Hey Scott,
Giant fan. Bought all the books, love the ebooks and hope you're doing more in the future. Anyways I havea quick question for you.In the entire world, historically, what is the most prestigious wrestling title? Basically it comes down to the wwe belt vs the njpw belt right? Obviously for us in north america its the wwe belt. But what about in Mexico? Or japan? And do guys in cmll or AAA think NJPW is better than wwe or vice versa? I'm sort of assuming that became Vince has his promotion on TV everywhere the wwe is the most viewed so wrestlers are over the globe are the most familiar with it, thus they see it as the biggest league. But are there lots of guys who see the NJPW belt as a bigger deal because its less media driven?
Thanks for any insight you can shed on this.
I would presume that by sheer media influence the WWE title would be the most, but I'm far from the expert on it. Anyone in those other countries that can shed light on the subject? |
Being that the world is based around America (and you know it does), I would figure it would be the WWE Title
ReplyDeletePrestige is a funny thing.
ReplyDeleteThis is the debate over weather prestige is about the difficulty to win a title, or simply popularity. Less people watch NJPW world wide, but it means something to the company and it's fans. Does winning the WWE title mean anything anymore? You aren't a made man or even a temporary top guy--it's just a prop. Fuck, I don't buy it wholesale, but I've heard the case made the ROH title means more then the current WWE title since holding the belt means you ARE the main event in ROH (barring some massive blood feud paying off like Generico vs Steen). Counterpoint is most people watching raw couldn't tell you who the current ROH champion is, and it's a good one since we're talking about a scripted program.
I think the value of a title is in the eye of the beholder, really. Perspective is everything; twenty-five years ago, the Intercontinental Champion was one of the cornerstones of the promotion booking-wise, whereas now it's ancillary to a feud between a wrestler and a manager. The further away we move from wrestlers weaned on the more athletic-oriented, AWA/NWA-style product that was on display in the 1970s and '80s into the showmanship of the WWE/WCW/ECW troika of the 1990s, I think the value of the IWGP Heavyweight Title will be diminished. Of course, I reserve the right to revise the statement when people stop caring about the WWE title altogether.
ReplyDeleteI would argue that even if it isn't guaranteed to be the last match on the card, the WWE championship still carries appropriate weight. Or at least, it does again after Punk restored its luster.
ReplyDeleteReally? Punk's reign is when the title became meaningless to me.
ReplyDeleteEmbarking on an epic year long title reign? Fuck you Cena gets the main event anyway--even when he's wrestling JOHNNY FUCKING ACE.
What's the point of fighting for the title if you still aren't the best--the guy you beat for it is?
On that note--Sheamus' reign fucking killed the big gold belt as even a midcard title
The early part of his reign is stained with Cena's poopy boxers, but once he aligned himself with Heyman and went all heel, it was all gold.
ReplyDeleteObviously the most important belt is the Divas belt. That's why AJ got the date she won it tattooed on her neck.
ReplyDeleteIt also must be remembered that the IWGP title isn't always the most prestigious title in Japan. My understanding has the GHC title as being the grand prize while it was around the waist of Kobashi
ReplyDeleteI have some belts for my pants more prestigious.
ReplyDeleteNot to open this can I'd worms again but that still doesnt make Meltzers comments right
ReplyDeleteThis is a good question. I dont know enough about the history of NJPW to articulate an answer.
ReplyDeleteOn am unrelated topic...do we like or dislike Johnny Manziel? Im conflicted on whether to like him or not. Anyone who didnt lay the points with Bama is just leaving $ on the table.
I just wonder what like a kid wrestling fan in Japan thinks too. Does he even know who randy Orton or Daniel Bryan are? Do they watch wwe? Because realistically how many wwe fans even know who okada, tanahashi, or a fujinami are. But then again NJPW isn't really promoted here at all. And are lesnar and vader the only guy to win the iwgp and a major north american belt? I just find this very interesting.
ReplyDeleteThat would be the WWF Winged Eagle belt. Bring it back. Now.
ReplyDeleteWith no wrong answers, either. I'm surprised folks are irked at the open ended nature of the question. I'm not upset, just a little (0.o)
ReplyDeleteSo if say Randy Orton actually got banned from wwe (I say no way wwe ever does that no matter how many strikes he or rey rey get since its just an arbitrary self imposed thing but for the sake of the argument...) and he went to NJPW does he 100% go in as a top guy? Did Albert have to work his way up?
ReplyDeleteWell if you win the WWE Title you've reached the mountain top. Any other title win can't really compare to that in most fans eyes or most wrestlers either unless they're foreign born japanese/mexican wrestlers.
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean Miz > Kobashi. No! Hell No! Fuck No!
But the WWE title has been won by what? 44 guys over 50 years? Maybe 20-25 of those guys were the legit TOP GUY but i'd say you could make a case of a similar ratio for foreign titles too.
Albert was a tag guy, (which admittedly DOES mean something in Japan) so it's not like they went "hey you were a jobber in WWE, have the world title!!"
ReplyDeleteThe Ace Crusher is popular in japan so that works in his favor, but I just can't see Orton working Japanese style (I think Cena could thrive in it for the record)
MVP won the IWGP Intercontinental title pretty quick--but he always wanted to work in Japan more then in WWE
I'd say yes he goes in as a top guy. If he pulls any backstage shit or complains about so and so hitting him too hard than it could and would change instantly but if big lugs like A-Train,Scott Norton & Johnny Ace can make it as featured gaijins then i think almost anyone can as long as they can take the abuse.
