by Logan Scisco
-Jim Ross & Jerry “the King” Lawler are doing commentary tonight and they are live from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. This is the first exclusive pay-per-view pairing of Ross and Lawler, as Vince McMahon has given up regular commentary duties.
-Opening Contest: “The Road Dogg” Jesse James, “Bad Ass” Billy Gunn & The Godwinns defeat The Headbangers & The New Blackjacks when James and Gunn are the survivors after Gunn pins Thrasher with a flying leg drop at 15:25:
Other Eliminations: Bradshaw pins Henry Godwinn with a cradle out of an abdominal stretch at 3:51; Phineas Godwinn pins Barry Windham with a lariat at 5:11; Gunn pins Mosh after countering a bulldog with an inverted slam at 8:40; Thrasher pins Phineas with a Mosh Pit at 12:37; James pins Bradshaw with a schoolboy at 13:44
This is the entire tag team division, Legion of Doom excluded, as we approach the end of 1997 and when you look around it’s not that surprising that the WWF was willing to give James and Gunn a run with the titles. James and Gunn are actually the most over team in the match, with Gunn booed heavily when he steps into the ring and enduring some chants questioning his sexual preferences. Gunn just rolls with it and gives the crowd a one finger salute, only riling them up more. As it is, this match is just a vehicle to continue James & Gunn’s rise through the tag division and give them a justification for facing the Legion of Doom for the tag team titles later in the month. The crowd isn’t into most of the guys in this thing so it dies a slow and painful death and on a couple of eliminations it’s not clear whether wrestlers are pinned or not. It reminds me of the accelerated Survivor Series tag match on the Free for All the previous year. Gunn completely whiffs on his finishing move, which just makes it all worse. Last year’s tag team opener with Furnas & LaFon this wasn’t. Rating: DUD
-Kevin Kelly and Sunny tempt us to call the Superstar Line to find hear from the night’s winners and losers. I have a feeling that when the real controversy broke out later in the evening that people were flooding in calls, but they got little for their money.
-The Truth Commission beats The Disciples of Apocalypse when The Interrogator is the sole survivor after pinning Crush with a sidewalk slam at 9:58:
Other Eliminations: The Interrogator pins Chainz after a sidewalk slam at 1:18; Skull pins the Jackal with a spinning sidewalk slam at 2:50; Skull pins Recon after a lariat at 5:20; Sniper pins Skull with a bulldog at 6:29; The Interrogator pins 8-Ball with a sidewalk slam at 8:50; Crush pins Sniper with a powerslam at 9:47
The good thing about the Survivor Series in this format is that it allows you blow off factional feuds like this fairly easily. The Truth Commission head into this at a disadvantage because the Jackal has to wrestle to make this a true four-on-four encounter and predictably, he’s the first man on his team to be eliminated. However, he just goes and does commentary for the rest of the match, which has no heat. On the bright side, if you love sidewalk slams this is your match. Before there was the Great Khali you had the Interrogator, who was repackaged three different times and failed to get over in any of those incarnations so eventually the WWF let him go. However, this was at the time where they really wanted to make him the star of the group, so regardless of the fact that the DOA were still cheered by parts of the fan base, they are jobbed out again. By the way, this was Crush’s last WWF pay-per-view appearance before jumping to WCW, thereby finishing up his run of futility with the company. The reason this isn’t a DUD is that it kept a pretty good pace. Rating: *
-Fans share their thoughts on who they think will win tonight’s championship match between Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels.
-Kelly hypes America Online’s chat about the show. Steve Austin is participating in the chat and says that he is going forward after his neck injury.
-Team USA (Vader, Goldust, Marc Mero, and Steve Blackman) give a promo. Blackman doesn’t relay much intensity, but promo work was never his strong point.
-Team Canada (The British Bulldog, Jim Neidhart, Doug Furnas & Philip LaFon) sees Furnas renounce his American citizenship.
-Team Canada (The British Bulldog, Jim “The Anvil” Neidhart, Doug Furnas & Philip LaFon) beats Team USA (Vader, Goldust, Marc Mero & Steve Blackman w/Sable) when the Bulldog is the sole survivor after pinning Vader after hitting him with the ring bell at 17:46:
Other Eliminations: Blackman gets counted out at 5:44; Vader pins Neidhart after a splash at 7:31; Vader pins LaFon after a splash off the second rope at 9:07; Furnas pins Mero with a rollup and holding the tights at 11:57; Goldust gets counted out at 16:58; Vader pins Furnas after a Vader Bomb at 17:34
This is the blowoff for the 1997 feud between Canada and the United States and it ends with more of a whimper than a bang. The Patriot suffered a debilitating bicep injury before the show, so he was penciled out and Blackman was put into the match. This is an odd match on paper because Furnas and LaFon just returned and only one of the wrestlers on Team Canada was actually born there, a fact that Ross brings up on commentary. Team USA are the heels, but it’s nothing like the dynamic that was present at Canadian Stampede four months prior. The Bulldog does get a massive pop for vertically suplexing Vader, though. Blackman is presented as the new “supreme fighting machine” (my words, not the WWF’s) and his karate-style is put over strong and the heels have to gang up to eliminate him. Goldust is brooding over family issues and has a broken hand so he refuses to tag in and Vader tires of that and tosses him into the ring. Goldust just decides to walk out after that, which sets up a new feud with Vader and basically costs Team USA the match. The match had some fun moments, like a great power match between Furnas and Vader, but when the Goldust-Vader issue took over it limped over the finish line. Rating: ***
-Call 815-734-1161 to get a new Steve Austin t-shirt for $25 (plus $6 shipping & handling)!
-Ross and Lawler talk to Jacquelin Cook, who won the Survivor Series Super Supper Sweepstakes so she and ten friends can have dinner with a WWF superstar. Luckily, she picks Steve Austin and not Bret Hart for her dinner guest.
-A long video package hypes Kane-Mankind.
-Mankind says that the next match won’t be a wrestling match because it is going to be him against a brick wall.
-Kane (w/Paul Bearer) beats Mankind with a Tombstone at 9:29:
I’m surprised that they didn’t put this match after the first two in order to break up the string of Survivor Series matches. Like Sin Cara and Glacier, Kane had special lighting for his early matches, but it makes some spots on the arena floor hard to see. This is Kane’s first televised singles match and Mankind takes his usual sick bumps to get him over. Heading in, everyone knew who the winner of this match would be, but Mankind gives this a good effort and produces a pretty good David-Goliath struggle. Rating: **½
-Michael Cole interviews Commissioner Slaughter and Vince McMahon. Slaughter says security has been stepped up in the backstage area and McMahon says that Bret-Michaels will hopefully happen tonight, since it has been cancelled several times before. Cole asks him who is going to win, as a wink at the smart fans, to which McMahon replies “I don’t know” which leaves you with the impression that something is wrong. It just feels eerie.
