair pin (and draws a big pop) at 5:12. Well, at least it was quick. ½* The Nation and D-X get into a pullapart brawl afterwards.

- Kane v. Vader.

This is, ahem, mask v. mask. Guess who wins. JUST GUESS. Slugfest to start, won by Kane. Kane walks into a boot and Vader clubbers him. Kane reverses a suplex, but misses an elbow. Vader gets a short-arm, which Kane no-sells. Kane gets his own and slugs away, and slams him. Kane up top with the flying clothesline. Zzzzzzzz. Vader slugs back and gets the big boot, but Kane turns the tide again. More punching. Kane hits the chinlock to liven things up and chokeslams Vader, but he bails and finds a wrench. Oh, no, not a wrench! Back in, he gets a clothesline and goes up, but misses the Vadersault. Tombstone ends my pain at 7:18. Man, Kane was not good in the early years. (As opposed to…?)  1/4* Kane gives Paul Bearer the Vader mask as a trophy, and Vader gives a rather infamous interview where he declares himself to be a "fat piece of shit" because he lost. Vader was gone soon after. (Rough week for Vader between the Cold Day In Hell rant and this one.) 

- D-Generation X v. Owen Hart, D-Lo Brown & The Godfather.

This was just after the "D-X visits Atlanta and turns face" angle that was inexplicably chosen by the WWE dunderheads on Confidential as the moment that sunk WCW. D-Lo and Dogg start and exchange hammerlocks. D-Lo slugs him down and overpowers him. He grabs a headlock, which Dogg hiptosses out of . Billy Gunn comes in and clotheslines Owen. Press slam follows, and we get some stalling, but Gunn walks into a leg lariat. HHH slugs Owen and gets the high knee, and a tilt-a-whirl backbreaker for two. Dogg drops a leg for two. Owen goes low on HHH and Godfather comes in and pounds the shit out of HHH. HHH gets a facebuster and Gunn comes in, but gets kicked to death. D-Lo's dropkick is blocked with a catapult, and HHH stomps a mudhole on him. Road Dogg with the shaky-legs kneedrop for two. The Outlaws work D-Lo over and Gunn suplex gets two. HHH kneedrop gets two. Dogg gets caught in the heel corner with a cheapshot, and Godfather puts him down with a back kick. Owen gets a piledriver gets two. Neckbreaker and flying elbow get two. D-Lo's legdrop gets two, and we hit the chinlock. Dogg fights back, but walks into the Skyhigh powerbomb for two. Dogg bodypresses Owen for two, but Owen hooks the Sharpshooter. HHH saves. Godfather misses a pump splash, but a clothesline gets two. Back to the chinlock, and D-Lo goes up with the moonsault for two. Senton misses, hot tag Gunn. He cleans house on the heels as the camera closes in on his pathetic missed punches in the corner. A belt gets involved and D-Lo gets piledriven on it, but there's no ref. Owen Pedigrees HHH on that same belt, and gets the pin at 17:37. Whoa, that's pretty much the only time you'll see THAT finish. Pretty boring stuff here. *1/2

- WWF title match: Steve Austin v. Dude Love.

