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BoD Daily Update

Undertaker's Next Opponent for WrestleMania?

As of now, the current plan for Mania will have the Undertaker go up against Brock Lesnar, provided he is healthy enough to work a match with him. According to Meltzer, Brock was either going to face The Rock or the Undertaker.

Credit Dave Meltzer, Wrestling Observer Newsletter



Who Paid for Kurt Angle's Rehab?

The WWE paid for Angle's rehab. WWE Policy about rehab is that they will pay the bill for anyone who was under a contract with them as long as it is for drugs or alcohol.

Credit Dave Meltzer, Wrestling Observer Newsletter



Ricardo Rodriguez Update

As of now, Rodriguez is written off of TV and will become a regular on NXT, with the idea that he will be called up as a wrestler at some point.

Credit Dave Meltzer, Wrestling Observer Newsletter



WWE.com "Where are they Now" Segment with Ken Shamrock

http://www.wwe.com/classics/wherearetheynow/where-are-they-now-ken-shamrock-26158097

Comments

  1. I think I've reached a point where I don't want to see 'Taker in any more brutal brawls. Dude's done enough, and he clearly only has a handful of matches left. I'd rather see him in a good wrestling match with Cena instead of an MMA style brawl with Brock.

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  2. 1. I'm surprised they waited this long. Didn't Taker want to work with Brock from the beginning?
    2. Good for WWE and good for Kurt. Does anyone know what his contract looks like with TNA? I wouldn't mind having Kurt back in the WWE for one last run. WWE seems to really not mind bringing people back to the fold if they think that they're clean.
    3. And good for Rodriguez.

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  3. I'd much rather have cena/taker and punk/brock 2.

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  4. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 24, 2013 at 8:13 AM

    I agree but I can live with Taker/Brock. Have Lesner kill him with a few F5's in the leadup and make it seem like Taker can't beat him.

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  5. Can Taker even take an F5?

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  6. good point. strike F5, put Kimura in its place.


    It also just feels like a weird feud to me because Taker and Brock exist in different levels of pro wrestling reality, whereas Cena vs undead cowboy makes perfect sense.

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  7. That's the thing, I think the best use of Brock is the knockdown dragout
    brawls full of big power moves and hope spot/cutoff back and forth
    action. (see: Cena, Punk matches)

    I worry a UT/Brock match with
    Taker's broken down body is going to end up like the Triple H methodical
    snoozefest brawls since he may not be able to take a lot of Brock's
    offense.

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  8. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 24, 2013 at 8:30 AM

    Well maybe not on a table but a few inside the ring would do just as well in building Brock up as a killer.

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  9. I like this use of Rodriguez. Maybe they can get him some seasoning and do the revenge angle with Del Rio.

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  10. If Taker faces Brock, isnt it inevitable that we then get HHH vs Cena for "control" of WWE. PLEASE, anything but this Vince. PLEASE.

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  11. Taker: If that's the case, The Streak continues.
    Angle: WWE might do stupid shit. WWE might do awful shit. But they can do the right thing, and often do. Even when it's not their responsibility anymore.
    Rodriguez: Del Rio, say bye bye to whatever little heat you had left. Prepare to become the Mexican Orton.
    Shamrock. Coincidence? Probably.

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  12. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 24, 2013 at 8:38 AM

    Ugghhh, I fucking hate hate HATE the idea of Lesnar vs Taker for so many reasons.
    - There is ZERO doubt in the outcome. Lesnar is doing the job, and there's nothing they can do that would convince me (or I'd say 99% of the audience) otherwise. Smarks know that Taker isn't losing the streak to anyone but maybe Cena, and for everyone else...well, it's not like Lesnar is some unbeatable monster. He's already lost to Cena and HHH (at MANIA no less.) Why couldn't Taker beat this big lug?
    - Lesnar-Taker would be a shit match, pure and simple. At this point both of these guys need to work the same exact style, which is being the big monster that the opponent bounces off of.

    - Lesnar/Taker means no Taker/Cena, which is the most interesting match WWE could do at this point. Give us THAT MATCH.
    - Lastly, Lesnar/Taker means that Punk doesn't get his win back against Lesnar, which is just so incredibly ridiculous. So the ONE guy that Lesnar goes over is their most popular wrestler who is counted on to draw on TV and house shows year round? THAT is the guy who straight up loses a Lesnar feud, meanwhile Lesnar gets used to put over Cena, HHH, and Taker? Oh, and then I assume Rock gets to beat him at some point too.

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  13. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 24, 2013 at 8:40 AM

    Again, it just blows my mind that Punk was used as canon fodder to build up Lesnar so he's nice and strong to job out to UNDERTAKER.


    I wish this goddamn guy would just retire already.

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  14. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 24, 2013 at 8:42 AM

    Lesnar/Taker
    HHH/Cena
    annnnd a Rock concert!


    Plus Bryan vs Punk for the IC title on the pre-show!


    Well, at least the Raw after Mania should be good.

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  15. Dont forget a special, only for WM XXX, Pete Rose vs Diva champion match.

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  16. Given all of Shamrock's financial issues, I've always wondered why he never gave it another go in WWE or TNA. He's enough of a name to add some value, but wouldn't cost much.

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  17. With Kane getting "reboot push" #905 by coming out and tombstoning Pete.

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  18. Well, according to Shamrock at least, nobody wanted him.

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  19. You realize that Orton has plenty of heat right?

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  20. So, can we please stop acting like Taker v. Cena is a "lock"?

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  21. Sure he does... X-Pac had plenty of heat also during his X-Factor days.

