I'm going to throw you 2 different ideas.
You gotta give me what you think (or thought) would have been better for (future) business.
Sort of like the Quick N Dirties Scott gets from time to time, but WITH A TWIST!
1. HBK/Bret II @WM13 OR Austin/Bret @WM13
2. Goldberg/Nash @Starrcade 98 OR Goldberg/Hogan @Starrcade98
3. Raven jobbing at Wrestlepalooza 97 OR Raven going over at Wrestlepalooza 97
4. Jericho
5. Hogan/Koloff WM2 OR Hogan/Bundy WM2
6. Hogan/Piper WM OR Tag Match
7. Slaughter/Hogan @WM7 OR Heel Warrior/Face Hogan @WM7
8. CM Punk returning 3 weeks after leaving with the title OR CM Punk coming back after a Royal Rumble, while Cena is "fake" champ.
9. Taz never signing with WWF OR Taz leaving in '99
10. Blog Otters OR whatever you can think of in 10 seconds.
1. Austin/Bret
2. Shit, at that point, I guess Hogan/Goldberg. Goldberg didn’t really need the belt.
3. Dreamer, wasn’t Raven already going to WCW after the match anyway? Gotta try to put the guy over who is staying. My mind is a little foggy about that time period.
4. Holding off until December 2001.
5. This one is tough as the WWF already had Sheik/Volkoff as evil heels but Bundy wasnt exactly the greatest. I guess I will just go Bundy as even in 1986, the evil stuff was starting to become tiresome.
6. The WM tag match. The whole celebrity involvement with Mr. T was money. That nade sure that WrestleMania wasn’t a disaster.
7. Heel Warrior vs. Hogan. Slaughter hadn’t drawn anything since 1984 and him as the Iraqi sympathizer wasn’t going to boost business in 1991.
8. Punk coming back after the Rumble. Stretching the angle out longer would have really worked out better.
9. Taz never signing with the WWF. He was a better fit for ECW.
10. Whatever I can think of in ten seconds. I thought of BoD Nation in three seconds and I would take that, even as lame as that sounds.
I know that we've beaten this topic to death, but I have to say once again: No WAY should Punk have been kept off of TV until January. The guy was the hottest thing going at the time, you don't keep him off TV for six whole months.
ReplyDeleteDid they bring him back too quickly? Yes. To me, they basically shot their load too soon, not allowing the full gravity of the situation to sink in, and making Punk look hypocritical.
Personally, I think they should have run Cena/Rey (or even Cena/Rey/ADR) at "Summerslam", and then have Punk either return immediately after the match or the next night on "Raw".
Props to the emailer, not Jesse Baker level good, but thought provoking.
ReplyDeleteNumber two and seven are extremely interesting to me. Was Hogan/Goldberg ever on the table at Starrcade 97? I remeber the rumor was Hogan would be the first to beat Goldberg.
Yeah, people complain of the stupidity of putting Goldberg/Hogan on free tv. but I think that a rematch between the two could have still drawn money, but WCW never pulled the trigger on that one, probably due to the headache involved in getting one of them to job to the other.
ReplyDeleteWe should be called the "BoD Squad."
ReplyDeleteIm in the "they should have saved it for ppv" camp but understand the rationale for putting it on tv. That being said, yea a Hogan Goldberg rematch still would have drawn huge if they built it properly. I remember the rumor was Hogan only jobbed on tv because he wanted to show the Atlanta Turner executives he was still a huge draw and he was promised hed bed the one to end the streak.
ReplyDelete2. Goldberg should have beat Hogan for the belt at Starrcade and chased him that fall. How was Starrcade not in the Georgia Dome?
ReplyDeleteThey could tease it out until he returned at Surivor Series even but given the two choices, the Rumble was better, in my opinion anyway
ReplyDelete1. Austin/Bret. That was instrumental in making Austin, and I don't think that HBK/Bret would have been any more fun.
ReplyDelete2. Goldberg/Hogan. Nash blows.
3. What? I see Tommy Dreamer's name in some responses and so I'll say Raven, because Tommy Dreamer and his pants should always lose.
4. I don't remember the time frame well enough. Whenever he got screwed over by HHH, he should have had a rematch and a convincing victory shortly thereafter.
5. Bundy because even as a 6 year old I knew that USA vs Other Country was pretty weaksauce. Although it doesn't really matter, it could have been Iron Mike Sharpe at that point of Hogan's run.
