Just wanted to point out that it seems like the general consensus here seems to be that the "CM Drunk" angle was unnecessary and lame. And yet to our knowledge this was a storyline crafted by the 2 wreslters themselves. We shit on Vince/Steph/HHH all the time when there are bad ideas, and give *all* the credit to the performers when stuff is good (Summer of Punk, Foley/Orton, HBK/Jericho, etc).
Just wanted to point out that even a couple of guys with great minds for the business can misfire.
This leads me to a rant I’ve been meaning to get into for a while now, specifically the idea of straight edge as a babyface trait. Like, for me, another major problem with the Jericho feud was that lots of people related to Jericho and not Punk. Straight Edge, while admirable at times, is an actual lifestyle choice, not some sort of handicap or genetic defect like MS or cheering for the Calgary Flames. Punk’s not an alcoholic, he only chooses not to drink because it’s his thing, just like Daniel Bryan chooses not to eat meat. Like, what’s the consequences if Punk is suddenly forced to drink some whiskey? Nothing, really. It’s just a drink. Lots of people drink in moderation without suddenly becoming raging alcoholics, just like lots of people watch TV in moderation without becoming couch potatoes. Yeah, the lack of drugs is something that should be celebrated, but a lot of the straight edge hardcores also eschew promiscuous sex, for example, and god knows Punk overlooks that particular facet of his own beliefs. In fact, the heel character Punk had when he was pushing the Straight Edge Society on everyone is a lot closer to the pretentious attitude that the straight edge guys seem to put forth outside of WWE’s bubble. I guess I’m saying that Punk preaching no booze is a lot less cool than Jericho being a rock star and having wacky adventures while drunk off his ass. And a lot of fans feel the same way, which is something that hurt the buildup, I’m sure.
Steroids would have been the better focal point for the angle, but for obvious reasons they can't do that.
ReplyDeleteI didn't think the story was needed. Having said that, I do believe that it would be an interesting story to go into if there was nothing else to base the feud off of. They could have easily gone with (as I believe has been mentioned on the blog before) "I'm the best wrestler." "No I am!" and tried to outwrestle each other. I mean JBL had a similar feud with Punk, though not as in depth, but he was being a bully about drinking.
ReplyDeleteNow as someone who doesn't do drugs and chose not to drink at one time, I could relate to Punk more than Jericho. I have had coworkers get on my case about not partaking in any of that, whether thinking it'd be hilarious if they could get me to do it, or just making me feel uncomfortable.
Add to that, that when I was a kid, my dad loved to drink, and he would come home drunk and act stupid. I never wanted to be like that, and regardless of whether it was just part of the story or not, I felt I could relate to Punk slightly in terms of our fathers.
But I could just be in the minority :)
I always thought it was awkward when Punk used to come out and JBL or whoever on commentary would be like "Oh, this guy is so boring. He doesn't drink, he doesn't do drugs..." Like, really? That's something you want even a heel commentator picking on? I was waiting for Chris Masters or someone to come out and hear "Oh, I love this guy, he's always got the best shit in the locker room."
ReplyDeleteI have to agree that the 'Straight Edge' facet of Punk is admirable, but dull. I find the 'really good but under-appreciated underdog' element of his character to be far more interesting and identifiable with.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Helen Lovejoy here, but seriously Scott.
ReplyDeleteTHINK OF THE CHILDREN.
Kids LOVE CM Punk, and I saw it first hand sitting 12 rows back at Extreme Rules. They wear his stuff, they do his hand gestures, and you know what? I bet it makes parents feel good to know their kid loves a Wrestler who doesn't drink or do drugs.
Some hardliner straight edge guys don't even drink caffeine, although I think at times Punk would use Caffeine Free Pepsi in his promos. I know I've seen him drink the regular stuff though.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I've read, Punk gets really irritated when people push a lot of this idea that him being sXe means he can't ever let the slightest drop of alcohol cross his lips or anything. I'd wager that at least once in life Punk has had a sip of champagne or a glass of wine with dinner. I remember a LiveJournal chat way back in the day where he got really pissed when everyone kept coming up to him with stupid "if someone had a gun to your head..." scenarios where he'd have to choose between drinking a beer and, like, killing a baby or something. It's not about being a virgin from alcohol or whatever, it's just about choosing not to do it.