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  22. This is the plan for wrestlemania. Unless something else happens. And if something else does happen, its not because he was wrong, its because they 'changed their minds.'

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  23. Well, a change of mind on Taker/Brock would not be a bad thing. It would be a good thing.

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  24. You cannot possibly be comparing the two.
    I get that you don't like Orton. I'm not a fan of his myself. But he has gotten heat pretty consistently as a face or a heel during the past few years.
    And kudos for not addressing my points in the Hogan/Warrior thread.

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  25. I haven't been back there since early this morning... sure, I'll play along for one more post.

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  26. Of course, the plans for Wrestlemania change between October and April. They obviously don't set everything in stone, especially when WWE if often seemingly booked on the fly.

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  27. I don't like insert wrestler x so I'm going to say he has X-Pac Heat.


    Laziest argument

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  28. I really want Angle and WWE to be on good terms because 1) I love Angle and 2) I want a bad-ass Angle DVD/Blu-ray set

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  29. Yeah, I'm confused. Just a couple weeks ago weren't we "clearly" going towards Taker/Cena?

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  30. Taker v. Cena has never been rumoured or hinted at. It's just that people think it's the most obvious match, because it is,and decided to run with it.

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  31. He was pretty bad in his TNA run and that was 11 years ago.

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  32. Orton is over. Whether you like him or not, the crowd responds to him. That goes for when he is face or heel.

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  33. Where is Scott on this one? Is he still convinced it's Cena vs. Taker, like he's been saying for months?

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  34. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 24, 2013 at 9:30 AM

    Why do I get the feeling that the only way the blog would be happy is if Wrestlemania was a 4 hour iron man match between Punk and Bryan for the unified championship, and even then they would just complain that Cena is going to take the title on Raw the next night?

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  35. Dont forget AJ's needing to be involved too.

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  36. That's my point. There has been no indication that it's even a possibility, yet people were talking about how it's a clear cut, obvious thing.

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  37. Who's ready for Rock/Cena III: Electric Boogaloo?

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  38. We would be happy with Cena/Taker, not much else besides that tho.

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  39. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 24, 2013 at 9:38 AM

    Way to set up an extreme that nobody is asking for.


    If you're referring to the negative comments on this thread for Lesnar/Taker, I'd say it's that people on this blog, such as myself, are sick of Mania being a circle jerk to keep matching up and putting over the same small handful of guys that have been around forever.


    The fact that Undertaker, Cena, and HHH went over in the three main events of a Wrestlemania in the year 2013 is just ridiculous and does nothing to move the product forward. (And based on the buyrate drop-off from the year before, it's not like the mainstream public was gobbling that up anyway.)


    I mean, if they go with say HHH vs Cena and Taker vs Lesnar as the main events for this year, is that something that YOU really want to see? Is that an interesting card that sets up a great year of TV coming out of it?

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  40. Not only did no one want him, but companies actively worked together to make sure no one hired him.

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  41. That doesn't rhyme.

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  42. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 24, 2013 at 9:45 AM

    Yeah...actually I would love to see that.

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  43. Rock/Cena III: Electric Jamboree?

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  44. I'd buy that for a dollar.

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  45. Reminds me how for several years in a row, people kept acting like Punk vs. Austin was a lock.

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  46. the Ruthless Aggression would be off the charts!

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  47. IF it actually plays out to be Lesnar-Taker, maybe we get the show closing Cena-Punk final chapter.

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  48. Yeah, I'm overstepping on that one.

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  49. If they did a 180 on PG, and had Kane tombstoning Divas Dudley style from 2000, he'd get some of the biggest pops of the night,

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  50. Your_Favourite_LoserOctober 24, 2013 at 9:59 AM

    bad news for scott: vince wants sami zayn to stop being so sami zayn-ey

    http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/301664/Sami-Zayn-Reportedly-Doing-Things-Vince-McMahon-Doesnt-Like.htm

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  51. Can you imagine the pop for a double chokeslam on the Bellas. Damn I want to see this now

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  52. Rock/Cena III: Turtles in Time

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  53. Really? Wow. I mean, to each their own, but that just sounds unwatchable to me. Lesnar/Taker would just be bad and plodding with no drama at all in the outcome, and Taker just slaying a monster who has already proven to be very slayable.


    And you think that this whole HHH power trip storyline should be a way of giving Cena the final win? Really dude? And where's the heat in that match? You'd have HHH as the ultimate heel going against... a guy that the entire Mania crowd would boo anyway. It's a mess, and it ends with John Cena going over again as a babyface getting booed out of the building. Months of HHH going over the roster to get to THAT outcome?


    I mean, you really don't want to see them even attempt to put some new guys over in the main matches?

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  54. Why the hell is Cena/Taker so damn hard to manage

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  55. That was IV. III was Manhattan Project, which would've worked last year, strangely enough.

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  56. I hate the idea of Lesnar/Taker and feel it's a waste of both of their time at this point... but if the rest of the card is Cena/Punk say for the WHC, and HHH/Bryan for the WWE Title, then the card looks a whole lot better.

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  57. Look at his name... what do you think?


    (Not a shot... just sayin'.

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  58. Movies dude... movies.

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  59. Why is Brock-Undertaker a thing? They met several times during Brock's first run and, while that was 10 years ago, it's hardly a "dream match". Undertaker-Cena happened too, but not in any high-profile way and certainly not while Cena was one of the top guys in WWE history. Cena vs. Taker is the last big "dream match" they have left (at least in terms of semi-active guys--so no Austin). Lesnar would stand no chance of winning and that is the only appeal of the Streak matches at this point--the possibility of someone ending it.

