Hey Scott,
Would a Cena heel turn on Ryback be a good way to spark some interest in Cena, keep Ryback strong and MAKE him in the process? I mean, obviously nothing is ever set in stone in terms of something getting over, but it just seems that if Cena screwed Ryback and shook hands with Punk and Heyman it would instantly make Ryback the number 1 babyface and could lead to Ryback "hunting" Cena down.
Of course, we've all thought about the Cena heel turn over and over and the odds of it happening are slim to none ... but it would be different at least.
Plus, what's the best way to get the crowd to HATE Punk? Put him with a heel Cena. Now the kids hate him AND the marks hate him.
Food for thought.
- Randyback
Would a Cena heel turn on Ryback be a good way to spark some interest in Cena, keep Ryback strong and MAKE him in the process? I mean, obviously nothing is ever set in stone in terms of something getting over, but it just seems that if Cena screwed Ryback and shook hands with Punk and Heyman it would instantly make Ryback the number 1 babyface and could lead to Ryback "hunting" Cena down.
Of course, we've all thought about the Cena heel turn over and over and the odds of it happening are slim to none ... but it would be different at least.
Plus, what's the best way to get the crowd to HATE Punk? Put him with a heel Cena. Now the kids hate him AND the marks hate him.
Food for thought.
- Randyback
Holy god dude, they are practically running panic drills because Cena can't make it to the PPV and they have no backup #2 babyface ready, and you think they're gonna turn him HEEL? Now? No way, man, if anything they're gonna push Cena even HARDER as a squeaky clean babyface because they think the Earth will fall into the sun if he doesn't main event every PPV, preferably while making Punk look like a doofus. If anything, they'd turn Ryback heel to set him up for Undertaker, but the Cena turn ain't ever happening. Sorry.
I can't see Cena turn heel but I did envision a Hogan-Sid Justice at RR 92-type bit happening as I thought they would go triple threat.
ReplyDeleteYou know that adage about wishing in one hand and shitting in the other and see what happens first?
ReplyDeleteWell, to every one of you lot who want Cena to turn heel, I suggest you start dropping trou. To quote the immortal Michael "Squints" Palledorous: "It's not an option, Smalls; FORGET ABOUT IT!"
"Put him with a heel Cena. Now the kids hate him AND the marks hate him."
ReplyDeleteI don't understand this logic. The so-called "marks" that boo face Cena out of spite will be the first ones to cheer him the second he turns heel. Cena is beyond stale but a heel turn isn't the fix. He just needs to show a little vulnerability and stop acting like such an annoying goofball.
As we all know fantasy booking is, uhm, not good... but I just wanna throw this possibility out there based around the premise of a Cena heel turn. Lemme know if you think this would be at all A) Interesting and B) In teh slightest bit possible
ReplyDeleteHIAC: Punk retains via Lesnarference
RR: Daniel Bryan wins the Royal Rumble. John Cena, the last man eliminated, is CRUSHED.
Later that same night a distraught John Cena comes to the ruing and costs The Rock the match.
EC: The Undertaker enters and wins the Chamber, doing the least amount that anyone has ever done to win a cage match.
Which gives us a Wrestlemania of:
WWE Title: Punk vs Bryan (Bryan wins. Punk shakes his hand. Leads to Punk turning on Heyman and turning face again.)
WHC: Sheamus vs Taker. (Fuck it, Sheamus ends The Streak. Oh, and Ziggler teases a cash in.)
Grudge: Cena vs Rock (Cena wins, goes full heel)
Grudge: Ryback vs Lesnar (Ryback wins.)
Would leave with Sheamus, Bryan, Ryback, and eventually Punk as megafaces. And Cena as the heel who dominates the company for the next year.
as opposed to the face who dominated for the last decade.
ReplyDeleteCena heel turn = Cena face turn.
SAME THING.
Cena/Taker for WM30, then he can "turn heel"
There is a potential nuclear option to salvage all of this, even though it would blow up the current plot and swing it so far into left field so as to give people whiplash. This coming Monday, have Punk act increasingly paranoid about his match with Ryback in the Cell, to the point that Heyman assuages his fear by saying "Don't worry, I've got an insurance plan—BROCK LESNAR". So make it known that Lesnar will be in Atlanta on the 28th. However, in the Cell, have Lesnar come in and turn on Punk, establishing Heyman as the ultimate con artist by siding with the new hot property Ryback and leaving the whiny champion on his own.
ReplyDeleteThis aborts the largely-failed Punk heel turn and creates a repeat of last year's Survivor Series setup with the unlikely pairing of CM Punk and John Cena taking on Brock Lesnar and Ryback. From here, you can split off Punk to face Lesnar and have Cena chase Ryback for the title. Then, you can put Cena over Ryback for the title at Rumble, let Rock win the Rumble itself and build towards Rock/Cena II for the WWE Title. I still think Lesnar should face the Undertaker personally over Ryback for the buyrate, though I kind of like the idea of getting Rock/Lesnar II over Rock/Cena II as well. In any event, though it would insure that Cena's on the top of the world again (again, etc.), they would at least have options to work with.
Gets it, This guy.
ReplyDeleteCena turns heel, guess what? Everybody cheers him.
D'oh!
I think there's two major differences with Cena dominating as a heel as opposed to a face:
ReplyDelete1) Correct crowd reaction, in that the crowd would be booing the guy you WANT them to boo, rather than booing your supposed top face.
2) As a heel, in the end he'd put the good guy over. Sure he wins a few feuds, but then you pick your 1-2 top faces that you want to beat him (say, Bryan and Ryback) and in the end they do. As opposed to Cena dominating as a top face, in which he wins EVERY feud and never gets comeuppance (and when he does lose, it's by interference and he brushes the challenger off.)
