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QOTD 58: "One's dignity may be assaulted, vandalized and cruelly mocked...

...but it can never be taken away unless it is surrendered.” - Michael J. Fox.

Lets talk about Bullying. If you can't tell from my dashing good looks, muscled frame, and deep, sultry, almost golden roasted voice, I was the 'victim' of a good amount of bullying as a kid. The worst of it was taking a poop in fifth grade and having kids throw paper towels covered with piss and poop and spit, over the top of the stall. It was pretty horrible, especially because I dropped my lunch money in the toilet right after.

It was not a good day, and not a good time.

Lets talk about bullying, which is the hot new parental buzzword! Do you think 'bullying' has a purpose in the development of youths into well adjusted adults, or should kids be able to go to school without the fear of being harassed and picked on? Do you think bullying has 'gotten worse' or just changed forms from physical harassment to constant mental harassment over things like social media?



I dunno - I guess I'm old enough now where I can see both sides. Kids shouldn't be miserable, but they also shouldn't be so shielded from adversity that when they, say, get to college, and then the NFL, and a big tall angry player calls them names, that they run to their lawyer and start leaking out selected segments of text messages and voice-mails without the full context of the message, instead of talking to the player directly.

I think this whole thing went off the rails we stopped picking teams in Gym Class, to be honest. I'm not sure if it's the same everywhere, but because of our discrimination policy way back in the day, the coach had to pick teams to avoid making the nonathletic kids feel stupid. That always sat strangely with me, because it wasn't like the dumb kids got to take a different math test, ya know? You are what you are, and if you don't like it, change it, or grin and bear it.

(jokes on them though - 8th grade, basketball, you try getting out of the way of a 6' tall 250 pound motherfucker going up for a rebound.)

Still, I do look back on the ration of shit I took as a kid with a weird sort of...reverence. I think being bullied, or harrased, or whatever, is an important part of growing up - in essence showing you that sometimes people will NOT be nice to you, and that YOU need to make your choice as to fight back, ignore it, or tattle.

I chose to tattle and generally ignore that time, and while 'bullying' continued until like..9th grade, I was never miserable, it was just something that sucked about my day. Which is fine, I figured when I was an adult *lots* of things would suck about a given day, and I had might as well get used to it now. But, that's *me*. I don't have kids. I haven't had my kids come home from school in tears because someone pushed them or beat them up, or whatever.

It just seems now that the folks that grew up with my generation have grown up and had kids, we've become so...eager to protect our kids, often times at the expense of their maturation. There's value in "Life is tough, get a helmet", if you ask me.

Every now and then I look at my hands and notice how soft they are compared to that of my parents and the people who's hands I shake. Have I too, been coddled?

Actually I know I was. In fact, technically, if my school records are to be believed, I'm 'retarded'. I didn't know until I graduated from high school and went through all my records while fighting a terrible case of food poisoning and saw a great deal of information pertaining to my fine motor-skills, muscle development, and special classes I took as a kid.

Wild.

Really, what's worse, being harassed as a kid or having something like that held from you for over a decade for fear of....I'm not sure what, exactly.


Comments

  1. ''Welcome to Monday Night Raw!''
    http://www.christianrenaud.com/.a/6a00d8341e26ef53ef015434681e61970c-800wi

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  2. What I don't get is why they're using Cena in an alternate WHC world, unless the end game is actually planned in some long-term booking.

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  3. All of this proves only that Bryan getting repeatedly Dusty Finish-Ed is Bad Fo Bizzle. Why are they copying the 'winning' formula that made Hogan quit the AWA?

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  4. I'm not a business major so ya'll are going to have to help me here. If they put the belt on Bryan and gave him a legit main event push or 6 months could things really collapse? I know they could potentially lose money, but worse case scenario could the bottom really fallout to where they could never recover?

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  5. So what's going to happen to Big Show and Orton when Survivor Series probably does it's butyrate in history?

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  6. So, we're in for about a decade of seeing WWE ping-pong between taking risks and pushing new people to boost stagnant ratings, and snapping back to the status quo when those moves don't instantly pay off. Got it.

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  7. "there just wasn't evidence that Bryan was drawing on top, so it's totally justifiable on their part to pull the plug and go back to Orton and Cena again."
    When was Bryan ever on top? He was a midcarder and tag guy until he started getting the singles push in July, then Summerslam was his first ever main event match. Then that was followed by 3 months of Orton as champ and the title being vacant. Bryan has never been booked on top.


