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Horsemen Questions

Scott,

A few random Four Horsemen-related questions:

- In 1991, the Horsemen included Flair, Arn, Windham, and Sid.  Of those four, Flair and Sid took off for the WWF by summer.  How did they end the Horsemen in WCW at that point?  Did Flair & Sid just stop appearing on TV, or did they have any on-screen explanations or dissolution of the stable?


Nope.  The group was basically done after Flair's reveal as the Black Scorpion and they kind of just stopped associating with each other.  Flair was doing that goofy El Gigante feud and Windham/AA went off on their own as a team, more or less.

- Do you think Tully Blanchard could have been a world champion, or was he too much like Flair character-wise?

I don't think anyone would have bought him as the top guy, no.

- Through all the early incarnations of the Horsemen, they never really went with an angle where the group got tired of Flair and someone new rose to take over the group. The storyline seems tailor-made--afterall, the group existed for the sake of protecting Flair's title and the others were relegated to the secondary titles.  Did they ever have plans of having someone oust Flair and take over the group?  Off the top of my head, I can envision a late-80s face run for Flair in which Tully gets jealous and commandeers the group and Flair has to go through Arn, Tully, and Ole/Windham as a solo guy.

I never heard of any plans in that direction. 

- We have not seen a WWE version of the Horsemen (other than derivative versions like Evolution), but was there ever any talk of one being formed?

Well, yeah, Evolution.  That's where the group came from.  

- How in the world did we end up with Paul Roma as a Horseman?  Was Flair high on him backstage for some reason?

They couldn't get Tully and Roma would work for food at that point I'm sure, so we got what we got.  Ole likes people who work cheap and don't question him.

- Do you think Vader should have been a Horseman at some point (perhaps '94 with Flair, Arn, & Austin against Hogan & company?) or was he better off as a solo monster act?

Vader as a Horsemen would have been a terrible idea.  Sid was bad enough.


Comments

  1. The best version of the Horsemen that never happened was Flair, Anderson, Austin, and Pillman.

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  2. Yikes, Vader as a Horseman? That wouldn't have been a good fit at all. I don't think Sid was that bad of a choice storyline wise. The story could've been that he was a big young guy they wanted for muscle but they didn't take into account how nuts and individualistic he is. They learn from their earlier mistake with Lugar and eventually turn on him before he turns on them and goes after Flair.

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  3. I think Vader as a Horsemen could have worked as a short term angle. For example, Flair is feuding with Sting and he brings in Vader as a Horsemen to help him destroy Sting. But Vader is such a monster, Flair can't control him and Vader eventually flips out and takes out the Horsemen.

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  4. The best version that never happened was Flair, Anderson, Pillman and Benoit

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  5. Wait...OHHHHH I see what you did there. Bravo.

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  6. I have to disagree. Vader was a guy that putting him in any group would have hurt his credibility. Why would a guy with his size and power, and could do intimidating promos, answer even one day to a man he could have broken in half. I don't see any good from it. Same with Sid, as he should have been a one man army, power bombing his way through the company, not dressed in a suit and standing a foot above the other guys. For my money, as far as that bouncer role, I would nominate Warlord. He's a guy who couldn't do a promo to save his life, so he'd have been perfect in the background snarling. He was a nobody for the most part that no one expected to be anything on his own. I wouldn't mind him as the ringside muscle, beating up a guy who was fighting Flair when he was out the ring, and he could have had a long shelf life because there would have been no desire to break him off into a singles run.

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  7. I agree. I get the feeling Flair and company were not comfortabke having a guy a foot taller than everybody else.

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  8. I'm not saying Vader should have dressed up in a suit or anything like that, just be a hired gun.


    Sting is plowing through the Horsemen on his way to get at Flair for the World title. Flair is desperate so he turns to Vader to take him out. Vader does his job but wants Flair's title. Sting is out and so are the Horsemen so Flair is all alone against Vader. Vader beats Flair for the title and eventually Sting and the Horsemen have to work together to stop the monster that Flair unleashed.


    I dunno about you, but that is a story I could dig.

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  9. Everyone rags on Roma (and rightfully so) as a Horseman. But for my money, the worst ever Horseman was Mongo. I hated that guy with a passion as he was such a joke of a wrestler/announcer/whatever (seriously, why did this guy get such a huge break in wrestling?!) and him walking around with the four fingers with actual pros like Arn and Flair just made me sick.

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  10. Best Horsemen group that could have happened that didn't: Flair, Arn, Stan Lane, and Bobby Eaton. That was a plan in early 1990 to the point where it was getting teased on television with a Cornette/Woman business arrangement being talked up. Cornette would have slid into commentary full-time.