Basically, a heel Cena would get the correct reaction AND as a heel he could eventually lose clean and make babyface stars.
The premise is sound, but I think if you turn Punk face with the ol' Sting option (his partner turns on him) then he looks like a geek, and the fan response to him won't be as strong as it once was. ESPECIALLY a character like Punk, whose thing is to be smarter than the rest. I think whenever Punk turns face again it needs to be via the Andre-Heenan option, where he gets fed up and beats down the heel manager.
ReplyDeleteI dunno man, you hear that theory a lot but I just don't buy it. The people who hate John Cena REALLY hate him, and have hated him for a decade, and are dying for the entire crowd to share in that hate. Think back to the nWo— Hall & Nash were getting cheers, but they were basically going out of their way to be cool guys that pandered to the crowd. But Hulk (who is a direct comparison to the situation cena is in now) was getting nuclear heel heat that whole run. No matter which face they put him against, the crowds wanted to see Hogan get killed.
ReplyDeleteI think a formula of pandering companyman that crowds have despised for years PLUS also doing heelish things and feuding with guys that the crowd likes = nuclear heel heat.
Also, the argument is usually that Cena will get "cool" heel heat from the smarks. But that's acting under the assumption that John Cena can ever portray himself as "cool", which is totally unfounded. I mean, his "coolest" persona was a white rapper that basically got over for the novelty of letting the crowds curse. If Cena turns heel while keeping the basics of his persona (company man, lame insults, general goofiness) while doing heelish things and feuding with faces, he'd be Hollyywood Hogan level for sure.
The one thing I like about this? It has a spiritual kinship to Heyman turning on Brock for Big Show at SurSer '02.
ReplyDeleteI think the main reason for a Cena heel turn to be crapped on by most of us here would be that he would instantly turn into a coward and get jobbed out most of the time - so in total contrast to now, a win over him would be meaningless after a few weeks (think of all the top heels in the promotions right now: Punk is the only one that could give a winner a "rub" - but he was a face for most of his run).
ReplyDeleteI really don't understand why people think the smarks would cheer a heel Cena. We don't like him, and want the whole crowd booing him with us.
ReplyDeleteExactly. He's built up years of genuine hatred with a huge portion of the crowd. To that portion of the crowd, he's never getting cheered— not as a face, or a heel, or 10 years from now when he does a Rock-like return after a long absence, at his HoF induction. Fans legitimately hate this guy in a way that modern wrestling fans never hate anyone anymore. At some point, they really need to capitalize on that.
ReplyDeleteYep, I think that's a fundamental difference between Cena and Hogan situations. Hogan was aging, his era was kayfabe passing him by and the only way for him to stay on top was to become the ratfuck who cheated to win, always ducked challengers, and recruited half the roster as his lackeys to protect the belt. Cena has done nothing but win, so why would he need to start cheating? If he had lost to Rock, lost to Brock, been 'replaced' in the main event by Punk, Bryan, Sheamus, et al, and had struggled to regain any titles, then he could do the desperation heel turn, goin as far as to turn on his fans & friends in order to stay on top. Right now, with Cena being so clearly on top of everyone else, working clean as a sheet, there would be no kayfabe reason for him to just spontaneously become a ratfuck cocky heel.
ReplyDeleteand what's funny is Hogan is MUCH cooler than Cena. Hogan's got this natural quirkiness about him (that boarders on complete & utter weirdness), like calling Brutus Beefcake "Brother Bruti," and playing air guitar the World title. Cena's all cornball. He's all "wholesome American values," mixed with Ace Ventura jokes. Even going back to his "cool" days as a rapper, in retrospect he was a giant poseur. Remember this started with him dressed as Vanilla Ice; not Eminem (happy birthday), not Snoop Dogg--Vanilla fucking Ice. No street cred there. At least Hogan had the good taste to come out to Hendrix!
ReplyDeleteHogan was aging, but it was never presented that way in the booking up until he turned heel. From a storyline standpoint Hogan had just spent two years dominating WCW, running through Flair, Horsemen, Vader, and dozens of Dungeon of Doomers. He was still being presented as unbeatable in the ring, not an aging wrestler who needed to cheat. He turned for the same reason Cena could turn at any moment: a huge portion of teh crowd was booing him.
ReplyDeleteAs for giving cena a reason, all he needs is one big lose and to actually ACT LIKE IT AFFECTED HIM, and boom there's a reason for a turn. he doesn't need to lose for a year and find himself in the gutter before he tuns, he just needs to lose one match that he thought he was going to win, and he snaps. Doing that the night after last year's Mania would have been perfect. Or for example, if WWE were to build this year's Rumble as "John Cena is determined to win and then face The Rock", and then Cena were to LOSE the Rumble match? There ya go. Cena flips out and turns heel.
Not saying I think they will do that. I mean, they may NEVER turn him heel. But that's not because of a lack of opportunity.
Totally. Even to older fans or smarks, Hogan is likeable because of how batshit insane everything about him was. He doesn't TRY to be funny or entertaining, he just is. Cena on the other hand...well we all know the deal. He's the worst case scenario of someone who has no sense of humor yet tells more jokes than anyone. He really and truly is unlikeable, and if he just kept being himself as a heel, there's no doubt the people who hate him would continue hating him.
ReplyDeleteI kind of brought this up a few weeks ago in a Raw thread. I was hoping that Foley/Punk promo was planting the seeds for a re-turn or Heyman betrayal.
ReplyDeleteCena's probably had 3 matches in the last 3 years that "personally affected him" and they could of pulled the trigger and they didn't.
ReplyDelete