Okay, here it is: The match that established the Steve Austin Main Event Style forever and gave Vince Russo his idea to recycle 800 times after this. The Fink is forced to robotically introduce guest ring announcer Pat Patterson in glowing terms while reading from cue cards. Funny shit. Pat is apparently a Canadian legend on the level of Anne Murray. No argument there. Pat then introduces fellow stooge (and guest timekeeper) Gerald Brisco, including a plug for the body shop, of course. "We know who does the rear ends", JR notes. The introduction of guest referee is so incredibly over-the-top that you know Vince had to write it himself. And you know it's a special occasion because Mick has his teeth in. Patterson refuses to introduce a bum like Austin, but everyone knows who he is. Undertaker then delays the opening bell by making a surprise appearance as the guest enforcer to keep Vince in line. Vince starts bullying Austin right off the opening lockup. Dude's shoulderblock gets a REALLY fast two-count, and UT shoots Vince a dirty look. The counts slow down after that. (Perhaps Undertaker taped his fists menacingly in the locker room beforehand.)  Crowd is just INSANE for Austin. Dude gets a knee for one and grabs a headlock, and they work off that for a bit. Crowd chants "Vince is gay". Well, that's just slander. Dude's teeth get knocked out, so Austin improvises a spot where he stomps on them. What an awesome touch. Well, now Mick's pissed, and he pounds on Austin in the corner, but walks into a Thesz Press and gets dumped. They brawl, and Austin hits the stairs. Vince tells them that there's no countouts, which is news to JR, so back in we go. Dude gets a legsweep for two, and chokes away. Dude drops an elbow and rams a knee into the gut for two. Austin gets a Neckbreaker and three clotheslines, and stomps a mudhole. Dude gets the Mandible Claw early on, but Austin hangs him in the ropes. Out we go, and Patterson "reminds" us that it's no-DQ. This, also, is news to JR, and he gets a bit bent out of shape over it. (I think this match worked so well because Russo’s goofy conceit about the rules changing mid-match was one of the first booking twists in a long LONG time that was wholly original.  )Dude takes advantage of this sudden change of stips by choking out Austin with a TV cable, but hits a table and gets pounded. Austin sends Dude into the front row with a sick clothesline over the railing, and back to ringside for more ass-whooping. Back in, Austin crotches himself and Dude baseball slides him out again. Neckbreaker on the floor, and now Patterson "reminds" us that it's falls count anywhere. JR is shocked and appalled. Dude gets a backslide for two in the aisle. Austin rips his head off with a lariat and they fight to the cars used as scenery, where Dude backdrops Austin onto a car, and gets two. Austin hotshots Dude onto a car for two. They head onto the roof, but Dude blocks a stunner and sends Austin crashing to the floor in a crazy bump. Austin blades on the way down. Dude then sunset flips him off the top of the car, for two. Dude grabs an exhaust pipe, but Austin isn't ready to take the shot so they scrap it. Austin fights back, but a piledriver is reversed for two. Dude suplexes him and heads up to the roof of a car, but misses an elbow. Austin gets two from that. They head back to ringside and into the ring, where Pat trips Austin to put Dude back on offense. He exposes a turnbuckle, and rams Austin into it, then works the cut. Dude hits the chinlock and Austin fights free.but goes back into the turnbuckle again. Dude grabs a chair in desperation and uses that for a double-arm DDT that gets two, but charges and gets it back in the face. Now Austin is PISSED. Chairshot kills Foley DEAD, but Vince won't count. Dude recovers and charges with the chair again, but now Vince gets it upside the head and goes night-night. KICK WHAM STUNNER, no ref. Another ref runs in to count, but Pat Patterson gets rid of him at two. Mick reverses to a Mandible Claw and Pat decides to exercise his refereeing powers to count two, but Undertaker exercises his right to fuck shit up old-school and chokeslams him through a table. OH YEAH. Now THAT'S an effective use of Undertaker. You know a match is working when it's 4 years later and you'll still marking out watching it. Brisco tries the same refereeing strategy, and he gets no love from the Deadman, either. KICK WHAM STUNNER, and Austin uses Vince's own hand to count the pin at 22:26 and blow the damn roof off the building. ****3/4 Now THAT'S sports entertainment. (Here’s why the current WWE “rules” about how to be a “professional” bug the shit out of me.  So CM Punk gets punished because someone ratted him out to HHH about not wearing a suit in the airport.  Think about this for a minute:  When did Steve Austin, the biggest star in the history of the UNIVERSE, ever wear a suit?  What would happen if you told him to a wear a suit?  And yet he was the biggest star they ever had.  Further, what was the biggest FEUD they ever had?  I can sum it up in three lines of dialogue:  “You should wear this suit.”  “Fuck you and everyone associated with you.”  “Well, then I’m just going to have to destroy you.”  In fact, they once did an angle on RAW where Vince tried to make Austin wear a suit, and Austin gave him a shot in the nuts in response.  The irony is so thick that I’m shocked it doesn’t choke out the oxygen in the arena some nights.) 

