I know we're Brock-obsessed, but how lame is/was Chris Jericho's latest run? Everyone was pretty excited when showed up and did his "rile the crowd up too long & leave" bit. Then he promised to change the world, or whatever. But once he didn't win the Royal Rumble, it's like his heat evaporated. The feud with CM Punk was a relative dud. Their matches were good but the WrestleMania match started out with crickets chirping.
I just thought it was a huge waste of Chris Jericho. The run certainly didn't do CM Punk any favors either.
It was pretty lame. The intro videos led to nothing, the Rumble win got aborted, and they started the CM Drunk storyline a week before Wrestlemania, when it would have seemed more logical to have Jericho lose and then do the psych warfare thing to get a rematch. Instead he torments the babyface, babyface wins clean, and then they have a rematch just because. Plus they just didn't have the main event chemistry together that people thought they would. I'd call it a good diversion for Punk and it led to a good brawl at the PPV, but it's nothing we're gonna be remembering years from now, and I was glad to see it done with after Extreme Rules.
This had Savage/Flair from 1992 written all over it. Thrown together at the last minute with a storyline tacked on for no good reason. Only here there was 6 weeks of television fleshing out the story to a ridiculous degree.
ReplyDeleteThe matches were solid. I'd watch them again.
True, but who among us doesn't remember "Savage, she was mine before she was yours!" That was a typical wrestling storyline, stupid but fun. I wish they would have stuck with the best in the world thing, at least just for the Mania match. Jericho also needed to win either the Rumble or at Elim Chamber.
ReplyDeleteI think now is the time we can honestly say with 100% certainty, that while the wrestlers themselves can achieve things, WWE as a whole can't do anything right. I think we're literally looking at WCW's final run revisted, but with better wrestlers (and w/o any corporate execs to cut the funding).
ReplyDeleteThe thing that killed it for me, was that they were building the match as a battle for find out who the true "best in the world" is. But when has Jericho ever been considered the best in the world? They've never portrayed him as being a top guy, he was a guy who thought he was a top guy and said he was a top guy and either got soundly beaten in big matches or had to cheat his hole off to win them. That's why winning the Rumble was so important. It's a big, and recent, accomplishment that he can use to build to the Punk match. Hell, have him come out and say that he came back specifically to get Punk, and he will win the Rumble to make it happen. Now he's backing up his promises. As it turned out, it's the same as his return in 2007 - he comes back specifically to win the title, and then he doesn't. I know in this case he was coming back just to put Punk over, but he announces that he returned to win the Rumble. He loses. Then attacks Punk. Goes into Elimination Chamber, gets kicked in the head and taken out of the match. And then they wonder why he doesn't look like a contender going into Wrestlemania.
ReplyDeleteIt's just typical of how they've always booked Jericho - he's a top guy when they want you to think he's one but they really don't want you to think he is any other time.
I remember when Jericho first came back after that 2 year absence.....he was promising all these big things about revolutionizing wrestling..blah blah blah.........and came back doing the same crap he did from '99 to 2001 and nobody cared. Fortunately, he switched things up a bit....and, if nothing else, at least saying "idiots and psycophants" every other sentence was new.
ReplyDeleteI think I stopped taking it seriously when Jericho slipped on the booze he was pouring over Punk. And when Punk botched the alphabet. And who can forget their KILLER exchange in London?
ReplyDeleteJericho: "You went to this pub to drink alcohol."
Punk: "No, I was merely visiting a friend."
Jericho: "Goodbye."
Weren't they playing off of Jericho's character in 2008, when he would say he was the Best in the World??
ReplyDeleteThey had one really good face-to-face segment when Jericho accused Punk of stealing his gimmick, basically, that I thought should've been the whole feud - oldschool, 2 guys trying to one-up each other.
Then they did CM Drunk. Then they added the bizarre stipulation to the WM match. And everything fizzled.
Very disappointing. Especially the alcoholism business, particularly because I fully expect them to try that story for real someday with Punk. And I fully expect it to be cringe-worthy and terrible when they do.
ReplyDeleteEverything sucks!!!
ReplyDeleteThey only had two awesome matches, and Punk has now beaten a top guy 2 months in a row. Done absolutely nothing.
Strangely, I thought the build towards WrestleMania was the strongest they ever made Jericho look (and that says something also). He never jobbed, he won clean, and even when he did "lose" it was in strong fashion. He was runner up in the Royal Rumble and eliminated Orton. In the Chamber, he was the only person who didn't get pinned or eliminated. He was removed from the match. I agree with your sentiment, but it struck me that I had always viewed his pre-Mania push as relatively strong.
ReplyDeleteA little harsh. People slip on liquids. It happens. And he didn't botch the alphabet....he mixed up two letters while saying it backwards.
