The recent thread about the least valuable players got me thinking:
Here in The 10States an always popular sports-related discussion is
who was the biggest bust among high draft choices in the NFL and NBA.
Who do you and the rest of the BofDers think was the biggest bust in
wrestling? I'll throw a few names out there just to get us all
started...
Tiger Ali Singh: The guy who inspired me to write this email, and my
pick for the Ryan Leaf (I know you don't know who Ryan Leaf is, Scott,
but you and the rest of the non-American BODers, can look him up on
Wikipedia) of wrestling. Tons of hype, airtime, and money invested,
and he amounted to absolutely NOTHING, thanks to a total lack of
ability.
Teddy Hart: Talented, could make money just off being related to a
bunch of good workers, is now pretty much blackballed from wresting in
the US because he's a giant douche.
Mark Henry: Would have easily been #1 here if not for him getting
pretty decent over the last couple years. Even so, has not even come
close to making up the money that was invested in him, though he's
still got time.
Scott Hall: Not in the same league as the guys above, but still would
be considered a bust. Should have been a multiple-time world champ,
instead drug issues make him famous for either being second fiddle to
Kevin Nash or as a euphemism for being totally bombed. Seriously, even
most non-wrestling fans know what "He's drunker than Scott Hall"
means.
Bam Bam Bigelow:Should have been great but somehow wasn't. I still
have no idea why... Yeah, he sucked on the mic, but that's why we have
managers.
I'm sure you and the rest of the blog can come up with much better examples.
who was the biggest bust among high draft choices in the NFL and NBA.
Who do you and the rest of the BofDers think was the biggest bust in
wrestling? I'll throw a few names out there just to get us all
started...
Tiger Ali Singh: The guy who inspired me to write this email, and my
pick for the Ryan Leaf (I know you don't know who Ryan Leaf is, Scott,
but you and the rest of the non-American BODers, can look him up on
Wikipedia) of wrestling. Tons of hype, airtime, and money invested,
and he amounted to absolutely NOTHING, thanks to a total lack of
ability.
Teddy Hart: Talented, could make money just off being related to a
bunch of good workers, is now pretty much blackballed from wresting in
the US because he's a giant douche.
Mark Henry: Would have easily been #1 here if not for him getting
pretty decent over the last couple years. Even so, has not even come
close to making up the money that was invested in him, though he's
still got time.
Scott Hall: Not in the same league as the guys above, but still would
be considered a bust. Should have been a multiple-time world champ,
instead drug issues make him famous for either being second fiddle to
Kevin Nash or as a euphemism for being totally bombed. Seriously, even
most non-wrestling fans know what "He's drunker than Scott Hall"
means.
Bam Bam Bigelow:Should have been great but somehow wasn't. I still
have no idea why... Yeah, he sucked on the mic, but that's why we have
managers.
I'm sure you and the rest of the blog can come up with much better examples.
Sup with the formatting, bro? 80 columns per line not good enough for you now?
I'm gonna throw Sean O'Haire in there as a guy that should have gotten protection and a giant push when he jumped to WWE, especially considering the awesome character he was given, and instead they gave up on him incredibly fast even by their standards. Also, Carlito was treated as a HUGE deal for the first few years of his run, winning the US title and IC title in his Smackdown and RAW debuts respectively, and of course fizzled out for reasons we all know by now. I kind of think they wanted to groom him to be the guy ADR is now.
I don't consider Scott Hall a bust. Yeah he could've been a World Champ but the dude had an amazing career, wrestled in possibly the best match of the 90s at WrestleMania X and kicked off possibly the biggest angle in pro wrestling history.
ReplyDeleteSo....he's a little different than Teddy Hart, no?
Got to throw Bobby Lashley out there
ReplyDeletePushed to the moon without any real fan support for the squeaky-voiced steroid mountain. Then fizzled out and mysteriously disappeared when the Wellness policy came in.
His lack of any impact in TNA proved that he was never remotely worth the hype in the first place
Lots of WWE "free agent" busts: Steve Williams, Barry Windham, Ultimo Dragon, Dick Slater, Terry Gordy, Public Enemy, Perry Saturn... I could go on.
ReplyDeletePeople often forget that Lashley was seriously over as a Smackdown midcarder. Like, shockingly so.
ReplyDeleteIt's when they decided to make him the focus of ECW over the likes of RVD and the increasingly-popular CM Punk that fans started to sit on their hands for the guy.
I feel like it was one of those issues where fans just weren't ready to accept him at that level just yet (this was when the ECW title was still being promoted as a legit world title, even an option for the Rumble winner at Mania), even for the C-brand. They liked him where he was, and were enjoying watching him develop and taking that ride to stardom with him. I liken it to if they'd pulled the trigger on Steven Austin around the summer of 1997 (or any time after WM13, but before RR 98) instead of waiting until WM14 to really inaugurate him as the next big thing. Sure, he'd still have been huge, but I really do feel that fans like a story. A progression. It's what made the rises of Cena and Batista (culminating in triumphant WM crowning moments) all the more rewarding. In essence, WWE was taking that satisfaction away from fans.
