Evening Mr. Keith. Just thought I'd start a discussion of Great F'n Feuds that had little, disappointing or No Proper Payoff. My Top Picks:
Damn, so many to discuss, so little time.
Savage/Roberts: I think this ended on an episode of SNME, but DAMN! this was one of the best rivalries of the early 90's and needed to end in a chaotic brawl/bloodfest, specifically WMVIII. One of the biggest disappointments of my childhood.
Santana/Martel: When/did this even properly end?
Well, the whole feud was happenstance because of Warrior leaving and Jake needing an opponent, so really anything was gravy. And Savage was then needed to move into the World title program by WM, so I can kind of see why they had him finish off Jake so decisively. That being said, fuck this should been awesome.
Santana/Martel: When/did this even properly end?
Once Tito became El Matador and ditched the Strike Force tights. Other than that, it was mostly a house show feud won decisively by Martel. Timing and PPV just didn't align properly to get them a singles blowoff in proper manner, although the Summerslam 89 six-man is kind of a lost classic.
Hart Foundation/Bulldogs: I know these guys had tons of great matches, but did any of them actually signify "And this feud is over, here is your winners.."
...The Hart Foundation. They won the titles and then won the blowoff at Wrestlemania III, complete with the evil ref getting the pin, then screwed the Bulldogs out of the belts in the 2/3 falls match on SNME before the Bulldogs moved down to the Islanders feud. Yeah, the Bulldogs kind of got the moral victory on SNME by winning by DQ, but really once the Harts won the belts it was all uphill for them and downhill for the Dogs.
Piper/Flair: Seriously, before/after they decided to not do a Hogan WM8 match for whatever reason, (I've seen them make worse decisions on wrestlers still fighting each other after less than stellar House show reviews), these guys were Golden against each
This was a pretty major feud without any kind of TV or PPV blowoff, which was weird. Vince taking the chairshot was HUGE at the time. I dunno, chalk it up to "plans change" I guess, but I'm thinking Survivor Series 91 might have been it.
I tried to go beyond WWE late 80's/early 90's, but it was my peak of interest, so sue me. Any ones that also really pissed you off? Keep up the good work Mr. Keith
KURT ANGLE AND HHH. Still infuriates me to this day.
Hollywood Blondes. That should have been an epic feud with the loser getting his head shaved. Should have been WCW's new Sting/Flair rivalry. And they never blew off their WWE feud either.
ReplyDeleteAs a young kid, I was fully engrossed in the buildup of Boss Man/Nailz, with the crazy beatdown by Nailz on a random episode of Superstars, and WWE Magazine posting pictures of Boss Man bruised from head-to-toe. Then Virgil stepped up to take on Nailz because Boss Man was his friend, and Nailz wiped the mat with him at SummerSlam. Nailz terrified me as a child. Even then, I remember being disappointed in the shitty Survivor Series blowoff match.
ReplyDeleteDibiase vs. Bossman from 1990. Went absolutely nowhere. Did they even do house show blowoffs to this? Bossman turns face, refusing Dibiase's money. Wipes out his ex-partner and manager. Dibiase goes around Cobb County paying people to talk trash about the Bossman... then nothing. Bossman is randomly pushed into a new feud with Rude, and Dibiase with Dusty.
ReplyDeleteIn related news.
ReplyDeleteBossman vs Rick Rude.
Personally they missed the boat with running a Nailz beats everyone scenario and the only guy to end his reign of terror being Greg The Hammer Valentine.
ReplyDeletePunk vs. Bryan. Awesome match, yes, but it ended with Punk tapping, the submission match was right there and we got fucking Kane instead.
ReplyDeleteHah, that took me a second. TERRIBLE.
ReplyDeleteAgreed- they basically just up and ended the feud, and segued to Taker/Nailz. But it ended up going nowhere because Nailz left under goofy circumstances.
ReplyDeleteI remember Ultimate Warrior/Papa Shango just casually ending one day, with no fanfare. Crush also never seemed to gain his revenge against Doink the Clown.
ReplyDeleteYes! Yes!! Yes!!!
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I was never very satisfied with the conclusion to the Chuck Palumbo/Jaimie Noble angle.
