Hey Scott -
Thanks again for your support. Wanted to share some big pieces we've done in the last week.
We rank the ten best *wrestling* matches from Halloween Havoc - complete with videos of the matches and commentary:
We break down TNA's worst gimmick matches:
Check out our Kevin Kelly and ROH approved weekly Ring of Honor recap:
Our Grappletalk podcast, fresh off being credentialed at the Manchester event, had some great interviews, including the recent TUF competitor eliminated:
The Hard Travelling Fanboys put together a monster piece on the Death of Superman:
Todd gave us his five scariest comic book characters as part of his Five SPOOKS of Doom:
Thanks again for your support of the site!
No problem. I'm working graveyard this week so I'm prepping episodes of the Place To Be podcast as we speak.
Just because he's not the champ doesn't mean he's being punished. Look at Ziggler... now THAT'S a guy being punished.
ReplyDeleteYea, I agree. They dont hate him, just see him as a main event fill in/upper card guy, who isnt good enough to push as "the man." Think Kane (98ish), Foley, Punk, Jericho.
ReplyDeleteFair disclosure is that I haven't watched RAW since WM. But from what I've read Bryan has been front and centre of the top storyline of the company for several months now.
ReplyDeleteYou can certainly argue that they aren't pushing him the way that you'd LIKE to see, but I don't buy that they would run with the guy in that position if anyone really didn't like him in any significant capacity.
Important to remember: Just because the WWE isn't pushing a guy you think should be pushed to the level you think he should be pushed to doesn't mean Vince is hanging photos of him in all the urinals.
ReplyDeleteThis might sound weird but some of the irrational views on daniel bryan around here (not talking about this email specifically) is starting to make me like him less.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't sound weird.
ReplyDeleteNaw, those photos are on HHHs urinal
ReplyDeleteIf you told anyone when he started nxt especially Brian that he would be a world heavyweight champ, 2x wwe champ with wins over orton and cena at summerslam, and main event almost 10 ppvs, they would be thrilled with that result. Right now, everything else that he does is just extra goodness.
ReplyDeleteWell, cena was supposed to go over Bryan originally at summrslam. And he pinned Orton several times during their feud clean. So I think its silly to say they hate him. Hell, I think he's got a few more main event runs in him.
ReplyDeletePiss off with this logic and rationality. We only tolerate unbridled impotent anger here!
ReplyDeleteAgain, I think the real factor for giving him a run on top is for him to play their own game of delusion and manipulation, like Shawn did back in the 90's. They like him just fine, just like Vince liked Foley just fine, and came to see the value of guys like Jericho or RVD. But the reason a "small/unconventional" guy like Shawn got to have a legit run on top wasn't just b/c the crowd loved him and he could go in the ring, it's b/c backstage he was every bit as self-deluded and manipulative as Vince was, and got inside HIS head like Vince gets inside everyone else's (esp. the commentators *rimshot*).
ReplyDelete*insert Pat Patterson joke*
ReplyDeleteI'd be more disappointed if they weren't using him to give Bray Wyatt his big chance. Holy crap, do I want things to work out for that guy.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the idea that Vince or anyone HATES Bryan is ridiculous— he obviously has gotten what they would consider a huge push in the last year. And hell, I'd say that his run from Wrestlemania 29 through Summerslam was one of the most nicely handled arcs that anyone has had in years, as Bryan was consistently beating guys higher and higher up the ladder until the big match with Cena.
ReplyDeleteAnd honestly, I don't think my feeling or the feeling of people on the blog is that Bryan needed to get the God push and walk into Mania 30 as a long reigning champion. I wasn't asking for him to be pushed as the next Hogan/Cena. My thought though is that they still could have gotten exactly where they wanted in the end (HHH mega heel, Orton as champ, Authority vs Cena at Mania) while still making Bryan look like a much bigger star than what they did the last few months. I don't think it was malicious, just terrible booking.
I mean, what the fuck was the benefit of making the title vacant for 6 weeks? It obviously did shit for the ratings or buyrates, and I'd assume it had to have hurt house shows a bit too. I mean, they're obsessed with keeping two world titles to goose house show events, and then they go SIX WEEKS without a champion for absolutely no benefit.
