With Cena apparently returning and assuming he would eventually take the World strap off of Alberto Del Rio I starting doing some 2014 booking in my head.
Let's assume Punk wins the WWE belt at Wrestlemania. Don't ask me how, there are a million scenarios...probably by beating Orton although I would hope it's by beating Brock.
Both Cena and Punk would live in alternate universes for a while but all things generally lead back to those two meeting at a crossroad because for the last 2+ years that's the way it has been. And given the fact that these two guys bring the absolute best out of each other that isn't a bad thing at all.
So are we looking at a potential unification match by Summerslam and maybe just having one top guy?
Curious of your thoughts.
GoRays Pirates Tigers!
Let's assume Punk wins the WWE belt at Wrestlemania. Don't ask me how, there are a million scenarios...probably by beating Orton although I would hope it's by beating Brock.
Both Cena and Punk would live in alternate universes for a while but all things generally lead back to those two meeting at a crossroad because for the last 2+ years that's the way it has been. And given the fact that these two guys bring the absolute best out of each other that isn't a bad thing at all.
So are we looking at a potential unification match by Summerslam and maybe just having one top guy?
Curious of your thoughts.
Go
Yeah I know I am posting this a second time but since it involves Randy Orton it's a little more relevant to the topic.
ReplyDeleteI didn't feel motivated to be productive at work today so I came up with this instead. I have been saying on the blog that Randy
Orton needs to go full on Patrick Bateman and it got me to wondering,
what would Bateman's confession speech look like if done by Randy Orton?
For comparison sake I posted one beneath the other. Enjoy, (or
downvote...whatever)
Howard, it's Bateman, Patrick Bateman. You're my lawyer so I think you
should know: I've killed a lot of people. Some girls in the apartment
uptown uh, some homeless people maybe 5 or 10 um an NYU girl I met in
Central Park. I left her in a parking lot behind some donut shop. I
killed Bethany, my old girlfriend, with a nail gun, and some man uh some
old faggot with a dog last week. I killed another girl with a chainsaw,
I had to, she almost got away and uh someone else there I can't
remember maybe a model, but she's dead too. And Paul Allen. I killed
Paul Allen with an axe in the face, his body is dissolving in a bathtub
in Hell's Kitchen. I don't want to leave anything out here. I guess I've
killed maybe 20 people, maybe 40. I have tapes of a lot of it, uh some
of the girls have seen the tapes. I even, um... I ate some of their
brains, and I tried to cook a little. Tonight I, uh, I just had to kill a
LOT of people. And I'm not sure I'm gonna get away with it this time. I
guess I'll uh, I mean, ah, I guess I'm a pretty uh, I mean I guess I'm a
pretty sick guy. So, if you get back tomorrow, I may show up at Harry's
Bar, so you know, keep your eyes open.
Triple H it's Orton. Randy Orton. You're the COO so I think you
should know. I have RKO'd a lot of people. Some divas in the ring on
Smackdown uh, some jobbers to the stars maybe 5 or 10 um an RVD guy who
smokes weed in Central Park. I
left him in the parking lot behind the ECW arena. I RKO'd Daniel Bryan,
in front of his girlfriend, on a table, and some man uh some old faggot
with a sock last week.. I RKO'd another guy with some gold makeup, I had
to, he almost got the pin, and us someone else that I can't remember
maybe a Miz, but he's RKO'd too. And John Cena. I RKO'd John Cena on the
floor on a chair, his body is quickly recovering for Hell in the Cell. I
don't want to leave anything out here. I guess I've RKO'd maybe 20
people, maybe 40. I have a 3 Set DVD of a lot of it, uh some of the fans
have seen the DVD. I even, um, I DDT'd some of their brains and I posed
on the turnbuckle a little. Tonight I, uh just had to RKO a LOT of
people. And I'm not sure I'm gonna get over with it this time. I guess
I'll uh, I mean, ah, I guess I'm a pretty uh, I mean I guess I'm a
pretty sick guy. So if you and Steph get back tomorrow, I may show up
on Raw, so you know, keep the title vacant.