ReplyDeleteTriple H and Shawn Michaels never settled the score, if you ask me.
ReplyDeleteWith only 4 PPVs a year, we've missed so many potentially great PPV matches, especially in 91/92.
ReplyDeleteIt's not the greatest feud by any means, but to this day the SES Punk/Mysterio feud a few years ago pisses me off.
ReplyDeleteThe feud was just crying out for Mysterio to lose a match and join the SES. It would have been something totally different for Rey and the end game was obviously Rey eventually working his way out of the Straight Edge Society.
But instead we got the usual 50/50 booking and the feud just ended with the status quo still in effect.
It was at this point I lost faith in the WWE's ability to book an interesting, well thought out logical progressive feud. And that problem still exists today, it's why I didn't get overly excited about The Authority angle.
WWF vs WCW.
ReplyDeleteThey had a blowoff "boot camp" match on a Tribute to the Troops RAW, which Shawn won clean in the middle of the ring with the superkick. Of course, HHH had already won the 3 stages of Hell and the HIAC, so as usual, the babyface wins the last match, but HHH wins the one that counts.
ReplyDeleteTwo HBK ones spring to mind for me:
ReplyDeleteRock vs. Shawn (lotta smack talking, Shawn costs Rock the title, it gets brought up occasionally... no match ever).
Daniel Bryan vs. Shawn (fingers crossed but not hopeful on my end).
Also, Hart/Austin never had a true blowoff, though I suppose you could count Canadian Stampede.
What? Another dig at Triple H when it wasn't warranted? Never thought I'd see the day!
ReplyDeleteThat angle could have gone in a funny direction. They force Rey to join the Society and as a result the announcers have to play up how much Rey loves to do drugs and now he's sad because he can't do them. After one match Punk taunts Rey with a fan's beer which Rey reaches for longingly only for Punk to pour it out at the last second. Punk brings a big bag of weed to the ring and then throws it in a burning trashcan dragging Rey away with tears in his eyes as the masked man desperately tries to inhale the smoke. The fans, of course, boo Punk like crazy for this.
ReplyDeleteBut Rey gets the upper hand when he 619s a magic mushroom into Luke Gallows' mouth, infuriating Punk enough to agree to a match. They have a Heroin Needle on a Pole match. If Punk wins, Dominic NotEddiesKid has to enroll in a D.A.R.E program and Rey loses his mask, but if Rey wins, he gets to shoot up right there in the ring and Punk has to release him form the S.E.S.
Of course, Rey wins and celebrates by handcuffing Punk to the ropes and forcing him to share the needle. He even lets Dominic tie him off. Now that's a payoff; the pop would be insane!
Its a shame Raw didn't debut a year earlier. Jan. 92 is the most loaded roster ever.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Punk/Cena.
ReplyDeleteThe blowoff was supposed to be at 14.
ReplyDeleteI know it was a house show thing, but it is too bad there's not a particular epic showdown between Snuka and Piper after the whole coconut thing. Or at least not one that's registered as a must see match. It would have been great to see something between them with the intensity of the Piper/Valentine dog collar match or the Snuka/Murraco cage match (maybe a Dog Collar Cage match to reference the two).
ReplyDeleteBret/Savage was a wasted opportunity for WM 9. The whole Randy Savage de-push thing is a mystery to me. I guess Yokozuna worked for what they wanted, but Bret/Savage would be a infinitely better ME.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair with Warrior/Flair, they kinda did the setup for it, then Flair dropped the belt and Warrior took off.
The Big Bossman's mom got him fired, I don't know how it gets more decisive than that.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what they planned to do originally. I guess you could just substitute everything that happened to Ryback happening to Cena again. But that means Punk goes over and wins the feud. Which would be odd but not unprecedented to have your WM ME winner lose his feud before WM.
ReplyDeleteThey had a no dq match on PPV which Punk won to end that feud
ReplyDeleteI'd say the Savage/Snake feud ended decisiviely enough.Savage beat him on some Saturday night main event tv show and hit him with three top rope elbows after. PPV might have been better, but then Savage/Flair was great anyway.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, it seems like 95 percent of feuds have disappointing payoffs. Very few feuds end in a satisfying way.....hell, very few feuds actually END, rather than just drift off into the house show circuit.