-Dok Hendrix interviews Ken Shamrock, Ahmed Johnson & The Legion of Doom.
-Ken Shamrock, Ahmed Johnson & The Legion of Doom defeat The Nation of Domination when Shamrock is the sole survivor after making Rocky Maivia submit to the ankle lock at 20:37:
Other Eliminations: Rocky Maivia pins Hawk with a Rock Bottom at 2:15; Johnson eliminates Faarooq with a Pearl River Plunge at 4:39; Maivia pins Johnson when Faarooq trips Johnson and holds his leg down at 6:18; Animal pins Kama Mustafa with a schoolboy at 10:53; Animal gets counted out at 15:00; Shamrock forces D-Lo Brown to submit to the ankle lock at 17:12
This Ahmed-Nation issue is a little out of hand, since this feud has been going on since the summer of 1996. I mean we have headed into Tito Santana-Rick Martel territory here. Ahmed gets a measure of revenge on Faarooq by eliminating him, but Faarooq returns the favor and they brawl to the locker room because the feud must continue! After those sequences, the crowd completely dies as Animal takes the offensive. The only thing that wakes them up from time to time is to taunt Maivia. As the crowd works up a “Rocky’s gay” chant, I have to wonder what future generations will think of these fans since it is no longer acceptable to chant those things and how editing that stuff out will butcher future releases of this show. Jesse James and Billy Gunn come out and get Animal eliminated, but don’t fear because that allows Shamrock to mount the comeback and by proxy, build up a feud with Maivia that will carry into 1998. This thing had a hot start, but completely died around the eight minute mark. Shamrock-Maivia brought it back at the end, but it took forever to get there. Rating: *½
-Cole interviews some fans about who is going to win the WWF championship match later tonight.
-A video package hypes Steve Austin-Owen Hart.
-Intercontinental Championship Match: “Stone Cold” Steve Austin beats Owen Hart (Champion w/Team Canada) with a Stone Cold Stunner to win the title at 4:01:
This is a weird dynamic for Austin’s return, since he’s in hostile territory but he manages a mixed reaction to show how over he is. Jim Neidhart tries to attack Austin before the bell, but eats a Stunner and that allows Owen to get the advantage. Sensing trouble, Owen tries to get counted out and when that doesn’t work he chokes Austin with a microphone cord and tells the referee “disqualify me” and when the referee tells him no and to break it, Owen says “NEVER!” Shortly after that, Austin gets Owen in the ring and then hits the Stunner and wins the title. Really awkward match to watch, but Austin came back too quickly and was very fragile. Also, if someone broke my neck in the ring I wouldn’t want to be out there with them very long either. Watching this at the time, though, I had a lot of reservations about Austin’s future in-ring career. Thankfully, those reservations proved to be unfounded, at least in the short term. Rating: *½
-A video package hypes Bret Hart-Shawn Michaels.
-WWF Championship Match: “The Heartbreak Kid” Shawn Michaels (European Champion) beats Bret “the Hitman” Hart (Champion) when Bret submits to the Sharpshooter to win the title at 11:00:
Well, this is the infamous “Montreal Screwjob” whereby Bret refused to lose to Michaels in Montreal and instead of running with the agreed upon finish, which was a double disqualification, Vince McMahon had referee Earl Hebner ring the bell when Michaels had Bret in the Sharpshooter to cause a title change. While this match is tough to watch as a Bret fan, I do believe that McMahon and crew were justified in what they did because it made no sense to have Bret forfeit the belt and head to WCW as an undefeated champion. They couldn’t have run Michaels-Bret on RAW and had a title switch there, which would have cheated the paying pay-per-view customers, so that was off the table. You can sense the frustration that the WWF booking staff felt if you watch Jim Cornette’s 1997 Timeline shoot interview, as he says it was chaos trying to come up with a reasonable finish for the match. In the end, all parties are to blame for what unfolded, some more than others. Watching this match fifteen years later, with the entrances showing both guys coming to the ring from their locker rooms, it feels a lot like a funeral to the “Bret Hart” era that has existed in the company since he won the WWF title in 1992. This match is probably the most controversial and arguably most significant match in wrestling history, as it generated some of the momentum that led to the WWF overtaking WCW, helped cement Vince McMahon’s status as a heel, and it still generates a great deal of debate today. There is some nice continuity in the sense that five years ago when these two faced off at the Survivor Series they both had singles titles, with Bret as the WWF champion and Michaels as the Intercontinental champion. As a match, it is actually a good prelude to the Austin era since they brawl into the crowd and up the aisle before the official bell. The pacing is a little slower than usual and there is only one near-fall, which might be owed to Bret being paranoid about a fast count finish. It’s a little weird to rate this match, since the screwjob ended it abruptly and before it was supposed to, but I guess you have to work with what you have. Rating: ***
The Final Report Card: The only real appeal of this show is the screwjob, but if you hope to see any extracurriculars after the bell rings then you aren’t going to get them on the Coliseum Video release, as the show ended very quickly after the bell and missed Bret Hart destroying equipment and everything else. This is a show that you can easily bypass as it has little redeeming value outside of the legacy of the main event. In fact, I would say it’s the worst Survivor Series up to this point.
Show Evaluation: Thumbs Down
I guess something of significance happened at this show. I can't remember what.ReplyDelete
Beat me to it.ReplyDelete
Yeah, he mentioned it already....Crush's last WWF ppv before jumping to WCW. ;-)ReplyDelete
How ominous was it to have VKM at ringside for this match? I remember watching the show live and saying to my buddy, "He must be out there to make sure everything goes right." I guess, in hindsight, I was right...sort of.ReplyDelete
Still the strangest thing that's happened in the modern era of our strange pastime.