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  60. Totally agree that Lesnar-Taker has little appeal. I WOULD certainly be down for Cena-Punk and HHH-Bryan though, so I guess it's worth it? Otherwise I'm thinking it's Cena-Taker, Punk-Lesnar, and HHH-Bryan and I'm great with that as well

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  61. They are two very big stars. Trying not to channel Triple H here... but putting your biggest starts against each other is a smart move for your biggest shows of the year.


    You could space out all the part timers into individual matches/programs... but history has shown the people want stars to fight stars... even on an indy show. I have no knowledge of the indies these days, but if you book John Morrison & Shelton Benjamin for the same show... and they are your biggest stars of the card... they should have a match... not be in separate matches.

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  62. Your_Favourite_LoserOctober 24, 2013 at 10:15 AM

    i think WM has gotten too big for its britches. although its still a spectacle, its not as special as it used to be

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  63. That's a pretty sick card right there. Throw in Sheamus/Orton, a sweet Shield 6-man (maybe against Jericho/RVD/Christian, something like that) , Cody vs Heel Goldust, maybe Ryback/Show with the big shellshock-on-Show spot, and I dunno some kind of multi-man match with everyone else and it's a pretty damn awesome show in my opinion.

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  64. I'd actually prefer Lesnar/Taker over Cena/Taker as it would definitely be a more physical, unique style and challenging match. I think the formula Taker has used since the first HBK match has been repeated in every match since and it is a little tiresome and predictable IMO (though obviously still produces great matches). The result is not in question as the streak will never end so I'd rather we got a really cool and different style brawl at Wrestlemania than your standard wrestling match.

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  65. Or, Rock/Cena III: Solar-Powered Jamboree, to be more current

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  66. I agree that they are both big stars. Two of the biggest. But I'm not advocating for the alternative to be Brock Lesnar vs. Ricardo Rodriguez, and Undertaker vs. Santino. Undertaker-Cena makes all the sense in the world and it is THE biggest "dream match" available. Aside from their "rookie Cena vs. veteran Taker" matches in '03, they have not met in any meaningful way, while there are mutiple Brock-Taker PPV matches from back when they were younger and more athletic. I'm not saying the match would be bad or not worthwhile, I just don't understand why it is WWE's choice for a Wrestlemania "Streak" match. That's all. If Brock-Taker was their only high profile match possibility, then by all means do it, but the alternative could easily be Taker-Cena, Brock-Punk, and Bryan-HHH without any fantasy booking necessary

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  67. Is probably going to be Brock's last Wrestlemania match maybe?
    Or maybe Undertaker has said he would rather wrestle Brock than Cena?

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  68. "Aside from their "rookie Cena vs. veteran Taker" matches in '03, they have not met in any meaningful way..."

    Gonna be that guy...


    Aside from their "rookie Brock vs. veteran Taker" matches in '03, they have not met in any meaningful way...

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  69. Yeah, that's absolutely a fair point. I just would contend that "rookie" Brock was the WWF champ and headlining the ppvs against Taker. The Taker-Cena match was mid-card stuff.

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  70. Yeah, it could be that simple for sure. Maybe Taker just WANTS to work with Brock? Although I don't see why he wouldn't want to close the show with Cena

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  71. Sorry, but Brock v. Taker seems zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz to me.

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  72. He could always close with Cena next year... the Brock window may be shut after April 2014... never know with that guy.

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  73. Taker/Lesnar matches headlined two straight PPVs, with the title on the line, on of which was a HIAC match.


    Taker/Cena was totally midcard, when Cena was a completely different guy then he is now. (Lesnar meanwhile, is exactly the same act. He even still has the same manager.)


    So I'd say one of those has a much more "seen it before" feeling than the other.

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  74. Going into business purely for myself here...


    ... but if Triple H gets to continue his "best for business" storyline, then he needs to conjure up someone to beat Undertaker at WM. He knows he needs to use his resources to reach further than the WWE universe... and we get the return of...


    Hollywood Rock.


    Hollywood Rock vs Undertaker to close the show... and of course Undertaker wins because he'll never lose at WM.


    Marks.

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  75. Good point. Maybe they want to cash in while Brock is here and know that Taker wants to continue on to WM31?

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  76. If it is indeed Brock's last WM match, I would much prefer seeing him put someone over on his way out though

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  77. Because Cena would lose, Taker wins, Crowd cheers and goes home happy. Cena believes the cheers are out of respect and he goes home happily deluded. Assuming the Divas show is finished by then, Cena can then break up with the Bella and get her fired. Then Brie can quit and Bryan can be punished and sent to the Midcard so ermm...hmm. Cena / Orton...Eh.

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  78. Yeah, that's kind of my feeling too. Brock-Taker have had main event matches before. Sure, it was a decade ago, but in "Brock Lesnar WWE time" (2002-2004, 2012-present), it was one of his most prominent feuds.

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  79. You're stretching. It's been a DECADE!

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  80. I don't blame you... I take every chance I get to think of that wonderful game.

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  81. Yeah, I'm right there with you.

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  82. How did RematchaMania work out for them last year? Again, they added Brock Lesnar and his crazy salary to the same main event they had the year before..and drew a LOWER buyrate.


    Yeah, they could keep mixing and matching Lesnar/Taker/Cena/HHH against eachother for the next few years, but eventually that'll end and they will have built up nobody else at their level. And then WWE is left holding their dicks in their hand going forward because they've already clearly defined Bryan/Punk/Sheamus etc down as being less than the retired guys.


