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Let It Play Out and See Where It Goes

C'mon, how bad could months of John Cena and Randy Orton as the main champions be?

Guys?  Guys?

Comments

  1. It's 2003 again. Bryan = Booker T.

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  2. Yeah, I got nothing. If the payoff to Bryan getting screwed out of the title for 2-3 months is going to be Orton winning the HIAC, you've got to do it more decisively than that. Have HHH snap and bludgeon him, then order Michaels to make the count or something. That shit was just terrible, and kills pretty much all of Bryan's heat dead for the moment.

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  3. Now, we have a conflicted HBK, who super kicked his ex-student after he attacked his best friend, realized it and reluctantly counted to three to end the show. We are probably getting another HHH vs. HBK match. After that, I assume Show vs. Orton. As far as Bryan, no idea as they are so weak on the heel side

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  4. Y'all just hate the story because it doesn't have a happy ending.

    Marks.

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  5. If you just got into wrestling around Money in the Bank, and you were invested in Bryan's chase for the gold, you would have to spend $220 (4 PPVs) to follow his chase in real time.


    In related news, still no word on why buyrates are in the shitter.

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  6. Bryan got to knee Triple H in the face, on PPV.


    Fans paid to see that. You know this is leading to Bryan and Triple H.

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  7. TheRealCitizenSnipsOctober 27, 2013 at 9:53 PM

    I guess if you have to flog three PPVs in a six week span it's easier to go that route.


    Which isn't really a great argument for having three PPV's in a six week span.

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  8. Im angry so just gonna repost...

    HHH: "umm, Vince, I think we should hold off on giving Bryan the belt for 3 months. You know, because in 3 months itll REALLY mean something. "

    3 months later, aftee Bryans heat is slowly disappearing..

    HHH: "Vince, we cant give him the belt now. Hes not over anymore. I told you he wasnt sustainable. "

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  9. Yuck. SO glad I only checked into results now, and watched baseball instead.

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  10. Also, for those of you wondering why/how anyone could be sad at TNA's latest lineup of fuckups...


    Because the alternative is Vince by himself. And we saw how that turned out...

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  11. This is the payoff for HHH/HHH logic...

    HHH will go over Bryan at some point in the next few months, Cena will then swoop in to take Bryans place as the lead face vs the establishment, because Bryan "was just an indy guy who couldnt get the job done." HHH will then latdown for Cena. Hell rationalize not giving Bryan his payoff because, in his mind, "Im just building a bigger payoff for our top star, John Cena." Hell then get out of jobbing "to some indy guy."

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  12. Maybe, but that's not really a guarantee anymore unless Bryan gives him another knee tomorrow night or something. Because right now Bryan is just getting buried by the authority, which means he either needed to come out of this with the belt, or have Triple H REALLY go all out to screw him this time. This zany finish is just too meh, and if they keep this up no one's going to care about Bryan soon.

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  13. You could pretty much see this coming with HBK as the referee. What they needed to do was have HHH be the referee and totally stack the deck against Bryan a la Backlash 2000/OTE 98.

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  14. For those who dont think Bryan hasnt been hurt by the last few months of booking...laying down for someone isnt the only way to lose momentum. If youre a hot new main event act, its important that you get your run or the proper payoff at the right time. If you dont get the strap or the belt at the proper time A) your heat will dissipate or B) youll never get the belt and guess what...your heat will dissipate. See HHH vs Goldberg.

    For those who will say "the money is in the chase", the chase is a ploy to garner sympathy and momentum for the face, so theyll have a profitable title run. If the fans are RABID for a face to go over, then theres NO need to prolong it. Pull the trigger.

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  15. Let me clarify.


    Bryan is the first EMPLOYEE to assault Triple H. And not caring? Fans were RABID during his match, louder than they were for Jesus Christ John Cena.


    That ain't going anyway anytime soon.

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  16. That is the most depressing and accurate thing I've read in a long time.

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  17. It doesn't have to, but Triple H can't keep burying Bryan while delaying the payoff forever. The angle's not irredeemable or anything, but I don't exactly have faith that they're going to pull it out.

