Morning boys and girl. For all the talk that goes on here about HHH, Flairs A+ credentials, Montreal, Invasion, and some jobber named Chris Walker, it's rare that we ever discuss one of the few real game changers we've ever seen...Mr. Steve Austin. He's a personal favorite of mine, so I'm gonna give him some dap and go to him for our "what if."
What if Stone Cold never returns after his broken neck? It seems like with the passing of time, the severity of Austins neck injury is really forgotten. Things to consider...
- The Austin "rise to prominence" timeline: Austin wins KOTR/debuts "Austin 3:16" June 23, 1996. Austin/Brett submission match: WM 13, March 23, 1997. Austin breaks neck: Summerslam, August 3, 1997. Austin wins first WWE title, WM 14, March 29, 1998. Also, WCW would beat the WWF in ratings every week from June 17, 1996 to April 6, 1998.
- Does Austins loss force Vince to keep Bret due to the lack of depth on top?
- Who fills his spot? If Shawn goes away after WM 14 with his back injury, does WWE have ANYONE who can headline at that point?
- Does Vince ever fully transition to the Attitude Era philosophy without the perfect babyface to usher it in?
- Does WWE ever get out of the financial doldrums they were? If not, do they collapse or fall back into a regional promotion?
- Was Austin so crucial to the rejuvenation of the WWF, that losing him enables Turner to kill the WWF?
Just some food for thought. Go in any direction you like.
** Random sidebar of the day** I've got another 2 weeks off from the E.R., and am trying to find a good tv series to watch. Any suggestions? I've seen Oz, The Wire, Sopranos, Homeland; Breaking Bad, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and Parks and Rec. through completion at some point in my life, so please avoid those.
** Also, how fucking awesome is this guy...
http://deadspin.com/warning-if-you-troll-a-professional-boxer-on-twitter-452727665
Tootaloo Motherfluckers
What if Stone Cold never returns after his broken neck? It seems like with the passing of time, the severity of Austins neck injury is really forgotten. Things to consider...
- The Austin "rise to prominence" timeline: Austin wins KOTR/debuts "Austin 3:16" June 23, 1996. Austin/Brett submission match: WM 13, March 23, 1997. Austin breaks neck: Summerslam, August 3, 1997. Austin wins first WWE title, WM 14, March 29, 1998. Also, WCW would beat the WWF in ratings every week from June 17, 1996 to April 6, 1998.
- Does Austins loss force Vince to keep Bret due to the lack of depth on top?
- Who fills his spot? If Shawn goes away after WM 14 with his back injury, does WWE have ANYONE who can headline at that point?
- Does Vince ever fully transition to the Attitude Era philosophy without the perfect babyface to usher it in?
- Does WWE ever get out of the financial doldrums they were? If not, do they collapse or fall back into a regional promotion?
- Was Austin so crucial to the rejuvenation of the WWF, that losing him enables Turner to kill the WWF?
Just some food for thought. Go in any direction you like.
** Random sidebar of the day** I've got another 2 weeks off from the E.R., and am trying to find a good tv series to watch. Any suggestions? I've seen Oz, The Wire, Sopranos, Homeland; Breaking Bad, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and Parks and Rec. through completion at some point in my life, so please avoid those.
** Also, how fucking awesome is this guy...
http://deadspin.com/warning-if-you-troll-a-professional-boxer-on-twitter-452727665
Tootaloo Motherfluckers
I'm guessing if Austin breaks his neck, HHH takes his spot earlier.
ReplyDeleteWith no Austin after Summerslam? I don't know- the entire "Attitude" era was based around Austin as the rebel against evil boss Vince McMahon. But McMahon doesn't become the evil boss without screwing over Hart.
ReplyDeleteOne possibility- switch the roles. Have McMahon screw over Michaels and make Hart his corporate champion. That works until Michaels is hurt by Wrestlemania (though with no Michaels/UT match at the Royal Rumble, maybe Michaels doesn't hurt his back). If they can survive to the next year, they'll have Rock and Foley at the main event level.
My two "What if" suggestions:
1) If Hogan stays in the AWA, who does the WWF build around? JYD? Snuka? The WWF was ready to make the leap, but if it's not Hogan, who takes the place as the fed's centerpiece?
2) If Hogan cleanly loses to Sting at Starrcade 1997, how is WCW booked in 1998? Does the Goldberg phenomenon still happen? Does Sting remain 'in the rafters'?