    And above all that, I'd say that Cena/Taker is a much bigger draw than Lesnar/Taker anyway. Brock Lesnar is NOT drawing any UFC fans to watch his WWE matches— that ship sailed after the Cena loss and the awful series with HHH. So within the context of the 4 million people who watch WWE TV every week— the pool who will actually be purchasing PPVs, not this mythical "casual fan" who doesn't watch the show all year but then suddenly plunks down $70 because he saw Brock lesnar's face on a billboard— Cena is a bigger deal than Brock. So even by the "star vs star" comparison, they'd be stupid to do Lesnar/Taker over Cena/Taker.

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  83. Meanwhile, I knew we were heading for HHH/Cena to blow of the "Best for Business" angle. It will be hilarious when HHH gathers a percentage of more face pops than Cena, the perceived face in an angle where the heels are trying to prevent giving what many of them want. It's all been a big FU from Vince to smarks since the beginning. And yes, that match is gonna suck.

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  84. Stranger in the AlpsOctober 24, 2013 at 10:33 AM

    I didn't click the link, but I'm assuming that Ken Shamrock has opened a school to teach the art of condom biting. That's the only logical conclusion.

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  85. Stranger in the AlpsOctober 24, 2013 at 10:34 AM

    Rock-Cena III: Thrice in a Lifetime-eee.

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  86. Not me. Taker gives us **** matches every year at Mania. Enjoying great wrestling > worrying about the booking.

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  87. Not really. Brock's previous timeline is April 2002 to April 2004. For those who weren't watching back then, Brock-Taker would be a fresh match-up and probably a "dream match". If you WERE watching back then, though, you will remember Brock-Taker happening many times during Brock's short tenure

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  88. When's the last time Taker had a bad match? 2010? Triple H didn't exactly "bounce off of him" in either of their matches (the second of which is mostly praised).

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  89. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 24, 2013 at 10:36 AM

    Well, yeah kbjone...your right. And I would be rooting to Triple H, same as I would if he faced Bryan at Wrestlemania. You pick your guy you stick with them.





    As for the Undertaker, he has had the best match at Mania the last 5 years...let me repeat that, THE LAST 5 YEARS!!! Possibly 6 if you liked Taker/Edge better then HBK/Flair, (I preferred that latter.)




    Something else to think about. Lets say it is Brock/Taker and Cena/HHH. Well, we know that HHH and Taker are not wrestling for the title anymore...their just not. So who does that leave for the WWE title match? Dare I say Punk vs Bryan anyone?

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  90. For real. Orton's one of the most over dudes in the company.

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  91. I'd be fine with another Rock concert.

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  92. Precisely. I can think of no reason that Brock-Taker would be a bigger draw than Cena-Taker. Aside from the fact that Taker-Brock have headlined PPVs before, the Cena-Taker pairing at least has some inkling of suspense in that "just MAYBE the Streak ends" sense.

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  93. Cena / Taker > Lesnar / Taker.

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  94. That to me is the only thing that would be interesting about a Cena/HHH match, is the crowd reaction. You figure by that point, if they're doing HHH/Cena, then HHH will have gone over pretty much every face on the roster, including beating Bryan in a match. So one would expect he'd have mega-hatred going... but then he's in there against Cena, who at this point is the Mania crowd's worst villain. Who the fuck gets any cheers in that match? I don't think HHH automatically gets the face reaction that Cena opponents usually get, so it could end up being a pretty muted crowd reaction. I mean, there's no way that Cena gets the conquering superhero reaction that they'd be going for.

    Could end up being some Goldberg/Lesnar shit depending on the mood the crowd is in.

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  95. Rock Cena III - Three Fast and Three 3urious. Three times the Thraction. Three times the thpreed. Thrice in a thrifetime!

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  96. "Rematchamania" did slightly lower than the second biggest drawing match of all time. I'll say it did just fine.

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  97. Yes indeed. It was hardly a disappointing number, especially in the era of all other PPVs doing a fraction of what they once did

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  98. If Taker vs. Brock is really a thing, then I could totally see the rest being: HHH vs. Cena, along with Punk vs. Bryan for the title as a face vs. face type deal.

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  99. That would be the only redeeming factor in a HHH/Cena Mania match.


    But who's the guest ref?

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  100. ... written by Dusthty Rhodesth.

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  101. Agreed. Taker-Lesnar as sort of a mid-card attraction with good atmosphere and a few fun spots sounds a-ok to me if we get those other two matches.

    On the other hand, I'm reluctant to get my hopes up for Punk and Bryan in that scenario - 2 smark darlings with the world titles on the biggest anniversary show ever? Sounds familiar, and would they want to replicate that moment?

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  102. Punk vs Bryan in this circumstance (one with Lesnar/Taker and Cena/HHH on top) would mean that Punk comes into the match having lost a Lesnar feud, and Bryan having lost his feud to HHH. (Unless you think that Lesnar or HHH would be jobbing in the lead-up to their Mania matches.) At that point, you've defined Bryan and Punk down as a couple of midcarders who are doing warm-up for the real big boys, which does nothing for anyone.


    And personally, I thought the Taker/HHH matches were pretty bad, only saved by the intrigue of "well HHH MIGHT put himself over" so the Tombstone spot at 27 and the Superkick-Pedigree spot at 28 were legitimately cool. But Brock vs Taker gives you none of that intrigue, because Brock can't be built up as a legitimate threat to go over.

