Scott, your expertise is needed! Was listening to some Keller stuff at the gym and he stated that HBK vs Stone Cold from WM 14 is the most historically significant match of all time. Reason? It catapulted business into a new stratosphere while also marking the beginning of the apex of the white hot Stone Cold era. I have a hard time accepting this opinion since it headlined a mediocre WM, wasn't a classic match (I know everyone was injured), and just isn't talked about that often.
What's your pick for the most historically significant match? Hogan/Andre, Austin/Rock, Montreal 97, Rock/Cena 1? I know "historically significant" can be interpreted in many ways...was just curious about your and the blogs opinion. Thanks
. Hulk Hogan defeats Iron Sheik, rules the world for the next 20 years.
2. Bret Hart screwed out of World title in Montreal, punches owner in face.
3. Everything else.
Yeah, I don't agree with Keller either.
ReplyDeleteHogan/Sheik is easily the most significant match ever, given the degree to which it changed things in the direction and popularity of the business.
Hogan/Andre was an apex of a particular style of wrestling and the popularity of mainstream wrestling and Austin/HBK sealed the deal on Austin -- but in both of those cases I think those things were happening anyways, as long as you just made the matchup and did it. Austin was going up no matter what, were Hogan more or less came out of nowhere and translated his AWA schtick on a national level and re-launched wrestling as mainstream entertainment overnight. Wrestling was already in the mainstream conciouness for Hogan/Andre and Austin/HBK.
I think even though the returns came later, the BATB 1996 match should be considered too -- the WWF was struggling in the years leading up to Austin/HBK, but they were always still a household name. WCW came out of relative obscurity, and toppled the WWFs numbers. Even though they never really supassed anything the WWF did at their peak in terms of numbers, they had a lot steeper of a climb than the WWF in 1997/1998.
IMO Mania 14 was actually pretty good and not at all mediocre. But it is correct that the Shawn/Austin match did NOT launch WWF/E into the stratosphere. It was the aftermath with Austin and Vince.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of historic matches, the six-man tag at '96 Bash at the Beach was 17 years ago today. Certainly not at the top spot, but pretty high up there nonetheless.
ReplyDeleteMelina v. Alicia Fox. Inspired punchlines for years while still holding up as the greatest match of all-time.
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting Scott. It's an interesting talking point because its 100% subjective. In addition to what I mentioned, the case was made that HBK/SC headlined the show that helped change the direction of the Monday night wars and indirectly the fate of WCW.
ReplyDeleteI think its gotta be Montreal 97 tho. It inadvertently signaled the death of the status quo WWF stuff and marked the beginning of the edgier product. Also gave us the birth of the Mr McMahon character that would grace/haunt the WWF product till today.
Unless you are going to go back and find the first time a promoter paid a wrestler to lose so they could make big money on the rematch, you gotta go with Hogan/Sheik.
ReplyDeleteI think it might be.
ReplyDeleteThat match and that angle changed the entire business forever and everything after (Sting, DX, Attitude Era, Montreal) was attributed to it.
Nacho Man vs The Huckster at WMXII. Three men died in the match for Gods sake.
ReplyDeleteJackie Gayda would disagree with you.
ReplyDeleteI agree. There's no blow away matches on WrestleMania 14 but it's exactly the PPV the company needed to help reach the next level. Austin/HBK is a fine match and had the right ending, I loved the hell out of Undertaker/Kane as a 10 year old, Foley+Funk/Outlaws was a ton of fun, Rock came off like a star... it was a very solid event. It wasn't the spectacle that WrestleMania is now, but back then it didn't have to be.
ReplyDeleteAs crazy as this sounds, I'd go a year later...Hogan/Piper "War to Settle the Score". Hogan was the champ for most of the year but wrestling was doing the same business economically as it always had (MSG was always a sell out). Once MTV put it on, they got the exposure to lead to Mania I. Without Mania I, there's no boom period.
ReplyDeletePlus the first Pete Rose tombstone.
ReplyDeleteHogan/Rock I should have some historical importance to it, even if it didn't really change the business. I wouldn't think there were many occasions where two top stars from the same generation faced off... AFTER becoming such, since they tend to be babyfaces.
