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Ryback Equals $$$

From todays Observer news update...

" -Hell  in a Cell did 200,000 buys on PPV, of which 152,000 were in North America.  The latter number is way up from most WWE comparable WWE events.  On the flip side, overseas numbers were well down from usual.  "

Hard to argue those numbers as far as interest in Ryback challenging goes.

Comments

  1. Oh so we're not giving Kane & Daniel Bryan any of the credit? Psshhh


    Also, one thing about Ryback, I wish he would stop marching around before he hits his finisher. Is it just me or does it look plain stupid?

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  2. No love for Punk for that buyrate?

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  3. I think it looks impressive. He is going to take his time and march you around the ring because there is nothing you can do to stop it.

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  4. It didn't bother me at first but I don't know it just looks dorky now. I thought he was just showing off in squash matches and maybe he'd leave it out against Punk and Cena

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  5. So even though buyrates have been up with Punk main eventing, it has zero to do with him?

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  6. Hey, he's like a fucking mid-carder and such.

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  7. The problem with buy rates is you can attribute it to whoever you like on the card. It's subjective.

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  8. I've never understood the idea that one guy is responsible for a PPV increase, especially a three hour multi-branded one. And at a time when WWE has an actual tag division that it built up and is giving air time, Bryan/Kane is generating tons of crowd reactions, Big Show/Sheamus is the best thing either man has done for ages, Rey's back, Punk, Orton and Cena blahblah...and Ryback gets credit. Hm.

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  9. On a loaded card at a big PPV maybe. But this was a B show with no Cena on the undercard. The percentage of people that bought this show for something other than the main event is less than one.

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  10. Prove it. Or is that just your opinion and therefore subjective like I said?

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  11. This was a 'free' PPV in the UK available to Sky subscribers at no extra cost. That, presumably, affects the international number.

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  12. Not that I have anything against him, but it's not Ryback that = money, it's the intrigue of what WWE might do with Ryback vs. Punk that = money. Let's just wait and see how it plays out. :)

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  13. In other news, Hulk Hogan just happened to realize all on his own that Ryback is ready, brother.

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  14. Honestly? Yes. The show was built on him VS Punk, and those two should get the credit. Show/Sheamus was nothing at all special UNTIL Hell in a Cell when the two actually had a very good match that greatly exceeded expectations with Show winning the title. Before that it was pretty cookie cutter build. Cena wasn't on the PPV, and the rest of the matches are pretty much things that are on TV all the time (Orton/Del Rio, Rey/Sin Cara VS PTP, Kingston VS Miz had literally been on TV two or three times right before the PPV, Cesaro VS Gabriel had just been done twice). The only one that hadn't been overdone at that point was Kane/Bryan VS Rhodes Scholars, but I'd be surprised if people were rushing to buy PPVs for that match. I like all the guys involved but it wasn't going to make me drop 50 bucks, especially when you knew there'd be more rematches on free TV. Punk VS Ryback was the one "different" match. I think there's some truth to the idea that with only a few exceptions (like Rock returning), one single person isn't going to generate a ton of buys, that a lot of it is a "variety show", but if you're going to give credit based on the buyrate, Punk/Ryback is the match that the PPV was sold on, moreso than any other.

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  15. It's kinda sad that in 2012 152,000 buys is considered a good number.

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  16. That's true. While I didn't pay for it, the only reason I watched the match was to see how they would get themselves out of the corner they booked themselves into. It had nothing to do with any interest in Ryback himself.