Yeah, I wonder at what point Bret's hair started to stand up.ReplyDelete
1997 is one of the most interesting times for a wrestling company in terms of politics. The instability with Bret's contract status (Vince wanting out) screams "don't put the belt on Bret at SummerSlam"...but he was the most red-hot heel they had had in years. If Shawn accidentally screws Bret at SummerSlam, instead of Taker, and the belt stays on Taker for the UT-HBK series (with Bret still having the nothing matches with Team USA guys like Vader and Patriot), history probably works out differently. Shawn gets the belt back from Taker in the first "Hell in a Cell" thanks to Kane screwing his 'brother' over. You can do DX vs. Hart Foundation at Survivor Series (HBK, HHH, Outlawz uniting a bit earlier, vs. Bret/Owen/Bulldog/Neidhart) as a farewell to Bret. Shawn is still champ and DX gets the last laugh once Bret is gone.ReplyDelete
The booking of that SummerSlam main event and HBK's subsequent path to Bret (through UT, including the debut of Kane) is one of the most brilliantly booked finishes and aftermaths in the history of the company.ReplyDelete
and Crush is...Brian Adams? Ryan Adams? Kronik?ReplyDelete
Agreed, it worked out to be some of their best stuff. It makes me wonder how differently things would have gone if they had avoided putting the title on Bret at SummerSlam thoughReplyDelete
Brian Adams of Kronik and nWo B-team fameReplyDelete
I'm a big Bret fan but lack of creativity is what did him in here. How many times did we see the "you put me in the sharpshooter and I'll try to reverse it" spot? He did it with Owen (makes sense, it was Owen's finisher too). He did it with Austin (makes sense, Austin's a dick that would try to beat someone with their own move). But just two months prior to the screwjob, he did the spot again with The Patriot at Ground Zero. The Patriot? Why would the Patriot use the sharpshooter? And then two months later in the big rematch with Shawn...the same spot? Sometimes rehashing a spot can be cool (like the pins on Piper at WM8 and Austin at SS96 being the same). But it cost him here.....ReplyDelete
And by "cost him" I mean he lost a fake championship and got a 1.3 million dollar per year raise...but you get what I'm saying.
Not only is that "ominous", but did you ever notice the eerie hush that comes over the crowd after Hebner gets bumped? It's like everybody except Bret knew what was coming.ReplyDelete
Shawn probably would've stilled feuded with UT, since he had Vince's ear and was at the top of the card even without the title, and won the belt from him at Badd Blodd in HIAC, with a rematch happening at Survivor Series. They also still could've had their wild DQ brawl at Ground Zero to set up HIAC.ReplyDelete
As for Bret, he probably would've been jobbed out to The Patriot and been off TV for a couple months before debuting in WCW if he wasn't the champ...
The Jackal's in-ring debut!ReplyDelete
The only time in history Survivor Series had a higher buyrate than WrestleMania (.77) and SummerSlam (.80).ReplyDelete
I think you were way too kind on ratings here, to be honest - this show is fucking so horrible it's borderline unwatchable.ReplyDelete
Although, from a historical perspective, it's absolutely unmissable viewing.
Maybe it's hindsight, and knowing what happens, but there seems to be an odd aura to this show from the word go. It has a bleak, bitter atmosphere, with a crowd that varies generally varies between hostile and ambivalent (in an era where crowds were hot for pretty much everything), depressingly dim lighting (the shitty quality cameras stuff from this era was shot on probably helps), and a flat, numb series of matches, the participants of which seem unenthused and deflated on the whole.
It was the beginning of the WWF Main Event style of working where wrestlers would use their opponent's finisher on them.ReplyDelete
I'm reminded of the words of the late Sen. Mo Udall, who once quipped, "Everything that needs to be said has been said, but not everyone has said it yet."ReplyDelete
I don't buy at all that any of it was a work, but it's really interesting to hear a few guys that you'd think would be somewhat in the know, Kevin Kelly, Kevin Nash, etc. either state it was a work or not dismiss the possibility.ReplyDelete
In the end, all parties are to blame for what unfolded, some more than others.ReplyDelete
No. Two parties are to blame. Bret for being an asshole and Vince for giving a creative control contract to an asshole.
Kane's first match.ReplyDelete
Agree about lack of creativity. But then therE's a school of thought which holds that ultimately the point of the screwjob was to make an example of Bret, so maybe we're missing the point.ReplyDelete
Personally I would have done a Bret-Shawn-Taker three way. They could have used Taker's issue with Shawn to insert him into the match, the combined star power and novelty of a three way (they were still a pretty new concept) would have offset any disappointment over it not being precisely the rematch everyone wanted. Taker scores the pin, getting around Bret's issue, they can do the respect thing if need be to sweeten the deal. Then switch the belt to Shawn at either IYH-DX or RR.
The saddest thing is not that Bret got screwed. No, the saddest is that Faarooq and Ahmed were still feuding after this. What's up with all the black-on-black crime man?ReplyDelete
We have NO idea what you're talking about-Fat Albert and Jesse JackassReplyDelete
Totally agree about Bret. He should've taken the loss like a man and do what the boss told him. He was leaving, did he really thing he should leave with the belt or just hand it over? He's supposed to be so respectful of the business, or so he claims, and he pulls this shit. I was never a Bret fan but this just cemented my dislike of the man.ReplyDelete
Bret screwed Sunny.ReplyDelete
Even though the end of this how plants the seeds for the wwf's most successful period, back during this time, following this show an up until Tyson's first appearance, I felt that the company was on its last legs.ReplyDelete
The next few Raws that followe this show had a dark and depressing vibe that's almost hard to describe, but could very well be due to the departure of the company's biggest star, and the true void in the main event scene in December (Slaughter and Hunter Hearst Helmsley in the semi-main event? Shamrock in the main event?)
Did the WWF even have a three-way match at this point yet?ReplyDelete
Are you implying that TNA should sign Mike Tyson?ReplyDelete
I was following along online but wasn't watching. It was my first semester of college and I had no access to cable, let alone pay-per-view. Outside of something like this (and maybe Wrestlemania), I never felt like I actually missed anything.ReplyDelete
No,but they'd been done in ECW. It would have been easy enough to import the concept. They'd already done something similar earlier that year with the final four match.ReplyDelete
Yeah, I remember the ECW Three-Way Dances, and even WCW did a couple three-man matches (mostly tag teams, if I'm remembering right, but they also had that stupid Flair-Sting-Luger match, too).ReplyDelete
It's pretty surprising that WWF didn't adapt it before WCW did.
