I was watching Spring Stampede 1999 the other night (skipping the tag match of course. I'm not a monster), and the main event leaves me with questions. What was the deal with the Hogan injury? I've never heard the explanation for that. I'm assuming it was a legit injury that he had coming in to the match? Is that accurate? Or did it happen during the match? If it did happen during the match, what was the original booking? Those couple of months were really strange in Hulk's booking as he had just returned from his 'presidential run' to form the new and improved wolfpac with the 'finger poke of doom', then Flair turned mega-heel making Hogan sort of an afterthought. He was showing signs of a face turn, which was odd seeing as the rest of the wolfpac was still mega-heel, got hurt, then came back and took the belt from Savage, who I think was a face at the time, with help from Nash before Nash turned on him and Hogan went back to the red and yellow. I think I have all this straight. Anyway, what was the deal with Spring Stampede?
The Hogan injury was a work best that I can tell. That whole Nash booking era was some spectacularly awful stuff in terms of meaningless swerves and rapid-fire title changes for no reason. And yeah, to this day I don't know why they switched the belt around from Nash to Savage to Hogan again like that, especially since Nash was turning on Hogan to set up their "retirement" match at Road Wild. You'd think having Hogan win the belt THERE would make more sense than having him defend it.
Actually, Nash wanted to just put the title on Savage but was unaware of a clause in Hogan's contract stating that whenever Savage won the title, he had to job it to him the next night.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the period between February 1999 and the rest of the year was when WCW really ran off the rails. The big thing I'll never understand was the purpose for the Hogan vs Flair feud to begin with. They'd done that feud to death by 1999 in every possible permutation and you had all these hot Hogan feuds on the horizon (they could have done big business with Hogan vs Nash, Hart, or Goldberg) and basically chucked all of them right into the trash by trying to turn him into a pseudo-face. Plus why would you make Flair a heel? He was one of the top three or four babyfaces in the company at that point in terms of heat and his feud with Bischoff had just got off the ground really.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading from the dirtsheets way back then that Hogan didn't wanna involve himself in the screwy finish, which was why he faked a leg injury mid-match. I'm sure there was more to it than that though, business was down and I assume Hogan just wanted to take time off so when he returned again, business would pick up again, at least in his mind anyway.
ReplyDeleteHogan also faked a knee injury during wm 6 which dident factor in the match at all. You can hear him tell the ref his knee is done. But stops selling when he gets back in the ring like nothing happened.
ReplyDeleteYou make some great points. Mainly why they would base a monster heel stable around Hogan as its leader to turn him face 2 months later in an angle that doesn't even involve the rest of the group? I am not a fan of the finger poke at all, but there was definitely a clear path for WCW to follow in its aftermath (Goldberg going through the Wolfpac one by one till he wins the strap from Hogan again) and I cannot understand why they didn't just stay the course.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure that was booked that way strictly for the drama and as a tease to the fans who were sure the match would end in a count out or a draw.
ReplyDeleteThey didn't play up that aspect after the match was over to explain the loss -- instead they played up Earthquake hitting him with some elbows a week or two before the WM match, with EQ actually saying that he "cost Hulk Hogan the WWF title in WrestleMania VI" in his podium interview shortly after the injury angle played out.
Yeah, I agree with you. I think the Fingerpoke was as fine of an idea as any to get a group over as major heels.
ReplyDeleteIt offended smart fans at the time due to the bad taste of the "butts in the seats" comment more than anything, but it actuality, it slightly outdrew Mick Foley's title win in the ratings (and was the only segment on the show to do so). Ticket advances were strong from February through April, ratings were the strongest that they ever were in January and part of February, and the next two buyrates were very healthy.
The fact that they had had no follow-up that was remotely comprehensible hurt them more than anything.
Am I the only that thinks 1999 was a shit year for wrestling? In WCW, all of the vets lost whatever appeal they still had and in WWE, the attitude stuff was finally getting a little ridiculous. Outside of Austin/Rock, nothing memorable happened that year for either company.
ReplyDeleteNot so sure anyone thought they would blow the whole angle with a count out/dq. Even at my young age at the time knew someone was gonna get pinned. I just always thought it was hogan just protecting himself so he could say he had a bum knee when warrior won and get a rematch. Did quake drop the elbows on his knees or somethin? A nomal elbow drop wouldent effect his knees at all.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. The biggest year ever for wrestling viewership on television and there is so little good to go around. I stopped watching almost entirely by the fall that year and didn't really pick it back up till the next summer.
ReplyDeleteKevin Nash will probably blame this period of instable nonsensical booking on Bill Goldberg's injury...even though that didn't occur until December 99. Hey the facts haven't stopped Nash before anytime people call him out on this period.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Between Russo's crazy booking in WWF and Nash's booking in WCW, there was so much nonsense going on. Every title changed a million times in both promotions and WCW in particular just didn't seem to know how to book any of their top guys. WCW started the year with the Fingerpoke and nWo revival, moved to a nonsensical Flair turn, the descent of Goldberg, return of Hulkamania (kinda), hotshot title wins, and the nail in the coffin: Russo arriving in WCW by fall. The WWF had just as many ridiculous title changes, mishandled Big Show from day one, gave us the Corporate-Ministry-Higher Power crap, no interesting new challengers for Austin, and a HHH push that dragged early on (and didn't pick up steam til the Steph turn and the Foley matches in 2000). Bad year all around.
