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World Series Thread

Discuss the game here tonight

Comments

  1. Kurt Angle in his prime was an A+ player. He was amazing in the ring and on the microphone. Maybe John Cena wouldn't be the star he is today without that first match with Angle.

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  2. I think its anyone you feel can be "the face of a company" for a stretch. Guts like Batista didnt have the longevity but he was an A+ guy for a short run IMO. To not put Flair or Rock at that level is insane IMO. Id say HBK is an A+ guy also, yea I know his run with the strap failed business wise but the shittness of the product he was headlining, along with his longevity and in ring work make up for that.

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  3. Rock definitely deserves to be on the list. He was almost as much a draw as Austin.


    I would submit Rowdy Roddy Piper. He brought the heat to the emerging WWF, he was one of the greatest talkers of all time, and had a lot of main stream popularity with They Live and other movies.

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  4. HBK is a great worker, but he's never been the guy to carry a promotion. And his interviews were snoozefests until right before Montreal.

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  5. Is this an e-mail from Dougie?

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  6. The Rock is soooooo overrated.... He's repetitive on the mic. and an average worker.... If it wasn't for Austin and Foley i doubt The Rock would be as big time as he is in wrestling

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  7. Dudes headlined 3 WMs, was at the top of the card almost his entire run and is responsible for a plethora of great matches. What is missing with him?

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  8. Everyone dislikes the truth huh?

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  9. I hate the myth that Flair was only a draw in the Carolinas. Flair was a huge part of WWE and WCW during some really crucial time periods. If Flair isn't an "A+" than no one is.

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  10. We dislike delusion.

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  11. Rock was extremely popular and was a perfect heel foil to Austin.

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  12. Transcending the industry. HBK was great, but he's not at the level of Hogan/Austin

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  13. Exactly.. Without Austin he wouldn't have been such a big time wrestler.... Austin was the man after wrestling Hart and HBK, he took wrestling to a whole new level...The Rock just rode his coat tail and never took the business to a new level of success.

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  14. I agree with this. Like I said, I define it as a guy you feel can carry your company for a stretch. Its subjective, but its like saying Tim Duncan isnt an A+ basketball player because hes not the crossover star MJ or LeBron were.

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  15. His schtick hasn't aged well, that's a fact.
    But no one was saying that 10 years ago. No one. His mic work was in a league of it's own, and he was a totally decent wrestler.

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  16. He jobbed to Brock in a sub par match and went to Hollywood.

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  17. Rock was the man in 2000 WWF. He also headlined movies which no wrestler ha ever done.

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  18. On skill level no, but I think the question was asking about cross-over appeal as well.

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  19. You know this is a simulated sport right? That match REALLY cememted Brock.

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  20. I guess no one bought the last 2 Wrestlemanias.

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  21. That was a great match and it showed how Rock could adjust to a hostile crowd. Going to Hollywood was the best thing to happen to him.

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  22. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:09 PM

    Rock was completely exposed being the ring with punk.

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  23. If thats the criteria, Rock and Hogan have to be A+++++ players Id assume.

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  24. If you're just talking about athletic ability then Michaels is obviously one of the very top guys.
    But he never had the mainstream appeal that Hogan, Austin, or Rocky did. He's definitely a rank below those guys in as a total package.

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  25. It exposed that wrestling a match is the best way to train for wrestling a match

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  26. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:10 PM

    Flair is definitely an A+ guy.

    Great on the stick
    Great in the ring.
    Great politician, until hogan came

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  27. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:11 PM

    On the mic as well...

    Cookie puss?

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  28. Didn't take the business to a new level? When's the last time we saw a wrestler host Saturday Night Live?


    Rock was arguably a larger part of wrestling's ascension to the cultural consciousness in the Attitude Era than either Austin or Hogan.

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  29. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:13 PM

    Going back a few...