Now, Lashley was never going to be Steve Austin, and you don't necessarily need an Austin or Cena-like progression from midcard to main event (hell, guys like Undertaker and Brock Lesnar practically jumped to the front of the line the minute they debuted), but it continually confounds me that Steve Austin's rise is something they don't ape more often. It was perfect. He gets hot in the midcard, has a hot feud or two, most likely for the secondary titles, hovering around the main event but staying just out of reach, until he's so hot that fans believe he's above midcard level and are clamoring to see him in the main event. They sort of had that story with Lashley. He had feuds in the midcard over the US title, and against King Booker, and only got more popular with each week he was out there, hovering around the main event (including a fatal four-way title match at the No Mercy PPV roughly a month before they gave him the ECW title), but not necessarily being given that main event push. Fans could get the sense that this was a guy they needed to keep their eye on, but that he wasn't there just yet. But then WWE pulled the trigger too soon and fucked up the story.
Of course, now I would be over-the-moon if WWE went back to having a guy win all the time and then giving him the world title, instead of what they do now, where a guy gets beat like he owes Vince money, and then they put a hunk of gold around his waist and wonder why he isn't moving the needle.
Biggest bust? Sable, Trisha, Jaqueline, and Aksana gotta be in the running...oh wait, not that kind of bust...
ReplyDeleteEither RVD with the title and a joint, or Duggan and Sheik with the blow. Oh wait, wrong kind of bust...
ReplyDeleteI see where the guy was going with Scott Hall and agree to an extent. Not a bust like Ryan Leaf or Tony Manderich, but sort of the equivalent of Drew Bledsoe (who was supposed to be the next Troy Aikman but ended up second fiddle to Favre, who wasn't supposed to be any good.)
ReplyDeleteMy list of busts:
Lex Luger, particularly in the WWF. (Injuries contributed, but I don't think he was ever good at creating a character.)
Dino Bravo: not sure what the WWF thought they had in this guy, but they flushed tons of money down the toilet on him.
Tugboat/Typhoon/Shockmaster: I think the guy had some tools but he always seemed to be the wrong character at the wrong time.
The Ultimate Warrior in WCW
The Super Ninja from Saturday Night's Main Event in 1988. Jesse Ventura was hyping him up as the next big thing, and I was looking forward to someone coming out and squashing the Ultimate Warrior for the IC title. Turns out he wasn't the next big thing.
El Gigante/Giant Gonzales: even Flair couldn't make him a star.
I was going to highlight Dr. Death Steve Williams, because the nature of his bust was so abrupt and self-inflicted by the WWE. Brawl for All!
ReplyDeleteBarry Windham was not a bust; he and Rotundo were a nice tag-team for awhile. And I'd also remove from this list anyone who was screwed over by his own poor choices (Kerry von Erich), and not bad booking.
"The Widowmaker": bust. "The Stalker": bust
ReplyDelete"Mein Name ist Brakkus und ich komme von Deutscheland!"
ReplyDeleteThat's the key phase they skipped with The Ryback, and why he doesn't have the following he needs for his current level.
ReplyDeleteOff the top of my head Jeff Jarrett and Justin Credible's failed main event heel status and title reigns in 2000 are very bust worthy.
ReplyDeleteMuhammad Hassan was another guy that got a lot of hype and was quickly gone due to WWE deviating too far from the original gimmick.
Dude mentioning Scott Hall is very wrong, he is basically a legend. He just had a very unfortunate ending to an otherwise amazing career.
I always felt another problem with how they booked Lashley was that he was never booked as a heel. I mean he's a big mean-looking guy but I always felt that he lacked a viscous streak or Vince's favourite term back in 2002 'Ruthless Aggression'! Compare Lashley to Lesnar who was given a chance to establish himself as an absolute monster, whilst Lashley fought too much like an underdog at times. Really they should have given Lashley the Diesel/Batista push where they are initially just there to be a bodyguard/enforcer/hired gun for another star and then after that gets over enough you start the slow burn of the bodyguard/enforcer/hired gun starting to come across as more of a star than the actual star he's working for before turning them face. Lashley to me was always a black version of Lesnar with a smaller percentage of testicular fortitude.
ReplyDeleteI genuinely don't recall Lashley getting anything better than polite applause because he's the guy we should be cheering.
ReplyDeleteRyback is getting more genuine pops right now than Lashley ever got.