Yes, they'd done a couple of triple threat matches prior to this, but not on pay-per-view. It was more of a concept they had just started experimenting with.ReplyDelete
This was actually a new Faarooq/Ahmed feud. See they feuded, then they became friends, then they became enemies because they're black and thus have to have some connection to each other at all times.ReplyDelete
I was always curious about the creative control - because both parties referred to it as "reasonable creative control", and knowing Vince there's no chance he's giving 100% creative control to anyone. It sort of leaves open the interpretation of "reasonable". It's reasonable to block losing to a midget or another forum of humiliation but after decades of wrestlers losing the title on the way out I don't think he could argue in court that it was "reasonable" to just not lose the title. He was 110% taking a clause in his contract designed to protect himself and using it to justify being selfish.ReplyDelete
...because Bret was the one showing up to work high as a kite and airing people's dirty laundry live on air? Oh wait, that was Shawn.ReplyDelete
Wow, of the big four it did the highest buyrate?ReplyDelete
Vince is the boss. Vince is making Shawn his top heel. Bret is leaving. Bret has to lose the title on the way out. Vince wants Bret to lose the title to Shawn because that's the direction he wants HIS company to go in when Bret is gone.ReplyDelete
Bret's supposed to do his job and that's that. We can come up with a ton of "yeah buts" and fantasy booking ways it could have gone smoother but at the end of the day the only guy who's at fault is the guy who decided to just not do his job - and yes, Shawn was a prick. But Shawn being a prick just gave Bret a reason to put up a shit without having to simply say "I'm pissed off this guy took my place".
What does that have to do with Bret refusing to job on his way out? Even hulk hogan didn't do that.ReplyDelete
Yeah, but you're doing what Bret does - using unrelated facts to justify Bret's behavior.ReplyDelete
If Hulk Hogan decided in 1993 that he wasn't dropping the title to Yokozuna because Yokozuna took a shit without flushing I don't think anyone would be saying "well Hulk was right there, Yoko was an asshole".
He didn't refuse to job on his way out. He refused to job to SHAWN.ReplyDelete
It's easy to say you'd lose to anyone else when you're not being asked to lose to anyone else.ReplyDelete
It's a matter of courtesy, Shawn said he'd never lay down for Bret, so Bret did unto him and said the same thing, only he had the balls to say it to Vince.ReplyDelete
That's refusing to job.ReplyDelete
...you dont know that...ReplyDelete
But at the end of the day Bret and Shawn are employees who's job it is to go out and essentially act out the script Vince McMahon writes for them - Bret Hart the person being pissy at Shawn Michaels the person doesn't mean he doesn't have to do what he's employed and paid to do.ReplyDelete
He laid down for Triple H (on his last Raw match).ReplyDelete
I'm sure he would have laid down for anyone else at that time as well.
I don't, but I'm basing it on what I've heard in interviews and read in his book.ReplyDelete
He can when it's in his contract.ReplyDelete
...to one specific person.ReplyDelete
And again, let's not act like Shawn didn't try the EXACT same thing a couple of months later when he barely had a back to lay on.
I agree. I know Bret felt betrayed and that he felt he deserved better...feelings I can't argue with. What I'll NEVER understand though, is why he didn't no-sell the entire incident and own it. If he just says "Vince showed what kind of a person he is and I regret the situation but I'm now making 3 million dollars and gonna go kick WWFs ass." he comes out of the whole situation looking great.ReplyDelete
But you can't say he would have lost to anyone else with any more certainty than I can say he wouldn't have.ReplyDelete
I can't recall the match you're referring to (was it the one where Shawn was picking his nose with the flag?) but I can probably guess that it wasn't booked as a "Triple H clearly defeated Bret Hart because Triple H is a better wrestler than Bret Hart" like the Shawn match was supposed to have been.
So if Bret Hart murdered someone, and 6 months later Shawn Michaels murdered someone, Bret Hart murdering someone wouldn't have been wrong because Shawn Michaels eventually did it to?ReplyDelete
Kevin Nash would love for it to be a work so he can gloat about how all the stupid smarts fell for it, to make sure we know our place.ReplyDelete
And had Shawn not done the job, he'd be an asshole. But he did.ReplyDelete
Bret, on the other hand, refused to job, because he's an asshole.
So we rag on Hulk Hogan for killing WCW with his creative control and rag on Vince McMahon for not letting Bret Hart's creative control dictate what he did with his belt?ReplyDelete
All I remember from this show is Kanes lighting during his debut match.ReplyDelete
Bret never asked for Yappa Pie Strap matches.ReplyDelete
Not to mention Bret made sure to portray himself as morally superior to Shawn, and having more respect for the business than Shawn.ReplyDelete
And if Vince Russo was still running a wrestling show he'd write a storyline about Kevin Nash upsetting the marks because he knew Montreal was work and they didn't - and the whole thing would be resolved with the marks choosing an internet darling to face Nash in a match that might not be a match but a SHOOT.ReplyDelete
thats fair, but Bret is a mark for himself who thinks he was better than the business.ReplyDelete
My honest opinion was him going into a schmoz and then forfeiting the belt the night afterwards.
If the murder is legal in his contract, then yes. Otherwise, this is a REALLY stupid question.ReplyDelete
The thing that's generally ignored is that Bret started the whole thing. He was the one shooting off about Shawn being champion and taking shots at him in his Calgary Sun column.ReplyDelete
He had "reasonable creative control", so what it comes down to his what's a reasonable way to leave - losing like generations of wrestlers have done before him is reasonable and if Bret had every legal right to block losing why didn't he sue Vince for the screwjob?ReplyDelete
Nash would win said match after a big boot. And being too lazy to actually pin the guy.ReplyDelete
If Bret's to be believed, he technically didn't even have to show up to Montreal. He had worked all his required dates in his contract, as a matter of fact, he had worked more than the required dates.ReplyDelete
If Montreal really was breaching the terms of Bret's contract he would have had Vince in court over it. He was extremely bitter at the time if he had any legal legs to go after Vince over it he would have.ReplyDelete
It would somehow turn Nash face to, because nobody would be expecting it - the bad guys really being the good guys and the good guys being stupid is what makes for compelling television.ReplyDelete
What a lot of you seem to be missing is that Bret and Vince reached an agreement. They had a deal. It would be a schmoz ending, and the next day Bret would vacate the title. That was the agreement. Vince broke that.ReplyDelete
You can argue that the ends justifies the means, but Vince _did_ break his word to Bret. Most regard going back on their word as unseemly and dishonest. Vince did it.
Of course he had other options. He could have begged and pleaded for Bret to job. Maybe Bret would have caved. He could have twisted Shawn's arm until he apologized to Bret. He could have threatened Bret with a lawsuit for violating his contract. Maybe then Bret goes through with it. He could have offered Bret more money to effectively buy out his creative control clause. He could have done it before with Shamrock, or with Taker, or wherever. It's a tough situation, I'll grant that, but there are always options.
Instead, Vince gave Bret his word and went back on him. That's it. You shouldn't do that.