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  103. No way. Cena v. Taker is where it's at. It will have so much more drama and heat versus just Lesnar beating the shit out of Taker only to walk into a Last Ride or Tombstone. There's no excitement in Lesnar v. Taker

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  104. The issue wasn't that Cena, Taker, and HHH went over (although I suppose that's something people have a valid reason to find issue with).


    It's that the top three matches were all centered on part-timers. WWE doesn't seem even remotely interested in investing in the future in any meaningful fashion. They might give a guy like Daniel Bryan a shot, but only when their hand is forced by Cena getting injured or by crowds refusing to let the issue go, and even then, it's a half-hearted shot where they spend the majority of the time putting him down and marginalizing him in favor of other stars (for instance, only in the past two weeks has Bryan's chase for the title actually gone back to being about Bryan chasing the title. For the past two months, it's largely been about HHH and Big Show).


    I think people are just sick of seeing their favorites bust their ass every day of the year only to get shunted to the midcard on the biggest show of the year, if they make the show at all, in favor of the same circle of part-timers. At least with the guys they can build, there's nowhere to go but up. But the part-timers seem to be a business of diminishing returns.

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  105. Or Undertaker vs. Sting, despite the fact that Sting didn't even work for WWE

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  106. But Punk vs Bryan in this circumstance (one with Lesnar/Taker and Cena/HHH on top) would mean that
    Punk comes into the match having lost a Lesnar feud, and Bryan having
    lost his feud to HHH. (Unless you think that Lesnar or HHH would be
    jobbing in the lead-up to their Mania matches.) At that point, you've
    defined Bryan and Punk down as a couple of midcarders who are doing
    warm-up for the real big boys, which does nothing for anyone.

    And personally, I thought the Taker/HHH matches were pretty bad, only
    saved by the intrigue of "well HHH MIGHT put himself over" so the
    Tombstone spot at 27 and the Superkick-Pedigree spot at 28 were
    legitimately cool. But Brock vs Taker gives you none of that intrigue,
    because Brock can't be built up as a legitimate threat to go over.

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  107. They have so many other guys on the roster who could deliver **** matches at Mania though. How long do you stick with the same old dude who works a match or two a year and puts no one over? I mean, the "gives us **** matches" logic doesn't really apply when WitW's point was Taker going over CM Punk, of all people

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  108. HHH v. Cena and Lesnar v. Taker suck as Wrestlemania matches.

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  109. Only problem is a lot of Angle's best matches are on other WWE DVDs and they can't use the good stuff he has done since. It's been a long time since he's been in the WWE.

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  110. His feud with Kane was abysmal. He's wrestled what 6 matches since then?

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  111. Well, there may be some people who purchase WM just because it's WM, but I think there are a lot of people who buy WM just to see the Streak match, even if it's a shitty card.


    Remove Taker/Punk from WM29, and I think the show does significantly fewer buys. People need to know that at least one match is guaranteed to be memorable, if not possibly a classic.

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  112. I normally wouldn't be for it, but dammit, much like Bro-tista, Hollywood Rock was just too awesome a gimmick to only have lasted for four months.

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  113. Absolutely not. Cena v. Rock II and the Wrestlemania name, with the card being held in NY, were the selling points of the show

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  114. They were the selling points, but they weren't the only point. Putting Rock and Cena on top and throwing 3MB vs. Los Matadores and a combination of Divas matches on the bottom wouldn't guarantee a million buys. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, the main event is used to sell the card, because it's what appeals to the largest demographic. But there are people who absolutely will purchase a show based on one undercard match, even if the main event is anathema to them.

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  115. Cena v. Rock II and Wrestlemania were the two big selling points of the show. You probably could've put Taker against any main eventer and the show does the same amount of buys.

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  116. I don't think Taker against, say, Ryback would have worked. Sheamus? Sure. HHH again? Not so much. Del Rio? Meh. I really do believe that the match being specifically Punk vs. Taker inspired at least a couple people to purchase the show. Hell, that match was the only reason I bought it. Not saying everyone is like me, or even a significant fraction of people are like me. But if it were Taker/Ryback, that show doesn't do the same amount of buys.

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  117. It won't be that long till WWE owns the TNA library and we can get the complete Angle collection on DVD.

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  118. Probably the Rock...under the logic of "both guys are Rock's rivals, so he won't play favorites"

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  119. I don't think they were paying Brock Lesnar all that money so that the buyrate could DROP from the year before when he wasn't on it.

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  120. Then this really becomes Goldberg vs Lesnar all over again, as you'd have two guys that the crowd hates wrestling and the only one over would be the ref.

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  121. Just no. Cena/Taker with Taker retiring after the match

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  122. So question regarding any potential Taker matches...
    When we last saw Taker, he had been destroyed by The Shield. So does Taker return and ignore that, or do you think Taker comes back and squashes Shield before his "big match" with Brock?

    Before Mania 27 Taker had been beaten by Kane several times last we'd seen him, but he returned and completely ignored the whole Kane feud in the Mania build-up.


    My hunch is this time they'd at least do some sort of match or angle pre-Mania to put Taker over Shield, since you can't miss an opportunity to show the new guys who's boss.

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  123. Why does it matter what his age is? The dude is a big draw for Mania, puts on classic matches, and the crowd loves him. Why SHOULDN'T he be used? Either the guy can perform or he can't, and he clearly can. Age is irrelevant.

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  124. Kane is a terrible worker. You're really going to hold a bad feud with HIM against Taker? CM Punk had several atrocious matches with Kane.

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  125. No. They totally ignore it and move on to whatever 'Taker is going to be doing.

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  126. It's going to be long forgotten by February

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  127. Its to "indy" would be my guess

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  128. Acting like he's some great wrestler because he's had five matches is a bit much though.


