Best time to turn him heel is six months from now by cheating to beat Undertaker at Wrestlemania XXX. However, its not gonna happen, because we have another decade of Super Cena coming up. Cena sells too many shirts to 6 year olds to turn heel. True Hogan sold a lot of shirts when he turned heel with the NWO, but Cena isn't "cool" enough sell shirts as a heel to adults, so he will stay Super Cena for the kids.
So Bryan jobs at the ppv and then Vince comes back to move the angle along? Is cena ready to comeback as Vince's avatar? Honestly I'm fine with cena vs Orton as the big angle (the hhh vs Vince thing is played out but what can you do) because Orton has come along way as a worker so the matches will be good. Wonder what d bry will do? Does he go into a whc feud or should they just bury him since they won't push him to the top again anyways? And I wonder if punk and heyman stealing the show and finally getting punk over as a gigantic babyface (he already proved he could be#1 as a heel but this ddifferent) showed wwe they already have a second major face so why bother with Bryan anyways
I would have turned him when he was forced to join Nexus. He could have done a slow heel turn and once complete he kicks Barrett out of the group and assumes leadership (Kind of like the Rock did when he joined the NoD.) He feuds with a face Barrett, helping to elevate him in the process. Plus Cena with Darren Young as a lackey would be comedy.
I'll never get why they stopped pushing Sandow. That's a great gimmick, he plays it perfect, and can work. What am Imissing? big fan so I hope he gets the belt
Keep him face forever. He's awesome. Why would you even want him turned. Punks the one you should be heel so we can finally get the epic face cena vs heel punk at wrestlemania. Imagine if savage and hogan, Bret and Shawn, and rock and Austin never got a mania main event?
Threadjack: Please let this be true... In news sure to delight CSSers, WWE is indeed planning to repackage Wade Barrett in the "Bad News Barrett" gimmick he has portrayed on the JBL & Cole Show. Additionally, WWE is considering some repackaging options for Drew McIntyre that would split him away from 3MB. http://www.cagesideseats.com/2013/10/4/4800832/rumor-roundup-for-friday-october-4-undertaker-goldust-bryan-lesnar
I dated a cheerleader in college until I fucked it up, I used to laugh at her when she called it a sport but then saw some of her practices and stuff. It's pretty intense/athletic shit.
Vince is coming back early bc USA thinks hes a ratings draw and they have no faith in the guys at the top. Love Vince but the last thing this needs is another authority figure in this clusterfuck of an angle.
See you in opening matches next year Daniel, its been a fun ride.
I think he's this generations Randy Savage: A good second tier guy that can be called on when a "made man" is out and carry things for limited periods of time.
The original idea was to get Bryan to cenas level but I think would punk showing he really can be a monster face (when he's not forced to be cena lite) has made the angle kind of pointless
Punk can do what he does because it's Heyman. Put him in Bryan's place, having to deal with the McMahon-Helmsleys Part Deux, and he's as mistreated as Bryan.
Oh yeah dude, don't get me wrong. No one is gonna get over working with hhh. That's a death sentence. I'm just saying punk has finally risen to monster face. He's shown that he can be a mount Rushmore-heel but is face work was so so (outside the ring) until the heyman thing. So now that they have a 2nd super face why bother pushing Bryan (their attitude, not mine)
Well I don't know what your job is, but if you were a wwe diva and left to go be a model/actress because your better than side show circus freak work in your own mind, see theres no interest outside of porn, and go crawling back to be a wwe diva, that's pathetic imo
Ok, at this point I'm lost as to what constitutes a "chosen one." The whole "not a WWE creation" thing I understood. I didn't LIKE it, but there was a train of logic there I was able to follow; Vince didn't want people he perceived as "non-WWF guys" getting over. Then Ryder was getting over in spite of not being a "chosen one," and I could almost understand that. He got over via a YouTube thing he was doing, completely outside of the WWE stuff. WAY stupider than the "non-WWE guy" argument, but there's still a clear argument being made. Ignoring any suppositions about what he was or wasn't doing backstage. But Sandow? I mean, I'm not saying you're being 100% serious with this comment, I don't know if you are, but the fact that I don't know if you're being serious or not says enough about the product anyway. If the guy came up through WWE and is getting over purely based on what he has done on WWE television, then what the fuck is the problem here?
It would have been way too early in his run, so early that it wouldn't have had near the impact but Cena pinning RVD clean in the Hammerstein would have drawn the most heelish crowd reaction of all time.
In the later years, I'd say right after the Rock loss. He had a perfectly legitimate reason in that the fans shit all over him for being the work horse while cheering for a guy that couldn't care less about wrestling. Basically the old Mankind "while they were beating us with chairs you chanted Stone Cold's name" kind of turn.