It's amazing to watch people try and defend Bret and flair for the exact same behavior that they condemn Shawn and hogan for.ReplyDelete
True dat. I agree with the poster down below who said that Bret should have responded with "Screw you guys, I'm going South." Heck, maybe that was even the plan until WCW got their claws into him.ReplyDelete
Yea, Vince was very naughty. Vince wouldn't have had to lie to Bret if he would have just agreed to do his job and lose to HBK.ReplyDelete
But it's not like Vince booked a DQ in October with the intention of fucking him all along. Vince wanted Bret to lose to Shawn. Vince asked for this, Bret knew Vince's position. Bret refused. They had heated exchanges, Bret felt betrayed Vince was letting him go, Vince felt betrayed Bret was going into business for himself. Vince just said what he had to say to ensure Bret got in the ring.ReplyDelete
Not saying Flair probably wasn't a nightmare to deal with at times but he was a top guy who jobbed like mad and didn't throw a fit when doing so. Just saying.ReplyDelete
In retrospect I bet Flair was a lot more difficult to deal with than we, or even he, thought he was - when I was reading his book there were a lot of incidents where I got the impression Bishoff didn't just randomly walk up to Flair and put him in his place, there was likely some history there.ReplyDelete
Ask Lex Luger about that.ReplyDelete
Exactly. It's like a kid throwing a temper tantrum because he doesn't want to go home and the parent telling him they can go to McDonalds on the way home if he gets in the car. If the little bastard is kicking and screaming and making a scene wouldn't you tell him what he wants to hear to get in the car?ReplyDelete
Or Scott Steiner.ReplyDelete
Didn't he do that because he promised the title to Sting?ReplyDelete
True but I still think Bischoff was completely in the wrong during the 1998 lawsuit debacle.ReplyDelete
So if Sting got hit by a bus, flair would be champ for life? Who gives a fuck what flair promised? He's not in charge.ReplyDelete
That's not really a defense of Vince's actions, that's just a recitation of some of the facts. Yeah, Vince lied to Bret, that's the whole problem.ReplyDelete
Again, Vince could have done a number of things. Among those, he could have _not agreed with Bret that they would have ending X, then gone behind his back and pulled ending Y._
No, Vince wasn't going to get exactly what he wanted...probably (for all we know he could have talked to Shawn and HHH and convinced Shawn to be contrite for once and maybe Bret would have buried the hatchet and agreed to lay down, or he could have offered Bret more money or offered to let Owen/Davey/Jim out of their contracts, etc.). You don't always get what you want when you give a guy creative control. And you give a guy creative control as part of inducement to sign a contract.
So at best you can say that Vince painted himself into a corner and lied his way out of it. Alright. Not exactly a stirring moral defense. You can get on Bret's case for refusing to job, but this isn't Bret Hart, Serial Ladder Kicker, Glass Ceiling Enforcer, and King Refuses-to-Job. This is Bret Hart, guy who has a pretty real gripe with Shawn and a creative control clause and the WWF Championship and has honored every obligation he's had in this company for the past twelve years. And Bret again, Bret didn't go back on his word to Vince for Survivor Series '97, Vince went back on his word to Bret.
To me this goes 70/15/15 Vince/Bret/Shawn in terms of who is to "blame." I'd put more on Shawn but he seems to have been out of his gourd at this time.
Do you really think Steiner should have been World champion in 1990?ReplyDelete
Now you just grasping for straws.ReplyDelete
The lawsuit, yes. But I think Flair was probably a pain in Bishoffs ass for a while. I doubt Bishoff just randomly decided to yell "this isn't about you anymore" to Flair for no good reason.ReplyDelete
Oh I don't know, I just know the story that Flair supposedly made him look bad in a match that was supposed to be his showcasing as a singles wrestler.ReplyDelete
Shawn's behavior is the reason people defend Bret.ReplyDelete
See, if you're Ric Flair, and you see that Sting is coming to take your place, do you know what would be smart? Going out of your way to befriend the guy who's going to be on top so when he is, he'll go to bat for you like you did for him - and all along you can act like you're just doing the right thing because you gave Sting your word.ReplyDelete
Just read Herb Kunze's Tidbits on that match. Sounds like an awkward mess. I kinda' chalked it up to Steiner being on his own on a huge stage for the first time, but Herb notes that they don't try any of Steiner's big power spots that got him over. So who knows, maybe Flair was dogging it.ReplyDelete
Man, HHH and Montreal still rattle this blog. I didn't read Bret's book so might be ignorant on it, but I'll never get why Bret didn't see it coming? When Vince saunters out to the ring, Bret being in a vulnerable position, and the fact that Bret must have been warned by others of a double cross.ReplyDelete
I don't know if he's ever explained this.
Vince coming out is a red flag...but the Sharpshooter spot was the ending they agreed to. Match has gotta' end someway, even if its a schmoz ending. I suppose Bret could have insisted that the run-ins happen while Bret is in no way vulnerable to a fast count or submission hold, but then he'd be paranoid.ReplyDelete
He says in his book that he thought he had his bases covered due to Hebner swearing on his kids lives not to shaft him.ReplyDelete
There's a Lance Storm shoot where he said he recently re-watched it and knowing what he knows now, he thought Flair was trying to make Steiner look bad. I'll have to go back and watch it again I saw it years ago because I knew about any possibly conspiracy.ReplyDelete
I do know that even as a kid I thought Scott Steiner was pretty badass and couldn't understand why he wasn't wrestling for singles titles so from a child mark perspective Steiner was believable as champion.
If I'm Bret, once I see Vince at ringside I'm calling an audible on the Sharpshooter finish.ReplyDelete
But the first part of the match was supposed to be the brawl where all the officials in the back try to restore order so maybe Vince being there didn't seem completely out of place at the time.
I would agree with that. Vince should never have given Bret creative control, or if he did he should have clarified EXACTLY what "reasonable creative control" did and didn't mean.ReplyDelete
He also should never have given him the belt. With the benefit of hindsight the best thing to do with Bret in late 97 would have been to job him to Taker at Summerslam. I'm sure the crowd would have enjoyed serenading him out of the arena (na-na-na-na-....) and it would have provided a kayfabe reason to keep him off TV while he and Vince worked out whether he still had a place in the company.
