Scott,
What is the oldest WWWF (or whatever) footage you can recall seeing on a DVD? Either as a short clip, or a full match?
Well the short clip from their (former) opening montage is the oldest existing footage of wrestling, and I believe Karl Stern mentioned it was shot by Edison and just recently discovered and reconstructed. The clip as you see it is all there is. As far as more "modern" stuff goes, there's tons available on YouTube, most famously the Caddock/Stecher match which was the previous champion of oldest surviving footage. After that, there was tons of cheapie black-and-white compilation tapes of the 50s and 60s you could buy in the Wal-Marts and such while VHS was still a thing. I saw quite a few good Sammy Steamboat and Argentino Rocca matches on those, in fact. I think it was stuff taken from the DuMont shows, but I could be totally wrong on that.
Does any footage from the company's days as Capitol Wrestling Corporation exist?
It was all taped over or lost, as far as I know. Certainly there's almost zero footage of Bruno's first title reign because they didn't really start saving tapes until the 70s, because otherwise you would have seen it all released in some form by now.
Also; in this opening what era/federation is the very first bit of footage (during the "Yes sir, we promised you a great match" voiceover)?
As noted, that would be two nameless guys shot by Thomas Edison in what would have to be the late 1800s.
While we're on links and old-time wrestling, does anyone know if anywhere has links to any of the wrestling match reports Hunter S. Thompson started his career doing? I'm sure I could Google but if anyone knows some offhand it'd be cool. That was before he was doing anything in his signature style so I'm sure it'd read the same as anyone else but I'm still interested.
ReplyDeleteHow about oldest WWE footage in terms of participants? Ric Flair vs. Vince McMahon? Mae Young vs. Moolah, if we're counting that as a match?
ReplyDelete'The History of the World Heavyweight Championship' hasChicago 1961 - 2 out of 3 Falls: Pat O'Connor vs. Buddy Rogers
ReplyDeleteSomeone on Youtube has uploaded some WWWF shows from 1965-66.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om6qF4YM_40
Also: it's pretty easy to find footage of major CWC/WWWF stars wrestling in other territories: Bobo, Rocca, Rogers, Calhoun, Kowalski, etc...
ReplyDeleteCowboy Bill Watts!
ReplyDeleteWhile not a WWE show (though they of course own the footage now), Slamboree 93 has a 6-man legends match where the combined ages of everyone involved has to be about 300, and there's a couple other matches from that show with really old people. As of right now there's a review on the main page of the blog if you scroll to the bottom. The AAA 6-man tag from RR97 has some senior tour guys too.
ReplyDeleteStill amazes me when I heard about old promoters taping over stuff. I guess it was a cost saving measure and a different era but it's sad to think about how much stuff is missing because of it. For instance, is there any footage of the legendary Buzz Sawyer/Tommy Rich "Last Battle of Atlanta" match at all? From what I read it was kind of a last man standing match inside of an enclosed cage.
ReplyDeleteIt's weird seeing Watts use a bulldog and the commentator referring to it as a bulldozer!
ReplyDeleteYeah. It's not limited to wrestling either. Quite famously the BBC would tape over shows, which is why Doctor Who for example, has scarcely any remaining episodes of the 2nd Doctor. DVDs of those stories are clips, audio recordings over photos... A lot of hugely popular British TV pre-1980 is lost.
ReplyDeleteI want footage of Gotch vs Hackenschmidt dammit!
ReplyDeleteYep, loads of Top of the Pops footage as well
ReplyDeleteImagine the gold mine pissed away by taping over early performances by the Beatles and the Stones
Poor Hulkster. He seems to add more and more to his Andre story every time he tells it.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv9OOC006RI
Bobby Davis outshone everyone involved here. He's the forgotten man of managing.
ReplyDeleteThink the WWE would ever release a Best of Wahoo McDaniel DVD? Or maybe a comp DVD on Native American wrestlers.