Even the PERCEPTION that this could be true isn't helping WWE at the moment. Someone cuts a damn fine promo, does something to get actual wrestling heat... and is tweaked for it because he went "off-script"?
Fuck you Steph. And I don't mean literally, for once.
Having Cena beat RVD by obliterating him with a chair or something and delivering a proverbial "fuck you" to the booing crowd would have been epic, and could have launched a really awesome heel run. Would have made the WM 23 match with HBK even better too.
Nah, he's higher than ADR and Orton i'd say. Probably a notch below Punk and Cena at the moment. He is headlining the PPV's properly though, so i think they are running with him and won't give up just yet. No alternative until Cena comes back in Dec/Jan anyway
The fans who were kids in the 80's (myself included), were late teen's/early 20's by the mid-90's and didn't care for that cartoonish hero anymore. And Hogan's act was not interesting enough for the kids of the 90's. It's supply and demand, and there was no demand, so he turned heel.
As long as Cena keep his current fanbase, or brings in new kids to replace the older ones to buy his stuff, he'll remain face. As soon as those wells dry up, we'll get a heel.
What would be the point of turning Punk heel to go against Cena at a Mania? Punk could kill the proverbial basket full of puppies on live TV and that Mania crowd would still cheer him like God against Cena. Hell, at this point a family of 4 in Bumblefuck, Middle America would be cheering for Punk. He's a megaface right now. No way they should bother turning him, at least for a few years.
I kinda feel like they might as well just run Punk-Cena at a Mania soon (I'd bet it's definitely one of the better possibilities for this year) with them both as faces. Cena would be getting ridiculous heel heat anyway, so the dynamics would be pretty off teh charts.
Oh, my mistake for not making it clear--- I wouldn't turn Cena for that match either. Just do face-face Punk/Cena and let the crowd naturally boo Cena and cheer Punk.
I'm kinda with you on Cena at this point—— let him stay face, appear on cereal boxes, and let the crowd boo his ass. Who cares.
I know the discussion is about Punk/Cena, but if Cena faces the Undertaker at Mania he would be heel due to the fans turning on him. Would it be smart to do it then?
I can dig it. Plus, the Raw after WM28 would still be in Rock's territory right? Florida? Having Cena do the epic beatdown on Rock and do a long tirade against the fans. Next week he tries the same ranting...and gets interrupted by Brock Lesnar.
Yea, it was in miami. Im down with your scenario, just not sure how you then position Brock. Dont think theyd bring him in as a face...maybe just hold off on that match until a more organic situation arises between the two
Im in the other camp but am fascinated on how the crowd would react if he ever did turn. I think a portion of the crowd would think it's cool cheer a heel cena.
Yeah, fair point. Given Brock's limited dates, I don't think he needed to debut the next night anyway. Everyone would know that Brock had signed, but maybe just let it ride for months, so no one knows exactly when he's going to debut. Cena could have had a dominant heel run from post-WM RAW til he had beaten just about everyone.....then bring him in
even better: loses to lesnar, has the actual losing streak "bad year" the WWE pretended he had in the lead-up to WM29 and then turns heel to beat Rock, whether aligning himself with some other heel or figuring out some other way to do a turn
Why not just do it in January? Have him be the surprise 30th entrant into the Rumble (Yes, again) and win (yes, again), but this time actually capitalize on the smark blowback. Have him throw his lot in with HHH because, well, until now, SuperCena has been "good for business" so why change things? Play up the differences between Cena, the good company man, and Big Show, the reluctant lackey.
Cosigned. Im not in the "turn Cena" camp at all but thought there was a SLIGHT chance theyd pull the turn at 29. Figured they might be duplicating the Austin/Rock build from X7
This is why everyone wants him turned so badly, so they can cheer him. And then we'll be right back where we are now, where he's getting mixed reactions and selling only half the merchandise.
Let's not pretend a Heel Cena is suddenly going to send us all out to buy arm bands the way kids do.
He would have to put some serious work in to get cheered as a heel. He got disrespected in Anaheim of all places, cutting an "I'm hurt" promo. I think alot of people are done with him. I wouldn't be surprised if when he comes back and does the conquering hero thing, he gets totally shat on.
Maybe cheered is the wrong word. What I mean is the internet wants desperately to like him, that's why we talk incessantly about turning him. All Hogan had to do was cut some promos in the same vein as his old stuff and here we all are talking about it 17 years later.
It's a moot point though, he'll stay the same character until someone that can carry the company shows up and the prospect of that happening any time soon is pretty low. Other than Miz it doesn't seem like anyone wants to work any harder than necessary.
Why can't he carry the company as a heel? I seem to remember some guy who was allowed to do that for like 3 years. It's not like he can't do PR as a heel. People know it's fake. They had Miz doing PR as a heel.