And, partially, belonging to the straight edge punk community. I knew a LOT of sXe kids in high school, to the degree where we had house parties with like 100 kids there and when the cops busted them they were amazed that there wasn't any booze on the premises. Most of those kids were just responding to the pressure from a lot of other people to experiment with drugs & alcohol, but since you sound like a pussy if you "just say no", it's easier to claim allegiance to the Straight Edge movement and get standoffish about it. I'm betting just about none of those kids are still sXe now that we're all reasonable adults, because there's less societal pressure and because it's a different thing to have a few social drinks with friends than to be scamming beers outside 7-Eleven or smoking joints by someone's pool (it was Florida, we didn't have basements).
Of course there's always that rumor that Punk was caught doing coke off of Becky Bayless's tits, but that was probably just sour grapes by someone jealous of his success. Although that sounds like a Bucket List category for me.
If the alleged CM Punk/Austin thing goes through for Mania next year I'm all for them using Punk's SE gimmick again but this time as a heel. Not like his SES days mind you but just the fact that when Austin was on the rise in 97/98 he was drinking beer constantly on national TV. Guess what Punk was dealing with at the same time? Frankly I'd be shocked if it doesn't happen that way.
ReplyDeleteI remember back sometime in the mid 90's, TIME did a profile on the various cliques teens fell into, because they love nothing more than pigeonholing broad demographic groups. The kid they profiled that was Straight Edge basically just talked about how much he liked to fight, and how if you even lit a cigarette in his presence he would break your fingers. And I think for the longest time that was basically the general perception of straight edgers; basically anti-alcohol skinheads. I might have had a point when I started typing this but I forget. In summary, Randy Orton is really overrated.
ReplyDeleteI had similar experiences with straightedge kids growing up. I grew up with a big hardcore punk/metal scene in which straightedge was one of the bigger fads. Basically a bunch of bandwagoners, like the kids who only wore designer clothing or the skaters, or whatever trendy highschool group. They grew up and grew out of it.
ReplyDeleteI'll state that the Punk/Jericho angle was simply lame as opposed to business-killing like most of the other angles "creative" thinks up that usually has this blog up in arms.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure the issue was necessarily Punk's straight edge lifestyle, but just the fact that Jericho was being such a dick about it and bringing up Punk's family history. I mean, the angle was never about Punk actually being tempted to abandon being straight-edge. Like, when Jericho was attacking Punk with the bottle and pouring booze on his unconscious body in the ring....even if it's the most beer-loving face in the world, that's still a humiliating act and one worthy of wanting revenge.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a very admirable trait to push, it just wasn't a great storyline focus in this case. The anti-drug message is the one they really should be hammering on, but then you get stuff like the argument with HHH where Punk wasn't actually allowed to raise any of the points about steroids and pushing bodybuilders. If Punk is pushed as the guy who ISN'T juicing, then logically you'd have to infer that other people ARE juicing, and WWE would rather bury those sort of problems in press releases on the website.
ReplyDeleteI just found the angle stupid based simply off the the fact that I would never believe CM Punk as presented would crack under Jericho's barbs.
ReplyDeleteExcept that Punk's real life choice to be straight edge are based upon
ReplyDeletelegitimate reasons (fear of alcoholism due to his father being an
alcoholic) and there lies the drama and the head games, which is far
more interesting than Jericho running around like a goofy mute and
getting into a pissing match about who's better when you have both of
them far from the actual main event due to Vince's obsession with Cena,
that it's kind of laughable in a sad sort of way.
Fuck, if you want to play the "what could have been" card, how about
Jericho coming back and basically BURYING Punk by pointing out how full
of shit he was in SoP as far as the fact that all of his claims and
boosting about making the belt mean something have never come true and
that in the end, he sold out for a bunch of perks and the WWE fronting
the money for "Cult of Personality" and accusing him of going off on
Cena simply because Punk deep down knows that all of the crap he hates
about Cena, he's that AND more since Punk seems to think he adheres to a
higher standard than Cena.
Hell, also toss in Jericho evoking the "Usual Suspects" line Punk used
in ROH during the original v1.0 Summer of Punk storyline, saying that
the devil's greatest trick isn't making people think he doesn't exist
but it's making people feel sorry for him. Have him point out that Punk
had everyone behind him and he threw it all away given how fast he came
back to the WWE and moreso, how he allowed Cena and Rock and Alberto Del
Rio to take the spotlight from him once he got his gilded cage and
theme music and (if they want Jericho to go for a nasty low blow)
instead of making the world title the focus of everything, dropped his
pursuit of the belt in order to get involved in the self-absorbed world
of the Clique.