6. Tag match. How can you rebook something that kickstarted 30 years of success.
7. Heel Warrior. Slaughter was not main event caliber at that point, please see answer 5 above for USA nonsense.
8. Three weeks. You can't keep your hottest act off of TV for months just for kicks.
9. Taz never signing. What a wash he turned out to be.
10. Doombringers.
I go back and forth on the Punk return fairly often. Yes, from a creative, whats the best angle possible, keeping him off tv till say Survivor Series or the Rumble would have been better then what we got. Being in Vinces position though, how do you keep him off of tv for that long though? You have the hottest act in awhile, that can draw you money, all the while as you cement him as a top level act. A bird in the hand...
ReplyDeleteMost of these are pretty simple answers but I'll play along
ReplyDelete1. Austin/Bret because it lead to the most successful run of any character ever
2. Goldberg/Hogan
3. Didn't follow ECW at the time so can't accurately respond
4. 2000. I feel like they make less of a mockery of him if they do it then
5. Hogan/Koloff
6. The tag match... unless you still have Mr. T and the other celebrities involved in the match somehow
7. Heel Warrior Face Hogan
8. Coming back after the Rumble... though he should have been kept on the air with "Unofficial footage not recorded by WWE" every so often in the meantime
9. Never going to WWF
10. Fucking anything else... dumbest shit ever.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=otter
ReplyDeleteI agree with this completely. You give it a few weeks of build up to make the Night of Champions really important with Punk-Cena to determine the "real" champion. SummerSlam main event of Cena-Rey is still pretty good, since it never happened before.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't dream of keeping Punk - at his hottest - of TV for months, but an extra couple of weeks would have been OK.
No way they could have held off that long. Goldberg was already the guy in June of '98 and fans were as into him as they were gonna be by July.
ReplyDeleteThey should have done the RE-MATCH at Starrcade as planned with Hogan losing and being kicked out of the nWo by Steiner and the rest of them as a result. Then Nash vs. Goldberg @ Superbrawl before a feud with Bret.
"3. Raven jobbing at Wrestlepalooza 97 OR Raven going over at Wrestlepalooza 97"
ReplyDeleteWhy in the hell would Raven winning that match even be considered?
... there's a distinction between tall hairy fat guys and short hairy fat guys?
ReplyDeleteTurns out I'm an otter.
These are great. Bravo, sir.
ReplyDelete1. Austin-Bret, especially with the benefit of hindsight. HBK-Bret II made plenty of storyline sense and I suppose you can always have Austin-Bret for the title after WM...but that Austin-Hart match seemed like the ultimate "right place, right time" match.
2. Goldberg-Hogan is the higher-profile match and would have served as the a proper blow-off to the nWo stuff. Personally, I think a double main of Goldberg vs. Sting and Hogan vs. Nash makes the most sense, but that wasn't your question. :)
3. Raven jobbing. Dreamer needed to win at some point and Raven was on his way out.
4. At the time, I thought HHH vs Y2J for the title made sense for SummerSlam 2000. In fact, I think you have Jericho carry the belt til the end of the year and drop it back to HHH, who can drop it to Austin. Rock wins the Rumble and challenges Austin for the title at Wrestlemania, instead of the other way around. Pay off Austin's return and revenge on HHH, then play up the WM main as Rock getting his moment in the sun. That way, when Austin goes heel it has even more impact in terms of screwing Rock over.
5. Hogan-Koloff for sure. I think that would have been huge at the time.
6. The tag match needed to happen in order to draw that mainstream interest and solidify Wrestlemania as a major event. I think they could have done Hogan-Piper at WM2 as the final blow-off, if they could have gotten Piper to lay down clean. (Leading up to the event, have Piper injure Mr. T in a big dramatic beatdown angle, forcing Hogan into a one-on-one match and putting the title on the line).
7. Warrior-Hogan II makes a lot of sense, although I think it could have happened at SummerSlam '91 as well, in effect giving us both matches. (After dropping the belt to Hogan at Wrestlemania, Slaughter plays Hogan/Warrior off each other. Warrior says he's the only guy Hogan hasn't beaten and that he still has to prove himself. Hogan-Warrior II at SummerSlam)
8. 3 weeks. Punk was the hottest commodity around at the time. Taking him off TV would have been foolish. It would be like taking Goldberg off TV in spring '98 when he was building momentum. I'm on-board with the idea of Cena vs. Rey for the vacant title at SummerSlam. Punk returns as the true champion and demands a match with Cena. (Doing Cena-Rey gives Punk some good promo material too: he can bring up how WWE made SummerSlam all about their two kid-friendly merchandise movers rather than who the BEST really was).