Yea, all valid points. I know he must have had tons of stuff running through his mind during the match but when I see Vince come out, I start to freak out and think something's up.ReplyDelete
So morally it's OK to lie through your teeth to people in order to get them to do what you want, and then renege on what you agreed to anyway?ReplyDelete
I can't say if Flair was trying to make Steiner look bad, but it's a weirdly structured match that falls far short of what it could have been.ReplyDelete
But maybe he wanted to do that. Maybe he liked the idea of setting him up as soon as negotiations on the departure became difficult. Dammit. I want a Vince autobiography (and on an unrelated note, a Taker autobiography). His mind would make for such a fascinating study. He contradicts himself every couple of years, he's both a genius and an idiot, and he is a freak on so many levels. Every McMahon story I hear (from chasing people with dirty underwear on a stick to asking his writing staff, "What the hell is a burrito?") just makes me want to hear more.ReplyDelete
If you read Flair's book he didn't really have much respect for the Steiners but that was due to the liberties they took in the ring, according to him. And considering what we know about Scott today I'd say Flair wasn't bullshitting there. I mean seriously, can you imagine road agents being afraid to talk to a talent today like they were with Scott back then?ReplyDelete
Ah, I see. Now it all makes senseReplyDelete
I am almost positive an event so controversial happened here that the wrestling world would never be the same...ReplyDelete
Was this not the first televised appearance of The People's Elbow (of course, not mentioned by name yet)?
Without it, the Worm, Kofi's Boom Drop, Cena's Five Knuckle Shuffle, and countless other insane moves that defy logic (let me run and dance...then stop...and then hit my opponent) would never have been created.
We can rag on Hogan for that, but he had creative control so he had the right to. Same applies to Bret, whether people think he should have laid down for Shawn or not.ReplyDelete
Which Shawn had agreed to as part of the worked "backstage feud" angle they started after WM12.ReplyDelete
It's too late to start quibbling about what "reasonable creative control" actually means when the wrestler in question is on his way out in an atmosphere of utterly poisonous paranoia and dislike. Vince should have clarified what it did and didn't mean right back during contract negotiations.ReplyDelete
We should start a new Survivor Series 1997 topic every week.ReplyDelete
We never get tired of talking about it!
I agree with this somewhat. It did just feel dark, as you said. But there was also this air of defiance. The company refused to apologize for killing off Bret. Moreover, they spat on Bret's grave. Even if times felt uncertain, they had "attitude" and were still very entertaining during those two dark months.ReplyDelete
The Rock had started busting that move out a little prior to this, IIRC. It didn't have the whackiness yet, just a brief pose and then a prolonged elbow drop. It was just a transition/near-fall move at this point.ReplyDelete
Yeah, the People's Elbow was just a fun spot for a good year or year and a half before it inexplicably became a finisher.ReplyDelete
I just remember seeing Rock and Shamrock go at it and thinking, "There's our future." And then, after seeing this ridiculously funny move where Rock runs the ropes twice before stopping and dropping an elbow, I remember thinking, "Maybe this guy has 'it' after all." Interesting times.
Yeah the run up to D-Generation X (PPV) is pretty lame aside from the small Austin-Rock feud they did, which had so much heat you would think it was a main event angle, but after that point things really start to get interesting again when Owen returned, DX got stronger, and Austin made it clear that he wanted to be WWF champion.ReplyDelete
Pretty bad show overall. Kane vs. Mankind wasn't--technically speaking--good but it did what it was supposed to do. Kane looked like a scary dude. He destroyed the guy who gave Undertaker trouble for a whole year.ReplyDelete
Agreed, I had that feeling at the time to. I was 15 and convinced that WWF was in trouble because all the good wrestlers were in WCW. But it wasn't just Bret - Davey left, Owen was off television for a month, Crush left, Rick Rude left.ReplyDelete
In retrospect it was like a sports team going through a rebuild - guys like the New Age Outlaws were nobodies that were all over television and The Rock wasn't anything special yet but once they got their "playing time" they came into their own. I thought by the Royal Rumble things were starting to look up - the storylines were starting to take shape, the guys they were trying to get over were getting over and just having 30 guys in the Rumble showcased the variety of characters they still had on the roster.
A 3 way title match put ECW on the map in 1994, even if it's aged terribly today.ReplyDelete
Why the down votes? It's true.ReplyDelete
Yeah, the Rock really started to come into his own in December. He started doing small things like wearing sunglasses, doing a hilarious gimmick of saying that fans wanted his opinion on hot topics like "peace in the Middle East", and his mic work really improved overnight. He started becoming a really entertaining part of the show when they started making him the focal point of the Nation.ReplyDelete
Bret's life really went to hell after this.ReplyDelete
Oh, it's DAMN true.ReplyDelete
I still *hate* that fucking elbow.
There was no reason for Luger to not beat Flair at the 1988 Bash.ReplyDelete
It's the blog's version of the Moors vs the Moops.ReplyDelete
I'd forgotten about the Steiners backstage reputation and what role it likely played in things - like in later years when Steiner went on random shoot rants on Nitro and Rick had a job every week.ReplyDelete
1997 Survivor Series:ReplyDelete
Bret was a jerk.
Shawn was a jerk.
Vince was a jerk.
Eh, he can't complain about the money he made. Not saying that's the end all, be all of being happy but not worrying about bills is a luxury very few have.ReplyDelete
Rick was also getting paid more than Flair remember. No matter what you think about Flair that's some grade A bullshit.ReplyDelete
I loved it pre-99 when it was just a cocky transition move.ReplyDelete
Two pieces of irony regarding SS97 that nobody talks about:ReplyDelete
1. Everybody loves and trusts Earl Hebner (Bret only wrestles the match if he is the ref; Shawn dedicates what he believes to be his last match ever to the guy) despite him being the ref at the center of the biggest "screwjob" in WWF history to that point.
2. The accidental booking that we got was the best possible booking of them all. Survivor Series '92 sees a young, but inexperienced Shawn Michaels fall to Bret Hart by the Sharpshooter. Five years later, Shawn has surpassed Bret, and finishes off the master with his own hold. Wrestling Shakespeare!
Makes sense. The build up to Taker and Bret was great and it had been a year and a half since the Bret vs Shawn had a match.ReplyDelete
As a business decision? Absolutely.
That's not the way big business works. Big companies lie to your face to get you to do what they want, then lawyer up and use the numbers game to their advantage if you decide to fight for your rights.ReplyDelete
999 out of a 1000 CEOs in the same position would have done the same thing. And the 1000th CEO would likely be in the process of being fired.
And, from a business standpoint, it's the correct thing to do. Vince and the WWF made out MUCH better than if he had gone with any of the "honest" methods that GentlemanJeff outlines below.
