Hi Scott, long time reader, first time e-mailer. I have a question for you and your good followers.
We are familiar with the WWE putting on the same match 3 or 4 PPVs in a row, but which match-up has featured on PPV the most times?
Off the top of my head I can think of Undertaker vs. Kane (excluding tag, multi man matches) at 9 times - WM XIV, Unforgiven 98, Judgement Day 98, Survivor Series 98, Sumer Slam 2000, WM XX, Night of Champions 2010, Hell in a Cell 2010, Bragging Rights 2010.
Any match-up beats this number?
Good question. Orton v. Cena was featured in a few different forms, of course, but I don't think they hit nine. Undertaker v. Austin had at least 5 off the top of my head. Rock v. Austin were on six. HHH v. Rock had a bunch during the 98-2000 prime. The modern era has at least been remarkably good about mixing up different guys, or at least different combinations of the same few guys, to the point where it's not EXACTLY the same match over and over.
Am I the only one who would like to see one more HHH/Rock match? I loved their matches and thought the two would be linked together as each other's best opponents in their prime, sort of like Flair and Steamboat. It didn't work out that way, but one more match between the two at a Wrestlemania would be awesome.m
ReplyDeleteDon't forget Rey Mysterio and Chavo Guerrero, they faced eachother on PPV alot as well. No Way Out '04, Great American Bash '04, Summerslam '06, No Mercy '06, Summerslam '07, and I'm sure I'm missing some others
ReplyDeleteI don't think it was even on a PPV, but ECW did Tommy/Raven what felt a hundred times. Sting/Vader has to be up there, if you want to count clashes. Sting/Flair too.
ReplyDeleteTriple H vs. HBK is another one that happened a ton if you count Elimination Chambers and Triple Threats, but straight up 1-on-1 I want to say it only happened...5 times? SS 2002, Armageddon 2002, RR 2004, Bad Blood 2004, Taboo Tuesday 2004...I think that's it unless I'm forgetting something.
ReplyDeleteBut then they were both participants in 3 different Elimination Chambers, they had 2 triple threats with Benoit, and 1 with Cena. Oddly enough I can't think of any four-way matches they were both in.
Hmmm...how about Triple H vs. Randy Orton?
ReplyDeleteUnforgiven 2004
Royal Rumble 2005
TWO matches at No Mercy 2007
Judgment Day 2008
One Night Stand 2008
Wrestlemania XXV
The Bash 2009
8 PPV singles matches against each other. So close! Did I miss any?
I'd be somewhat interested in seeing it again - it certainly wouldn't match the quality of their matches from over a decade ago, and I'd rather see them programmed with fresh opponents, but if it were really built-up as two old enemies finally proving which was better (kind of coming full circle, from two rookies to the COO and Hollywood A-Lister), it'd have my attention.
ReplyDeleteNothing beats Super Crazy vs. Tajiri. They easily ran that match on TV, PPV, and live shows over a hundred times.
ReplyDeleteDid that match run more often than Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka?
ReplyDeleteHHH/Rock at SS98 is just as fun to watch today as it was back in 1998. Few matches from that era in the Fed have lasting power, but that is definitely one of them.
ReplyDeleteJericho/Michaels had, what, six matches in 2008 alone, plus WM19? I guess that's still not enough, but bore mentioning.
ReplyDeleteUmmm...I feel like Edge/Cena had a bunch, right? What about Edge/Taker? Edge/Matt Hardy? I guess what I'm saying here is that it always seemed to me like Edge fights the same guy a lot.
Actually, what about Trish/Lita?
ReplyDeleteI have been watching a ton of early 90s WCW and nothing tops the INTERMINABLE Southern Boys vs Freebirds feud.
ReplyDeleteI've got the Rock v HHH at 7 singles PPV matches between 1997 and 2000, plus the UK only PPV in 1999 (which I attended) - along with several multi-man matches.
ReplyDeleteI think Scott may have dismissed Cena vs. Orton a little too quickly.
ReplyDeleteOddly enough they never had a 1-on-1 PPV match until Summerslam 2007, but in sum total they fought at:
Summerslam 2007
Unforgiven 2007
No Way Out 2008
Summerslam 2009
Breaking Point 2009
Hell in a Cell 2009
Bragging Rights 2009
Only 7 for now, but I imagine before all is said and done they'll surpass 9.
This is a fun game, I'm going to keep researching other common matchups.
Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero had to have happened on a crapload of shows
ReplyDelete"The modern era has at least been remarkably good about mixing up different guys, or at least different combinations of the same few guys, to the point where it's not EXACTLY the same match over and over."
ReplyDeleteReally? 'Cause I remember Scott complaining often about not caring about Cena/Edge or Cena/Orton after their 23 encounters. Let's also not forget the endless Kofi/Dolph feud.
Sadly, Rock/HBK = 0 times. I still drool over the thought of a double kip-up spot during their hypothetical 5-star Wrestlemania dream match.