Jericho going after Punk and fucking with his head could have been a
glorious storyline but it only partially lived up to it's potential.
They could have had Jericho mindfuck Punk about being a sell-out, THEN
hit him with the family crap and Punk's fear of becoming a drunk once
Jericho sees that causing self-doubt in Punk via the sell-out line of
attack failed.
I'm chalking the whole feud up to a lack of chemistry. For some reason it just didn't work as well as expected. Much of it was fun and we got a couple of matches around **** but it was not at the level I'd hoped.
ReplyDeleteIn hindsight, WM + Extreme Rules feels like it was the wrong time to do it - particularly since Jericho didn't win the Rumble. If they'd started the feud now it would've gotten more of the spotlight and been of greater significance.
I'll disagree with Scott and others that didn't like this storyline. For the most part I enjoyed it. In terms of the story, it made sense: Jericho is a bit of an asshole and a shit-disturber and he needed to gain the psychological edge on Punk, so he tried to use his past against him.
ReplyDelete"Like, what’s the consequences if Punk is suddenly forced to drink some whiskey? Nothing, really."
True, but the delight Jericho was taking in mocking Punk for his beliefs and trying to get under his skin made the story not so much about tempting Punk to drink as much as it was Jericho just being the aforementioned asshole.
I agree in that I would have been ok with Jericho saying "I'm going to ruin you." The alcohol thing could have been a part of it, but yeah, once he says "You will DRINK~!" it kind of takes me out of it.
ReplyDeleteLike, does he mean that Punk is going to take a drink of alcohol in front of everyone? Going to get drunk in front of everyone? Does it mean that he's going to chug a Jack Daniels like Belushi in "Animal House" ? How far are you going to take this, Jericho? Are you going to show up everyday at Punk's house with a new booze basket?
I think the angle was doomed the first time Jericho said "Alcoholic~!" and made it about some addiction that most people either shrug their shoulders about, or have real knowledge about, and know it doesn't work that way.
And DID they come up with this angle on their own? I'm genuinely curious.
Alternatively, have Punk say he loved Austin when he was "Stunning" Steve/Hollywood Blonde Steve Austin but was utterly offended/disgusted when Austin gave up the preppy lifestyle to be a beer swilling redneck.
ReplyDeleteThe idea of Punk calling out Austin over THAT chestnut would actually make for a much more compelling reason to have them fight each other. Austin's broken down and been out of the ring for ages and you have Punk in the Apollo Creed role, reminding Austin of his past and how things were before Owen Hart broke his neck and he started drinking more and more to compensate for the fact that he couldn't go in the ring like he used to. AND it would give Austin a storyline to go into the match: Austin being forced to confront the fact that he's not the wrestler he once was and raise the issue of Austin having to give up his beloved beer in order to prove to Punk that his former idol can still go at it in the ring.
Given how Austin's been doing the acting thing and probably has some IRL jealousy over how the Rock's acting career is better than his, I'm sure he would be willing to do such a storyline in order to show that he can pull it off: showing his wrestling persona coping with his limitations and whether or not he can wrestle at such a high level of quality without his precious liquor and proving to the world that he doesn't need liquid courage to help him hold his own against Punk.
And fuck, it would be a nice contrast from Austin/Punk vs Cena/Rock by having an actual interesting issue drive that storyline as opposed to multiple segments of Rock pulling a Howard Beale and telling why everyone hates Cena and Cena acting like a tool in response as far as saying "you have the right to tell me I am all the things Rock says I am".
Yeah, it probably looked good on paper, as you put it here, but it didn't work in practice.
ReplyDeleteThe whole angle has put me off. To me it's just stupid. I've never been impressed by people who brag about how much alcohol and/or drugs they consume and I am equally not impressed by people talking about how little drugs and/or alcohol they consume. Consume, don't consume, if it doesn't directly affect me then it's none of my business and I don't want to hear about it. Talking about booze and drugs is just lame, talk about something else.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the kids go, I have a kid, and will feel absolutely no failure as a parent or in life if he grows up to be a responsible consumer of alcohol. Raising a teetotaler is not a particular goal of mine. If he does choose to be 100% sober, then that's ok too! I don't PUSH alcohol, but I also don't like this idea from some people that sobriety should be some sort of societal goal, instead of a personal one. Ditto the idea from some that there are only two options: sobriety, or destructive alcoholism. Utter nonsense.
