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Assorted May-Per-View Countdown: WWF Over The Edge 99

The SmarK Retro Rant for WWF Over The Edge 99

Live from Kansas City, MO

Your hosts are Jim Ross & Jerry Lawler

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gullible?s=t

C’mon, did you REALLY think was this happening? 

Comments

  1. Love ya Scott, but this was kinda lame.

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  2. I clicked on this thinking...why?  Makes sense and I agree Scott, no need to re-visit this.

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  3. (Sheepish Stewie Griffin voice) ...yeah.

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  4. Yeah, I was gonna say... no way he would pull this one out now and do it randomly. 

    Personally I don't mind -- Owen Hart dying is the only real memory I have of this show, along with the face on poor Debra in the interview afterwards.

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  5. Man, Jarrett had to be going through hell, probably moreso than anyone on the roster given how close he and Owen were.

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  6. Wow I was about to say, is he REALLY doing one for this show?  Yeah, I pretty much have no use for even reading about this show anymore....

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  7. This show is a reminder of why Vince McMahon is a true and evil bastard.

    One of his performers died in the ring and he just continued on with the show.

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  8. Yes, I did.  Why on earth not?

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  9. Why does Canada have an April Fools Day in May?

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  10. Damn it! I always wanted to know Scott's rating for Val Venis and Nicole Bass against Jarrett and  Debra! 

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  11. Damn, I fell for it

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  12. There is a massive difference between stupid and evil.

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  13. At the time, I was fairly new to wrestling (only having started watching with Rumble '99), and even then at that point I didn't watch RAW all the time.  I knew that Owen was the Blue Blazer, but I wasn't watching closely enough to pick up that it was an unkept secret on TV.  And to be honest, I wouldn't have been able to pick Owen out of a lineup.  So it needless to say it was a weird time in my fandom.

    I was watching the PPV in a sports bar, and wasn't entirely paying attention to the pre-match video.  So when they came back and JR started talking about Owen by his name, not realizing they already had been doing that throughout the angle, I knew something serious had happened.  It's simply coincidental that it clued me in via the use of his real name, but nevertheless, for that reason, at no point did I think it was an angle.

    I don't remember anything about how the crowd reacted in the sports bar.  I do know that I got up and called two of my friends who weren't there to let them know what happened, but other than  that, I can't tell you anything about the experience.  When I got home, though, I do remember scouring CNN (the actual channel!) and the like to watch the various reports on it.

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  14. Clever.

    Why not? 2012 Scott seems to be able to Re-Rant on articles that feature over the top gushing about a guy that went on to murder a child. I don't see how this could be any more awkward really.

    Was there ever an original rant done for this? I'd very interested to see Scott's thoughts on the Owen thing, is there another article I can go search for somewhere?

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  15. (Apu voice) I have been SWERVED and I love it!

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  16. IT'S THE ULTIMATE SWERVE!!!!!

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  17. I believe the argument is that despite whether you feel that Benoit was sick or cold-blooded, there is still a certain amount of culpability atrributed to him.  Owen's death was a complete, total, freak, unneccesary accident that happened on the show that Scott would be reviewing, completed with real time reactions from various people.  Had Benoit done what he did during the WM 20 celebration or backstage right after, I imagine Scott wouldn't review that, either.

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  18. Hey, you can "Thumbs Down" this thing.

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  19. I said "Really" out loud at my desk.

    I actually have some vague memories of the main event involving some sort of screwy ending with the Undertaker.

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  20. Either way,  it sure does make you wonder what it would be like to spend a day in that man's mind though. 

    Operating under the assumption that everybody in the know was fully aware that Owen Hart was dead when they scraped him off the mat, I just think it was a terrible decision that showed an incredible lack of empathy for the other employees in the company.  I mean, you'll send Shawn Michaels home when he shows up intoxicated backstage so that he doesn't cause trouble, but you won't send your other employees home when they can barely get it together for an interview?  They are lucky that so many of them were pre-taped.  There is not much point in continuing with a show when the participants themselves aren't really in the condition to perform, not to mention opening a huge can of worms.

    I don't know, perhaps somewhere in a messed up state, he made a quick decision and thought it would end up as some sort of living tribute to Owen.  Or maybe he just thought 'screw em all, I am not refunding all these PPV orders!'  Hard to say what goes on in that head.

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  21. SasukespecialmanMay 24, 2012 at 2:29 PM

    Wow. This "gullible" guy stole the show! I bet he even has a wikipedia entry!