Investors aren't interested in a guy that is mean to fans or does dastardly things to win. It is what it is. A publicly traded company always wants a milquetoast representative that offends nobody.
Triple H? And they went public in 1999. That's just an excuse at this point. Basically they're just not lazy and/or innovative anymore. Cena is Malibu Stacey with a "new shirt".
I'm having trouble remembering a time when Triple H was the corporate face of the WWE, in the beginning of his run Rock, Austin and Foley were around to do media appearances and by the end of his run we already had Cena. I'm not saying your wrong, just that in my mind it doesn't seem he was ever the go to guy for Make-A-Wish and stuff like that.
Having a handsome, squeaky clean, drug free, milquetoast super face that offends zero people isn't lazy, it's exactly what every company wants. I would think especially this company, that basically has to deal with terrible press on a seasonal basis. Every time something terrible happens in the wrestling universe they can always point to Cena as the wave of the future.
I mean, seriously, we live in a world where entire media empires can be taken down with one drunk tweet, they'd be idiots to change what isn't broken in the slightest.
Now of course that makes for boring television for us adults but we're not their target audience anymore anyway.
There is NO scenario in which a Cena heel turn would initially draw boos besides cheating to end the streak. Not that he couldnt draw effective heel heat down the road but the initial turn would be cheered.
Maybe not end the streak, but what if he was so obsessed to beat the Undertaker he aligned himself with HHH/Stephanie to become the corporate champ/merch machine they want?
Cena goes into Wrestlemania as the biggest threat to end the streak and the fans will truly have no idea of who would win. The WWE could even "leak" a story that they are considering ending the streak to drive people nuts.
Perish the thought they'd be allowed to watch a show you don't 100% enjoy. "I know you like wrestling kiddo's but I don't like one character on the show so you don't get to enjoy it!" Tremendous father of the year stuff right there.
Better check their buyrates and ratings. First of all, you can go to the corporate site and see that 75% of their audience are adults and a very large percentage are in the geezer demo that gets ignored by advertisers
wouldnt ending the streak be a short term thing tho?
taker is gone most of the year. so after the initial, 'oh my god, he killed taker!' shock, no one would care. he'd have to follow it up somehow, and thats the important thing, is how to book him as a heel moving forward
kids are the target demo, but their folks are paying for the tix and merch. so if youre out there with a kid who likes cena, stop paying for your damn kid to go and cheer and support him! that'll cut down on positive crowd response, and the wrestling world will once again be ours, muahahahahahahahahahah
Right, so there's no point in even counting them. Who cares how many older people are watching if advertisers have zero interest in paying for spots to reach them?
The 24% under 18 is the real market and always will be (and whatever 18-24 year old's they have, the site wasn't very clear about that demo). That's where the advertising and merchandise dollars are.
Like I said, turning Cena heel isn't going to cause a bunch of 30-year-old's to start watching or buy merchandise. There is no benefit to it as long as they want to stay PG. Now if they were willing to go adult I think there's a very different potential for success, but as long as it remains a kids show then a kid friendly star should be the focus. And, for the purposes of investors and advertisers, I don't see them leaving the PG Era any time even remotely soon.
(By the way I have no vested interest really in Cena I just love talking about the business side of it more than the storyline side, I haven't been interested in the product in many years but remain fascinated at the industry.)
The nWo had a coolness factor that I don't think anyone can deny. John Cena was considered cool once before. However, John Cena cannot revert back to the anti-establishment rapper character he was a decade ago after being the establishment for the past decade. The only thing he could do is be an arrogant corporate champ heel at this point. He won't sell any merchandise like that, and that's why he is never turning heel, at least for many years. In that time period, we will keep having the "bizaro world" where the number one face gets booed in almost every major PPV.
It would be a perfect way to turn him heel, because it would legitimately piss of many people. People would be furious that John Cena of all people gets to be the guy to beat the guy to beat the streak, when it could have gone to an up and comer.. Anytime you can get people legitimately angry at a heel (Montreal ScrewJob Mr McMahon anyone) it is always good for business, as long as the heel gets it in the end. However, I know its not happening, but I would find it awesome.
The advertisers also have no use for kids, either, 18-49's are the most important. No one is selling kids ads at 10:45PM on a Monday.
The PG Era has also been a disaster for their stock price. They are misreading their target demo, like any other soulless corporate entity that's floating through life. Their only upside is that they have very little competition and that competition has its own constraints.
Their target demo is adults whether they realize it or not
My point...is that backed by the Shield (who are the analogues for the Outsiders) it doesn't matter if Cena is cool.