ReplyDeleteCompletely random threadjack but...How often do you think female sports announcers bang pro/college athletes?
ReplyDeleteLike I know Ponder started dating one and now theyre married. If a story broke that Pam Oliver, Colleen Dominguez, or like Rachel Nichols has slept with over 200 pro athletes, would you be surprised? I dont think I would
Yeah he's been diligently reporting insider information for 30 years about an industry we are all fascinated by, and has been right about tons of shit and always finds out interesting info about contracts and money drawing, and brings it all to the masses for cheap... but he criticized a wwe diva you like so now hes just some cunt
ReplyDelete"Well if you win the WWE Title you've reached the mountain top"
ReplyDeleteExcept you haven't. You've reached the top-ish of the mountain
Another good reason to dislike hhh is that fucking brand split where they just had to have two fucking titles killed it. Then at mania 20 and 21 the new belt is a bigger deal. That always bugged me. They have done a great job of building it back up though.
ReplyDeleteYeah that's the thing about discussing Orton's potential in Japan,I don't see Orton taking the stiff Japanese style very well
ReplyDeleteYou make it sound like you're fighting some great crusade against the despicable evil. You're not John Smith.
ReplyDeleteWhen they go back to their hotels that night and look in the mirror, they know they've "made it" and fall asleep with a grin on their faces a mile long.
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean they're a bigger star than John Cena now? No, but that's like saying the newest Superbowl,NBA Finals or Stanley Cup winner isn't better than the 70's Steelers,90's Bulls or 80's Oilers thus they don't really count.
I went to China for a week with my parents when I graduated HS in 2000. I saw a large amount of kids wearing Stone Cold, Rock and other WWE stuff. I remember finding this really funny/weird.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if that translates to NJPW, and this was coming off a hot time for WWE business, but thought it was interesting
I'm a Wade Keller guy! Fuck paying for news, and Dave's website has been unadulterated shit for the past decade and a half unless you snicker pay.
ReplyDeleteHe's an MMA mark who barely gives a shit about the biz now unless it involves 2 guys damn near killing themselves in the ring for his amusement 5,000 miles away.
Never cared for that championship, actually. It always bothered me that it was dwarfed in size by the two only other championships at the time, the Intercontinental and Tag Team titles. The Big Gold Belt, to me, defines prestige. As far as WWE title designs go, I've always favored the Undisputed title, once they figured out the appropriate size.
ReplyDeleteI'm still pissed that Stone Cold threw it down in the ring to grab that horrific new title design in 1998.
ReplyDeleteGod that belt was ugly!
I go back and forth between the two. Ive been subscribers to both of them at some point. Keller is good though
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's just me, but the WWE title(s) feel like they've been slightly diluted in terms of value over the previous decade. I've been watching some New Japan lately and, despite the language gap, I get the sense that the title is somewhat important to those guys.
ReplyDeleteI also enjoy Shark Tank Meekin. Uncle Kevin is just fantastic.
ReplyDeleteI've been really into the song "Feel it All" by Canadian rock n' roll chanteuse Feist lately, and if I had the proper mixing knowledge, I would loop her warbled delivery of the line "Now I know I want to win the war" and listen to it continuously for roughly 2 1/2 hours.
ReplyDeleteWould wwe ever do a cross promotion show now a days with NJPW? My guess is maybe if they toured japan but probably not on tv here. I know theres plenty to shit on bischoff about I love how he would cross promote with international feds and frankly even though it was getting over non wcw creations it made wcw seem like a bigger deal.
ReplyDeleteWhy bother? Unless the WWE does Japanese tours that bomb at the ticket gate what's the upside for Vince?
ReplyDeleteOr New Japan for that matter? Cause you know Vince ain't having any of his guys laying down for another promotions workers in 2013.
If Brett Farve didn't AT LEAST make a pass at Rachel Nichols at some point, color me surprised.
ReplyDeleteThere is a reason that NJPW talent wrestles in ROH instead of WWE.
ReplyDeleteAnd it isn't because they are on the same level.
Id be SHOCKED if he didnt. I grew up in Philly and it seemed that Pam Oliver was always subtly throwing it at Donovan. Im truly fascinated by how this works
ReplyDeleteWell the upside is just that it might bring in some awesome matches, and could open up the jJapanese market more. And NJPW can get more eyeballs on their wrestlers. Obviously neither company needs to do it, but it would be pretty cool.
ReplyDeleteMaybe because some of them don't care for/like the road WWE travels down?
ReplyDeleteI heard a rumor back in the 90's prime time tapped that.
ReplyDeleteGot no doubts
ReplyDeleteOn this topic, he's an ass. In general... I don't really have an opinion either way.
ReplyDeleteUnderstand that people can have multiple views on the same person, depending on the topic.
For example: Barack Obama
Nice guy.
Average politician. (Which is more an indictment of our current government.)
Shitty president.
Kevin Steen christening a new Hardcore title on Raw that he defends in increasingly sadistic matches would be cool too
ReplyDeleteSo would Samoa Joe beating the fuck out of Cena un-anounced on the Raw he returns from injury at
I think the two things above have the same odds of occuring as a NJPW vs WWE show
Nice guy.