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  18. Why would anyone have sympathy for HBK? HHH had no right to be in the cage and Bryan was his student, so he should support him. He is the damn ref, move HHH's carcass out of there and ref the match. I think the real money is in a storyline where HBK has Super Kick Tourettes. They can run a clip from that event where he went on a super kicking rampage in the hallway ("I put Bret Hart in the sharpshooter, you know!") and put together music videos of him super kicking people without due cause. Then send him to therapy, which turns out to be run by Daniel Bryan and Kane. Story ends with them beating the crap out of him on live TV and then creating a buddy-cop sitcom.

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  19. I really really didnt think theyd go with the HBK turn.

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  20. Or just vote by paying money for the classic compilations and COD. Or support indies (too bad some are run by assholes these days, though)

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  21. Send him to developmental to learn how to work! After he recovers from the concussion he got from hitting his head against the glass ceiling. Is it 2002 again or what?

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  22. Like all of the profitable face title runs from 1980s NWA booking that we all praise?

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  23. I don't know that I'd call that a turn, per se. But knowing that HBK probably wasn't going to turn and with the whole Orton/HBK don't like each other bit, they were telegraphing that HBK was going to have to count the pin for Orton...which does nothing for Bryan/HHH, unless they have a *really* good idea up their sleeve, which I doubt.

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  24. Goldberg was never gonna get far...he was just another WCW name for WWE to destroy after the Invasion.

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  25. That's not a very good analogy to modern wrestling because of national television.

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  26. It's also not a good analogy because what WWE is doing now is exactly what NWA was doing then. Prolonging the chase long past the point where the title change should have happened, to the point where the face's heat isn't nearly what it once was, nor his reign anywhere near as profitable as it could have been.

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  27. You can tell from the crowd reactions that he's suffered from this. Stupid stupid stupid...

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  28. Youre right, "turn" was the wrong word. The pieces are in place to make this story going forward ppretty good, but with Shawn not wrestling and the previously discussed issues about HHH, theyre kinda tied up with what they can do.

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  29. Shockingly likely scenario.

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  30. Exactly, which is why the belt always ended up back with Flair instead of one of the dozen faces that should have been made into megastars.

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  31. Or not available. There are no indies within 100 miles of me. :-./

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  32. The one plus is, Albertoverrated is not a champion.

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  33. Hell of a series so far.

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  34. It's 2011 again! Bryan = CM Punk without a text message plan.

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  35. Well I mean, I don't think the story is dead, per se. If they want to go full bore with a HHH/Bryan feud and just wanted to have Orton taking the belt to do something else with it then they absolutely can, I just don't have a ton of faith that they'll be able to make that work, and think it would have been a whole lot better if Bryan could rub Triple H's face in the fact that Trips couldn't get the belt off of Bryan no matter how hard he tried.

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  36. I disagree, the fans were really behind him at a point. His contract length was an issue, knowing he was only around for a year hurt what they could do with him. He was really over at a point and could have carried the belt for a few months

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  37. Hey HHH apologists - WE TOLD YOU SO.

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  38. I think that might be significant if this was 1997 and Bryan was the first one to strike Vince Mcmahon. It's 2013 and HHH is the latest in a line of 10 billion authority figures. Furthermore, he is an "ex" wrestler who has been in matches within recent memory - matches in which he was struck multiple times. This Austin/Mcmahon trope is not going to work with HHH in charge. He is not the star here, Bryan is; but HHH probably can't accept that.

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  39. Triple H got kneed in the face on PPV.


    Fans paid to see that.

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  40. Should have gone over at Summerslam, and dropped the belt back to HHH at the Royal Rumble.

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  41. *Cornette Face* huh?

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  42. He was just another Ronnie Garvin for HHH's Flair (or as I alluded to, another Jedi/WCW megastar for HHH/Anakin to Order 66...2003 was all about that)

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  43. Yeah, I'm checking out for awhile on the current product. The frustration outweighs the enjoyment.

    Hope things are better by Rumble.

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  44. Oh no, Kevin Nash is coming. Gets put over Bryan, tears quad.

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  45. See you tomorrow!

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  46. The Garvin/Flair thing is the exact same scenario: overextending the chase until the faces heat dissapates to the point where the belt just ends up back on the heel or never leaves the heel.

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  47. I'm selling my nuclear power plant and going to South America for 5 months in just over 2 weeks. Maybe i should just skip everything until then and tune into the Royal Rumble completely fresh?