The only way to do that storyline is to have ridiculously long title reigns on each top belt. Cena holding the big gold belt for the rest of this year AND all of next year and having whoever's holding the WWE title holding onto that sucker for a super long period of time would make sense. Like a theoretical Anderson Silva vs. GSP match (before Silva got Weidman'd) you sell that match as "the only challenge either has left is to unify the belts". And it would absolutely do a huge number.
ReplyDeleteBut that kind of thing is just not practical in wrestling anymore. Even though Cena has been virtually indestructible over his run as a top guy, I don't think he can make it 2 years without an injury. Punk is breaking down before our eyes, I honestly believe he's doing the parallel universe thing because WWE knows that even if he re-signs he's just going to need to take a couple months off and get away from it all. Orton is one bad decision away from TNA. Undertaker and HHH are finished. Brock isn't sticking around long enough unless you want to let him take a belt, hold it hostage and only defend it 4 times a year (which would honestly be perfectly fine with me). It's unlikely they'd let Bryan be a super long term champion. ADR is not worthy of being in that storyline. Really this whole thing has to be Cena vs. Punk or Cena vs. Brock to be worth it and I don't think they can physically do it.
So I really like the unification plan but I don't think they have the guys who can do it.
Can make ban unification talk like we do with "turning Cena heel" talk?
ReplyDeleteIt's not happening. Ever.
Word.
ReplyDeleteTrudat.
(other various urban phrases of affirmation)
LMAO. So true.
ReplyDeleteUm. It has happened, hasn't it? Jericho?
ReplyDeleteI'd like this. If Punk / Cena don't get a WM Main Event, with a clean finish in my lifetime, I'm giving up on pro-wrestling.
ReplyDeleteI think the Jericho thing being so meh was because it occurred during a one night mini-tournament and happened at a nothing PPV. And really, Jericho had not yet been established as a tippy top guy and I don't think anyone really bought him as such even though he went over Rock and Austin.
ReplyDeleteIt might have worked better if they had done this at the Rumble, or WrestleMania (not sure what to do about the nWo) where they could have given the freshly heel Jericho more TV to make him the focal point and not have his win come off as so lackluster.
I don't think you need to cut two belts from the mix. The World title should be sufficient.
ReplyDeleteThe lower belts could still have value for the lower and mid card. Punk has the right idea. Create small universes where there's very little interaction with the other universes.
If they never did Champ vs. Lower Champ, you could have some interesting things.
That idea also kills the money in the bank gimmick dead as multiple guys would try to cash in on Cena/whoever and lose. But I'm fine with that also, that gimmick needs a break.
ReplyDeleteThen Eugene comes out and lays out both men announcing he isn't Eugene but wrestling machine Nick Dinsmore.
ReplyDeleteTake this for what its worth: I was listening to a Keller podcast with a former WWE writer. I highly recommend these by the way because they give a great insight into how Vince thinks.
ReplyDeleteHe said that Vince views a unification match as essentially a nothing, in terms of a draw. He said that Vince believes a straight up WWE title match will draw the same as a unification match if the same guys were in both. Does this mean itll never happen again, of course not. Just an interestng insight into Vinces thought on it.
Well, we never got Hogan/Flair. Don't hold your breath.
ReplyDeleteWell. Also, They didn't make a new belt. He didn't have a feud ready to cement him, and they made him Steph's bitch. It absolutely could have worked if they did ANYTHING with him after he won it.
ReplyDeleteRight. Vince thinks having multiple "championship" matches on a card is a bigger draw.
ReplyDeleteI think that's perception shaping reality instead of the other way around. He's 100% right in that right now it isn't a draw because they perceive it isn't a draw and book it like it wouldn't be a draw. Two or three times a year they have the WWE champion and the world champion wrestle for no apparent reason with no buildup and don't treat the match as a historic happening. The guys interact pretty often and one of them is usually perceived as being clearly inferior (not always the world champion, generally whoever the heel is).
ReplyDeleteIf they kept them in parallel universes where they never interact and book them both as dominant ass kicking champions then it would absolutely BECOME a draw. But Vince would have to believe in the power of the match in order to make that happen and until he believes, it would never happen. And like I said in my post below, even if they wanted to do that kind of thing I don't think they have the talent on the roster to do it anyways.