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  22.  Yet, when you hear from almost every wrestler on the show, they say something towards, "We didn't know what to do," or "there was no right answer."  I think everyone was in the state of shock and just went on auto-pilot.  I know, as a viewer, that's what I did.  I just stared blankly at the TV for the rest of the show; just numb.  I took a couple days off from school immediately after when it started to hit me.  Almost needless to say, being a Hart Foundation mark and finding inspiration through those innovative storytellers, I was crushed when Pillman and Owen passed. 

    The only things I remember from the show are JR and Lawler trying to keep it together to deliver the news and stall, and the Blue Blazer video package they showed right before the match was going to take place, which had me totally geared up for his inevitable victory over Godfather (who was a lame duck champion).  Owen was going to win that IC title for a third time at the show, cement upper mid-card status, and maybe make a few main events posing as a foil for HHH, Rock, and Foley.

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  23. Yeah I agree with that logic, and besides I think the whole thing is just depressing.  Wrestling is supposed to be a fun diversion -- how do you enjoy a show as a fan when you know a guy just died and there is a big bloody spot on the ring from it during the whole thing?  There are better shows to review.

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  24. Things are moving a mile a minute during a ppv or a Raw. I imagine it was 10x worse when Owen died. The live audience had no idea what was going on, a guy everyone loved and has worked for you for years had just died, it was probably fucking chaos in the back. There is no way that Vince and co. were in the right frame of mind to make the decision.

    Yes, they should have stopped it. But I definitely don't blame Vince for going to the guys and saying "Just get through it as quick as you can." I believe it had nothing to do with not wanting to refund people, or any malicious intent whatsoever. It was just a chaotic situation that required him to make an instant decision. 

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  25. Any favorite Owen memories?  The stories about the ribs he'd pull are hilarious.  But as a fan--

    -Those first few promos as The Black Hart were awesome.  I thought for sure it was going to be HBK-Owen at WM 14 and Tyson-Austin.

    -The Slammys appearances, which may have been the only things entertaining on those shows.

    -The dedications to his "loving brother, Bret" were great.  His dedications and celebrations around this time period were actually kind of a precursor to Daniel Bryan's YES.

    -The return of the Blue Blazer. He may have been the first anti-anti-hero.  And then so many followed this same path afterwards, going overboard with preaching goodness to get a heel reaction--Kurt Angle, Right to Censor, SES Cm Punk... and of course, the Hurricane, who used the superhero gimmick

    -Definitely his matches.  I especially liked the ones in Canada or overseas where his mid-match bragging and taunting would be cheered wildly.

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  26. I never thought of it before but 94-95 Owen is a perfect comp for Daniel Bryan! WOO! YES!

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  27.  Unfortunately Vince is both :)

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  28. This was quite the compelling review. A+ and still more exciting than Raw.

     

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  29. I agree with all of that stuff and I do think it would be a rough position to be in as I'm sure everyone was in a state of shock.

    Part of me is willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but at the same time I think regardless of his intent that it was a disappointing and unfortunate decision for someone in his position to make. Even in a state of grief he should have recognized that he had larger concerns than just his own welfare as the guy in charge of the company.  He chose to stay the course.  Since he was likely in a state of shock, I doubt it's something he thought much about -- he just did it because that's what he always does and I do fault him for that, should that be the case.

    If you're a wrestling promoter, you should probably know enough about yourself to realize that your day-to-day instincts are geared towards running your business first -- so maybe while his intent was not to do something motivated by money, that's probably where the instincts he used to make that decision lie.

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  30. It's so hard to be in the frame of mind that Vince was in here, especially with such an unprecendented situation. I've always thought he should've stopped the show, personally, but I don't blame him for not doing it.


    He was damned if he stopped, damned if he didn't. 

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  31. I agree with your overall sentiment, that it was a fucked up situation and they absolutely made the wrong call, but Vince truly felt horrible that Owen died.

    But what motivation is there to continue on with the show if for no other reason than to give the fans "what they paid for" and avoid handing out refunds (costing you millions of dollars)? I have a really hard time getting into the headspace of someone who'd look at THAT situation and think the right move was to continue the show. I think it's naive to think the cost of shutting it down (and the war with WCW) didn't at least cross his mind. Cause again, what other possible reason is there to keep going?

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  32.  If your craft is to review wrestling shows for a collection of followers, you owe to them to review the controversial as well as the non. Nothing should be limited to your viewpoint if that's what draws people to this site. You don't get a reputation or an audience for skirting a line, you get an audience by stepping over that line from time to time.