    No amount of bad booking could get me to miss the Rumble, but we all know the next 2 months is going to be nothing but forgettable Orton vs Big Show bullshit anyway.

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  48. Problem is...it's beyond Booker. It's RVD, Kane, Scott Steiner (although he was awful), and Goldberg...he came to his senses briefly with Benoit, but then struck up again with Eugene (wasn't a fan, but could've had steam). He continued with Orton and then put himself over in a second straight Elimination Chamber before making Batista look as good as Benoit. Same with Cena at 22. He came back and did DX and made Spitit Squad look wonderful (again, awful), Came back from the injury to destroy Booker once and for all, and then holds the title all of 2008. He's never defeated in one-on-one, just triple threats. In 2009, he booked a miserable Wrestlemania finish, and I was there to see and hear the deflated crowd. It's come in ebb and flows since then, but it still permeates...the guys undermines people he *wants* to have inferior to him.

    The guy has an inferiority complex, and it's somehow art (in a way) imitating life, only to be booked with intentions of not only harming Bryan, but he also had to drag names like RVD, Edge, and Jericho along. I don't understand the point of any of it, but again, it just seems like an inferiority complex that bleeds into real life.

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  49. I'm also bothered by how Bryan came across as kind of a dick in that finish. He shoved Orton into HBK (accidentally, but nevertheless) which gave him the opportunity to nail the running knee (by the way, doesn't it say everything there is to say that the camera was focused on Triple H outside the ring while Bryan nailed his finisher in the background). While Daniel was getting the visual pinfall Triple H was screaming "Are you okay" to Shawn, as though his concern for his friend was now taking precedent. Bryan approaches the groggy Michaels and doesn't express a similar concern; he simply says "Shawn, get up, you have to count." Triple H pulls Bryan away because HBK's well-being is more important to him than the match. So while Triple H is distracted by helping the downed man, Bryan sees the situation as an opportunity to ambush Triple H. He then celebrates the assault rather than tending to his former mentor.
    I read Shawn's actions not as him doing "his job" (following through on a pre-arranged plan with HHH) but rather as him reading the situation in the above manner and being pissed enough to knock-out Bryan for being a jerk. When Shawn cooled down, he of course factored in the months of abuse that had been heaped on Bryan and was able to contextualize the attack so he walked out of the ring looking upset and conflicted, but nevertheless with a sense of moral high superiority. As though everyone in the ring was in the wrong and he just wanted to get out of there.
    If there was any chance of this leading to a Michaels/Bryan match, it almost seems like Bryan would have to play the heel or he would be a very petulant face (like Punk during his Triple H angle). With it being doubtful that that could happen though, I imagine Bryan will just be faded into another feud, most likely getting a match against HHH somewhere down the line, but out of the title picture for some time.

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  50. That and he was just a token champion to get HHH more title reigns.

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  51. The story is littered with inconsistencies and the huge opportunities were sacrificed so Stephanie and HHH could cut 2-3 promos per show (good, confident promos that did more harm, unfortunately).


    Bryan is probably a bit less over than he was three months ago, but still hovering around main event status in terms of "overness." The one benefit of the HHH show was Cody getting a spotlight. Cody is THE rising star at the moment and should probably go solo sooner than later.



    In the end, we have Orton and Cena as our champions, Big Show likely main eventing next month, and more HHH and Stephanie promos ahead of us. These next couple of weeks might suck, but at least we're heading into a new chapter where things will be a bit less predictable.

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  52. Meh, the only one of those guys he absolutely should not have gone over was Goldberg. Booker T. is a case where he could have made him look better even though Triple H won but instead killed him dead with the 5 minute delay from Pedigree to pin, but fuck if I care about Kane, RVD, or Steiner, and Orton just wasn't working because his babyface character sucked. He made Batista, though, then tapped clean to Cena at 22.

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  53. The first person he came to his senses with...maybe that's why he is scared to do it again?

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  54. Well, we're 100% agreed on Goldberg. Safe to assume you're like me and assume that Summerslam 2003 was when they should've pulled the trigger?

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  55. Garvin was only supposed to be a temporary champ from the start.


    It's more like Luger/Flair in my opinion. Luger kept coming close, kept getting screwed out of it, and eventually fans got sick of it.