    That series with Kane was abysmal. Since then he's fought Triple H twice, CM Punk once, Ambrose and was in the six-man tag. I think that's it.

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  129. If it's Taker v. whoever, the buyrate doesn't really swing one way or another. It's Wrestlemania that sells it, plus the Rock v. Cena rematch.

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  130. He should really stop doing what he was put on NXT to do: Learn "WWE style" and get over. That sort of attitude doesn't fly.

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  131. Well the answer to that depends on what you thought of the "chairshot and lay around for 5 minutes" matches against HHH at Mania 27/28. What saved those matches was the sense of drama in both, that feeling of "well HHH might put himself over." There's zero drama in a match with Lesnar. None. Whether you're "smart" (obviously Lesnar doesn't get to end the streak) or not (in kayfabe, Lesnar's this guy who lost last year at mania to HHH, the same guy Taker dominated), there is zero drama as to the outcome.
    So in that case the match quality will depend completely on the actual work. Why would Lesnar/Taker be a good match? Lesnar's two great matches came against cena and Punk, guys who could take his high impact stuff and work a faster pace. Taker isn't that guy. Lesnar's match with HHH (who wrestles more of the style we would expect from Taker) last year was awful and got no crowd reaction. To me, that's what Lesnar/Taker would comp too. A bunch of chairshots, laying down, and no drama as everyone waits for the Tombstone finish.

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  132. That's the one.

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  133. Wonder though if there's any chance they do something with Taker at Survivor Series, to try and pop some buys on that show. If that's the case, then maybe they revisit the Shield feud.


    Or if it does end up being Cena/Taker at Mania, and taker doesn't return until February, I could see some sort of Taker & Cena vs Shield Raw match in the build-up.


    But yeah, they could also just totally ignore it and move on.

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  134. Hey Lesnar and Taker got in an argument in "real life", that must make it a DREAM MATCH (that already happened). I get it if the point is that Lesnar is unstoppable and might actually be a threat to the streak. But he's lost to Cena. He's lost to HHH (at Wrestlingmania). And he should have lost to Punk by then (or Wrestlingmania 30 is where he should lose to Punk). It's a total waste of what should be Taker's last Mania--maybe we'll finally get the Cena match at 31 when Taker is totally unfit to continue. They might as well just bring back Goldberg and insist that we want that rematch as well.

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  135. It will be a better match than Brock/CENA!, but I agree, it's been done already and I'd like to see a fresh matchup. But, we're not the target demographic that will be like "YOOOOOOO HOTNESS!!!111" that pumps the most $$$ into WM.

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  136. Then maybe WWE should stop catering all of its storylines to smarky insidery shooty stuff that only "internet fans" would know about.


    This company is so bizarre in how they shit on the smarks, and then 99% of their main storyline is aimed directly at them.

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  137. You know, I've been annoyed by The Rock since he made his return to Raw speech as a prelude to hosting WM. You know, the one where he said he was never leaving again and wasn't doing it for the money? I wasn't watching wrestling consistently at that time, but even then, my first thought was something like the following:


    Fuck you, Dwayne. You're not doing this for the money? So, what...you're not taking a big paycheck or you're donating it to some worthy charity? And you're going to work a full time wrestling schedule instead of making movies? Bullshit. Don't fucking lie to me, and fuck you again.


    Yeah, I may have been a little ticked off. Yes, the man can be entertaining, but I really don't have any need to see him in a wrestling ring ever again. He apparently can't do it without injuring himself, so why bother? I'll watch him if he's there, but that's about the extent of my interest.

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  138. Yeah, babyface...don't play to the crowd. Fuck them!!! It's not like they put any money in your pocket.

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  139. So we're gonna ignore 26 vs. Shawn, which was the same year as the Kane feud? Or are you seriously making the argument that Taker's only had five great matches?


    Dude is a great worker. That is universally accepted. Remember Taker-Batista? Nobody thought that would be good, and Lesnar is a much better performer than Batista.

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  140. Extreme Rules was up 60,000 buys over the year before featuring Brock... SummeSlam was also up 60,000 buys from the year before featuring Brock.


    That's 120,000 extra buys over last year at $50 a pop... SIX MILLION DOLLARS!


    I'm sure they got their Lesnar money back in those two buys alone.


    Also, please don't compare a rematch from 9 -12 months prior to a "rematch" from a decade ago.

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  141. Dude, don't be so fucking unrealistic.


    Trips would strip Bryan before the PPV went off the air. Duh.


    ;-)

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  142. Wait. Wait. WAIT. Taker/Miz at WM?


    *pondering*


    If we can get a tombstone on Miz' dad out of it, book it. Book it NOW.

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  143. LOL DWAYNE! HAW!

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  144. Brock vs. Taker will be better than Brock vs. Cena?

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  145. He should have been "Hollywood Rock" when he came back to WWE. Might have made Cena seems like a little bit more of the everyman fighting for the WWE fans, when he dropped comments like "I never left" and such. Also, Hollywood Rock vs. anti-establishment CM Punk would have been far superior to what we got.

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  146. "Brock Lesnar is NOT drawing any UFC fans to watch his WWE matches— that
    ship sailed after the Cena loss and the awful series with HHH." That's what I said in regards to Lesnar's drawing power as it is now. Yeah, his first two matches back provided bumps— but last year's Mania still sold less than the year before with Brock added to it. That's my point— they've already killed the specialness of Brock Lesnar as a draw when he A) Lost his first match, and B) Had shitty matches with HHH after that.