9. Taz leaving, since we know ECW was on its way out anyway. He didn't set the world on fire in the WWF, but there wasn't much left in ECW for him. Honestly, I think it's interesting to ponder how Taz would have done in WCW '99/00 as opposed to WWF. WCW was on its way down too, but Taz might have been interesting there and stood a better chance of getting pushed than in WWF
10. oh TAG
Exactly. I don't know how you keep Punk off TV with the momentum that was building at the time. As an aside, this blog would have been skewering Vince for his shortsightedness had he kept Punk off TV during that run. NO ONE would have been praising the "creative" element, only claiming how much they were denying Punk a chance at being top guy or how stupid they were for not cashing in on him while he was hot
ReplyDeleteI'm with you on the USA vs. Foreigners thing, although I think Nikita is the guy who can get it over on the level of Hulk vs. unstoppable monster...not just USA vs. Russia.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I've wondered about that too. If they knew Georgia Dome was going to be such a huge house and they planned on doing a huge main event....why not make that a PPV instead? They could have had "Great American Bash" at the Dome, instead of just Nitro
ReplyDeleteIt was the right time to pull the trigger on Goldberg being champion, but I think Goldberg-Hogan should have been the dream match held on the shelf for later. In hindsight, it would have been better if someone else was champ and could drop the belt to Goldberg. Maybe if the belt stays on Savage that spring, instead of the 24 hr reign? He can drop it to Goldberg, then Hogan starts pursuing "his" belt again?
ReplyDeleteExactly. Even if the result we got ended up blowing goats, they HAD to cash in on Punk's act right then. I think keeping him off TV for a few weeks works just fine. But waiting til the next year? That is the kind of stuff we would have blasted WWE for
ReplyDeleteTotally agree. In kayfabe and reality, Cena vs. Mysterio is the ultimate "fan-friendly", good for business, "for the kids" match to run in Punk's absence. Then you bring Punk back with the "real" belt to call WWE out on just that fact.
ReplyDelete1. HBK/Bret 2 would have been one of the biggest matches of all time and the most memorable if during the finish, Hart turns heel and Owen/Davey help him win.
ReplyDelete2. Hogan as champ vs Goldberg
3. Dreamer jobbing. It was part of the appeal to always see Dreamer lose to Raven
4. Neither. Jericho always looked out of place until 2008 being world champ.
5. Koloff would have been treated like just another monster of the week against Hogan so it wouldn't have mattered much.
6. Piper/Hogan would have been funner and more epic but I don't think it makes WM the huge hit that the tag match made it.
7. Neither. Warrior/Savage should have been for the title.
8. I would have kept him off TV longer than that.
9. Taz leaving. He would have been fine in WWE if the Radicals never jumped. They basically took his spot.
10. Blog Otters is fucking terrible.
Yeah, that was really the only one that I waffled on a bit.
ReplyDelete'Warrior/Savage should have been for the title.'
ReplyDeletespeaking of, what exactly was the reason for the retirement match behind the scenes? savage needed/wanted time away from the ring but they wanted him to stay on tv? he was legit going to cut back but they decided the angle with jake lent itself to him geting back in the ring?
was watching a chv from 24/7 the other day and they had a match with savage less than a week after wm vii, and the announcers (forget who) explained that savage was simplky fulfilling a contractually obligated match that was signed ahead of time (not unlike with the losing peeps from the nVasion).
so obviously he was still going to wrestle at leas for a bit after hte wm vii angle, but since he never really went away, i'm curious why they did it in the 1st place (he could have lost and had the same effect in terms of turning face, courtship wih elizabeth, etc)
It was just an angle. They set their shit up way in advance back then.
ReplyDelete1.) Austin/Bret
ReplyDelete2.) Goldberg/Hogan
3.) Raven winning.
4.) Didn't matter. HHH was gonna make him look weak. Keep it the way it is.
5.) Hogan/Koloff is given proper time to build and he brought Ivan with him to run amok in the tag ranks afterwards.
6.) Tag match had to happen
7.) I think Slaughter was the better choice.
8.) Punk needed to stay gone and even defend the title in "indy" feds like NXT or anywhere he could go that had an agreement with the WWE.
9.) Taz should have stayed because his gimmick didn't work in the WWE and I don't know how they would have repackaged him wrestling-wise. (Maybe "Team Taz" where he managed TWGTT or something. Could have done a knockoff Varsity Club gimmick and got someone over. Too bad Santino wasn't available at the time.)
10.) Doesn't matter. It's not that serious.
WCW was weird about sticking to locations for PPVs. Starrcade was in Washington for three years after being in Nashville for the previous three. Fall Brawl was always in Winston-Salem. Halloween Havoc was moved to Las Vegas for years. SuperBrawl was always in San Francisco (or one year just nearby in Oakland).
ReplyDeleteYou'd think that they'd save the huge Georgia Dome for Starrcade to truly make it their Wrestlemania, but that's probably another sign of the company's misplaced priorities. To WCW, Nitro was the BIG show, not a PPV.