ReplyDeleteI think you have missed the point of Jericho's character. He is delusional, always has been. He started calling himself the Best in the World, he thinks everyone is stealing from him, even though the things he claims he invented are things everyone does.
ReplyDeleteJericho is a heel, heels usually end up on the losing side of things, he was playing his character and playing it very well.
The reason for me this feud didn't work wasn't the match quality because I thought both matches were pretty damn good, it was the fact Jericho was made to look like a total Punk (pardon the pun) throughout... he lost at E.C by being KO'd via Punk, he lost at WM clean and he lost E.Rules clean... it was really a one sided affair. I think Jericho should of won at E.C at least. The babyface CHASING the belt is always far more interesting than the other way round... it seemed to be Jericho trying to prove he was on Punks level, whilst the whole idea it should of been Punk trying to question himself and then prove he was on Jericho's level, that would of elevated him further, and stopped Jericho looking like an incompetent idiot.
ReplyDeleteIn the end all of us are marks really. People think the Jericho run has sucked because he lost the feud to Punk. People think Brock is a failure after one month because he lost to Cena.
ReplyDeleteThis angle failed for one reason and one reason only.
ReplyDeleteNo Jericho getting sprayed with Pepsi from a Pepsi truck. After all the alcohol Jericho poured on Punk, it would have made sense for Punk to spray Jericho down with his favorite drink.
I think peoples' expectations for what Jericho could do for Punk were too high. I think they looked at it almost like a Foley-HHH/Orton situation.
ReplyDeleteJericho isn't the type of person who can "make" a guy. HHH, Taker, Cena, Rock, and Brock are pretty much the only guys who are capable of bringing Punk to the next level. I'm not sure about Austin, but in theory that might work.
Yeah, the 2 matches were great, we had some cool segments, I enjoyed this feud but was ready for it to end. This doesn't have the "what coulda been" feel for me.
Kind of tough when Jericho is brought back to win the Royal Rumble...and then doesn't win the Royal Rumble.
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to point out that it seems like the general consensus here seems to be that the "CM Drunk" angle was unnecessary and lame. And yet to our knowledge this was a storyline crafted by the 2 wreslters themselves. We shit on Vince/Steph/HHH all the time when there are bad ideas, and give *all* the credit to the performers when stuff is good (Summer of Punk, Foley/Orton, HBK/Jericho, etc).
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to point out that even a couple of guys with great minds for the business can misfire.
I didn't mind the CM Drunk stuff at all, but I agree it wasn't necessary prior to Wrestlemania. Jericho comes back to target Punk, Jericho wins the Royal Rumble, Punk retains at Elimination Chamber, and now it's a "who's the best?" match at Wrestlemania for the title. Jericho loses, so he makes it personal to get another shot at Punk. It felt like a couple of weeks before Wrestlemania they felt they had to add more heat to the match (possibly because they didn't build Jericho up outside of beating Kofi and promos about how good he thinks he is) and threw the drunk stuff in there. I'm not sure why so many people didn't like it, part of Punk's character is that he's Straight Edge, and Jericho announcing Punk's family secrets both pisses Punk off and gives background into why he is how he is. It's silly things like sobriety tests in the middle of the ring on Raw where it goes wrong.
ReplyDeleteWhere do I plop my money?
ReplyDeleteJericho was brought in just to put over CM Punk, that's all. Personally I'm curious as to what he's going to do until he leaves again in July. I'd like to see him put over some new guys like Ziggler or even Ryback.
ReplyDeleteIf they had 2 awesome matches, I wouldnt have emailed Scott. But they didn't. They had 2 good matches, and I really didn't like their WrestleMania match because it started sooooo slooooowly.
ReplyDeleteYeah we're still not there yet. This Punk/Jericho thing, even if you didn't like it, was nowhere near as bad as the awful shit WCW gave us in their dying days.
ReplyDeleteI think that would have made a world of difference. He could have built up a rivalry with Punk via promos and not have to be in the Chamber match. Sheamus could have won his shot at Bryan by winning the Smackdown Chamber, which sadly would be more impressive than how he won the Rumble if he was booked really strong. Of course, while we're fantasy booking, Bryan and Sheamus could have stolen the show at Wrestlemania and the Bella Twins could have a cut a promo about how desirable I am on their way out of the company, too.
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping they're saving that for the Punk/Austin feud that will totally happen, for sure. But yeah, that was a huge missed opportunity.
ReplyDeleteI can see where you're coming from, but I'm glad Punk's getting a long run with the belt, especially since Jericho's expected to be gone soon and we're getting D Bry as the next challenger. I do wish they hadn't done that damn field sobriety test last week and made Jericho look like a total moron, but other than that I can even live with the storyline.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, had Jericho won, they could have done a riff on the Summer of Punk with Jericho threatening to leave with the belt as one last insult to Punk before losing on his way out. That might have been fun.