ReplyDeletehe has to know it's a big joke at this point right? Does any fan over the age of 6 really believe that in the biggest match ever the finish and key spots weren't planned out well in advance? I mean at some point you have to wonder what his audience is. Is it like the Iron Sheik, where people enjoy the insanity? I honestly think at this point it must be the same for the Hulkster. He knows everyone knew that the failed bodyslam at the beginning was an obvious spot. he knows everyone knows that after hulking up he slams big guys before the leg drop.
ReplyDeleteThe Hulkster, working until the end, just, IMO, doing it in a different way now.
well tape was expensive and the replay value of wrestling was considered limited. After you show the footage to further the angle for a couple weeks, why keep it? There was no home video market.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSyStVg-wMI (1939 UK wrestling, at least according to the loader)
ReplyDeleteThe first tittle match ever is on the history of the WWF tittle match DVD
ReplyDeleteAmerican networks were just as bad. For instance, there's no known complete copy of Super Bowl I known to exist, even though the game was shown live by 2 different networks. The closest thing we have to a complete copy is a tape from some guy who filmed his TV while the game was on, and that's missing most of the 3rd quarter.
ReplyDeleteI want to believe.
ReplyDeletehttp://pwchronicle.blogspot.com/2006/01/history-vince-mcmahons-troubled-1998.html?m=1
Good call. Forgot that one
ReplyDeleteIt's very possible that at this point Hulk actually does think that he's being honest. He's embellished this story so many times over so many decades that it wouldn't surprise me at all if the truth has become totally warped in his mind.
ReplyDeleteIt's like the single guy that's lied so much about his sex life that he couldn't tell the truth about it even if he wanted to.
TONS of classic sports broadcasts from that era is missing. The first Super Bowl was only recently discovered in somebody's attic. A full copy of game 7 of the 1960 World Series ("The Best Game Ever") was discovered in an unlabeled cartridge in Bing Crosby's wine cellar. I'm a HUGE NBA fan and I can name dozens of very famous games from the '60s and early '70s that have been partially or completely lost to time. I know these are "just sports", but it still sucks that such a huge part of our cultural heritage was lost.
ReplyDeleteWhat's absolutely unreal to me is when I talk to my dad about how my grandmother would watch wrestling and think it was 100% real, and not even too long ago--as recent as the 84 Hogan/Shiek title switch my dad claims she was going MAD cheering Hulk out of the camel clutch.
ReplyDeleteSad to think I probably got 2-3 years with that kind of perspective before I stumbled onto this thing called the Internet...
Legit LOL.
ReplyDeleteI knew it was fake at age 5 (1989). I'm honestly surprised more didn't. It actually made it MORE appealing to me.
ReplyDeleteThat is beautiful.
ReplyDeleteVince...what the hell happened?
Nearly the same story here.
ReplyDeleteAt age 9, I watched for a few months not clicking on to it not being real, before my mum told me it was fake. Instead of putting me off like she intended, it just made me more fascinated by it.
ReplyDeleteWhich title is that? WWWF or... ?
ReplyDeleteI don't think so.
ReplyDeleteNot WWE but maybe that match in Japan between Lou Thesz and Chono?
ReplyDeleteNot counting any Mae Young or Moolah matches I would think that match sets the record for oldest person wrestling, and probably for biggest age difference between 2 competitors. Thesz was something like 75 and I think Chono was only 27 at the time.
ReplyDeleteMy Dad always tells stories about his grandmother being totally into it back in the 60s/70s - being at shows and being livid at the heels. I wish I could have witnessed that level of passion.
ReplyDeleteHere's a video of Ox Baker causing a actual riot back in the 60s. Kayfabe was AWESOME!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsadSDbSPdg&feature=g-user-u
I find it amusing (sadly) that Andre has become "Jabba the Hutt" in Hogan's eyes. "He farted. and went (Jabba laugh)." Maybe next time when he tells the story, he'll say some of his hair fell out, and he blew one of his knees.
