The moment when you realized wrestling was scripted. Or, if you didn't have a moment per say, when you came around to it.
For me, it was when I was 14. Yeah, that's old. I had pretty much knew what the score was, but the final nail in the coffin is when a friend of mine brought his uncle's copy of what must have been the WON or something to that effect to school. I read about all this crazy backstage stuff, and how Macho Man agreed to do the 6-man tag at Starrcade 1997 so long as he got the pin. Right then I had to come to grips.
When I was a kid I'd argue with people, and say things like "You can't fake a Razor's Edge or a Jackknife!". My mom would say things like "If the nWo isn't under WCW's employ, how are they making any money? And why wouldn't WCW just call the cops?". To which I'd say "Duh, mom, they have BILLIONAIRE Ted on their side. Plus, WCW knows that the nWo is all money, and all ratings. They don't want to lose that!"
How say you?
For me, it was when I was 14. Yeah, that's old. I had pretty much knew what the score was, but the final nail in the coffin is when a friend of mine brought his uncle's copy of what must have been the WON or something to that effect to school. I read about all this crazy backstage stuff, and how Macho Man agreed to do the 6-man tag at Starrcade 1997 so long as he got the pin. Right then I had to come to grips.
When I was a kid I'd argue with people, and say things like "You can't fake a Razor's Edge or a Jackknife!". My mom would say things like "If the nWo isn't under WCW's employ, how are they making any money? And why wouldn't WCW just call the cops?". To which I'd say "Duh, mom, they have BILLIONAIRE Ted on their side. Plus, WCW knows that the nWo is all money, and all ratings. They don't want to lose that!"
How say you?
When my dad told me it was fake. I was 12.
ReplyDeleteI used to get into arguments with my step-dad over wrestling. I thought it was real until I was 15. That's when the news reported that the Iron Sheik and Hacksaw Jim Duggan were arrested together. That blew my mind and although I was still a fan, wrestling hasn't been the same for me since.
ReplyDeleteHappened when I was 8 or 9 or 10 (who knows) when it dawned on me that these guys weren't bruised up from punching each other all of the time.
ReplyDeleteWatching No Holds Barred didn't help, either. It messed with my brain. A part of me thought it was a documentary until my dad set me right.
When I got back into wrestling at 14, I was pretty sure ECW was real. I wasn't up to speed with blading and EXXXTREME. Plus, being in Colorado, ECW wasn't on TV around here so it was somewhat mythical for me.
My first big clue is during the Dibiase/Muraco match at Mania 4. One of them audibly calls an Irish whip and I continued myself that he was just taunting him by telling him the move beforehand. Then when Dr. Death and Rick Steiner were riding together and pulled those people out of the burning car that pretty much sealed it, along with the Hacksaw and Shirk incident. Plus my grandfather was always trying to prod me along.
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/o-6OdotH_4Q
ReplyDeleteI was about 7 or 8 years old when the Duggan-Shiek incident happened, and that started to make it sink in, although my family was constantly giving me the "You know it's fake, right?"
ReplyDeleteIt took me much longer to figure out that the Apter magazines were filled with made-up interviews and quotes. I think that might have crushed me more than realizing wrestling was scripted.
I had some idea when I was 11 around 1989 when a step-cousin's and his friend showed up at my house, and his friend was the Jobber who give Bad News Brown the gift of a rubber snake on Superstars, when he was feuding with Jake Roberts. He kinda alluded to it, and I put the pieces together and I did not really care if it was or not.
ReplyDeleteThe other part that kinda sealed it when he told me that Doom was Ron Simmons and Butch Reed when they first showed up on TV.
I went to a house show when I was 9 or 10 and saw punches not landing and blown spots sold like they really hurt......all the stuff that is covertly covered up by TV most of the time. Like most of these other comments, I had my suspicions that it was fake but that was the confirmation. I guess what kept me believing was it seemed so absurd that these guys would be dressing up as characters and play fighting. It seemed like the dumbest idea in the world.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that was pretty mind-numbingly stupid, considering Sheiky-baby busted Hacksaw open and they had some serious feud going.
ReplyDeleteThis one is a little sillier - I was watching Shaska Whatley in an NWA ring in the mid 80s, and he went to dropkick someone as they came off the ropes.