They should have dialled back off giving Lashley the ECW title in the chamber as it was clear from very early on the match that the crowd were going to shit on anyone not named Punk or RVD winning after sitting through that terrible PPV
I never got why the WWF kept Tiger Ali Singh around for so long. He's wasn't on tv so it can't have been in order to appeal to the Indian market. They didn't have him in any storylines or feuds. He was dull in the ring and had little to no charisma.
ReplyDeleteI know the accepted story is that it was as a favour to Tiger Jeet Singh, but I have never found a decent explanation as to why the WWF wanted to suck up to Jeet Singh in this way.
Luger was a huge part of the late 80's NWA, and was insanely over during the nWo angle. His WWF run was hampered by stupid gimmicks and poor opponent choices. Remember not too many wrestlers have clean wins over Hogan, that honor is almost more prestigious than a World Title.
ReplyDeleteThere's varying levels of being a bust. A guy who has all the tools to be THE top guy and shits it away because of drugs and booze and, despite doing some big things never remotely gets there entirely through his own doing? Yeah, that's a pretty big bust.
ReplyDeleteactually mandarich ended up more like a Mark Henry. Terrible start to his career but ended up a serviceable lineman for a few years by the end.
ReplyDeleteExactly. That's not being a bust, that's being an idiot. Scott Hall WAS successful. Scott Hall DREW. And Scott Hall made the companies he worked for lots of money. Last time I checked, that's not a bust.
ReplyDeleteAnd I don't get 'he never won the world title, so he's a bust'. By that argument, is Roddy Piper a bust?
For me I would to with Bam Bam circa 1987. As a 14 year old I thought this guy was the coolest thing ever and genuinely bought him beating Hogan, andre, etc. Too bad he apparently had some backstage issues. Other busts in my mind would be Ludvig Borga (and I'm glad since he was an awful excuse for a human being), Glacier, Bret Hart in WCW, Windahm in WWF, O'Haire (had a great look and moves the crowd loved), Tank Abbott, Vader in WWF, and Heidenreich. The amount of time they gave the UT/Heidenreich casket match at the Rumble was insane.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with this topic, whether we're talking about wrestling or real sports, is differentiating the guys who had the tools to make it big but didn't for whatever reason, from the guys who were overhyped/overrated from the beginning. Or: guys who were good, maybe even very good but were drafted/pushed ahead of guys who were great.
ReplyDeleteMichael Olowokandi, Kwame Brown, Tony Manarich, etc...they were clearly not No. 1 overall pick quality from the very beginning. It's hard to say they were busts when it was moreso just awful scouting. They both ended up being as good as their actual talent dictated. This is the column your Ali Singhs, Bravos and Lashleys fall into. They were made to be a huge deal, but never had the goods to back it up.
Then you have the guys who were top picks/got the rocket strapped to them and ended up being....good, but not megastars. Elton Brand = Alberto Del Rio.
Then there are the guys for whom dehabilitating injury cut short what would have unquestionably been an all-time great career, which, obviously, is a separate, life-isn't-fair category of bust. For this one, Bill Walton = Magnum TA.
Another life-isn't-fair category: guys who never have quite hit the stratospheric heights they're capable of due to circumstances beyond their control...but partially within their control too. How about Jay Cutler (mostly held back by brutal offensive lines and even worse play-callers, but also turns it over too much) = Chris Jericho (mostly held back by HHH, spending time languishing in the mid card when he could've been the biggest post-Rock/Austin, pre-Cena star of the 2000's, but also had other interests and didn't dedicate himself full-time to wrestling). They arrived with huge fanfare to the Bears and WWF respectively from smaller-time organizations (Denver and WCW, respectively) and are really good, but left something on the table mostly because of circumstances out of their control.
Then you have guys who had very, very good careers to the point where it's hard to call them busts in comparison to guys who outright flopped. But personal problems (ie, drugs) kept them from being the all-time greats they unquestionably had the tools to be. Scott Hall = Darryl Strawberry, among any number of examples to choose from on both sides.
You also have the guys who were pretty good but suffer in comparison to those they came in with. We've always heard that Saturn was the guy they wanted to push to the moon out of the Radicalz, and of course Benoit and Eddie ended up being the huge stars. I'll compare that to Glenn Robinson being picked just ahead of Jason Kidd and Grant Hill. The basis-of-comparison to one's direct peers bust, if you will.
Lots of different categories of busts, and far from just guys who sucked. That's the easy part, figuring out who sucked. I think most of them are guys who WERE pretty good, but could have been transcendent and never made it for various reasons.
So, really long story really short: like everything in life, whether or not a guy is a "bust" is relative.
ReplyDeleteAgree with all your points except...
ReplyDeleteWhere has this 'They wanted to push Saturn' stuff come from?
