Hey Scott!
In your Wrestlemania 26 rant regarding the Michaels/Taker match, you said:
"If this was Shawn's last match (which it's not), he went out with
another Wrestlemania classic."
Over three years have passed, and although he's injected himself in
several matches since, he has not actually WRESTLED (err...SPORTS
ENTERTAINED?) another match. It seems that WWE has plenty of ways to
trot out Michaels whenever it is necessary without having him
technically wrestle in a match, and that seems to be satisfying enough
to both parties.
So are you finally willing to say that Wrestlemania 26 was, indeed,
Shawn Michaels' final match?
Nope, he'll be back. There'll be a match big enough and enough money dumped on him for one more match at some Wrestlemania. He's still healthy and marketable and Vince is Vince, so unless his spine was fused again or something like that, I guarantee he'll wrestle again.
Thank Christ. Shawn's my all-time favorite, and I just hated those last 2 matches with Undertaker for reasons I still don't understand.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, I think if there's one guy I believe will stay retired and end on the note he did, it's HBK. He gives off an impression that he's quite content with his life outside of the ring and does the guest spots to feed the jones without actually having to compete.
ReplyDeleteNow with that said, someone throw him and Rocky a shitton of money and make that fucking happen.
Give me The Rock vs. Shawn Michaels. That's all I fucking want anymore.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand you either =)
ReplyDeleteMy God, that's wrong on so many levels.
ReplyDeleteI have no desire to The Rock ever wrestle again.
ReplyDeleteThe only person I'd want to see Shawn Michaels fight is Brock Lesnar. The ultimate ass kicker vs the ultimate at projecting his ass being kicked.
Shawn Michaels is the limiting factor. It seems like he legitimately has enough money to do whatever he wants for himself and his family, and he's making still more with his WWE appearances and other side projects.
ReplyDeleteWhat could possibly motivate him to get himself back into wrestling shape for one more match of any type?
Yeah...I'm done with the Rock after this last run. To me, Punk exposed him as being an artifact of a time since past, and his roided up ring work made me sad.
ReplyDeleteOnce you have money, you always want more. Or something.
ReplyDeleteBut I agree with you - every day/year that he doesn't wrestle means it's less and less likely that he'll actually come back. Plus, he saw this second run as a gift from God (supposedly) so he may have a better since of closure than some others. Maybe.
If they can ever coax one WWE match out of Sting, since he almost has to go into the WWE Hall of Fame at some point for his WCW history, it should be against Shawn... Icon vs. Icon.
ReplyDeleteI could see HBK vs. Rock happening
ReplyDeleteAgreed. That should have happened in 2003 for sure. Or maybe even at WM20, with the Evolution vs. Rock'n' Sock stuff playing out previously?
ReplyDeleteShawn's your favorite, but you didn't like two of his greatest matches?
ReplyDeleteIsn't that on Punk then, for not being able to adapt? Cena and Rock had a great match at 28, and yeah, he definitely was a lot slower on his feet but outside of Rock/Punk I, I enjoyed his comeback matches for the most part. Cena/Rock II was a finisher spam but it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
ReplyDeleteI've read they had a plan for Rock vs. Shawn at WM21 but Johnny Ace's incompetence led to Rock's contract expiring without even a courtesy call. That's one of the big reasons Rock and WWE had some dissension for a long time, Rock didn't know his contract had expired until his agent called him up congratulating him on finishing his wrestling career. Plus, Rock and Shawn hadn't buried the hatchet yet from when Shawn tried to bury him when he was first getting hot. So we got Shawn/Angle instead, which is a fine substitute if you ask me, but damn I want Rock/Shawn.
ReplyDeleteYour argument might have merit if Cena got a good match out of him at Wrestlemania 29, but he couldn't do so either. And Punk was also hampered by Rock needing protection to get his ass to Wrestlemania. What happens if Rock needed hernia surgery after No Way Out?
ReplyDeleteWrestlemania 28 Rock was light years better than Wrestlemania 29 Rock.
Your argument might have merit if Cena got a good match out of him at Wrestlemania 29, but he couldn't do so either. And Punk was also hampered by Rock needing protection to get his ass to Wrestlemania. What happens if Rock needed hernia surgery after No Way Out?
ReplyDeleteWrestlemania 28 Rock was light years better than Wrestlemania 29 Rock...
It's literally completely inexplicable to me. The best thing I can come up with is it just seemed like a total finisher-swap-fest (versus something like their 1997 Hell in a Cell match). I wouldn't even put those two matches in Shawn's top 20.
