Hi Scott,
Watching the Kofi/Cesaro match from RAW, it reinforced my belief that Cesaro's European uppercut should be enough to put an opponent away, especially when he does it while diving at his opponent or while the opponent is coming at him, either from the turnbuckle or when Cesaro launches him into the air and then catches him as he comes back down.
Can you think of any moves (current or from days gone by) that by all rights were believable as finishers (both in terms of impact and visual presentation) but aren't? I think Cesaro's Eurpean uppercut is a perfect example of something that fits both criteria, since he delivers it with believable "oomph" while it at the same time is visually stunning and can come from out of nowhere.
Ooh, intriguing one. Although in "yesteryear" guys would beat jobbers with all sorts of crazy shit just for fun, so generally any wacky move you can name has been a finisher at some point.
Watching the Kofi/Cesaro match from RAW, it reinforced my belief that Cesaro's European uppercut should be enough to put an opponent away, especially when he does it while diving at his opponent or while the opponent is coming at him, either from the turnbuckle or when Cesaro launches him into the air and then catches him as he comes back down.
Off the top of my head, Haku's thrust kick always should have been, although it kind of developed into one in the later stages of the King Haku gimmick, but it didn't have the same impact as he did when he was with the Islanders. I always thought that the Edge-O-Matic could have had potential as a finisher. Goldberg had a bunch of random cool stuff he used to do, like the press slam into the snap powerslam, which was honesty kind of wasted when everyone only wanted the spear and jackhammer anyway. Scott Steiner's Screwdriver is basically the most awesomest finisher ever invented but he did it so infrequently (due to, you know, not wanting to maim his opponent) that it's hard to think it could have lasted as a true finisher.
But you're right though, that uppercut is really something else, and if Cesaro ever gets to win another match I hope he uses it as a finish.
I'd like for Cesaro to use the Alpamare Waterslide. Just give a better name and off you go.
ReplyDeleteCesaro's Euro uppercut is probably the closest they've come to recreating the Sweet Chin Music magic.
ReplyDeleteFor some other examples, Ziggler's got a million, Kofi's SOS, Ambrose's snap DDT(no idea if he is gonna use that or not, but he should), and Bryan's head kick.
I always thought Benoit/Angle/Eddie's multiple suplex combos could've been cool finishers on their own.
ReplyDeleteWhen i first saw Cesaro do the diving upper cut off the top (or was it middle?) rope onto Brodus on Raw a while back, my jaw really hit the floor. I also immediatly thought of M. Bison when he did the move
ReplyDeleteR-Truth's suplex-into-a-stunner move that he's used over the past couple years as a meaningless midmatch move seems like something that should have been a finisher. Although he obviously could only do it to guys around his own size or smaller (I think the Miz was on the end of it a lot), it looked AWESOME.
ReplyDeleteThis doesn't necessarily pertain to the topic, but Brock Lesnar (or anybody) should bring back the BROCK LOCK:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHR1aG4UDw0
Caution: Watching it may cause viewer's spine to snap. May contain traces of Chris Benoit.
Meng also had that awesome 'both legs with one arm'-Sharpshooter type move that I've never seen anybody else use. Really should have been someone else's finish.
ReplyDeleteSheamus' Irish Curse Backbreaker could make it as a finisher.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone ever used the enzuigiri as a finisher? Owen used to use it as a regular mid-match move. Sickest one I remember seeing.
ReplyDeleteBetter name? Are you crazy? The name is AWESOME!
ReplyDeleteYep, i use it as one in wwe 13. It looks sick.
ReplyDeleteRikishi's Rikishi Driver was only used as a finisher for a short bit, and he also did the Earthquake Splash. He soon switched out both, and didn't use either as a finisher very often. Kind of too bad- the Rikishi Driver is extremely safe (by Piledriver standards) since the guy is so far off the ground when he "hits".
ReplyDeleteI think 90% of Ring Of Honor matches used to be nothing but finishers. I watched a few matches and I was like "are they just... doing all the huge moves to each other?"
Bad News Brown did, you beer-belly sharecropper.
ReplyDeleteWell, in Truth's defense, when you're real finisher is just that gosh darn awesome, everything else will just look like cra......oh who am I kidding
ReplyDeleteI will say this, but using the over-the-top, flamboyant gay guy voice:
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOUU!!!!!!
OSAKA STREET CUTTER!
ReplyDeleteOSAKA STREET CUTTERRRR!!