TV suggestion- it's a little old, but "Homicide: Life on the Street" is great of you like Oz and the Wire. Skip the last season and the rest is fantastic.
I would think that the Michaels/Hart feud would start sooner which throws off a few things. But also when Austin came back he changed his style to what because the "WWE Style" that Vince wanted others to emulate. So with Austin not coming back everyone's style would be different.
ReplyDeleteGive "The Shield" a shot, especially if you liked "Oz" and "The Wire".
ReplyDeleteGood show. I also suggest Buffy the Vampire Slayer (skip season 1) and Angel, Supernatural, and Firefly.
ReplyDeleteDoes Austins loss force Vince to keep Bret due to the lack of depth on top? Possibly, depends on whether Vince wants to fully transition to the Attitude era or not.
ReplyDelete- Who fills his spot? If Shawn goes away after WM 14 with his back injury, does WWE have ANYONE who can headline at that point? Undertaker with Owen or Bret as the other face at that time. If Bret leaves, Owen has to get pushed up the card into that position against HBK and perhaps wins the belt at Mania. Kane probably gets shunted aside quickly after Mania to allow Taker to run on top. Dr Death comes in at this point too but gets more of a realistic push without Austin taking up the Texas badass spot. Foley, Rock and HHH are still allowed to make their more organic runs up the card. Other reliable hands like Shamrock/Vader etc. probably get to play a more important role in the upper card throughout 1998 too.
- Does Vince ever fully transition to the Attitude Era philosophy without the perfect babyface to usher it in? All depends on whether he keeps Bret or not. I think HBK pushes him down that DX/Attitude path and pushing the envelope was one of the things they had to do to combat WCW.
- Does WWE ever get out of the financial doldrums they were? If not, do they collapse or fall back into a regional promotion? They run primarily in the North East until they can get back on their feet. They probably focus more on international revenue too. Do they speculate to accumulate with Tyson too? Because with Austin gone they don't have one of the natural foils for him.
- Was Austin so crucial to the rejuvenation of the WWF, that losing him enables Turner to kill the WWF? He was crucial but the question really is can WWF hold on until WCW eventually implodes (because with that many egos steering a rudderless ship it was always going to). I think we see a lot more WWF/ECW interaction and Vince perhaps taking a gamble or two to lure a big name back from WCW.
Weeds is pretty good. Dexter.
ReplyDeleteI've watched a few of the shields, never could get into it for whatever reason
ReplyDeleteI liked weeds for the first few seasons. Kinda went over the top after that.
ReplyDeleteThe first four seasons of "Dexter".
ReplyDeleteCHRIS WALKER IS NOT A JOBBER! In fact HE gets the spot if Austin doesn't come back.
ReplyDeleteFun Fact: Chris Walker is better than you
Especially Roman Reigns, that guy is going to be a star! Wait what? You meant something else?
ReplyDeleteYeah. There were several cool moments after that, but the average quality dropped immensely. The end of Season 4 makes for a nice open-ended series finale too.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how Chris Walker feels about this...
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJBk9lGci6s&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Friday Night Lights....That is all
ReplyDeleteVince turns Bret back to babyface to counter heel DX. Bret sets the world on fire with dry promos about DX's immaturity, pointing out the many times throughout his career he was commended for his maturity. Bret holds the title until Wrestlemania where he beats Shawn in a career ending match, where, if Shawn lost, he'd also have to come out of the closet. After the match Bret knocks out Mike Tyson with a shoot punch in defense of women everywhere, as the Hart Foundation and many of the boys in the dressing room who broke character in a fit of emotion rush to the ring to hoist Bret on their shoulders and, with tears in their eyes, celebrating the deserving WWF Champion.
ReplyDeleteThis kicks off the Corporation angle, with Vince constantly commending Bret for being a model employee but occasionally asking him to do something he doesn't want to do, which pisses Bret off. The angle catches fire due to Bret's undeniable charisma and sex appeal, as he feuds with Undertaker, Kane, Mankind, Shamrock and eventually an emerging Rock, carrying to them to what they'd each later confide was the best match of their career.
Bret was gone no matter what. A couple different scenarios:
ReplyDelete1. Shawn doesn't hurt his back, keeps the title past WM while they build up Rock for 99.