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  33. Imagine if Owen didn't die and toiled away on the mid-card having awesome matches with guys like Edge and Angle and winning secondary titles. Then they decide to give him Benoit's spot in 2004. Owen defeats the two dicks who screwed his brother for the World title at WM20 in MSG. Owen and a returning Bret Hart reunite in the ring as the confetti falls. 

    FUCK!

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  34. Yeah, this is what I keep coming back to as well.  If he wasn't in his right mind, then I don't think he was the best person to make the decision. 

    If he was in his right mind and made a well thought out decision, then the logic trail that leads to "lets just keep going" is potentially littered with a lot of nastiness, because in the end there really isn't a good or pressing reason to continue the show.

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  35. All that good will Scott has built up over the years...flushed down the toilet.

    WHY SCOTT, WHY???

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  36. I don't think it's really controversial though, it's just his own personal choice.  I don't think he's too concerned about the potential loss of readers if he doesn't do the one show anyway and I certainly don't get why he 'owes' it to an audience that doesn't pay him.

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  37. You got me, hook, line, sinker.

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  38.  yeah Jarrett's interview on the Owen's tribute show was the hardest to watch.  I still remember him choking out the lines "there are very few true friends in the wrestling business and Owen was a true friend" in between choked tears. 

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  39. Him not talking about it is worse than talking about it. I understand that he may have already talked about it, but you can't pull this unless you plan on having a retrospective about the whole deal. It's almost a slap in the face to bait us like this on something that is close and personal to the wrestling community. This, to me, is classless and disrespectful to the death of Owen.

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  40. To those who want to pull the "no one knew what to do" card when asked about continuing the show, I go back to Bret's book when he said to Vince, "You would have stopped the show if it was Shane or Stephanie that died," and Vince had no answer.

    He was wrong.  Period.  He was wrong 10 minutes after the accident and he's wrong more than 10 years later.  There's no wiggle room on this one.  Asking performers who loved and respected Owen to work in the same ring that had blood stains and that had a spot the refs told them to avoid because he had broken the ring, is in a word, sick.

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  41. Worst named PPV ever. Although they couldn't have guessed that at the time of course.

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  42.  It's hard to say this because you aren't Vince. You have a product people have bought to see. You can't cut a show short because of an injury. It's not known if he was dead in the ring or not, despite claims for and against. NFL games do no stop for injury, nor do Dancing With the Stars or Survivor. People pay to see a product and you have to deliver it to the end. Having someone die as a result of something that happened on your show is terrible and I can only imagine how much harder the decision seems in the aftermath, but Vince made the right call. Owen would have wanted the show to continue.

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  43. While I respect your decision never to review this PPV, Scott, I have to ask the question: Why bring it up if you choose not to review it? Are you seeking someone else to rant on the show for this site? If os I would be more than willing. This show has historical significance in hindsight due to Owen's death. Also the WWF title changed hands.
    Out of respect for Owen who died 13 years ago yesterday I submit my name to do the "job". The question is are the younger or wrestling-world-less-travelled readers willing to read it? Thoughts?

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  44. Bait and switch.

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  45. I get where you're coming from, but you don't know what Owen would have wanted. For all you know, if Owen's friend had fallen to the floor he would have wanted the show to end, like I'm sure most — if not all — of the guys in the back wanted. Again, I know where you're coming from but don't put words in someone's mouth.

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  46. You must be a real treat at parties.

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  47.  How do you really review it though? It's not fair to critique the performances and match quality of guys who are working minutes/hours after one of their own died...in that same ring.

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  48. I don't get the opinion of those criticizing Scott for not reviewing it. Scott is under no obligation to review the show, and what's more, who the fuck cares about the show? A loving husband, father, and brother (as well as a phenomenal wrestling talent) plummeted to his death; does anybody care about how many stars Jeff Jarrett and Debra vs. Val Venis and Nicole Bass merits?

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  49. I just watched the part where he falls on youtube. I'm surprised how fast it all happened - it's a 10 minute clip, he falls about a minute into it, and by 9 minutes they're starting the next match. I can see why that would rub people the wrong way - it's like Owen Hart dies in one segment so you move onto the next.

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  50. Please, repeat that last sentence to Bret Hart then as well and, for that matter, all these fans who think they know what Vince is thinking and how the product is being ran.