I'm sure that I speak for everybody when I say that I'm EXTREMELY disappointed that Scream09_HartKiller hasn't supplied us with any new excerpts from Bret Hart's autobiography.ReplyDelete
They can't HANDLE the truth!ReplyDelete
HHH was a jerk.ReplyDelete
Bret was gullible. He trusted someone he shouldn't have.ReplyDelete
What the hell are you talking about?ReplyDelete
Taking Vince at his word is liking believing your one night stand when she tells you she's on the pill. You get what you deserve.ReplyDelete
It's hard to feel sorry for the guy when he was making 3 million a year.ReplyDelete
I think Michaels said in his book that wasn't the case.ReplyDelete
A lawsuit like that could have held up his release and money he was owed by the company. Also he assulted Vince, so I'm sure if Bret sues Vince, Vince sues Bret.ReplyDelete
He lost by count-out. That's not laying down, really.ReplyDelete
And I think his last Raw match was a screwjob with Ken Shamrock.
Bret and Ken Shamrock were involved in some kind of screwy finish in a title match in one of the Raws leading up to this, so he could have been inserted into the match as well and done the job.ReplyDelete
They could have just made it explicitly a final four match between Bret, Shawn, Taker and Shamrock. Since the original FF match was everything that was great about WWE in 1997 that would have effectively sold the show all on its own.ReplyDelete
Bret's legitimate thoughts on Montreal are more hilariously ridiculous than anything I could come up with.ReplyDelete
My take on this, they were both unprofessional and should have been fired. Which is kind of how it worked out between one leaving the company and the other one wrecking his back 2 months later and going home afterwards. And the company was better off with both of them gone.ReplyDelete
Yeah, there was no way to know it would go that way at the time, but it worked out damn well for them.
I think Montreal was great for the wrestling industry as it planted the seeds of the Mr.McMahon character which lead to Austin/McMahon.ReplyDelete
As for Bret, he was too much of a mark. He should have went out and tried to have a classic match with Shawn to end his WWF career, and then went on to take on new challenges. He has a whole new company full of wrestlers to work with, more classic matches to carry people to, more titles to win because he deserves them more than anyone else, etc...he goes to WCW, does his thing there, and very likely ends up back in the WWF down the road, with more accolades to put on his resume and $9 million in the bank. He has his farewell run in WWF and has a job for life when he retires.
His WWF legacy was already sealed. He had classic matches, a great career, there was going to be a DVD, he was going to be celebrated....but in his mind WWF history would show that Shawn Michaels beat him for the WWF Championship twice and that means Shawn Michaels a better wrestler.
But lying to Bret wasn't Plan A. Plan A was asking an employee to do his job. When he refused to do that, Vince moved onto Plan B, which was fighting with said employee and trying to convince him to do his job. When that didn't work, it was onto Plan C, which was lying to him and making him do his job whether he liked it or not. It still comes down to Bret refusing to do his job and Vince doing what he had to do to make sure an employee did what he was supposed to.ReplyDelete
Yeah, the way it comes off in Shawn's book is that Bret and Vince were going back and fourth on how to get the title off him. Vince wanted him to drop it to Shawn, while Bret thought it was best to just hand over the title on Raw - which Bret himself says in Wrestling With Shadows. It's interesting because when he's asked what he wants to do it's basically "I won't lose to Shawn but I'll hand over the title on Raw", it's not "I won't lose to Shawn but I'll drop the title to Undertaker/Shamrock/Austin on Raw". It was apparent his preference was to hand the title over.ReplyDelete
I don't know if it holds up his release but it might delay his start date with WCW and then he's in limbo like Flair was in 1998 - plus with the assault and the ridiculousness of trying to figure out in court if making someone lose a fake fight breaches a contract and it's just not worth it.ReplyDelete
But hey, refusing to do your job and then punching your boss in the face for making you do it anyway - hell of a role model that Bret Hart.
You know what point Bret misses entirely? That even in WWF canon he didn't lose in Montreal. They didn't portray it as a clean win for Shawn Michaels, it was always portrayed as Vince McMahon ringing the bell and awarding the match to Shawn Michaels. Even on WWF television Bret Hart was the victim of a screw-job.ReplyDelete
It did more to protect him than any other possible outcome would have.
It worked out well for everybody. Bret Hart got more money than he deserved (and Hall and Nash got a raise), Shawn Michaels was put on the road to finding true happiness and a second chance at re-writing his career, and Earl Hebner got a gimmick for life.ReplyDelete
Well, other than the money, it didn't go great for Bret. But ugh, imagine 19 more years of him from that point forward? He would have been gone in a year or so either way.ReplyDelete
The sad thing is, Shamrock was hot as fuck for a long time. They eventually pissed all of it away. He felt like he could have been one of those HUGE stars, and it just never turned out that way.ReplyDelete
Bret's job was to wrestle. As to who he wrestled and whether and under what circumstances he won or lost; in practice that's always been fairly open to negotiation once you reach main event status.ReplyDelete
Roddy Piper wouldn't lose by pinfall to Hulk Hogan in 1985. Steve Austin wouldn't even work a program with Jeff Jarrett in 1998 or 99 (I forget which) because he didn't think Jarrett was on his level. Undertaker got the finish of his match with Brock Lesnar at Unforgiven changed to a DQ because he "wasn't feeling" the original finish. Shawn got the finish of his match with Bulldog changed at One Night Only for reasons that have never really been made clear.
The point is : Bret was not committing wrestling's unpardonable sin by refusing to agree to the original finish, he was doing what any wrestler with any clout has done since anyone started keeping track. And he had a clause in his contract giving him the right to do so if that wasn't enough for Vince.
It's the job of curtain jerkers to "do what they're told" like a trained monkey because they have no leverage, contractural or otherwise. For main evente'rs it's always been different.
He was only going to be wrestling for a few more years, most of his contract was an executive.ReplyDelete
Survivor Series 97. Do try and keep up.ReplyDelete
None of those guys were leaving the company in a week, while still holding the WWF Title.ReplyDelete
Truth Commission were mercs.ReplyDelete
I think it was more the fact that he didn't feel Shawn was deserving of being put over... given that he was an all-around jerk and said right to Bret's face that he wouldn't do a job for him. From what I've interpreted of Bret's recollection of it, he was fine dropping the belt to anyone but Shawn.ReplyDelete
Not saying he's in the right for what he did, because they could've booked a finish where Bret didn't look like a loser... but I think it's more who he was giving the rub to on the way out rather than because he won two WWF title matches over him, he was a better wrestler.
As for Zanadude's points... I don't think any booked finish could've had the wrestling industry turn out any better following the events of that Survivor Series. WCW's own incompetence didn't allow them to cash in on getting Bret like WWF did on the Mr. McMahon character, but interest in Bret was at an all-time high when WCW got him.
