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ROH TV 12-1-12


This week’s ROH TV has the long-awaited return of The Headbangers to TV, and a rematch of the Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin match from Showdown in the Sun.




First, a bit of ROH news, as Jim Cornette is now officially out of the company. Of course, he had already been removed as booker in favor of Delirious, but after a blow-up at these TV tapings ROH has decided to put him on an indefinite sabbatical.  This is very much a good thing, as the guy just hasn’t kept up with the times, and his abrasive attitude in general sure wasn’t doing the promotion any favors.

We open with the introduction of our new commentator, Caleb Seltzer. On one hand he’s not that good (though no worse than a lot of people that call WWE/TNA), on the other he never mentions the words “vintage” or “Twitter” and actually sticks to just calling the matches. I’m just not happy that Nigel McGuiness is out, his commentary was one of my favorite parts of the show.

The Headbangers vs. The Briscoes: The Headbangers have of course been on ROH TV before under really cheap looking masks as the Guardians of Truth, but they quit the House of Truth and unmasked at the last TV taping. Both teams start brawling before we can even do the Code of Honor. We get that sorted out and it’s Mark and Mosh as the legal men, but Thrasher attacks Mark from behind and drops him on the guardrail. The members of each team pretty much look just like their respective partners, so forgive me if I get them mixed up. Thrasher gets tagged in and he tosses Mark outside and they do some more brawling on the floor, Mark gets sent face-first into the ringpost and then gets knocked off the apron by Mosh as he tries to get back in. He tries to get back in again, and Mosh drops him on his face with a front suplex from the apron to the floor as Thrasher distracts the ref. Nice bump there. Mark finally gets back in the ring and a flying clothesline gets 2 for Mosh. He tries the running butt splash but gets caught and Mark drops him. Thrasher gets tagged in and knocks Jay off the apron before Mark can get the hot tag, but runs into a boot on a blind charge and the hot tag is made. Jay pounds away and hits the Death Valley Driver for 2. He tries a backdrop suplex but kind of blows it, Mark hits a second rope elbow anyway and Jay covers but Mosh makes the save, Mark gets backdropped over the top for another nice bump as Jay gets double-teamed in the ring. Mark pulls Thrasher out and Jay gets a small package on Mosh for the 3 at 5:35. **1/2, all brawling and very little wrestling, but action-packed and short enough to where it didn’t wear out its welcome.

Veda Scott is in the back with Nigel McGuiness and Davey Richards. Richards asks for a match at Final Battle with him and Eddie Edwards against Kyle O’Reilly and Bobby Fish. Problem is, Edwards is in Japan touring with NOAH. McGuiness Oks the match, but tells Davey that if Edwards doesn’t show up, well, tough shit.

Adam Page vs. QT Marshall (w/R.D. Evans): Only info I can find on Page is from his own website: He’s 21 (not 20 as the graphic would tell you), from Aaron’s Creek VA, and was trained by Justin Flash, Jason Blade, and Jimmy Valiant. He’s done time in Evolve and various lower-level Mid-Atlantic indies, and apparently he can also be seen eating a mess of greens in the background of an episode of NXT. At any rate, like last week with some unknown guy, I’m betting on a squash here. Evans joins us for commentary as they do a bit of an Irish whip battle that ends with a spinning wheel kick from Page. He tries to go up but Marshall drops him throat-first on the top rope. Marshall (pronounced Mar-SHALL) is somehow bleeding hardway from the bridge of his nose, and to my shock and delight we neither get blurring nor the wide-angle shot of doom. Scoop slam and some elbow drops from Marshall, Page tries to come back but a tilt-a-whirl slam puts him down for 2. He backdrops out of a suplex attempt and hits a powerslam for 2, standing shooting star press (Nice!) gets 2, but a crossbody attempt from the top finds nothing but Marshall’s knee. God’s Gift (that move where you put a guy in the Razor’s Edge position but instead of dropping him on his back he drops him on his stomach, can’t remember what it’s really called off hand) finishes it at 3:25. *1/2, which is about as good as a match that short is going to be. Page looked good, Marshall had his best outing so far, IMO, and I would have liked to see them go another 5 minutes. Prince Nana attacks Evans from behind and for some reason starts tearing Evans’ clothes off before Marshall chases him away.

