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Move evolution

Hi Scott. I've got a question for you (and the blog) about holds, and how they evolve.

I've always thought of the Million Dollar Dream/Cobra Clutch as a sleeper hold--i.e., a move that causes opponents to pass out, rather than tap out. But I'm pretty sure I've seen Sgt. Slaughter force submissions from it in the early 80s. And Rodney Mack's Blackout (basically the same move) caused opponents to tap out too.

Are there any other examples you can think of where the same move, over time, has been understood to have two different effects? (One might be the Kokina Clutch, which looks a lot like a sleeper hold with a bodyscissors.)

They don't really "do" sleeper finishes anymore, I've noticed.  You get pinfalls and tapouts, but the old three arm drops just don't happen.  In real life, the cobra clutch is absolutely a move that puts you out, as I've had it happen to me before.  Maybe the justification is that you tap out to avoid passing out?  Can't really think of anything else where the effects of the move change, although sometimes it "changes" because guys alter the application of the hold or get lazy with it over time or whatever.  


  1. I initially read the topic title as "More Evolution" and as my PTSD kicked in from all the 20 minute HHH promos and boring title reigns, I started to scream NOOOOOOO!

  2. Sgt. Slaughter explains the Cobra Clutch:

  3. And then all the vials on the shelf shattered, and the room began shaking, and all the people in the theaters were like "What the fuck is this shit!?"

  4. It's just like in the UFC when guys get caught in a chokehold and tap as they feel themselves going out.


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