ReplyDeleteProblem was, the dropkick fell a good 6 inches short of the intended target, and the jobber sold it as if the force of the air Whatley kicked had the same intensity of a major hurricane. It was stupid, and to me, exposed the business.
I had my suspicions previously, but Tonight...In This Very Ring, was my first taste of reality, my world was turned upside down, UT was terrible and Angle was good??
ReplyDeleteHulk Hogan in WWF Magazine on No Holds Barred: "Yeah, during filmed I connected with a really good punch and accidentally broke Zeus' nose"
ReplyDeleteTwo months later:
Vince McMahon: "Zeus is invincible!!! The Hulksters punches having no effect!!"
I believe I was 26 and I was watching Mark Henry vs. Batista. Mark was standing on the apron and shoved Batista back with one hand, who took the worst-looking bump I have ever seen.
ReplyDeleteI have not been the same since. It's not real to me anymore, dammit.
I'll never forget the 92 Rumble. So many things in that match made me realize wrestling was fake. Shawn completely misses an enziguiri on Davey Boy, who does the flip sell. But the major one was Macho Man jumping out of the ring, over the top-rope. The officials let him back in, even though he had been eliminated, obviously in kay-fabe terms, but they let him back in because he was part of the finish. Not mention a 7 ft tall (who they proclaimed to be 8 FEET TALL!) in friggin' hairy body suit. That just killed it for me. It's still my favorite match of all-time, however. I was about 12.
ReplyDelete5th or 6th grade when my friend and I taped matches to break down the moves. When we saw how moves were not hitting but being "sold" (of course we didn't know that term) we were amazed at how real things looked. So we knew it was "fake" but didn't understand how things were booked, why people changed companies, etc.
ReplyDeleteEddie Ellner made me so mad!!!
ReplyDeleteEddie Ellner's columns in those magazines were always my favorites - probably because he was one of the few real people there. I was so pissed when he left and they replaced him, everything went downhill after he split.
ReplyDeleteMy parents told me when I was 8 or 9, but I didn't fully believe them, mainly because I didn't want to. Then I ended up in kind of a weird place where I guess I knew it was fake, but remained in denial. I was finally brought to accept the fact after seeing Earthquake and Ronnie Garvin put in the same match for a USA special that I'd just seen at a house show--move for move, spot for spot.
ReplyDeleteIt was hard to lie to myself after that, but I would still get lost in the moment all the time. I cried after Flair win the belt back from Sting (after the Black Scorpion debacle) because I was so upset with the injustice of the ref not seeing Sting's foot on the ropes. I get mad at bad booking now, but back then I could know it was all pretense, yet still be upset at the conspiration of events.
Yeah, no one ever gave me shit for it either in my family. My mom would make a few comments here and there, but never flat-out give me shit.
ReplyDeleteI knew it was predetermined at that age, matter of fact I remember having to stop my mom from telling my younger brother that it was on the night that Stone Cold beat the hell out of Bret in the ambulance. I meant more about how my eyes opened up to the entire other world of wrestling, and when I became the kind of fans we are now, as opposed to when you're a kid, or a casual fan as an adult.
ReplyDeleteThe 20/20 expose did it for me. Think I was 8 or 9. Then, I went through a weird phase where I thought the NWA was still real vs te fake cartoony WWF around 86-87. Those damn horsemen. Finally, at about 12, it was too obvious.
ReplyDeleteI do ask this, as kids of the 80s and no Internet, it took longer to smarten up and even if you knew it was fake, you still didn't have access to things like the Internet and kayfabe was alive and well.
The 20/20 expose did it for me. Think I was 8 or 9. Then, I went through a weird phase where I thought the NWA was still real vs te fake cartoony WWF around 86-87. Those damn horsemen. Finally, at about 12, it was too obvious.
ReplyDeleteI do ask this, as kids of the 80s and no Internet, it took longer to smarten up and even if you knew it was fake, you still didn't have access to things like the Internet and kayfabe was alive and well.
The 20/20 expose did it for me. Think I was 8 or 9. Then, I went through a weird phase where I thought the NWA was still real vs te fake cartoony WWF around 86-87. Those damn horsemen. Finally, at about 12, it was too obvious.