I like both of these guys as workers, and I enjoy the matches, but let's leave booze and drugs out of it.
Well they've made a point to have Jericho hit Punk over the head with a large bottle, which is a WWE-canon plot point, in that severe blunt trauma to the head causes Punk to go from nice guy to vengeance-driven heroic sociopath (see Punk vs Randy Orton and John Cena)
ReplyDeleteshe has some rockin tits.
ReplyDeleteIt's like they were recycling the Lawler/Jake Roberts feud from 1996 when they were playing up Roberts getting over being an alcoholic. Except, as Scott says, nothing would actually happen if Punk had a drink. Other than he might sleep with even MORE divas.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of the why or how....the bottom line is the angle bombed and no one gave a crap. You can defend the logic behind it, but it simply didn't work.
I thought it was pretty clear that the slant they were going for was that since Punk's "family" has been genetically predispositioned to addiction, he chose to be a teetotaler for safety's sake.
ReplyDeleteAnd this reminds me, apparently the "no drinking on the job" edict must be relatively new... say, since Austin stopped appearing on TV regularly...
ReplyDeletei agree Punk/Jericho would be more of a summer fued when they could have some time to setup a decent story rather than being sandwiched inbetween Rock/Cena and HHH/Taker/HBK
ReplyDeleteI remember the night that Linda McMahon announced that drinking on the job would be allowed before announcing Steve Austin as the new C.E.O.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Scott on the notion that the WrestleMania build should have been about who is better. And then when Jericho comes up short and snaps, the build up to Extreme Rules should have been more personal with this alcohol stuff (if that's the route they choose to take).
ReplyDeleteHowever, I don't agree with Scott's take on how this angle came across to the audience, mostly because there's a lot of picking and choosing with what actually happened. Who's to say what the consequences would be if Punk drank, but it was established that addiction runs in his family and that his clean lifestyle was a preventative measure. And Jericho didn't want Punk to drink so that he'd have a dandy time. He wanted Punk to drink with the hopes that it would destroy his life. When Jericho was breaking bottles of whiskey over Punk's head, I don't think the fans were saying "Ya' know that Jericho is right, Punk should lighten up and drink a little."
Judging by the crowd reaction I don't think it "bombed" per say. It just wasn't as special as it could have been.
ReplyDeletePeople crap all over the Higher Power big reveal as being Vince, but from day one and to this day I've argued that the whole point of the Higher Power angle wasn't anything to do with Vince as some evil mastermind but rather to get Austin into the CEO position for a while.
ReplyDeleteI said it during the live thread for the PPV but the real shame of it all is that what Punk really needs to finally cement himself is another feud with Cena. Those two are PERFECT for each other, they have all the chemistry in the world but it just simply isn't allowed because Cena is always off in "special attraction" land.
ReplyDeleteThey seem perfectly suited to have a nice career-long rivalry like Rocky/Austin or Savage/Hogan.
Also, I wasn't sure who I was supposed to cheer for. I was on my 9th beer by the time the World Title match came on so...
As much as the tag team partners that don't get along angle is played out, I wouldn't mind seeing it with Cena and Punk. Punk helping out Cena with Big Johnny and his crew would actually make sense considering Punk's past problems with Ace.
ReplyDeleteHey, JesseBaker got one right!
ReplyDeleteYes, this. The alcohol part missed, but it wasn't awful or offensive (creatively offensive, might still have been offensive to alcoholics, what do I know).
ReplyDeleteSee, the way I took it was that Punk choses not to drink. He was preachy about it in the past, but he hasn't been recently, it's just an established part of his character. His reasons for not drinking were revealed that his father is an alcoholic and addictions run in his family, so it's understandable he would choose to avoid it all together. If not because he will become a raging alcoholic than because it's something that destroyed his family and he hates it for that reason. He chooses not to drink. Jericho not only tries to force him to drink (which is his personal choice not to do), but does so knowing/hoping it will turn him into an alcoholic, which, unlikely as it may be, is possible due to his genetics. Regardless, Jericho's rubbing Punk's family tragedy in his face and trying to force him into something he doesn't believe in, so he's a heel for that. But it is a tough sell when it comes to wrestling fans - even kids who don't, or shouldn't, be drinking yet, would find the idea of doing it to be great fun they're looking forward to. There were a lot of little problems or things not done as well as they could have been during that feud, but I don't think Punk refusing to drink is one of them.....but I agree with Scott, there's nothing wrong with wacky drunken adventures.
