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HHH

Scott,
If HHH and Stephanie never got together, when do you think HHH would have made the otherwise-inevitable drop from main event status?  Do you think he still gets the big push in 2002 after the quad injury?  If he still gets that, do you think he nosedives once it became totally obvious the match quality was lacking (and would not return until 2004)?  That 2000-2001 run was one of the best ever, but it's hard for me to picture him in that prominent role beyond 2005 if he's not the Boss (or married to the Boss).  If Hunter fades following the initial run, who do you think would have risen in his place?  Would Kurt Angle have become the next great heel?   Jericho?  Someone else?


If it's not Lex Luger, it's HHH around here.  Thing is, even without banging the boss's daughter, he was still a giant star after the quad injury, and Vince isn't a stupid guy.  I'm pretty sure HHH would have been pushed almost as hard, because HHH is awesome at looking out for HHH, and most of the REAL power moves were behind-the-scenes stuff anyway.  The roster was so depleted after the departures of Rock and Austin that they pretty much HAD to keep pushing HHH.  

Now if HHH had been dating her in this fantasy universe and then BROKE UP with her after cheating on her like he did with Chyna, that's a different thing altogether.  I think that then, yes, Kurt Angle becomes the next guy in line, and maybe Jericho gets pushed to the top relatively unfettered.  

Comments

  1. I'm surprised people are so revved up to talk Lex Luger. 

    As for HHH, I think he would've still been pushed, but we definitely wouldn't have saw the likes of 2002-2005. And he definitely wouldn't be getting his win back from Brock Lesnar in two months. 

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  2. Apparently my comment disappeared? Has Triple H taken hold of the BoD?

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  3. I think people sometimes forget that Steph isn't the only McMahon who's in love with the guy. Even if they never hooked up, he'd still be the same HHH that Vince adores. Workaholic, loyal, gym freak, he's everything Vince wants in a son! (sorry Shane...)

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  4. ahh the reign of terror. no. 1 reason I stopped watching Raw (close #2 being a freshman at wvu)

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  5. If HHH got de-pushed for cheating on Steph, then the next big main event sensation would have been whoever started nailing Steph after the breakup. Probably Edge.

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  6. That's the thing people forget, Vince was adamant about getting Triple H over no matter what (face or heel), it's just that the fans weren't biting. Even in Jericho's book, he mentions how Triple H would be having private meetings with Vince and the higher ups even when he was still with Chyna.

    Besides, who's to say he didn't stay on the booking team even after Shawn left in 1998?

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  7. Im pretty sure its that most of us can see what Luger could have been with proper pushes and timing.  If this blog were around earlier or we were older it would be about Magnum TA although of course his story is a bit more tragic.

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  8. He da COO man, he da COO!

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  9. Aaagh! It drives me crazy that we're getting a HHH-Brock rematch. Brock beat him CLEAN! No chicanery!

    And the match SUCKED! HHH was booed by the fans after he lost! WTF?!

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  10. Christopher HirschAugust 27, 2012 at 1:58 PM

    Has this been confirmed anywhere?

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  11.  I agree, there doesn't need to be a rematch.

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  12.  I do think he still would've gotten the big push that started in 1999, whether Stephanie came in the picture or not.

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  13. I've read it being rumoured on 411mania and Wrestling Observer's website. The build is supposed to start tonight for the match to be at October's PPV.

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  14. I still think he would've risen to the top regardless, because we all know that he KNOWS WHAT'S BEST FOR THIS BUSINESS! The guy was a fucking insane worker in 1999-2001 and Vince would've pushed him regardless. 

    As much as I hated the Reign of Terror, and I certainly fucking hated it, there were very few guys you could've put the title on as RAW was wanking its way through broken-down WCWers like Steiner and Nash. Goldberg and Booker you could've pulled the trigger on, and I guess Jericho if you were going to put him in a program with HBK or Goldberg, but other than that, pickings were slim (sorry, RVD).

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  15. Christopher HirschAugust 27, 2012 at 2:07 PM

    Yeah, I'm not clamoring for a rematch, if it does happen again hope Triple H at least jobs again.

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  16. Has the whole "HHH held down Jericho" thing been confirmed? I mean, I believe it and Jericho sort of alludes to it in his second book, but has there ever been any stories confirming it?

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  17.  But the usually dominant Triple H lost. Now we're left wondering if he still has it. Now he's left wondering if he still has it. Will he take one more shot at Brock to prove he's still the man? Will he fail and show he can't get it done anymore? How is anyone able to sleep with all of these questions still unanswered.