    Lets talk about Gorgeous george wagner... changed the face of wrestling and was the first real tv draw

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  30. The absolute upper echelon is Hogan, Austin, and Rock. Those are the only names that everyone, even lifetime non-fans, are very likely to know.

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  31. Rock come across as someone trying to act like The Rock.

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  32. Fair enough. I guess I just hate being a huge part of the criteria. If it happens, like Rock or Hogan, fucking awesome. But to exoect that when grooming a top guy is just so unrealistic IMO. It would be like drafting an NBA player based on his potential "crossover appeal" as opposed to if hes the best basketball player for your team.

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  33. Cookie Puss is the dumb shit create comes up with. If they would let Rock shoot a little bit or go a bit ad lib with Punk I know we would have had so amazing promos. Many people disagreed with me but I think Rock should have been wrestling (at least a few matches on Raw). He was expected to come in and work 30 minute matches after not working regularly for years. His only work was with Curtis "Wonder Bread" Axel in between movie takes.

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  34. Fairly certain they were both given free reign to say whatever they wanted in those promos. Cookiepuss seemed like something Rock would come up if he was trying to hard to me.

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  35. Id argue Flair is right on that cusp.

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  36. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:15 PM

    Well mainstream appeal, could ten people pick him out at an airport?

    2. He was a product of the wwf machine. He would be HBK without vince, whereas hogan would be hogan.

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  37. Bingo. His act was outdated at that point. Doesn't mean it wasn't awesome in the moment. In a way, it made CM Punk even more awesome b/c you realized how right he was when he called Rock out on his "tired lame-as schtick." Good thing WWE hasn't taken advantage of Punk's ability to own people on the mic... Oh, wait...

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  38. And really that doesn't surprise me. Separate yourself from a lifestyle for 10 years, and see if you can jump right back in at top form.

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  39. THIS.


    You shouldn't have to host Saturday Night Live or be on The Tonight Show to be considered an A+ all-time great.

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  40. How soon we forget HBK in Playgirl.

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  41. Bullshit, that lame ass shit was from "creative". They should have brought Ed Ferrara in to write his stuff. Ferrara did most of his stuff in the late 90's.

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  42. I agree. His act hasnt beem great the past few years, but that shouldnt jade our perception of his entire career. How many of the A+ guys we listed were the same at age 44 or whatever he was?

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  43. 2012 and 2013 Rock is not the same as 2000 Rock. This is extreme, but 2007 Hogan wrestling matches doesn't make WM3 any less spectacular. And you definitely shouldn't compare 2007 Hogan to 1986 HOgan. You can say the same about Flair.

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  44. I thought Gewirtz did most of his stuff?

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  45. And I wouldn't argue too hard against you.

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  46. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:17 PM

    In the south, definitely, but while he was the wrestling fans favorite wrestler, wasnt americas fave.

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  47. After Ferrara left. Fuck Gewirtz.

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  48. I wouldn't agree that he was a product of the machine. HBK got himself to that level(with some help from the clique), the machine is what brought him down and forced him to reinvent himself with DX.

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  49. By that definition Andre the Giant and Macho Man are also household names.

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  50. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:21 PM

    Flair... Funk... 89

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  51. All time great WRESTLER, no, but you have to give some additional credit to those few who have brought wrestling to the mainstream.

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  52. I'm not saying that he was never great, he was. Just that his comeback sucked.

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  53. I cant argue he wasnt mainstream. Like I said up too, I just hate that being such a big part of the criteria. If it happens with Rock or Hogan, thats the TITS. To expect it from a guy whose trained as a wrestler is just unfair. Think A+ guys should just be guys that can carry your company for a stretch.

    The analogy I used was drafting an NBA player, you dont draft a guy based on his potential "crossover appeal", you draft him if hes the best player and can help your team.

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  54. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:22 PM

    No austin... no rock

    Fact.

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  55. Flair and Funk are also the only guys who were still able to have great matches well into their 50's. They are both freaks.