ReplyDeleteLoved the opening, shaky middle, nailed the landing. Russian judge gives it a 6.
ReplyDelete"And, partially, belonging to the straight edge punk community."
ReplyDeleteWhat I was going for here was the idea that part of Punk being sXe is belonging to the straight edge community. Not me, God knows.
I think the moment that the angle died was when Punk, after getting doused by Jericho for the first time, said something to the effect of, "I smelled like... I smelled like MY FATHER!" He then paused for dramatic effect, and the audience just didn't give a shit.
ReplyDeleteIt was just a really poor attempt at soap opera.
Absolutely - it's not like "Vince as the Higher Power" was a storyline that ran for a while before they went with the "Austin as CEO" angle, the former segued directly into the latter over the course of one segment.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was 18-19, in college, I thought it was awesome to brag about how drunk or stoned I was.
ReplyDeleteSince then, though? Yeah, not exactly.
I grew up straight edge even though I didn't have a single friend who was also straight edge. All my friends were stoners and drank a *lot*, but they all left me alone and never pressured me. Then I got to college where asshole frat boys would try pouring alcohol down my throat and there would be fights. I never liked being stand-offish about it, but it was either that or get in fights. As an adult, I've still never tasted alcohol and I never will. I've also been able to not have to get into any stupid arguments over it.
ReplyDeleteI can relate much more to CM Punk than Jerhico or anyone else. But even I dug his heel run in ROH way more than his currently smiling babyface straight edge act. I thought his feud with Raven was all sorts of awesome. He was railing against the waste of life Raven's life was with being a washed up alcoholic/drug user and saying I hate you because you were a big time WWE wrestler and flushed it all away.
I dunno...I just don't think anyone thinks straight edge is cool. It's not...it's the epitome of dorkiness. I'm a HUGE dork because as an adult man, I still don't have a sip of champagne at a wedding or whatever. But that's also what makes punk a cool heel...he hates everyone trying to dump beer down his throat and he's going to kick their ass before they get a chance to.
The feud with Jericho was just kinda stupid. I mean, what adult male is Hell-bent on getting another adult male to drink? It works better when Punk is trying to kick the ass of those he thinks party too much.
It would work better with DBryan. I could see Jericho tying him up and trying to stuff Baconators in his mouth.
ReplyDeleteI went to high school with a lot of straight edge kids, and they were very heelish. They all came off as music snobs into local hardcore and old school punk. I just remember them as being a very elitist group. It is very hard for people to relate to straight edge, as most Americans drink, pop pills, do drugs, etc. That was a key ingredient in Steve Austin's popularity. I may be in a minority who feels Punk would have been better served as a heel after Money in the Bank. A Russo esque swerve would have rocked.
ReplyDeleteI just think they rushed the different facets of the feud despite it going on for far too long.
ReplyDeleteIt started with who was the best in the world. But before they could even settle that issue, they went right into the CM Drunk portion a week or 2 before WM. It's like starting the sequel (where it's PERSONAL~!) before the first movie is concluded. Punk beat Jericho at WM; that should've ended the feud because Jericho had already "upped the ante" by bringing up the alcohol stuff. The timing of the entire feud was just all fucked up.
It would be fun, good for both guys, AND improve the tag ranks' credibility...it's so easy they can't do it.
ReplyDeleteI think that was absolutely the right course for him. A push on top as the heel (that everyone respects anyway ala' Kurt Angle) would have played to his strengths much better.
ReplyDeleteStraightedge is always going to be considered "heelish" just by virtue of the overwhelming majority of us enjoying alcohol or weed or pills or whatever at least moderately.
It will be interesting to see, if they ever do Punk/Austin, how in the world they'll try to position Punk as the face for it.
Pretty much this. Anything remotely preachy is almost by default will end up being rejected by jaded teenage males and young adults.
ReplyDelete"The feud with Jericho was just kinda stupid. I mean, what adult male is
ReplyDeleteHell-bent on getting another adult male to drink? It works better when
Punk is trying to kick the ass of those he thinks party too much."
He wasn't just trying to get him to drink, but trying to turn him into an alcoholic, which is something I think most everyone considers undesirable.