Cena gives the Shield the main-event rub, and the Shield gives Cena freshness and coolness. You have a couple years worth of main-events, you MAKE the Shield as top guys and you sell a shit-ton of merchandise.
I wonder how Savage would have worked out as the governor of Florida.
ReplyDeleteAnd then he calls him "Semen Punk".
ReplyDeleteAs flashy as Jesse was out of the ring he sure was boring in it.
ReplyDeleteBeing revealed as the leader of the Shield after they help him beat Rock at 29.
ReplyDeleteBest time to turn him heel is six months from now by cheating to beat Undertaker at Wrestlemania XXX. However, its not gonna happen, because we have another decade of Super Cena coming up. Cena sells too many shirts to 6 year olds to turn heel. True Hogan sold a lot of shirts when he turned heel with the NWO, but Cena isn't "cool" enough sell shirts as a heel to adults, so he will stay Super Cena for the kids.
ReplyDeleteYou gotta start somewhere.
ReplyDeleteMany, many successful wrestlers got their start because some other wrestler saw them, thought they looked good, and convinced them to give it a try.
Just ask Evan Bourne.
ReplyDeleteZach Ryder would say something as well.
ReplyDeleteReally.
ReplyDeleteSo Bryan jobs at the ppv and then Vince comes back to move the angle along? Is cena ready to comeback as Vince's avatar? Honestly I'm fine with cena vs Orton as the big angle (the hhh vs Vince thing is played out but what can you do) because Orton has come along way as a worker so the matches will be good. Wonder what d bry will do? Does he go into a whc feud or should they just bury him since they won't push him to the top again anyways? And I wonder if punk and heyman stealing the show and finally getting punk over as a gigantic babyface (he already proved he could be#1 as a heel but this ddifferent) showed wwe they already have a second major face so why bother with Bryan anyways
ReplyDeleteTony Atlas threw them in the "Ho Bag" in his YouShoot. He claims they were flopping around naked in a hotel hot tub
ReplyDeleteI would have turned him when he was forced to join Nexus. He could have done a slow heel turn and once complete he kicks Barrett out of the group and assumes leadership (Kind of like the Rock did when he joined the NoD.) He feuds with a face Barrett, helping to elevate him in the process.
ReplyDeletePlus Cena with Darren Young as a lackey would be comedy.
If the stories are correct, that would be Lita's nickname.
ReplyDeleteI'll never get why they stopped pushing Sandow. That's a great gimmick, he plays it perfect, and can work. What am Imissing? big fan so I hope he gets the belt
ReplyDeleteI wanted this to happen so badly while I was watching mania this year.
ReplyDeleteKeep him face forever. He's awesome. Why would you even want him turned. Punks the one you should be heel so we can finally get the epic face cena vs heel punk at wrestlemania. Imagine if savage and hogan, Bret and Shawn, and rock and Austin never got a mania main event?
ReplyDeleteThey left for greener pastures and came crawling back to the divas division. IMO that kinda makes them pathetic
ReplyDeleteThat he's not a "Chosen One"?
ReplyDeleteThreadjack:
ReplyDeletePlease let this be true...
In news sure to delight CSSers, WWE is indeed planning to repackage Wade Barrett in the "Bad News Barrett" gimmick he has portrayed on the JBL & Cole Show. Additionally, WWE is considering some repackaging options for Drew McIntyre that would split him away from 3MB.
http://www.cagesideseats.com/2013/10/4/4800832/rumor-roundup-for-friday-october-4-undertaker-goldust-bryan-lesnar
I dated a cheerleader in college until I fucked it up, I used to laugh at her when she called it a sport but then saw some of her practices and stuff. It's pretty intense/athletic shit.
ReplyDeleteSays you. Just wait 'til Mania 50 when we have The Rock vs. HHH vs. Undertaker in a Triple Threat Zimmer Frame To Maim match!
ReplyDeleteI said it when it was first mentioned. Barrett won't get a real push past 30 days, even repackaged. And splitting up 3MB? Sure, why not.
ReplyDeleteAssuming the WWE lasts another 20 years of course.
ReplyDeleteBad News Barrett? Maybe they can bring Xavier Woods up from NXT and have him be Barrett's partner, Commiserations Creed?
ReplyDeleteI'd give it a good chance. Although by WM 50 the "matches" may be reduced to Interpretive Dance Competitions.
ReplyDeleteVince is coming back early bc USA thinks hes a ratings draw and they have no faith in the guys at the top. Love Vince but the last thing this needs is another authority figure in this clusterfuck of an angle.
ReplyDeleteSee you in opening matches next year Daniel, its been a fun ride.
I agree with you, kb, but what a 30 day period that'll be
ReplyDelete"Josh, I've got some bad news...your face is weird!! You'll never be a male model!"