    They tell stories.

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  18. If Trips isn't banging Stephanie, he doesn't get "God Push" where they tried to sell him as on the level of Rock and Austin when NOBODY was buying it.  I think Vince would've tried pushing him, but not nearly as hard, and would have given someone else a chance when it didn't take.

    Also, I am convinced that a big factor in Austin, Rock and Foley departing all around the same time was due to seeing the writing on the wall that Trips was gonna be The Guy.  I have zero proof of this.

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  19. People will be able to sleep once that rematch begins...because it'll be a SNOOZE-FEST!

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  20. Once Mark Smart confirms it, then we can take it as Word of God.

    SAVE THE INDYS

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  21. I think Jericho deserved a big babyface run to put him on the top level (which he never got). And HHH should have been the guy to put him over like Foley did for him.

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  22. Yeah but they're telling stories

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  23. Ha...sorry, dude. Someone already beat you to that joke.

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  24. Christopher HirschAugust 27, 2012 at 2:26 PM

    I don't always believe the Triple H stuff but it was pretty apparent. He basically buried Jericho any chance he got.

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  25. On that note what was the main reason Shane stopped working for the company?

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  26. Disagree on the grounds that Jericho should never, EHHHHHHHHHHHH-EVER be a babyface. His persona is best as a heel whether he's Y2J-Ayatollah-of-Rock-n-Rolla Chris Jericho, or Best-in-the-World-At-What-I-Do, Using-Big-Words-Before-Sandow-Made-It-Cool, Super Serious Chris Jericho.

    Not to be confused with Super Saiyan Chris Jericho.

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  27. COO COO CA CHOO

    (Yeah, I know it's goo goo g'joob, but fuck you, I need to hit my quota of lame jokes/references)

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  28. Goldberg is the answer.  Even though the match with Rock stunk the fans were still mostly into him until HHH cut his balls off.  Go back in time to that Elimination Chamber match and do the exact same ending of the match with HHH getting the sledgehammer and Goldberg stops his spear, grabs it out of his hands and throws it away, then whip into spear/jackhammer. 

    You've got yourself at least half a year of Goldberg on top right there.

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  29. He is a CEO of a video-on-demand company at China and wanted to focus on that at the time he left.

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  30. "If he still gets that, do you think he nosedives once it became
    totally obvious the match quality was lacking (and would not return
    until 2004)?"People need to realize that WE may think the match quality is lacking, that doesn't mean *WWE* does.  This is a business that considers many big lugs to be good workers so fans and the company are not judging matches by the same criteria.

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  31. I'm not sure where this 'HHH was a great worker in 1999-2001' thing came from.  He was a GOOD worker, same as he's pretty much always been, but not a GREAT one.  If you put any good worker in street fight matches against Foley, brawls and wrestling matches with a revitalized Austin, tag matches against Jericho/Benoit, a hot feud with Kurt Angle and a red-hot feud with the molten-hot Rock during that era, it'd be pretty easy to have great matches.  People even cite the match with Taka as an example of HHH's prowess --- it's Taka Michinoku!  Guy was a helluva wrestler!  It's easy to have a good match with him.

    HHH marrying Steph was, as Scott said, just the icing on the cake.  He was already semi-involved in booking meetings, he was Vince's prototype of a good wrestler and with Rock/Austin both out of action at roughly the same time, he was the ideal choice to get the major push.  Also, HHH never went to WCW.  Vince would've appreciated that kind of loyalty regardless.

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  32. "It was me, Dave!  It was me all along!!!  You all bought it hook, line and sinker!!!"  -- Vince "Scott Keith" McMahon

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  33. Trips was like Billy Gunn or Test- he was getting a push no matter what, and FUCK US if we didn't like it. He was basically in the same boat as they were (ie. big, ripped guy who Vince loved but the fans were iffy about) until his work picked up and he found a good character niche for himself (DeGenerate, then Evil Corporate Boss). The other two just never did. Had Billy Gunn found his niche (and sucked a little less), we'd have had WWF Champ William Gunn at some point, I guarantee you.

    And yeah, Vince was basically in lust with Hunter for years, so I think his push would be around the same. A high-level guy can refuse jobs all he likes unless Vince randomly decides he's sick of it (he never did with Shawn, but he sure did with Bret & Austin).

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  34. Wrestlers and fans judge matches by different standards.

    According to Lance Storm, Yokozuna is a better worker than RVD.

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  35. Nothing to do with a neck injury, Hollywood and everything injuries?