So basically, I still don't understand why Bryan couldn't have gotten a legitimate title reign in the fall. Summerslam goes off the air with Bryan as champion so that at least that's the story of Raw the next night and cements him as a STAR. Bryan gets a successful title defense at NOC against Big Show in a David and Goliath match, and then Battleground and Hell in a Cell is where Orton enter the picture, HHH turns heel to give Orton the title, and everything is where it is now.
Or even do the same stupid Summerslam footage, let Bryan's win at NOC stand, Bryan and Orton have some kind of schmozz finish at Battleground where Bryan retains, and then you do the same finish at HIAC.
At least Bryan gets a real title reign. Again, not saying he needed to get a Hogan push. But for Godsakes, the way they booked everything the last few months just did damage to everyone.
It's funny but would Orton and HHH have even gotten over as heels if they had pulled the same move on Cena rather than Bryan? I figure the Summerslam crowd would have been psyched about HHH pedigreeing Cena's ass. And then on Raw from week to week, most of the Cena beatdowns would get cheered too. I just don't think anyone could really turn heel at this point by turning on Cena.
ReplyDeleteOne more quick thing about Bryan, in relation to this and the idea that Summerslam was a bomb because Bryan isn't a draw.
ReplyDeleteIf Vince can't make a shitload of money off a guy who is getting the kind of unanimous, gigantic crowd reactions ALL OVER THE COUNTRY that Daniel Bryan gets... well then that's Vince's fault as a promoter. Vince busts his ass trying to make guys like Sheamus—who frankly has gotten consistently mediocre reactions his whole time as a face— into the new Hogan, and then something like this falls into his lap and he totally punts it. The bottom line is that Vince is suppossed to be the greatest wrestling promoter of all time, and he has a guy who all his crowds lose their shit over. He should be able to make some fucking money off of that.
Crowd response and drawing power aren't the same thing. Those people responding in the arena are your base: your longtime fans who already willingly part with their entertainment dollar for WWE tickets and merchandise.
ReplyDeleteBeing a draw means you're expanding that audience. That's a crude definition, sure, and how that audience is expanded can be measured in multiple ways.
And I'd dispute this notion of an attempt to make Sheamus into another Hogan or anything of the sort. Yeah, he was pushed hard as a monster heel with the WWE title right out of the gate. But then he was demoted. He was turned face because he was getting huge reactions, but even as world champ- which had obviously been a secondary title for years- he was barely presented as one of the top three or four faces.
After how many failed "rocket pushes" (Swagger, Sheamus, Ryback, Del Rio) that ended up hurting the guy in question more, i'd say its better to let Bryan hover in the main event scene a little longer to make damn sure it sticks. At this point its a given that he belongs as a main eventer and that massive cheating is required to keep him from being champ, so let's ride that out by giving him a month or two where he can beat Harper and Rowan and Wyatt cleanly so he can be seen handling bigger opponents easily, and then swing him back around to the title. its like when you're shifting gears, you gotta pull off the gas to shift into higher gear.
ReplyDeleteI dunno. He very rarely lost matches and has three finishing moves. Id say he was def one of the top faces. I never got why he lost that big show feud though, I thought that was to set him up as a strongman
ReplyDeleteI'm with you on that. I think they pop huge for HHH pedigreeing Cena. Orton probably gets cheered the next night as champ. I'm assuming Orton & HHH beat Cena down to put him on the shelf, which probably gets cheered to
ReplyDeleteI assume the story would have less beatdowns to cena, more poopy jokes. And more moaning about cena pinning members of the shield.
ReplyDeleteThe blog ruined CM Punk for me. I really can't stand him now.
ReplyDeleteOf course, it's easy to forget that according to interviews, Bryan *himself* doesn't really care where he is in the card other than that he can earn a living. He's done numerous interviews to the effect that he's happy where he is. All the bitterness (including what Scott has in his post) doesn't really change that everyone else (Bryan, HHH, Vince, etc.) seem pretty happy that he is where he is.
ReplyDeleteNever mind that in the view of the lowered ratings and buyrates, they even took a business hit to try pushing the guy.