ReplyDeleteI mean WWE played the Cena/Rock thing like it was the most important feud in the history of the universe, and Cena does not = Hogan.
Wade usually makes me want to punch my computer screen with his opinions, so I wouldn't put too much into it. Bret Hart/Stone Cold from the previous year, or Montreal are WAAAAAAAAY more important.
ReplyDeleteSteamboat vs Savage at Wrestlemania III: a five star classic in terms of actual wrestling, stole the show on the biggest event ever, inspired dozens of great wrestlers to follow their dreams.
ReplyDeleteBraden Walker vs. Armando Estrada has GOT to be up there.
ReplyDeleteHas to be Hogan vs. Iron Sheik. Wrestling changed forever soon after that happened.
ReplyDeleteI remember when that match was announced for the countdown show. I legit thought they would have it live in the arena and it would be the most awkward shitfest ever. Kind of like when that Joe Walsh wannabe guy sang "Are You Ready to Rock?" on the SummerSlam 95 countdown I think, with an electric guitar that wasn't plugged in.
ReplyDeleteJust compare it to Starrcade 97. Whereas not a single face went over for the first five matches, in WM XIV all the right goes went over. A couple of heels won - as they should have under the circumstances - but it was mostly the faces winning. And then you have the clear, unequivocal passing of the torch and the official launch of the Austin era. Those two ppvs completely told the story of how the two organizations were going in opposite directions.
ReplyDeleteVince vs. Austin on Raw with Dude Love's interference (the main event that ended Nitro's winning streak) has to be up there too as far as matches that really launched the WWF's boom period. How about the Fingerpoke of Doom: basically ended WCW.
ReplyDeleteProbably can be argued since the match was the drizzling shits but what about Cena vs. JBL at WM21. Started the Cena era that's still going on 8 years later (and will be going on 8 years after this.)
Uh, Hart/Austin - WM13 was pretty damned important.
ReplyDeleteI'd put Austin/Hart at WrestleMania 13 over Austin's title win at 14. The latter was inevitable, the former is the match that put Austin on the map and basically started his era.
ReplyDeleteThe answer is obviously Tomko/Richards-in-drag
ReplyDeleteThe big difference between WM14 and Starrcade '97 was that no WCW wrestler cared about the event. Pretty much all the wrestlers went in and went through the motions ans treated it as any other show, whereas with WM14, all the wrestlers brought into the hype and everyone brought their A-game in with them, even Sable. I know there weren't any blowaway matches, mostly because of injuries, but you can tell the effort was there.
ReplyDeleteIs that the one where the girl wrestler kept farting? Because farts are funny.
ReplyDeleteMuch of the reason for its historical importance was that the biggest babyface ever (up to that point, possibly still, though that's an argument for another thread) turned heel and made the hot new faction huge. Hogan wouldn't have been in a position to do that without all that he had done before. And his match with Sheik put him in a position to change and establish so much. That's why I gotta agree that Hogan/Sheik is the top one, at least since 1963.
ReplyDeleteThe only one that I think can rival it is whatever match instigated Vince Sr. dropping out of the NWA ( I think it was a Thesz-Buddy Rogers matchup). Can you imagine if the WWF had still been a part of the NWA when Vince Jr. took over? Forming the WWWF, separate from the NWA, would have huge implications down the line.
Hogan/Sheik, Hogan/Andre, Montreal, and WM14 main event, I think, have to be top 4. They're the ones that reshaped the business, and gained wrestling mainstream notoriety. We can throw in stuff like Hart/Austin and Cena/Punk, but the bottom line is that nobody was watching outside of our little wrestling world.
ReplyDeleteWhich I think is further testament to the different shapes both companies were in.
ReplyDeleteI know hindsight says that the nWo/Hulk Hogan turn was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but at the time it really didn't reflect in the ratings and it took some time to catch on, whereas Hulk's 80's popularity and Austin's popularity immediately shot through the roof.
ReplyDeleteAnd while Austin was extremely over, it did need HBK to 'make him'. It's hard to say how business would have turned out if HBK hadn't suffered his career ending back injury again, and if HBK went over Austin the same way HHH went over Booker at WM19 and Austin was shot down to the midcard again for daring to get over on his own.