2. Shawn still hurts his back. Drops the title before WM. Rock wins the tile at Mania.
3. Shawn still hurts his back. Drops the title to Taker. Taker/Kane for the title is the new main event. Build up Rock for 99.
3 is the most likely in my opinion. Also, Austin sticks around as the on air commish or whatever to feud with Vince and Rock. Either way, WWE is fine. Just delays the big boom by a year or so.
Whoah whoah there. It's obvious Bret Hart has sex appeal but charisma? Let's not get ridiculous here!
ReplyDeleteCurrently in season 5 of "Dexter" and loving it. I've also followed "Sons of Anarchy" since day 1. Can't go wrong with either.
ReplyDeleteThat boxer is my new hero.
Ahmed Johnson gets his push instead and the ratings triple as everyone is impressed with his charisma and ***** matches.
ReplyDeleteNo Austin means Vince shifts gears into panic mode. At the point it all went down, Austin had the rocket strapped to his ass and was leaving everyone else behind. Assuming that along with Austin not returning, Shawn still feuds with Undertaker and still fucks up his back. In between, Bret still leaves for WCW. Who does that leave? A freshly face turned Vader? That ship had sailed. The Undertaker could never carry a company the way Austin eventually did. And Rocky had not been "discovered" yet. He was still toiling in The Nation, tweaking his character. I guess that leaves Mick Foley. With those options, the WCW ratings lead is prolonged until Rocky comes along. I guess it's possible that someone from WCW sees an opportunity with Austin's absence, and maybe jumps ship, but who? No one available in WCW at that time would have been that big of a deal. Or maybe they turn Kane face earlier, and give him the rocket push.
ReplyDeleteA somewhat hidden nugget of entertainment for you. If you like Parks and Rec, and The Office, and you have a Netflix account, watch Ricky Gervais' "Derek". The staff of a nursing home gets the "documentary film crew" treatment. You would have to slog through a bit of a thick British accent at times, but it's only 7 episodes, and episode 5 is the motherfucking funniest shit I have seen in a long time from a British comedy.
Big, bald, a goatee - he's black Steve Austin.
ReplyDelete"I guess it's possible that someone from WCW sees an opportunity with Austin's absence, and maybe jumps ship, but who?"
ReplyDeleteWWE was negotiating with Sting in 1997 so I guess its possible they make him an offer he can't refuse to replace Austin.
I know one thing: no matter what happens in the WWF, WCW still collapses under the weight of their own constant stupidity.
ReplyDeleteThough the WWF not making it's big comeback probably means that ECW hangs around for at least a couple years longer than it did.
Yea, I rremember reading that. So many repercussions if sting jumps...no starrcade 97, who becomes the top wcw babyface opposing nwo, etc.
ReplyDeleteI've never been a huge Sting guy but that he keeps them afloat till the new wwe crop is ready
Are they also impressed with the way he murders people in the ring?
ReplyDeleteLong-running shows: The Shield, Sons of Anarchy, Dexter, Lost, The League, Modern Family, Raising Hope, Scrubs, The Office (until Carell leaves)
ReplyDeleteSingle-season shows: Freaks and Geeks, Firefly, House of Cards, Orange is the New Black
Community is the best sitcom in existence, next to Arrested Development! I can't stand Big Bang Theory
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, I can't find any video of it, but Repo Man hung The British Bulldog in much the same manner, kicking off the worst feud of 1992.
ReplyDeleteBret vs Sting would have done a monster buyrate.
ReplyDeleteGo with sons of anarchy. First 5 seasons are on Netflix, and this season is probably all on your cable on demand. Or go pirate the two seasons of party down
ReplyDeleteI hate it
ReplyDeleteYea, I always intended on trying to get into that but never watched it for whatever reason. I think that, Justified, and Walking dead are the front runners so far.
ReplyDeleteThe Office ended when Steve Carell left. The James Spader season was nothing but a figment of our imagination. It NEVER happened, ok?
ReplyDeleteJCP showed footage of Magnum TA hanging Nikita Koloff by his chain.
ReplyDeleteThey actually had one of the bloodiest matches I had seen (up until that time) in MSG.
ReplyDeletehi scott, jr
ReplyDeletewhich spot are we talking here?
ReplyDeleteNot his liver spot or his dog Spot, that's for sure.
ReplyDeleteWatch Justified. SOA season 1 is a good first season, 2 is the best so far, three is uneven with a great finale, four is a mess, five is meh, six has been good.