My problem is with the storyline and not the result. They didn't finish it!
ReplyDeleteThe mark of a great face is how hard they cheer the heels for being him up.
ReplyDeleteHe could be just just playing the good corporate solider in those interviews. Coming out and and criticizing/questioning ones place within the company typically doesnt go over well.
ReplyDeletePlus if Cena ever gets in trouble again, they know they can easily plug Bryan in. Bryan has come out of every program he's been in, arguably more popular than he was going in.
ReplyDeleteI think a run with Punk and the Wyatts plus Vince will be fine. The only thing I really hope is that fans shit all over other people trying to steal the Yes chant. Dbry deserves to own it.
This is information he volunteered - not information he was questioned about. He basically brought it up apropos of nothing; that's a little bit beyond the conspiracy theory "he's just playing a good corporate solider" stuff, I'd think.
ReplyDeleteThats fine. I just dont buy that a guy in his position, at the cusp of potentially being a "made man" in the wwe isnt hungry or motivated for more. I dont think hes building HHH voodoo dolls, but I dont buy hes comoletely satisfied with where he is either.
ReplyDeleteI think the true test is Wrestlemania, to mirror what Bryan said they have Cena, they have Sheamus on his way back, they'll have Taker on the card, Brock on the card and most likely HHH on the card, no matter how well they've pushed his character this year or how badly they might push him later, it's all pretty much down to how high they fit him on the card and that's how you'll know if he fits into the larger scene of Vince's plans.
ReplyDeleteI mean him getting a WM program with HHH would be hitting the jackpot considering how much attention H likes to put on his program around WM time.
What's to say though that his idea of "made man" isn't different than what your idea of "made man" is? I'm not saying that antagonistically - not everyone is driven by the fame. He's already had prominent public wins over everyone in the roster, and storyline wise he's acknowledged as one of the greatest wrestlers in this generation. He may legitimately not want any more.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe that for a second, the guy is a pretty good natured fellow but he wants to be on top just as much as anybody else.
ReplyDeleteHA, you just made me think of an interesting q. No way it would ever happen, but let's pretend that
ReplyDeletea) HHH vs Bryan is a match for WM
*and*
b) it *headlines the card*.
What happens?
a) this blog has a collective riot at HHH for having the ego to make himself part of the main event
b) this blog has a collective orgasm over the fact that HHH and the head brass see enough in Bryan to put him in the WM main event
c) the world explodes?
Based on what observation? Not trying to be contrary but everything Bryan has said in interviews, etc. etc. contradicts this. Am I to take it that everyone on this blog has a better idea of Daniel Bryan's headspace than Daniel Bryan?
ReplyDeleteI wss thinking more of the monetary benefits that accompany being a tippy top wwe guy. I just dont think you work indy shows for years, overcome what hes overcome to get to where he is, and then when youre at the cusp of the pinnacle of your career say "naw, Im cool with where I am. Potentially headlining a string of ppvs...eh, Ill take it or leave it."
ReplyDeleteOkay, from the monetary/stability perspective I totally agree with you.
ReplyDeleteThat's slightly unfair. Say what you will about the overall angle, but the build for SummerSlam was pretty good.
ReplyDeleteI think Vince looks at Bryan as the type of guy who can make ANYTHING work. Seriously, if you replaced Zack Ryder with him during that Kane/Eve/Cena storyline, I guarantee Bryan would have come out of that looking great somehow.
ReplyDeleteThey've already done it when Del Rio was trying to mooch off it. I see it as a DB thing and not for anyone else. No-one else has even done the taunts when not in proximity to DB. This is just a lot of internet marks getting their panties in a bunch because they're not being given EXACTLY what they want.
ReplyDeleteI think Vince looks at Daniel Bryan and says to himself "Would I think this guy's a star, if I saw him at the airport or a supermarket? No fucking way! Goddamn it!".
ReplyDeleteOr maybe he just doesn't want to end up like Dolph Ziggler?
ReplyDeleteBig difference between then and now, however.....there's no WCW. Michaels was given a run on top because he was a hot act and the WWF was facing steady competition that turned into major competition once the NWO showed up.