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  51. Not cool, Zeus

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  52. And what about the wrestlers who continued wrestling? No blame for them? It's not like Vince put a gun(or a safety harness) to their heads.

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  53. Then don't give them ratings. Rating a match is almost always a stupid idea, in my opinion. You don't rate segments of a TV show nor do you rate acts of a movie. You rate it as a whole. Now, rating this show would be difficult, but sometimes you have to do the things that are difficult (writing wise and in life) in order to find the true spirit of your writing style.

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  54. I can see why Scott won't review this one, but not so much for the moral question of it. The fact is, it's a really hard thing to watch as an Owen fan, and furthermore, nothing that happened at this show besides Owen's death was of any consequence. I never saw this one but I read a recap of it once and from the gist of it, all the wrestlers just completely had the wind taken out of their sails. They didn't want to be out there, and there was no passion in it, so you're just reviewing a bunch of people going through the motions, and there's nothing really to say about that.

    I remember when I was younger and dumber I defended Vince going on with the show, saying that if an undercard boxer died during a show headlined by a Tyson fight, I'd be pretty pissed if I ordered it that I didn't get to see the main event. Now I look back and think how stupid that was A) because there wasn't much juice to the Austin/UT main event, storyline wise, anyway, and B) Owen wasn't just some midcarder who died, he was someone who'd been with the company for years, had been part of a legendary wrestling family, and was a main eventer or at least an upper-midcarder for quite a few years. He was stuck in midcard hell doing a stupid gimmick at the time but that doesn't mean he should have just been brushed off to the side. Absolutely the show should've been stopped, but in everyone's mind, it basically did.

    I didn't find Raw is Owen as offensive as some people did, however. People thought it was tacky & self serving but in the end it was better to pay tribute to Owen than to do like they did with Pillman, shoving a camera in his widow's face and then moving on to the next segment like he never existed.

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  55.  I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK.

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  56. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over_the_Edge_(1999)

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  57. IMITATION IS THE SINCEREST FORM OF FLATTERY.

    SO IS STICKING YOUR FACE IN BETWEEN THE OFFICE LADY'S BREASTS,

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  58. If you want to rail on Vince for something, rail on him for that interview with Pillman's wife. 1000x more offensive than anything he did concerning Owen.

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  59. IndyCar went through this almost exact same situation last year - last race of the year, ABC television, season title on the line - and they stopped the race when Dan Wheldon died.

    It still angers me they continued the show. I had a big group of friends in high school that would watch PPVs & Raw together each week. The Owen Hart tribute show was the last time we got together for the WWF. I didn't watch regularly again until Jan. 2000.

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  60. "C’mon, did you REALLY think was this happening?"

    Well, Bret returned to WWE and you started reviewing again. I figured anything was possible & never say never...

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  61. TNA sues WWE, claims it's interfering with TNA contracts and business practices

    http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/239651/TNA-Files-Lawsuit-Against-WWE,-Claims-Company-is-Stealing-Talent.htm

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  62. Somehow, you'll get over it. 

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  63. If a player died on an NFL field, I would bet you the house that the game would be stopped.  Don't be so ignorant.

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  64. The show must go on.  I'm a completely amateur performer, but unless the building is on goddamn fire you finish the show, and even then you finish it outside.

    Yes, Owen's death is tragic, but people have died onstage before.  It's tragic, but...the show must go on.

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  65. Obviously losing any wrestler or driver hurts, and I'm not going to call any one wrestler's or driver's life more valuable than another. But Owen Hart and Dan Wheldon especially pulled on the heart strings because each died almost directly as a result of their enthusiasm for their sport; their willingness to do almost anything that was asked of them if they thought it could make the product more entertaining for their fans.

    A lot of guys probably wouldn't agree to bounce around in a silly gimmick like the Blazer, to climb the rafters and to drop down with a quick-release harness. But Owen would. And a lot of drivers would be uneasy about starting in the back of the pack on a way-too-overcrowded high-banked oval for the purpose of a season-ending marketing gimmick. But Dan Wheldon did. Owen and Dan did those things with a smile because they loved what they did, thought it would make the show more fun for their fans (who they each earnestly seemed to care about), and, hey, danger is part of the life they each chose to lead.

    I'm a pretty huge IndyCar fan, but it's been difficult getting past Dan Wheldon's death and getting back into watching the product. It feels too much like Wheldon was sacrificed on the altar of pleasing the crowd. Owen felt similarly. You step back for a second and think, "What the hell is all this crazy stuff they're doing and we're watching? That's not how it's supposed to be. That's not wrestling. That's not racing."