I think Bryan is safe as a 'made man'. He's this generation's bret hart. I think people are panicking a little...
ReplyDeleteJesse Baker is going to blow his load when he sees this. Over/under on the length of his response is 3 paragraphs.
ReplyDeleteBet Vince gets them a 3.0 though. Just so long as he makes sure its a shit mnf game that night
ReplyDeleteHe could've gone full-on dictator and tried to use Young as a body double.
ReplyDeleteNow THAT would be an interesting feud: A tree hugging, dirt-munching hippie vegan vs. her silicone-filled, stuck-up Hollywood twin.
ReplyDelete..they have other uses. They know the correct sugar/water/Kool-Aid ratio and they can make a mean fried bologna sandwich.
ReplyDeleteI just hope Sandow takes the belt off a face. Let adr job to rvd and then cash in. I don't want them to turn either guy face
ReplyDeleteDisagree. I think WWE sees him as a notch below the top regular guys, Cena, Punk, Orton...on the ADR, Sheamus type level.
ReplyDeleteI think he's this generations Randy Savage: A good second tier guy that can be called on when a "made man" is out and carry things for limited periods of time.
ReplyDeleteThe original idea was to get Bryan to cenas level but I think would punk showing he really can be a monster face (when he's not forced to be cena lite) has made the angle kind of pointless
ReplyDeleteSo Cena as Hogan, Bryan as Savage... That makes Punk...?
ReplyDeleteFlair. He's eternally over no matter what.
ReplyDeletePunk can do what he does because it's Heyman. Put him in Bryan's place, having to deal with the McMahon-Helmsleys Part Deux, and he's as mistreated as Bryan.
ReplyDeleteSee: Summer/Fall 2011.
WWE doesnt protect ANYONE besides their top guys now though. Its Cena then everyone else. Look at Orton and Dolph now.
ReplyDeleteRoddy piper, but punk is savage so really d bry is piper
ReplyDeleteFlair in WWE during the Megapowers run... Flair taking Zeus' place for the SS tag match...
ReplyDelete(Excuse me.)
Oh yeah dude, don't get me wrong. No one is gonna get over working with hhh. That's a death sentence. I'm just saying punk has finally risen to monster face. He's shown that he can be a mount Rushmore-heel but is face work was so so (outside the ring) until the heyman thing. So now that they have a 2nd super face why bother pushing Bryan (their attitude, not mine)
ReplyDeleteI don't see Punk a Piper, because Punk actually loses from time to time.
ReplyDeleteWhy? so he could eat the Legdrop/Elbowdrop combo?
ReplyDeleteI see punk as savage because he's the #2 guy behind hulk cena. A better analogy is cena is Austin, punk is rock and Bryan is Foley
ReplyDeleteI've returned to jobs in the past after new jobs didn't really pan out/live up to the hype.
ReplyDeleteGood point. But it's still one hell of a dream match.
ReplyDeletespaceballs!
ReplyDeleteYea, thats what the goal should have been. With how wwe books all their regulars besides Cena and Punk, Bryans destined for an ADR type role...
ReplyDeleteWell I don't know what your job is, but if you were a wwe diva and left to go be a model/actress because your better than side show circus freak work in your own mind, see theres no interest outside of porn, and go crawling back to be a wwe diva, that's pathetic imo
ReplyDeleteBad News Barrett? No way he can pull off being a black guy from Harlem.
ReplyDeleteI was hoping for a casket match.
ReplyDeleteYou're missing (or forgetting) that 'creative' has the attention span of 6-month old.
ReplyDeleteOk, at this point I'm lost as to what constitutes a "chosen one." The whole "not a WWE creation" thing I understood. I didn't LIKE it, but there was a train of logic there I was able to follow; Vince didn't want people he perceived as "non-WWF guys" getting over. Then Ryder was getting over in spite of not being a "chosen one," and I could almost understand that. He got over via a YouTube thing he was doing, completely outside of the WWE stuff. WAY stupider than the "non-WWE guy" argument, but there's still a clear argument being made. Ignoring any suppositions about what he was or wasn't doing backstage. But Sandow? I mean, I'm not saying you're being 100% serious with this comment, I don't know if you are, but the fact that I don't know if you're being serious or not says enough about the product anyway. If the guy came up through WWE and is getting over purely based on what he has done on WWE television, then what the fuck is the problem here?
ReplyDeleteIt would have been way too early in his run, so early that it wouldn't have had near the impact but Cena pinning RVD clean in the Hammerstein would have drawn the most heelish crowd reaction of all time.
ReplyDeleteIn the later years, I'd say right after the Rock loss. He had a perfectly legitimate reason in that the fans shit all over him for being the work horse while cheering for a guy that couldn't care less about wrestling. Basically the old Mankind "while they were beating us with chairs you chanted Stone Cold's name" kind of turn.