Marshall and Evans are still in the ring as we come back from commercial, along with McGuiness. Evans cuts an absolutely awful promo, tripping over his lines and just trying to force it way too hard. As bad as Truth Martini is (I don’t think he’s that bad, but everyone else seems to hate him) at least he sounds like he’s done this before, and I’d hate to even hear how bad Marshall is if having Evans talk for him is considered an improvement. McGuiness says he won’t be pushed around by a guy that has the genitals of a 4 year old, announces Evans vs. Nana for Final Battle, and tells him that if he doesn’t like it he and Marshall can leave ROH forever. Good riddance…

Inside ROH: WGGT vs. Titus/Whitmer in an NYC streetfight is announced for Final Battle, and clips from the matches involving those guys from last week are shown. The Bobby Fish/Kyle O’Reilly/Davey Richards segment from last week is also shown.

Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin: Davey does a half-assed job of selling the crossface from last week (or an hour ago, however you want to put it), but at least he makes the attempt. Before we get started Truth Martini joins us to try to convince Elgin to call off the match with Roderick Strong at Final Battle. Elgin refuses, of course. The match between these guys at Showdown in the Sun is widely considered a MOTYC, and was even given ***** by Meltzer (which is kind of surprising considering it didn’t happen in Japan), so they’ve got a lot to live up to here. I haven’t seen it, so I can’t give an opinion either way. Richards gets the anklelock about 15 seconds in but Elgin quickly gets free. Both guys throw forearms, Elgin gets dropkicked and bails, Richards misses the kick from the apron but nails Elgin in the shoulder on the second try. He tosses Elgin into the barricade and nails a kick to the face, Elgin responds with the same. Back in the ring Richards gets the anklelock again, but Elgin rolls out of it and sends Davey to the floor. That just looked silly, as it’s clear that Richards just let go and then dove out of the ring under his own power. Richards gets back on the apron and they fight it out there, then Elgin gets on the second rope and suplexes Richards back in the ring from there, it gets 2. I should note that there’s way too many shots of the crowd during this episode, it’s like an early-90s WCW show. Another forearm battle as the fans go into the dueling chants (with the Elgin contingent winning by quite a bit), Richards tries a handspring elbow but gets caught in the Burning Hammer position. He gets free and tries a crucifix, but Elgin holds on, deadlifts him right up, and DVDs him into the corner for 2. Fans do the (bleeped) “holy shit” chant as we go to commercial, which I think is a bit of an overreaction.

Yet another forearm battle as we come back, Elgin ends up on the floor and Richards follows him out with a dive through the ropes. I personally always thought that move was totally insane but not all that impressive visually, if your foot gets snagged on the ropes you’re probably breaking your neck. I wouldn’t try it if I was a wrestler, is what I’m saying. Richards tosses Elgin back in and hits a missile dropkick, runs into both boots on a blind charge, but no-sells it and hits a German suplex. Elgin no sells that but Richards gets a rolling cross-armbreaker, Elgin just lifts him up and launches him into the corner. That isn’t sold either, they fight it out and a jumping enziguri attempt by Elgin leads to the anklelock AGAIN, Elgin makes the ropes. Elgin works an O’Connor roll right into a German suplex for 2 and both guys are down. They both get up and Elgin tries to superplex Richards but it’s blocked, Richards misses the double stomp but gets a tombstone for 2. Both guys go out to the apron (with the corner in between them) for more forearms, then Richards throws the weakest looking Kawada kicks I’ve ever seen, Elgin responds with some equally terrible knees to the face. They both do them again, and that whole sequence is bad enough to knock * off the rating on its own. Elgin tries another apron-to-ring suplex but takes a jumping enziguri (which seems to be the signature move of ROH, I swear that everyone on the roster does it) and they slug it out on the second rope. Richards throws some headbutts as Kelly exclaims “Great camerawork”, despite the camera clearly showing that Richards is throwing them with no force at all and putting his hand in between to block. Richards finally gets the superplex (with Elgin obviously doing all the work) and tries to roll it into something else, but Elgin blocks it and hits… something, not sure if that was a botch or intentional but it didn’t look too good. It gets 2 at any rate, and Elgin goes for the corkscrew senton but misses. Richards hits a high knee and puts Elgin on top of another superplex attempt, but Elgin blocks it and hits a sort of spinning fireman’s carry slam from the top for 2. Corkscrew lands for 2 and Elgin locks in the crossface, but Richards rolls him over for a 2 count. Elgin has had enough of this match (as have I) and just smokes him with a high knee, lands a couple shots to the back of the head and the turnbuckle powerbomb, and the spinning sitout powerbomb finish this one at 14:59. Crowd chants “This is awesome!” I have to vehemently disagree, this was no great match by any means. **, and I only go that high because of all the nice power spots from Elgin, Richards sucked for the most part. This was rather sloppy, quite repetitive (WAY too many forearms and ankle locks), the selling (or lack thereof) killed it, and some parts were downright business exposing, though the usual shit production work from ROH is as much to blame for that as the wrestlers. It’s pretty clear that they were trying way too hard to re-create the magic of the earlier match and this one suffered because of it, though if that match was anything like this one (I’m guessing it wasn’t, these guys usually kick it into a higher gear for PPVs, plus they get a lot more time) than the people calling it a MOTYC are nuts. Take out that weak-ass sequence from the corner, back off on all the forearms and meaningless anklelock attempts, and actually sell things properly (Davey, I’m mostly looking at you on this one) and it’s maybe ***+, but as it stands this was really disappointing.