ReplyDeleteToday, WWE doesn't "have" to push any act they're not 100 percent comfortable with, politics or no politics. In fact, can you imagine someone trying to be backstage maneuverer from the midcard today? You just know HHH would ferret that out (he would recognize it, after all) and bury that guy.
I think one of the differences between DBry and the guys you mentioned (Swagger, Sheamus, Ryback, Del Rio) is clearly ring ability. Part of the reason he got over is because of his ring skills. That's how it was with me; I got hooked the first time I saw him work. Then, unbelievably, he has a level of charisma and comedic timing the other guys seem to lack, as evidenced by the angle with Kane.
ReplyDeleteI really don't like to play "what if" games, but I can't help but wonder how or if the buy rates for the PPVs since SS would have changed if DBry had been allowed to keep the belt, at least until the next night on Raw. What if he gets jumped during an in ring promo, Orton cashes in, and then DBry wins at the next PPV and we do away with the whole abeyance angle? Then maybe he and Orton trade at the next two PPVs. He can wind up with the belt, or Orton can. I think he would have looked stronger, particularly if THE AUTHORITY hadn't buried him on screen at every turn. Make DBry look legit, even if the end game is to have Orton keep the title through the winter.
eh. WTF do I know.
You and I appear to be of a similar frame of mind with regard to this angle. Well said.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm in the minority with Wyatt. I'm still into the character and hope he gets over huge.
ReplyDeleteWell, yeah. Everyone wants what they want, and they have a right to bitch about it and/or discuss it. My problem with the way they've booked this whole angle is that ultimately, everyone involved seems to have come out looking worse...except maybe Big Show, though that is still playing out.
ReplyDeleteDBry looks like he can't run with the big boys, Orton looks like he needs help to beat the guy who can't run with the big boys, and HHH can't seem to play the role of heel without trying to be "cool." I don't feel he's portrayed it very well, though he has had some great moments. Being intimidated by Show and selling the KO punch was nice.
The whole thing has just been kind of disappointing to me and many others. I've said it before here; DBry winning at SS was a true "mark out" moment for me. I wasn't expecting it to happen, and it felt great. Then, 5 mins later and for the next 3 months, they shit all over it. If the end game was for him to be filler, fine. I don't necessarily like it, but they could have done a better job with it. Hindsight is 20/20, but I really don't see what there is to gain with making someone in the hunt for your main title look weak.
But, this is just my perception and my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
There's no question Vince likes Daniel Bryan and he definitely was "pushed" to a large extent here. But I recall people thinking that he was being elevated to one of THE top stars in the company at the beginning of the post Summerslam angle.
ReplyDeleteIt was always obvious that they were just buying time for when Cena comes back and using Bryan as a way to vacuum some face heat eventually onto Cena as the REAL "face" of the "best for business" angle. That is obviously what is happening now.
In the meantime, while Bryan starts his semi-burial back to "B+" status, he is still garnering huge heat all over the place. I mean my buddy went to a freaking New York Islanders game and they are now utilizing the "YES!!" chants in their goal scoring celebrations! But, yeah, Bryan is no "A+" draw, everyone. I'd really love to see the results of merchandise he's sold in the past 3 months as a point of comparison to Cena. I recognize that Cena is pretty much untouchable there.
I know IWC seems to love Daniel Bryan. But it's okay for him not to be A+. He can be a B+, or A guy for his career. It's not like being somebody like Big Show, Jericho, Bret, Edge, or others, is a huge failure. It's not top of the absolute mountain, but it's virtually impossible to be the A+ guy. He could be Savage, top carder for most of his career, playing 2nd fiddle only to Hogan/Cena. When he is burnt out, he can drop down to a tag champ and relax, or hold the other belts and make them shine better.
ReplyDeleteI love Triple H, but he's not A+ either. Early in his WWF days, we probably thought he was a B+ guy, doing the blue-blood gimmick, holding the IC and Euro belts. Then, with some help and his own hard work, he made it to the A level, and stayed there. It seems like Bryan can never be hotter, but I think he can, even if it takes more years.