It's a strange world when being straight edge makes you less "cool" than someone who is. I'm technically straight edge myself, but I don't call myself "straight edge" or whatever, nor have I ever put any thought into it. It's just always happened to be the case that I've never drank or smoked and I have zero desire to do so.
ReplyDeleteI just don't get why "straight edge" has to be his gimmick. It wasn't his gimmick during summer of punk and it hadn't been seriously utilized in stories since the society. I have liked Punk as a face; I just wish they would have let him keep some of the "chip on his shoulder" mentality. I would say that is the most frustrating aspect of the current crop of faces: they are all just so laid-back. Sheamus has been completely passive in his feud with Bryan. Cena smiles everything off. Punk is all about indifference. Brodus chills and dances.
ReplyDeleteRandy Orton has managed to stay over pretty much solely on the basis that he is a good guy with a serious edge, a serious mean streak. He actually gets pissed off, and flies off the handle, and tries to hurt people. I think people like him for that reason. Last summer, Punk had that look in his eyes; that Steve Austin 96/97 look that just screamed: "Fuck this! If you won't let me drive, I am gonna flip the fucking bus!"....Okay, I don't even know what that means.
Now, where was I? Oh yes, angry faces = happy Sasukespecialman.
Jericho and Punk coming up with the idea is one thing, had they been able to book it themselves on a bi-weekly basis and not let it get WWE-fied it probably would of been executed much better.
ReplyDeleteDude, how can you have fun if you aren't shitfaced? I mean, then you have to...deal with people with a clear mind, that's just awful!
ReplyDeleteRandy Orton is a good guy? Really, what good things has he ever done? I get that you want faces with an edge, and I agree, but Orton has done nothing to make himself a face.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm glad that they're keeping Punk as Straight Edge, internal continuity is very important to cohesive storytelling and it makes Punk a character and not just a blank slate they can give whatever traits they want.
That's why I liked Sheamus kicking a ref and then apologizing for it, introducing a fatal flaw (something every face needs) in his short temper, it's something people can relate to, but having it played up as a flaw gives the babyface some vulnerability without making him a bitch.
Agreed on the passive character issue, but it's really hard to have an "agenda" in wrestling without being a heel. Yeah you have the "babyface challenges for belt" storyline, but most feuds are "Heel does something dastardly to face, face responds" wrestling is limited in scope, faces really don't have much to be proactive about.
Hmm...fair points. I guess, regardless of whether Orton is a "good guy" or not, the fanbase seems to really like him - and I think it has to do with his general intensity. In terms of Punk, I am not saying he should not have his "straight edge" acknowledged at all, or that they should erase that part of his character. Rather, his current face run has not been centered on that specific aspect of his personality. The strength of his character, beginning with the Summer of Punk, was his willingness to say what was on his mind and to stake his claim at the top of the WWE ladder - both of which I think resonated with the fan base. The problem with over-emphasizing the "straight edge" stuff when he is a face is that it is mostly something to be attacked - it isn't very "face-like" to force your beliefs on others.
ReplyDeleteI do think wrestling has a long history of "active" face character types. The title chase is, of course, the simplest of them. But there are other examples too. Austin's 1997-98 character was always willing to take the fight to Mcmahon first. Bret was also generally quite good at injecting a more aggressive side to his face character: for example, his promo with Piper at WM VIII is an awesome example of two faces that aren't afraid to get in each other's faces (Bret vs Perfect at KotR 93 was similar). Even the "face responds" story can manifest itself in multiple ways. The Punk feud, as mentioned by others, has been very one sided; Jericho is coming across as a Dr. Claw-style TV villain, as he tries various schemes. Punk is very passive in this mode. A better version of this type of storyline is Taker vs HBK in 97, where the face went on a rampage and the heel was just trying to stay alive.
I definitely agree with you on character consistency, as well as the importance of giving faces "flaws". Well-rounded characters are a must.
what are you talking about. being straight edge is cool as fuck.
ReplyDeleteand it does matter because it was build up as a big part of Punks life. to take another example: you would think it would be a huge deal if a muslim (or someone portrayed as a muslim) was force fed pork, right?
to me, that makes the "overwhelming majority" the heels.
ReplyDeleteto be fair, most "jaded teenage males and young adults" are morons.
ReplyDeleteI agree with screamworks .... great explanation.