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  56. Andre I would also hear an argument for, actually, maybe even moreso than Flair. Around here Flair wouldn't count, but I'm giving him credit as being bigger in the south. I dunno.
    I stand by my original statement, but Flair and Andre are both near misses.
    Flair never really crossed over into other entertainment to any significant degree, did he?

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  57. No, Rock would have been a megastar no matter what. Might have taken a little longer with Austin but it still would have happened.

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  58. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:26 PM

    He did some tv spots... but no, nothing major

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  59. This is a good discussion. It opened up another can of worms...should Vince lean towards a guy with great crossover mainatream potential, or a guy whose a better wrestler (ring work, ring psychology, mic work.)?

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  60. Does this involve time travel?

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  61. Vince has killed crossover with these ridiculous NXT gimmicks the new guys are given.

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  62. So whats your overall take on the Rock? A+ or smudge below?

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  63. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:29 PM

    Depends on how business is.

    If its up and they are on a hotstreak go for the gamble and get somebody for the glitz and glamour.

    If business is down, stickwith wrestling. Wrestling brought you to the dance and will always make money if presented logically.

    All the gaga is hotshotting to and usually only works in the heat of the moment.

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  64. Austin, Hogan, and Rock if you have to pick 3. Hogan played a huge role in different decades, first in the 80s and then with the NWO in the 90s. He made wrestling mainstream. Austin brought the Attitude Era and made wrestling "cool" after it was made fun of for years. The product was red hot when he was on top. Rock was the ultimate foil to Austin and carried the company for years too. All of these guys are well known behind just the ring as well.

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  65. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:30 PM

    Rock is a+ all the way, but his way was paved by austin.

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  66. If the guy is any good, he'll shed his gimmick eventually.

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  67. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:32 PM

    He was gonna get the shove, but he would have not have been THE ROCK

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  68. If the 2013 versions of Hogan and Michaels walk in the door tomorrow, I'm pretty sure I know who Vince is running with.

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  69. Just the pragmatist in me by shouldn't we define what A+ is first. I'm sure not everyone sees work rate and TV appearances the same in figuring out a wrestler's worth.

    I mean, at the end of the day wrestling is a work. Therefore, shouldn't we rate more towards the guy who made the most money?

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  70. This. If business is good, the fundamental wrestling product is probably really good. Push for mainstream pub at this point since itll only last a few years.

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  71. He was also part of big AWA, WCCW and Mid-South shows.


    People who argue "He was only a draw in the South" actually mean, "He wasn't a draw in his prime in the North East."

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  72. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:35 PM

    Hogan wins, austin second.

    Taker 3rd

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  73. I was rooting for a random Rock/Jericho title match on Raw during WrestleMania season and didn't get it.

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  74. And who he should run with.

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  75. Which, history being what it is, is what matters the most.

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  76. He was already THE ROCK before he even interacted with Austin. When he made that heel turn, you know they had something special. The Austin/IC feud just sealed it.

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  77. In 2012 it was a breath of fresh air... but in 2013 they had gone to well one too many times. Especially doing the feud with Cena over again. The whole act was stale.

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  78. So if Hogan, Flair, Rock, Austin are the only A+ guys (you fuckers have talked me out of HBK), whats the next tier?

    HBK, Bret, HHH, Taker, Savage?

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  79. The Savage feud in 95/96 did great numbers and ratings. The Hoosier Dome was awfully full for Mania 8 as well.

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  80. I can agree with this.

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  81. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:42 PM

    Nobody is gonna convince me that in early 97 people knew that the rock would go on to become on the all time greats.

    He was a goof stuck in a midcard gimmickuntil fall 98 when he rocketed up the card.

    There wasnt a hint of main eventer or top guy before austin.

    Like I said, austin was THE GUY. Everybody was made around him.

    Rock
    Foley
    and then HHH

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  82. Bret is but Cena isn't? LULZ!