Im not sure if this was facetious or not
ReplyDeleteWell the guy who was being interviewed worked there years ago, so it probably has roots from years ago.
ReplyDeleteIt's pretty mich established wwe hasnt put value in the titles the past few years, so why would he put value into a unification of themn ya know?
ReplyDeleteMaybe after seeing Hogan make Flair himself look like a jobber for years afterward made Austin realize that Flair wasn't going to be able to stick up for anyone in that era.
ReplyDeletePresumably, Vince and the writers know how money those two are together and recognize it needs to happen. Maybe 31? I know this won't happen, as discussed here, but that would be another perfect moment for a Cena heel turn a la SCSA making a deal with the devil to beat Rock at WM.
ReplyDeleteWhat about this...
ReplyDeleteBryan FINALLY wins the WWE belt at Hell in a Cell. HBK wards off Corporate interference, Orton taps, decisive as it gets.
Same night Cena wins the WHC.
Survivor Series we get some Team Bryan vs Team Corporation match, and Cena defends against Del Rio or whoever.
TLC it's Bryan defending against HHH, say in a ladder match (so HHH doesn't have to straight job) in which HHH's Wrestlemania opponent (HBK or Austin or Rock, whoever) interferes on Bryan's behalf. Same night, Cena defends the WHC against Big Show or whoever.
Annnnnnd also at TLC we get Punk beating Brock in the blow-off to Punk/Heyman.
Sets up a pretty massive Royal Rumble '14 with the Cena/Bryan unification match, and Punk winning the Rumble. That'd be a huge show, and could nicely set up either Punk/Bryan or Punk/Cena for Mania.
As for the idea of holding off on unification match until both champions have had long reigns..eh, sure it'd be nice, but does anyone thing they'd ever be able to have TWO simultaneous long reigning champions? Frankly they'd be running through way too many challengers getting beat every month. And honestly I don't even think it would add much to the match— something like Bryan/Cena at teh Rumble, with all the great backstory that could play into it, would be more than enough to sell the unification match as a big deal.
From there, just book the IC champion in the same way they've been booking the WHC (which is to say, solid secondary champion) and the US title slips into its comfortable spot as the European/TV level title.
A cena heel turn has happened as well though, hasn't it?
ReplyDeleteThis is flawed. For it to happen in your lifetime, the time limit is your death. But if you're dead, it's too late to give up on pro-wrestling.
ReplyDeleteNot necessarily. Two guys in a row cashing in and failing to win wouldn't hurt the prestige too much at all given how successful it genrally is.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. No reason to get rid of the US or IC belts. In a world with a unified WWE champ, then the IC title can get a bump in prestige, while the US title serves its purpose as the jobber-to-the-stars title.
ReplyDeleteThat's my point :)
ReplyDeleteI get excited by any unification of the titles scenario.
ReplyDeleteIf you've been watching WWE over the past couple years, you've seen the IC Title holder lose the majority of their matches, and one of the world titles opening the PPV.
This is ridiculous and has just cheapened and watered down the titles to the point where no one cares anymore. Unify them. The Brand Extension Abomination is over, so we don't even have that as an excuse anymore.
I'd like to see Cena v. Punk on top. Trips v. Bryan, and Taker v. Brock as your three main matches.
ReplyDeleteHere's a new spin on the Money in the Bank idea. You have a super patient briefcase holder who is waiting for the right opportunity to make his move. Suddenly, he only has a couple months left before his contract expires. Now he's getting desperate, and suddenly the CHAMPION is the aggressor. The champion begins making every attempt to make sure that the briefcase holder is weak and gets injured, in hopes that they go on an injured list for the remainder of the contract. Money in the Bank is always used as a way to turn the briefcase holder heel. This might be a way to put sympathy on them and maybe even turn the champion heel.
ReplyDeleteTechnically, yeah. Sort of.
ReplyDeleteInitial Cena (RUTHLESS AGGRESSION, deck Angle) was a vanilla babyface, to where his tights would match a local sports team's colors IIRC.