The Spider Lady screws Wendi Richter, kills women's wrestling forever.
ReplyDeleteWendi Richter screwed Wendi Richter.
ReplyDeleteIf your criteria is people watching from outside the wrestling world, then you better throw Hogan vs Piper in there as well, as that match basically headlined Wrestlemania 0.
ReplyDeleteThis is actually somewhat important because Pete Rose getting tombstoned turned into a great WrestleMania moment(s).
ReplyDeleteYeah I kept thinking of Starrcade when I typed that stuff up about Mania. In 50 years, you could tell someone that there were two companies fighting a war and show them each show, calling them the most important events during the war and that person would be able to easily identify the WWF as being on the way up and WCW being on the decline.
ReplyDeleteRegarding WM 14: Was watching the Austin DVD on netflix earlier today. We have always asked and debated what if shawn was too injured to wrestle. However what if Austin & HBK were both too injured to wrestle again. What would have main evented WM 14?
ReplyDeleteThis isn't the Vince vs. Austin show but it's from the same time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm0ewGtIjjw
ReplyDeleteVince dancing with Dude Love and the Dudettes was one of my favorite little things during the Attitude Era.
Most important HBK vs Razor Ramon at WM 10. It was the first ladder match people saw and it upped the ante for future dangerous gimmick matches. Before that, how many special type of matches were there except for steel cage? Now, we see at least one ladder match every 2-3 months and at least one special gimmick match at every ppv.
ReplyDeleteOne of the absolute best things about Vince. He has no qualms looking like an absolute jackass.
ReplyDeleteHogan/ Mr T vs. Piper/Orndoff has to be up there. It sold the first WM, and we all know how important Wrestlemania has been over the years.
ReplyDeleteI guess we're assuming the neck injury at Summerslam is too much for Austin to overcome? Without Austin to lead the company into the stratosphere, that would leave Bret as a heel v. face DX of Shawn and Hunter for the title at Mania 14, I think. I don't know how they would have gotten along long enough for Bret to put over Shawn, but it's often been said (by HHH) that the hottest act in the business outside of Austin in the fall of 97 was DX, and their antics turned them face after Mania... so maybe playing against the Hart foundation through the fall and winter would have turned them face, and Michaels could have taken Austin's place as the face of the company.
ReplyDeleteIt wouldn't have been great, but the Rock still would have caught fire and eventually (maybe by Summerslam 98) displaced Michaels as the top guy.
Really? How many gimmick matches were before HBK/Razor? Strap, Lumberjack, Scaffold, Battle Royale, whatever on a pole, Hair vs Hair, Loser leave town, flag matches, penalty box matches, empty arena matches, tuxedo, last man standing, Texas Death match...
ReplyDeleteThe War to Settle the Score has to be in the discussion. Beating Sheik made Hogan the champ but fighting Piper on MTV really put the WWF on the map.
ReplyDeleteWCW played to packed stadiums for Nitro for months after the fingerpoke though... I don't know that it's the WCW killer everybody says it is.
ReplyDeleteEverything about Vince and Austin was awesome.
ReplyDeleteThey should bring the penalty box match back.
ReplyDeleteWade Keller is barely above Dougie in my mind. I haven't been to his site in years.
ReplyDeleteSteamboat vs Austin in WCW. Steamboat injures Austin, leading to Austin being fired, leading to Austin going to ECW and creating the prototype Stone Cold character, leading to... Well you get the picture.
ReplyDeleteOf course I don't actually believe that,I just posted it to make the point that picking one match as the one that changed the business most is a fools' game. There is always a series of events that lead upto that match and there's always a counter-factual.
I love the WM13 match with Bret, but Austin was turning face with or without that match. Likewise in terms of taking wrestling to another level I'd say the pull apart with Tyson was at least as important as the blow-off match at WM14.
I don't think the Rock/Cena matches are that big a deal. Cena's never felt like the *real* face of the company to me, and as far as I'm concerned at those shows the Rock could have been wrestling himself and I would have been equally as interested as his "feud" with Cena.