50% not serious, 50% he's not Cena or a McMahon (actual or by marriage).
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wrestlecrap.com/rants/newz-according-to-nipple-h-big-duthdee-committed-a-pay-win-dont/
ReplyDeleteEven the PERCEPTION that this could be true isn't helping WWE at the moment. Someone cuts a damn fine promo, does something to get actual wrestling heat... and is tweaked for it because he went "off-script"?
Fuck you Steph. And I don't mean literally, for once.
Jesse really should've just wrestled in his doo-rags because his hair has looked like shit for the past 35 years.
ReplyDeleteHaving Cena beat RVD by obliterating him with a chair or something and delivering a proverbial "fuck you" to the booing crowd would have been epic, and could have launched a really awesome heel run. Would have made the WM 23 match with HBK even better too.
ReplyDeleteBig E isn't getting pushed because he doesn't get a reaction.
ReplyDeleteI am 100% not surprised by that.
ReplyDeleteTHE ULLLLLTIMATE SHEAMUS
ReplyDelete...actually. Yes. If written correctly, that could be a good feud.
ReplyDelete"No one is gonna get over working with hhh."
ReplyDeleteAnd no one is ever going to get over without HHH jamming himself into a program with them.
So no one is ever going to get over. It's a win-win-win!
That's what I was coming in to say. He had the look, and he could talk, but he was just too one-note in the ring to ever amount to much.
ReplyDeleteBodyslam!
Yea, the night after WM 28 would have been perfect. Punk is still a face at this point so run with that.
ReplyDeleteI got that part, just not sure how his comment relates to what I said.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, they do not give you any reason to care about him. I have no idea why they didn't let him use his gimmick in NXT.
ReplyDeleteNah, he's higher than ADR and Orton i'd say. Probably a notch below Punk and Cena at the moment. He is headlining the PPV's properly though, so i think they are running with him and won't give up just yet. No alternative until Cena comes back in Dec/Jan anyway
ReplyDeleteCena is fine where he is. Just don't let him do any promos except serious go home ones.
ReplyDeleteLet's look at Hogan's run.
ReplyDeleteThe fans who were kids in the 80's (myself included), were late teen's/early 20's by the mid-90's and didn't care for that cartoonish hero anymore. And Hogan's act was not interesting enough for the kids of the 90's. It's supply and demand, and there was no demand, so he turned heel.
As long as Cena keep his current fanbase, or brings in new kids to replace the older ones to buy his stuff, he'll remain face. As soon as those wells dry up, we'll get a heel.
What would be the point of turning Punk heel to go against Cena at a Mania? Punk could kill the proverbial basket full of puppies on live TV and that Mania crowd would still cheer him like God against Cena. Hell, at this point a family of 4 in Bumblefuck, Middle America would be cheering for Punk. He's a megaface right now. No way they should bother turning him, at least for a few years.
ReplyDeleteI kinda feel like they might as well just run Punk-Cena at a Mania soon (I'd bet it's definitely one of the better possibilities for this year) with them both as faces. Cena would be getting ridiculous heel heat anyway, so the dynamics would be pretty off teh charts.
I take the over.
ReplyDelete"Darren, you are so fucking stupid. Why couldn't mom have cheated on dad with a SMARTER motherfucker..."
ReplyDeleteOh, my mistake for not making it clear--- I wouldn't turn Cena for that match either. Just do face-face Punk/Cena and let the crowd naturally boo Cena and cheer Punk.
ReplyDeleteI'm kinda with you on Cena at this point—— let him stay face, appear on cereal boxes, and let the crowd boo his ass. Who cares.
I know the discussion is about Punk/Cena, but if Cena faces the Undertaker at Mania he would be heel due to the fans turning on him.
ReplyDeleteWould it be smart to do it then?
I can dig it. Plus, the Raw after WM28 would still be in Rock's territory right? Florida? Having Cena do the epic beatdown on Rock and do a long tirade against the fans. Next week he tries the same ranting...and gets interrupted by Brock Lesnar.
ReplyDeleteIf they ever intend to turn Cena, I think having him do it to end the Streak would be about as good a way as any.
ReplyDeleteI agree. It won't happen, but if they were going to do it, that's about as big an impact heel turn as you can do
ReplyDeleteYea, it was in miami. Im down with your scenario, just not sure how you then position Brock. Dont think theyd bring him in as a face...maybe just hold off on that match until a more organic situation arises between the two
ReplyDeleteI'm a "Turn Cena Heel Guy".
ReplyDelete- He will get nuclear heel heat
- He will still sell merch
- It will be shocking
- Ratings will spike
- Limitless possibilities.