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  83. I'm not sure why hazing guys with a stupid gimmick is their idea of a good business model.

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  84. Why not? The consensus is "mainstream counts", hes more crossover then Bret. Hes not the worker but is fine in that regard, has had a much longer run then Bret on top and has drawn more money then Bret ever has.

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  85. Andre. He's been dead 20 years, but anyone alive long enough has at least a passing knowledge of him He was on the cover of SI and in a major motion picture.

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  86. I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or arguing with me.
    Since I didn't explictly state whatI meant I guess I set that up.

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  87. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:44 PM

    Sorry, im in the "cena is an A+ guy"

    He does everything.
    Workrate
    Promo
    All american look (mrs fuj loves him)
    Mainstream appeal.

    His schtick is just old as fuck

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  88. I was pissed he defend the belt on Raw. This would have popped a nice rating and gotten more eyes on Raw heading into Mania.

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  89. That's what I mean. Cena is definitely above Bret.
    The first group is Hogan, Austin, Savage, Rock.
    Then you get Cena, HBK, HHH, Taker, Flair, Piper. I'm not sure if Hart even belongs in the second group.

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  90. Vince would run with Hogan. Which is who he should run with.

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  91. Krispy Kreme McDonaldOctober 30, 2013 at 7:47 PM

    He aint in my second tier

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  92. I still have no idea if you're serious that Vince would push 2013 Hulk Hogan on tv.

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  93. I was thinking about it and I think I tend to agree. He hits all the categories, has drawn top 5 money, and his duration at the top is only rivaled by a few.

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  94. Worked wonders for TNA.

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  95. Yeah, he's probably third tier with HHH and Piper. I don't feel comfortable grading anyone earlier.

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  96. I don't mean Hulk Hogan in 2013. I mean if a 26 year old guy with all of Hogan's attributes walked in the door.

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  97. The 2013 version of Hogan. Not Hogan in 2013.

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  98. A+:Hogan and Austin are A+ players and Rock has eclipsed both.
    A: Ric Flair and Andre you could make arguements for and against. Flair was more "last of a dying breed" than trendsetter. Andre was a star but there's a reason why Vince Sr. let him travel the world instead of having him headline MSG every month. I think in death people realized just how big Randy Savage was. I bet when Roddy Piper passes it'll be just as big a deal as when Savage passed. Gorgeous George is only an "A" due to how long ago his era was.
    A-: John Cena (currently at Flair's level, but not touching the other 3), Bret Hart (known name from the 80s boom period, huge in canada, but was never going to be more than the bridge between the hogan and austin eras), Sting (his feud with the nWo could've been austin/mcmahon huge), Rey Mysterio (He's to 06/07 Mistico what Billy Graham was to Hogan)
    Potential A's(B+ and down): Goldberg (if Bischoff wasn't so loyal to Hogan, he would've built WCW around him... of course this only delays WCW's demise by 5 years at best. If not that then UFC's comeback in 05 would've hurt Goldberg's aura). Undertaker (great attraction like Andre, but not someone that the company can build around). Billy Graham could've been what Hulk Hogan became.

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  99. Oh ok. But they probably make him shave his head...which would have looked way too weird.

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  100. John Cena is a hell of a hard working guy, and that's exactly why he is where he is.
    But yeah, just a little played out.

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  101. Half the audience hates him and wishes he never appeared on TV again.

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  102. Cena really hasn't grown the business either. Many fans have left during his tenure on top.

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  103. Is Brock Lesnar an A+ or a special situation?

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  104. He had a chance at being the GOAT if he stuck around, was into it, and wasn't put on Smackdown.

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  105. I'm not saying that he's an A+ guy, but I would definitely let him be an A or an A-.

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  106. I think its slmost impossible to really grow the business now. The WWE has reprogrammed us into thinking the brand is the draw. Even the Rock only the moved the needle a little.