    I know I'm done with this angle.

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  56. Oh, no question. And if it wasn't the original plan, they should have audibled as soon as they saw how fucking hot the crowd was for Goldberg in that match. There's just no excuse whatsoever for not putting the belt on him there, especially with Triple H being injured at the time.



    I'll add that with the racism angle thrown in, Booker T. should have gone over too, but if I were to re-do that one from scratch, I'd just cut that bullshit out entirely and work a match where Booker takes H to the limit but comes up just short, making him look strong without having to put the belt on him at that point.

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  57. I was referring to Goldberg more than Bryan...

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  58. I assume Orton will be stripped of the title, since the referee (Shawn) screwed up the finish the way Scott Armstrong did.

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  59. My online "channel" kept fading during the main event but did HHH do anything extremely heelish? He came off kinda sympathetic, tending to his friend above all else, from the parts I saw.

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  60. Thats a really good example actually. Im probably gonna steal that one.

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  61. I think the basic framework of Austin/McMahon can still work, especially since Triple H has the benefit of being able to get in the ring himself for the ultimate payoff. It's just not going to work exactly the same way, since it's not the first time we've seen it, so someone hitting the boss with their finisher isn't edgy and over the top.

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  62. Vince and company don't give a shit if you buy their compilations... still money in their pockets.

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  63. Scream09_HartKillerOctober 27, 2013 at 10:40 PM

    Wasn't there a spot in the Undertaker/HHH match where ref Shawn let his emotions get the best of him and knocked Undertaker out with the Superkick, only to immediately regret it? Maybe it's a call back to that.

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  64. Scream09_HartKillerOctober 27, 2013 at 10:43 PM

    I don't know if it's because I expected the Orton/Bryan finish, but I'm equally as disgusted at John Cena returning to win the title in his first match back, yet again. We lost Steve Austin for a year in 1999 and for good in 2003, but we can't get a John Cena injury to last longer than 3 months. Life's not fair sometimes.

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  65. Scream09_HartKillerOctober 27, 2013 at 10:46 PM

    Or he just goes "Hey, I put Benoit over and he killed his family, and I refrained from destroying Jeff Hardy and he was arrested for drug trafficking, so I probably shouldn't be putting anyone over anymore".

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  66. Scream09_HartKillerOctober 27, 2013 at 10:55 PM

    That's probably true, but Goldberg doesn't do a whole lot to help himself out. He's difficult to work with and would only sign a one year contract with limited dates - there's only so much you can do with him in a year, and if I recall his dates were almost up when he lost the title in December because he wasn't around every week for long after that.

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  67. It's now three PPVs after Summerslam and we're literally right back where we were again -- Orton as champion after the referee handed him the fluke win and screwed over Daniel Bryan.

    Wouldn't surprise me if they were resetting to the night after Summerslam now that Cena is back, so they can just do whatever angle they wanted to do in the first place before Cena got injured and they were forced to put the title on Bryan.

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  68. That's fucking spot on dude! Good post

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  69. That's the story they're telling!

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  70. Amsterdam_Adam_CurryOctober 27, 2013 at 10:57 PM

    Fuck Randy Orton. Not because of what happened tonight (I expected it, haven't seen it, and it's not like he booked this shit), but because... just... fuck him. Just can't fucking stand the guy. Even if I never saw a wrestling match in my life, someone shows me even a picture of Orton and I'd think "Someone needs to punch that dickbrain in the stomach, or at the very least tell him to go home and get his fucking shinebox".

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  71. Scream09_HartKillerOctober 27, 2013 at 10:58 PM

    The best way for Bryan to get his revenge is to disappear back into the midcard while John Cena takes over and over-comes the odds. Then Bryan can turn on Cena and Cena can avenge his loss from Summerslam, while also avenging Bryan turning on him, even though he avenged what HHH did to him.

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  72. Scream09_HartKillerOctober 27, 2013 at 11:00 PM

    In other news, the Red Sox won! And I ordered the purple Macho Man t-shirt today. That's good news. Next up I need to find an Ultimate Warrior one.

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  73. That's interesting. I never considered this but maybe that's a possibility. I can't even figure out where they are supposed to be going - at this point the Orton/Bryan thing is so old that I don't want to see them wrestle again for a long time.

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