The Bottom Line:

Pretty brutal show for the first couple of hours, but in grand tradition of the Austin era, the main event completely bailed out the entire show and sent the crowd home on a high note. However, that match is available in full on the Mick Foley DVD, so skip Over the Edge and pick that up instead.

Recommendation to avoid.

Comments

  1. I love the Austin Vs Dude Love match so much.

    Would kill to see a match with such a great balance of great action / humour / storytelling these days

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  2. The argument against Punk was that he wasn't John Cena (since apparently he said, "Cena doesn't have to wear a suit, why should I?").  And since Cena is not Austin, I think it's pretty clear in WWE's mind why Punk had no business raising a stink.  And to be fair, although I think Punk is awesome, trying to compare him to Austin is pretty far-fetched.

    It might make more sense if you simply substitute the Rock for Austin (given your man-crush on Rock).  If anyone tried to equate Punk with Rock, you'd take them to ask for it, and rightfully so given how much farther down the card Punk was when this happened.

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  3. SasukespecialmanMay 20, 2012 at 2:45 AM

    I think what Scott was referring to is that there is clearly no correlation between mainstream success and the wearing of suits. Austin, the biggest star in the industry and the top representative of the company, didn't have to wear a suit and yet his time on top was (arguably) the most prosperous in the history of the company. Not only that, but part of Austin's appeal was that he didn't wear a suit - implying that the public doesn't really give a crap about corporate image and might even actively embrace the rejection of suits. Punk is one of the bigger stars in the company right now and has embraced a largely anti-authority persona. Why should he be walking around in a suit?

    I think what Scott is hitting on effectively here is that the WWE has, over the past several years, embraced a pro-corporate image that might be hurting its popularity. Sure, it was always a big company and clearly out to make money, but Austin didn't run around talking about how he represented the company, or was WWE 4 Life, or wanted to be the face of the company, etc. Now, HHH is supposed to draw big-time face heat by dressing up in a suit and declaring that the status-quo is perfect and that wrestlers have no right to demand title shots or anything. Sure, Ace is a tool, but he is presented as one delusional middle manager; he is NOT the corporation, nor is he "The Man". Heck, HHH outranks him!

    This whole trend is particularly weird during a time period where large portions of the American population are actively rising up against what they perceive to be a corrupt, morally bankrupt corporate structure in the States. People are more sick than ever of big companies pretending to be the good guys, and Vince&Co. seem to think it is the perfect time to send the message that no wrestler is bigger than the company. The whole thing is just weird.

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  4. It should be noted that a couple of years before Hornswoggle held the Cruiserweight title, Chavo Guerrero SENIOR and fuckin' Jacqueline held it, which Chavo took off her in a one-hand-behind-my-back match. On PPV. A PPV I paid $100 to have floor seats for (at least there was booze). This was right around the time Scott said fuck it and ended his SD rants for good.

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  5. TheRealCitizenSnipsMay 20, 2012 at 3:37 AM

    "Man, Kane was not good in the early years. (As opposed to…?)"Aww, come on. Nobody will ever confuse Kane with being an Eddie Guerrero/Ric Flair ***** worker, but that's never been his job. I've long argued he is terribly underrated because of the sheer amount of shitty angles he's had to work with and because the role he's booked as doesn't really lend itself to classic matches. I think he does the job he is asked to do as well as anybody possibly could. (Not to mention, he has been RIDICULOUSLY healthy throughout the course of his career compared to his peers, especially for a guy his size.)

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  6. People can slag off Mick as much as they want. "Glorified stuntman" yadda, yadda. But I'd say he was easily the best wrestler in the WWF in 98.


    As Dude he had those two great matches with Austin, HIAC with Taker, some fun stuff with Funk against the Outlaws, a great Raw match against Funk, the Breakdown Cage match with Rock and Shammy.Thats a hell of a year. He deserved to win the title at the end of it. 

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  7.  I can't even imagine there being anyone who doesn't hold Mick in high regard. I mean, he was the Ric Flair of hardcore wrestling. He had ****+ bouts with Sting, Vader, The Nasty Boyz [and who else can say that?], Terry Funk, HHH [during his snob run and My Time run], Stone Cold, The Rock, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Raven, Mikey, Tommy Dreamer, Randy Orton, Edge, Ric Flair [well, his SS match was almost ****]. I mean, he's fantastic.