ReplyDeleteHowever hbk was injured thanks to the casket match
ReplyDeleteI just went through all the wm matches before wmx. The only "dangerous" matches before that were wm 2 steel cage with hogan/bundy and that's it (WMX also had falls count anywhere between crush/savage.) You had the blind fold match, the body slam challenge, handicapped matches, a boxing match, but none of those matches are dangerous..
ReplyDeleteIts just repeated so many times that its' become accepted fact. The ratings don't decline until April. DDP as champion, the majority of the nWo being injured, the nitro set change, Hogan turning face again are all things that happened around that time. Maybe people should talk more about that.
ReplyDeleteThe Austin vs McMahon segments from Wrestlemania 14 to Over the Edge are arguably the best things to ever be on Raw.
ReplyDeleteExcept (in this alternate reality) if Michaels isn't champion in January he wouldn't be wrestling Undertaker in a casket match. he'd be winning the Rumble to set up Hart/Michaels at Maina.
ReplyDeleteI misunderstood the original question, I thought we were just assuming Austin was done after Summerslam and couldn't come back.
Yeah, when you start getting into the "indirectly" type stuff, that makes it hard to say what's significant. I mean Austin became "Austin 3:16" by beating Jake Roberts, so is that the most significant match of all time?
ReplyDeleteHe's still got enough cred to get big names for his interviews, which happens to coincide with his biggest strength--interviewing. But otherwise, meh.
ReplyDeleteWCW was going neck and neck with the WWF before it too. WCW's more serious style made the WWF's cartoon world seem stupid and even without the nWo, I imagine they would've overtaken the WWF anyway. The nWo gave them the momentum they needed to take it to the next level though.
ReplyDeleteStarrcade 97 should be shown to bookers everywhere as how not to book a blow-off show.
ReplyDeleteIn that situation you could call Hogan's/Austin's /whoever's first match the most significant, or even the match that made them want to be a wrestler.
ReplyDeleteVince is possibly the greatest politician in wrestling. His only pride is in victory, everything to get there? Completely pointless.
ReplyDeleteAustin pretty much was too injured to wrestle in the first place. So they'd do the same thing, change their main event style so there's not very much bumping. I think Austin bumped like 3 or 4 times at WM 14.
ReplyDeleteNash beats Goldberg: ends streak, leads to Fingerpoke of Doom, kills WCW.
ReplyDeleteStanley Blackburn overturning the Hogan title win over Bockwinkel. I maintain that Hogan in AWA would have been better for wrestling fans, Hogan in WWF SIGNIFICANTLY better for wrestling's popularity and profitability.
ReplyDeleteNice asses.
ReplyDeleteAnd the girl's rears are hot, too.
There is only one right answer: Gotch vs. Hackenschmidt.
ReplyDeleteHogan turned down the AWA title, because Hogan wanted what was best for Hogan, brother.
ReplyDeleteIf Scott includes Montreal (as #2 no less) I'd say that Bash at the Beach '96 ranks higher.
ReplyDelete- Gave a giant resurgence to not only Hogan's illustrious career, but Nash and Hall's as well
- Big catalyst to the Monday Night Wars
- Started the nWo, who also went on to sell 8 billion t-shirts
Montreal doesn't touch that, if you ask me. I'd say Montreal ranks below Sammartino winning the title for the first time.
Was that the first fixed wrestling bout? So it was the Silva/Weidman of its time?
ReplyDelete#3. Flair vs. Steamboat, 1989-redefined wrestling for a generation
ReplyDelete#4. Savage vs. Steamboat, Wrestlemania III-ditto.
I was about to say, the scaffold match is probably both the most dangerous and stupidest match ever invented, but in terms of WWF, it'd have to be the ladder match that redefined dangerous gimmick matches.
ReplyDeleteI've made the case for quite a while that if you were to look at wrestling as an 'art form' then the most influential matches aren't necessarily the ones that lead to big business, but the ones that change how people wrestle. It's like how Bonnie and Clyde and The Velvet Underground & Nico often top influential films and albums lists even though neither were mega blockbuster hits (I might be a little bit wrong on B&C but it certainly isn't featured on adjusted Box Office Mojo, etc.)