ReplyDeleteThey did, didn't they. I gotta watch that match again. That stupid AJ stuff (and I love AJ) and stupid Kane stuff really blurred my memories of that era.
ReplyDeleteWCW vs. nWo
ReplyDeleteFor that matter did Hogan / Piper ever get a proper blow off? Even in WCW?
ReplyDeleteNWO vs. WCW. Never really ever had a payoff of any kind.
ReplyDeleteBeat me to it.
ReplyDeletePillman's death probably had something to do with that, sadly...
ReplyDeleteFoley vs HHH in 2000 is the total opposite of this thread:
ReplyDelete-Mankind gets the shit beat out of him and pedigreed through a table.
-Turns into Cactus Jack to get tougher. Jack loses to HHH clean at the rumble.
-To get another crack at HHH, Cactus Jack puts his career on the line. Jack loses a cell match cleanly.
-Mick Foley gets brought back for one last match, the fatal four way, and once more he loses and HHH comes out on top.
HHH goes on to dominate the next ten years. Mick Foley gets a bad haircut and becomes commissioner.
Sting vs. Black Scorpion: Forget the Wrestlecrap, if WCW had any semblance of good organization in 1990 this could have been one hell of a feud.
ReplyDeleteThe Hurricane / Rock feud could of been really big. Hurricane was super over as a face and getting Rock over as a heel but then it kinda just disappeared without a real match or anything.
ReplyDeleteNot really. Pillman was feeding written Golddust at the time and the Hart Foundation was winding down. There was no indication he would feud with Austin. The reason there was no blowoff was because he joined the Hart Foundation, and his angle with Austin was just part of that feud.
ReplyDeleteShane Douglas vs. Pitbull No. 2.
ReplyDeleteThe DDT on the belt, the heel-turn, the neck-brace shake, the near-riots...
All for a truly awful match at Barely Legal.
the kane stuff did lead to Team Hell no though, so was all for the best!
ReplyDeleteNailz was a terrible wrestler though. I think Bossman pinning him at Survivor Series to end it was for the best.
ReplyDeleteI think Wrestlemania was the blowoff for their original feud.
ReplyDeleteHurricane won a match on raw that was the blowofff.
ReplyDeleteIf Pillman lives, something would have happened sometime during Austin's run at the top.
ReplyDeleteJust seemed like it could of been more though
ReplyDeleteMan, the Austin/Vince thing never had 1 payoff moment. Quick, if you had to describe the payoff to that feud, what would it be? See...it's tough to think of one.
ReplyDeleteMaybe. I got impression be was being positioned firmly in the mid card at the time of his death. His injuries left him pretty limited in the ring.
ReplyDeleteNwo vs sting
ReplyDeleteWhat about TNA?
ReplyDeleteI think the nWo in general.
ReplyDeleteit wasnt proper but superbrawl 7
ReplyDeletest valentine's day 99... kinda
ReplyDeleteor wm17
ReplyDeleteHalloween Havoc was supposed to be the blow off, I guess.
ReplyDeleteRock was only in for a limited amount of time. It was a cute mini-feud, but wasting a Rock PPV match on it would have been stupid.
ReplyDeleteFully Loaded 99, even though Vince was back on TV a month later.
ReplyDeleteWayy too much going on on top in 94 to allow 2 studs like the Blondes through.
ReplyDeleteEspecially with Flair booking.
Goldberg vs. NWO post FoD.
ReplyDeleteNo and here's why (my opinion)
ReplyDeleteBy Havoc 97, Sting had already set his sights on Hogan so that was foregone conclusion big show main event.
The initial Piper/Hogan WCW saga was Havoc 96-STarrcade 96, which Piper won.
The non title stip made him to look a fool, so they did the rematch at SuperBrawl 7 for the title and Hogan won.
Piper then asked the Horsemen to join him in a 3 team match at Uncensored 97, in which Sting came down and pointed at Hogan.
The Havoc match was pure filler til Starrcade and never had the hype of blowoff that SuperBrawl did.
"end of an era" was the subtile of this PPV and was IMO the final match of this feud.