It defies all wrestling logic that he has not been turned, he should have been turned at Mania 22.
Im in the other camp but am fascinated on how the crowd would react if he ever did turn. I think a portion of the crowd would think it's cool cheer a heel cena.
ReplyDeleteYeah, fair point. Given Brock's limited dates, I don't think he needed to debut the next night anyway. Everyone would know that Brock had signed, but maybe just let it ride for months, so no one knows exactly when he's going to debut. Cena could have had a dominant heel run from post-WM RAW til he had beaten just about everyone.....then bring him in
ReplyDeleteeven better: loses to lesnar, has the actual losing streak "bad year" the WWE pretended he had in the lead-up to WM29 and then turns heel to beat Rock, whether aligning himself with some other heel or figuring out some other way to do a turn
ReplyDeleteWhy not just do it in January? Have him be the surprise 30th entrant into the Rumble (Yes, again) and win (yes, again), but this time actually capitalize on the smark blowback. Have him throw his lot in with HHH because, well, until now, SuperCena has been "good for business" so why change things? Play up the differences between Cena, the good company man, and Big Show, the reluctant lackey.
ReplyDeleteCosigned. Im not in the "turn Cena" camp at all but thought there was a SLIGHT chance theyd pull the turn at 29. Figured they might be duplicating the Austin/Rock build from X7
ReplyDeleteBecause he's staler than bread that has turned black?
ReplyDeleteNot just end the streak... but by interfering to screw Taker against an opponent who is totally unworthy.
ReplyDeleteNo I think it's Shawn in Canada heat. People HATE Cena.
ReplyDeleteThis is why everyone wants him turned so badly, so they can cheer him. And then we'll be right back where we are now, where he's getting mixed reactions and selling only half the merchandise.
ReplyDeleteLet's not pretend a Heel Cena is suddenly going to send us all out to buy arm bands the way kids do.
I liked how they cut the ring in half.
ReplyDeleteHe would have to put some serious work in to get cheered as a heel. He got disrespected in Anaheim of all places, cutting an "I'm hurt" promo. I think alot of people are done with him. I wouldn't be surprised if when he comes back and does the conquering hero thing, he gets totally shat on.
ReplyDeleteMaybe cheered is the wrong word. What I mean is the internet wants desperately to like him, that's why we talk incessantly about turning him. All Hogan had to do was cut some promos in the same vein as his old stuff and here we all are talking about it 17 years later.
ReplyDeleteIt's a moot point though, he'll stay the same character until someone that can carry the company shows up and the prospect of that happening any time soon is pretty low. Other than Miz it doesn't seem like anyone wants to work any harder than necessary.
Why can't he carry the company as a heel? I seem to remember some guy who was allowed to do that for like 3 years. It's not like he can't do PR as a heel. People know it's fake. They had Miz doing PR as a heel.
ReplyDeleteAs time goes by its just really doesnt seem that it will happen
ReplyDeleteWhat guy?
ReplyDeleteInvestors aren't interested in a guy that is mean to fans or does dastardly things to win. It is what it is. A publicly traded company always wants a milquetoast representative that offends nobody.
Triple H? And they went public in 1999. That's just an excuse at this point. Basically they're just not lazy and/or innovative anymore. Cena is Malibu Stacey with a "new shirt".
ReplyDeleteInvestors are interested in MAKING MONEY.
I'm having trouble remembering a time when Triple H was the corporate face of the WWE, in the beginning of his run Rock, Austin and Foley were around to do media appearances and by the end of his run we already had Cena. I'm not saying your wrong, just that in my mind it doesn't seem he was ever the go to guy for Make-A-Wish and stuff like that.
ReplyDeleteHaving a handsome, squeaky clean, drug free, milquetoast super face that offends zero people isn't lazy, it's exactly what every company wants. I would think especially this company, that basically has to deal with terrible press on a seasonal basis. Every time something terrible happens in the wrestling universe they can always point to Cena as the wave of the future.
I mean, seriously, we live in a world where entire media empires can be taken down with one drunk tweet, they'd be idiots to change what isn't broken in the slightest.
Now of course that makes for boring television for us adults but we're not their target audience anymore anyway.
There is NO scenario in which a Cena heel turn would initially draw boos besides cheating to end the streak. Not that he couldnt draw effective heel heat down the road but the initial turn would be cheered.
ReplyDeleteHogan wasn't cool, even as Hollywood.
ReplyDeleteI think a tag-team of black-clad badasses following a super-douche former top face could sell some t-shirts.
Some is legit hate heat, but alot of it I think is booing bc its "cool" to boo. Most fans respect Cena
ReplyDeleteNever mind the match. Imagine the promos those two could have cut together!