    If Bryan had gotten a 2-3 month title reign, where he was legitimately booked ON TOP, and the ratings and buyrates bombed, well then there's an argument. But he never had that opportunity. He's never been booked on top, so whether or not he can draw money isn't possible to figure out yet. This isn't a case of the "internet community" wanting Vince to stick with someone while flying in the face of hard data— this is people saying WHY NOT GIVE HIM A CHANCE. I mean Christ, I love how Bryan gets compared to Bret Hart and HBK as "smark darlings" who flopped on top. Those guys did flop, yes, but they both had actual long title reigns to judge them on. Bryan still hasn't had anything close to that.


    Another thing: the ratings were the same or higher than they were at the same exact time, week-to-week, that they were in Fall 2012.


    Last thing: how the fuck is "going back to Orton" the safe bet? It's been proven already that orton isn't a draw. Dude has had NUMEROUS long title reigns and runs on top as both a heel and a face, and when has he ever popped ratings or buyrates? He's a proven mediorce commodity when it comes to making money.


    ACTUAL LAST THING: Why did Bryan need to be shunted down the card in order to "go back to Cena"? Cena already has the other championship and is existing in a different universe than the WWE title scene. Bryan could have at least gotten the "CM Punk in 2011/12" face title run underneath Cena as his test.

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  8. I endorse this response. Hi five Scott.

    Bryan could start a cult and have ALOT of followers.

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  9. Collapse? Probably not. But it might affect their ability to snap back to this booking security blanket of theirs, where Cena, Orton and Big Show are on top, everyone else is booked kinda same-y, and the proceeds from kids, die-hards, and the international market keep them in good standing.

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  10. I have no idea how much of the fanbase I represent, but Bryan has never really done much for me or enticed me enough to part with any money.


    Before anyone starts fires up their pokers, the guy is an amazing in-ring talent. I don't disagree with that at all. But I found his character incredibly annoying and off-putting most of the time. He looked homeless and acted like a child, and yes, even his size did get to me sometimes. I don't subscribe to the Kevin Nash "you have to be a giant to be a believable main eventer" mentality, but just like Rey Mysterio, there is only so much suspension of disbelief I can muster. Maybe I'm being unfair, but just being honest.

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  11. Because where else could Bryan possibly go?

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  12. Big Show is just a sacrificial lamb to build up Orton and HHH for the build up of the eventual payoff feud. He won't be hurt by putting them over strongly, bc he's Big Show and they know what he is at this point.

    If Bryan was in this role of building up Orton/HHH for the payoff feud, the outrage would explode the internet.

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  13. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 5:35 PM

    That wasn't the question he asked

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  14. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 5:35 PM

    So basically what you're saying is if you're in a slide business wise, you go back to the guys that have presided over the entire slide.

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  15. It really is going to be interesting to see how Orton/Show and Cena/ADR do on top. I mean, on the WWE title side you have A) a match that most people assume will be pretty bad B) A babyface that's basically been acting like a heel (lawsuits!) and whom I doubt anyone, even the mainstream fans, are really all that invested in C) A heel that has been defined down as Triple H's little manservant D) A match that we've seen on a thousand WWE midcards before


    Then on the WHC side, it's also a match that A) We've seen a billion times before, on both PPV and TV B) A match result that isn't the slightest in doubt. Like, seriously, there's a zero percent chance of ADR winning the belt back C) A Heel with pretty much nonexistent heat. ADR really is at the point where he kind of needs to go away for 6 months to a year.


    Maybe I'm totally overlooking something, but why would anyone have ANY interest in this show? Yeah Cena's in the main event, but are Cena fans even going to care enough to need to see him beat the shit out of a heatless Del Rio yet AGAIN?

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  16. The implication was that Show and Orton doing a bad buy rate is offset bc it's all part of the bigger build for them. Unless I'm completely misinterpreting his question

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  17. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 5:38 PM

    It's going to do shit. You can see on Ticketmaster that this show is going to be a total disaster for an "A" PPV.

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  18. So could Scott Keith apparently.

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  19. This has been my stance for awhile

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  20. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 5:39 PM

    His point was that "in theory" DB is being buried for being bad business. But then they turn around and are about to have a total clunker of a PPV and the vets on top will skate for it

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  21. It's not like they were doing great when Cena and Oton were on top. I think it's safe to say that if they tried to run with Orton as the actual face of the WWE, business would be doing even worse.

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  22. It's that Bryan is blamed for a shit buyrate, but Orton gets to skate on a shit buyrate.