ReplyDeleteRegular ol' Power Bomb. .
ReplyDeleteOn a side note, the Brogue Kick is one of the worst finishers in current wrestling.
ReplyDeleteBig Show's 'Final Cut' is a personal bug bear. Much better than his chokeslam or pussy punch.
ReplyDeleteThat was his finisher when he first started in ECW.
ReplyDeleteI think Zigglers finisher should be the fameasser, I think it gets more reaction generally than the Zig Zag.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, this is why I greatly dislike ROH for the most part. It's just huge over the top elaborate finisher one after the other with little psychology or storytelling in between. They are meant to be all about wrestling yet they take a large chunk of realism out of it because of this style.
ReplyDeleteEddie's MDK Powerbomb. Seriously, Rampage beat a guy in Pride with a lesser-looking manuever.
ReplyDeleteTurning the DDT into a transition move is one of the things I hate most in wrestling. Jake's DDT was probably the most killer finisher in WWE history, until guys started using it for two-counts in the middle of matches (Owen was the first I saw do this, then Rock). Raven re-elevated it as a finisher in ECW before WWE killed it for good.
ReplyDeleteOrton's draping DDT should be a match-ender, not a set-up for a finisher. Just getting angry typing this.
Almost all of Orton's moveset is finishing moves. Which, oddly enough, makes it boring.
ReplyDeleteHenry should be using the full nelson. Not only would it be a credible finisher for him, the visual would be great too: imagine this huge, hulking black guy with no eyeballs, looming over his opponent, sinking him to the mat.
ReplyDeleteIt is, but no way the WWE would use it. If they wanted to make Cesaro a face overnight, gave start doing the UFO again.
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of moves that I was disappointed became transition moves, but I agree the DDT is one of if not the biggest offender.
ReplyDeleteGhetto Blaster!
ReplyDeleteSheamus has several moves, including this one, that could be finishers.
ReplyDeleteI still think Ziggler should use the Rude Awakening. He can figure out ways to hit it from different positions without killing his opponent it will get over.
ReplyDeleteDamned shame how he stretched out Stevie Richards in that clip.
ReplyDeleteHe did the Crossface/Walls of Jericho combo as well.
ReplyDeleteRoH is certainly guilty of this SOMETIMES, but you're seriously shortchanging the product if you think that's true of the entire company.
ReplyDeleteYes! Plus the double powerbomb!
ReplyDeleteBring back the swinging full nelson!
ReplyDeleteBut his slam is pretty cool, too. It's a basic move but the way Mark does it looks painful/powerful. Plus his primal scream when executing it adds to the flair.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that draping DDT looks better than his freakin' RKO. It drives me crazy that he waits for the guy to get up from the DDT before finishing him, whereas the draper (that's a good name for it!) is a perfect set-up for a finisher when the opponent is on his back.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's too close to Sandow's finisher.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I hate the Zig Zag. He was doing the superkick but Dolph's didn't look that good. The Fameasser would be a good one for him.
ReplyDeleteI also like his swinging/elevated DDT.
HBK had that weird submission a few years back. Starts out like a sharpshooter and then turns into a strange figure-four. Really cool-looking move.
ReplyDeleteGeneralizing is fun!
ReplyDeleteSo true
ReplyDeleteInoki
ReplyDeleteBut he could yell de-motivational slogans while applying the full nelson!
ReplyDeleteJericho used to the do double powerbomb a lot, but he gave it up b/c it takes such a toll on the back. I remember once where he did it to Road Dogg, and before the 2nd one, you could see RD grab Jericho's hands to brace himself so that he didn't move around when Jericho went to lift him. I think the 2x powerbomb is best for the bigger guys who won't have as much trouble lifting the dead weight for the the 2nd one.
ReplyDeleteWhile I have nothing against the Jawbreaker Lariat, there was no reason that the Tower of London should have been relegated to a setup move by Nigel McGuinness.
ReplyDeleteJericho was using a running enzuigiri as a finisher for a short while back in 2004.
ReplyDeleteThe first time I saw Rikishi in a squash match, I was blown away. He hit the Pop-Up Diamond Cutter, the Superkick, the Earthquake Splash, and finally the Rikishi Driver all in a row. It was like a finisher exhibition. What made it so bad ass is that this was all consecutive. There were no false finishes in between; it was pure overkill.