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  17. It's subjective but it's also an educated subjective. He's not just saying it because "I LIKE PUNK SO IT MUST BE TRUE" (which, honestly, seems to be what you're doing). This wasn't loaded with unique and interesting midcard matches that could have helped generate buys. Let's set aside the Diva's match, nobody buys for those. All but three of the matches have been done to death on free TV, with both secondary title matches literally being done 2-3 times each right before the PPV. Nobody is paying $50 to see a match they just saw unless it was a 5 star spectacular, and they weren't. The matches that weren't overdone were Show/Sheamus (which ended up being a really good match, but prior to the PPV had a fairly cookie cutter build to it, and didn't become more interesting UNTIL Hell in a Cell) and Hell No VS Rhodes Scholars (which might have sold a couple PPVs, but I'd be very surprised if a bunch of people were paying for that match). The PPV was sold on Ryback VS Punk, pretty much. You can say that's subjective, sure, but it's an educated opinion based on what was being built up, who was on the PPV, which matches had just been given away on free TV, etc. It's not "just as right" as claiming, for example, the PPV was sold on Cesaro VS Gabriel.



    And anyway, isn't this what everyone including WWE has been doing with Cena for years now? Giving him all the credit and calling him a huge draw? He objectively sells a lot of merchandise, no question there, but drawing PPV buys is subjective, yet it appears to widely be considered the case.

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  18. ill man up and say punk is a heel drawing champ.


    ryback did not heavy lift that number.


    maybe the buyers paid cuz of no john cena???

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  19. I would agree with this. I think the PPV was absolutely sold on Ryback VS Punk, but that doesn't necessarily mean Ryback himself was the big draw, it could just be people seeing something different and wondering whether Ryback would win the title or whether Punk would end his undefeated streak (since the HiaC stip made it one or the other).

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  20. I don't dislike Ryback, but that is also the reason I wanted to see the match.

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  21. Regardless who gets credit for it, it's nice that it happened on a show that didn't feature Cena. Maybe Vince will see that having Johnny boy shoved down our throats in the main event of every ppv ahead of your WWE champion is unnecessary.

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  22. I don't dislike him either, though I can't say I really care about about who's a blatant ripoff of a guy I didn't give a damn about to begin with. I only cared about the title vs. winning streak aspect and what sort of screwy finish they'd use to get out of it.

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  23. The no Cena thing may very well have been a big part of it. Certainly didn't hurt when it comes to the older crowd.

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  24. Side note: No Impact thread tonight?

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  25. I don't need to prove that people didn't buy the ppv for Cesaro vs Gabriel. It's common sense.

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  26. Good point, hopefully it will bring some more variety to the product.

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  27. I'll tell you what won't be considered a good number: various sites are reporting that Survivor Series only had 8,000 people paid. Doubt Indy will be getting another PPV anytime soon.

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  28. That's true, those numbers are quite sad when they match the numbers of a bad period for the company. But, in 1995, their weren't a proliferation of torrent sites, and other sites you could just watch it for free. Back then, you REALLY had to know what to do get a free PPV, like building or knowing where to find a descrambler.

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  29. Thread jack: Tony romo scored 80 pts in the bodffl...wtf

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  30. Sounds like QB's are weighed too heavily.

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  31. But access to ppv has increased tremendously since 1995 so whatever smarks watch free streams is more than made up by a larger pool of available consumers.

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  32. Yeah PPV access in the US was between 25 and 30 million in 1995 and over 70 million today, so I think a lack of interest drives the numbers, with stuff like streams as a minor factor. I think PPV itself has probably lost some of its shine as a delivery method for whatever reason too as it was a rough year in general.

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  33. What makes this number more interesting is that, Cena didn't wrestle on this show

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  34. They are.


    I overcompensated because of the 16 team cap and gave bonuses for passing yards and td bonuses for over +40yd tds.


    elite QB + above average RB= undefeatable

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  35. canned impacts = no live thread

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  36. I still don't think Ryback should be the argument for the buyrate. I think it more has to do with people want to see Punk lose and they want to see who will do it. Ryback was built up in a way to make it seem like Punk would lose and still does. So I think it's more people wanting to see Punk lose rather than "Oh, Ryback...order."

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  37. I think it works because that moment when someone finally jumps out during it and hits their finisher they are gonna get a great reaction for a nearfall and/or finish.