Never heard it until it cropped up on here a month or so back. Not saying its impossible but it just seems very unlikely considering a) Benoit came in as WCW champ (ish) b) Guerrero had the pedigree c) they never did jack shit with Perry
Being really good when you should have been really great, and your own personal demons being the reason you didn't get there, absolutely makes you a bust. As much of one as a guy flopping when he didn't have the talent to begin with. It isn't just "not winning the world title." Yeah, Roddy never won it but I'd say he got way closer to the most of his abilities than Hall.
ReplyDeleteThose guys are less of a bust in the Ryan Leaf sense and more one of those "what is the team thinking by acting like this is a go to guy?" things. think the Lions repeated trotting out of Joey Harrington.
ReplyDeleteHall is a "bust" in the same way that Raven or Jake Roberts or Curt Hennig were "busts", in that for all he (or they) did he (and they) had SO much more to offer. My understanding on Hall is that he's viewed by everyone as naturally gifted for the business as anyone to come along in the last thirty years - people forget that Hall came up in the *territory era* and had SIXTEEN YEARS of experience by the time that, for example, Kevin Nash was a *rookie*.
ReplyDeleteHall (like Roberts or Raven) could do anything that a company needed; face, heel, booker, announcer and could work, talk, had a great look, natural charisma - he's very similar to his one-time tag partner Curt Hennig in that he's a guy that should be in a management role right now, but who ultimately couldn't master his demons.
I agree, it's spurious at best. I think I even questioned it myself when someone brought it up recently but then did some research and found something to the same effect from years ago, but I could be wrong. I need a better example for that one.
ReplyDeleteScott Hall - Darryl Strawberry. Great comparison.
ReplyDeleteLashely came along when the WWE "push" method was hotshotting the world title on guys (Lashley, Swagger, Sheamus, Khali) who weren't ready to draw at that level, then screwing their push down the card when they couldn't carry the show immediately. Khali is an obvious outlier (he's "an attraction", as JR would call him, not a real guy). Sheamus is a little different in that they seem determined to jam him down everyone's throat until we accept him as a top guy, but I have NO idea what they were or are doing with Swagger and Lashley. Swagger can't talk - great, he's 6'6, 240, an amateur stud and can move like a panther. Give him a manager.
ReplyDeleteeverybody thought Mandarich was a beast. Every single scout. He was seen as a can't miss prospect because of both his physical measurements and his domination in college. On the other hand their were very mixed opinions on Michael Olowakandi. He didn't play at a bigtime program in college and wasn't always dominating, but teams got swept up in his size and strength at a time the game was changing away from dominant big men (currently there are two textbook, dominating post centers, one of whom has back problems, the other hasn't played all year due to knee injuries). And Kwame was an unknown. Straight from high school. Hard to guage an 18 year old for both mental and physical development, which is why so many high school picks were busts.
ReplyDeletethe Lions were hardly alone in thinking Harrington was a big-time pro QB prospect. It's hard to say if he might have made it with a better team with a better offensive line, but many a young QB is destroyed on a bad team before they get a real chance. Confidence is king in the NFL, and guys like Harrington and David Carr lost their confidence due to being constantly under pressure and having limited weapons before they had a real change to develop. That's not to say they would have become great on a better team, just that they weren't guys that got ideal situations nor were they someone like Jarrett who only had one or two believers while getting a huge push while everyone else shook their head.
ReplyDeleteCan't imagine why anyone thought Mandarich was juiced up....
ReplyDeletehttp://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0417/nfl_mandarich_combine_400.jpg
The guy was basically a real life version of Lattimer from "The Program".
I never saw him in the AWAish era, other than photos, b ut he certainly had the look with the magnum PI afro and 'stashe, Just personally I could never had have bought "razor ramon" as a world champ, maybe a different persona would have helped. Using the NFL analogy, there's a difference between Leaf, and a guy like Tony Romo. Has Romo won the superbowl? No, but he is a critical player for his team. Like Hall.
ReplyDeleteI have a few guys tha I thought were busts:
ReplyDeleteMuhammad Hassan = Was one of my favorite WWE characters; very racy, risque character. But because WWE did a terrible segment - Daivari being carried by masked men like a martyr on Smackdown a few years ago - people complained and WWE canceled the character. Would have been cool to to have seen a John Cena vs Muhamma Hassan match on a wrestlemania. USA vs Iraq.
Low-Ki = A legit bad ass, martial arts / MMA fighter who could kick my butt. The guy competed in the indy scene for 10 years. My first time watching a indy show live, he was on the card. FINALLY makes it into the WWE under the name Kaval, but for whatever reason he decided to leave.
Billy Gunn = I like Gunn. I thought he had a great look and was athletic as hell. Aside from a quick program with The Rock in Summerslam of 1999, not much happen for him after that as a singles star. I thought he should have been a singles star but it did not happen.