ReplyDeleteI just want to see if I can remember these -
ReplyDeleteUndertaker/Austin - May 1997 In Your House, Summerslam 1998, Breakdown 1998 (Triple Threat with Kane), Rock Bottom, Over The Edge 1999, Fully Loaded 1999, Judgement Day 2001. Backlash 2001 as well, if you count the tag team match with Kane/HHH, but then we might have to include Survivor Series 2001. Backlash 2002. I think that's it.
Rock/HHH - Possibly the Final Four pay per view in 1997 - I'm not sure, and I can't remember it, but Rocky beat HHH for the title around that time so it would make sense. Although HHH was feuding with Goldust at that time to, something tells me it was Goldust/HHH....but then there's Judgement Day 1998 (six man), Fully Loaded 1998, Summerslam 1998, Over the Edge 1999, Fully Loaded 1999, Backlash 2000, Judgement Day 2000...and that's it? Throw in Survivor Series 1999, WM 2000 and KOTR 2000 if multi-man matches count.
Armageddon 2000 has Rock/HHH/Undertaker/Austin in the same match, so throw that anywhere.
Mankind/Undertaker had six pay per view matches, I think. Did Bret or HBK have a go to PPV opponent? Benoit/Jericho has to be up there if you count WCW.
You'd think so, but I'm not sure. I don't remember them having a pay per view match in WCW. A lot of Nitro/Saturday Nights but no pay per view, that immediately comes to mind at least. I only remember Vengeance 2003 and One Night Stand 2005 from WWE, not counting tag team matches. I think most of their matches when the Radicalz would break up happened on tv.
ReplyDeleteEdge/Cena - New Years Revolution (technically it counts), Royal Rumble, Backlash (3 way with HHH), Summerslam 2006, Unforgiven 2006, Wrestlemania whatever (3 way with Big Show), and Backlash (or whatever it was called that year) 2009?
ReplyDeleteYou're right about the Rock/ HHH matches - including Final Four.
ReplyDeleteRock vs. HHH: The Continuance of An Era!
ReplyDeleteAll joking aside, all their matches were terrific and one more would be pretty cool. They just couldnt book it as The End of An Era II; thats exactly what I think of whenever these dream matches feat. 2 Attitude guys comes up.
HHH/Orton has 9Unforgiven 04Royal Rumble 04No Mercy 07No Mercy 07againJudgement Day 08One Night Stand 08Wm25Bash 09
ReplyDeletePlus any number of tag, handicap, triple threat, elimination chamber, etc matches
I know there must be an obvious one not from the main event we're all missing
Count me in the minority here but I loved the Undertaker/Kane match at Wrestlemania XX. The return of the dead man gimmick, the Garden crowd chanting un-der-ta-ker, and then once the mach started taker just unloaded on Kane. Plus they kept the match short which made it all the more effective.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe Benoit vs. Jericho ever happened on WCW PPV, or if it did it was just maybe a random throwaway midcard match once. Their paths never crossed as far as feuds go. By the time Jericho escaped the Cruiserweight ghetto in late 1998, Benoit was already an upper-midcarder, and Jericho left a year later before ever rising above TV Title level.
ReplyDeleteSo then you're just left with their 4 WWE PPV 1-on-1s: Backlash '00, Judgment Day '00, Summerslam '00, and Royal Rumble '01.
They had an excellent ~15 minute match at Fall Brawl 1996, although as you hypothesized, that was pretty early on in Jericho's WCW run.
ReplyDeleteThey had an excellent ~15 minute match at Fall Brawl 1996, although as you hypothesized, that was pretty early on in Jericho's WCW run.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure that was Jericho's debut, or at least his TV debut.
ReplyDeleteTo thread hi-jack slightly are Flair and Steamboat the only pairing where all of their PPV matches scored ***** (Chi-Town Rumble, Clash Of The Champions VI, WrestleWar)?
ReplyDeleteSpring Stampede '94 is the fly in the ointment.
ReplyDelete(Also Clash of the Champions weren't PPVs but that wouldn't invalidate the argument)
You could make a case for Bret vs. Owen. 2 PPV matches, both arguably *****.
How did I forget Awesome/Tanaka? I was beyond sick of that match-up, especially when (I'm sure I'm in the minority here) I didn't like any of their matches to begin with.
ReplyDeleteI remember during One Night Stand Joey Styles said before the Rey Jr/Psi match that they wrestled each other something like 450 times. My immediate reaction was "Why the fuck do we have to see it again?"
Yup, pretty close, it looks like he had a few television appearances in late August and early September on Nitro and some of the B shows.
ReplyDeleteTrips/Orton was my first thought, they've probably had (or at least, it FEELS like they've had) close to twenty PPV matches if you count multi-man matches.
ReplyDelete6-star WM dream match.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Scott's statement struck me as odd, as well. What was that stat about, like, 90% of every PPV (WWE or WHC) title-match since WM21 containing either Cena, Orton, Trips, or Batista?
ReplyDeleteThat reminds me: Hardys/E&C has to be up there.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of ECW, RVD/Lynn has to be up there.
ReplyDeleteUsually both of those were on the same show, although Awesome/Tanaka might have come first. I remember the 2 months in a row that Awesome/Tanaka, Tajiri/Crazy, and Raven & Dreamer/Impact Players was the lineup every week.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with that is one always gets compared to the others, and either the new ones get no respect or people amend their previous opinions to make it fit.