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  36. Didnt THE CATALYST Chad Bryant tell you about citing markboards to other markboards?

    tsk tsk mon frere

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  37. I have no idea who chad bryant is.

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  38. This is my question.

    What if Triple H didn't get the quad injury?  Would you still mind the Reign of Terror if he was in 2001 match mode?

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  39. Respectfully disagree. The Ayatollah of Rock and Rollah is a great babyface character to put up against a Wrestling is Serious Business and Nobody Can Have Any Fun heel. See also the Big Show vs. Kurt Angle feud that featured the Showster, or DX vs. the Hart Foundation any time Raw was in Texas.

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  40. The Invasion storyline would probably radically different, I'd assume instead of Rock being the "hero" for the WWF, it would be Trips.

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  41. Super Saiyan Chris Jericho has money written all over it.

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  42. Yokozuna is (was) a better worker than RVD, though.

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  43. makes sense, I don't think Yokozuna had a record of busting guys open hardway for working too stiff. If you were to do this as a ven diagram though I'm sure Daniel Bryan, or Eddie Guerrero would be the crossovers whom both the fans and the people in the biz consider great workers

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  44. This is kind of like what if HBK's back injury didn't happen in 98 and he doesn't go away for 4 years.

    I often wonder how different the Invasion storyline would be had Trips stayed. Would he be the "hero" for the WWF instead of The Rock? I'd also assume he'd be the first Undisputed Champ and not Jericho.

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  45. Hahahahaha...ahhhhh, good stuff.

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  46. Depends does he still cut racist promos on Booker T and win? I think once you're overly obnoxious you piss away the goodwill that having great matches gets you. It's like how most fans turned on Kurt Angle around the time he jumped to TNA: he was a god to many of us in WWE, but then he started giving bizarre self-agrandizing interviews on radio shows, held himself about the rest of the TNA tlaent, and even though the match quality mostly stayed, a lot of us just didn't like him anymore.

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  47. He would've been foolish to go to WCW, because by the time he got over as a star, the tide had turned and there really weren't any major defections from WWF-->WCW by then... in fact, it was going the other way (Big Show, Benoit, Eddy, etc.).

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  48. If it was easy, everyone could do it, but that's not the case. 

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  49. I've never been a fan of face Jericho. Too much pandering; I need egotistical Jericho or ripping the shit out of the fans Jericho. If he's saying hello to a city, it better damn well be a Spinal Tap reference and not going for the cheap pop.

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  50. Absolutely. HHH killed Goldberg's momentum dead at Summerslam, and I have no idea why (well, I know why, because HHH AT THE TOP IS WHAT'S GOOD FOR THIS BUSINESS, JACK). He was injured, he had a fucking out right there to drop the belt and have a reason to get his rematches ("You only won because I was hurt", etc.) and yet, fucking Evolution triumphs again. Ugh.

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  51. I'd think he'd be Alliance all the way considering Stephanie was the half leader

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  52. If HHH hadn't gotten the quad injury, i suspect the Invasion main event players would have gone a little differently.

    HHH joins the Alliance as not only is he Stephs husband but he's sick of playing second fiddle to Austin.
    Austin takes 3rd option and attacks anybody randomly.
    so you end up with Rock & Angle for the WWF against HHH & Booker for the Invasion

    Heck if Benoit didn't get injured either just think of the amazing Survivor Series finale we could have gotten
    Rock/Angle/Jericho/Undertaker Vs HHH/Booker/Benoit/RVD
    Steve Austin as special guest referee

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  53. William Gunn...

    Holy fuck you just solved the Bill Gunn problem!

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  54. I think Lawler was the only one dumb enough to try and defect to WCW after the Kat got fired. 

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  55. What does the Rock's neck injury, Foley's Hollywood dreams, and Austin's everything injuries have to do with anything?

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  56. Allegedly, Shane was sick of his father's verbal abuse.

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  57. The only question left to be asked is who would have won the HHH vs Total Package dream match that never happened.

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  58. Pound for pound, Yokozuna was a MUCH better worker than RVD.

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  59. "I don't think Yokozuna had a record of busting guys open hardway for working too stiff."

    Do you count internal bleeding?

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  60. He was some sort of wannabe wrestler, that hasn't been seen around here since Fuj tore him a new one.

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  61. I'd pick Lex. Only because I liked him better.

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  62. Suck on that Hawaiian T-Shirt Guy!

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  63. I didn't know Lawler tried to go to WCW. And they didn't pick him up? They picked up everyone!

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  64. But it was jobber who scored the like, because that wall of text that Scream typed out obscured his punchline.