ReplyDeleteAverage politician. (Which is more an indictment of our current government.)
Shitty president
I'd say those three things cover what I think of Obama
If WWE wouldn't cross-promote in the mid-90s, during their weakest period... why would they do so now?
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand... no, TNA's too messy backstage to try anything like that. Would be like Crockett in Pro Wrestling USA, Bischoff as Crockett trying to steal any good talent.
When I was in Mexico last year the fans saw the WWE title as the most prestigious and it wasn't even close. Both the lucha feds were looked at as minor leagues relative to the E.
ReplyDeleteThey also view 20 dollar bills as "house" payments
ReplyDeleteIt's kind of incredible that the Japanese feds have managed to fend off the WWE and keep either NJPW, AJPW, or NOAH as the top dog when Vince has taken over everywhere else
ReplyDelete"Kevin Steen christening a new Hardcore title on Raw that he defends in increasingly sadistic matches would be cool too"
ReplyDeleteNo it wouldn't, he's fat! and looks like the kid who played Magic by himself in the school cafeteria!
Sabu putting the 1-2-3 Kid through a table in 1995 he aint.
Mysterio and Del Rio (and Eddie G) are responsible for most of that, I'd bet. And Sin Cara's failures might even reflect poorly on the luchas, and not on WWE for "changing him"
ReplyDeleteThat's 98% Japanese culture. They are VERY, EXTREMELY insular in most cases, and it only took them losing a World War to even consider other cultures as "worthy".
ReplyDeleteThey may have emulated the British Navy and German Army... but they always thought they could do it better, given a fair chance.
I'm not having the fat debate.
ReplyDeletewatch the Cabana and Generico VS Steen and Corino "Come as you are Chicago street fight" or the Fight without Honor from Final Battle 2010 and tell me Sabu is a better hardcore wrestler then Steen. He doesn't fuck up every other move and there's HATRED. A reason for the brutality, not Sabu doing an extra flip because it's EXTREME
The japanese loyalty code and their wrestling dojo system has a lot to do with that.
ReplyDeleteTheir guys work hard and take a lot of shit to make it! and when they do the thought of leaving so they can be the next Funaki doesn't seem very appealing.
It's shocking how well Barney Miller holds up. Even the fashion still works in a weird way, because they tended to avoid the wilder looks of the time. It's still dated, but not in a way that takes you out of the story.
ReplyDeleteSabu's got the look,name and persona and thats all that matters if you're gigging yourself every night and putting guys through barbed wire flaming tables.
ReplyDeleteI wont try and defend Sabu's innumerable botches and repeat the spot anyway shit shows but his upside if he really went for it in 1995 is miles higher than a indy geek 4 life like Kevin Steen.
OH MY GOD BAMA
ReplyDeleteI completely agree. I don't know if you agree or not, but another show that holds up and even still holds relevance over the debate over issues in the media? WKRP in Cincinnati.
ReplyDeleteWell, that has to be a fun game at least.
ReplyDeleteI've always though of WKRP as a 70's sitcom with a late 90's sensibility: they tackled sensitive and controversial topics without offering "easy" answers or broad generalizations, and (for the most part) avoided cliches and wild caricatures. For example, it's something that most people don't even notice but Carlson, Les, Herb and Venus are all conservatives each representing points on the spectrum. Most 70's sitcoms would leave the conservative point of view to the loudmouthed blowhard character (Herb) to make those views the butt of the joke, but when someone even-tempered and level-headed like Venus says that modern (for the time) TV is too promiscuous then the subject become more open for debate.
ReplyDeleteI'll fight that down voter!
ReplyDeleteVic Mackey is the greatest, I've only purchased 5 shows on DVD and the shield is one of them. (Ill buy the breaking bad box set when it comes out too) It just got better and better and Shane pulling a Benoit was one of the most fucked up scenes of all time. And it has the best ending of any episodic show I know of.
ReplyDeleteSee it now.
ReplyDeleteHe's basically your blog but as a musician
ReplyDeleteGreen and square. Green is better?
ReplyDeleteGood dunker in college I guess but that's about it
ReplyDeleteKobe...
ReplyDeleteTrue. I think you gotta judge them differently as prospects though. Miner was a 3 year (I think 3 year) college player so you pretty much know his game, and especially his talent ceiling. Kobe, as with most of those high school players, was a gamble on maturity, not as much in athletic upside.
ReplyDeleteIf Steen was allowed to have the match he had with Generico at FB against Sami Zayne on the undercard of some WWE show he'd get over. Steen looks like that fat guy who'd beat the fuck out of you at a bar. If I didn't know who either guy was I'd pick a fight with Bryan before Steen any day.
ReplyDeleteThe best part of the show is hearing what euphemism Mr Wonderful/Uncle Kevin is going to use to completely destroy someone who has probably devoted their entire life over the past few years to the business that they're pitching.
ReplyDeleteBTW has there ever been a pro sports draft better than the 96 NBA draft? AI, camby, starbury, Allen, Peja, Kobe, Nash, Antoine walker, Jermaine O'Neal, big z, d fish... glad my team took Todd fuller that year
ReplyDeleteBefore she got fat Rachel Nichols was collecting players like baseball cards even though she was married. She's been in the game for over a decade, 200 is a pretty low estimate.