ReplyDeleteJustified is really, really great. Can't recommend it enough.
Watch Community.
ReplyDeleteheres your cookie!
ReplyDeleteThat was the first thing that I thought of when I was watching this. Worst feud of 92 is probably a bit harsh actually, given that Undertaker alone feuded with Berzerker & Kamala during that year. We also got Bossman v. Nailz, Tatanka v. Martel, Skinner v. Jim Powers & Natural Disasters v. Beverly Brothers in 92, so really a feud with a hanging angle matches up quite favourably.
ReplyDeleteThat's the show i was referring to. Never liked it. Abeds dream machine? Saw one where they were video game characters. It really annoyed me
ReplyDeleteWas referring to Austins, but "not his liver spot or his dog spot..." works better
ReplyDeleteUndertaker carries the title until Rock gets over as a main eventer.
ReplyDeleteYou have to watch from the beginning. You can go back and watch random episodes but it's way too involved with callbacks and meta jokes to just dive in.
ReplyDeleteIf you liked Scrubs I'd recommend Cougar Town. If you can get through the first five or six episodes it REALLY develops.
I don't even remember the whole Jim Powers-Skinner thing. But actually, that whole "attempted kabobbing of The Undertaker" thing was crazy. Attempted murder is a long lost feud component.
ReplyDeleteWTF was with Steamboat's throat? He have a big, red X painted there that was visible only to heels?
ReplyDeleteI don't think they mad it higher than a few episodes of Challenge (maybe one episode of Superstars), but I definitely remember a few matches between them from back then. Also, if he hadn't attcked Vince backstage and been fired*, Nailz was all set to feud with Undertaker in early 93, possibly culminating in a match at the Royal Rumble.
ReplyDelete* - I think that's what happened. That's what I remember hearing at the time.
Diggin Muroco's finger blade
ReplyDeleteI could see Chris Walker in the Gilberg role.. You know, if Gilberg wasn't available or something.
ReplyDeletequit downvoting me, duane
ReplyDeleteChris Walker would find this comment to be very insulting and would plot revenge upon you at a future time.
ReplyDeleteI love it. I watch episodes every night before I go to sleep, never gets old.
ReplyDeleteCougarton Abbey. There's only 6 episodes, but that's what's great about British television - it gives you closure.
ReplyDeleteYou know, even though Ahmed was injuring people and was down on his luck in late '97, he just had the look of a badass that you didn't want to cross. I can see the WWF turning to him if they needed some star power, but Ahmed was made of glass and kept breaking down, so he wouldn't be the most reliable option. Didn't he injure the Rock and that was the last straw for him in the company?
ReplyDeleteI'd argue it was too early for the Rock to take the belt at WrestleMania XIV. He was getting good heat, but he got the title at the right time at the end of 1998. He was a much bigger star then than the beginning of the year.
ReplyDeleteHey Farva, I don't know how many of these "what if's" you be able to feasibly pull off before the well runs dry, but I gotta say that every single one of them has been MONEY so far. Keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteHa, this was great. It makes me wish Bret was the Higher Power in 1999. That would've been AWESOME.
ReplyDeleteIt's an older show, but Crossing Jordan is on Netflix. I used to stay up late and watch the reruns while I was in high school. It's a CSI-type show, but without all the technology shoved down your throat. I enjoyed watching all six seasons, but the third season is out of order, so it makes no sense.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that's really all that far fetched, other than the 5* matches, if he could have stopped wounding himself and others.
ReplyDeleteI've heard that if it wasn't Hogan, that they were considering Tito Santana (and no, this is not one of those jokes based on Tito saying he was on the shortlist to get the belt in 1992). TITOMANIA RUNNIN' WILD! ARRIBA!
ReplyDeleteAs a kid, there was nothing more exciting than watching Ahmed Johnson squash jobbers in 1995 and 1996. Like Vader, his stuff just looked brutal (because it WAS) and that Pearl River Plunge finisher was awesome.
ReplyDeleteOh for sure, he was a beast. They were behind him too, until the clumsiness became apparent.
ReplyDeleteL O S T. 24. Fringe. The X-Files. Arrested Development. Freaks & Geeks. The Office. Veronica Mars.
ReplyDeleteI agree it would have been too soon but there weren't many other options.
ReplyDeleteOh, I agree. The Big Bang Theory really has one joke per character. Seven years and Raj still can't talk to Penny. They're THAT scared to change anything.