    Not to mention Mick cared SO MUCH about putting thought, and effort into his promos and angles. He never wanted to slack. He wanted every thing he did to be Hall of Fame material.

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  8. I prefer it to just doing the same plotline over and over again.  Doing a similar story from a different perspective is actually quite interesting.

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  9. This. The whole "You must wear a suit and prop up the company brand image non-stop because we want to be bigger than the talent" thing is so obnoxious and over-the-top, and no fan gives a shit about it. Guys who are bad-ass do not act like corporate shills, and this is why John Cena will never get any respect from someone who can grow chest hair.

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  10.  See in a way I almost understand the suit thing, because if you have these professional athletes and TV personalities appearing in public, it makes them look a little bush league to show up in an airport dressed the way wrestlers used to dress: tank tops, workout shorts or Zubaz pants (Zubaz pants.) and fanny packs. But, if someone is wearing a regular t-shirt and jeans, or whatever, I don't think that should be a problem.

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  11. Jeff Jarrett gets wayyyyyy too much criticism for a guy who had numerous fun runs. Fun in 1995 with Roadie, fun with Debra in 1999, fun with Slapnuts in 2000 and more recently fun with Double J Double M A in 2010.

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  12.  I've felt this way since the god awful walkout storyline

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  13.  Another thing fans don't give a shit about? CONTRACT DISPUTES!

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  14. Can someone please explain HHH's infamous speech to me? I've read bits and pieces of it from various sources but I always thought it was a joke. Turns out it's real?

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  15. The newest Stone Cold set has the main event on it as well.  One of the best sets the WWE has produced, the documentary is fantastic (on par with the Jericho doc in my opinion) and it's full of great matches and a full disc of promos and stuff from after the cameras stopped rolling.

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  16. "It amazes me that America's disgusting propaganda tactics got swept under the rug and buried while Germany got written as the only ones doing that sort of thing."

    Um.

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  17. People don't like to listen to millionaires arguing with billionaires about money. Truth.

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  18. Mick was the first guy I really got behind (hell, he was in the first TV match I watched live) but I can easily see how somebody could not enjoy his work. Just like Ric Flair, Mick's particular style isn't everyone's cup of tea. He's the wrestling version of Kevin Smith.

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  19.  There are strong similarities. I guess Mick was a guest on the Smodcast a while back, which is pretty cool.

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  20. Despite my semi-pro-suit-wearing stance, Cena seems like the kind of guy who wears a suit every day and changes into his Jorts when he gets to the arena. 

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  21.  I remember PWI or one of the other Apter mags reporting that Adrian Adonis was fired from WWF for appearing at an airport pretty much dressed in drag between shows -- Was there any truth to this? Did he intentionally get fired because he was fed up with his dumb ass gimmick or was there something more to it? If I recall, the article pretty much stated he usually dressed in jeans and a t-shirt while traveling but was spotted in character basically and that he was immediately let go...

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  22. That is exactly what I was going for, in fact.  

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  23. Mick was on Smodcast? I need to find that, as the main Smod is one of my favorite podcasts to listen to while working.

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  24. Wasn't it the Undertaker who talked to Punk about wearing a suit, to which Punk replied with "why doesn't Cena have to wear a suit?" Then Punk gets buried by the Undertaker in less than ten minutes in a Hell in a Cell match?

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  25. "Here’s why the current WWE “rules” about how to be a
    “professional” bug the shit out of me.  So CM Punk gets punished because
    someone ratted him out to HHH about not wearing a suit in the airport. 
    Think about this for a minute:  When did Steve Austin, the biggest star
    in the history of the UNIVERSE, ever wear a suit?  What would happen if
    you told him to a wear a suit?  And yet he was the biggest star they
    ever had."GREAT points Scott. I fully agree.

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  26. The Austin vs. Dude Love match from this show was one of the best matches in 1998. Also a personal favorite of mine.