ReplyDeleteWas he the big white goof from NC State?
ReplyDeleteYeah it started off great but all that fake Seth and Ashley shit is unbearable
ReplyDeleteJapan follows WWE TV and their merchandise is around. I can't say what company they prefer better but they're definitely better known than Japanese stars are in the US.
ReplyDeleteThat was a sick Draft. LBJs Draft was insane but 96 might have more talent depth from top to bottom.
ReplyDeleteAny documented accounts/rumors? She always used to get exclusives with LBJ somehow a few years ago. Always assumed they had an "agreement."
ReplyDeleteThe '03 draft may not have the quantity, but check out these names:
ReplyDeleteLebron, Wade, Carmelo, Bosh, Kaman, Hinrich, David West, Diaw, Josh Howard.
There was also really good role player types:
Pachula, Mo Williams, Kyle Kover, Steve Blake, Nick Collison, Luke Ridnour, etc, ,etc.
That's a pretty loaded draft.
I think Lebron is more a "quality" guy than "quantity" from the gossip I hear in Miami. Rachel Nichols is eh.
ReplyDeleteIt's also funny how that was supposed to be the official beginning of the Attitude Era, yet their new title design (with the bright blue strap) was tailor made for the Next Generation era.
ReplyDeleteI'm gonna disagree that jay-z isn't talking about bitches when he say ...and a bitch ain't one
ReplyDeleteAnd my friends and I always use the phrase "We'll see how smart you are when the canines come" thats a great quote that can sum up a lot of shit but I don't think he's calling back to in the chorus.
Lol yup. Hey say you want about the guy but he'd get you 4 point and 4 rebounds in every game...
ReplyDeleteGod, get your act together LeBron!! Why isn't he crushing huge quantities of great quality?
ReplyDeleteMisread that. Good job LBJ
ReplyDeleteProbably the best 2nd round ever with Williams and Blake etc (never would have thought blake would be the dude to have the best career out of that maryland backcourt)
ReplyDeleteBut I'd say a lot of the luster has come off josh howard, kaman and hinrich. People forget how good Walker, Peja, O'neal,camby and steph were when they came in. They would all be max contract guys off their rookie contracts if they came in today.
In 03 you've got Lebron Wade and Carmelo as locks for the hall of fame, and I guess Bosh. Out of 1996 you've got Iverson, Kobe, Jesus Shuttlesworth, Nash. I think O'neal might have a shot, and camby was just robbed by injuries and starbury was robbed by his own attitude and Mike D'antonio being a jerk off. I'd say 96 had more iconic players but then again I don't appreciate genetic freaks as much as appreciate guys who mastered basketball at an unbelievable level
I agree that Camby was a stud (defensively), but no way in hell would Walker, Peja, Camby or Marbury would be max players. No chance in hell (Vince!).
ReplyDeleteO'Neil is a different story. He was an awesome big man before injuries derailed him. Great post game, good mid-range jumper, really good shot blocker and adequate rebounder. He's a multi-time all-star. He, would easily be a max player today in his prime.
I do want to say that Josh Howard was really awesome for like two seasons and Ridenour and Hinrich are really underrated pro's but I don't think they can hang with the 1996 dudes. I was never much impressed by Diaw until this year (which might make me look back at him more fondly). I always kind of thought Kaman sucked (how can you be that big and suck at defense, it makes no sense) and West is a really good player, so no complaints from me on him.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to add, are you implying that Lebron and Wade haven't mastered basketball and AI and Marbury did? Those two, along with say Walker, were some of the most inefficient players ever. Kobe was great, but damn did he need to take a zillion shots to get there. We've had that argument before, so need to rehash it.
ReplyDeleteCamby should still be a HOF, because the basketball HOF takes college into account.
WTF happened to Howard? He was the 2nd best player behind Dirk on the 06 Mavs that made the finals. I know that he used to do a lot of weed and supposedly, that got him in major hot water with the league and the Mavs. I guess he didn't do as good a job at hiding it like most of the other NBA players.
ReplyDeleteUmass as a national basketball powerhouse...I'd vote for him based off that. He would have had an amazing pro career but for the injuries too. I'm only implying Lebron, like a shaq or wilt, is very very physically dominate and maybe not as skilled as others.
ReplyDeleteYeah he just stopped being any good all of a sudden. He was a much better version of Caron Butler. He was such a great defender at the swing spot and wow did he have an inside and outside game. Maybe it was the money, once he got paid he might have just been like "fuck it"
ReplyDeleteYeah, Lebron is a physical freak, but he may be the smartest player in basketball behind old-man Nash. He gets criticized for not taking the last shot, but really, he's just looking to make the right basketball play. Drive, kick to the open man type stuff. Funny how MJ never got picked on for doing the same thing in the finals (and other times) more than once.
ReplyDeleteBTW, Lebron is getting married in SD next week. That should be one helluva party. I heard everyone from Jay-Z to Riley will be there.
Well lets put aside the fact that they all got huge contracts (just a different time in the league) and look at that:
ReplyDeleteLets basically say after their third or 4th like now they would be negotiating the deal. Camby was a big man for one, so they always get paid. And he had a near double double average in toronto while leading the league in blocks his second season. His third year he was hurt. If Serge Ibaka got 12 mill a year, camby gets the max deal.