ReplyDeleteI do ask this, as kids of the 80s and no Internet, it took longer to smarten up and even if you knew it was fake, you still didn't have access to things like the Internet and kayfabe was alive and well.
I always thought they could have saved it by saying they were hatching an evil scheme together, and just appeared to hate one another.
ReplyDeleteThe 20/20 expose did it for me. Think I was 8 or 9. Then, I went through a weird phase where I thought the NWA was still real vs te fake cartoony WWF around 86-87. Those damn horsemen. Finally, at about 12, it was too obvious.
ReplyDeleteI do ask this, as kids of the 80s and no Internet, it took longer to smarten up and even if you knew it was fake, you still didn't have access to things like the Internet and kayfabe was alive and well.
I always thought they could have saved it by saying they were hatching an evil scheme together, and just appeared to hate one another.
ReplyDeleteThe 20/20 expose did it for me. Think I was 8 or 9. Then, I went through a weird phase where I thought the NWA was still real vs te fake cartoony WWF around 86-87. Those damn horsemen. Finally, at about 12, it was too obvious.
ReplyDeleteI do ask this, as kids of the 80s and no Internet, it took longer to smarten up and even if you knew it was fake, you still didn't have access to things like the Internet and kayfabe was alive and well.
I always thought they could have saved it by saying they were hatching an evil scheme together, and just appeared to hate one another.
ReplyDeleteThe 20/20 expose did it for me. Think I was 8 or 9. Then, I went through a weird phase where I thought the NWA was still real vs te fake cartoony WWF around 86-87. Those damn horsemen. Finally, at about 12, it was too obvious.
ReplyDeleteI do ask this, as kids of the 80s and no Internet, it took longer to smarten up and even if you knew it was fake, you still didn't have access to things like the Internet and kayfabe was alive and well.
I always thought they could have saved it by saying they were hatching an evil scheme together, and just appeared to hate one another.
ReplyDeleteThe 20/20 expose did it for me. Think I was 8 or 9. Then, I went through a weird phase where I thought the NWA was still real vs te fake cartoony WWF around 86-87. Those damn horsemen. Finally, at about 12, it was too obvious.
ReplyDeleteI do ask this, as kids of the 80s and no Internet, it took longer to smarten up and even if you knew it was fake, you still didn't have access to things like the Internet and kayfabe was alive and well.
I always thought they could have saved it by saying they were hatching an evil scheme together, and just appeared to hate one another.
ReplyDeleteI can't recall specifically so I'll go by Wrestlemanias. I'm pretty sure I thought it was still real at Wrestlemania 10. I remember being concerned Owen could sneak out of the cage at Summerslam and win the title, so it was still real to me then, dammit. I think I still thought it was real at Wrestlemania 11 but not at Wrestlemania 12, can't recall if anything specific caused it. I got the internet sometime in 1996 and wasn't blown away to find out it wasn't real so I must have known by then.
ReplyDeleteI've seen highlights of that bump but never the full match. Where was it from?
ReplyDeleteshould have sent the tape to Titan Headquarters.
ReplyDeleteFor me it was the Papa Shango voodoo garbage that did it.
ReplyDeleteAlways knew it was fake, still watched.
ReplyDeleteHis replacement Brandi Mankiewicz was a real person but didn't actually write the column as she was actually a clerk or something and Apter used her name as an in joke.
ReplyDeleteActually no, I'm wrong. I remember still thinking it was real when I was 11.
ReplyDeleteDid anyone else keep insisting it was real even when you knew it was fake? Took a little longer to admit it to friends/family after I found out
ReplyDeleteWHAT IS THIS "FAKE" AND "SCRIPTED" STUFF YOU ALL ARE SAYING?!?!
ReplyDeleteHOW DO YOU LEARN TO FALL OFF A 20 FT LADDER??!
I saw Shawn and Nash pull up to a McDonald's in Detroit in the same car, along with Scott Hall and 123 Kid, right around the time those teams were feuding.
ReplyDeletePretty much the first time I saw The Undertaker his first years in the company when I started watching as a little kid. Didn't make it any less fun or awesome.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I remember as a kid really thinking Diesel and Shawn Michaels hated each other. I guess I smartened up not long after that.