ReplyDeleteWrestlemania 29 suffered because fucking nobody wanted to see it, seriously, the heat was so odd for that match, but WWE felt obligated to do it so Cena could get his back. Not to mention Rock getting injured midway through severely limited what they could do.
ReplyDeletePunk vs. Rock at Rumble was a fine match. It wasn't a 5 star OMFG match, but it was pretty good. I think Rock can't wrestle 1 or 2 matches a year, but if he came back on a regular basis and got his wrestling legs under him (and dropped some of the unnecessary bulky muscle), he could still go. Like you though, his time has passed imo and it's time for everyone to move on.
ReplyDeleteDid Shawn ever wrestle Punk one on one? That's about the only match I would want to see Shawn in at this point. I would have loved to see a HBK/Rock match in 2003 or so, but not now. Nor do I want to see Austin wrestle anyone. His last match was over a DECADE ago. Let it go.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Flair going back on his big emotional retirement match for some sad international matches with Hogan and a dubious TNA run has had an effect on HBK being more inclined to stay out of the ring lest he be like Flair and continue when he already had the ideal exit.
ReplyDelete(Just realized that Flair/Sting finished the first Clash of the Champons, the first Nitro, the last Nitro, and to date has been Ric's last match. Huh.)
Be careful what you wish for. If Michaels comes back for anything, it'll be as HHH's retirement match opponent. So there's a) only a 50-50 chance at a good match given those two's prior history against each other and b) a 100% chance of Michaels doing the job due to his insecure buddy's ego.
ReplyDeleteNobody's given a shit about Sting since 1998.
ReplyDeleteI doubt it. They've wrestled each other so many times that nobody wants to see it any more.
ReplyDeleteHe'd be a fool to come back full time. The guy earns ten times for one film what he'd earn in a year of full time wrestling.
ReplyDelete1 million people did. Six hundred thousand more than Punk's best PPV buyrate.
ReplyDeletePeople also pay to see the streak match, which Punk was involved in.
ReplyDeleteI doubt that, given the atrocious build.
ReplyDeleteWhich has always stopped the WWE in the past.
ReplyDeleteDo we have a date on Sting's last like, four star match?
ReplyDeleteIn the Austin podcast he pretty much alluded to the fact that he's not really finished. It's a neat interview about Austin and Shawn's heat.
ReplyDeleteIt would stop Shawn, though. He's not getting back in the ring for a match he's wrestled dozens of times.
ReplyDeleteAt this point, I can see him coming back for Punk or Bryan. If he's the perfectionist he's made out to be, I think he wouldn't touch The Rock with a ten foot pole.
Rock doesn't.
ReplyDeleteRock doesn't want to work with HBK because he was a cock to him when he first started
ReplyDeletei heard shawn also dicked over mama rock or something back in the territory days
ReplyDeleteI have no interest whatsoever in seeing Shawn wrestle again and would lose considerable respect for him if he ever did. Its bad enough that they constantly have to shoehorn him into every HHH angle these days.
ReplyDeleteHe has nothing left to prove, he dosen't need the money, he certainly dosen't need the in-ring punishment at this stage of his life. He genuinely seems to have found peace in retirement. Why mess that up?
I maintain that he stuck around at least two years longer than was warranted anyway, towards the end he was just another aging part-timer taking up a spot that could have been used to elevate a young and promising talent.
Time is finally flushing the old boys out of the system, and there is, on paper at least, a heck of a talent roster there to step up. No need to mess with that.
Was that really 3 years ago? Son of a bitch...
ReplyDeleteHard to adapt when you have to do the match assbackwards. A Rock/Punk match should have Punk bumping like a nut for Rock's offense and then cheating his way into the advantage. Instead Punk controlled the match and it spent forever on the mat. The second match was better but wasn't anything spectacular.
ReplyDeletereally?
ReplyDeleteto each their own but damn man, you have no soul.
drop about 40-50lbs and we could talk.
ReplyDeleteoh... and ditch the antiquated promo work... it doesnt work for me.
im thinking if it wasnt any movie deals.
ReplyDeletevs DDP sometime in 98-99.
ReplyDeleteA couple weeks ago against Aries.
ReplyDeleteVince is Vince, but Shawn is Shawn. He seems like he gives zero fucks about wrestling another match. But if he does...HBK vs Bryan or GTFO
ReplyDeletei agree with everything but that 3rd paragraph.