ReplyDeleteMost early 90s midcard feuds never had a satisfying conclusion or fizzled out before they even began. UT vs Berserker, Crush vs Doink, UT vs Papa Shango, Diesel vs Perfect, Money Inc. vs Nasty Boys. I could go on forever.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Nailz creeped me out too. The spit-filled promos and creepy voice were kinda frightening.
ReplyDeleteTriple H pinned Hurricane in the blowoff!
ReplyDeleteHHH vs. Booker T
ReplyDeleteLuger vs. Flair
Austin vs. Hart
Punk vs. Nash
Goldberg vs. Nash
HHH vs. Punk
Snuka vs. Piper
DBry vs. HHH
Actually wasn't Kane supposed the feud with HBK after this?
ReplyDeleteI remember reading that Rock was meant to lose a match to Booker T in the lead-up to that 'Mania as well but after seeing HHH leech heat off Hurricane after Rock had sold for him, he refused the match. I hope that's true. The pettiness required for HHH to put himself over Hurricane after that mini-feud with Rock is hilarious.
ReplyDeleteI don't know.....that epic Hornswoggle vs. Chavo Guerrero Jr. feud never had a definitive conclusion......
ReplyDeleteTNA vs. Bankruptcy... though to be fair, that blow-off could still be coming and it might be a doozy!
ReplyDelete"Why would that girl go up to that room in the middle of the night?
ReplyDeleteSeriously? Maybe she went up to his room intending to have sex, but changed her mind. Maybe they even started having consensual sex, but she wanted to stop and he wouldn't.
I'm glad he's not on the DVD and I hope they continue to leave him off DVD's. I hope younger generations never even know he existed.
ReplyDeleteDidn't they say they would never promote anything with him? Because you plop it down in the special features without mentioning it anywhere and we're done.
ReplyDeleteLiterally that simple.
Here's the question nobody seems to ask:
ReplyDeleteWas there proof that Jimmy killed her? Did they do any investigation that straight up said "Jimmy did it?"
Vince probably doesnt even remember Johnny K-9.
ReplyDeletePlus, Benoit murdered his own child. A defenseless child. There is no excuse for that.
Benoit is a piece of shit who murdered his own child. Why are people crying that he was left off of a compliation, especially considering that the end of a match was a giant celebration for him?
ReplyDeleteYeah ok let's sweep it all under the carpet and act like Benoit never existed and suck media asshole for the rest of eternity. Wrestling is wrestling, show the damn match and get over it!
ReplyDeleteBecause it was a great match and in context with the rest of the DVD!
ReplyDeleteOr just don't do it at all. We all have Wrestlemania XX on DVD anyway
ReplyDeleteShould I even bother?
ReplyDeleteI'm very conflicted on this issue. The NFL has no issue showing footage or speaking of OJ Simpson. OJ killed a mother and young man with his whole life ahead of him. His bust is still in Canton. On the other hand as stated below the match was a celebration of him and the culmination of his hard work. The Wrestlemania 20 DVD is most likely dirt cheap on ebay or amazon as is the Benoit Hard Knocks set, get those if you loved the match that much. I think it should have been a single match with Triple H vs. Benoit and Jim Ross really jumped the shark as a commentator in that match. I don't disagree with WWE censoring Benoit from history but at the same time why are wrestlers still using the Crippler Crossface in matches? Ditto for the Diving Headbutt. Benoit will always be a complex issue for wrestling fans as many people have no issue enjoying his matches while others actually stopped watching all together after the murders.
ReplyDeleteDidn't he admit he'd raped other people? I felt like his admission was "I didn't rape HER" (not that it makes it better or defensible).
ReplyDelete...he killed his son.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm sure the rest of Nacy's family should just "get over it".
ReplyDeleteLet me ask you "supporters" something: if the kids who were responsible for Columbine and Sandy Hook had "Hall of Fame" level wrestling careers before they did what they did, would you still be bitching about their matches being removed from the DVD?
ReplyDeleteI mean, who cares if some people died right? They had great wrestling careers!
So we're pretending Benoit doesn't exist in case Nancy's family picks up the HBK DVD and is upset by it?