    The company picks and chooses which numbers it's actually going to care about

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  23. Yea, they will. Like I said, the big picture for wwe at this point is to build Orton and HHH up for the build for the payoff WM feud. They essentially need someone to "sacrifice" to them. I bet in WWE mind, they know Survivor Series won't do great but they rationalize it this way.

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  24. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 5:44 PM

    But Scott's saying that they made this decision because of money... in that they like it. If that's the case, why would they throw this shit out there as a top PPV. Because it sure as hell ain't gonna make much money. You're not doing a good job of arguing Scott's point, which is solely business related.


    You don't have a shitty "A" PPV because you want to build up the match that will be 3rd from the top at WM

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  25. Here's my issue.

    Isn't Cena equally a part of the summer slam show that didn't draw?
    Isn't HHH an equal part of this storyline not doing groundbreaking business?

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  26. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 5:44 PM

    Don't expect an answer that makes any sense

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  27. Why are they using a fucking PPV to do this? It's NOT what's best for business. When they were an enjoyable product they'd have this as the main event of Smackdown and get to the bigger picture at Survivor Series.

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  28. I don't completely disagree but here's my bigger point. We dont get minute to minute ratings, who's to say that Bryans tv ratings are good. We dont know how much input USA hhas in regards to WWES programming, and who is featured. We dont have The demographic or merchandise statistics Vince has. I'll give a multimillion dollar conglomerate the b en fit of the doubt when it comes to making their business decisions.

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  29. davidbonzaisaldanamontgomeryNovember 10, 2013 at 5:45 PM

    We're talking in-ring Gods and leaving out *THE* WRESTLING GOD, JBL?

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  30. We were pretty ticked about how they were handling things as it was happening. I think the added perspective of what happened (now that the Bryan push is pretty much over with as a main event player) has only enraged us more. With the benefit of hindsight, we can see even more stupidity in the arc of the angle.

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  31. I disagree. Foley was the sacrificial lamb for Rock. His first reign was essentially him being fed to Rock, so Rock would be stronger going into the eventual Austin feud.

    They did this shit all the time with Hogan. Build up earthquake, Slaughter, etc., for the eventual big boot

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  32. It just goes to show just how apathetic people are to Daniel Bryan when he's even killing the drawing power of John Cena and Triple H.

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  33. I REALLY don't see the infatuation with Orton. He's not really that jacked anymore and doesnt look anything like he did when he started. Time and time again he's shown he doesn't have the IT factor.

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  34. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 5:48 PM

    They've had pissed off crowds two nights in a row. They're in process of killing houses in Europe right now because Cena/Punk/Bryan are on the same show... while Bryan was advertised for the other tour.

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  35. My answer to the original post wasn't really an extension of Scotts point. See my response to Kyle above, that's more in line with what Scott is saying.

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  36. Rock and Foley is one of the best feuds they've ever done and lasted for over three months.

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  37. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 5:52 PM

    It used to be a billion dollar conglomerate.


    You can get a decent idea from the quarters. Either way, Punk and DB were off TV after about 15 minutes last week and the ratings were still ass.


    It's a company wide problem. It's frustrating in one aspect, but it's also funny in another to watch them kill houses right and left, in their quest to go back to doing tapings at the Mid-Hudson Civic Center.


    If Punk didn't renew his deal and Cena finally got his career ending injury (and both are decent non-zero % over the next year), it would be absolutely hilarious. And well deserved.

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  38. There's no comparison between Big Show and 99/2000 Foley. Foley was a great character with tons of heat, putting on main event quality awesome matches, and was basically a main eventer himself. Yeah he ended up being fodder to get Rock and HHH ready for their big Mania matches, but he was a draw himself. Big Show is not that in the slightest.

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  39. The only way Orton could be anymore WWE created is if Vince impregnated his mother himself.

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  40. You're right. It's an imperfect comparison. The rationale of Show being fed to Orton in a probable 2 ppv feud and Foley being fed to Rock are the same though.

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  41. Stranger in the AlpsNovember 10, 2013 at 5:54 PM

    To me, this has been exhausted as a topic. How many different ways can we, as a group, state that the booking has been terrible, we're tired of Cena/Orton at the top, Triple H =AIDS, etc etc?

    It's the only horse in town, and we're not booking it. Complain? Yes! Beat the horse into the ground? No!

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  42. Except the Foley feuds had epic heat and drew tons of money themselves. You could have run Foley vs HHH at Mania 16 and people would have bought it, that's how heated that feud was.