Rappin' Cena at least tried to be heel for a while, but I don't think it lasted too long. Then that transitioned into the Cena we all know and love/hate/despise/etc...
I really believe that WWE likes selling as many toys as possible and that there is a belief that the more belts they have the more they can sell.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if it did happen, I don't think they put it on WM, because that show does a huge gate and buyrate regardless. I think they follow the pattern from the Jericho win and stick it on a nothing ppv in hopes they can pull out a second big ticket.
Actually, I'd unify the IC and US BEFORE I did the World/WWE. At least both the World and WWE titles are guaranteed a PPV spot and a constructed storyline. The secondary titles don't get that anymore.
ReplyDeleteBest idea I have heard in a while.
ReplyDeleteEither way, I'd only trim one belt.
ReplyDeleteDon't read the unrelated thread. its horrible.
ReplyDeleteThat...would actually be really cool. I like it!
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one who thinks that Cena would make a terrible heel? He'd go over about as well as Goldberg stalking a Nitro Girl. What would his heel motivations be? Even when he was a "heel", it was just the thuganomic rapping nonsense. Nobody ever looked at him as a HHH, Rock level heel because a rapping white guy is silly.
ReplyDeleteWhat heelish things could he possibly do that would be believable?
Well, Flair was always good at looking out for himself at the expense of other people (meaning he's like every other major wrestling figure of the past 50 years). , But in this case you also have to take into account that the statement was coming from a juiced up, psychotic ego-maniac with a shaky grasp of the English language and who always seemed to be one angry glance away from killing someone in a fit of 'roid rage. I put absolutely no stock or truth in anything that comes out of that jack-ass's mouth, assuming I can actually decipher what comes out of his mouth into a language spoken by humans.
ReplyDeletethe fact that Austin likes Flair and seems fine with how Flair treated him in WCW means a hell of a lot more to me than what Scott Steiner thinks of how Flair treated Austin.
When he's played heel in matches (like vs rvd) he has been good.
ReplyDeleteAs to heel motivation? Same as Bret harts vs stone cold. He played by the rules, did the right thing, but still got booed. Now, he will do it for himself.
He can play the heel in the matches, but I don't see him turning into a whiny heel in his promo work. I think he wouldn't like it, and wouldn't really sell it.
ReplyDeleteHis heel offense is much better than his face offense for what it's worth. The matches where he's taken on the heel role like vs. RVD, vs. Punk at MITB/Summerslam, vs. Rey on TV among others, the matches flow a lot better and look a lot better.
ReplyDeleteWhen Cena came back from his injury and quit doing the throwback and the top rope leg drop and changed them to special occasion moves, his face-style offense took a hit. Given all the power moves and "wearing down" moves he has, he really does have a heel moveset right now and has been miscast in the face role for years.
He could absolutely pull off the wrestling side of it. He couldn't be a whiny heel, cowardly heel or paranoid heel like Austin tried. He'd have to almost be a cool heel like Nash where he just says whatever he wants and plays it off as snarky as possible. I don't know if he has the charisma to do that but it's the best idea.
Yeah Steiner was entertaining to listen to back then and now but you don't take anything he says seriously.
ReplyDeleteIf HHH is a true JCP mark, he'll never allow the evil people to take the Real World Championship belt off the air.
ReplyDeleteDont' even need to make one heel. They hate each other and want to win the title (assuming their match would be for a title) and let the crowd decide who to cheer and boo for.
ReplyDeleteFlair went out of his way to make sure guys didn't get elevated.
ReplyDeleteyeah, that guy is right! Never get rid of the Big Gold Belt!
ReplyDeleteYou say that, but many guys, including Lance Storm, have said they believe Steiner over Flair.
ReplyDeleteThe best motivation is the Rock loss I think. "You mean I slaved away for a decade so that you could boo me for a guy that doesn't give a SHIT about wrestling?!" Writes itself.
ReplyDeleteI guess I shouldn't be expecting any Red Sox love.
ReplyDeleteLance Storm wasn't in WCW when Austin was, so I don't how he'd have much to add. Again Austin himself seems fine with how Flair treated Austin. Why would his opinion matter less than that of a psycopath and a guy who wasn't even in the company at the time?