    UFC fans aren't coming along with Brock anymore, and they haven't since those first two matches. Brock/Taker isn't as big of a draw as Cena/Taker.

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  147. Well I figure Vince & Co wanted him to come in as the huge babyface. They got their wish, and Rock started to fizzle right before he left (again)... so we've got to get one more great Hollywood Rock run. That whole thing was great, crowd ate it up.

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  148. You know, I think they could have had it both ways. You build Rock's big return to the ring for a year, do the Cena-Rock match at Wrestlemania XXVIII. Cena is hungry for his re-match and, in limited appearances throughout 2012, Rock becomes increasingly cocky and condescending toward WWE, the fans, etc. He finally goes fully-blown "I'm too good for WWE" Hollywood Rock. He teases never coming back, because he already beat the top guy on the biggest stage. CM Punk takes exception and says Rock can't win the title again. Rock's ego demands that he accept the challenge. Punk's historic reign vs. Hollywood Rock at Wrestlemania 29? If absolutely necessary, it can become a triple threat with Cena included?

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  149. Also, that indie show analogy is not applicable at all. On an indie show chances are the only people the audience would have even heard of are the Shelton Benjamins or John Morrisons, so of course you pair them off. Plus indie shows are just trying to spot sell that one show, not build up long term stars to build the company around. WWE should have the latter as SOMEWHAT of a priority when building a Wrestlemania card, rather than just killing off the rest of the roster (ie, the guys who they have to make money off of for 99% of the year) in order to match up all the part-timers.

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  150. I agree with you that WrestleMania SHOULD be about that, but these last few years show that's not a priority. They've got to make time for Kid Rock and Snookie. That's why Daniel Bryan gets jobbed out in 8 seconds to lose the World Heavyweight Championship in the opener. Hey, it ended up starting the true "making" of the guy, but that's not the WrestleMania priority anymore.

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  151. I'm saying, let's not act like Taker is a great worker because of his post-2010 output. He's been in tremendous matches but that's easy to do when you rarely wrestle and when you do, it's on the biggest stage

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  152. The reason he hasn't had a bad match since 2010 is because he never wrestles. And while I loved HHH-Taker 1 being there live and enjoyed HHH-Taker 2, a lot of people hated those matches

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  153. YankeesHoganTripleHFanOctober 24, 2013 at 12:57 PM

    Ah touche.

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  154. Easy? OK, moving along.

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  155. Yes. Easy. He's had 5 matches, 3 on the biggest stage, where he has a built-in story to every match that adds to the drama and spectacle.

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  156. They don't want to/ won't run cena vs taker because 1)Brock vs taker is a gigantic match 2)they don't want to turn Cena and they aren't putting him in match at mania where everyone is going to cheer taker 3) it won't effect the buy rate either way

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  157. They put Cena in a match where everyone was going to cheer The Rock

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  158. I'm guessing the desperation on here over the last few months for cena vs taker is because those people want to see a cena turn come about. Its just not going to happen. Although given their penchant for doing rematches maybe we get a brock vs taker vs punk triple threat, tying a few angles together

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  159. They jobbed him in Miami. I don't think they anticipated all the heat when rock raised cenas arm in NY. This time they can see it coming, 0 chance he's wrestling taker. Brock vs taker will be a awesome match though

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  160. They over looked plot holes much bigger than that. Shows contract, e mail gm, punk and ryback trading heyman, etc

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  161. Cena would get the majority of the face cheers though. Putting cena vs hhh might be the only way to get the majority of rge audience behind cena for an angle. I really really hope that isnt the plan for wmxxx main event but if you look cynically enough it makes sense

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  162. His WM matches with HHH BLEW.

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  163. I think the match is appealing because it would have that prospect hanging over it. The idea that the mythical Cena heel turn is the only way the Streak could end. It doesn't have to happen in order for the match to be a success though. It probably ends with Cena eating a third Tombstone, losing, and endorsing Taker to end the show.

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  164. Totally disagree. I liked 'em both, especially the HIAC one. I was there live, and it was tremendous.

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  165. At the February PPV, maybe they would do Shield vs. Cena/Taker as a handicap match, where the heels go over to sew the seeds of Cena/Taker challenging each other for Mania

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  166. Wrestlemania has always had celebrities, including the main event of the very first one, but I wish they would go back to them just being ring escorts and such. If bands are going to perform, it should be to play a wrestler to the ring. If D-list celebs are involved (Snooki), they should be valets and nothing more

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  167. That "drop" was a decline from the highest buyrate of all-time though

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  168. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 24, 2013 at 1:33 PM

    I'm someone who wants to see Cena/Taker but not because I'd be counting on a Cena turn— but because even without a Cena turn, there's some drama and intrigue in the outcome. I wouldn't be shocked to see even a face Cena win that match. Basically, either way, I'd be buying into the nearfalls of cena/Taker in a way which no other Taker matchup, especially Taker/Lesnar, could provide.

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  169. Overlap is not an issue to me. And there was at least one dvd-worthy match every week during the smackdown six era, so I'm not concerned there isn't a back log.

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  170. I don't care about the heel turn, but I'm in favor of any Cena feud that does not involve the WWE title.

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  171. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 24, 2013 at 1:37 PM

    Come on dude, #2 is total bullshit. They put Cena in situations where he is gonna get booed out of the house on a big stage (vs Punk, vs Bryan at Summerslam, 3 Manias in a row feuding with Rock, vs RVD at Hammerstein, etc etc) all the time. They absolutely knew he was gonna be the heel against Rock in NY last year and didn't care. Cena getting booed would have zero impact on whether they put him against Taker. Maybe it influences whether they decide to put Cena over and stay face, but it definitely doesn't affect whether they do the match at all.