ReplyDelete*changes channel to Monday Night Football*
ReplyDelete*doesn't take kids to wrestling*
That is actually what I liken Cena to: HBK in Canada. All of his fans are either women or kids. The majority of men hate him.
ReplyDeleteMaybe not end the streak, but what if he was so obsessed to beat the Undertaker he aligned himself with HHH/Stephanie to become the corporate champ/merch machine they want?
ReplyDeleteCena goes into Wrestlemania as the biggest threat to end the streak and the fans will truly have no idea of who would win. The WWE could even "leak" a story that they are considering ending the streak to drive people nuts.
Stop downvoting me, Lita.
ReplyDeletePerish the thought they'd be allowed to watch a show you don't 100% enjoy. "I know you like wrestling kiddo's but I don't like one character on the show so you don't get to enjoy it!" Tremendous father of the year stuff right there.
ReplyDeleteBetter check their buyrates and ratings. First of all, you can go to the corporate site and see that 75% of their audience are adults and a very large percentage are in the geezer demo that gets ignored by advertisers
ReplyDeletewouldnt ending the streak be a short term thing tho?
ReplyDeletetaker is gone most of the year. so after the initial, 'oh my god, he killed taker!' shock, no one would care. he'd have to follow it up somehow, and thats the important thing, is how to book him as a heel moving forward
(not directed at your post in particular)
ReplyDeletei respect what cena has done, but it doesnt mean i'm not sick of his deal.
so annoying when peeps act like anyone who criticizes cena is just trolling.
actually the solution is simple:
ReplyDeletekids are the target demo, but their folks are paying for the tix and merch. so if youre out there with a kid who likes cena, stop paying for your damn kid to go and cheer and support him! that'll cut down on positive crowd response, and the wrestling world will once again be ours, muahahahahahahahahahah
spread the word, we're taking it back!
Yea, im sick of him also. youre kinding making my point, youd cheer a heel turn I bet. I would too. Its such a weird dynamic
ReplyDeleteRight, so there's no point in even counting them. Who cares how many older people are watching if advertisers have zero interest in paying for spots to reach them?
ReplyDeleteThe 24% under 18 is the real market and always will be (and whatever 18-24 year old's they have, the site wasn't very clear about that demo). That's where the advertising and merchandise dollars are.
Like I said, turning Cena heel isn't going to cause a bunch of 30-year-old's to start watching or buy merchandise. There is no benefit to it as long as they want to stay PG. Now if they were willing to go adult I think there's a very different potential for success, but as long as it remains a kids show then a kid friendly star should be the focus. And, for the purposes of investors and advertisers, I don't see them leaving the PG Era any time even remotely soon.
(By the way I have no vested interest really in Cena I just love talking about the business side of it more than the storyline side, I haven't been interested in the product in many years but remain fascinated at the industry.)
Your lack of capitalization should lead to you forming a tag team with CAPSMANLOCK. Youd be unstoppable
ReplyDeleteI didn't go to Raw last time it was in my town.
ReplyDeleteThe nWo had a coolness factor that I don't think anyone can deny. John Cena was considered cool once before. However, John Cena cannot revert back to the anti-establishment rapper character he was a decade ago after being the establishment for the past decade. The only thing he could do is be an arrogant corporate champ heel at this point. He won't sell any merchandise like that, and that's why he is never turning heel, at least for many years. In that time period, we will keep having the "bizaro world" where the number one face gets booed in almost every major PPV.
ReplyDeleteIt would be a perfect way to turn him heel, because it would legitimately piss of many people. People would be furious that John Cena of all people gets to be the guy to beat the guy to beat the streak, when it could have gone to an up and comer.. Anytime you can get people legitimately angry at a heel (Montreal ScrewJob Mr McMahon anyone) it is always good for business, as long as the heel gets it in the end. However, I know its not happening, but I would find it awesome.
ReplyDeleteThe advertisers also have no use for kids, either, 18-49's are the most important. No one is selling kids ads at 10:45PM on a Monday.
ReplyDeleteThe PG Era has also been a disaster for their stock price. They are misreading their target demo, like any other soulless corporate entity that's floating through life. Their only upside is that they have very little competition and that competition has its own constraints.
Their target demo is adults whether they realize it or not
My point...is that backed by the Shield (who are the analogues for the Outsiders) it doesn't matter if Cena is cool.
ReplyDeleteCena gives the Shield the main-event rub, and the Shield gives Cena freshness and coolness. You have a couple years worth of main-events, you MAKE the Shield as top guys and you sell a shit-ton of merchandise.
Yep. Ventura would be in my top five for worst wrestlers of the 80's. Great talker, maybe even better than who imitated in Graham.
ReplyDeleteI didn't go to RAW Monday in my town, and I'm glad I didn't since it was fucking terrible.
ReplyDelete