ReplyDeleteHe was never clogging a spot. HBK matches toward the end were nothing but put over young talent on RAW and against other legends. 08 was his last real title feud
i dont consider anything TNA Sting to be "good" but its AA, so ill check for it.
ReplyDeleteIt was shocking. It was a legit great match. It put to rest any doubts I had about Aries being a great wrestler.
ReplyDeletethats the one thing i do like bout him. he can work and its not spot spot spot... he uses psych.
ReplyDeletehe is just as tall as that game of thrones midget... and very fucked up to hemme.
I think this is the match I'm talking about:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=686q5PTnWCQ
Yeah, if he was the size he was in 03/04 he would be infinitely better. Now he's blown up (literally and figuratively) bigger than probably anyone on the roster. I mean Cena's pretty blown up and they had to do camera tricks to not make Cena look tiny compared to him.
ReplyDeleteIf they did a HBK/Rock match now it would be horrible. Probably 80 pounds (or more) between the two of the them and the guy that should be bumping would have to work him on the mat because anything else would look stupid.
I'm with Fuj here. If he was title hunting, then I'd agree, but his run was just about getting a guy to step in the ropes with him and then just churn out one four-star after another. I don't think I had a "God, HBK needs to go away" reaction the way I do for a HHH circa 2002-03, 2011-present or Cena. That year-long feud with Jericho was 50 shades of awesome.
ReplyDeleteim watching this match and im loving it...
ReplyDeleteWHY THE FUCK DID THEY FIRE TODD WHATS HIS FACE?
he is good. Nice straight man. knows the moves, provides insight...
fire tenay.
It still surprises me that Shawn didn't stick around long enough to feud with Bryan at least.
ReplyDeleteNo idea. I liked him too. Todd and Borash should be the team. Tenay and Taz and terrible.
ReplyDeleteAnd seriously, this match is the most sneaky great match of all time.
ill definitely agree and give this match **** as a TV main event but theres a few mitigating factors:
ReplyDelete-its in chicago ROH second/third home
-chicago was WCWs second biggest market
-its Aries basically as Flair.
-theres like 3-4 comedy spots (cant go wrong there. esp the scorpion spot)
-the crowd is already "there" as far as being emotionally invested, so its really a night off for both guys.
-and its non-conclusive, so it doesnt hurt Aries.
but with saying all that, its a great match.
you might not be able to book logically, but you definitely have an eye for a good match.
You know what I'd book? More old school tv main events like that and less Aces and Eights nonsense.
ReplyDeleteYou're thinking of the Nitro where Sting beat him for the title, yes?
ReplyDeleteyessir.
ReplyDeletebut they have had another tv match in early 98 when was champ.
had to be after SuperBrawl 8 but before Spring Stampede 98. Tommy Hall where you at on the Nitros?
"Churn out one four-star after another"
ReplyDeleteAn HBK match after around 2006 was, with some exceptions (Jericho, Taker) , basically the wrestling equivalent of a Big Mac and fries for me.
To wit: it was the same recipe every time, nice enough and certainly not something I was adverse too, but little real body and forgotten almost as soon as it was finished.
Everybody's heard this rumour and I don't buy it.
ReplyDeleteRock never said 'no' when he was told to lay down for somebody.
It's been over fifteen years.
Even Bret buried the hatchet with Shawn.
I know...the Wrestlemania feud with Triple H felt more like five years...
ReplyDeleteI still want the HBK heel run I didn't get during his redemption run with WWE. The heel scenario is so awful in WWE, and HBK is one of the top 2 or 3 bad guys in company history. Even a little 6 month run would be fantastic. I'm not a fan of the come back for one big match and leave formula.
ReplyDeletequick question:
ReplyDeleteAre you a Bret Hart guy?
Lose respect? I don't get it. Retiring to me = not on the active roster, not never wrestling again. Even if he said he wouldn't do another match, a guy can't change his mind without the loss of respect? It's just odd to me.
ReplyDeleteShawn vs Bryan, Shawn vs Lesnar, Shawn vs CM Punk, Shawn vs Rock, Shawn vs Ryback?
ReplyDeleteIt is really good but Sting wrestling in a t shirt just looks lame. Not sure why it bothers me so much
ReplyDeleteExactly.
ReplyDeleteThis is WRESTLING. Aside from a debilitating injury, there is no true retirement because there's no real COMPETITION.
