Hey Scott,
So back in the day ECW provided a great place for WCW and WWF midcarders to revitalize their careers before heading back into the bigtime. You had Austin and Foley as the most famous ones, but guys like Al Snow, Bam Bam Bigelow, Sid, Rick Rude were able to freshen up their characters and up their worth with runs in ECW.
So let's say ECW or a modern day equivalent— a hot promotion that fans cared about, and smart creative that could crate compelling characters/angles to get guys over—existed now. (And no, NXT won't work, because it's too small scale.) Who on the WWE roster could most benefit from a 6-month repackaging in ECW?
My picks:
- Brodus Clay: Have him turn on Tensai and leave for ECW where he has a dominant run as a scary ass monster heel. Just suplexing motherfuckers through tables and looking pissed 24/7. (As an aside, I actually think they could make this work in WWE, with Brodus eventually turning heel and then getting Heyman as his mouthpiece.)
- Miz: I could see a heel Miz starting near riots in ECW arena doing a WWE shill invader act.
- Wade Barrett: Would get over as a bigtime heel or face in ECW if he just was able to act like a bad-ass and have some stiff epic brawls with the roster's tough guys.
- Cody Rhodes: Damn, now would be the PERFECT time for something like ECW to exist. A fired Cody goes to ECW, pisses on the WWE in promos, puts on some great matches, maybe wins their title. Would come back to WWE as 100x bigger star.
So what do you and the board think? Thanks!
Eh, to be brutally honest, most of the guys you've listed are severely damaged goods and not worth saving. Brodus Clay got completely exposed when he had to work longer than a minute and there's no point in rebuilding him when you've got a perfectly good monster in the wings like Alex Rusev of NXT. He's the guy who should be ripping shit up ala Taz, because you've got a blank slate to create whatever you want with him.
Anything that involves pushing Miz as this point is a waste of time. The window with him was open and then shut, barred, and the house demolished. He should stick with being WWE's media-friendly shill and stay away from the main shows.
Wade's fight club makeover was a perfect idea for him and I have no idea how they lost the thread on that one, but it would be great to go back to it and let him dominate in a smaller promotion, as noted. He could definitely develop into something with that main event brawling style, ala JBL.
I think Cody's capable of doing fine where he is, especially if the Rhodes v. McMahons thing works out as well as it looks like it might. Just as long as they don't bring in, like, the Nasty Boys and Shockmaster as backup or something.
What I really wish is that WWE would buy ROH, give it a decent budget, and then just leave it alone to develop talent for them. That way you could have a place for Ziggler to be a giant fish in a small pond, Cesaro to have great matches, etc. Kind of a stepping stone between NXT and RAW. You could use it to freshen up stale guys every few months and try out ideas that are too edgy for the PG shows. Plus then you'd have the tape library from ROH in exchange. It'd be win-win.
If Vince could be trusted with something like that, I'd support it 100%.
ReplyDeleteBut he has this issue with control... and squashing any potential "competition" when he feels like it/has the chance.
(For the record, the present seems to be a "doesn't feel like it" attitude for Vince.)
Kevin dunn would also fire all those unattractive on the roster, as well as those in the crowd. And poor Kevin Kelly would be out of job thanks to dunn again. I don't want wwe touching anything independent again.
ReplyDeleteI think the better question is who WOULDN'T benefit? You could make a case for every wwe midcarder being able to benefit from something like this.
ReplyDeleteA guy like Wade Barrett is a reason why the territory system is missed. If it existed, he could go somewhere else and headline, then come back and be over. Now, he is damaged goods, Scott said.
ReplyDelete"What I really wish is that WWE would buy ROH, give it a decent budget, and then just leave it alone to develop talent for them."
ReplyDeleteGood idea in theory, will never work in practice. For one, Vince won't leave it alone, and for 2, most ROH fans watch ROH because it's NOT WWE. Vince buying the promotion will kill it faster than Cornette or Delirious or Sinclair ever could.
Roh is essentially the EcW already and has been for a decade. Plenty of wrestlers have made it to WWE and TNA after working for Ring of Honor. The bussiness is better off with ROH remainkng as its own enity. WWE and TNA can just keep signing ROH wrestlers like they have in the past. WWE has been doing a lot of that now anyway. WWE would destroy ROH and probably hurt is as a potential developmental promotion.