ReplyDeleteI can't tell you what Chris Brown's nickname is, you seem to know more about that than me ;-) C Breezy is an abbreviation of my old name on here.
And Jimmy Snuka was a wifebeater/murderer. Why do we still play his matches and induct him into Hall of Fames?
ReplyDeleteThat is ridiculously hypothetical though. Let's be clear - the reason Benoit gets omitted from history, DVDs etc is purely for the WWE to avoid a media headache and nothing to do with sparing anyone's feelings. We won't agree on this but wrestling is wrestling imo, show the damn match and if someone doesn't finds it too 'difficult' or whatever to watch a Benoit match, skip that section of the DVD! Simple
ReplyDeleteThey're profiting off a murderer if they put him on the DVD.
ReplyDeleteWas Snuka ever convicted or was there any proof that said he did it?
ReplyDeleteNo but if he had been would it stop you watching his matches? Or does the line fall somewhere between hitting women and murdering children? Let's be honest - wrestlers are by and large pieces of shit and if we knew what most of them had been up to and kept this moral high ground we'd probably have no more wrestling to watch.
ReplyDeleteThem putting the guy on DVD's straight up tells the family, "fuck you, we're going to make profit off him".
ReplyDeleteI wonder if HBK himself asked if the Benoit match be left off?
ReplyDeleteIn terms of a theme set like this one, if you aren't going to include all the matches - Benoit's end notwithstanding - then you shouldn't release a set like this at all. WWE couldn't come up with a new HBK set that wouldn't be compromised like this? It's just stupid.
If he did murder her and was convicted, I wouldn't watch. Lucky for me, I don't go out of my way to watch Snuka.
ReplyDeleteI'm in agreement with Scott, personally, but I bet if Shawn or HHH had won the match, it would be on there. I suspect it was less about "don't include Benoit at all" (since they had in other "complete" DVDs) and more about "Don't include Benoit's big win with everyone cheering for him as he finally wins the title".
ReplyDeleteHere's another question:
ReplyDeleteWhere are all those Jimmy Snuka retrospectives or 3-disc DVD sets?
Also, okay, holier than thou people, we get it. You are taking a strong moral stand and refuse to acknowledge the existence of bad people. I have no problem with you guys doing it...let's cut the bullshit of attacking anyone who is able to separate the horrific and terrible act from matches done years before it happened. Had Benoit survived and somehow got away with it, I would never root for the man again, but it doesn't change the fact that I enjoyed his matches in the past from a technical standpoint and am still able to enjoy them. You're not? That's fine, I completely understand, but trying to attack everyone who doesn't agree with you is bullshit.
ReplyDeleteIt has nothing to do with "being able to enjoy his matches".
ReplyDeleteIt ha to do with certain people on here's mindset of "who cares if he murdered somebody WWE, get over it and induct him for being the great ,man that he was... outside of the murders."
I don't think it's a matter of being holier than thou. I think it's more a matter of people not understanding why WWE is taking the stance they take. I mean, let's even look at what Scott said. To place the apparent sanctity of a WrestleMania compilation over Benoit's actions is a little ridiculous. It's as if saying, "Yeah, he murdered his wife and a young child....but you PROMISED us ALL of the WrestleMania matches!!"
ReplyDeleteNobody is stopping anybody from going out and enjoying Benoit's matches. That is entirely different than expecting WWE to provide the content for that enjoyment.
Nobody is stopping you from watching the match. It exists in many mediums. WWE shouldn't be forced to provide it to you because you want it, though.
ReplyDeleteWhatever, since the match was meant to highlight Benoit, I can see why. Plus with Shawn doing commentary, it would be real awkward. What would he do, talk about how weird it was for Triple H to roll in the ring and start tapping out himself?
ReplyDelete6 years on and this topic remains tiresome. There's bigger things than wrestling in this world. If you want to see the WMXX match, find/rent the DVD of that event or a copy of Hard Knocks if you can find it.
My personal preference is for them to just go ahead and include his matches in DVD's where it makes sense to.
ReplyDeleteI completely understand people who have no interest in watching his work. I'm not one of those people. I like his matches, even though they usually end up making me sad.