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  11. He had a legit sports background. He was a super bowl champion; which made him more credible than 70% of the WCW roster at the time.

    I don't think he was that bad of an announcer as he would always put over the WCW product, Monday Nitro and the cruiserweight wrestlers.

    He just seem like he was having fun as a wrestler.

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  12. There's a part of me that would have loved to see Vader as the Horsemen muscle, but wearing a suit AND the facemask. The visual is great.


    The "group recruits the next big thing rookie who gets pissed off at protecting the champ/not getting a shot at the big belt and gets turfed for challenging" is such an obvious and easy storyline that I'm surprised it isn't used more often. Luger/Flair is the obvious one, as well as essentially everyone in Evolution/HHH (except Flair). Windham could have done it (although he never really had the mic skills to carry the belt for an extended period. I'd like to see WWE do it with the Heyman Army or whatever they're going to call this group, as well. You create a new star by association and have an automatic top babyface once he does the inevitable split.

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  13. Rollins splitting off and turning babyface to go against Punk seems inevitable.

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  14. (other than derivative versions like Evolution)


    Yeah, other than that one group that was pretty much a direct descendant of the Four Horsemen, and had Ric Flair in the group, and was in every other way absolutely a modern version of the Horsemen, and whose name directly implied being an evolved version of said group, why has no Horseman-like group ever been formed in WWE?

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  15. Evolution was worse than the Horsemen with Mongo and Kenny Kaos or whoever was involved. Gah they sucked.

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  16. TheRealCitizenSnipsNovember 26, 2012 at 1:23 PM

    I've said it before, I'll say it again. Paul Roma was no Ric Flair but he was far from the worst Horseman ever. Taken out of the context of knowing who he was, he at least was capable of LOOKING like he belonged in the group.

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  17. Mongo sucked as a wrestler but he could bring it on the stick. I think in an alternate universe where he went into wrestling instead of football, he could have been big.

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  18. Okay, but make him a Hardcore Holly or a Hacksaw Jim Duggan type of performer. Not with the freakin' Four Horsemen!

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  19. I disagree strongly. I really enjoyed Evolution throughout 2004. Especially in the spring/summer with Orton as IC champ.

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  20. I liked Sid as a Horseman. Better than Ole, anyway (yeah, I said it).

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  21. I patiently await flaming, but I didn't think Roma as a Horsemen was such a horrible idea. At least not in theory. He was a cocky pretty boy who liked the nightlife and had the potential to be decent in the ring - he fit the mold. Of course, things went south quickly but I don't fault them for trying.

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  22. I had no problems with Mongo as a Horseman. I thought had they used him strictly as Flair's personal protector there was plenty of use for him. But he wrestled too much and he wasn't very good so because he wasn't credible as a wrestler it killed what should have been a nice little role for him.

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  23. You guys leave Mongo alone!

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  24. I hope they planning something similar with Heyman, Punk and the new NXT guys.

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  25. Yeah, but I don't think Mongo should be included as a best of anything, even in a punchline.

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  26. Man, I am shocked how much love Mongo is getting on this blog resulting from my post. I thought ya'll would be with me here!

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  27. The best Horsemen line up is Flair, Windham, Arn, and Tully.


    I still feel Mongo and Roma were horrible choices despite what anyone says.

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  28. It's seen as very much a stable of the past.

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  29. The only reason I'll argue Mongo, is because Flair says Mongo was as good a Horseman as there's ever been. Also if Sid didn't stab Arn, I'm sure he'd be seen in better Horseman light.

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  30. I've seen Flair defend him but I still don't buy it. I understand they needed the muscle but the Horsemen were always WRESTLERS, Sid could of been awesome he just never evolved. I agree that he would be seen better if the fight with Arn didn't happen. If I remember correctly, that when Mongo came in it was because Pillman had left. If that was the case they should of brought in Malenko and not waited.

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  31. I like to think that the Horsemen ended in a freeze frame with subtitle to tells us what everyone went on to do. Ric Flair went on to get divorced 16 times--he was recently punched by his newest bride...Tully Blanchard decided that Jesus was just alright with him...Arn Anderson gave up his spot, not a grease spot, not his dog Spot, just the spot that's all he has in the world dammit...Barry Windham was eaten alive by a monster which looked remarkably like Barry Windham.

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  32. I'll put Malenko up with Roma as one of the worst Horsemen ever. He could wrestle his ass off but didn't fit the image at all. I honestly can't think of one memorable thing Malenko did as a Horsemen. At least Roma won the tag titles.

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  33. I disagree, I think he fit like a glove by the time he was a Horsemen though they were already yesterdays news and didn't have much of a chance to do anything of note. He was a no nonsense technical wrestler, he wasn't a great talker but not all of them needed to be.