ReplyDeleteThen over on Community, you have multiple parallel dimensions, the characters from the Darkest Timeline dimension trying to infiltrate our world, epic paintball battles which parody movie genres, the imaginarium, giant mechanical spiders, and on and on. And somehow it all makes sense.
Community took a few episodes to find its footing as well. Once they started getting weird, it started getting good.
ReplyDeleteThanks man. Yea, I'm REALLY trying to stay out of strictly fantasy booking land with them so might try and think of a new topic next week to alternate with them.
ReplyDeletePrincess, you would know. Is this the only match of Hogan's (outside of WM IX and KOTR) during his fifth WWF Championship run?
ReplyDeleteMicrosoft programming is mostly retarded. I think that's the best answer we'll get.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Bray is a bad talker, I think he cuts bad promos. The material is cliche and stupid.
ReplyDeleteAnd the reason I'm worked up about Bray is because he doesn't fucking fit. How are you going to get a feud between CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, the two most realistic and complex characters on the roster, and have them feud with a villain from a B-Horror Movie. Wrestlers should be superhuman, they should be exaggerated, but Bray is just...why is he wrestling? Why isn't he kidnapping people on the side of the road and killing them? Give me a reason, and "tough guys wrestle" is a lame one.
Read Scott's article about gimmicks vs. characters. It applies.
And Kane and Taker in their full on "souls and hellfire" phase are some of the WORST people on the roster. You can't feud with them without dropping to their level of complete corny bullshit, and then the other guy has to get into a feud another actual character after being dragged to hell.
- Who fills his spot? If Shawn goes away after WM 14 with his back injury, does WWE have ANYONE who can headline at that point?
ReplyDeleteThe Rock. In the absence of Austin, The Rock becomes "The Guy."
- Does Vince ever fully transition to the Attitude Era philosophy without the perfect babyface to usher it in?
Sure, because Austin wasn't vital to thet edgier programming. A lot of people say Shawn/Bret ushered the Attitude Era into overdrive and you still have Rock/HHH to have their ladder match that makes both guys, establishes HHH as a main eventer, reinvigorates DX, etc.
- Does WWE ever get out of the financial doldrums they were? If not, do they collapse or fall back into a regional promotion?
Yes, just not to the same degree perhaps. Think ratings highs of 4 or 5 as opposed to 8.
- Was Austin so crucial to the rejuvenation of the WWF, that losing him enables Turner to kill the WWF?
No, not even close.
...Oh yeah.
ReplyDeleteAt the time I was kinda thinking/hoping that's who it was.
ReplyDeleteAre you trolling?
ReplyDeleteYou there, with the Austin avatar, do you care to share which parts you find disagreeable?
ReplyDeleteMan, I really think you're underestimating Austins overall importance at this time. I don't think wwe goes belly up, I do think almost everything changes tho.
ReplyDeleteBret and Shawn did usher in the AE, DX symbolized it, but Austin was the face of it. Austin vs Vince completely drove that vehicle. They were just so dominate and entertaining alot of the miscues under them went unnoticed.
While I think Rock was always pegged as "the next guy", I think it's way to early to give him the rocket push at 14. Think it's more likely Taker gets the strap and they run with Taker/Kane for awhile then maybe Taker/Foley for awhile
"Who fills his spot? If Shawn goes away after WM 14 with his back injury, does WWE have ANYONE who can headline at that point?"
ReplyDeleteThe answer is easy. VKM calls up Chris Walker and he Main Events for the next decade plus. He would just now start to get phased out even with Raw doing ratings in the 6.0 to 7.0 area due to him.
Disclaimer- Yes I'm going to beat this Chris Walker joke to death until it isn't funny to me for those wondering.
The parts where Austin wasn't vital or crucial to anything.
ReplyDeleteUnless I'm misreading you.
Yeah, I agree - what scenario would you think comes up that captivates the wrestling audience as much as blue collar worker starts fighting with his white collar boss? I can't see any combination of personalities w/o Austin pulling it off. It wasn't going to be Bret, *definitely* wasn't Shawn, Rock was only just getting into his heel mode...
ReplyDeleteYour timing in bringing this back is absolutely impeccable. I am in awe.
ReplyDeleteYep. And once you get past the whole "evil foreign menace" phase, I bet Muta could have gotten over HUGE as a babyface in that era too. Muta masks at merch stands and such.
ReplyDelete