    When a sport starts eating its young, maybe it's time to look elsewhere. That's how I felt in 1999 about wrestling and it's how I feel today about IndyCar. I imagine I'll come back, but for now, to watch makes me feel too complicit.

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  66. Depends. If he died right there on the spot, probably. But if he died away from the field like in the ER or locker room, I doubt it.

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  67. That would have been awesome. And it wouldn't make watching wrestlemania xx today so depressing. 

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  68. There's no re-rant because there's no original rant. Scott said once he had the show on a tape he never watched. 

    I've never understand why anyone would want a rant on this show in the first place. I've seen it done by other lesser reviewers, and what's the point? None of the matches are good or even historically significant. 

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  69. "It's tragic, but...the show must go on. "



    ... why?

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  70.  If Wes Welker got carried to the locker room and died there, the game would be stopped on the spot.  Look, we're guessing here, but there's just no way to continue.  As soon as the news hit the sidelines, it would be over.  Can you imagine Tom Brady trying to play with the thought that Welker had died?  And who would expect them to continue anyways?  I sure as hell wouldn't want them to.

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  71. NFL and the coaches do some shady shit. I guarantee you that they wouldn't tell the players until after the game.

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  72. Southern_DiscomfortMay 24, 2012 at 5:39 PM

     Posting as an Indy Car fan, I'd say the more apt comparison would be when they totally dropped the ball at Michigan about 13 years ago when those fans died. Not a driver, so not totally equal, but I was there and will never, ever forgive them for continuing that race.

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  73. True dat.  The difference though is there are 3rd party media at sporting events.

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  74. Another slick swerve by our sloppy fat, smarmy douche hero. I bet he has nipples the size of dinner plates. He lactates on the regular. Yet he still makes time to give us a good razzin'. Just a disgusting pig in a tap out shirt teaching us retarded autistic dummies a lesson. Life lessons for us all to cherish. 

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  75. I'm ok with folks that think "the show must go on" but I don't get why either.  It's not like they didn't break kayfabe on MNR.

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  76. But they haven't learned this lesson yet. They always think they can get away with shit but it constantly gets out eventually.

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  77. You just Thunder Gunned the shit out of us.

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  78. "nothing that happened at this show besides Owen's death was of any consequence."

    The WWF Championship changed hands!

    That wasn't even important back in 1999?

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  79. Chris Benoit was killing people during the show named "Vengeance"

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  80. He had no answer because he didn't want to rile up Bret Hart any further (this was a guy who had viciously assaulted him over the result of a fixed wrestling match, now confronting him over the death of his brother)

    I'm pretty sure that Vince actually would have gone on with the show if it was Shane or Stephanie that died.

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  81. During a Major League baseball game, Josh Hamilton unintentionally killed a fan, in front of his small son no less.  The game went on.

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  82. In fairness to Hamilton, the fan fell from his outfield seat trying to catch a ball.  Hamilton did not kill anyone.

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  83. I thought April Fool's day was last month, Scott.

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  84. Some guy walks into the theater and starts randomly shooting audience members, you still continue performing?

    And what if it happens really early in the show, and the cops get there before the end of the performance... do you ignore the cops' questions about what happened until you finish reciting your lines?

    I'm half kidding.

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  85. Then why bring it up?

    Scott's the one that put up the teaser.

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  86. I totally agree.

    If Scott doesn't want to review it, fine, but to use it to set-up a punchline would seem to contradict whatever moral high-ground he seems to be trying to take by not reviewing it in the first place.

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  87. For what it's worth, I can think of at least one other reason: They were trying to take everybody's mind off of what they had just witnessed.

    I mean, if they had stopped the show, they would have been telling everybody, including the young kids in the audience, "you just witnessed a man break his neck and die, have a safe drive home and be sure to talk about the horrific event the entire time". At least continuing the show kind of cushioned the blow.

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  88. While he may not have been the best person to make the decision, he's the boss. Who else is going to make it?

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  89. From my memory in '99 the title went Rock-Foley-Rock-Foley-Rock-Austin-Taker-Austin-Foley-HHH-Vince-HHH-Show for a total of 12 title changes and 13 champions.

    So no, a World title change wasn't important in 1999. If you missed one, wait 4 weeks.

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  90. He's not criminally responsible, but there's no question that, if he throws the ball higher, the fan doesn't fall to his dead.