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  27. Before they called it XPac Heat, they called it Jeff Jarrett Heat.  He always seemed like he was a good athlete but a mediocre worker, and it didn't make sense why he couldn't have better matches. 

    Anyway, he has an annoying know-it-all twangy voice, he was protected and pushed to the moon by Russo whenever possible (despite no discernible heat or growth) in multiple companies, he could never carry any opponent despite being a veteran, the only thing about him that was "over" was his guitar so he kept that for years and years, etc. 

    Honestly, there was never a time I wanted to see Jeff Jarrett.  I wanted him to just go away.  The only time I could tolerate him was when he was with Owen.  But I guess he's not my cup of tea and I don't really begrudge someone for being entertained by some of his stuff.

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  28.  The funny thing is, of all of them, Punk made a gimmick out of wearing his "announcer blazer".

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  29. This is what pisses me off about the current WWE locker room mindset.  The company has done everything it can to tell the current crop of workers that they aren't in the same league as the workers being brought back to headline Mania and other PPVs and so when someone like Punk actually acts the same way someone like Austin acted in 98, it turns into an affront to HHH, Undertaker, and anyone else that's been turned into a demagogue.  

    There's a reason your product sucks Paul.  There's a reason no one has "stepped up."  It's because if anyone dares buck the system, they get the taste slapped out of their mouth.  I am sick of the attitude era stars acting like they weren't a bunch of assholes back in 98 and limiting the potential of this group to such a degree.

    Oh well, at least Bradshaw isn't hazing rookies anymore.  Right?

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  30. "Rough week for Vader between the Cold Day In Hell rant and this one."

    Yeah, but not as rough as the week where he got his ass kicked by Paul Orndorff and then found himself unemployed.

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  31. Chris Jericho was on Adam Carolla's podcast about a month ago. My all time favorite wrestler, on my idol's show, couldn't ask for much more.

    Jericho was awesome, he truly needs to have a show in this format. He's witty, personable, knows a ton of useless information, has been all over the world and could tell stories for days. 

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  32. Nah, before X-Pac heat there was Honky Tonk Man heat and Big Boss Man heat. One of them had a guitar though, so you're close :)

    I can see why Jarrett gets a lot of negative criticism (and he's had an abundance of shite runs, like his never-ending TNA World Title reigns) to the point where people are quick to forget when he WAS entertaining. Or at least entertaining to me, anyway. His voice is either the greatest or worst thing ever though, I agree. ''AHH AHM THE CHOSEN WAHHN''

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  33. "(I’m sensing I was bored while writing this.)"During a Jeff Jarrett/Steve Blackman match?!I don't buy it.

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  34. Count me in as a Kane fan. We never give the guy credit because he's been doing the exact same AMAZING stuff for 15 years already. For his size the guy moves as graceful as any of the smaller guys.

    And yeah, the poor guy has been stuck with the absolutely worst angles this side of Big Show. Everything from "Paul Bearer is his dad" to "Katie Fucking Vick".

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  35. Just reading the rant has me marking out for that main event. I forgot how goddamn good that match was.

    It's funny, we always give Foley credit for making Rock and Hunter into "true main eventers" but we always forget he was Austin's first big feud too.

    It could really be argued that Mick Foley had a hand in building all the biggest stars of his generation, Austin/Rock/HHH/Taker.

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  36. That would be a really cool podcast. If he covered all of his areas of interest it would be really fun to listen to because he'd never run out of things to say. Just as long as he doesn't fill it up with his boring band's songs.

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  37. I think it was the hosts of RBR who started the Mr. Garrison/Jeff Jarrett comparison, so whenever I hear Jarrett talk now, all I hear is Mr. Garrison's voice.

    "AHM THE CHOSEN ONE, MR. HAT!"

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  38. Yeah, as much as I dig Jericho, and metal, I thought Fozzy was a lot better when they were characters who did covers. 