1) Awesome as Bret/Austin was I would have LOVED to see Bret/Shawn II.
ReplyDelete2) Goldberg/Hogan, might have been the shot in the arm WCW needed.
3) Never watched ECW, don't think it would have made any real difference.
4) Meh. It's Jericho, the most overrated wrestler of the 2000's.
5) Hogan/Koloff. It's the Reaganite 80's, the "Real American" vs the "Russian Nightmare", it's a license to print money.
6) The tag match. Piper would probably have refused to job anyway,
7) The quick end to the Gulf War took all the wind out of Slaughter's sails, so Warrior/Hogan II.
8) He probably did come back too early, but RR might have been too long to wait. I don't know, Survivor Series maybe?
9) Again, I don't think it makes any difference.
Regarding 8, I agree wholeheartedly. I thought it was stupid how Cena got the match against Rey the same night Rey won the fake title. It made Rey look like an idiot and Cena look like an opportunistic heel.
ReplyDeleteHBK/Bret II would have much better for business in the short term, but would have probably killed things with the shit finish you'd have to put on to make either of them agree to do the match. I don't think it would have created an iconic moment like Austin/Bret, which both Austin and Bret were able to latch on to and develop their characters.
ReplyDelete1) Austin needed that match, HBK didn't.
ReplyDelete2) Almost anything would be better than what they did. Hogan by default.
3) He was leaving
4) Jericho couldn't win after the Hebner angle because Trips was about to lose it to Rock. And then get it back, and Bikertaker was on his way, etc. Kind of clever blue balls booking. Could have replaced Angle's run with Jericho, but Angle needed it more.
5) Both are cliches. I think the big fat guy cliche worked better.
6) I think someone already mentioned it, Piper doesn't job. They could have had Mr. T at ringside in some form and had roughly the same thing, but then it would be some DQ schmozz.
7) I think I'm the only person that liked that Sgt. Slaughter run. It was so controversial they had to have it indoors and sell 40,000 less tickets or someone might have blown the show up. lol. I don't know if heel Warrior vs. Hogan works, BTW.
8) They could never book it properly if he was gone more than say, a month, the fan cam stuff wouldn't look shooty after awhile. The comic-con thing was a good start but there was only so much further they could go. Also how Punk could do any PR and keep kayfabe going would be rough, these guys can barely write point A to point B.
9) What's the point either way. If he stayed he'd probably just take some sick bump and be retired/crippled by it. For Tazz it was a no-brainer, he's had steady work since.
10) I was scratching my ear. Earwax. Still better.
I think he was taking time off to be with Elizabeth, since their marriage was falling apart. That's also the reason for their on-screen Wedding, I believe.
ReplyDeleteI like it, except I get the feeling that *someone* is gonna jump in and start calling us BoD Squadders. Can't let a "good" creation die, right?
ReplyDeleteI'm more of a bear. And see, now I kinda have to wonder where he was going with that...
ReplyDeleteIt made him look like he had a pathological need for the title. It was slightly awkward.
ReplyDelete10) BoD-ydonnas. Made it just under the wire at 9 seconds.
ReplyDeleteAgree. It kind of flew in the face of the whole "anti-bully" thing (Not to mention wasting a potential money match for SummerSlam). Rey's appeal is in being the "little guy who can beat big guys", so having Cena beat him immediately after winning the big one wasn't entirely different from the various 'travesty of justice' MITB cash-ins (Edge on Cena in '05?)
ReplyDeleteThey must have thought it would have added a more personal edge to the feud or something. I agree though, it was a little strange to add the stip if he was just going to keep working afterward
ReplyDeleteFair point on #4: with Angle's rapid rise, maybe there was previously more interest in a Jericho title win on WWF's end? Once Angle caught fire and they decide he was getting that push right away, it kind of put Jericho aside. Which I'm pretty OK with, because Kurt ended up being awesome
ReplyDeleteYeah, assuming you can get Michaels to even job, the Bret-HBK re-match probably just ends up being Bret getting his win back and getting chased by Austin for the title, post-WM anyway. No telling though if that Bret-Austin finish happening at the next In Your House would have been as effective though.
ReplyDeleteI like #5 for sure. Having Ivan around would have given Nikita something to do following the loss to Hogan. A strong heel tag team perhaps, or Ivan berating Nikita over the loss to provide a catalyst for Nikita's face turn?
ReplyDeleteEn route to WM2, you could have Nikita be the monster of all monsters for a year prior, injuring all the fan favorites, like JYD, Hillbilly Jim, etc. and generally being the scariest fucking guy ever, en route to facing Hogan.