    Regardless, blame is irrelevant.  A man fell to his death during a MLB game in front of everyone in attendance.  And the game went on.

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  91. Can we just move on here? I've been enjoying 2012 Scott Sez (as well as the 2011 application), and I'd like to continue to do so. Not discounting everyone's right to opinion, and heaven knows with this show there are many, but I'm ready to move on with Scott's reviews.

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  92. In some ways I think people would have reacted with more hostility if something like that happened, because I don't know how clear it was to the fans that the Owen Hart thing wasn't yet another crazy stunt / angle done by a wrestler.

    By the way, weren't the lights actually off when fell, so they could show the interview to the crowd on the Titan Tron?  I wonder if the lights had been up, if people would have reacted differently.

    Somebody dies right in the middle of the ring in front of a crowd of people whose attention is drawn to it though -- yeah I'd say I'd call it off in that case.  Regardless of what the promotion would do, I would personally leave though.  I wouldn't want to hang around for the rest of a show like that if there was any certainty of what I just saw.

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  93. Yeah there is a very weird feeling to it, especially after JR makes the announcement that Owen Hart has died.  Then they cut to a video package and it's back to business.  The whole thing is just bizarre.  I think the fact that the fall didn't happen on camera played a role in them not stopping the show -- if everyone had witnessed it live on TV, I think they would have thought twice about it.

    The only thing to ever stop Vince on PPV is a power-outage.

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  94. Why?  In a lot of cases.  Performing is a somewhat...mindless exercise.  Not that it doesn't take thought, but when you perform, or rather, when I and most people I've talked to perform you reach this zen like state.  You aren't thinking about dinner or relationship problems or whatever, you're thinking about the performance, you're thinking about your character and your story.  When you actually start performing in front of an audience you are no longer thinking about your character, as the Bruce Lee adage goes, you now feel it.

    In a similar vein, people expect a performance when they go to see a performance.  Death is already a deviation from the expected, stopping the performance is another deviation.  The performers are trying to keep things as normal as possible.  Yeah the crowd just saw a guy fall to his death, but they paid for a wrestling show goddammit, and we're going to wrestle!

    Also a lot of performers have hang-ups about missing performances (Look at Mick Foley), not performing because somebody died may seem a bit silly to performers (they're a bit eccentric usually).

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  95. It's not like more people were going to climb into the harness and fall.

    Yes your own life is always important.  But Redd Foxx's heart attack wasn't exactly contagious.

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  96.  how the hell do you know?  Let's not forget how many fans and even other wrestlers said bullshit about how Owen "lived" for the business and Bret and his true close friends like Jarrett and Foley said that was absolute bullshit.  But yeah, you supposedly know Owen would have wanted to show to go on. 

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  97. Yeah what was the deal with the teaser anyway Scott?  You get a bunch of requests again for the show?

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  98.  man this thread seems to have brought out the trolls in full force.

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  99. top ten reply.

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  100. I have this on VHS from taping the PPV on the night it aired, but have never watched it.  I'm working on converting my tapes to DVD, so I imagine I'll have to get to this one sooner or later. 

    As far as not cancelling the rest of the show -- the whole "show must go on" stuff is code for the WWF didn't want to
    refund everyone their PPV money.  If this happened on Raw, the show damn
    sure wouldn't have gone on.

    But, I'm sure things were so hectic backstage that they probably really didn't know what to do, so the knee-jerk reaction probably was just to keep going and figure it out later.  If I remember correctly, most everyone kind of knew that he was dead in the ring, but they rushed him off to the hospital and the official news came down an hour or so later (though they had to know backstage earlier, since I'm sure they notified the family before announcing it on live TV).

    Since we didn't see anything that was going on at the time when the
    accident occurred, it never crossed any of our minds watching the PPV
    that he had died.  Even though I've only seen it once, I remember it pretty clearly -- we were chatting amongst ourselves, then someone noticed that JR was talking on camera for a long time, so we listened up at that point.  I think we all kind of figured he was badly injured.  Then when JR announced that he died later on, it was a huge punch in the gut and it took all of us out of the show.  That's probably when it should've been cancelled.

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  101. Hear hear!  What do we have left on the roster anyways for May?

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  102. Even that didn't stop them. At Beware of Dog they just wrestled in the dark.

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  103. That's right!  I forgot about that, I was thinking they ended the show when the PPV feed went out.

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  104. You're right. I can't believe I forgot about that! That was SLEAZY.

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  105. Wait, what? Fans died at an Indycar race? How?