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  43. He's The Face Of The WWE, He's their ideal, their ubermensch, their Marty Stu self-insert. They're going to keep pushing him for as long as they can get away with simply because it's what they really, really want to do.

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  44. His overall look really goes against the typical Cena-ish physique. In 09 when he went full shaved head he was really small compared to his legend killer build

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  45. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 5:57 PM

    Who are they even building this up to? Do they know?


    This angle ends with CM Punk beating Orton at about 9:30 ET at WM? LOL.


    Title for title featuring crickets at the end of the show where 20% of the crowd leaves after Brock/Taker?

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  46. At heart, Vince is still has the stupid carny logic.

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  47. Wonder if they have any contingency plan if Orton gets that 3rd strike. I mean, other than ignore it, of course.

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  48. But here's the thing, they've done this whole "Orton as a top guy" thing before and the buy rates never justify it. Orton has been known for being ratings cancer for years now, yet, here he is, renewed push, despite the fact that he's never been a draw, and is one strike away from being fired anyways.

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  49. The Miz and R-Truth will be fucked.

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  50. Doesn't WWE fuck up everything that was unexpectedly successful this year:
    1) Ziggler wins the world title to a massive pop, doesn't win a match while champ, the world title is now in even worse shape before thanks to del rio and Ziggler can barely make it onto raw/smackdown
    2) Fandango's theme becomes super over for a week and now he can barely get the crowd excited
    3) Daniel Bryan/Kane gets over and now Kane is heel again for no reason & Daniel Bryan is stuck with a feud against the Wyatt family for no known reason except that would have nothing else for him & Punk to do.
    4) Antonio Cesaro has the crowd excited for a swing but he is stuck tagging with Swagger.
    Thus why should I get excited for any wrestler (except for the WWE chosen ones) when I know the WWE would just screw it up?

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  51. The rational behind it is the same, is my point. I'm not even remotely comparing Show to Foley. I'm saying they need some to feed to Orton and HHH. Who else is a better option?

    WWE knows the big money is in WWE so they are booking long term towards that. They know Survivor Series is essentially a B level show now so will take a hit on that if they think it'll help them down the road

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  52. TJ. Anyone doing a Total Divas thread tonight?

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  53. You'll get a ton of downvotes for that but I basically agree, he's amazing in the ring there's nothing to be said there but everything else about him screams indy geek to me. People want him to be the next big star? Start by looking even mildly presentable, freakin CM Punk with his neck tattoos looks less like a skell than Bryan does currently.


    It's perfect that the internet latched on to him immediately as the next Benoit, like Chris, he's got all the moves and none of the personality.

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  54. How do you know he didn't? Maybe Bob allowed him to do that in exchange for being a part of the first WM main event.

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  55. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:00 PM

    Do you really even have to ask? Orton is a prop holding a prop.

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  56. Bryan has no personality? Dude, that's justa straight up absurd statement.

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  57. I find him to be a complete bore when he speaks, in the ring he's amazing outside of it...I couldn't really care less about the dude.

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  58. Dude, I'm not arguing Foley/Rock was a better and much bigger money feud then Orton/Show. If WWE had a guy that was on Foley level to sacrifice to Orton/HHH there's no doubt in my mind they'd put him in the role. They don't though. They are booking long terms towards the mania build/PPV

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  59. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:02 PM

    *I* cut better promos than Benoit, and I've never cut one. I don't think he's the greatest thing since Randy Savage, but c'mon, that was pretty stupid. He's done a really good job connecting with the crowd.

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  60. True. They could basically just have Triple H walk out the next week as WWE champ and not even mention that Orton ever existed, and the crowd itself wouldn't care. Orton right now has zero heat.

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  61. So much so that he's being demoted.

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  62. If I had to bet money on it, I'd bet Cena/HHH is the payoff. For the record, im anti anything that's not Cena vs Taker.

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  63. Well, to each their own, but that's a pretty minority opinion. And I'm not talking "internet" fans, but the most mainstream fans would say that Daniel bryan has tons of personality.

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  64. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:05 PM

    The story is about the belt. The top guy that is best for business. This story has to end with the belt on the line

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  65. Cena does deserve blame. I think it's a comfort thing with them. They're comfortable with him in that role so probably overlook it slightly bc he's been a proven commodity.

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  66. Oh I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just saying that I don't see this wonderful second coming that the rest of the blog has latched on to. He'll be a great utility guy for the rest of his career but he's never going to be the mega-star, definitely not if he insists on keeping the homeless drunk look that advertisers just adore.