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  107. I was living in MN from when he won NCAA titles to trying out for the Vikings with the wrestling in between. The guys name was EVERYWHERE in MN and the Dakotas (him starting off wrestling at a JUCO in North Dakota and being born in SD)

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  108. Hes such an outlier. I think you really need a substantial run on top really qualify

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  109. Not my era of expertise, but shouldn't Bruno be getting some A+ love?

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  110. I'd say an outier as well. Just an interesting name since he blew up huge with UFC and all.

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  111. I really don't feel comfortable rating anyone before my frame of reference. Bruno? Race? Brisco? Funks? Backlund? I don't really feel like I could grade Dusty either.

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  112. Neither do I but just glancing at it, he seemed to have everything we are talking about.

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  113. More left before he was on top than have since he got to the top.

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  114. But does he really? You're counting on second hand reports which could be biased and give a limited picture.

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  115. UFC and WWE are different beasts but you gotta think Brock would have had some of that same drawing power if he stayed. There is just something about the guy...

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  116. I don't think that there's many of us here that lived through him though.
    Plus, he was still really a regional guy. Not even national, let alone international.

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  117. You would have to compare numbers from 05'ish vs. now. He has been the perfect white bread smiling face to help WWE go into the PG Era, if you view that as a positive.

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  118. You could almost say Superstar Graham or Bob Backlund were more important in the grand scheme of things.

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  119. yeah he's a freak of nature and I think would have drawn well after he left.

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  120. The US was much more fragmented in Bruno's time, but I would say that being the top draw in NYC has to count for something.

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  121. Ric Flair...Ric fucking Flair...the nature boy...wasn't an A+ player??????? Get. The. Fuck. Outta. Here.

    Seriously Bruno, Rock, and flair belong on that list with Austin and hogan.

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  122. I literally watch wrestling to this day because of Flair.

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  123. It's a bit different because if you were to relate the sports world to the WWE then Tim Duncan is not an A+ player. Hes a very talented, future hall of famer who has four championships but he would not have been considered a draw. Duncan's counterpart would probably be Bret Hart. The A+ players would be Kobe and Lebron. They lead the league in jersey sales, they're key players in the nba's global expansion, and sell out every single game that they play in. Remember when the Spurs went to the finals against the Pistons and ratings slumped a bit. You would not want Tim Duncan to carry the nba at any point in his career.

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  124. I watched a lot of bad years of wrestling just because I was a Bret mark.
    Doesn't make Bret an A+ guy.

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  125. Yeah there is absolutely no way he's not at the absolute pinnacle of any metric you want to measure a pro wrestler by.

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  126. Flairs the only one. Funk wasnt A+, he was a niche guy who could just work that style forever.

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  127. Bret was awesome, but he's no ric flair

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  128. Is there anyway to know how much merch Cena stuff moves? Does WWE release that info?

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  129. And neither one of them is Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan.

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  130. Flair was a major draw in that context, in an era where the performer, not the brand was the draw, did it all over the country without anything close to the marketing and infrastructure Austin and hogan had (Vince). Oh and he cuts the best promo of anyone ever

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  131. Hogan, Austin, Rock, Flair and Bruno.

    When you sell-out MSG more times than anyone else, you're an A+ player. Go back and watch the crowd reactions he got. Unlike those who came along later, he wasn't on a national (and later worldwide) television program. For his era, he gets an A+.

    Before Hogan took off in 1983, Ric Flair was the #1 draw in professional wrestling (source: Dave Meltzer). He drew all over the country and all over the world. During the Monday Night Wars, Flair's segments usually had the highest tv ratings for Nitro.

    Hogan is a no brainer. Ditto Austin. Rock makes the list due to his Hollywood career. As a wrestler, he was always treated as the #2 babyface behind Austin (except for Austin's injury). During the Attitude Era, Austin = Hogan, Rock = Savage/Warrior/Whoever was Number 2.