Raven = My favorite ECW character of all time. Leaves ECW and goes to WCW, was never the same. Goes to the WWE in 1999, never gets a chance. Achieved more success - from my perspective - performing in TNA in their early days.
Tazz = Legend in ECW but was a too small in the WWE. Aside from his great WWE debut in MSG versus Kurt Angle, he did nothing on the wrestling side.
That's what I'm talking about, though, regarding Mandarich. You're right, scouts absolutely drooled over him. And with the benefit of hindsight, we know they were wrong. He was a roided-up monster with little to no agility, natural ability or feel for the game.
ReplyDeleteI actually thought Carlito was going to be pushed to the main event in 2007 and it surprised me when I turned on WWE in 2010 and he was still in the midcard.
ReplyDeleteI'd say Ken Anderson (Kennedy) in WWE also qualifies as a bust. He was supposed to be a big future star in 2005-2006 and won the MITB in 2007, but apparently got held down by WWE for whatever reason. He goes to TNA in 2010, gets over as their #1 face by the end of the year and proceeds to be a total flop in 2011 and barely even used since.
I still don't understand why they gave up on O'Haire so abruptly in 2003. He got over on his own, but then they decided to stick him with Piper and get rid of everything unique about him. It might just be that he was a WCW guy and Vince didn't want to push anybody from WCW (the same reason the Invasion failed).
Another one that's just popped into my head
ReplyDeleteDesmond Wolfe / Nigel McGuinness
Absolutely brilliant debut in TNA, seemed like he was going to own the main event there and then it all stopped due to his health issues
Not his fault obviously but a definate case of promise not being delivered on
From what I remember reading, O'Haire really flopped on the house shows with that Devil'a Advocate gimmick.
ReplyDeleteThe martyr thing wasn't the issue, the issue was the masked men themselves, and that they had Hassan strangle the Undertaker with piano wire immediately after the London bombings happened.
ReplyDeleteNord the Barbarian.....that guy had it all and did nothing with it. Same for Billy Jack Haynes. I kinda disagree on Bigelow tho (I mean can you REALLY be considered a bust if you main event Wrestlemania and win a ton of titles in different feds?)
ReplyDeleteIf anyone is a Ryan Leaf of wrestling it would be someone that was pushed to the moon and expected to be great who ruined their greatness because they did it themselves with laziness and arrogance, not because the bookers found nothing for them.
ReplyDeleteThat said I'd vote Buff Bagwell. Guy had all the tools to be a multi time champion in both WCW and WWE but was a professional dick backstage so he fizzled out way before his time.
What happened with Carlito that caused his push to fizzle? I remember there was a moment when Ric Flair basically slapped him in the face and told him to take advantage of the opportunities in front of him - but I don't recall why his push was deflated so suddenly.
ReplyDeleteRick Mirer, Tim Couch, David Carr, Joey Harrington....QB scouting in the NFL is the biggest crapshoot in sports.
ReplyDeletewell carr and harrington were both pretty universally seen as top prospects. Mirer and Couch had doubters but had the requisite physical skills that sometimes blind a team to make a bad pick (JaMarcus Russell who was far from universally loved but the Raiders fell in love with his physical skills, for one example).
ReplyDeletefor me I thought we were talking bust as of 1987 not his mid 90s work. That said, he was a mid-carder who got the main event slot because they didn't want to job anyone really over to LT. Now Bam Bam was hugely over in ECW and was great there and he did decent in WCW for awhile. But based on how he came in in 1987, he was a bust then and I would say never came anywhere near what many fans thought he would be.
ReplyDeleteI think Ken Shamrock could fit here. You got the feeling the WWF wanted him to be a main eventer. He was getting them outside publicity because of his background and they did put some of there secondary titles on him. But for some reason it never happened.
ReplyDeleteI never understood why Goldust wasn't at least a minor main eventer like Mick Foley was. Even a transitional reign would have been nice.
I know he is a legend, but I think Ted Dibiase could fit here in the Scott Hall (minus the demons) mode. He had all the tools, but after his feud with Hogan he was strictly midcarder.
I don't remember "mixed opinions" about Olowokandi. He was 24 years old coming out of University of the Pacific where he was barely a 20/10 guy in college. That's a guy you take a flier on, maybe a top 10 pick if you feel like you can develop him but taking him #1 was absolute nonsense at the time, even for Elgin and the Clippers.
ReplyDeleteKwame Brown though is by all accounts an American tragedy. He had skills but people didn't realize that he wasn't a Kobe (who was essentially a small version of an adult) or a Moses Malone, but he was still literally a child. I remember reading an article about how when he came to Washington he didn't know how to do laundry. His agent came over and found him without any clothes to wear and all his suits laying in the corner. He didn't know how to eat on his own, his agent found that he'd been eating takeout chicken every meal he was unsupervised for. Then you get into his childhood hero breaking him down mentally 2 times a day for 3 months and it's no wonder that guy never truly developed.