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  67. I'm in the middle on this. I think they really screwed Bryan with the booking. At the same time I'm not totally sold on him either. The beard looks dumb, they need to have a hair vs. belt or hair vs. hair match yesterday. I stated in an earlier thread he is no where near Benoit in ability as much people want him to be. I think if he keeps the belt for a few months after Summerslam, the numbers stay the same.

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  68. I'd like for the belt to get included somehow, I just don't see it. I really think WWE sees the belt as a niche thing that adds value to non main event feuds. If I had to bet money I'd think they're gonna give Punk something to do with the belt for mania and run with cena/HHH with Vince as the main event.

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  69. Advertisers don't know who the fuck John cena or Daniel Bryan are or what they look like, other than when they're doing branded deals like the Fruity Pebbles thing or licensing. Otherwise, they're buying ratings points on a TV show, not fitness models for a catalogue. WWE needs to do what's best to increase viewers to their pro wrestling show. Whether that means it's Bryan or Punk or Cena or Orton (well, it's definitely not orton, he's a proven non-entity over the years) who knows. But to think that Daniel Bryan's beard has anything to do with whether a company is going to buy time on Raw is ridiculous.

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  70. What if the only people left watching the show are internet fans.

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  71. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:12 PM

    You don't watch, right?

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  72. On the one hand, I don't get the beard hate at all. On the other hand, losing a hair vs. hair match was one of the best things to happen to Kurt Angle.

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  73. Kurt was my inspiration to start shaving my head.

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  74. Yea, Orton is essentially the HHH avatar now. The heat is really getting built to be put on HHH.

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  75. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:13 PM

    Well it would be fitting, because to get to that, the angle would have to go completely off its rails

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  76. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:14 PM

    The beard isn't necessary, but in their screwy creative ways, I guess they think that's his gimmick.

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  77. The angle never had rails a week after Summerslam.

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  78. Yes, it's spelled "C-E-N-A".

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  79. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:15 PM

    Well, if you like the Miz, the character, that explains alot

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  80. Vince likes impressing advertisers, someone that looks like a pile of shit that just rolled out of bed is always going to get passed over for a guy that looks like a squeaky clean Marine. It doesn't affect the bottom line but it does affect Vince's thoughts on who is marketable, and Bryan, looking like a fucking drunk, does not scream marketable. So yeah, in Vince's mind, it absolutely does affect whether a company is going to buy time or invest in his company.



    There's a reason the top faces in the corporate era always look like...well...not drunks.

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  81. and "S-H-E-A-M-U-S".

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  82. Not to take too much away from benoit's abilities in the ring, but I would say a portion of his "greatness", in retrospect, also hinged on him working a ridiculously violent style in an era that was defined by all the top guys, including himself, having neck fusion surgeries and, in his case at least, ending up with a brain of a 90 year old Alzheimer's patient. Guys like Bryan and Punk are working a much safer style than Benoit ever did.

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  83. I don't. I like the guy. He works harder for the company than anyone outside of Cena (he outworks Bryan too btw). But I appreciate you calling me stupid in the nicest way you could, lol.

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  84. They panic and put the belt back on Cena.

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  85. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:18 PM

    I did couch my bets with "the character". lol

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  86. THIS. Foley was many, many levels above Show. Someone with a recent clean pin over Stone Cold, someone who had looked good against the Undertaker and gotten MAJOR cred there, a guy also getting huge media attention then because of his book, and someone capable of cutting fucking spectacular promos that would get fans emotionally invested.


    Show has been booked as a midcarder for fucking ages, and he cries on demand. Not exactly Foley talking about HHH destroying his dignity and beating him before turning into Cactus Jack.

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  87. The storyline was also was too convoluted and stupid.

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  88. Fairly often, if he was so wonderful at connecting with an audience he would've drawn money. But he didn't. So we have evidence that he did not connect, or at least, did not connect as much as his fans would like to believe.

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  89. I think we need to spend more time talking about Chris Walker!

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  90. Their wellness policy is just a PR gimmick, IMO. If anyone they really valued ever got a 3rd strike it would be ignored or swept under the rug.

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  91. This and A+ threads should be retired.

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  92. Anyone think that Show actually goes over Orton in this feud, leading to Triple H going over Show at teh Rumble so then HHH goes into Mania as WWE champ? I assume that Officer Farva is probably right— that Show is gonna end up fodder for Mania's main event heel— but is it a sure thing that orton is that heel? I think that the dude is so damaged at this point that the idea of Orton in a main event at this year's Mania just seems ridiculous.