ReplyDeleteGAAAAAAARRRRRRR A MOVE AINT WHAT IT USED TO BE
ReplyDeleteI wish someone would bring back the slingshot suplex as a serious finisher.
ReplyDeleteAlso, because he used it when I first became a fan of his...I wish someone would use the Teardrop Suplex that HBK used when he first became a singles wrestler.
Good point
ReplyDeleteYes!!! I loved Jericho's double powerbomb, but I agree it should be saved for the bigger wrestlers who would have an easier time lifting that weight.
ReplyDeleteAnd all of that is bullshit only ever peddled by people who have never watched much ROH
ReplyDeleteThat won me over. "This is what I do!" goes from entertaining to sinister in that scenario.
ReplyDeleteAny other move in Zigler's moveset is more "effective" looking than the Zig-Zag. Honestly, what the hell is that move even doing, and how is that a legit finisher?
ReplyDeleteSomeone should rehab the Abdominal Stretch--seriously. You can apply it to most guys; you can apply it standing up, on the mat, or off an Irish Whip; you can apply it tight or loose; you can vary it with a chinlock or a head-vice; and you can transition it into an Octopus Hold or a pinning combination. You can cheat with it too. It even has two counters: one via chain wrestling, the other via power-out.
ReplyDeleteIt's basically the best performance hold ever.
(And if you don't think it can look painful, watch one of Billy Robinson's matches.)
ReplyDeleteIs that his whirlybird thing where he drops his arms and keeps spinning?
ReplyDeleteYup, the no-hands airplane spin.
ReplyDeleteI saw Kazarian do a slingshot suplex into a Rude Awakening that was super badass.
ReplyDeleteI guess jumping and slamming the back of the dude's head into the mat is a good finish, but I do like his fameasser better.
ReplyDeleteI've seen plenty of matches that WERE, and plenty that weren't. Many of the legendary bouts I've seen were more "slow build" and built up to stuff properly, but a lot of matches just turned into an Indie Stunt Show or "well a dragon suplex two minutes in is good, so long as you hit 10 more devastating moves right afterwards".
ReplyDeleteIt just wouldn't be the same without Gorilla Monsoon bitching about the leg not being in the right place.
ReplyDeleteWinner, winner, chicken dinner. That jumping DDT is far and away his best looking move. And unlike a lot of smaller guys finishers, it actually looks BETTER when hits it on a big man.
ReplyDeleteHow can Dolph become even more popular with smarks? Bringing back the DDT as a finisher.
For a while they were all finishers....the Curse, the razor's edge (I think he calls it the Celtic Cross), and the White Noise were all finishing matches for Sheamus during his WHC reign. Then he went all Brogue Kick all the time.
ReplyDeleteSheamus' White Noise strikes me as something that should be a MDK finisher but I seem to recall it being used to set up the Brogue Kick more than anything else. Irish Curse (Rock Bottom backbreaker) could be a finisher too, but it's just a setup to his other moves. Brogue Kick is a fine move, but it should be the setup for his three better moves (Curse, Noise, Celtic Cross aka razor's edge).
ReplyDeleteIt also bugs me that in the span of about a decade the Falcon Arrow in Japan when from a finisher to a ho-hum transition move. (Or so I've been told.) A suplex into pretty much anything should be a big deal, especially a suplex into a move that has been used as a finisher (Michinoku Driver II).
Really? It's a 260 pound guy kicking you in the head!
ReplyDeletealthough it might not be if he had occasionally beat someone with any of them.
ReplyDeleteprime example is his ddt with the opponent hanging on the ropes. that is such an awesome move. but I don't buy into the nearfall at all because afaik he has NEVER beaten anyone with it.
this. this. this. I LOVE that jumping ddt.
ReplyDeletethey kind-of it built up after Hart "put out" Shawn Michaels in 1995. but since his role was just being cannon fodder on HBKs way to WrestleMania it was forgotten after a few weeks.
ReplyDeletebtw: Michaels going over is another decision that I think wasn't that smart. him losing to Hart at the In Your House in February would have not only put the result of the WrestleMania match more in doubt (I was 13 at the time but even I knew there was no way Bret Hart was going to win. I mean, he had almost lost the title twice in his two ppv matches before) but it would have also been a much better build up for a post-WrestleMania feud than the stuff they had with the Bulldog and Diana.
the Skull Crushing Finale really is a horrible finisher.
ReplyDeleteCena used to use the Emerald Flowsion. I will stop there.