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  39. I remember watching USWA programming on ESPN back around 1992 or so when they had to fill up a lot more time. Jarrett was GOD down there, every time he came out the place went nuts and he was considered the top star for a while. Flash forward to him coming to the WWE and he's just a boring jabroni. Then to WCW, then back to WWE, then to TNA as someone pushed constantly but never wanted. The dichotomy never ceases to amaze me (even though I obviously know why he was pushed so hard in USWA/TNA of course).

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  40. but...how is it possible that it's on the DVD if the cameras had stopped rolling?  

    nyuk nyuk.

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  41. why is Adam Carolla your idol?  He's all right and all, but...

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  42. yet, here he is, once again, ranting about SmackDown

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  43. get your machete ready, because it's not going to happen, otherwise.  

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  44. SasukespecialmanMay 20, 2012 at 2:40 PM

    This is so true. Foley is the ultimate giver in the history of wrestling. He sacrificed his body to get others over and deserves every accolade and every dollar he receives. In recent years, people have seemingly become annoyed with his "I can make a star out of [insert name of young wrestler here]" attitude, but the truth is that he has done it so many times. 

    Perhaps what is most impressive about it is that, looking at your list of 4 people (to which one could add Orton), Foley put over two of those people while wrestling as a face (Rock and HHH) and two while wrestling as a heel (Taker and Austin). THAT is ridiculous talent. In fact, thinking about it, Foley has serious claims to being one of the all time greats, up there with those guys (HBK, Flair) who built a legacy on epic matches and long strings of main events.

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  45. Austin/Dude is a good match, but I can't help but wonder how much better it would have been had Austin been healthier.   Mick Foley's sick bumps and the great booking make the match of course, but Austin can't really take the bumps outside with any gusto (i.e. the backdrop onto the car)  Having said that, I'm not really a big fan of out of the ring brawls generally speaking, unless they are filled with wall to wall craziness, so it not be my bag to begin with.

    Hard to beat the booking though -- Vince McMahon and Pat Patterson together could do some pretty incredible stuff.  Patterson is actually one guy I am actually surprised WCW or ECW never tried to get (versus Russo) as he seemed pretty integral to their success in booking finishes.

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  46. Because Adam is a no bullshit kinda guy. He does not lie. He's straight forward, honest, very smart, and hardworking. He busted his ass to get where he's at, never made excuses, never fucked anyone over, stood up for his people and ideas.

    All he wants is for everyone to treat each other fairly, for people to quit making excuses, to bust ass for theirs, to be good parents, and just quit with the bullshit.

    I understand he's not everyone's cup of tea, but I think he's what it's all about when trying to get ahead in life. He has the Guinness World Record for most downloaded podcast in the World, and he doesn't charge for it.

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  47. Man, I'm surprised this rant didn't even mention the infamous legends segment when The Crusher and Mad Dog Vachon were being honored and Lawler got up from the announce table and stole Mad Dog's artificial leg.

    Lawler mentioned in his book that this was a completely unplanned rib that Vince ordered him to do through his headset and Mad Dog had no idea it was going to happen. You can tell that JR looks LEGITIMATELY pissed afterwards!

    So, basically the segment involved a disabled legend getting humiliated and didn't lead to anything and existed for the sole purpose of making Vince McMahon laugh. Out of all the Vince McMahon stories I've heard, this one may paint the most disturbing picture of his mindset.

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  48. I always found it funny that Undertaker was apparently the one who confronted Punk about wearing a suit since I don't think I've ever seen Taker wear one and it wouldn't fit his persona either.

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  49. I couldn't get into him either, not in the WWF or WCW in any of his runs and for all the reasons you mention -- he was just one of those guys that always had me itching to change the channel.  His TNA stuff oddly worked better for me.

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  50. Just caught the podcast...yeah, Jericho is awesome. I really have to pick up both his books. I'm glad he caught the Maria Menudos makeup-shit stain during Mania. I thought I was the only one who noticed lol.

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  51. I don't think anyone can deny that real-life Vince is a Grade A douche.

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  52. Kane sucked at first but he got to be pretty damn good around 2001-2007ish. The problem is that most of the angles he was involved in during his prime totally fucking sucked.