Let's also not blame guys for being a 'bust' because of booking, rather than a fault of their own. Like, Ted Dibiase was hardly a bust in WWE --- he was an awesome character and an upper midcarder at worst for his entire run as a wrestler in the company. He would've definitely gotten at least a short run with the world title had WWE booked the championship like they do now, or even like they did by the mid-1990's.
ReplyDeleteScott Steiner's 2002-03 WWE run was definitely a bust.
D'lo Brown, Test & Val Venis all got pretty over at one point and just fizzled, probably because Russo left so maybe politics were involved.
ReplyDeleteDefinately Anderson. WWE wanted him to be the next Austin SO bad and he just did so many dumbass things. Now he's in TNA and they brought him in like a star and they are trying to tease him with Aces just to give him something to do.
ReplyDeleteLady Blossum or Missy Hyatt
ReplyDeleteI heard ohaire didn't get pushed because of dressing room heat from him not saying hello to the undertaker properly.
ReplyDeleteFrom everything I've heard, Low Ki is a total prima donna. Even ROH doesn't want him at this point.
ReplyDeleteBo Jackson = Magnum TA
ReplyDeleteSean O'Haire was the future of wrestling long before the WWE gave him any kind of gimmick. He was the only reason I watched WCW during its dying days and thought that he was amazing. With the speed and agility of a cruiserweight, the body of a main event heavyweight and one of the best "it factors" in history he was a can't miss superstar.
ReplyDeleteWhy he wasn't pushed to the moon is beyond me and one of the worst fuck ups ever.
Sheamus reminds me of him. He certainly doesn't have the ability of O'Haire, but he has a commanding and unique appearance, the size and the presence that O'Haire had.
Val's gimmick was over, but pretty much put a cap on how high he was gonna go. D-Lo was punished for injuring Droz and Test...well, he was Test.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. If Ryback had been a bodyguard for someone like CM Punk (based on their Nexxus history?) and eventually got tired of it (ala Batista/Evolution) it could have been interesting
ReplyDeleteLudvig Borga, Justin Credible (ECW), Heidenreich, King Mabel, Muhammad Hassan, Billy Gunn, Nathan Jones
ReplyDeleteOk... He's a performer that can do jobs and still keep his heat. Sells merch as a heel and helped bring up not 1... Not 2... but 3 companies...
ReplyDeleteYes... the AWA as BIG Scott Hall...
Thats not a bust.
You sound like a mark.
Both shit gimmicks.
ReplyDeleteThe Widomaker sounds cool but he never stayed long and the stalker was WAYYYYY past his prime.
I think people are really not understanding what a "bust" is.
David Flair = Luke Walton?
ReplyDeleteHarrington was THE SURE THING going into the draft that year. Mirer was too... they said he didnt have the Montana arm but he had legs and the other intangibles.
ReplyDeleteHe got the main event spot because he was a safe worker who could put on a good match with lt. Bam bam got put in lots of feuds with sloppy and stiff workers because of his safe but impressive looking style
ReplyDeleteRe: Ted Dibiase
ReplyDeleteWHAT?!?!
He was a heel during Hulkamania... You're selling out everywhere you go. You have ABC shows 7 nights a week. Are you gonna kill the golden goose for a transitional run?
Dibiase was heavily protected. Never did jobs in singles matches. Had a huge run with Hogan AND Savage on top.
How is this a bust?!
Everyone can not win the world title...
Nord (according to his shoot) was supposed to team and then feud with Brody... but then Brody died.
ReplyDeleteIm sure that was gonna catapult him to superstardom. Verne had him doing jobs to Baron and Crusher... Thats gonna kill your gimmick and once he went to NYC it was a wrap.
Lack of motivation.
ReplyDeletePlus talks of making WWC a developmental fizzled... and that pretty much sealed the deal on Carlito cuz he was Colons top guy... Carltio was a 10 time WWC champion...
Yea... i know...
Best comparison on here.
ReplyDeleteI have to add Chris Masters to the list. He was bust despite all the pushing WWE did. I think it was SVR 2007 and during campaign mode he kept showing up I was like "get this fucker out of my game!"
ReplyDeleteYeah, Bagwell should have been something
ReplyDeleteYeah, if WCW could have stayed afloat a while longer, they may have had something in O'Haire facing guys like Steiner, Goldberg, and Booker. Pretty surprising that Vince never gave it a go with him, Batista-style, because he seemed to fit the mold of his kind of guys. Maybe its just that ridiculous "WCW guy stigma" thing
ReplyDeleteDibiase is one of the most memorable heels ever, during a great high point of wrestling. He made money with more than just Hogan and got as close to WWF Champion as heels did back then.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. D-Lo seemed like he would become a decent upper-card star one day, but the Droz accident killed his potential.