ReplyDeleteNot to seem anal, but I think that was the 93 Rumble.
ReplyDeleteUnlike most posters here, it seems, I'm actually old enough to remember that announcement Vince made admitting that everything was pre-determined in order to avoid athletic commission involvement or something--I don't remember the exact year, but I'm thinking I was around 9 or 10. I probably just lied to myself for some years afterward, as just before taking me to a house show with a Hogan vs. Savage main event I remember my dad telling me that they really didn't hate each other with the fire of a thousand suns, and I refused to believe it.
ReplyDeleteIm not sure I ever was 100% a beleiver, but the moment when I really starting thinking backstage wise was when Flair vs Perfect loser leaves town match. I knew that there was a feud brewing with Perfect and Luger and they didnt just bring in a guy to feud with somebody that was leaving so that meant that Flair must be losing.
ReplyDeleteProbably when I heard that "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan and the Iron Sheik had been arrested WHILE DRIVING IN THE SAME CAR for cocaine/drugs. The arrest meant nothing to young me at the time - but I was more concerned with "why are these two supposed mortal enemies traveling together in a car?"
ReplyDeleteFor me, it was the WM IV tournament, when every match result worked out just right so that every match was a face vs heel. About halfway through, I started predicting every mat h result, to the horror of my little brother.
ReplyDeleteI once had a "live show report" (of a match I saw on TV, which no one seemed to care about) printed of a match between Doink and Kamala when I was about 7 years old. For some reason Apter didn't question me sending him an article written in purple marker on construction paper. I wish I still had that issue, I should've saved it. Come to think of it, that means I've been a published wrestling writer for more than 20 years now.
ReplyDeleteI always hear the stories of people who had someone tell them it was fake from an early age and it always makes me laugh, because I was a little smart ass know it all who was convinced they were wrong. I dunno what age I was where I was in that in between zone, where I intellectually knew it was fake but could suspend that while watching and pretend it was real; probably about 9 or 10. Then from there I went straight into when I started becoming a smart mark, when I was about 13. But there was definitely a time where I thought that a guy like Undertaker could be legitimately undead and still wrestling.
ReplyDeleteWatching a live show, seeing a dropkick miss by about a foot and the guy still sell like death. I was 6. I asked mum (who took me) about it and she said it was fake but fun. Now, having done it myself, I dispute the "fake" bit, but fun, definitely.
ReplyDeleteI saw Roddy Piper talking about that on Good Morning America.
ReplyDeleteI knew that pro wrestling was not a legit athletic competition long before that, but still, hearing Vince admit that was like the President of the United States releasing a proclamation that Santa Claus is nothing but an elaborate deception.
I was backstage in the lockerroom at a WWF houseshow in which had to have been 94-95 as Bret/Owen was the main event, and I remember seeing HBK chatting up and laughing with I want to say Bam Bam, who was a heel. It stuck me as strange because why would a good guy and bad guy be bullshiting and laughing with each other. But it didnt really connect in my head
ReplyDeleteId say though that sometime during the monday night wars in 97-98 my dad smartened me up some what. My friend and I were in my bed room up stairs legit wrestling each other and my dad came upstairs pissed off and went on a "wrestling is fake" tirade since we were making so much noise.
Then the internet truly smartened me up soon after
This one?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfzvWEJEM94
This segment always pissed me off for reason, maybe it was the "wacky zany" bullshit he was spitting out
Lol "why doesnt he just stop running when the guy throws him into the ropes?"
ReplyDeleteI always knew to an extent; from the time I started watching there'd always be someone around to remind you that "WWF was Fake." It was a lot of fun to watch, though, so I'd just smile and nod and keep watching. Whether or not it was fake really had not bearing on my enjoyment of it.
ReplyDeleteThat said, there were two things that stand out as suspending my disbelief. One was the 1994 Royal Rumble. Need I say more? I could tell that the Undertaker's disappearance and ascension was done with special effects and wires like a movie, so knowing that wasn't real made it harder to see anything in wrestling as real.