MJ hit plenty of big shots before he passed the ball to Paxon. I don't really fault lebron for passing off but really the best shot his him just taking it.
ReplyDeleteIf you're telling me Camby is 100% healthy, you may be able to budge me off my spot. It never hurts building around a defensive freak like Camby used to be.
ReplyDeleteThe fat guy who'd be the fuck out of you at the bar.
ReplyDeleteThat's not going to put butts in the seats.
Well after this third year the Knicks wouldn't know for sure how fragile he was yet. I think he gets the max deal. Also your forgetting how good Starbury was on the Twolves when he say he wouldn't get a max deal today. He was coming off a 21 and 9 season and his shooting % on 2's and 3's went up each year. Plus he was the 2nd best player on an expansion team that made the playoffs. He would get a max deal in a second today (now would that team regret that...). Eric Gordon got a near max deal, steph would have gotten a 5 year franchise player deal for sure
ReplyDeleteWell, there's no telling sometimes. There are a lot of dumb GM's, but whatever Marbury did in Minnesota, that was because of the benefit of playing with Garnett. You play with a big man the quality of Garnett, you appear way better than you really are. Also see: Shaq.
ReplyDeleteI thought Steph and Walker got max deals at a point?
ReplyDeleteIf they did, I'm guessing it didn't work out so well. Goes back to my dumb GMs theory.
ReplyDeletehmmm...well some guards got even better without shaq
ReplyDeleteBut your using a little hindsight here. At that time lots of people thought that steph was making kg better. Also that 2nd year in NJ he averaged 24 and 8 and shot 45%, this dude could fucking play. He had an effortless three point range and the deepest range of any guy at that time including kobe. I don't really know what went wrong on him (bad spot after bad spot combined with a shitty attitude) but after this 4th season there would be tons of teams throwing a max deal at him
ISAIAH THOMAS anyone?
ReplyDeleteThey totally did, and so didn't peja and camby and O'neal. But i'm saying in todays market where the NBA fucked the players over in the CBA and now the guys don't get paid like they used to.
ReplyDeleteWho got better without Shaq? I'm talking good Shaq, so from his rookie year until he left Miami for Phoenix. He was shot at that point. And do not read me points as a measuring guide. Efficiency counts! Taking a million shots to average more points a game doesn't make you good. There's a long list of guys like Ricky Davis who took a bunch of shots and led their team in scoring and then went to a good team and were exposed.
ReplyDeleteAll those I brought up got paid. O'neal got a 130 million dollar deal and starbury cleared 150 mil in pay. Also Peja got 65 million dollar deal and we all know what happened to Walker and his 100 mil
ReplyDeleteMarbury was a terrible 3 pt shooter and so is Kobe. Deep range? Where did you get that stat? Made up stat!
ReplyDeleteImagine if MJ, the owner, hired Thomas as GM? The universe would implode.
ReplyDeleteHow about a long list of guys that won back to back titles after he left. Is that a long list?
ReplyDeleteNeither is Kofi Kingston.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't mean he doesn't have an upside
By watching him play. Also he was a career 33% 3 pt shooter thats very good for guys who actually play and take shots (apples and oranges to a role player that just catches and shoots)
ReplyDeleteOr the team would at least implode when the owner and gm get in a knife fight in the parking lot.
ReplyDeleteAlso in what world does efficiency matter. Basketball isn't like baseball where stats basically tell everything. If you get the ball with two seconds on the shot clock is it more efficient to shoot it or pass it? If your choice is to pass the ball into Kwame Brown or a Keith Van Horn or take a tough shot, whats the better play? The way to win is to get more points than your opponent. You can set all the screens and make all the right passes, someone has to score. I'm pretty sure that Kevin Martin won't ever be winning shit but he is efficient. No one has to sell me on the sabermetrics revolution in baseball but football and basketball are team sports with too much teamwork required to really measure by anything other than wins and losses really. Also yes, Lebron can get lay ups all the time, but other players can't do that so they have to shoot the ball, and sometimes it misses.
ReplyDeleteI actually like the new CBA. I think the top guys like Durant and LBJ are underpaid. Wall Street Journal did an expose a year ago on what LBJ would be worth on a completely "open market" taking into account what he brings to the city, the heat, tv deals, merchsndising etc. And they said hed be worth 75-80 million PER YEAR.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with the old CBA is there are only really 10-12 "max" guys that can carry a franchise. Then You get one dumbass GM, looking at you Isiah, that overpays an Antoine Walker to be one of these guys and then the market is set. All those mid level guys, Walker, Camby, Damon Stoudemire, end up getting paid like top tier guys.
Theres few things in the sports world that give me more joy than USC guys being busts in the pros
ReplyDeleteHere's my litmus test for the worth of a belt.
ReplyDeleteImagine every single wrestler in the roster as the holder of that belt. Those that you say to yourself "lol no" are not worthy of that belt.
So where's the cut-off point for each belt?
The WWE title for me...the cut-off is Bryan. He's the least "made" of all the guys that could hold it without me scoffing and saying "lol no". That list is Cena, Orton, Punk and Bryan.
So, if could play along with my test. What's your cut-off point of the "worthless" WHC?
I completely missed this. Could you give me the rundown my Meltzer's comments?