    And as for #3, I definitely think Cena/Taker is a much more marketable match than Taker/Lesnar. As I've said throughout this thread, Lesnar/Taker has no intrigue whether you're a smark or mainstream fan. Nobody buys Lesnar as having a chance.

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  172. Ive been scrolling the thread and still havent seen this answered...why WOULDNT they go Cena/Taker? Fuck the talk of a Cena turn being involved, but its the most marqure match they put on the card. Thats why I want to see it

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  173. I don't put it on Taker. The way HHH puts matches together just absolutely bores me at this point. Look at his match with Lesnar at WM. They're plodding and meandering.

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  174. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 24, 2013 at 1:42 PM

    My guess, if they do Taker/Lesnar, is that Taker has somehow guaranteed them 2 more Manias and so their plan would be to do Taker/Lesnar this year and save Taker/Cena for the following.



    Taker/Cena is absolutely the biggest streak match they can do, and there's no way short of Taker losing his leg or something that Taker retires with that match still on the table.

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  175. With Takers age, I just dont know how you can leave that match on the table for XXX.

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  176. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 24, 2013 at 1:45 PM

    A blindfolded trapped in the basement Stevie Wonder coulda seen that coming! They knew Cena was gonna get booed, they just figured they'd do what they always do, which is turn up the music and ignore it, and then they'd have their 'Rock raising Cena's hand in front of the fireworks" footage which in the end was what they really wanted.


    And they'd do the same for Cena-Taker.

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  177. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 24, 2013 at 1:48 PM

    Oh yeah, not arguing with ya on that. They definitely could just ignore it.

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  178. Scan harder. Brock could be done for good in April... better take that money match now because you know Cena's always going to be there next year.

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  179. Is it really a money match? Go Cena/Taker bc with Takers age there is no guarantee how many matches he has left. Brock/Taker is peanuts ib terms of marquee compared to Cena/Taker.

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  180. Scream09_HartKillerOctober 24, 2013 at 2:41 PM

    The point is that Brock is an MMA fighter and Undertaker is an MMA fan so, you know, it'd be cool for an MMA fan to be able to say they beat an MMA fighter in a fake fight or something.

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  181. Totally agree. The suspense would be off the charts for all of us who have devoted countless frigging hours devouring this stuff.


    It's the closest thing we've got to Hogan-Andre.

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  182. Worst_in_the_WorldOctober 24, 2013 at 3:27 PM

    Exactly. The atmosphere would be amazing for Cena/Taker. You'd have the die hard Cenation going crazy that their guy might do it, while the other 90% of the crowd would be absolutely freaking OUT the whole time cheering for Taker. Every nearfall would be bought into. Any even TEASE of a Cena turn would whip people into a frenzy.


    Meanwhile Lesnar/Taker would just be plodding, no-intrigue death, much like HHH/Lesnar was last year.

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  183. if they do, Bryan will end up killing both the Bellas.

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  184. I definitely think that the fans would be about 90% pro-Cena for a Cena/Trips match. The hardcore fans may be completely sick of Cena's gimmick and booking, but it doesn't come close to the absolute disdain that they have for Trips.

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  185. Because he's working one match a year. That's a LOT of time to heal.

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  186. How did we all miss this one. Don't fucking lie to me...what?

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  187. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryOctober 24, 2013 at 8:04 PM

    Here's a question: if they do that triple threat and Punk pins Brock (or the other way around), does that end the streak?


    Fuck the WWE triple threat rules.

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  188. This may just be a me thing. The part that bother me starts at about the 8:45 mark:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOq30BTMfLY



    He "breaks character" and says, among other things, that he's not doing it for the money and that he's never, ever going away. It irritated me then, and it still does now, to a lesser degree.

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  189. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryOctober 24, 2013 at 8:12 PM

    I still don't get why that is such a dream match. Wouldn't Sting/HBK make more sense.

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  190. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryOctober 24, 2013 at 8:16 PM

    2012, though to be fair Taker's performance wasn't the problem whatsoever.

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  191. I think it would be a total disaster, especially if it went on last.

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  192. Hollywood Rock vs. Cena would be the biggest megaface ever. Keep in mind, Hollywood Rock did not keep Rock heel for very long. It was a great character, but like Punk, it was a pretty big failure on execution.


    The biggest way to get a heel reaction for Rock is to make him Cena's lil buddy.

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  193. It didn't need to last long. Just long enough for Punk to beat him and get the massive rub. But I agree, the character is too awesome to get booed for long

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  194. Exactly. If Cena-Taker is headlining, that's as much "money match" as they have left in the tank. If it really is Brock's last appearance, then use him to put someone over. It's not as if Lesnar-Taker hasn't happened many times before. I'm great with Punk-Lesnar II going at Wrestlemania, with Punk sending him packing to wrap up the whole Heyman feud

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  195. Precisely. It's the biggest match they have. Do Taker-Cena while they know they can do it. It doesn't even need a Cena turn. Just have Cena challenge him because it's the only thing he hasn't accomplished yet. It writes itself. They can do the whole Respect thing after Taker wins and go on with business

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  196. Seconded. Cena-Taker makes sense for WM 30. Punk-Lesnar II, Bryan-HHH, Taker-Cena seems logical to me. None of us even know that Brock is leaving after this contract anyway

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  197. Exactly right. Cena is the ONLY guy with enough juice to be convincing in the "he just MIGHT end the Streak" role.

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