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  106.  What he said. In the end, does anyone remember that title change? I can't remember if Taker won it from Austin or vice versa.

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  107. Did he actually die right there on field, or later at a hospital? Either way, that was just a freak accident, Hamilton's not responsible. 

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  108.  See I feel like that's a petty argument when it comes to something as basically inconsequential as a piece of entertainment. I love wrestling and other forms of live entertainment but things happen that are justifiable in cancelling it. If I paid for Kings of Leon tickets and didn't get the full show because a bird shit in Jared Followill's mouth? Yeah, I'm probably going to be pissed about that. If I was at the Damageplan show where Dimebag was murdered? I'm not gonna be so concerned that the set was cut short. A person died, me getting my full money's worth isn't really that essential.

    I know I pull the "my job" card a lot around here, but at my job we've had a few of our clients die (at home, usually, although before my time some actually died at the day-hab). In that case, we have to go on. We can't send everyone home, we can't stop work for the whole day to mourn, and in fact we do have to act like nothing happened. Some of our clients aren't going to handle that kind of thing well and it could trigger major behaviors. So all of us staff have to be strict, keep focused on work, and not allow anyone to talk about it or even stay in the room if they're crying or something. Even when one girl's sister died, who she barely knew and the rest of the room wouldn't have known, we had to tell her not to talk about it or dwell on it, because it would have caused a meltdown which would have set everyone else off. That fucking SUCKS. It's the shittiest feeling in the world to look someone in the eye and tell them that even though someone they knew and maybe saw every day died, they have to keep right on working like nothing happened. The few times it's happened, I've had a hard time looking at myself in the mirror, because I know it's not easy to not only have to deal with that kind of grief, but to not be able to express it and have to focus on work. And that's all just to avoid the kind of serious maladaptive behaviors that could cause someone to hurt themselves or others. I'd really find it hard to have to try and put someone in the same position over a B-show pay per view, and I'd hope Vince knows that feeling.

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  109. Wait, that actually was on camera?

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  110. Southern_DiscomfortMay 24, 2012 at 9:02 PM

    Michigan in like...98 I think? Adrian Fernandez broadsided the wall and his tire went over the catch fence into the section next to us in turn four. Killed two, maybe three people and injured a bunch more. They just ran it like a normal caution, then started the damn race again while rescuers were still in the section. I remember it getting evacuated and just having blood all over the bleachers.

    Needless to say, I didn't watch racing again for a long time after that.

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  111. I remember watching this show live with a bunch of friends during my junior year in high school. We weren't really sure how to react, I remember a lot of guys making sick jokes etc, but I was kind of in shock since Owen was a favorite of mine when he was a heel but I kind of thought he was crap when he turned face and then teamed with mr.suck jj himself, but damn it was an awful feeling.

    I'm not sure they should have stopped the show though, because maybe the guys wanted to go perform for Owen. If vince only kept it going for fear of a refund that's quite sleazy but isnt there a chance the other guys were like hey, let's do it for Owen?

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  112. Oh right, because you were Owen Hart's best friend right? You know exactly what Owen wanted.

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  113. Scott, hope you're reading this.

    Looks like that idiot Elvylanda found his way back or should I say "Thunder Gunned" or "Kelly Hnidy" or "SKeith" or "larry" or any of the other bogus names that troll has created to try to worm his way back onto a site that he's permanently banned from due to his own stupidity. It's so pathetic on so many levels.

    Seriously Elvy, follow your own advice.
    Get a fucking life.

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  114. My life is 100% better for having you on this blog.  Never change.

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  115. It happened once, and the game wasn't stopped.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Hughes

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  116. Wow, that is really messed up.
    I completely agree, they should have stopped the race. And Vince McMahon should have stopped the PPV after Owen died.

    I remember watching the show that night and after JR announced that Owen died, I turned the TV off immediately. I just couldn't compose myself to watch the rest of the show after what had just happened.

    And still to this day, I have never seen the remainder of the show and I never will.

    But reading about it after the fact, I thought it was in even worse taste to have a character named The Undertaker still win the main event even after one of the best wrestlers to have ever existed had just died. If ever there was a time to change a finish on the fly, that was it.

    Although obviously the much better solution would have been to stop the show and not have the match in the first place.

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  117. No, the fall is not actually on camera. He falls while there's a graphic up on the screen and then JR talks about something terrible happening and emphasizes that "this is not part of the entertainment. This is real life." The camera stays on JR or the crowd the whole time.