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  53. Preach it, brother! And it's not only the WRESTLERS from that era who have such terrible mindsets. Like that one Legends of Wrestling Roundtable where JR was bitching about how today's crop of stars don't rail against the system in order to make it to the next level. Yet, he doesn't mention how today's system is so petty and ridiculous, it's damn near impossible to make any waves without being de-pushed or even fired. CM Punk is the only one who did and he's a world champion who plays second-fiddle to John Cena and his feud with a long-retired former wrestler/now-authority figure.

    And a lot of these mid-carders that he blasts have families to support and can't afford to be unemployed. The same fucking excuse JR uses himself ("I have a family to support") when Vince trots him out for his bi-annual humiliation. I'm sorry, you can't tell me that a "Hall of Famer" like JR can't rail against the system himself and say no in regards to getting slapped around by Michael Cole.

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  54. Yeah, when she did the Bronco Buster to...whoever it was I can't even remember...they had so much spray tan on it smeared on her white pants. Looked like a skid mark lol.

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  55. At least JR actually did some good while he was there.  I have my issues with him, especially when he turns into a company man, but he also believed in wrestling, and solid storytelling.

    But guys like HHH, who are now moving into backstage roles, have absolutely no sense of perspective.  They were a part of something amazing, but they would not have gotten anywhere if the likes of Bret Hart (for Austin), or Mick Foley (for HHH) had acted the same for them.  

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  56. The Nazis get a rough time in the history books because they Holocausted ~15  million people. Not because we get on them for nasty cartoons of Jews while excusing American cartoons of Japs.

    Also, _who sweeps American anti-Japanese sentiment under the rug?_ You hear that false equivalence all the time: "Well, sure, the Japanese murdered and raped millions of Chinese and Koreans and the Germans holocausted millions more, but, you know, the Americans put a bunch of Japanese people in internment camps on the west coast. So really everyone is bad."

    I mean, sorry that Dr. Seuss wrote some nasty anti-Japanese limericks and Warner Brothers made some racist cartoons, but it's not like Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany are unfairly getting the short end of the stick.

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  57. Not only that, but HBK (Mindgames) was helped by working with Foley. And HHH had two go-arounds with Foley that bumped him up big-time.

    People tend to think of their program in 2000, but the one in the summer of '97 was really important too. It helped Hunter get seen as a legitimate mid to upper mid-card player, which made his association with HBK more believable. Hunter also became a much more consistent worker at that time as well.

    God, I wish Mick, Bret & Shawn (part-time) had become the WWE creative brain trust. Would have been soooo much better than Steph, Hunter, and whatever bootlicks they have had around them this past decade.

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  58. Which one do you mean? He's had a few.

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  59. I'm not entirely sure. There's some speech that he made to the wrestlers a few years back about picking up the pace or whatever that was truly ridiculous.

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  60. I like the example of Punk/Austin and the suits. I don't think it's actually the dress code that Scott's getting at, it's the attitude of the company as a whole and the irony of it - in 1998 they promoted Vince, and the WWF, as the heel by being uptight and corporate, while Austin was the biggest name in wrestling because he was everything the company wasn't. Now, they really do run the company like it's 1998 kayfabe WWF and don't realize they're doing everything they had the fictional heel WWF do, if that makes sense. Basically, they portrayed the company a certain way in 1998 knowing that it would make the company a heel in the fans eyes, and now they actually are that way.

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  61. I liked Kane from his debut until about 2000. I liked him go from monster, to confused monster, to having a soft spot for X-Pac, becoming "human", and then having X-Pac turn on him and wanting to kill him. After that he was really just there, I don't recall him doing anything interesting. I didn't even like his 2002 return, he was just there until he lost the mask...and even that was only interested for about a month. I'm sure he's had the odd angle here and there I liked since 2003, but I'll be damned if I can remember it off the top of my head.

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  62. I just read today that Vince wanted Kane, in the See No Evil movie, to show his penis...and have it be 3 feet long. I think that sums up the mind of Vince McMahon.

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  63. Hunter picking up the pace, that's funny. Even at his best (which was awfully good), he worked somewhat deliberately.

    I'm not sure exactly what the speech in question is, but I can imagine it's tone and general direction (hint: both condescending). Anyone enlighten us more clearly?