    And since the "money" (uggghhh) is in Show/HHH rather than Show/Orton, I could see them doing that for the title at teh Rumble.


    Then at Mania you do HHH/Cena title vs title (most likely) or HHH/Punk for the title (possible) or HHH/Bryan for the title (probably not).
    And Orton puts over a freshly turned Roman Reigns or something in the opener.

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  93. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:21 PM

    He's the most over guy on the shows. *He turned Shawn Michaels heel.* I don't know what to tell you. It's hard to tell sometimes whether people are trolling or not.


    I don't begrudge people's opinions but it seems like half the time the people that are anti-DB are either trolling or are watching a different show from the one that's going on.


    And I am not a huge huge fan of the guy. But sometimes you gotta know when a guy's over and at least attempt to ride it.

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  94. Agreed. Not Chris Walker though. He is still over like crazy!

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  95. Shawn Michaels is the top 2 or 3 heels ever in the company. Not hard to turn him heel.

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  96. Not trolling I promise, though I will fully admit to being biased on Bryan. Like I said, I don't like the dude much he just doesn't entertain me so, probably, half the time he's on TV I'm not hearing the cheers over my inner monologue saying "Bleh, I wonder if they figured out who the Mom is yet on that other channel..."

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  97. A friend of mine is in his early 20's and is a wrestling fan. He actually watches the current product more than I do. Raw, Smackdown, even Impact. We were talking about DBry not long after SummerSlam and my friend was already getting bored with him. My friend isn't a smark or anything but he's also not a 6 year old mark. His issue was that he viewed DBry as someone who basically just led YES chants and not much else.


    I thought that was an interesting take from someone who's not in the smark/internet wrestling bubble like a lot of us are. Now I think part of his issue could be from WWE poorly booking Bryan after SummerSlam and not giving him much to do other than lead YES chants. But maybe aside from having admittedly really good matches, being small, sporting a fugly beard and always leading YES chants, there just isn't a ton of mainstream appeal.


    I said the night of SummerSlam that Bryan should have been booked like a pissed off Steve Austin the next night on Raw. Just running out and ruining matches and escaping through the crowd. Just raising hell (pardon the pun) because he was so pissed at HHH for ruining his moment in the sun. You could have even had HHH avoid showing ass by Trips being mad at DBry for constantly interrupting the show and wanting Orton to destroy Bryan but Blandy being reluctant to deal with a raging maniac. But instead we got what we got and that's that.

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  98. The Love-Matic Grampa!November 10, 2013 at 6:26 PM

    Has it occurred to anyone that this is probably the best possible outcome for Bryan, career wise? He's firmly ensconced in the upper mid card along with Punk and the mainstays like Show and Kane (who've been around for a combined THREE DECADES, which is remarkable when you think about), is reportedly well-liked, gets a steady paycheck, and (most importantly) doesn't have to deal with scrutiny and headaches that come with being a champion Vince never really wanted and was "forced" to crown (also see: Misterio, Rey). Because if ratings fall and buy rates stagnate with the Chosen Few on top, every excuse in the world will be given to explain away the decline. But if a marginal guy is in the mix, any decline (no matter how insignificant) is treated like a code red disaster and used as "proof" that people only want to see the Chosen Few (even if business doesn't improve to any noticeable degree.

    TL;DR - Bryan is probably happy with his spot, so we probably shouldn't be shedding any tears for him.

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  99. I'd be surprised if Show goes over. I'd bet we get a screwy finish at SS then Orton going over strong either in December or the rumble.

    I'd bet they go back to a Bryan/Cena rematch at some point, and I know it's not popular, bet Cena gets his win back sometimes between Jan 1 and WM.

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  100. If he was given a run with the belt it would just be a Bret Hart / CM Punk reign where he doesn't main event anyway.

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  101. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:29 PM

    It could just as easily end in a confused "meh" or misplaced heat. He was over enough that the fans went with him.

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  102. I have, throughout my life wished I was charismatic enough to start a cult. Sadly my charm is relegated to married women... and the occasional BoD poster that buys me a pizza.

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  103. At least you have that. I'd bet you're the only BoDer who's gotten a pizza bought for you.

    I used to always wonder if there would be some way to start a cult that appeals strictly to hott women. There must be a common trait that can be exploited there.

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  104. The Rock and Shawn Michaels are 2 guys the fans are fucking wanting to boo so badly it is ridiculous.

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  105. They are all fucking dumb... that might be a jumping on point.