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  65. Was it through a headset?

    Joking aside, is that true?

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  66. It was 2001, right before Wrestlemania. 

    ;-)

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  67. Jarrett jumping to WCW was a good move for him. He got a huge push, was a 4 time world champ (not that the WCW title was worth shit at that point, but still...), and ended up basically running his own promotion. Had he stayed with Vince he would have been buried in the midcard and never would have even got a sniff at the WWF/E title. Leaving the WWF was probably the best thing he ever did.

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  68. I know a lot of people rag on the guy, but seriously, The Catalyst is a great fucking wrestling moniker I'm surprised no one's come up with before. 

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  69. Even if he was wrestling at his 1999-2001 prime during the Reign of Terror, HHH wasn't getting five stars out of Kevin Nash. 

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  70.  actually, pound for pound, wouldn't yoko have to be the worse worker?  even if he's twice the worker Van Dam was/is, he's still 3 times the weight, so that talent gets spread out further.

    also, I'd much rather watch an rvd match, as a fan.

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  71.  My opinion isn't the same as yours (Face Jericho was the first guy I latched onto as a wrestling fan in 00), but the bigger issue is that he was hella over as a face.  If you can make his bones as a tippy top guy who sticks, he can do an eventual heel turn into a giant jerk later after he's been shown to stick.

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  72. The Love-Matic Grandpa!August 27, 2012 at 9:26 PM

    While I have no doubt that HHH would've been pushed regardless of his involvement with Stephanie, it IS doubtful that he would have received the DOOM-style God Push he has been on the receiving end of since the quad injury. With the exception of Undertaker, I can't think of a modern-day WWE wrestler who was booked so strongly and dominated as both a face AND a heel. Although that could change if Cena turns....

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  73. Jericho is the anti-thesis of HHH.  A smaller guy who is more charismatic, a generally better worker and remains over constantly despite losing a lot.

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  74. Considering how pretty Vince can be about these sort of things, I just realized had Triple H been dumb enough to dump Stephanie in the early 2000s, we might have been able to see The Game ply his wares in TNA. Chew on *that* for awhile.

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  75. I meant what I said!

    RVD sucks that much as a worker.

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  76. TNA could have really used him. When they first started it was mostly mid-carders, washed-up old guys, and indy wrestlers that 90% of fans have never heard of. Remember, their first world title match was between Ken Shamrock and The Wall. The Wall! Triple H would have been by FAR the biggest star they had. The only guys that even came close were Scott Hall (known for being second-fiddle to Kevin Nash and being shitfaced) and Jeff Jarrett (known for never drawing any heat on his own in his life despite getting a near HHH level push in the dying days of WCW), who combined didn't have half the drawing power of HHH. Had TNA put the title on HHH and made him the face of the company it would have given them the credibility they sorely needed. Of course, Russo's involvement meant that none of it would have really mattered in the long run...

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  77. Wait, are you guys serious? Shane really isn't employed by WWE anymore?

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  78. I wouldn't say he was ever a giant star independently. HHH was a brilliant worker for about a year and a half, and got himself over with existing wrestling fans due to his workrate and in-ring intensity. He's only ever worked with guys who drew money - he's never been a draw independently. 

    I'd say he also managed to inadvertently harm his own drawing power with casual fans, and overall WWE popularity (which has obvious and massive implications for his own star status and profile), at points due to his burial of popular people who were on the brink of breaking out. 

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  79. You haven't heard me rant on Angle yet, have you?

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  80. They don't have to do with anything...they have to do with EVERTHING!!!

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  81. I have not, and I'd love to hear it!

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  82. Angle is the worst kind of spot-monkey, he's got so many skills that another wrestler could use to be incredible, but instead all he does in his matches is prove how awesome he is.

    Lemme give you the rundown on an Angle match.  Pointless technical shit, suplex, reversal, suplex, reversal, suplex, crazy pointless move that makes zero sense for him trying to do, kick-out, reversal, suplex, suplex, suplex, kick-out, another crazy stupid move, kick-out, Angle Slam outta nowhere, kick-out, suplex, suplex, suplex, kick-out, reversal, TOP ROPE ANGLE SLAM OUTTA NOWHERE ONTO FLAMING TACKS!!!!, kick-out, suplex, suplex, suplex, ankle lock for fifteen minutes, opponent falls to sleep and Angle gets the pin.

    His matches are moves after moves after moves, with zero purpose or reason behind any of it.  I know that works for some people, but over years of it, he's desensitized people to his style and his spots and finishers are basically worthless.

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