I enjoyed the sobriety test, you gotta have fun stuff like that in wrestling and if it's not done all the time and is well executed (which this one was outside of the alphabet error) I'm totally cool with it. Although full disclosure, I also enjoyed the Mr. America "lie-detector" segment back in 03 so maybe my opinion shouldn't count.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, I actually liked the "CM Drunk" stuff cause (and I don't remember who said it but it was on this blog) it gave us an added dimension to babyface Punk outside of "he's a cheeky bastard who says outrageous things". Plus I never bought into the "Best in the World" stuff cause I never considered Jericho to BE the BitW. I know it was just a catchphrase but it felt awkward next to a match that was partially built on the idea of Rock being considered the Greatest of All-Time.
I think I'd prefer you not plop anything, especially your money. But if you have to, clean up after yourself.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the last days of WCW always felt like the definition of "too little, too late" to me, given how they were putting over young guys and building Steiner.
ReplyDeleteI think people are overestimating whatever impact they thought Jericho's rub would make for Punk. I like Jericho a lot, think he's a great worker and a pretty reliable one but...he's not Shawn Michaels, he's not Triple H, he's not Cena, he's not someone that is going to elevate talent to a super-stardom level by losing to them.
ReplyDeletePunk isn't a bigger star as a result, he isn't a smaller star either. He's a champion that beat a quality challenger but it wasn't a life-changing result.
Agree entirely.
ReplyDeleteBeen saying for months that Punk needs to start inhabiting the same TV space as the legends you mentioned if he's to truly make it to the top.
Much as I like Jericho he was always a second or third rung champ. Punks probably already passed that level so there really wasn't that much rub to give
lol, true dat. I meant plop down, woops.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see if he could help Zack Ryder recover from the last few months of his life by putting him over on the way out the door, but that's probably not going to happen. Maybe he could help Sheamus establish himself? If nothing else, I wouldn't mind seeing them have a PPV title match given how good their sequence at the end of the Rumble was.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think the idea was for Punk to feud with someone established who could give him a rub and have him prove himself. The problem is that in the months that they pushed him they already made him seem better than Jericho. I love Jericho, but character wise, he's a guy who can trade the IC title with midcarders, get his ass kicked by main eventers or occasionally cheat his way to a victory/title that he'll lose shortly afterwards.
ReplyDeleteI could care less if a McMahon not named HHH is never on TV again, but I would've loved to have seen Stephanie back Jericho's cause, especially after she was accosted by CM Punk.
ReplyDeleteI mean, yes, HHH got the revenge there, but if she champions the return of Jericho, and reforms an alliance with him to take down Punk in the name of her father, then you've got an interesting dynamic to work with.
Again, though...very happy to have not seen a McMahon in an important capacity for some time on WWE TV.
^ Basically this.
ReplyDeleteYou know who Jericho is? He's basically Edge. A main-event type guy who's won some titles......and even pinned some big names along the way.....but clearly not someone you are going to build a company around.
Jericho sure did wrestle Kofi Kingston a lot during this run.
ReplyDeleteThe match were good, but the feud ended up being a little lackluster because the WWE didn't put much into it.
ReplyDeleteJericho made his return, lost the Rumble, lost the Elimination Chamber, lost at WM then lost at Extreme Rules. Not exactly the best way to build a challenger.
It also didn't help that Cena vs Rock, UT vs HHH and Cena vs Brock pushed Jericho and CM Punk's feud into the mid card.
Still, the matches were really good.
I liked the idea just fine, I just thought that it was lost in execution on several occasions. Some, like the liquor bottle busting before it even hits Punk, were accidental. Some, like pouring approximately 10,000 (or like...four, or whatever) beers on Punk in the middle of the ring were good ideas that just dragged on for far longer than they needed to.
ReplyDeleteI had heard Jericho and Punk themselves were upset over the aborted Rumble win and then the alcoholism storyline. But the matches were very good, especially WrestleMania, which got short-changed because it was sandwiched between two equally tremendous (or better) matches in HITC and Rock-Cena.
ReplyDeleteNot necessarily. This was actually the first time I've ever cheered against Jericho that I can remember.
ReplyDeleteI think everything could've worked if WWE didn't make 3 key mistakes:
ReplyDelete1) Not having Jericho win the Rumble. With him coming in going after Punk and talking himself up to a ridiculous degree, a Rumble win not only bolsters his claims but EARNS him the title shot.
2) Starting the drunk storyline before Wrestlemania. Like Scott said, that should've been the setup for a rematch with Punk demanding one to get his revenge.
3) Adding the Wrestlemania stipulation. It didn't play into the finish and wasn't really needed, especially if you push the drunk storyline back.