As Julie Hart pointed out in front of everyone!ReplyDelete
I liken it to wrestling's version of the Kennedy assassination. There will always be a shroud of mystery about it that lends to endless debate.ReplyDelete
I don't think it would be as big of a deal 15 years later if the documentary crew didn't film everything leading up to it and the immediate aftermath because we wouldn't be as familiar with the back story -- even though it was documented in the Observer and in many biographies/DVDs, the Wrestling with Shadows really made you feel a part of it.
I'm sad that I can't remember the first guy he pinned using it... I remember being aghast!ReplyDelete
For some reason I'm thinking it was Billy Gunn or someone like that during his face run in 99... but I don't remember specifically.
Yeah, he was aware he could be double-crossed... but trusted Earl Hebner not to do fast-count him or anything.ReplyDelete
But, in the doc someone (I think it was Vader) told him not to get put into any compromising positions... so I'm surprised he agreed to the Sharpshooter spot. But, if you notice, he tries to get out of it pretty damn fast... so it's not like he was going to sit in it for a minute to build suspense before he reversed it.
That's the whole "what is reasonable creative control" argument.ReplyDelete
I don't think it's reasonable to refuse to do the planned finish involving a world title change in the main event of a major pay-per-view.
That was the plan. They eventually worked each other into a shoot.ReplyDelete
I was a youngun around this time as well and to me at least even later when he won the tv title it felt weird cause he wasnt Scott Steiner, he was one of THE STEINERS.ReplyDelete
I see your point, and you're right about main eventers having a certain amount of say in what they do - but there's differences.ReplyDelete
1) It's usually a back and fourth to come up with the best scenario. Even if the wrestler wants to change things for entirely self-serving reason they'll at least try to make it appear as if it just makes more sense business wise. Bret is the WWF Champion wrestling his last match before leaving for WCW - there's only one scenario there that makes sense - anything else is blatantly self-serving on Bret's behalf.
2) Vince made his decision. Steve Austin didn't not work with Jeff Jarrett because he didn't want to, he didn't work with him because Vince McMahon didn't want him to. Austin might have gone to Vince and refused to do it and Vince might have let him get his way but if Vince McMahon saw significant money in Austin/Jarrett it's happening. Once Vince decided that he'd heard Bret's case and he still wanted Shawn going over Bret should have accepted that and done what every other wrestler would have been expected to do in that situation.
I believe he had creative control int he final 90 days of his deal.ReplyDelete
I agree with your point about Bret, but not your analogy on the child. I would either let him have his tantrum and then get in the car without getting what he wants, or I would have picked him up and put him in the car and still not given into him... your way is just going to make him more angry and cause more future tantrums.ReplyDelete
Was this the feud AFTER Ahmed joined and was then removed from the Nation?ReplyDelete
But why should Vince have to beg a guy who is leaving his company for more money to do what he's asking him to do? The WWF was going to be there after Bret left, thus Vince and those in charge wanted to take the company in one direction, with Shawn as its focal point. Why should they change their plans to accommodate someone who is leaving the company for the competition? How weak would they look?ReplyDelete
Was just going to type this. COMPLETELY different circumstances.ReplyDelete
That's a perfectly reasonable position to take, but that just explains where Vince was coming from. But it doesn't take into account that Vince gave Bret creative control, and that certainly means _something_, And it also just assumes that a lying screwjob was the only way out of it. As I've noted below, there were other options. Instead, Vince and Bret made an agreement and Vince didn't honor it.ReplyDelete
We all get in a lot of tough positions in business and life. You can't just say, "Oh well I'm in a pickle I better lie and hope that fixes it." I mean, you _can_, but it's not right and it's not ethical.
Talk about being at the right place at the right time. I wonder how the documentary came about, and really, why Vince allowed them to document everything behind the scenes, especially leading up to the event.ReplyDelete
1997 as a whole was so surreal and eerie. Haas work and shoot ever overlapped each other as much as it did throughout that year? Bret Hart's character was the eeriest of all. He spent the better part of 1997 being paranoid that Vince and the WWF was out to screw him over...and then in real life it winds up happening, live on pay-per-view.ReplyDelete
HBK said in his book that Earl Hebner didn't even know what was going to happen until he pulled him aside 5 minutes before the match and instructed him to ring the bell for the Sharpshooter spot. So when he promised Bret that nothing would happen, he meant it at the time.ReplyDelete
The Hart Family stands tall in their hometown at Calgary Stampede and a month later Bret wins the WWF Championship - either of these would have been ideal endings to the documentary. It's interesting that it continued on into what's usually a slow couple of months where nothing significant happens and it just so happened to catch one of the biggest stories in wrestling history.ReplyDelete
I always wondered how they could even finish and air it. I'm sure Vince would have wanted to have final say about how his footage was used, and they ended up using Raw footage from after Bret had left. Vince must have been okay with it.
Droz? It was on Raw during his mini face turn before Survivor Series.ReplyDelete
i bet backstage they had those lil' pickles... the gherksReplyDelete
can you actually hear vince yell 'ring the fucking bell!' in the original ppv feed? ive only ever seen the chv version and then subsequent rehashes of the footageReplyDelete
watching it, you can see hbk look over at vince a few times once hebner gets bumped. i also like how shawn acts all indignant that he has the title, and how brisco railroads him the fuck outta the ringside area like his life depended on it
which it probably kinda did in some ways
'Haas work and shoot'ReplyDelete
some peeps were wonderin' if all the roh stuff with charlie haas was a work or shoot
I guess that could play into the "it was a shoot" theory. Vince allows this camera crew to shoot everything knowing it'll be giving the WWF some publicity. It — in theory — helps Bret become what should have been the biggest babyface in wrestling. Something to think about, I suppose.ReplyDelete
I hate the elbow too, but it's not as bad as the 619. That could be my least favorite move in wrestling history.ReplyDelete
But he had creative control. So wouldn't he get to dictate when he leaves? The CC would have sunk him anyway when Rock and Austin and later Foley got mega over and he was dropped down the card.ReplyDelete
He a 3 year wrestling contract and a 17 year contract as one of Vince's right hand men. He had reasonable creative control over his last 30 days in the company, if his contract was ended shortly.ReplyDelete
You can hear Hebner yell it. You also get a "Shawn = fag" sign before the match. Classy.ReplyDelete
I wonder if this situation is why Vince now tries his damndest to make sure no wreslter, other than Cena, ever becomes bigger than the WWE name.ReplyDelete