ReplyDeleteBart Gunn? ;-)
ReplyDeleteMirer also had a different offensive coordinator every year.
ReplyDeleteBut he was a bust!!
ReplyDeleteI swear Smart marks are the real marks sometimes.
My own opinion... he got Hep C.
ReplyDeleteHow is SCOTT HALL even in this conversation?
ReplyDeleteA "bust", in professional sports context, is someone who enters with high expectations (i.e., a high draft pick) and fails to meet them.
Scott Hall had no expectations in NWA/AWA and not much for his WWE debut either, By any measure, he exceeded expectations for most of his career... considering he was in some fantastic matches + started the biggest angle in wrestling history + was always over like Rover.
I agree with everyone who commented that he squandered his massive potential in WCW from about 1998 and beyond, but that does not make him a bust.
Yeah, Low Ki believes his own character to a degree that would make Taz say "Relax man, it's a fuckin work"
ReplyDelete"You say you're a "Smart Mark", but the key there is you're still a mark"
ReplyDeleteThe wisest thing Shane Douglas has ever said.
O'Haire froze like a deer in headlights during live attempts as his "demotivational" speeches. Plus, he did smack a woman, then deny it by bragging that if he HAD hit her, she'd be in the hospital.
ReplyDeleteNFL QB success is wildly dependent on OC consistentcy, O-line and system. Swap David Carr, who was sacked *76* times in his rookie year and led the NFL in times sacked three of his first four years, and Aaron Brooks, who had a solid season with a GREAT O-line, and see what happens.
ReplyDeletesafety was certainly a factor but if anyone thinks Shawn or Bret or Diesel or even Razor or some other guys were doing the the job to a football player, they are crazy. Bam bam looked intimidating, had enough of a name with WWF fans, as you mentioned was safe, and wasn't in any major future WWF plans so they could safely job him and finish any credibility he had.
ReplyDeleteFirst DiBiase was more than a midcarder, 2nd, that was standard in the WWF. You came in and got built up for the big program with Hogan, then you moved back down the card. DiBiase got a longer run with Hogan and also with savage than most heels ever did and he consistently had upper card feuds with guys like Dusty Rhodes for 3 years after. Then he got to be a top tag team for a couple years. There is no way DiBiase was a bust in WWF.
ReplyDeleteAhmed Johnson had a lot of positives and you could see that he was being primed for the WWF Title on 2 separate occasions. He had 2 major injuries that kept him out for months at a time and by the time he was ready, the top had passed him by.
ReplyDeleteAhmed Johnson is Greg Oden.
Shame on you all. No Outback Jack?!?
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, I'm not aware of Ryan Leaf's mom ever calling the Chargers GM to tell him he was going to miss a game, so he has that going for him.
ReplyDeleteI remember people fully expecting WCW to book around him had they not been sold to McMahon. Like, people saying "That's their next big star" when everyone assumed Bischoff would be running things again.
ReplyDeleteOur knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes is like a game of telephone, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteNo expectations in the AWA? The guy was teaming with Curt Henning when Hennig was being groomed as the future of the company. He was also feuding with Col. Debeers when Debeers was one of like the three top heels in the company. Verne clearly saw something in the guy.
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking that they might have done better had most of WCW's good midcarders not showed up when they did. I think that pretty well meant they weren't going any farther than they had up to that point. Well, at least for D'lo and Val. They kept trying with Test for a while there and just never could make that happen.
ReplyDeleteHe was one of the few guys I've ever resented for getting a mega push. I know people came around on him during his second run with WWE, but I never really saw why that was.
ReplyDeleteWell, and he was released because he wouldn't go to rehab, so there's that in the mix too.
ReplyDeleteHe did team with Brody for a short period. It wasn't very memorable from what little I've seen on the AWA on ESPN reruns.
ReplyDeletewe have a winner.
ReplyDeletethough, Aksana has nothing compared to B.B. Or Kaitlyn, for that matter!
ReplyDeletenah, Magnum TA wasn't the greatest pure athlete that pro rasslin' had ever seen, like Bo was to pro sports.
ReplyDeletepart of the issue with Taz was HHH getting to beat him so handily, killing much of his heat. Even Vince admitted on a DVD that this was a mistake. Taz was pretty over, IIRC.
ReplyDelete*definitely. With an I.
ReplyDeleteMy apologies - not trying to be a D; just trying to educate ;)
Madusa, too, post-op.
ReplyDeleteDibiase was such a success that he transcended wrestling. His gimmick is known by people who even have a passing knowledge of WWF. Very few men to lace up the boots can ever claim to have that kind of cache.