Win the Rumble, challenge Punk based on "Who's the best in the world?", lose, start drunk storyline, then either have a regular match with the Wrestlemania DQ stipulation or go straight to the street fight. The course they took made Jericho look like a chump at every step. Which is really par for the course.
That's like saying it wasn't a botch when Sin Cara fell off the top rope, he was just attempting an aerial maneuver in the wrong direction. A botch is a botch.
ReplyDeleteThe thing with that is that it'd probably have to close the show, like the beer truck and milk truck did (as best as I can remember), and unfortunately, they've never been in that slot with this feud and with all the other things going on, they probably don't think it's worthy of closing a show. And they can't really do it in the middle of the show and have the ring all sticky and gross with dried-on Pepsi.
ReplyDeleteYou never know, Jericho's a Ryder fan. He let Zack write the foreword to his last book back before the YouTube show even started, I think. Jericho's like the Hipster Broski: He liked Ryder before it was cool.
ReplyDeleteI will be on here crying if Jericho puts over Zack freaking Ryder.
ReplyDeleteI liked the Mr. America lie detector segment too, if only because it reminded me of that scene in "The Simpsons" when Moe is taking one.
ReplyDeleteThis..er...
ReplyDeleteBeating him (jericho) means nothing cuz Jericho has been treated as a step lower than the big draws for his career. I for one, never cares that he goes away. Cuz he does nothing for me as a "main event" guy. If he was treated as the upper midcard /semi main guy he has been and not this former world champion, then id be more for him, but Chris Jericho: main eventer does nothing for me.
If they would of shot him to the top in 99-00 like everyone wanted, id be more enthralled with him... cuz thats when i liked him but they missed the boat (Not his fault) and he has been stuck (in my eyes) as not a top guy. sucks cuz i was very much into him between 98-00. once he got the shaft by HHH, i knew to stop backing him.
Jerichos not a top guy. He has the liberty of being "famous" outside of wrestling through other ventures and that mainstream publicity (potential) is what makes him perceived as a top guy.
ReplyDeleteBooking of Jericho would show that he isnt a top guy.
And in that case they sort of misused Jericho. Would he have been better served coming in as a face and working a program with...say a Ziggler or Cody to help elevate him or coming in and working with Kofi or something (and not beating him every single time).
ReplyDeleteThere are guys on the roster that could have been enhanced by working with him or secondary titles that could have been enhanced with him fighting for them but the WWE champion and championship isn't one of them.
Still he was better than Del Rio, although Punk and Del Rio had a couple of kick-ass matches in the past.
I'm fine with that - they have fantastic chemistry together.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that I think gets kind of overlooked is that Punk and Jericho started feuding before the "Elimination Chamber" PPV - the reason that this angle feels like it's been going on for so long with no real progress is because it HAS gone on for a long time with no real progress.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I think Jericho shouldn't have returned until AFTER "Royal Rumble"; let Sheamus win the Rumble, so that it seems more natural for him to go after Bryan, instead of it feeling like something that didn't have a lot of thought put into it. Then, instead of having Punk defending the title in the Chamber, you make the EC a #1-contendor match for Punk's title (Punk would have a separate 1-on-1 match that night), with Jericho winning that. This way, you give Jericho a big win to kick-off his feud with Punk, where he can cite having just come back from a hiatus to instantly main-event WM as an example of how he is truly "The Best in the World".
Bringing Jericho back early, combined with starting his feud with Punk too early, combined with four straight PPV losses, is not exactly the best way book him, either for his own sake, or for the sake of putting Punk over.
The turnaround in WCW towards to the end makes me sad Bischoff didn't buy it.
ReplyDeleteIt was all downhill from the point where HHH & Steph decided to cancel Jericho's well-deserved and long-overdue Rumble win to give it to his workout buddy instead. 13 bleepin' years and HHH STILL can't let Jericho have a moment.
ReplyDeleteNo, there just hasn't been anything particularly interesting about Jericho during this run. I'm not sure what exactly has been missing, but as someone who has always found him extremely entertaining, this latest return has been quite the disappointment.
ReplyDeletewill the "Jericho was planned to win the Rumble" ever stop? it was a RUMOR! nobody here knows for a fact that he was really the guy they had planned "all along" to win it.
ReplyDeletePunk drowning Austin in Pepsi would be epic.
ReplyDeleteI assume you're referring to my CM Punk comment, but you're sorta making my point. What you mentioned IS a botch. If Jeff Hardy did a Swantom off of the top of a ladder, but momentarily slipped on one rung, I wouldn't consider that a botch. It was a slip up.
ReplyDeleteThen Kurt Angle would get on Twitter ranting about how he was the first to drown Austin in a beverage.
ReplyDeleteNow THIS is the main event they should be running at OTL. No disrespect to Daniel Bryan.
ReplyDelete