ReplyDeleteRoh is essentially the EcW already and has been for a decade. Plenty of wrestlers have made it to WWE and TNA after working for Ring of Honor. The bussiness is better off with ROH remainkng as its own enity. WWE and TNA can just keep signing ROH wrestlers like they have in the past. WWE has been doing a lot of that now anyway. WWE would destroy ROH and probably hurt is as a potential developmental promotion. Also Sinclsir has the money to keep ROH running at its current level.
ReplyDeleteROH has always felt like the best of ECW. CZW was the stupid crazy brawling garbage and CHIKARA is the goofy fun stuff.
ReplyDeleteI think that NXT is pretty great right now. Sandow, Bray, the Shield, Cesaro they've been doing a good job developing guys.
ReplyDeleteYep, and everyone's got the internet these days, so you can't really keep the deal "secret", like they did with ECW. So, you'd just piss off the marks. They're better off running their own personal indy, which is what they're doing in Florida.
ReplyDeleteI think a modern day WCW would be more beneficial to everyone involved. Guys jumping back and forth made for high drama and kept everyone fresh. Plus the E is in desperate need of a serious #2 competitor.
ReplyDeleteOf course it would but no one is going to fund a wrestling organization enough to be a #2.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that he'd come back and be over because he headlined in a territory(s), it's that he'd be able to work multiple territories and learn a myriad of styles and then eventually come back more skilled and adept at getting himself over.
ReplyDeleteWhen the WWF was gobbling up the territory guys, a lot of them got over because they were skilled, not because they were recognized names from headlining a territory (not counting their home base, obviously).
If McMahon bought ROH, and not got involved in any way, shape, form or fashion (at least publicly) then I agree.
ReplyDeleteNXT is small scale? I'd argue more people watch NXT than ever watched ECW.
ReplyDeleteTNA's roster could use a new ECW in two months.
ReplyDeleteHaaaaaaaa-cha-cha-cha-cha-chah!
I'm hardly a Miz fan, but I think you're being a bit hard on him. Certainly there have been individuals who have had late-in-life career resurgences (Mark Henry and JBL being the greatest examples, and guys like Big Show and Kane being adequate examples of finding themselves legitimately back in the main event scene after long droughts). Miz is certainly capable of finding himself again.
ReplyDeletei can buy that.
ReplyDeleteThe "damaged goods" line is overstated. Wrestling fans have extremely short memories. Big Show went from jobbing clean to Jeff Hardy (who had JUST gotten out of the Hardy Boyz) on Raw to taking out the Undertaker and challenging Brock Lesnar for the WWE Championship on Smackdown. Mark Henry went from being fodder to a debuting NXT leader Wade Barrett to dominant World Champion in a year or so. In about the same length of time, Sheamus went from a monstrous losing streak to becoming John Cena's Smackdown equivalent.
ReplyDeleteIt's much easier to find examples of people being buried and then successfully being pushed strong than finding who truly couldn't recover from a burial. I'm not saying it's smart business to book anybody with an upside to be a loser, but I don't think it's a death knell.
The McMahon DVD had many glaring omissions, but he was spot in when he said "WWE has plenty of competition...in the entertainment industry."
ReplyDeleteWe all focus on the wrestling part, but in truth, it's a significant but small part of the big picture that they focus on. Having a strong #2 wrestling organization wouldn't change WWE in the least, because they have a huge they have a huge infrastructure in place that nobody could ever hope to duplicate, assuring that they will always remain #1.
So better to focus on the entertainment industry, where they will always have bigger opponents to strive to conquer.
Big Show was already known and over before he even got to the WWE though. Barrett came in as an unknown and is still not over. When you are over, you can afford to lose.
ReplyDeleteAs a heel, of course.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Vince would consider giving about ten indy feds across the continent free rings and promotional help in exchange for becoming part of a new territory system with the agreement that the big company can give and take talent.
ReplyDeleteHe would learn by headlining. He could work the crowd and back then, when a lot of wrestling was on TV, you could recognize these guys, unlike today. DGUSA, CZW, and Chikakra do not have TV and not many people get to see RoH weekly TV
ReplyDeleteVince would have to personally buy the company to keep shareholders and their idiocy away. Should be no issue
ReplyDeleteI would agree but Brodus is so awful in the ring that I do not think he can even do that well.