ReplyDeleteHuh...I assume we're just talking about moves they use right now, cause plenty of guys did crazy head-drops in the indies that should only be used as finishers.
Bryan's headbutt shouldn't be used, but if he's going to keep doing it, make it a goddamn finisher.
Ryback's powerbombs look way better than the Shellshock.
Now now don't be so defensive. I've watched a lot of ROH over the years and that is what I see regularly. Davey Richards is a prime example of this.
ReplyDeleteLol. "No eyeballs".
ReplyDeleteOnly he lands on his back to, and from a greater height. It's one of those moves that's supposed to be fast and high impact so it looks good without thinking about it.
ReplyDeleteFor some reason I thought he beat RVD with it but I can't find a video of it.
ReplyDeleteJake's DDT was awesome - he did it fast, it looked like there was a hell of an impact and they guy sold it like he was dead. I don't like when guys set it up and then do it, it looks better in one quick motion and I hate the roll-through sell - just do it fast and make it look like you planted the guy's head in the ground and he's knocked cold.
ReplyDeleteI think that 1-2-3 Kid of all people was the first person to bust that move out on WWF programming.
ReplyDeletei never heard of that powerbomb
ReplyDeleteLinkage?
The "Laying the Smackdown" DDT that the Rock used to use when he floated over an opponent off the ropes was too cool to just be a transition move.
ReplyDeleteYeah Owen should have won more matches with that. Owen also had one of the greatest belly-to-belly suplexes of all time.
ReplyDeleteThe Rampage powerbomb?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKpzKZOpe4
I cannot think of one of the top of my head, but going the opposite direction, I HATE how the DDT went from a badass finish in the hands of Jake Roberts & Raven to being a lame transition move. People also don't sell it properly anymore. Back in the day, people would just take it flush on the forehead, or maybe block protect with the back of their hand, staying belly down throughout the process, and it looked devastating. Nowadays, they simply somersault through it and it loses any possible impact it could have. Looks really stupid, if you're asking me.
ReplyDeleteAnd I know you all are.
to me, none of Ziggler's moves look particularly effective. He should adopt a crescent kick as his finisher. He's used it a couple times and it looked awesome. Kofi: same deal. I'm interested to see Ambrose's DDT (especially after my earlier post), and Bryan's kicks are awesome, and I agree should be finishes.
ReplyDeletealso, may include groping of chode.
ReplyDelete"Sweet sassy molassy, I love that belly-to-belly."
ReplyDelete~Scott Keith
my favorite Rude Awakening was one that he put on Ultimate Warrior on an episode of SNME, 1990. He slapped it on QUICK and looked SICK.
ReplyDeletewow i just posted the same idea before i got to your comment.
ReplyDeletegreat minds...
similar to the Edge-ecution?
ReplyDeleteany variation of the stroke is a horrible finisher. doesn't matter that Jericho did it, either ("the breakdown")
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm not questioning that Davey overkills everything.
ReplyDeleteIt's more the no psychology coment that annoys me. Steen has shown great psychology for years. Even Davey can have a good match when someone walks him through it
Unless you're Anderson Silva, a front kick won't do shit.
ReplyDeleteArn Anderson's spinebuster started as an unnamed transition move, then got a name and became a finisher, and now done by other people it's a transition move again.
ReplyDeleteScott's yesteryear comment made me think of the Midnight Express, who used to bust out finisher-quality double-team moves on jobbers on a regular basis just for fun.
I always like the variation where you hook the leg behind the opponents head instead of the arm.
ReplyDeleteIt's only effective looking if it's done FAST.
ReplyDeleteHe needs a submission move he can name the "wig splitter".
ReplyDeleteI like moves that come out of nowhere and Jake's DDT was cool for that reason.
ReplyDeleteElbow drops are also retarded. Who cares?
ReplyDeleteIt looks good and it needs to be set up, so it works as a finisher.
Disagree. That seems to be WWE's current mentality: "Let's shock 'em with a Wrestler X win by having them lose major matches leading up to the big match." I'm far more interested in seeing two guys both looking strong going into a match.
ReplyDeleteEdgeucator. The Edgeucution was his version of the Impaler.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Scott's comment on Goldberg's press slam into the powerslam, it looked so sick when he hit it on Orton in the Elimination Chamber at SummerSlam '03. Goldberg was the last guy in and ended his initially flurry on everyone with that.
ReplyDelete