ReplyDeleteIt is a year like 1999 that makes me say the whole "Attitude" thing benefits from revisionist history and the stagnation of the current product. There was a LOT of crap to go with the handful of good matches and a couple hot stars.
ReplyDelete1999 might be the biggest gap between the business aspect of wrestling vs the creative aspect.
ReplyDeleteSpring Stampede had some good undercard matches. In particular, the Horsemen-Flock tag match, Juvy-Blitzkrieg, and a decent hardcore match with BamBam vs. Sandman
ReplyDeleteWWE 1997 was the greatest television wrestling has ever produced and I consider that a part of the attitude era so I can't agree. And 1998 was pretty good too, although I always think of it as a cartoon version of 1997.
ReplyDeleteIt's the best PPV of 1999 IMO, just a really, really good wrestling show. Blitzkrieg leaving the business was a real shame.
ReplyDeleteA lot of people had a hard time believing there would be a clean finish at the time. The marks because of how even the guys were booked and the smarks given how little either guy jobbed.
ReplyDeleteI suppose its possible -- but they never played it up. They did play up the quake thing though, so I think it was always the plan to help him save a little face by saying Quake injured him going into WrestleMania and also to further the feud for the house shows and the PPV.
Oh yeah, easily.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree. That was my favorite show of the year too, just for the undercard. Benoit & Malenko should have gone on to a dominant run as tag champs, especially since they had no idea what to do with them as singles during the summer.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree on 1997, I just mean the "Attitude Era" as a whole gets this reputation as a period of constant greatness among some fans and that is clearly not the case.
ReplyDeleteYeah, if they had progressed logically with the big screwjob and Goldberg murdering the nWo members on his way through the ranks, the Fingerpoke would be remembered as little more than a sort of wacky swerve to start off a hotter feud.
ReplyDeleteIt helps if you think that the Attitude Era was just 1997 to March 1998, like I do.
ReplyDeleteReally strange that Nash would want the belt on Randy at that point, as he was easily behind Goldberg, Sting, DDP, Nash on the face side of WCW's main event scene at that point, but not much made sense back then so I can totally see Nash putting the belt on an aging Savage.
ReplyDeleteYeah, good call.
ReplyDeleteI just dont see why they would have a knee injury if they already had a angle with his ribs in the works. Why not sell a rib injury in the mania match? Makes no sense to do that. Quakes promo after could have been him saying those elbows from a couple weeks back weakened him enough for warrior to win. Did quake say anything about the knee injury?
ReplyDeleteNo -- it was entirely non-specific. He didn't refer to the rib injury at all -- he just said "After I cost Hulk Hogan the WWF title in WrestleMania VI...."
ReplyDelete"WWE 1997 the greatest television wrestling has ever produced?" I know people around her greatly overrate the Hart Foundation vs. Austin stuff, but I don't know where to begin with that one. I suggest rewatching those Raws on Classics on Demand. Much like 1999, the main event angles are great, but there's a lot of forgettable shit in the undercard.
ReplyDeleteI do watch Classics every week. In fact, I'm watching the August 4th edition right now. And it wasn't just the Harts vs Austin that made it great. It was Goldust and Mankind getting big time face pushes, it was the Rock and the Nation, the last time vets like LOD and Vader were relevant, rise of DX and the Outlaws, Ken Shamrock, Sable and Sunny, Undertaker finally becoming more than just a freak show attraction.
ReplyDeleteFrom a storytelling standpoint, nothing even comes close to touching 1997 Raw. And the matches were damn good too. Austin/HBK vs Owen/Davey, Owen/Davey for the Euro title, Cactus/HHH, Taka/Sasuke and a ton others.
Yeah, I have to agree -- the latter half of 1997 is great, but a lot of the early months are pretty hit or miss.
ReplyDeleteSid Power Bombing Jose Lathario's kid through a table was pretty mind blowing stuff for WWE back then. There is a lot of cool stuff in early 97, it's just HBK losing his smile overshadowed all of it.
ReplyDelete(skipping the tag match of course. I'm not a monster)
ReplyDeleteUh-huh. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
I thought the Hogan injury (to his knee) was legit. Didn't they show surgery footage in the weeks after it?
ReplyDeleteAnd Savage was a heel when he lost the belt to Hogan. It was hard to tell b/c when he came back he screwed over Flair to help DDP win the title (he elbow dropped Flair), but DDP either was already heel or about to get there, and Flair was a heel but Savage turned on him, and Sid came in as a heel while Nash was a face who had a been a heel up until Hogan took off again after the PPV and OYVIN-GLAVIN FLAVIN~~!~(*# @@
Forget get it, Lerxst, it's WCW'99town.
ReplyDelete"It offended smart fans at the time due to the bad taste of the "butts in the seats" comment more than anything."