Not exactly must-see TV here. Next week: Bobby Fish & Kyle O’Reilly vs. The Bravados, Jay Lethal squashes some guy I’ve never heard of, and Kevin Steen defends the ROH world title against Mike Bennett. 

Comments

  1. I was underwhelmed by the main, too. I enjoyed their first match, but wouldn't call it MOTY. This one just didn't have any flow or story to it. And, even though I know its been said before, the Headbangers? Really? Gonna have Fire & Ice show up next?

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  2. How bout Scott Steiner as the GM? Now I'd tune in for that.

    Elgin/Richards I is overrated, I agree. If you want a 2012 state of the art wrestling MOTYC check out KENTA/Marafuji(never gets old) from July. It's on youtube. It's my MOTY after Brock/Cena

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  3. God's Gift (the move, not the guy) = A running Dominator (Ron Simmons' WWE finisher)


    This was a good show. The 'bangers didn't look as slow and broken down as I thought they would, Marshall was all right, despite all the "he makes TaDarius Thomas look competent" stuff I've heard on this blog, the lone show lowlight was Richards' promo with Nigel (and not Evans'. He's a lawyer, they're supposed to sound whiny)


    Not looking forward to Steen/Bennett, though. Hope Cornette's departure means he and "No Talent" Mike Mondo get their futures endeavored as well.

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  4. Dominator, that's it, I knew it was a late-90s WWF guy that used it. Marshall was fine, and anyone who thinks he sucks worse than Thomas needs to have their had examined. He at least can pull off basic moves and his kicks make contact.


    Believe it or not, Bennett reportedly met with the WWE recently, though I have no idea why, there's absolutely nothing about him that would make me want to pick him up. Guy is just average at best in every way. Maybe they want to sign Maria again, and she won't come back unless they sign her fiance too.

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  5. I like the Headbangers so I don't mind, but I certainly see your point. When I said they should sign ex-WWE guys I was talking about people like John Morrison and Chris Masters (yes, I know he sucks, but they could use a big guy like him), not people who were recently working at Home Depot and have been off TV so long that they still call the WWE the WWF.

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  6. As hilarious as it would be they'd be insane to put Steiner on a PG rated show that's on broadcast TV. Wouldn't be a bad idea to put him in a couple PPV matches though (Steiner/Elgin could be pretty sweet if Steiner is motivated), he'd be by far and away their biggest star.

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  7. Masters actually doesn't suck anymore. He's improved a whole lot and was rewarded with a release.

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  8. DO NOT GIVE THEM IDEAS! (Granted, both Norton and Ice Train are retired, but still.)