Shawn has called it a career, in the sense that he's done with full-time touring or working a certain amount of dates a year. Shawn personally considers WrestleMania 25 his only "perfect" match, so he probably decided to go out on top with a rematch.
I tend to agree, but who's the money match? Punk? Brock? Rock? I don't see a perfect opponent except maybe if its HHHs "retirement" match
ReplyDeleteTrips will be a part-timer until he's physically unable, so he won't wrestle Shawn again.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of a heel Punk, the straightedge atheist, taunting born again former addict and asshole HBK out of retirement.
They buried the hatchet a couple of years ago.
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree about HHH never truley retireing since WWE will always have a ready made angle with COO HHH vs "random antiauthority wrestler X."
ReplyDeleteI LOVE your suggestion about Punk, something just tells me Vince won't ever see Punk as a top top top level guy so would look elsewhere for HBKs comeback match. If I had to bet my house on it, Id bet he would go Lesnar for it.
Agreed. Makes him look lazy and uninterested. That's why.
ReplyDeleteWhatever he comes back for, I really hope it's NOT for something with HHH again.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. He never took a title run, hardly main-evented, and put over everyone he feuded with at some point
ReplyDeleteHBK V Bryan, punk, styles, Brock, Aries. I know most of these will never happen but the two I want to see most is Bryan and Brock.
ReplyDeleteThe Christian hunter vs. the vegetarian atheist? The promos would write themselves.
ReplyDeleteIt probably helped that he was still the best worker and the most over guy in the company. Seriously what the heck are you talking about?
ReplyDeleteHe put over people in his second run. (Jericho, Edge, Orton, Angle) and made Shelton Benjamin look like a million bucks.
ReplyDeleteHHH ain't retiring. he's the Anti-Terry Funk.
ReplyDeleteI kinda wanna throw up reading these comments.You all get in this mindset that young guy needs to beat older guy because that's the thing I read when if you freaking remember when it actually occurred HBK was still the best in the company. He should have won the belt again in 03 07 08 and 10
ReplyDeleteAustin podcast?
ReplyDeleteThe "How do you DO this crap?!?!?!" spot was funny as fuck.
ReplyDeleteYou're not very good at being a wrestling fan.
ReplyDeleteI disagree I really think Shawn is done, he seems to have thrown all his effort into his hunting hobby. I'd actually be massively disappointed if he did return though as he left in the perfect manner.
ReplyDeleteShawn vs Hogan II
ReplyDeleteI was saying the same thing until I saw Rock's last 3 matches. I could really do without seeing him ever wrestle again.
ReplyDeleteI would hardly call the 28 match "great". ***1/2 at most, I'd say.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Cena also have food poisoning or something too? At any rate, that incredibly boring HHH/Lesnar match that proceeded it sure didn't help the heat for the main either.
ReplyDeleteIf they're serious about Ziggler, I think he would be an ideal foil for Shawn. While he wrestles a lot like Perfect, his Showoff character is reminiscent of the initial post-Rockers incarnation of HBK. Ziggler has all the tools but he still needs an angle to push him to the top and starting the feud which pulls Michaels out of retirement could do the trick. This one would bill itself: The Show-Off vs. The Show-Stopper. Plus, if they ever wanted to transition Ziggler to a Super-Kick finisher, this would be the way to do it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Shawn could handpick Bryan as his warm-up opponent so that we could get that match as well. (though it would take some creative booking, since Shawn would need to go over, but Bryan would need the rub--this would be a good usage of the time-limit draw finish)
I have a feeling that Shawn's gonna wrestle HHH at WM30. Just a hunch.
ReplyDeleteI could see him coming back if he's offered an amount of money a man with a family can't responsibly turn down - although as a WWE Legend he'll always have some sort of income coming in from wrestling alone.
ReplyDeleteBut I think he's done. Since he came back he was adamant that wrestling wasn't going to be his life again. He was willing to work so often and that was that - he didn't want the title, he didn't want to go on the road, he took months off at a time every year, he wouldn't move to Smackdown because it was interfere with church - he'd wrestle but he wasn't putting himself out for it. He seems happy and content away from the ring. How old are his kids? If he sticks with the two I could see him getting more involved when they get older (although he would also be older) but for now I think he's done - he's stubborn and sticks to his guns, and already let Vince talk him into staying a couple of times - he wanted to retire after WM25, for example. He went out against the opponent he respected the most, in the main event of a show where he shined every year, and left to enjoy the life his career allows him to live with his family - there doesn't seem to be anything for him to come back for.