ReplyDeleteTo that end I think you could argue that the Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid matches are actually the most important series of matches in that they redefined Japanese junior heavyweight wrestling, that bled into the heavyweight style over time and then 90s indy wrestling, and is now a major element to most top line wrestlers in all major American and Japanese promotions.
No matter what we complain about the WWE, and to a lesser extent TNA, being the Land of the Giants the average height of the roster in both promotions is almost certainly at least a few inches shorter, and I think that's because the Dynamite - Tiger matches, either directly or indirectly, led to a generation of sub-six footers thinking that they could make a go of this wrestling thing...
Why would an incredible high impact match from 2 of the all time greats from 1989 redefine wrestling when an incredible high impact match from 2 of the all time greats had already redefined it 2 years earlier?
ReplyDeleteWhether or not it was fixed is sketchy, actual documentation of when wrestling switched from athletic contest to pure fiction is hard to come by
ReplyDeleteIt was a redefiniton swerve.
ReplyDeleteas someone mentioned before, depends on the personal definition. to me, the most significant match is Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant. it is arguably the biggest match in the biggest venue with the biggest crowd (and that feud is the biggest tv ratings draw).
ReplyDeleteAustin vs. Michaels is criminally under rated.
ReplyDeleteI can't help but love that match. One guys got a crippling back injury and one guy broke his neck and didn't even take much time off to heal. You've got two guys who should not be wrestling and they go out there and clearly bust their asses to deliver to the best of their abilities. Even in their physical states they still delivered a fun match.
ReplyDeleteUnderrated? I don't know. Under appreciated? Oh hell yeah.
Mike Tyson's involvement with WM XIV was extremely important, and probably part of the reason for it's success and that of WWE afterwards.
ReplyDeleteIt brought viewers who wouldn't normally watch to buying the show. And they became WWE viewers/Stone Cold fans afterwards.
Hogan vs Piper (Brawl To End It All) was THE reason I started watching wrestling. I wasn't interested in it at all until i saw it on my MTV screen.. so that's my personal most historic match.
ReplyDeleteAs for the rest, I'd also have to go Hogan vs Iron Sheik since it changed the entire business and a lot of those other matches wouldn't have been as big if Vince didn't give Hogan the ball when Verne passed. Game changer.
Nine downvotes! Apparently you people don't understand comedy like me and Steph.
ReplyDelete/slinks away
//I'll be good...
Keller is right
ReplyDeleteI've heard a lot of criticisms of Cena, but "doesn't feel like the true face of the company" is a new one to me! Could you elaborate?
ReplyDeleteI agree with your assessment of the Rock/Cena feud though.
I don't know if I'd throw in the Nitro set change as a reason the company died. RAW's set has changed a handful of times over the last 15 years or so, the company is still around.
ReplyDeleteYou called?
ReplyDeleteYou were unfairly raped.
ReplyDeleteUnlike those who are raped fairly.
Hogan was going to the WWF anyway.
ReplyDeleteYou win.
ReplyDeleteI think I read some where, or heard from a Foley shoot, that one of those women is Foley's wife.
ReplyDeleteDifferent styles. While Savage/Steamboat inspired a new generation of fans(some of whom became wrestlers, like Jericho, Edge, etc.), Flair/Steamboat had three different matches that set the standard for a great non-gimmicked match for years to come.
ReplyDeleteEven though it was stupid I see where you were going so I will give you a pity upvote.
ReplyDeleteScott is dead on. Hogan-Sheik might as well be the Book of Genesis. It started EVERYTHING.
ReplyDeleteWatch the match for 2 reasons: Gorilla on the call, and the Atari advertisement in the rafters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9psdw86uAUg
Supposedly this was a HUGE event in its day, nothing wrestling has done since has touched the kind of national attention this got.
ReplyDeletePut it this way, if both were in shape it'd be five stars, easy. Broken down they got to 3.5. Amazing feat!
ReplyDeleteNash was a double agent.
ReplyDeleteApparently Moolah did that for years in the territories, shooting and stealing victories so she was the only real women's champion. So because of that, rather than there ever being a definitive history of women's wrestling, it was a sideshow attraction where a bunch of faceless broads tried to beat the one woman whose ego left her as the only star well past her sell-by point.