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  34. Mongo got positive reactions from the crowd. And on this board too it seems. Mongo-ing crazy reading all these comments.

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  35. Malenko and Benoit DID win the tag titles, but I agree with you.

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  36. The fact that I don't remember that proves my point.

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  37. It's kinda your fault. Your videos has made him into a cult hero.

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  38. I would like to direct everyone over to the Forum of Doom to participate in The Steve "Mongo" McMichael Appreciation Thread(The SMMAT for short) I set up. Mongo for the Hall of Fame in 2013!!!

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  39. I know.

    Check the sarcasm meter.

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  40. Well, in a manner of speaking any faction led by the top heel is similar to the Horsemen, if they primarily serve to protect the champ, putting more heat on him and getting themselves over in the process.

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  41. yeah... you almost got me watch CHIKARA...


    ALMOST...

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  42. cuz heels arent booked donminant for too long up north.

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  43. The only time I ever liked Orton was when he was IC champ.

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  44. Wasn't the group actually called "Evilution" for the first week or two?

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  45. The best version of the Horsemen that never happened was Flair, Hulk Hogan, Lou Thesz, and Abraham Lincoln.

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  46. The 1991 Horsemen ended when Flair got fired over the contract dispute. The Horseman (With Larry Z filling in for Double A) vs. Sting, Pillman and the Steiners at Wrestle War '91 and they were billed as the Horsemen in that match and that was after the Black Scorpion. Flair was gone pre Great American Bash and Sid left at the Bash. Windham turned face after his match with Lugar and Arn Anderson floated around until the Dangerous Alliance took off.

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  47. Proves your point...or proves your ignorance?

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  48. What was so memorable about their tag title run that I should remember it?

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  49. Wasn't there a rumor in 1995 that Flair wanted the new edition of the Horsemen to be himself, Curt Hennig, and the Road Warriors, but Hulk Hogan vetoed that idea and tried to pitch a Horsemen group of himself, Flair, Sting, and Randy Savage? The idea of Hogan being a Horsemen makes me laugh.

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  50. I'm not sure how accurate it is but I've read/heard several accounts that had DiBiase not gone to the WWF he was going to be positioned as the leader of the Horsemen with them turning on Flair. I actually think could have been pretty huge.

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  51. Malenko proved in WWE with his 007-esque ladie's man gimmick he could fit in with the Horsemen. He just joined at a time when the Horsemen weren't given much of anything to do.

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  52. The question was whether a version of the Four Horsemen was planned. As in, did WWF/E ever plan on making an actual "Four Horsemen" group. Obviously there have been other groups similar to them, hence the "derivative versions" part.

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  53. Yeah, I think it makes sense for a bunch of heels to have someone around as the "muscle".

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  54. Never heard that one, but it's pretty hilarious

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  55. That match with Saturn & Raven was pretty sick, but your point is well taken

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  56. Yeah I agree. The Sid version was the first version I was exposed to in real time. (I was about 7 or 8 at the time). So Sid always gets a nostalgia pass from me.

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  57. Hryman's got his own Dangerous Alliance from the past he can ape from.

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  58. Plus Ric and Arn legit liked Mongo as opposed to Sid or Roma, so immediately the chemistry was better with him than with others.

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  59. yeah I certainly remember that being floated around in the very beginning.

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  60. Once a Horseman, always a Horseman - except you, Sting, you're not gonna be a Horseman...any more.

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  61. Stopped associating with each other? They had the awesome WarGames match in '91 with the infamous "Sid powerbombs Pillman dead" spot!

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  62. To be fair, they had the "Arn gets tired of Flair" angle in '95, which Arn had a huge problem with as detailed on the 4 Horsemen DVD (he claims he threw up either after the main Fall Brawl promo or the match itself). Of course it was all a swerve in the end, but they did tease something like dissension.

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  63. The reason I was never a huge fan of Evolution was b/c it was so contrived. The original Horsemen were organic and pure luck, right place/right time. Even 'D/X was organic in the sense that the NAO just sort of drifted in by association, and then Waltman became a free agent, not to mention that the original version of HHH/HBK was put together for the hell of it.


    But Evolution was produced and anticipated, which to me took off some of its potential. And let's be honest, no one really remembers any great Evolution moments besides the turn on Orton and then Batista turning face.

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  64. To me, the greatest Horsemen that never were are Randy Savage, Rick Rude, Ted Dibiase, and Steve Austin. Any one of those guys would've been perfect. Also, an late-1989/early 1990 Horsemen group in the WWF with Flair. Anderson, Rude, and Mr.Perfect(and managed by Bobby Heenan)would've been great.

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