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  38. I'll expand my comment a little. While it's true that PPV itself has a larger consumer base, it has become for probably a huge percentage a luxury expense. Not sure about our international site-mates, but I know in our economiclly-challenged country, 40-50 a month is a big hit for just a three hour show. I consider my income to be stable, but I have seen both friends and family who thought the same lose their jobs in a moment's notice or have their hours reduced. I have been a life long wrestling fan, and even before I lost my interest in watching the current WWE product, I found it next to impossible to justify that expense every month, as this year I only ordered Royal Rumble and WrestleMania from the E, and Destination X and Bound For Glory from the slightly cheaper TNA. And to justify those purchases to myself and my fiance, I worked extra hours to cover them. I know that PPV itself is widely more available, but money is becoming less available. So those fans who still follow the product may have found alternative methods to see those shows. And wrestling isn't exactly the huge phenom it once was no matter how you spin the "social media" numbers, so out of those 70 million households, is the increase over the numbers who are "wrestling" households significantly larger itself? If it were close to the same, then, yes, the streaming sites and the torrent sites would cause more of a lack of potential buyers.

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  39. Good point, when's the last time ANYONE bought a movie off of Pay-Per-View? By that, I mean old-school Pay-Per-View, not Redbox, Vudu, Blockbuster, etc.?

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  40. My parents do all the time, but they are in their 60s, so they may not be a great example.

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  41. So, from the WWE perspective the strategy still worked...

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  42. Not going to happen. Current WWE main event style seems to dictate not breaking up a guy's finisher until AFTER he's done whatever idiotic taunt comes beforehand.

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  43. above average QB + elite RB = undefeatable as well. Hence why I started at 0-6 but am 4-1 since Doug Martin figured his shit out. And likely to be 5-1 after Tony fucking Romo went off for 80.

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  44. And Brady went for 79...

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  45. There were also fewer entertainment options in general. The staggering amount of on demand video products and specialty cable channels has drastically lowered rating shares for across the board.

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  46. Wow. That has to rival the '97 AlamoDome RR for most papered major PPV.

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  47. Ironic it was in Indy, since that's a paid attendance number I associate with Indys

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  48. We'll see, Undefeated vs tittle=$$$ but how will Ryback fare going onward

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  49. THREAD JACK-is there no SmarK rant for Impact tonight

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  50. LOL... Actually I had this wrong, it was 8,500 total, and the Observer said it was, and I quote, "heavily papered". The arena holds a little over 18,000 for basketball. They had a house show in Anaheim (a metro area with well over 10,000,000 people) a few weeks ago that had 3,500 people. Not good...

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  51. Not that well, I still didn't buy it.

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  52. I wonder how much the DVD market is hurting the pay-per-view buys. You can get the ppv for $59.95 live, or wait five weeks and get the DVD for less than $20 most times. Does getting to watch it live ahead of time really matter? Outside of WrestleMania and the Rumble (and a show like Money in the Bank 2011), I don't feel like it matters.


    Of course, I'm to the point now where I'm barely buying the DVDs of the ppvs anymore, either.

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  53. I was thisclose to buy Safety Not Guaranteed on ppv from my cable company, then realized it was $1 cheaper from iTunes via Apple TV (it would have been 720p I think v. 1080p from the cable company, but I would have been okay with that for this movie), but then I decided to watch free TV instead. So.... yeah.

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  54. That AlamoDome show was like half-papered....

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  55. That's a good question and I think it makes a lot of sense. At one time, it was $29.95 for the PPV and $59.95 for the VHS --- and except for WrestleMania it was usually a couple of months until it came out for rental. Now it's the other way around. If the shows aren't thought of as "must see" events then I can see a lot of people waiting.

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  56. Can't believe you missed the obvious title of "Ryback = Ry-bucks"

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  57. Well, there's the Collision in Korea shows that had a combined 390,000 unpaid crowd (though those numbers are suspect), but I'm thinking that doesn't really count.

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  58. It's interesting, because historically PPV prices are thought of as having little to do with buyrates, most likely because the majority of PPV purchases are last minute orders. Prices have risen with inflation, but are definitely outpacing it by a little these days.



