Hey Scott,Everyone has already discussed the technical problems with Death Before Dishonor XI, but here is my live report from someone unfamiliar with the ROH product, comparing to WWE.
I want to like them, really, but they just make it SO hard to.
Hey Scott,Everyone has already discussed the technical problems with Death Before Dishonor XI, but here is my live report from someone unfamiliar with the ROH product, comparing to WWE.
"For example, Steen delivered an F-5 to Elgin, but only got a two count.
ReplyDeleteA move as devastating as Brock Lesnar’s finisher should not be a set-up
to 12 elbow strikes and four powerbombs into a turnbuckle."
Except that, aside from being Brock's finish, the F-5 doesn't look that devastating. The complaint on the whole stands, but I have no problem the F-Cinq bering a signature move for Steen. It's not his finish, and the move that IS his finish, the package piledriver, is the most protected move in the company. ONE title defense in an entire year as champion featured someone kicking out of it. (Jay Lethal)
My favorite quote from the article: "Although Steen’s attire of basketball shorts and a T-shirt to cover his gut left a lot to be desired in a professional athlete, his ability to connect with the people briefly evaporated my WWE “tall, tan, and muscular” brainwashing."
ReplyDeleteIunno, I think the F-5 is a plenty credible finisher, at least away from Head Bumpville.
ReplyDeleteEspecially going from WWE style move pacing to ROH, the difference is just stark- Elgin got hit with a couple sleeper suplexes plus all those mentioned moves and he lost the match- going from the visual language of one to the other is just a bit of a shock.
ROH where every move has a 50/50 chance of having it end with an unexpected knee.
ReplyDeleteYou're a pretty good writer. I just don't think it's fair to compare ROH to WWE.
ReplyDeleteI can't remember who said it but there was a really good point made that the dearth of indy talent is because the glut that appeared between 1998-2006 (CM Punk, Daniel Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe, Austin Aries, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, Nigel McGuinness, the Briscoes, the American Wolves, Low Ki, Homicide, Chris Hero, Cesaro, and Sami Zayn) got involved because of the Attitude boom.
ROH just got decimated by the 2009 talent raid that cost them Daniel Bryan, Nigel McGuinness, Austin Aries, and perhaps most damaging was losing Tyler Black (who was poised to become a centerpiece for a few years to come). They've been hurt further by losing Hero and Claudio/Cesaro.
Elgin and Cole are good (Elgin in particular I'm a HUGE fan of) but there aren't guys left to give them a meaningful rub.
I think it's a bit absurd that Nigel has outlawed blading but guys keep getting dropped on their head nonstop.
ReplyDeleteand it turns out that El Generico is absurdly charismatic away from his mask and goofy gimmick. (I mean, it's a fun goofy gimmick, but it's still goofy). So that's another one.
ReplyDeleteUgh, I always hated Tyler Black.
ReplyDeleteAs Seth Rollins he's a billion times better. But it's clear ROH was going to be building around him.
ReplyDeleteOh I'm sure they were. But that would have been a mistake. I tried to watch the tvs for a while back when Ares was champ and Black was so obviously being built as the next guy but was even more obviously not deserving of it that I stopped watching.
ReplyDeleteWhat's weird is that the consensus felt the same way. I thought the fans turned on him pretty fast. Which isn't saying much as ROH fans became ridiculously fickle starting with Black.
ReplyDeleteHe was just a bland babyface and above average in the ring. He was nothing special. And it was so obvious that he was going to be the pushed down your throat face of the company. He was nowhere near as good as Danielson, Ares or Nigel (who I honestly always found overrated and contrived) and making him the champ was going to be a clear step down.
ReplyDeleteOne of my favorite moments as an ROH fan: I went to Glory By Honor VII and Nigel was wrestling El Generico. and there was a guy in my section just stonefaced with his arms crossed. I asked him why and he said, "I hate Nigel, and I don't want to boo because I don't want them to think I think he's a good heel. I don't hate him because he's a bad guy, I hate him because all he does is throw lariats."
ReplyDeleteI just hated the contrivedness of his signature offense. That stupid thing in the ropes and the headstand kick most of all. GTFO.
ReplyDeleteI think big problem with the talent raids in ROH were that it was usually the guys that were good on the mic and/or had enough in-ring charisma to connect with the crowd along with a decent enough athletic build that were stolen by WWE and TNA, which is why you still have guys like Roderick Strong still on the roster. Very good worker but has never really displayed enough charisma that could work on a bigger stage and there seems to be a lot of guys similar to this currently on the roster like Michael Elgin, Jay Lethal and the American Wolves. Not enough charismatic sizzle to draw the hungry fans in to the workrate steak that is ROH if that makes any remote sense (I put it like this because I'm feeling hungry and haven't had steak in a while).
ReplyDeleteAlso ROH was once the promotion that featured the best indy talent which seemed to stop after Sapolsky left and formed DG:USA. I mean could you imagine how awesome it would have been if Jon Moxley aka Dean Ambrose had a stint in ROH before signing with WWE.
So, who do you guys think could make it in WWE of the current crop of guys? Cole seems pretty likely, and I could see Elgin being an okay tag team guy, paired with someone who can talk and get the shit kicked out of him. Though I guess most of their roster could work as tag team guys? I unno, I'm still trying to figure ROH as it exists now out.
ReplyDelete