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  132. Umm... one of the reasons Flair was NWA champ so long is that whenever he visited a local territory their attendance and ratings went up. The NWA was probably at it's strongest during his reign, and I'm willing to bet Flair helped a lot of promoters (and wrestlers) pay their bills pre-WWF expansion.

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  133. Considering Vince Sr. built his company around Bruno for over 12 years, I'd disagree with your statement.

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  134. This constant notion that anyone who wasn't Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin wasn't a 'draw' or is ridiculous. This is just another way of saying that.

    What's also ridiculous is the idea that Flair wasn't a draw outside the Carolinas.

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  135. And Larry Bird isn't Michael Jordan. God, that Larry Bird guy sucked.

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  136. "During the Monday Night Wars, Flair's segments usually had the highest tv ratings for Nitro."


    I find that hard to believe. And Rock was more like 1B to Austin's 1A.

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  137. Not being among the absolute top 2 or 3 guys in no way equates to "sucks".

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  138. You lose all credibility at "Flair isn't an A+ player"

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  139. True, however those guys helped set the stage for Vince Jr.'s national expansion.

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  140. Bischoff mentioned Flair got their highest ratings.

    Austin was always THE guy, while Rock played second fiddle. While Austin is fighting Foley and Triple H, Rock is fighting Billy Gunn.

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  141. I don't live in the south, and so I may be ignorant to that area, but for my sake I have literally NEVER seen anyone wear a Ric Flair t shirt outside of a wrestling event.
    Hogan and Austin, in their day, were on every street, everywhere.

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  142. Before Hulk got big, Flair was the #1 draw in pro wrestling.

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  143. You could put Flair in the 1950's Gorgeous George era, 90's ECW, the PG Era, any era etc. and Flair would be one of the most compelling guys on the roster.

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  144. That's not fair to Bruno. Vince Sr. didn't want to go national due to the pact the NWA promoters had. Besides, cable had't come into play at that point.

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  145. So were nWo shirts, does that make Buff Bagwell an A+ player.

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  146. No, his mother makes him an A+ player.

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  147. No, and that's not remotely apples to apples.

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  148. Stranger in the AlpsOctober 30, 2013 at 8:29 PM

    How the fuck do you say Ric Flair is NOT an A+? Who are you? Jimmy Snuka after a coconut shot? Or Jimmy Snuka on a cocaine-induced murderous rampage?

    That's like saying Tom Cruise is NOT the face of Scientology.

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  149. They never made a cool Flair shirt.

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  150. You could even make an argument for Roddy Piper and Randy Savage being A+ players

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  151. Maybe if his career was from 1983-1994.

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  152. Flair isn't an A+, like the emailer said, didn't draw for shit outside the territory.

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  153. YES! I agree completely.

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  154. You make some very valid points.

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  155. Nwo = Hogan/Nash/Hall, come on man get real

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  156. That isn't an indictment against Rock. And where does Bischoff mention this?

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  157. He mentioned it in an interview for a WWE DVD. I'm pretty sure Meltzer has mentioned it before.

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  158. And Stone Cold would've been a "silent heat" heel in the olden days.


    Stun one promoter/popular wrestler, and watch the riot.

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  159. Anyone heard of Rikidozan? The dude put Japanese wrestling on the map. He had major political power and influence in Japan. He was killed by the Yakuza. Research up on this guy.

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  160. Nor would it be just about who is the best basketball player. That's only part of it.
    If Player A is the best player that the game has ever seen, and Player B is also good, maybe a step behind, but is more recognizable across the world, then Player B > Player A for our purposes here.

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  161. Piper was very popular and also made some movies.

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  162. Yea, but he never had a prolonged reign as "the guy". Think this excludes him

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  163. Yes. There would be no Japanese wrestling without him. Lets do Japanese A+ guys: Rikidozan, Liger, Baba, Misawa, Kawada, Inoki.

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  164. WWE DVDs, the last bastion of truth.