ReplyDeleteUm, how exactly? Flair jobbed a shit ton during his whole career.
ReplyDeleteYes, it didn't last long, but stuff like pissing on Taker's grave is absolutely heel.
ReplyDeleteHow many times did he job in any meaningful way? Listen to guys like Vader, Steiner, Foley, Austin in the '90s, even Funk in an old shoot, and they discuss the way Flair politicked his way into keeping his spot.
ReplyDeleteFoley's first book goes into detail about Flair's self-serving booking. Look at the way he sabotaged Luger and Steiner (see their Clash match) just for a start. Storm, after having watched their Clash match, offered some comments on the situation here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhYvhvR0Y3U
I hate to say this but Vince has a point. To us more hardcore wrestling fans a title unification match means a lot more than to the casual fan and it's the casual fan that Vince is probably more interested in attracting to his product because most hardcore wrestling will watch anyway regardless. They attracted a lot of casual fans during the attitude era. By comparison I started high school in 97 when most other kid's opinions of wrestling was that it was lame and fake. By mid 98 a hell of a lot of kids were now watching it thinking it was cool. A year later practically every single boy in my year were either fans or had watched a bit just to keep up with the new trend it had become, and even a teacher had a poster of The Rock in her classroom. I think that is the sort of fanbase Vince would love to re-establish again.
ReplyDeleteI also want to make a point about the whole Vengeance title unification fiasco as it seems to me that the then WWF had the resources in video libraries and the ability to produce excellent video packages to promote the whole Vengeance unification mini-tournament to the casual fan. For example I really got into wrestling after Backlash 2000 and the main reason I chose to watch it (other than the fact it was free on British TV) was because of all the excellent video packages hyping it on Heat which was my first and only source of wrestling before I got Sky TV. I only watched Heat out of curiosity and boredom but the fine video packages WWE are capable of producing really began my journey into a hardcore wrestling fan.
Well I fucking hate Detroit after last night, so I'm pulling for Boston in this series.
ReplyDeleteSurvivor Series could use a hook to be honest. Unification wouldn't be a bad way to do it.
ReplyDeleteKind of like Warrior vs Hogan.
ReplyDeleteRays and Pirates should definitely go to the World Series. I don't think tigers have a chance to beat Oakland though.
ReplyDeleteHe turned heel BEFORE the rapping gimmick. Turned on Billy Kidman, IIRC
ReplyDeleteYeah. That would work.
ReplyDeleteI think the best way to turn him heel would be to do a Corporate Champion/Hollywood Hogan type of heel turn.
ReplyDeleteThe people who hate him now hate him because he's the over-promoted goody-goody face of the company - just acknowledge that. Have Triple H or whoever the heel owner is do everything they can to make sure he remains the champion because it's best for business. Have Cena still act like the same goofy idiot he is now only he acknowledges he's doing it for the money - he sells millions of t-shirts to kids, he makes money, the company makes money, etc...they don't have to change him all that much and since the most passionate Cena fans are children and marks it's not that hard to turn them against him - he says mean things, makes fun of them for falling for his act, buddies up with the bad guy owners and screws another top face out of the title.
The Champions appear on both shows, most of the guy's they'd consider for a unification match have held both titles, the WHC is a mid-card title now and chances are they split the titles again 6 months later...so I don't see the appeal to unifying the titles.
ReplyDeleteI would assume if they unify the belts, it would be at wrestlemania 30.
ReplyDeleteWell Austin made it to the 2nd round of this tournament. Something!
ReplyDeleteThey sell "classic" belts; they'll be fine.
ReplyDeleteCena could be a Kurt Angle kind of heel in the sense that HE thinks he's all squeaky-clean and awesome and motivates the kids, but no one else does.
ReplyDeleteCena ain't getting the WHC again.
ReplyDeleteA unification match could be a hell of a hook for WM31 - that show is going to need something after (presumably) Cena/Taker this year.
ReplyDeleteThat Taker/Cena feud in 2003 was pretty great. Totally made sense for both of their characters. I think it helped Cena out too.
ReplyDeleteNice to see Beltran take care of the scumbag Dogs tonight~!
ReplyDelete