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  118. Agreed. The entire blog is bringing the thunder tonight...pun very much intended.

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  119.  Yeah, I knew about this incident; but with the way the NFL and even the NHL has gotten over concussions and protecting players and the such, I would think things have changed in 40 years.  It's simply not important enough to finish the game. 

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  120. The NFL point is an excellent one. Players are carted off the field, unable to move their legs or unconscious regularly in the NFL. The game always resumes. Nobody in the stadium knows if they're okay but the game goes on. Hank Gathers collapsed and died during a college basketball game and it was completed. We have the example of the Indy Car fans above and the Josh Hamilton incident below. Both games went on. Vince McMahon is not the only who has made this decision. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it's hardly unique to the WWF.

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  121. Wow, that's pretty fucked up. Not as bad as the 55 Le Mans incident though.

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  122. Great White didn't finish the show outside.

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  123. What's your job?

    And not making light of the Dimebag situation, but the scenario triggered an Airplane! moment for me, where someone would get on stage and say, "And by the way, does anyone know how to play guitar?"

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  124. One thing that came to mind is the how in the Benoit case, the show was canceled, but for Eddie the show went on.  Why do you think the show was canceled for Benoit but not for Eddie? 

    Wasn't RAW being taped that night actually (on a Sunday for some reason) when Eddie died?  I might have the timeline mixed up, though.  The reason I mention that is b/c for Pillman, Owen and Eddie (assuming I'm right about Eddie), they already had a show in place to fill up the time, whereas with Benoit, the only show they had in place was centered around a wake for the VKM character, which would have hit too close to home.

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  125. Which is precisely why we need a record of that event for posterity!

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  126. That's different.  They were out of pyro.

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  127. I may not quite be understanding what you've written, but I'm guessing it is because they knew pretty quickly (even if the public didn't) that Benoit was the prime suspect in a double homicide, given that it was apparent that he'd committed suicide.

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  128. I ENJOY YOUR WORK, KEITH. REALLY ENJOYED TRIBUTES II.

    KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, WE'LL KEEP SENDING YOU STUFF TO REVIEW.

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  129. I hope you're some kind of genius who can come up with this kind of response quickly and effortlessly. Otherwise, it's kind of sad to think of you wasting precious time and brain cells to come up with something so useless. 

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  130. Out of all the times I've disagreed with your opinions, this was the one time I actually questioned your decision, until I opened the link. Anyway, all I seem to remember about this show is it having an Austin/Undertaker main event that might have been considered "good" if one was viewing it in a vacuum. 

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  131.  hey, Pugs. This might be a dumb question, but are you a Pug owner?

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  132.  I remember the PPV was on, and I was shaving. Don't ask me why I felt that now was the time, but I did. Anyways, my mom came into the bathroom all rushed like to tell me something had happened to Owen.

    I didn't believe it. I kept telling her that it wasn't real.

    Raw is Owen is still one of, if not the saddest thing I've ever witnessed. You know, all personal things aside. Goddamn, I was bawling. It's weird, you know. It's like Owen is the only guy that this could happen to, that no one would ever joke about, you know? If it happened to Jarrett, or Venis, or even Stone Cold, there would be jokes, 13 years later. But not Owen. No one jokes about it. Or if they do, well, they can answer to Scott Hall.

    One of two people too good for this business died because of it...

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  133. If you don't want to review the show, then fine.  Don't review the show.  But I don't see why people have to be so high and mighty towards people that do want to read a review of it.

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  134.  I work in a day-hab for adults with developmental disabilities.

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  135.  But it is important. The game must be completed. There has to be a winner or loser or a tie game. You have a season or playoffs to finish. They could stop and pick it back up another day, but that would ruin the spirit of the game and the dynamic of it.

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  136. There you go putting words into people's mouths. Where's that one guy to tell you off like he did me?

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  137.  Detective Dipshit is on the case! Unfortunately you're wrong. Which shouldn't be a surprise given your low level of intelligence. Sleep it off, dingus.

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  138. Wow, apparently you mistakenly went to the wrong site. See, this is a troll-free site. 411mania is >THAT way, so go there and get back to trolling with Wes Kirk and the rest of the losers there. I would comment further, but with considering your asinine insults at Scott, you're obviously going to be banned here so there's no need for you to keep digging your own grave, troll.

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  139.  Wes Kirk hasn't written for 411mania in many, many months. And his entire body of work was a big gimmick, if you couldn't tell.

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