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  106. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:37 PM

    I don't think they "want" to boo HBK at all, he's barely even on TV and was playing a straight face before the PPV.

    But seriously, you know if Cena takes him down there the same way, Cena gets booed

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  107. Count me in, I haven't been to a live event since XIX in Seattle but I'd pay top dollar for an HBK full '97 heel run.

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  108. I see the sentiment "Bryan sells alot of merchandise, so hes over and deserves a bigger role" alot. While I don't disagree that he moves merchandise, do we have any statistics that show how much merchandise he moves relative to other people? Serious question, is that stuff disclosed anywhere?

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  109. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:48 PM

    Nope. Cena normally sells the most merch, Punk has a few times I guess when Cena's stuff gets stale or he has something new.


    But Cena basically has a merchandise catalog available and Punk's getting up there himself, so it's not that surprising

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  110. Thanks. Would be interesting to see

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  111. For sure. Hell, Cena's never failed a Wellness test. That really tells you everything you need to know about the program.

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  112. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 6:53 PM

    I think the Observer brings it up from time to time, but it's safe to say if you don't hear anything, Cena is selling the most stuff, because that's status quo

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  113. The Orton vs. Big show WWF Title match should be on the Royal Rumble ppv. Do your crappy Show/Orton/HHH storyline there because it won't hurt the buyrate. As we all know, the Rumble match is the selling point.

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  114. If HHH puts the belt on himself again, I am absolutely done with wrestling.

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  115. Cena is "too big" to insert into the Authority program. He might be the endgame. So I'd assume the WHC is just something for him to fuck for a few months.

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  116. I hear ya. It's like when Rock and Cena teamed against Miz and Truth and the Survivor Series buyrate wasn't too impressive. And they blamed Miz and Truth despite barely giving the two any on-air promo time or let them get heat on their opponents leading up to the event.

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  117. If only Bryan had only been bullied more during his school days maybe he'd be able to stand up to all the backstage politicians who are keeping him down now.

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  118. I hear you...but man, the guy was OVER leading up to and right after Summerslam. Why not give him the ball to see what he can do instead of beating him down constantly and giving the spotlight to HHH?
    DB should have run wild on the Monday after Summerslam Austin-style to stoke the flames of the feud.

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  119. The Chris Benoit is FOR REAL still make me cringe.

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  120. But now he's at that Flair level where fans want to cheer him no matter how "bad" he is.

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  121. Brother, you're on a roll with a side of slaw.

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  122. They made a heck of a tag team, too!

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  123. He just needs to work out more with HHH.

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  124. Who the hell bought you a pizza? And what the hell was on it??

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  125. I like how you tied the last two threads together. You are MVP of the blog this weekend.

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  126. Well, he may have bargaining power when WWE wants to air his wedding on Total Divas.

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  127. Magoonie... and Onions and Peppers... you can send me one also if you want...

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  128. If only he didn't have a HillBilly Jim beard.

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  129. I didn't even go in that thread because I KNEW I'd end up wanting to bash my head off a wall and didn't need that today.

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  130. I'm not trying to undercut Cena, he'd likely sell the most regardless, but it's easier to sell the most merch when you HAVE the most merch.

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  131. I think you just BeardMoneyed BeardMoney

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  132. Because they had no intention of doing so. You ever try getting corporate bosses to admit they're wrong and/or change direction? As much as I love Bryan--and goddamn, I really do--I think they intended to run this story as it was, and Bryan was just the body on the other side seeing the lights. It was never about Bryan, but always about Orton/HHH. And when you look at it, it's a tiered setup: Bryan leads to Show leads to Cena, perhaps.

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  133. See the financial sector, post-recession.

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  134. Porn-Peddling Jef VinsonNovember 10, 2013 at 7:47 PM

    I'm actually curious on how the DBry/Brie Bella relationship will play out on Total Divas now that he taken a step back on the card.

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  135. Bull and Shit. He fucked over THE UNDERTAKER. people wouldn't boo him.
    They postured him as heelish several times and the crowd has always shit all over it and cheered him anyway.


    Until that Bryan segmant

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  136. Until the next monday

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  137. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 7:54 PM

    Yep, him and Punk have sub-pages for the merch, no one else does.


    And if you buy an Antonio Cesaro action figure it probably rings up as a John Cena anyway.

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  138. Porn-Peddling Jef VinsonNovember 10, 2013 at 8:21 PM

    https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/q71/1459699_415732948556101_489213235_n.jpg

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  139. More like if only he had a pair of Hillbilly Jim overalls.