All of us consume entertainment and it's statistically impossible that none of the people who entertain us haven't done something we would find unforgivable.
This doesn't make evil things OK. It means we're OK with them, as long as they aren't all but irrefutably shoved in our faces.
Well he was no Benoit in the ring, that's for sure.
ReplyDeleteI know dude, it's not even about the match. I just miss the days when Vince would go on TV and admit the fucked up nature of things but still stand up for his sport. Nowadays it seems we crumble under criticism and kiss ass all the time. Where's the ATTITUDE? Huh?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure his stockholders would love Vince McMahon jumping on a table, whipping his dick out, and saying, "fuck the critics, Benoit matches for everyone!"
ReplyDeleteVince loves money more than anything (okay, maybe his family, maybe), and having the ATTITUDE made him money back in the late 90s. Now, pleasing stockholders and Bonnie Hammer makes him money.
Touche.
ReplyDeleteIt really is a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. Ignore Benoit, fans rail on Vince for wiping him out of history. But put on matches with him and you run the risk of fans claiming he's cashing in on the infamy or promoting a murderer/suicide. Even Scott has said he finds it hard to watch Benoit matches, knowing how all that punishment he took was going to catch up to him in the end, can't totally blame WWE for this. After all, not like you see a lot of NFL stuff promoting O.J. Simpson.
ReplyDeleteread a good comment on that site: mike tyson is acknowledged in wwe and he's a convicted rapist
ReplyDeleteBut there's this constant claim that somehow, if you include Benoit in a compilation, you're endorsing what he did, or endorsing him, or putting it above his actions, or whatever.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm sorry, perhaps it isn't you, but there are absolutely people here who judge everyone who dares to enjoy a Benoit match and separate it from what he did. They obviously aren't "stopping" anyone, but I didn't say they were, I said they were attacking the people who do enjoy a Benoit match, and that does happen. And yes, there are those supporters who also go way took far and I don't agree with them.
Personally, I think WWE would be enormous idiots to even consider inducting him into the Hall of Fame, and I would judge them harshly for doing so. The Hall of Fame has two purposes...as an honor to those inducted, and to sell tickets to the Hall of Fame weekend. Benoit sure as hell should not be honored no matter how good his career was, and it's not going to sell any extra tickets. Wanting him inducted is stupid. Likewise, I do not think WWE should release another Chris Benoit DVD, nor do I have any problem at all with them not including his matches on random DVDs (I'd have loved to get the Jericho/Benoit VS HHH/Austin match on Jericho's DVD for example, but would certainly never blame WWE for not including it...they probably shouldn't). All that said, as a completionist, I do get a bit annoyed when matches that should be included based on what the DVD is get excluded. They don't do it much I grant you (Elimination Chamber still had him) and I get why this one is more difficult to include, but I'm never thrilled when it's "Get ALL of HBK's WrestleMania matches! except that one match".
ReplyDeleteIm in no way endorsing rape if thats the way the comment came off. Just saying that this chick had to know at 2 in the morning, Mike wasnt going to be wanting discuss his pigeons. Hell, Id be afraid to go up to Mike's room at that time of night...
ReplyDeleteI'm saying that in the court of public opinion, there will be more sympathy for a defenseless child being murdered by their daddy, than for a supposed drug addicted prostitute who was involved in an abusive relationship she could've/should've left. The child didn't have that option.
ReplyDeleteYes, I do place more value on a child's life than on a drug addicted prostitute, hire Otunga and sue me.....
To be blunt, the laughable extent to which they go to excise Benoit from history is about liability, and nothing else. Vince does NOT want people thinking about Benoit anymore, because if they do they're going to start asking questions about head injuries to the same extent people have been asking about it in football, and then Vince is potentially on the hook for A LOT of money in lawsuits and damages for the work environment he promoted. All of the other stuff about how you can't acknowledge people who did bad things existed in the public eye (as others have pointed out, O.J.'s still an NFL HoFer who gets acknowledged for his accomplishments, Roman Polanski's movies are still in distribution, etc.) are ridiculous nonsense (though I can understand people who marked out for Benoit like a lot of us did being uncomfortable with that in hindsight). It's JUST about trying to bury the questions about head trauma.
ReplyDelete