    There are no statistics, but I would be surprised if streams make the kind of impact some people seem to think they do in comparison to years gone by. You certainly had black boxes "back in the day" that potentially reduced the customer base, but I actually think a good chunk of the people that watch streams now (and those with black boxes in the past) would not otherwise watch the events if they weren't free, so I don't that there are a lot of potential customers they are missing out on there. You can get a good looking copy of the show on a torrent, but most of the streams are pretty rough these days, and I doubt many people would be watching them on their 50" TVs. I imagine you have a lot of kids and teenagers watching them whose parents would never purchase the shows monthly to begin with. Just my two cents though.

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  59. Yeah PPV has never lived up to the kind of promise the industry expected, it's been a very up and down business over the years. By the time they worked out the issues with distribution, a lot of the things that were big draws (wrestling and boxing) were suffering, plus it never really expanded beyond event television, movies, and the occasional concert as far as mass appeal.

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  60. Yeah, I believe they gave out about 12,000 tickets free and clear for Royal Rumble 1997, but the majority of the tickets they did sell were extremely cheap. They did about 48,000 paid fans, but with a gate of only about $480,000 -- for comparison purposes, WCW ran a Nitro there and drew about 20,000 paid fans with a $450,000 gate.

    WrestleMania 8 was another big one -- I believe the final numbers came in with about 15,000 tickets given away.

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  61. Yeah, I think we talked about this before, but I've always been very suspicious of those numbers too. I've only ever seen the WCW PPV feed of the event, but they don't show a single wide shot of the crowd. It's very quiet too -- even for a disinterested crowd.


    When they did those Japan Supershow PPVs they would pan the crowd constantly and reuse shots of the crowd for their later PPV promos to hype them up. If I was a promoter and had access to footage of the biggest two wrestling crowds ever, I'd have about a million shots of it from every conceivable angle.

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  62. Exactly. TLC is in New York though, so I'd expect a MUCH better crowd.

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  63. Well, it wouldn't surprise me if they weren't showing the crowd because there were soldiers with AK-47s all over the place or something, and that might explain why they were so quiet, probably afraid they would be taken out back and shot if they made any noise. I checked, and the stadium does hold 150,000 (though who even knows if THAT number is legit), so with floor seats 190,000 isn't out of the realm of possibility. I just find it suspect because A: Promoters lie about attendance all the time, and B: North Korea has never been truthful about anything, ever.



    And by having 2 discussions involving North Korea, we're both probably on some sort of federal watch list now...

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  64. Yeah, something was surely off, just not sure what it was.

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  65. Wait...what? 300,000+?! I know nothing about this and I'm calling immediate BS.

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  66. Ohhh...this was in N. Korea. Yeah, that 300k+ has to be an insane exaggeration. I'm off to wikipedia to read about this.

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  67. I didn't watch the PPV, but I'm assuming they at least tried to make the plaace look full. If so, that's a TON of free tickets as Conseco holds 20,000ish for basketball. If they didn't paper it to infinity it must have looked like shit on TV.

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  68. There's not really much on Wikipedia, just the match results.

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  69. Vince is too deluded not to spin it in a way that favo

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  70. Point is, have Ryback vs someone like big show (someone who generally doesn't draw big numbers on his own, but who's presence easily gives a main event vibe) as your main event (aka most built up match on the raw brand) over a weak undercard with no main eventers, THEN you can solely attribute the buyrate to Ryback.

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  71. People paid with the hopes of seeing Maddox....and they got what they wanted!

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  72. It gets him in position so he can get a few steps running start before dropping back as well.

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  73. I for one have never bought a PPV in my life. But I'm probably the second youngest guy on this blog (Hi Sebastian Howard!) and am, while not tech savvy, pretty fucking internet savvy, and a cheap bastard too boot.

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  74. He should get a porn star gimmick, and call himself Maddoxxx.

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  75. Or find two or three guys who look like him: Madroxxx!

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  76. Paint his face red and wear horns and a yoke - Mad Ox!