The other was Making A Difference Fatu. Changing my perception of what was real and fake in wrestling may have been the only difference he ever made. Here was this savage who used to wrestle barefoot and eat raw fish and chicken, and now suddenly he'd been raised in the 'hood and spoke perfect English. Although I'd always known it to an extent, that was the point where I fully realized that not only were the matches themselves fake and predetermined, but the gimmicks were an act as well.
"Santa Claus is nothing but an elaborate deception."
ReplyDeleteOMMFG, STOP DESTROYIN MY WORLD ALREADY
I have no clue what the dude that posted the question is getting at, but i will say that i always thought it was cool how at survivor series 1990 each team at the end was made up of guys who got along with each other but not with the guys on the other team. i woulda thought it'd end up sorta like the weird pairings you'd eventually get in wcw battlebowl stuff. but maybe jack tunney really knew the wrestlers so he knew who'd get alng and who wouldnt
ReplyDeleteNo, it was LONG before that. Late 80's I believe.
ReplyDeleteFor me it was the Pillman-Sullivan "bookerman" incident--which im sure did not have the desired effect. We had somehow gotten ahold of a dirt sheet that mentioned how the booker worked. We were on the fence whether to belive it...then we watched Pillman call him the bookerman and everything clicked.
ReplyDeleteI'm not trying to make fun of anyone,but how in the hell can someone be 12 or 14 and not know WWF is fake? Seriously? 14?
ReplyDeleteOne true thing I had a hard time believing was blading. Some kid at school told me about it but he was one of those "Ultimate Warrior is the original Ultimate Warrior brother" types so I was like whatev. Especially when all common sense tells you it would be fake blood capsules. Well anyway,one day out of the blue I got a complimentary copy of wither Observer or torch in the mail with a glossary and FAQ attached,and I'll be damned,they do blade! That dirtsheet FAQ was the first time I really "smartened up",this would have been "95? because they were talking about Shawn winning the title. When he won,I knew the sheet guys knew what they were talking about.
That being said,I knew wrestling was fake when I was like 5 or 6,allthough obviously I didn't know what a "spot" or a "booker" were. It's hard to look at a wrestling match and think it's a legit contest.
I'm trying to think of the exact moment, but it never seemed right to me that out of all the guys on the Intrepid, Luger was the only one who could slam Yokozuna? I'd have thought Crush would have gotten the job done too.
ReplyDeleteMan, I remember that moment fondly. I used to go to the store every week - I think it was on Tuesdays - when the new TV Guide would come out.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I'd search through the packs of cards to see if a David Robinson rookie card was peaking through the front of a Hoops pack. After that, I'd check the TV Guide to see if Saturday Night's Main Event was going to be on that weekend. (Admittedly, the timing might be off in my mind by a year or so on that David Robinson reference)
In one issue of TV Guide, I believe it was a Cheers/Jeers sort of thing, they gave a thumbs down to Hulk Hogan after an Arsenio appearance, talking about how he rambled on and essentially admitted the WWF was fake.
I was crushed. My mom, who has always been puzzled by my fascination with this shit anyway, came up big and said something along the lines of, "It's OK, if you like to watch it, who cares what Hulk Hogan said?"
Now an adult who will likely be traveling to LA to watch Summerslam this August - where my last real wrestling fan friend fortunately resides - I can't help but think my mom should have just said, "Yup, it's fake, move on."
This is gimmick infringement. Caps Lock Man, where art thou?
ReplyDelete"Anal"
ReplyDeleteWhy were you backstage so many times?
ReplyDeleteOh shit. Brandi Mankiewicz. I haven't read that name in years. I use to love PWI when I was 16-17. Pretty surprising to find what a load of bullshit it all was.
ReplyDeleteI think I always knew, because my parents wouldn't let me forget. Parts of it confused me ("why would Macho Man VOLUNTARILY lose to the Ultimate Warrior if his career was ending?"), but it was pretty constant with the "wrestling is so PHONY" stuff. It's pretty obvious, too- I laugh at old-school guys who blame the lack of kayfabe for the downturn in business- like you could still pretend that WWE was real in a world with actual martial arts on TV?
ReplyDeleteIt's actually a mix, the first two are from the 92 Rumble but the third is from the 93 Rumble.
ReplyDeleteMy uncle is a wrestler
ReplyDeleteWell now don't leave us in suspense....
ReplyDelete