ReplyDeleteI think Vince would buy ROH just for the tape library and fold it. They probably see more value in the library than from anything they could get by keeping it going.
ReplyDeleteWell 4 minutes and he is the one that gets the hot tag. But I think Cameron should be the evil heel valet like "Woman" and Naomi goes solo in the Divas Division
ReplyDeleteLike a pet project?
ReplyDeleteThey kinda had something like this going about a decade ago, right? With OVW, DSW, APW, maybe more (but not quite 10).
ReplyDeleteThen they decided to abandon that idea in favor of the FCW concept which has now evolved into NXT.
Even though that system worked, and created tons of stars, I guess they really just can't handle not having 100% control.
I agree that ROH is eventually going to be bought as a tape library only. It's better days are really behind it, as all the guys with the best potential currently have jobs elsewhere. Also, Vince was at his best when he had WCW as his competition, but with that long gone, the best thing to do is, instead of another promotion cropping up and dying off, more focus needs to be on what you currenly have, and make it more compelling to watch. Creating a new star in someone like Daniel Bryan is a start, but he is one guy. You need to stop with the 50/50 booking and turn some heels and faces into monsters, and keep them away from each other, match-wise, in order to build to better PPV, which is a dying/dead model, but still a revenue source. How about jobber squash matches; or if that is not interesting enough, take your Superstars and Main Event regulars and have them make your chosen ones look good. Remember when we used to wait 3-4 months for two guys to go at it? That needs to be brough back
ReplyDeleteRVD would really benefit from this
ReplyDeleteWell yeah, but isn't that the point? That SOMETHING can be done and that he's not some lost cause.
ReplyDeleteGreat point.
ReplyDeleteI always felt WWE should buy up all the small indy promotions to keep them floating and once they get polished enough, travel the rest of the other promotions before finally getting called up to FCW/NXT for a final "polishing"
That when they get there WWE-approved gimmick/name, spend a couple of months learning the WWE style, then get called up.
Also it'd be a way to make the IS/US/tag titles important by having those champs travel to the podunk towns and learn how to work in smaller markets with niche fans.
They still are getting downsides from WWE but earning the little money from the smaller promotions, hopefully driving their business up because Kofi Kingston is main eventing
I think the only use he would've had for Brodus would've been in jobbing to Spike Dudley (like Viscera, P.N. News, etc).
ReplyDeleteBut Miz was never any good to begin with, unlike the guys you mentioned.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing if anything, Spike/Viacom will buy out TNA from the Carter family. And then they'll undoubtedly put Hogan and Bischoff in charge of the whole damn thing.
ReplyDeleteSupposedly Dunn is one of the people Triple H can't wait to fire when he completely takes over.
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame that 'the bar' has been raised so high. Being *ahem* "somewhat older" than most fans, I remember when Big John Studd and King Kong Bundy were the most feared heels in (then) the WWF. They never got a sniff of title matches, but week after week would DESTROY face teams before (deliberately) gettng themselves DQ'd.
ReplyDeleteA properly booked monster team is far more valuable than a 'good' team...
Brodus would have for sure been made into a Dudley during that era
ReplyDeleteSo Mark Henry was 'good' years ago then?
ReplyDeleteHe was pretty funny as Sexual Chocolate.
ReplyDeleteJack Swagger could definitely use a 6-month break for repackaging.
ReplyDeleteAre you a PR rep for WWE?
ReplyDeleteNo, but I would willingly become one if they'd send me free stuff.
ReplyDeleteGet rid of 50/50 booking, get rid of rematches, get rid of authority figures and get rid of the 20 minute in ring promos and replace them with 3 minute backstage promos in front of a green screen. There, staleness issues solved.
ReplyDeleteI can't wait for Dunn to get fired either. David Sahadi and Dave Lagana are so much more competent than him that it's not even funny.
ReplyDeleteAlas, they'd want creative control (or at least stick their nose into things), and would probably dump everyone who didn't fit the current mold or wasn't a second-generation star.
ReplyDeleteOh, absolutely. I was agreeing with you.
ReplyDeleteI love Miz, and think he's very unfairly maligned by most "smarks", but even I can say that his face run has been absolutely abysmal.