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  77. Good thing they delivered a horrible main event that turned me off from buying any subsequent shows until the Rumble.

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  78. Geez, they drew more than that for a small show in Trenton before the PPV

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  79. I don't know but how many million watching RAW in the US? 3-4? Compared to this, the 152000 buys is very low. What if they would reduce the price to 20$? I think they could push the buys to at least 1000000...

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  80. what was the last ppv you actually bought?

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  81. Mostly a thief.

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  82. I guess the point is: everyone knows that if they don't watch the stream, they could easily get a copy that looks good on their big tv just very few hours later.

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  83. one million buys?


    I am sure that even if they would charge 15$, the usual "b-ppv" would not crack a million buys.

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  84. Does WWE make significantly more cash off of domestic buys than they do off international ones?

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  85. Not sure how many folks buy the DVD either though. I'm sure some of the DVD sales are too folks who also bought the ppv. most viewers aren't like us and worrying about match quality and star ratings too much. They root for their favorites, boo the villains and want to see it now. five weeks later they've moved on and they don't need to own some ppv because Bryan had a 4 star match.

    Just my take on that.

    As far as pricing, remember this. 100k buys at 50 bucks is 5 million. At 20 bucks you have to sell 2.5 times as many buys to make the same. I'm just not convinced that there are enough folks who are going to buy a ppv at any cost above a movie rental on ppv and for a big ppv like WM and RR, you are already getting people to pay more.



    Might be worth an experiment, but if MITB or HITC only gets 150k buys at 20 bucks, are you able to go back and charge the higher fee? Might not without upsetting your base.

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  86. Caliber_Winfield_69420BoobiesNovember 23, 2012 at 7:16 AM

    If the REAL Maddox were to appear on WWE, I'd buy that PPV like woah.

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  87. oh lots of people do. it's big business. I think my wife and I have purchased two ppv movies in the last 3 years or so off of Dish. sometimes you just feel totally lazy and you are willing to pay extra for not leaving the house. As for netflix or that sort of thing, I simply don't have the time so even 8 bucks a month is generally a waste.

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  88. Caliber_Winfield_69420BoobiesNovember 23, 2012 at 7:18 AM

    You're right.

    I have a friend who's pretty into wrestling, and he doesn't care about match quality, which I find so insanely bizarre. He digs the faces, boos the villains, absolutely loves Randy Orton.

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  89. it's a perfect example. there are still a lot of folks 30 plus (not just 60 plus) that are simply not tech savvy and haven't hooked their internet to the TV. I'm not exactly a technical wonder anymore (which is ironic because in 97 I was cutting edge, selling home theater for a living, first on the block with DVD, high end equipment, etc.). I've just started doing the streaming thing a bit, and it's only done by hooking my laptop directly to the TV with an HDMI cable. I simply don't have the expertise nor the knowhow/desire to worry about making it wireless since watching something through the computer is a rare event. I'm 39 and after years of managing Blockbuster and seeing middle America, I can assure you I'm hardly alone and in some ways slightly more tech savvy than average, despite being light years behind most everyone else on the blog (I've never streamed a ppv and wouldn't know where to even go to find a stream or to download a torrent. I don't own an ipod and have never downloaded music. I use pandora, spotify, and GASP...actually listen to CDs.).

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  90. What makes you think Big Show doesn't draw? He's not on top just for the heck of it. He's a casual fan attraction. Joe On the Street has maybe never heard of CM Punk, but when you had that Meyweather vs Show event, I think a lot of the reason it worked so well was because of Show's name recognition. "Isn't he that giant wrestler guy?"

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  91. indys would kill to have 8000

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  92. 50 bucks for a 2012 shit ppv is insane.

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  93. definitely.


    you have trained the viewer that only wm matters. thats the xmas/birthday prsesnt. thats the time chin and his kids sit down and watch the product.

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  94. 6000 bucks for a diamond necklace is insane. So I'm justified in stealing it.

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  95. only frat boys like maddox now cal. stop dick-riding.