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  9. I'm still way behind on my ROH. I'm watching the Steen: Descent Into Madness comp right now. It's the Steen/Generico fued plus some stuff to fill it out. Then I'll try catching up before Final Battle.

    McGuiness is great at everything, it seems. He was by far the best on commentary. I still wish he could wrestle.

    I haven't seen the Richards/Elgin MOTYC match yet, but for me, nothing's beating Omega/Ibushi from this summer. Absolutely insane spotfest that's just balls to the wall.

    QT Marshall had a good match? Wow....

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  10. Really? They should pick him up then, just for the fact that he looks nothing like anyone else on the roster.

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  11. Just picked up this set as well with the recent black friday sales at roh. Looks good.

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  12. It's really awesome. The story comes out really well and is a perfect build for their Final Battle match. I wish there were more DVD sets collecting feuds from all the companies.

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  13. "Good" might be a strong, after all it was just a squash, but anything in the neighborhood of "not shitty" shows a marked improvement. By my ratings Marshall is getting better with every match that goes by, though after his debut with Thomas he had no where to go but up.

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  14. ROH does an exceptional job imo of putting out compilation sets. The Davey Richards one has the same narrative. They don't duplicate either. El Generico's set had nothing of the Steen feud, which disappointed me at first until I realized they must be releasing that entire feud in a future release.

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  15. I respect for Bennett for one reason. He actually tries to be a heel, no funny shit, no badassness, just an asshole.

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  16. I don't see how he's the heel in the feud with Mondo, Mondo was basically trying to TV-PG rape Maria, Bennett was defending his on screen girlfriend/real life lover, and Bennett has consistently kicked Mondo's ass. That makes him the face in my book, though with the face/heel structure in ROH you can interpret it however you like. That's probably intentional, but there's been too many heel/heel matches on ROH PPV and if you consider Bennett a heel than there's another one. But yeah, he's not bad at all, though I think that if I was scouting ROH for talent Bennett would be among the last guys I'd look at, I'd be on Adam Cole's dick like Thugnificent on Obama's, be making a serious attempt at signing Caprice and Coleman (they are 2 guys who would really benefit from WWE developmental), and would be begging Elgin to shave his head (he's got a bald spot that HBK would make fun of) and come feud with Ryback. Bennett IS good at what he does, but I feel he's more suited for TNA than WWE.

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  17. I'm talking in general, the Mondo feud was an anomaly, he's normally a pretty clear-cut heel. And maybe in the misogynistic world of indy wrestling, attempting to rape Maria is a face thing to do? Bennett just seems to stick out in RoH, and while I do think they need to diversify, he really, really doesn't fit in.

    Bennett has a good look and can do standard wrestling stuff decently. I do agree that he pretty much has nothing to offer WWE though, they buy and sell guys like him on a daily basis. They fired Chris Masters, and he's a better worker than Bennett, plus he's bigger.

    TNA could make some use of a guy with a good look (most everyone in TNA is either fairly small or run-down looking, it's like the world's museum for hideous tattoos) plus if you get him you get Maria. Though I guess you already have their dynamic with Tara/Jesse. Bennett/Maria are younger though.

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  18. The main was awesome.. what are people drinking?

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  19. I think what people are saying is "their first match was better". And it was, but this one was pretty damn good as well.

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  20. QT is garbage, and Marchie Archie (RD Evans) is being wasted in ROH. I liked the idea of him being a talker for a monster like Chiampa but with QT Marshall its like he is Bobby Heenan when he was managing the Red Rooster.

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  21. Bennett just seems like he's one of those guys that practices "less is more" and would probably get signed and have smoke blown up his ass because of it, and that just makes him dog dick boring in ROH. It wouldn't kill him to jazz up his moveset a little. But he definitely has charisma, and the addition of Maria helped him a lot. Their "jock douchebag and his bitch girlfriend" dynamic was exactly what he needed to make him stand out.


    Elgin will never make it to WWE, he's too bland on the mic and despite the fact that he's strong, he's not really all that big, and unfortunately his style and build dictate that he should try to seem like a hoss, and he'd just end up being another Tazz that ends up super exposed once he gets onto the bigger stage.