ReplyDeletetrue. i wear my $million man shirt from BSW and people recognize it, no matter how long it's been since they watched.
ReplyDeleteSean O'Haire seemed pretty "can't miss", but as others have elaborated, he had some issues that went beyond the now-infamous "rubbed guys the wrong way backstage/didn't say hi the right way" stuff that internet fans complain about.
ReplyDeleteBrock Lesnar is a pretty big example, just in terms of the true Next Big Star just retiring at the top of his game for several years.
That works, too.
ReplyDeleteThough, didn't Magnum, like, never work again after his injury? Bo and Walton still toiled away for a few years and were productive veterans, if not shells of their former selves (Walton on the great Celtics teams of the mid-80's, Jackson as a DH for the White Sox when they made the playoffs in '93). Gale Sayers might actually be the best comparison for Magnum.
I hope so. We're all marks, or else we wouldn't enjoy watching.
ReplyDeleteI see some of you aren't getting how this is a relative term, and are only capable of seeing a guy as a bust if he was, y'know, bad. It's an entirely subjective thing in the first place, so I don't know how my way of looking at this is any less correct than anyone else's.
If you say I sound like a mark because I'm saying Scott Hall never won the world title, well, that's never what I said. I never denied any of the great things he did. But they were much fewer and further between than they could've been. Scott Hall had everything. He was a great talker, a great worker, was huge and had a great look and multiple good gimmicks. He had nothing holding him back politically.
And did he ever even main event a WWF or WCW PPV solo? This is a guy that could have ascended to being the biggest star in the business at more than one point. I find it borderline indisputable that he had the tools to do this. I find it equally indisputable that the only thing that kept him from those heights were his own problems that he created for himself. Sorry. but that's a bust. Someone who could have been an all-time great but snorted and drank their way to being merely very good is as big of a waste as someone who was merely a bad idea on the part of management and never had the goods to begin with.
I was a huge Sean O'Haire fan, but I honestly don't remember the answer to the following two questions: did he ever show any mic skills? Did he ever display that he could hold his own in a high-level singles match? I mean, is it certain that Sheamus, for example, doesn't have O'Haire's ability? We've seen Sheamus hold his own in 4-star matches quite a few times. Maybe O'Haire never had the same opportunities- certainly a good case to be made for that- but maybe he was never as good as we thought he was. (And I'm definitely in that category. When I first saw him I thought the same thing you did: this is the future of wrestling.)
ReplyDeleteIf I were to extend my already-too-long bust analogy post from earlier, he'd be in the "workout warrior" category, like Mike Mamula or Vernon Gholston in football. Dudes who looked like 10 million bucks, showed all the skills to be worth 50 million bucks, but couldn't actually put it all together when the lights were on. Maybe O'Haire just never got the right push or was protected booking-wise the way others were, but I have the nagging suspicion he was never gonna bring it all together.
Brakkus.
ReplyDeleteWho?
Exactly.
Give it a year and you could say Sid Crosby is Magnum TA.
ReplyDeleteI've heard that theory. The consensus seems to be concussions and that Nigel is smart enough to get out while he can instead of trying to live up to some crazy standard of toughness.
ReplyDeleteI subscribe to that theory because he wouldnt tell nobody for the longest time.
ReplyDeleteI mean if I had too many concussions, id just yo i gotta step down cuz my brain keeps swelling and it hurts to think.
If I had Hep C, Id be a little more hesitant to tell people, cuz that scares people. Makes people not wanna even touch you. Let alone wrestle you.
Yeah, but at least Crosby got to the top of his sport, won a title and held the "best player alive" crown for a few years.
ReplyDeleteBuddy Landel. Couldn't stay clean.
ReplyDeleteJonathan Bender, was drafted #6 out of high school and played for the Pacers from 1999 to 2006. It eventually turned into a running joke here in Indianapolis how many times coaches and players would talk about how great he was in practice, just could never quite put it together during the games. Around his 3rd season it looked like he might be turning into a player, but eventually he started to have injury after injury, and could never stay on the floor long enough to develop any further. But that guy's practices were the stuff of legend.
ReplyDeleteBust?
ReplyDeleteGood point. Seems like at this point he should just come out with whatever it is because people will conjure the worst thing possible if you are all mysterious.
ReplyDeleteCouch wasn't a complete bust. He got the expansion Brown's to their one and only playoff appearance and some Cleveland fans recognize he inherited a terrible OL that.could not protect him.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the reply, Scott. And I have no idea what happened with the formatting, looked fine when I sent it...
ReplyDeleteYi Jianlian would also fall in that category.
ReplyDeleteGreg Oden = Sin Cara?
ReplyDeleteDominated the lesser leagues, injury robbed them of quality time and then never took off once they were finally fit.