ReplyDeleteYeah I completely disagree that the new CBA is good. Guys like Durant and Lebron can't even negotiate a salary or get what the market will bear, they can only get a slotted exact salary based on their years in the league. Thats total bullshit. I don't know exactly how much cash kobe brings into the lakers every year, but I know paying him 30 million per season is fucking rip off. Then it gets rid of the entire NBA middle class, basically you either are a max guy, a mid level exemption guy, or a minimum contract guy. And its funny how I had to hear for years how much money the warriors were losing and how bad I should feel for this poor ass owner and then the team is sold for 10x what the guy paid, and twice what they claimed it was worth in the CBA. Honestly I love the NBA but they should have said fuck you to Stern and held out for years if they had to. They got fucked over.
ReplyDeleteAnybody taking Alvarez at plus 500 tonight?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure of any of that... but I would make it my business to make it in the NFL if it meant I got a shot at Jaime Maggio.
ReplyDeleteAverage politician? I'd actually say he's pretty good. Average politicians don't become president.
ReplyDeleteNow I'd completely disagree with the nice guy status. He's an authoritarian who's ordered the assassinations of a good amount of people. Now me personally that's what I think a president should do. We had a nice guy in Carter...and he sucked.
AJ Lee got a tattoo commemorating the date she won the Divas title. Meltzer called her an idiot because she revealed herself to be a "belt mark" and the company will manipulate her by promising her title reigns. He said it would be different if it was a guy and the world title, but because its a joke belt the people in "THIS BUSSINESS" are just laughing at her.
ReplyDeleteIt's important as a wrestler to make it seem like you don't give a shit about anything other then money apparently
Well look, Steen has a way better body of work than Sabu as far as basically work rate goes, but Sabu was the first guy on TV doing a lot of that shit, and his spots were fucking awesome. I think Steen is the better worker, but Sabu is definitely the dude I would hire (if this was 1996) for my hardcore promotion (if I had one)
ReplyDeleteTerry Gordy was a fat guy that was awesome, obviously his WWE career wasn't much but he was a big star, and I would argue maybe the best big man worker.
ReplyDeleteAhem...how exactly do you play Magic solitaire?
ReplyDeleteIf you're running a hardcore fed and both guys are in their primes, why not just hire both...
ReplyDelete:p
Fat guys have a long history of kicking ass in Pro Wrestling!
ReplyDeleteI agree with pretty much everything you just said and believe the owners pretty much lied about their financial woes to get out of a shitty previous cba, from their perspectives. I like it primarily because it institutes a harsher tax penalty for repeat offenders, which should in theory generate greater parody within the league. I do like the fact they slotted the mid level guys...serge ibaka at 12 million seems like a fair price for him
ReplyDeleteI'm a stereotypical cheap scumbag promoter
ReplyDeleteKevin Steen looks like Joel Gertner's illegitimate son and the only thing he could beat me in is a hotdog eating contest.
ReplyDeleteHe ain't ever making it to the show.
Dude 100%, I get that Steen doesn't look great but theres really no question that hes an excellent worker. I absolutely think he goes to the wwe at some point, and probably does ok
ReplyDeleteWow thats an interesting bet. I just assume Vegas is dieing for action on alvarez
ReplyDeleteDudes big and he can work, he can definitely get to the wwe. Worst case scenario is he could play a big fat heel
ReplyDelete"He ain't ever making it to the show."
ReplyDeleteI'm not arguing that he'll make it, there is ZERO chance he gets signed. Where we will have to disagree is that he has the skill set to get over if he was given the chance to strut his stuff
I don't know, If Chris Hero is too fat...Steen looks like he eat Hero...
ReplyDeleteRight now the one I'm using as floyd at -200, and an Alvarez knock out at plus 1500. I know how awesome Mayweather is but I watched this dude fuck up Kermit Cintron and Sugar Shane, so I could think of worse things to do with a 100 bucks than put it on this fight
ReplyDeleteThe Wire is probably the best thing I've seen counting movies. Don't let anyone tell you its not great dude
ReplyDeleteI know Dougie has some history around but I don't really the point in this other guy...but then again I probably am too shallow to understand the deep artistic types
ReplyDeleteHow is there zero chance he'll get signed. Didn't Davey Richards just get signed.
ReplyDeleteChris Hero might have been the one that fucked that up though. The wyatt family is fat, and they can't work a match.
ReplyDeletePlus he's pushing to get us into another war.
ReplyDeleteSo what games are you looking at for tomorrow? I love the Eagles at -7, the chargers won't know what hit em, the Saints on the road only giving 3 to tampa bay, and honestly, as a life long niners fan, I am ready to bet the farm on the cowboys getting 3 points in KC...sorry Alex Smith your fuckbag game manager
ReplyDeleteThe 'I Beat Cena' championship is the most prestigious.
ReplyDeleteSo Albert/Tensai is an "elite" star? Carlito?
ReplyDeleteWait, so what are you betting?
ReplyDeleteThats what I call my dick
ReplyDeleteI'm gonna just throw a Benji down on Alvarez I think, so yeah.
ReplyDeleteBut I'm saving most of my betting energy for tomorrow. I might even take Mayweather in a parlay also, so I'll just go both ways I think
ReplyDeleteRumor has it he will be signed, along with Edwards.