He cant wrestle with his hunting hat on so, yea he's done.
ReplyDeleteAll seriousness though, I think he likes that he was able to actually retire in his retirement match, and not pull a Flair
Funny when you think about it cause he was in a SHIT-TON of title matches in the second part of his career.
ReplyDeleteLike they really couldent hot-shot the title to him for a month or two? Did Cena and HHH really need to go over him every single time?
I disagree. I think he really is done. He's not getting any younger, and doesn't appear to be getting any thinner either. Seems he's enjoying the dinner that retirement is bringing him. And he's not a guy who's too concerned with money anymore either. He's got plenty, plus a successful outside venture with his hunting show. And finally, he's a guy who wouldn't go out there unless he was capable of stealing the show. And as the years go by, his ability to be that good is going to fade. He went out with an OUTSTANDING match against Undertaker, and a great storyline exit to boot. It was pretty much the perfect retirement.
ReplyDeleteI can't see him tarnishing all that and coming back again. I really think we've seen his final match.
ohb yeah i forgot about.
ReplyDeletearies is the (greatest) man (that ever lived)
hey rememeber when they had mr kennellyyyyyyyyyyyyyy/jb for the 1st hour then taz/tenay for the 2nd.
ReplyDeleteand they had that awkward shot where the 1st hr peeps were just standing behind the 2nd hr for a moment kinda hanging out for a moment
Huh, I never heard about that. Just that Rock never liked him
ReplyDeleteBret's book talked about how HBK was a dick to The Rock, and I'm pretty sure Melzer has mentioned it too
ReplyDeleteThat's the point I came to make. People don't consider the day to day reality of being a wrestler; to them it's just "he doesn't get in the ring again." But even if Shawn did a one-off, special occasion match in a few years, he'd still be "retired". Meaning he wouldn't be traveling every week, having responsibilities to the company, answering to people, and whatever else it entails.
ReplyDeleteDidn't he say he didn't want the belt?
ReplyDeletef*** them. who cares about "casuals"?
ReplyDeleteI think that might be the one thing where Rock was really "exposed": his catchphrase promos that came off so weak compared to actual talking.
ReplyDelete(and I guess the most disappointing thing about this is: that we know that Rock is capable of "talking". but the WWE and him felt they needed to go for some "cheap pops" instead).
wasn't a story floating around about Michaels being very disappointed in Flair selling the watch that HBK gave him as "retirement present"?
ReplyDeleteCena!
ReplyDeleteI don't get how it being in Chicago is a "mitigating factor"!?
ReplyDeleteThen he would have done so already, because he is worth less every year he's away.
ReplyDeleteHow many matches has he really had though? The tag match was fine, but it's a tag match so it's easier to hide his cardio limits. The second match with Cena wasn't that great and his two matches with Punk were meh. So one good singles match out of four? I don't think that's Punk's fault. Plus, in my opinion, Punk killed him on the mic.
ReplyDeleteWWE could have run Drew McIntyre vs Yoshi Tatsu for the WWE title and still drawn a million. NEXT year, however...
ReplyDeleteWhy, yes I am! What tipped you off??!
ReplyDeleteSo if you don't yank it to everything HBK does you're not really a fan? OK, gotcha.
ReplyDeleteI love this argument. Lesnar vs Angle, for the first time (in an actual match) drew less than 600k. In a better business period. Wrestle mania doesn't draw as a guarantee.
ReplyDeleteI like how people still get butt hurt that CM Punk's only mega hit as a PPV was against The Rock, and even then drew less than half what a "disappointing" Wrestlemania rematch between Rock and Cena drew.
ReplyDeletePunk is the best wrestler and talker of the 3. And in ring wise, he's sure to be a HOF? But he is not, and will never be, a draw.
Steve Austin does a Podcast, and in the second episode he interviewed HBK and HBK said something like "Well ya know, I'm doing what I'm doing now but ya never know what could happen down the road and stuff, you never really retire in wrestlin' ya know" or something like that.
ReplyDeleteThey took that match off youtube. It's one of my favorite 'shoot' moments.
ReplyDeleteNope he's 100% done and one of the few who I truly feel is being sincere when he says that (which is odd considering the way he use to be). Religion/family really changed the guy. He has plenty of money, and what he doesn't have he makes up with having a great family life it seems. Pus as others said he doesn't want to pull a Flair.
ReplyDelete