ReplyDelete100% on Hogan vs Sheik. Without Hogan going over in that match then we'd have no Hogan vs. Piper, Hogan vs. Andre, etc. Heck, one could argue that WWE wouldn't be around today..
ReplyDeleteWould Austin 3:16 or nWo shirts been seen as cool and vintage to wear now? It's been like 15 years.
ReplyDeleteNo one's really giving Hogan/Andre credit here? Wrestlemania could have slinked back into just being "a big wrestling show" like the blowoff shows in every other territory. Then they book this epic battle to headline a giant show at a packed stadium and it turns Mania into the true Super Bowl of wrestling, that still is the focus of the company every year.
ReplyDelete1. Hogan vs Andre
ReplyDelete2. Hart vs Michaels
3. Hogan vs Warrior
4. Hogan vs Sting
5. Austin vs Michaels
What's weird is 15 years ago, Austin became a huge star. 15 years before that, Hogan hadn't even won the title yet. Man time is a crazy thing.
ReplyDeleteYeah, their 8 hour matches were classics! One match would take up an entire DVD set.
ReplyDeleteI think the WWE would be around (Vince was going national, no matter what, it seemed), but in a much smaller role than it is today. Really, both Hogan and McMahon made each other in the type of partnership that's really rare.
ReplyDeleteBut your main point (Hogan/Shiek begets Hogan/Piper, Hogan/Andre, etc) is the most important one.
Imagine Hogan/Andre as Snuka/Andre or JYD/Andre.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but the Nitro set change was fucking awful.
ReplyDeleteI've never been more entertained by a match than Dude Love vs Austin at OTE 98. Peaking with Taker destroying Brisco and Patterson.
ReplyDeleteI just wrote this in the "bad heat" thread but the Fingerpoke of doom was absolutely the moment that I gave up on WCW because I remember feeling it at the time, not just based on the retrospective analysis that it's what led to the company's downfall.
ReplyDeleteYeah. He must workout.
ReplyDeleteAs a Top 10 pick - not at the top, but somewhere in the conversation - I'm gonna throw out Hogan-Flair at the Bash in 1994, setting up WCW as a player they had never been before.
ReplyDeleteI think it ranks above Austin-Michaels in terms of impact, but below a bunch of other Hogan matches.
I've always been of the belief that WM XIV was the most important, significant show in the company's history, mainly for the reasons outlined earlier in the thread. It was the perfectly booked show exactly at a time where the WWF had the opportunity to capitalize on the mounting issues in WCW. The main event as a specific, stand-alone match, however, wouldn't qualify as the most important match ever.
ReplyDeleteI just picture a sweaty Vince Russo in front of a computer figuring out different ways to swerve people:
ReplyDelete(Picks up phone)
"Ed! Let's do a redefinition swerve!"
(Pause)
"What do you mean, I got fired again?"
Hogan Vs. Triple H after Hogan got the title on his nostalgia run. That was like, serious end game stuff for me. As in, I am done watching these silly games.
ReplyDeleteyes those events (along with the NBA playoffs that always hurt ratings) all hit around spring, however as we all know, wrestling ratings trail events. A promotion's quality often fails or gets better several months before the ratings reflect it. I would argue ending the streak, bringing back the NWO, and not focusing on Goldberg were the catalysts that made WCW fans ready to jump ship. Hogan's face turn and some really awful ppvs were just the final straw.
ReplyDeleteHogan v. Andre. Without it, Wrestlemania 3 would probably be an epic fail.....and without WM 3, there might no longer BE a WWE. Especially once Vince blew his fortune on boxing, or the WBF, or the XFL. Also, it opened the way for PPV and Supercards as they exist today, the Wrestlemanias taking place in massive stadiums, and the continued extinction of the NWA and the territories.
ReplyDeleteWell of the last 10 years, yes. Stone Cold's look on his face when he said "Who?????" is thew best moment in the history of Tuff Enuff
ReplyDeleteBill Simmons has a story about that match that he wrote a little bit about on ESPN.com and mentioned on one of his 5000 podcasts.