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  64. Fun?  I don't think that word means what you think it means.

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  65. My vote for 1998 MOTY went to Dude Love-Austin and I bought the tape of this show from my local video store for that match alone.  The changing of the rules drew great heat and the finish was amazing.  Props to Pat Patterson for taking that chokeslam through the table like a champ.  The finish was pretty creative as well and added more fuel to the Austin-McMahon storyline.

    I always have enjoyed the six man tag as well.

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  66. Exactly. Internment of the Japanese was bad, but the Americans were plainly and obviously at the high end of the moral barometer for the entirety of World War II, and only an idiot would think otherwise. Obviously nobody here thinks otherwise, but I agree that the false-equivalency of "they're all bad" is stupid.

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  67. Cartoon discussion in a rant? I'd thought I'd stumbled onto an Eric S review until I noticed you didn't call Rock and Austin Flex and Wife-Beater.

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  68. #1) Holocausted? What the FUCK are you talking about?? My great grandfather wasn't killed in a GENOCIDE just for an undereducated, over-opinioned internet pseudonym to wax patriotic when he can't even get the fucking terminology right. Holocausted?! Why am I even bothering? (Because I bombed on stage tonight and have some aggression.)

    2) Further, in any war, it is important to remember who you are fighting. Are you fighting Mom and Pop Nippon who live peacefully in Osaka? Were they the ones killing the Koreans and the Chinese and keeping Comfort Women? Oh, you mean a minority of the population that served in the military committed those acts? You don't say. And there's a distinction there? Wow. Shades of complexity. So, please, I'm obviously as clueless as you are, explain to me how internment of Americans was meant to assist in WW2?

    And before you want to pat yourself on the back for achievements your ancestors earned, consider, at every time - we are SOLD a war. The US wanted nothing to do with WW2 until 1941. Why so late in the game? Because it's far more profitable for a country clawing its way out of a depression to sell arms to BOTH sides. Most news reporters were actually supportive of the Nazi regime and would refuse to even mention a possible genocide in Europe. (Father Charles Coughlin being a precursor to Limbaugh.)

    But...rah, rah, there's a flag and all that.

    Holocausted...fucking dunce.

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  69. ...which is why the US entered the war in 1941, years after the invasion of Poland. After years of selling arms to both sides of the conflict. Because of a moral barometer.

    On the other hand, do you like New York City? I have this great riverside property overlooking Brooklyn, that you would just LOVE. I'll give you a great deal.

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  70. Settle down, Beavis. Talk about missing his point.

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  71. You know, it's amazing...you can call me a k*ke until the cows come home. Couldn't care less.

    But using your own ignorance to prove a point? Yeah, tends to piss me off.

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  72. You're a loon.

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  73. Maybe so...but unlike you, I know my history. And given your "knowledge" of easily accessible historical facts, I'd wager you don't know much about mental health either. So, pardon me if I take your diagnosis of "loon" with a grain of salt.

    I mean, Jesus, you DO know that it was the Russians that ultimately defeated the Nazis, right? Why do you think they were the ones that found Hitler's supposed corpse? Kept his skull, supposedly, too.

    My God, is this what my kids have to look forward to?

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  74. I can't believe a guy like you would bomb on stage. You seem like a laugh riot.

    I'm not quite sure who you're responding to or if you even need me for this one-sided delusional monologue you have going. Who said anything about Russians? Or internments helping us in WW2? Or the U.S. not having fascist sympathizers? Not me. I guess a voice in your head, maybe?

    As far as I can tell, the chief bug up your bottom is me turning Holocaust into a verb. Sorry you can't deal with that.

    In an event, I would trounce you in World War II history and trivia. But, alas, I don't have time to play internet with you today. So have fun and, remember, open mics.

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  75. I couldn't have said it better myself. However, in the future, rather than threatening to "trounce" someone in knowledge...most people just do it. It helps with being taken seriously.

    Yeah, I bomb sometimes. Every few months. Difference is, I do it in front of a paying audience. With no boss. 

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  76. http://tinyurl.com/7uwe4u3

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