ReplyDeleteI wasn't really a "smart" fan at the time (so far from it that I thought that Wolfpac was awesome), so my main beef with it was I didn't understand why Nash would lay down for Hogan. Did he ever have a justification for that? Was that when Nash's rationales for heel turns being "I like money!" started?
While I am familiar with hyperbole, I'd still dispute nothing memorable happening at all match wise. That Hardys/Edge and Christian ladder match wound up being a pretty big deal, even if it's diluted by all of the matches that followed it. It's pretty much the template for that gimmick now.
ReplyDelete"There was a LOT of crap to go with the handful of good matches and a couple hot stars."
ReplyDeleteYou can say that about any well remembered era in wrestling, though, because there is almost always a lot of crap/filler in any given promotion. But yeah, I do think a lot of people who grew up with the Attitude Era have rose colored glasses for it, because it was the last time wrestling was that popular (probably ever) and it was all very exciting at the time.
How would they know when business was picking up if Jim Ross wasn't around?
ReplyDeleteI can't remember, good question. I don't recall if they ever addressed that or not. It seemed like it went on the back burner almost immediately.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, stuff like Rockabilly, the leftover Luchas WCW didn't want and the endless push of Brian Christopher was awful
ReplyDeleteThey released an nWo VHS tape shortly after this where Nash says they were mimicking corporate mergers where two mega corporations join together and give all of the power, aka the Big Gold Belt, to one veteran CEO, aka Hogan. I think this is on YouTube
ReplyDeleteI can't hate on Rockabilly because it led to the Outlaws.
ReplyDeleteI kind of remember that now, that was also one of those cheapo $9.99 WCW PPVs.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of Hardys/E&C matches, I think of TLC, not of the initial ladder match between the two. Which sucks, because that match rocks.
ReplyDeleteBut when I think of regular ladder matches, I never forget Razor/Shawn. I think it's because of the point I was making. The tag match happened on a C ppv and was kind of a throwaway match during a year where everything blurs together.
I think this is a fair comment -- all great eras had their "Bushwhackers" moments so to speak.
ReplyDeleteYeah they had a sick run. I remember them having a damn near ***** cage match on Nitro or Thunder with incredible heat in that period -- I can't recall who it was against though?
ReplyDeleteTotal Creative control...
ReplyDeleteThe emailer gave me douche chills
ReplyDeleteI do the same thing. Which is a real shame because I love raven.
ReplyDeleteKidman/mysterio? They were the champs at the time.
ReplyDeletethey had one on Thunder agains the NWO B Team which I think got them the title match (or it was part of a tourney of some sort) that ended with Benoit doing the diving headbutt off the top of the cage. Dont recall other cage matches by them at that time.
ReplyDeleteThat's all well and good - I have no problem with anybody not wanting to watch Benoit matches - but we're long past the point of it being upstanding or even "cute" to make a grand social commentary whenever Benoit might be remotely related to the topic at hand.
ReplyDeleteWhoever e-mailed Scott apparently still felt the need to draw attention to his moral superiority.
I mean seriously, who the hell here even entertained the thought "Wow, I wonder where this guy falls along the 'watching Benoit matches' debate" until he felt the need to bring it up? It has nothing to do with the ultimate point of his e-mail.
Normally I wouldn't care about Benoit discussion as long as it's relevant, or like I said, whether someone holds a viewpoint different from my own, but in this case the e-mailer was begging to be called out.
You may need some perspective.
ReplyDeleteI can still enjoy Benoit matches. Just as I can enjoy Bing Crosby's singing or Austin wrestling despite their domestic violence problems. Professional athlete beloved by his peers goes crazy due to his lifestyle with tragic consequences. It's heart breaking. But hey, Roman Polanski rightfully won an Oscar for The Pianist and many consider him a pedophile. See also 2001 and other work by Arrhur C Clarke. Separating art and reality is just necessary to live. Or I couldn't enjoy a can of Coke, admire a friend's new diamond ring or type this from an iPhone. We've all got blood on our hands in a way. Benoit had a lot. His brain scans show he had a hell of an excuse for why. Better than why I'm okay with hideous conditions leading to repeated suicide attempts by iPhone factory workers - because I just don't think about it.
ReplyDeleteThat's well put
ReplyDeleteTotally agree. Just a smarmy, douchey line that served no purpose other than for some ass to take a fake moral stance
ReplyDeleteUnfair to wire season 2 but otherwise I agree
ReplyDeleteYou're too kind. Brevity ain't my friend. It just confuses me that all signs suggest by the end of his life, he was a different man, struggling to keep of together while his brain fell apart. His friends all said he would have been the last guy they'd have thought capable. The demonisation baffles me.
ReplyDeleteA-fucking-Men
ReplyDeleteMy apologies if my own lengthy post slightly above appeared to be any grand comment. As odd as it might sound, reading through comments early this morning, I only 'decided' on my own stance on Benoit there and then. And I'm a long winded kinda guy ;)
ReplyDeleteTotally agree that the original mail in the line was either trolling or just being way too cute.