ReplyDeleteAfter the match was over he wanted to stick around to see how bad Shawn was hurt. During the whole celebration with Tyson, Shawn's still down. They end the show, people start filing out, Shawn's still down. They turn the lights on in the arena to coax all the people hanging around to get out. Still down. Finally HHH and Chyna got in there and scraped him off the mat and carried him into the back. He never got up on his own.
Going back and watching the match it's really kind of a minor miracle that the match was that good now that we know how badly he was hurt.
I think it goes Hogan/Sheik, Austin/HBK, Austin/Rock WM 17.
ReplyDeleteYeah, anytime someone says that Vince isn't a genius they should point to WM XIV. Just contrasting with Starrcade and what WCW was putting on Vince was street's ahead.
ReplyDeletewas that the Raw the night after Wrestlemania? With X-Pac coming out and cutting a MONEY promo? Because if it was that show felt like the tide turner.
ReplyDeleteI can't say whether it was fixed or not but I was reading about their matches and some shady shit was going down. Either that or Hackenschmidt was 2001 Austin paranoid.
ReplyDeleteTheir rematch was only twenty minutes apparently. A squash if there ever was one!
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. Looking at some of the stuff he did in that match too I wish Shawn didn't have such an ego that he HAD to put on that kind of performance despite his injury because it is painful to watch.
ReplyDeleteNone of this is to discredit Austin either because c'mon, he had a broken neck just 7 months prior. It's a miracle he was in there too.
No, that would have been a week or two later.
ReplyDeleteTo add to that a little, while I don't agree it's number one, the Hogan/Andre match also had other long-term effects. Setting that attendance record and the type of exposure the WWF had made it easier for the company to draw guys like Dibiase and Duggan when the UWF folded. I'm pretty sure other top guys in the territories were looking at that PPV and wanted in on the action.. some of the best wrestlers jump shipped to the WWF between that year's WM and the next: Ultimate Warrior, The Rockers, Rick Rude, Bam Bam Bigelow, One Man Gang, Bad News Brown, & Sam Houston (I liked him.. LOL)
ReplyDeleteWhile I wouldn't label it the most significant, the Austin-Dude Love match from Over the Edge '98 deserves an honorable mention since it pretty much established the WWF main event style that they ran during their ascension to the top.
ReplyDeleteI understand the argument for Austin-HBK, since it was Austin's first world title win, but the Austin-Bret Wrestlemania 13 double-turn had just as much, if not more, impact on establishing Austin as a main-event money draw. After that match, it was simply a matter of time Austin was going to be on top of the company and it didn't really matter who was dropping the title to him. And without Montreal, they wouldn't have had the money feud ready to go once Austin was champion, since Montreal was the genesis of the Mr. McMahon gimmick.
ReplyDeleteIf Austin/HBK at WM14 was chapter 1, then Austin/Hart at WM13 was definitely the prologue of the attitude era. I can't think of a bigger symbolic match that clearly emphasizes the differences in culture and eras and the changing landscape between one to the other...nothing has been the same ever since, fans got their taste of their first badass heel, and they have been rooting for them ever since. Bret Hart went from hero to bum to montreal and with him any real last remnant of the old era. HBK started up D-X, Kane would debut, Rocky Maivia turned to the Nation...basically the seeds all planted and I'd like to think that WM13 match was the kickoff point symbolically.
ReplyDeleteI think an even better question would be, what the more recent important matches, what matches in the 00's have significantly affected WWE right now? I'd like to think JBL vs Cena in WM21 was important, but i think the match that really set Cena's career as a guy who would split fans in the middle around the world was HHH vs Cena at chicago in WM 22.
Who are we to criticize Kevin Nash when we all know it was Goldbergs fault for punching out a window ten months later and the dot com bubble that happened two years after. We just need to make sure we keep talking about Nash while at the airport.
ReplyDeleteWhile not on the level of the others discussed here, Hart's title win over Flair in 1992 went a long way in making it so that smaller stars with in-ring talents were given the opportunity to succeed in the main event scene.
ReplyDeleteMichaels, Austin, Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, Mysterio, Punk and Bryan owe a lot of their varied degrees of success as top stars to Vince deciding to go with the smaller Bret as champion and the success he enjoyed.