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  165. I should know better than to believe anything Easy E says.

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  166. If you ask a random person to name you a pro wrestler they'll say Hogan or Austin or Rock....some may even say "the guy with the mask that got the shit kicked out of him" , some MAY even say Undertaker or Macho Man....no one ever says "Oh pro wrestling, isn't that what Ric Flair did?"

    I love the Seattle Mariners but I'm not gonna expect a non baseball fan to remember Dan Wilson.... Flair is an A, but we all need to realize he's not an A+..

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  167. People are actually trying to put flair with hogan, rock and austin? Hilarious!!!!!!

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  168. Flair was having 5 star matches with Rick, Steamboat, Terry Funk, and Sting. Bret got to face Carl Roulette, Isaac Yankem, and Yokozuna. Flair got booked to go for an hour. Bret got booked to feud over a jacket.

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  169. Rock never really did either. I think Piper is another unique case that's hard to really pin down. He was a pretty damn big star.

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  170. I would have said John Olerud, but that's just me

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  171. Does Stan Hansen get considered?

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  172. Number 1 american over there for many, many years.

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  173. There's no way anyone who isn't remembering 1998-99 says Foley over Flair, and Undertaker/Savage is probably more about WWE/F than the guys themselves.

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  174. Hogan and Austin obvious.

    Andre & Savage have to be on there.

    Rock is a nobrainer. They made just as much $$$ in 2000 as they did in 1998.

    Same for Flair. Its BS to say he only drew in Carolina. WCW went national on his back.

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  175. If you are only judging A+ by main stream attention then no. I'm viewing A+ as someone who was very over, the best at what they did, made money, great worker, could carry a promotion / territory, etc. Are you viewing this as a mainstream popularity contest?

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  176. Funny you mention baseball, because it's become a tradition here in Pittsburgh to mock the other team when the score is out of hand with "Woooooooooo". Everyone is well aware its a Ric Flair thing.

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  177. Ask someone from the South.

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  178. They have Ric Flair lottery tickets for Christ sake.

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  179. I don't doubt that sometimes a Ric Flair segment drew a higher rating than nWo but consistently? No way.

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  180. Yes. Mainstream popularity is heavily weighted in this case, that's for sure.
    Carrying a broomstick to a 5 star match and then cutting a wicked promo does NOT carry as much weight in this discussion as does headlining a major motion picture released internationally.

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  181. Rocks longevity, massive cross over success, plus all the other tangibles puts Rock ahead of Piper Rocks headlined 4 manias. Can think of (5 if you count 16) is a top Hollywood guy and headlined the biggest buyrate match ever. I dont think its close

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  182. Only 1 guy has been successful in movies.

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  183. I hope that is sarcasm, because being a movie star has fuck all to do with wrestling.

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  184. WRESTLING vs. Sports Entertainment.


    Shit like this makes me wish the NWO had FLOPPED MISERABLY, even though we probably lose a lot of legendary stuff as a result.

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  185. "WRESTLING vs. Sports Entertainment.

    Shit like this makes me wish the WRESTLEMANIA had FLOPPED MISERABLY, even though we probably lose a lot of legendary stuff as a result."



    FTFY.

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  186. It does, only in that it makes you more of a household name.

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  187. I had to fix mine because of that.

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  188. Lets stop with Savage alsom. Fucking great wrestler but not an A+ guy.

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  189. He is a household name to a lot of people who give zero fucks about wrestling. Why should that count?

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  190. The goal of wrestling is not to have a great match. It's to have a match people will pay to see.

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  191. Stranger in the AlpsOctober 30, 2013 at 8:51 PM

    The more I read who people think are A+, the more I believe that Triple H is a pretty, jealous prick who really is fucking with people who might possibly get bigger than he ever did.

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  192. I'm not shitting on the excellence-of execution. In fact he might be a slightly better worker but you can't even compare their promo skills

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