    C&C are too old and too shitty on the mic, respectively.


    Cole is money though, besides the typical "too small" argument.

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  22. Yeah, you're probably right about Elgin. I can see him as this generation's Scott Norton, one of those guys that becomes a huge star in Japan but is basically ignored here in the U.S. I think WWE could use C+C though, especially if they're serious about a strong tag division. If anything they'd be great to toss in opening matches to get the crowd jacked.


    Cole is the man, but for my own amusement I hope he stays in ROH for a while. Maybe WWE can sign him to some kind of contract where he can stay there, kind of like how NHL teams draft people but keep them in juniors for a while. Basically pay him to not go to TNA is what I'm saying.

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  23. RD Evans is quite Mysterious & Handsome.. #ImmortalizeSapphire

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  24. Dude gave it 2 Stars.. It was 4..

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  25. Punk mentioned it in the contract promo 2 weeks after the worked shoot

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  26. I don't get your issue with RD Evans/Archibald Peck, the guy always brings the comedic goods in the ring and plays a smarmy stammering layer to perfection

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  27. I'm not a Punk fan (think he a good worker but a total dick) so please elaborate...

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  28. My issue with Evans is that I think he's a bad actor. It's like he's out there trying to look mad, instead of actually out there looking mad. Another way to explain it: when I see Truth Martini I think he sucks, but he projects the image of a guy who's actually done promos. He seems at ease and comfortable in what he's doing (even if he stinks), while Evans sounds like he's never been on camera before. I know I'm in the minority here, but when I see Martini I think "he's a heel, boo!", when I see Evans I think "get me someone who doesn't have the deer-in-the-headlights look".

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  29. interviews post firing show that Shockingly Masters is a smark, an online fan if there ever was one, and it bothered him that the kinds of fans who like the same things he does (Crusiers workrate etc.) were (rightfully) shitting all over his work-he only got so big because he thought it would get him a job, and he was right. He trimmed the muscle mass and worked his ass off and got pretty good on superstars--this motivation led to him and Punk developing a friendship. Master's hard work was rewarded with his firing, and he was one of the names punk dropped while ranting at Ace/Vince about Laurengitus doing Vince's dirty work for him and firing guys with passion to keep their pet projects around

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  30. Ah, OK. Thanks for the info.

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  31. What have you been drinking, 4 stars my ass! I thought it was 2 1/2 or 3...4 has it at half a star less then the MASTERFUL tittle match between Elgin and Steen

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  32. 1/2 star?.. The 1st one was 5, and maybe a 1/4 star more.. It will be every ACTUAL JOURNALIST'S Match of the Year. Including Scott, Meltzer, Alvarez, etc.

    The only people who won't give it it's due are Message Board cats, and that's why they're only message board cats, and not actual voices in the community that hold any credence..

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  33. EVERY actual journalist-fat fucking chance-I'd bet cash money Scott does not pick it-and different people have different tastes-Meltzer will pick a Japanese match, bet on it

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  34. I will gladly refer back to this conversation in a month's time.

    I'm pretty sure Scott has only given 2 matches the full monty this year and there is no way HHH/Taker was better.

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  35. If I'm wrong about Scott I'll gladly eat that...but if you really think every journalist will unanimously agree on one match then you are mental

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  36. mid-card journalists don't count..

    ~smiley face w/ LOL cat in the background~

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  37. A: I haven't seen the first Richards/Elgin match, it could be ***** (how could it be 1/4 more?), it could be a DUD for all I know. Why people seem to think that match somehow affects how I feel about this one when I clearly said multiple times that I haven't seen it makes no sense at all.


    B: THIS match was NOT ****, or even close. No flow, no selling, no psychology (you're supposed to work the leg before you do a leg based submission move, Davey), botches, more than one business-exposing spot... looking back on it, I'm starting to feel that ** was generous. This was nothing more than a collection of spots, and a lot of them were shitty. If someone were to ask me why people think Richards sucks, this would be the perfect match to explain it.

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  38. You will hate the first one, and the IWC Mt. Rushmore will still vote it MOTY and you will remain perplexed..

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  39. Pretty sure HHH/UT HITC is winning going away. Know I hated that one

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