ReplyDeletenothing is in ink
...
ReplyDeletePoint taken, Steen could wrestle circles around Bray Wyatt
I mean he's a solid hand for sure. And he's not like earthquake fat. And he's not short. I think he definitely make it in WWE, but then again I was sure Mistico would too
ReplyDeleteLOVE the Saints. Gonna do some combo of teases on Atl, Chicago, Packers and eagles.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, never played it. I was too busy in high school hitting on girls...and failing.
ReplyDeleteOk I'm in on Alvarez at plus 500, and I just did a parlay with Mayweather, Dallas, and New orleans. I'm going to definitely be making more football bets tomorrow anyways but I like mixed sports parlays
ReplyDeleteYea, something like this id prob go alvarez also. Like why even bother betting floyd -200 unless youre throwing down alot of money. Better off just taking a shot on alvarez
ReplyDeleteHow about philly minus 1, NO plus 3, and Dallas plus 9...thats a nice teaser and it gets me plus 160 odds
ReplyDeleteYeah I can't really go past -120 on a bet anytime
ReplyDeleteGood luck man. Seems like your badically hedged on the fight. I havent followed alvarez thay much but all the talking heads seem to think hes got an outside shot
ReplyDeleteThat's why, even Assiris/Dougie is the bigger culprit, he does contribute things here from time to time. I have found myself on the side of Dougie on many discussions. Bucky just comes here, does the anti-smark gimmick, and runs back to NPP to tattle-tale. He's a little bitch and after seeing him and his blog, he's in no position to critique anyone around here. He needs to just stick to NPP...
ReplyDeleteSkill Set means NOTHING to the Fed. As long as you know the basics aka have a year in the biz then you're set.
ReplyDeleteThen they don't even have to bother de-programming you in NXT and build you back up to learn WWE style which is miles different than indy super tombstone piledriving on the ring apron style.
In WWE land you get to have 12 moves or so with a few flourishes and taunts to go along with them and that's pretty much it and that's how they like it. That they have so much elite talent than can disguise these limitations is a testament to how talented the top workers in the WWE are.
In WWE land you get to have 12 moves or so with a few flourishes and
ReplyDeletetaunts to go along with them and that's pretty much it and that's how
they like it. That they have so much elite talent than can disguise
these limitations is a testament to how talented the top workers in the
WWE are.
Which is what pushed me away from "the Fed" in the first place.
I atribute X-Box failing in Japan more to them not giving a shit about FPS then insular culture. Windows for PC is still #1 in Japan
ReplyDeleteThey had a chance to be WM 2000 or No Mercy... they prefer being WWF Raw or WWF Royal Rumble.
ReplyDeleteWith HHH being such a "student of the game" (or whatever) and a fan of Flair, I think if we were gonna see WarGames we would have by now. The Evolution era made the most sense
ReplyDeleteSERIOUS BUSINESS
ReplyDeleteGod, the people involved with wrestling are all such children sometimes. And Meltzer is being a stupid cock with comments like that.
The I beat Hogan championship is actually very exclusive.
ReplyDeleteI thought the Syria deal was somewhat resolved?
ReplyDeleteAnd he also got us out of a war...so another check in the "Actually a pretty decent president" category.
He got embarrassed by Putin on the international stage and thank god for that, otherwise, we would've dropped bombs. He put himself into a corner and was given an out, but either way, he looked like a putz.
ReplyDeleteTainted by Billy Kidman.
ReplyDeleteEverybody wins here. Syria doesn't get invaded by the US. The Syrian people don't get melted by anthrax (or whatever they were using). Russia gets to look dominant. And the United States doesn't get into a war and also gets what we wanted (no more gas).
ReplyDeleteI fail to see how this is a bad bit of diplomacy.
I know that she got the tattoo...which is pretty cool IMO.
ReplyDeleteBut wow Meltzer...way to be a dick. First of all...don't we want the wrestlers to act like the belts matter? Yeah the divas belt doesn't have a great lineage, but this is how lineage's start.
And did Meltzer criticize John Tenta for getting the shark tattoo? Cause that's equally if not way more stupid than getting a date tattooed on your neck (when you have long hair).
Fuck you Dave.
By accident, everybody wins, I agree. Personally, I want nothing to do with us getting involved in another war, in any shape (boots or no boots). That doesn't change the fact that Obama looked like a putz. It can be both, it's ok, no one will yell at you. ;-)
ReplyDeleteDid you see this tattoo though? Yikes...
ReplyDeleteI agree that the tattoo isn't the most attractive I've ever seen. But yet again, it's covered by hair, so I don't think it was meant to be attractive.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'll give her points for originality. It's not another fucking kanji or tribal tattoo.
It's cause you didn't play magic.
ReplyDeleteDat nerd pussy yo.
Yeah, I have zero problems with the idea of the tattoo, but it's easily one of the ugliest things I've seen. She could've done some cool font script numbers for the date or something...anything.
ReplyDeleteAccident or not, nobody is getting invaded or gassed.
ReplyDeleteI actually don't know what's more frightening. Believing that everything that happens in politics is an accident or a result of some plan.
*cue X-Files theme song*
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm personally of the opinion that tattoos don't look good on women of AJ's complexion at all.