ReplyDeleteIn 2000, ESPN Classic showed a 1/2 hour wrestling show that was totally black and white footage from god-knows-when. I have a couple episodes on a vhs somewhere (god knows where) but I don't remember much. I think Gorgeous George might have been on it.
ReplyDeleteDo they still show old AWA episodes on ESPN classic?
They do. Unfortunately DirectTV decided to move ESPN Classic into the sports package that costs $13 a month and replace it with ESPNU a couple years ago, so I can't watch it anymore. Like I have any interest in watching college tack & field, rowing, golf, or gymnastics. OK, maybe I have a little interest in women's college gymnastics, but even so. Fucking DirecTV...
ReplyDeleteGood one
ReplyDeleteI wonder if they have bangable footage of mae young from back in the day. Im tired of pullin my bobby lou to the bronco buster spot.
ReplyDelete"Bret is my secret agent, however, not a very good
ReplyDeleteone!"
Question: Do you plan on signing randy savage when his contract expires?
WWFLive2: In the year 2032, that might be a little late.
Ouch.
God seems to know a lot of things in this post
ReplyDeleteThat''s crazy. I knew a guy that was in his 70s when I was a kid. Most laid back, quiet man...but I found out that he would drive about 3 hours to watch Mid South Wrestling and go absolutely bat shit during the matches. Hilarious to think about.
ReplyDeleteI'd go with one of the 60 man World War III Battle Royals from WCW and on the WWE side, the 40 man Royal Rumble.
ReplyDeleteit isn't directTV, it's ESPN. Same thing happened with Dish and with Comcast (at least in Michigan).
ReplyDeletePretty sure all we have of Wilts 100 point game is the pic of him holding the piece of paper with 100 written on it and maybe some clips.
ReplyDeletemaybe,. i get exaggerating Andre's weight or Hogan's "injuries" from slamming him, but even believing his own bullshit, anyone with 2 matches in the business knows that the "can't slam him spot" and the hulk up and bodyslam the big guy spot were ALWAYS in the match. To insinuate otherwise is the height of silliness. And to insinuate that Vince would ever book that match without a 100% guarantee from Andre that he was OK jobbing is also silly
ReplyDeleteWait do you mean Indians?
ReplyDeleteThank you! I fucking hate that. And yeah they showed the B&W wrestling for a long time. My dad would get excited when Rocca or the Kangaroos would show up on it.
ReplyDeleteWell, that figures. All that Tebow & LeBron dick riding ain't cheap.
ReplyDeletewow, that footage is awesome
ReplyDeleteI don't think that was ever filmed to begin with.
ReplyDeletewhite. hot. heat.
ReplyDeleteThere's footage of Ric Flair walking out on a $4 bar tab from 1942.
ReplyDeleteI personally find that lots of pre 1977 wrestling is not quite my taste. I like to read about it, and I am very interested in how the business was back then, but as far as sitting down and watches all the matches, it's kind of rough.
ReplyDeleteThat is incredible.
ReplyDeleteCorrect. However, a radio broadcast survives. There's several other photographs from after the game as well.
ReplyDeleteIt's pretty sad, because Thesz is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, but that match is so bad. He was just so old.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's pretty rough.
ReplyDeleteI maintain that Vince's on-screen character was equally, if not more so, responsible for the success of Austin than Austin himself.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, My mistake, misrememberd, it is actually the tittle change from Koloff to Morales, the fourth champion-Don't know why I thought it was the first WWWF tittle match...
ReplyDeleteAh okay. Is it as any good?
ReplyDeleteThat was a good match that stood the test of time.
ReplyDeleteOh I'm not arguing the truth of your viewpoint, just saying that in the clusterfuck of 40 years of mixed work/shoots that is Hogan's life...I can see him losing a grip on reality, lol.
ReplyDeleteHogan might've Hogan'd Hogan. Hogan.