ReplyDelete"[....] but since you sound like a pussy if you "just say no", it's easier to
ReplyDeleteclaim allegiance to the Straight Edge movement and get standoffish about
it."
this. in my youth I happened to be in dozens of situations in which someone tries to "persuade" you into "having fun" (= getting drunk with others) and very usually making fun of you etc. (which a lot of time includes stuff like pouring a beer over someones head...). so, yeah, I totally agree. because then instead of saying "well, I don't drink, blah." you respond with a way more confident "fuck you, I am straight edge!"
For a while weve been complaining about somebody being able to be over and be liked by everybody, similar to Austin in his prime. One trait that I think would help would be pounding beers in the ring. I mean what teenage - 30 something guy cant get behind somebody who goes out, kicks ass, then has a bunch of drinks and acts crazy. Its what we want to do all the time!!! It seems real easy to me but maybe it is against their moral code now, who knows. I think even Cena would get more cheers by doing that, its not like a lot of people dont just boo him now just cause its the cool thing to do at the time.
ReplyDeletePunk vs. Bryan
ReplyDeleteLoser eats Stroganoff
"being straight edge is cool as fuck."
ReplyDeleteAnd that, ladies and gentlemen, is why nobody likes straight edge people.
like going to a club sober... yuck.
ReplyDeleteThere are millions of people around the world who silently do not drink, smoke, or take drugs. There is not something inherent about being human, or the human experience, that entails the use of such stimulants. Calling ones self "Straight Edge" is solely for attention, and said people are usually sad and angry.
ReplyDeletenot ON SCREEN.
ReplyDeleteVery true, didn't say it makes sense at all lol, but your product is basically tailored to people who don't necessarily think rationally, so when you have one idea, and it doesn't catch on like you expect it to, you have to consider your fan base.
ReplyDeleteThe audience is always the hero.
ReplyDeleteThere's a difference between substance free and straight edge, IMO. No one has a problem with people who choose to be substance free. What they have a problem with is the stereotypical straight edge jerk who is all preachy and condescending.
ReplyDeleteFunny thing is, there was similar group in my high school. 10 years later, half of them (including the one with the XXX tattoo on his leg) drink more than I do.
McMahon started the feud by wanting Austin to be somebody he wasn't. Yes Austin was active in taking the fight to him, but Vinny Mac was just coming of Montreal so you really could see Austin as a guy trying to protect himself.
ReplyDeleteAnd Taker was on a warpath because Shawn screwed him out of the belt, right? And while faces can be proactive in their feuds, most feuds are started by heels, because being a shit-disturber is generally seen as a villainous trait. I do think more faces should fuck with heels during feuds, Orton hiding in a cake was...well somewhat unique if not necessarily good.
Well, drinking at a club is a good way to waste money, so yeah, getting fucked up before going out isn't a bad idea at all.
ReplyDeletefuck that noise, id rather show up to a club buzzing and get some refresher drinks to keep it going throughout the night #cheapdrunk
ReplyDeleteWhy are we to assume that Punk would automatically turn into an alcoholic. Although his family history is poor, that doesn't mean having a beer would instantly turn him into a raging alcoholic. I find that to be a very huge hole in the storyline, in my opinion. Usually alcoholism and addiction is a long twisted path.
ReplyDeleteEh...drugs and alcohol are cool as fuck. Stright edge is a personal choice people should respect, but calling it cool as fuck seems like a reach
ReplyDeleteI agree, "pregame" drinking is a good idea for going out. Plus here in California we can basically get high right inside in the clubs so really we only need something handy for the cotton mouth
ReplyDeleteI like to drink and smoke and use drugs recreationally but I don't have any problem with stright edge people and I wouldn't insult there choice.
ReplyDeleteBut it seems...and I could be wrong, that stright edge people think they are superior some how. Or at least that they deserve special recognition. That is a trait that is perfect for a wrestling heel but not for a babyface. But maybe I'm way off
Yeah, I don't disagree that the heels tend to start the feuds. But, as you said, it would be nice if the faces had a fire lit under their asses a bit more often. For example, HBK vs Jericho in '08.
ReplyDeleteHonestly I wouldn't mind if a face waited for a heel backstage and beat the shit out of them. It's a bit tweenerish, but I think it'd work great for Punk, who borrows a good deal of his face persona from Eddie and Austin.
ReplyDeleteI think in Punk's case he got really into it and identified with it when he was still young, and now it's just something he can't really get away from. All those tattoos don't help his cause.
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