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  96. never said that stealing was an option for me.
    i said "50 bucks for a 2012 shit ppv is insane."

    ill goto a bar and pay 5 bucks... if it piques my interest...


    im not streamin a shitty one.

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  97. WM got off to a very quick sales start this year, so unless the die the rest of the way, I think it'll be close to a legit sellout at the very worst.

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  98. Good points. Yeah I don't think changing the price point when things are bad makes much sense. I doubt there is a swell of folks thinking "gee if WWE PPVs were $29.95, I'd so buy them every month". They'd just lose money, because they'd never make up the difference.

    Do they still do the package deal thing? I remember them promoting that a few years back -- basically if you prepay several months worth of shows you got some kind of bulk discount.

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  99. That'd actually be an interesting metric to create -- what % of TV customers do they convert into PPV customers. In the best of times, I'm guessing about 10% would be the peak. It might be an interesting way to spot BS historical numbers too, when the ratio comes out completely out of whack.

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  100. Caliber_Winfield_69420BoobiesNovember 23, 2012 at 8:47 AM

    How on Earth is liking someone dick-riding? I don't care who likes Maddox, he's a self-made man who's damn funny & original. I'll ride that dick all day, baby.

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  101. Caliber_Winfield_69420BoobiesNovember 23, 2012 at 8:48 AM

    You'd think so, but nope. Just so happens to think that Mr. Orton has it going on.

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  102. I doubt people come out in droves to watch big show wrestle unless its a "special celebrity attraction" like the mayweather fight, the guy is put there mainly for his size, be it comedic or threatening.

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  103. If they keep pushing the amount of days that Punk has been champion (and thats one of the few things they have been doing right recently) it won't matter where punk is on the card, people will *gasp* actually pay attention to his title run and care about whoever comes to knock him off his throne. It's why Taker v Punk is absolutely the right way to go.

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  104. I seriously thought it would have been hilarious if they had the interview segment with Cena as the main event of Hell in a Cell, instead of on the Youtube Preshow.

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  105. Thats nothing I have Schaub. Last week 96 points.

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  106. original? yes
    funny? not since like 2004.


    ive seen your posts on maddox... if you call what you do "liking" id hate to see what you call


    "man-crush that dabbles into the realms of homo-erotica"

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  107. Interesting stuff, seeing as Cena wasn't booked for the show.

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  108. Clearly based on the 2.72 Raw rating people are really excited about his year-long title reign.

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  109. Shit, TNA would kill to have 8,000.

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  110. WMXXV, I think, the one with the first HBK/UT match. Does just chipping in on a PPV at someone else's house count as buying it? In that case, Royal Rumble 2012. I plan on buying RR and WM this year, only reason I didn't buy WM last year was because I was broke.

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  111. I loved that video package that opened Survivor Series.

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  112. I don't know about North America, but 8000 was doable by a few of the Japanese Indys over the years, was TNA doing that when it was the Jarrett's Indy-before Dixie Carter

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  113. i looked up ryback's finisher and it's stolen almost to the letter from saba simba lmfao

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  114. That exactly what it comes down to, you can either watch the free streams, which are not always bad quality, or download it the next day. It's usually on about a dozen or more sites, and the usenet as well. Hell, just Google search any PPV and you can find multiple places to grab it.

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  115. If anything of significance happened on pay per view it'd be a must see live - but if you just want to see solid matches with endings that don't drastically change anything, just wait for the DVD.

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  116. I think booking themselves into a corner is another way of saying that a match has been booked well, since we can't figure out who is going to win. That creates intrique.

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  117. I prefer the term pirate, better benefits and sexier women.

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  118. Streaming is annoying, I really don't recommend it.

    Seriously, wait four fucking hours and you can torrent it (torrenting is something I do recommend, there's some very simple guides out there on teh interwebz).

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  119. I come frome the future and Ryback is shit

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  120. In the futur, everybody hates you and you leave !

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  121. In 2015 impacte is going to Destination America and Bobby Rood is the champ !

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  122. WARNING : Punk will leave WWE and join UFC !!!!

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