ReplyDeleteHow does Taker/Foley stack up?
ReplyDeleteKing of the Ring 1996
SummerSlam 1996
In your House: Buried Alive
Survivor Series 1996
In Your House: Revenge of the Taker
King of the Ring 1998
Can't help but think I'm missing some?
i know this is blasphemy, but I really don't think the Flair-Steamboat matches are 5 stars. Much closer to 4 stars. Oddly enough, I think the one I liked the most was the one in 94 on a Worldwide or Saturday Night taping shortly after Spring Stampede.
ReplyDeleteI just always thought that longer Flair matches were too repetitive and maybe even a little too basic. If I'm looking for action, I'd take 15 minutes of Steamboat-Savage over 45 minutes of Steamboat-Flair. And if I'm going to watch a longer match, I want Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart telling me a story along the way that doesn't use the same spot three or four times like Flair would in a match.
Shawn and Taker, as well - everything they did together was phenomenal.
ReplyDeleteDid Ramon-Michaels have any other matches besides the 2 Ladder matches? Both are generally rated at 5 stars.
ReplyDeleteHis TV debut was Nitro, against Alex Wright. He talks about it in his book, about how brutal of a debut it was. Wright gets hurt on the outside and Jericho refuses to take the count out win. He did some World Wide tapings prior to that, not sure if they aired prior to the Nitro match though.
ReplyDeleteWhich one was it where Cena vacated the title? HHH beat Orton for it to start the show and lost it back to him to end the show? So that's two in one!
ReplyDeleteI hated Chavo/Rey, it seemed like they were constantly feuding over various issues every couple of months.
ReplyDeleteI think it would be interesting now if they let them quasi-shoot like Rock did with Cena. Rock's probably the only guy (aside from Undertaker, who wouldn't do it) who could cut HHH apart if he tried to bury him on the mic.
ReplyDeleteFlair has a couple of matches that I really like, but I don't celebrate his every match either. He does tend to use the same spots - I know everyone does that, but there's difference between guys using their established moves, and a guy getting press slammed, back body dropped and caught/thrown off the top rope every match no matter who he's facing.
ReplyDeleteI understand that. Some people like different stuff. I love all three matches, but I understand the criticism. Personally there are a lot of matches I rank way higher than Flair/Steamboat. But I understand people liking them more or less than me.
ReplyDeleteTrue they have 3 matches I have at *****(Bad Blood '97, WM 25, WM 26) one match at ****1/2(Ground Zero) and one at ****(Royal Rumble 98) Of course you could easily have their casket match at ***** and that's the beauty of opinons!
ReplyDeleteUK PPVs count? If so HHH v Rock had 8, but Taker/Kane has one more from Mayhem in Manchester I guess, but I don't think Mayhem in Manchester was a PPV was it? (Honestly can't remember) I thought it was just a house show that was recorded and released on VHS.
ReplyDeleteFrom my head:
Triple H v. The Rock
In Your House: Final Four
Fully Loaded 98
SummerSlam 98
Over The Edge 99
Fully Loaded 99
Rebellion 99
Backlash 00
Judgment Day 00
Austin v. Undertaker
In Your House: A Cold Day In Hell
Summerslam 98
Rock Bottom
Over the Edge 99
Fully Loaded 99
Judgment Day 01
Backlash 02
Yeah, looking more closely it looks like it went Alex Wright on 8/26, followed by the airing of a Saturday Night match on 8/31 against Mr. JL, vs Dean Malenko on Nitro on 9/2 and then against Benoit at Fall Brawl.
ReplyDeleteI think they only did that twice, and they're 2 of the most overrated matches ever. I might be thinking of RVD/Lance Storm though.
ReplyDeleteDoh. You're correct of course - I just keep splitting early HBK from late HBK and forget about the goodness of the whole HBK/Taker body of work.
ReplyDeleteActually no, I can only think of 4 E&C/Hardys PPV matches
ReplyDeleteNo Mercy 99
No Way Out 00
Unforgiven 00
No Mercy 00 (as Conquistadors)
They probably had 30+ matches on Raw/Smackdown ofc :)
Probably, RVD/Lynn was a fixture of ECW, and was always fantastic. Even their match at "Destination X, 2011" was great, despite both men being ten years older. They just had phenomenal chemistry.
ReplyDeleteAs for Lance Storm, I was never really a fan; he obviously understood the in-ring stuff, but there was no conviction, he did everything with a blank expression on his face, like he was just going through the motions. When he threw a punch, for instance, it was like he was just saying "ok, here is where I throw a punch", instead of actually trying to make it look like his character was trying to hurt the other guy. His feather-light chair-shots are the stuff of legend, too.
Yeah, you know you're boring as shit when the actually make it part of your character. And you're right about the chairshots, the ones at Barley Legal were right up there with Erik Watts' dropkick and Luger's Maryland Athletic Commission bladejob.
ReplyDeleteNah, Rock/Austin will always be linked together.
ReplyDelete