ReplyDeleteBut I still wouldn't give that ugliest tattoo. I'd have to be somebody from TNA. The other AJ...or maybe Mr. Anderson. Wrestling has had some awful tats.
But the jagged lines I just don't get it. I like the idea of roman numerals, but go full classical with it.
Muta and Chono both held the NWA World Title while it was still in WCW after the WCW World Title had split off from it, if you want to count that.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the Kidman thing was a clean win, therefore does not count.
ReplyDeleteWWF Title > WWE Title
ReplyDeleteI was messing with you since you didn't say pinned Hogan. Now THAT, is an exclusive club.
ReplyDeleteFoley got over for taking the insane bumps. Steen aint takin those bumps and the wwe aint the same company it was 15 years ago to book those type of bumps.
ReplyDeleteSteen makes it to fcw and gets cut cuz he is too fat.
Strangest member: Arn Anderson?
ReplyDeleteI have to go point by point:
ReplyDelete1: No way in HELL Obama tries to get boots on the ground in Syria. His plan looked similar to Clinton in Bosnia, bomb them and bomb them some more.
2: I've put the over/under on the next Syrian chem attack at Jan 1 2014. And I think I'm optimistic on that one, especially if this leaves the public eye soon.
3: Fuck Russia.
4: First part, good. Second part, not so fast.
It's mainly bad politics. Say one thing, do everything BUT what you said. Either Obama should've STFU on Syria, or backed what he was saying, even if only half-assedly.
But, as for bad diplomacy... all it tells other countries is that whatever balls and moral authority this country once had is not around now.
I want to put this part seperate, as it's kinda off to the side.
ReplyDeleteAs for what the U.S. should be doing in foreign policy: Enough backing these two-bit dictators and nitwits around the world. Support the countries we're bound to either historically (Great Britain along with others), or by treaty (Israel (I think), Taiwan, South Korea, Germany are the main ones there).
Everyone else: As long as you don't screw with us, or any of our allies, we won't fuck with you. Want to end the world? Just try us. However... any "aid" you were getting from us? Yeah, say goodbye to that.
As for the U.N.: Fuck them. Useless diplomats too busy polishing their next grandiose speech or their leader's cock. (Or pussy, if that's the case.)
China/Russia/"friendly hostiles": Hey, as long as you don't screw with us or our friends, we'll get along fine. Want to play hardball? Maybe we need that kick in the ass to remind us who we could and should be.
I can't even finish the X-Files, just because I know that nothing gets resolved. What a fucking cocktease of a series.
ReplyDeleteI fail to see how one incident bones our reputation. We survived Bush after all.
ReplyDeleteAnd may I just mention about Syria...if there was ever a time for the United Nations to do something, that was it.
The UN's hands are tied because of Russia. The security council is a sham.
ReplyDeletePlus I think Arn is one of the few who can say he defeated Hogan in back to back weeks.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise strangest member; I'd go with Jacques Rougeau.
I don't argue any of that. Disclaimer was that Steen has to be allowed to show off what he can really do (I provided a couple of examples)
ReplyDeleteI think he'd flop in wwe, but not because he's less talented the fuck-ups like Miz
I get that there are complexities to pretty much every single unsolved issue we have (that's why they're unsolved). But I really wish the UN worked.
ReplyDeleteWow...um, I know I shouldn't be feeding the trolls, but racism isn't cool.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if some of it is proximity and language. Presumably it's easier for Mexicans to get WWE broadcasts in Spanish than it is for the Japanese to get the E in Japanese.
ReplyDeleteI thought that too, but the people I talked to couldn't give less of a shit about Del Rio. They were all Cena and Orton fans. Just one person's experience in one city, so a pound of salt is needed, but interesting if that does happen to be a representative sample.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good call
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Japan is very weird about certain things, and they like things done their own way- it's one of the few places with a serious animation business when most of the world was dominated by Disney's stuff (except with Don Bluth was killing it with his films). Though the WWE's cartooniness started to reflect on the super-serious Japanese product at times, if I'm not mistaken.
ReplyDeleteThough they're a polite culture, they have a VERY in-bound sense of national pride and a sense that outsiders are REALLY outsiders. They don't necessarily HATE a lot of them, but the always find them quaint, and will always consider them separate. The fact that Japan has a CRAZILY in-depth system of titles, honorifics, rules and regulations doesn't help, and helps to keep outsiders out.
Nothing other than Deadspin and that level of reporting. It's one of those stories that a lot of people talk about like it's a fact but due to the slut shaming culture nobody's going to put their name on it.
ReplyDeleteI don't remember LeBron being on the list. Seemed like it was all football players rumored when I heard about it.
I don't think there's alot of crossover between WWE and NJPW. From what I've heard, WWE has it's fans in Japan but they only like WWE-style pro wrestling/sports entertainment.
ReplyDeleteAnd NJPW fans are more serious and into it for the "sport" of it.
Wow, how to ignore most of what I'd said and then give him the same credit I was already giving him.
ReplyDeleteMe: "...the most well-connected writer in the biz..." "He works hard, his information is terrific..."
You: "Yeah he's been diligently reporting insider information for 30 years about an industry we are all fascinated by, and has been right about tons of shit and always finds out interesting info about contracts and money drawing, and brings it all to the masses for cheap..."
Your whole defense of the guy is built around things I already acknowledged.