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  140. I'm all for anything (reasonable) that sets somebody apart from everybody else. How often do we complain about the whole "guys in black trunks who walk to the ring wearing their t-shirt" thing? Bryan's look is fairly unique to him (yes, there are several others with crazy beards, but it still seems different). I still don't get why Cody shaved off his mustache. Again, it set him apart.

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  141. Agreed. My stance throughout the Bryan angle was that if it ended with him coming out on top and as WWE Champion, the storyline was more or less fine (although not perfect, obviously). But with the ACTUAL ending, the storyline is downright baffling.

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  142. Stranger in the AlpsNovember 10, 2013 at 8:45 PM

    STRIKE HARD, STRIKE FAST, NO MERCY SIR!

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  143. Honestly, I think the SummerSlam buyrate is irrelevant. I think they decided the end of this storyline before that buyrate ever came in.

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  144. Fear does not exist in this dojo.

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  145. For anyone who caught Total Divas, it turns out that it's actually a great alternate dimension version of WWE. By that I mean Summerslam ended with Daniel Bryan winning the title and celebrating as champion, while John Cena was about to be out for 6 months.

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  146. Ziggler is a terrible babyface. His cash-in was hot, but he just can't be a babyface at all.

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  147. Well, they film stuff and then release it months later, so we're probably going to get the SummerSlam stuff as this seasons arc.

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  148. Punk is a better worker than Benoit.

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  149. How is HBK getting booed for trolling an audience IN CANADA any evidence that the mainstream WWE audience wanted to boo him? Michaels has gotten consistent, unadulterated love from WWE crowds since the 2002 comeback. No boos, no apathy, just big face reactions every time. The fact that the crowd turned on him so quickly and so harshly (chanting "you sold out" and "you tapped out" with no prompting) is a big deal, and shows how much the mainstream crowds are behind Bryan.
    Yes, HBK is a better heel than a face, I agree. But he's been megaover as a face for a decade, and WWE fans are conditioned to cheer the legends above all else. Blindly hate on Bryan all you want, but that crowd turning on Michaels was a big deal.


    HBK pulls that shit on face Sheamus or even Cena, I guarantee you the crowd doesn't turn on Michaels.

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  150. I read today that the World Championship is considered important now that Cena's holding it. Isn't that nice?

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  151. What's the difference between Chris Reeves and Chris Walker?

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  152. Bryan got to beat Cena and Orton clean, is banging the second hottest female on the roster and gets to hang out with this childhood idols doing what he loves and is paid a shit-ton of money for it.


    I'm glad Bryan is enjoying the success he's enjoying, but come on guys, he's doing fine.

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  153. Porn-Peddling Jef VinsonNovember 10, 2013 at 9:18 PM

    DBry heel turn - He joins the Wyatts.

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  154. There is zero evidence of this. It's been 10 years of WWE crowds treating Michaels as pretty much the most consistently over face on the roster. Christ, like another poster said he cost Undertaker the WHC a few years ago and the crowds still loved Michaels. Yes, Michaels is a great heel, but it doesn't matter— fans have not wanted to boo him at all. The fact that that crowd turned on him so decisively — it wasn't a split crowd, or a wishy-washy reaction— is a big deal. Again, if HBK pulls that shit on almost any other face (let's take Sheamus for example) the crowd doesn't turn on HBK at all.

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  155. Porn-Peddling Jef VinsonNovember 10, 2013 at 9:19 PM

    The horse would be the one in the wheelchair if Chris Walker was riding it?

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  156. Going into Summerslam the reports were that whatever this McMahon storyline was, it was scheduled to kickoff at/around Summerslam and be blown off at Wrestlemania...


    Daniel Bryan wins the WWE Championship at Summerslam, only to be screwed out of it by a double-heel turn by HHH/Orton, setting up this storyline that's going to be blown off at Wrestlemania...


    If the end game is Daniel Bryan getting the title at Wrestlemania, he's not wrestling for it in 3 pay per views immediately after getting screwed at Summerslam. I think the plan all along was to use Bryan's popularity to put heel heat on HHH/Orton, and use Bryan as their first feud out the gate - same way that Big Show's going to be sacrificed next. There's an end game at Wresltemania and it's probably wearing jean shorts.

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  157. One's a Walker.

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  158. Bryan's with Kaitlyn?

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  159. Man, unless they pull a rabbit outta their ass with Austin this year, I think Mania's buyrate gonna take another dip. Their answer to not having The Rock is... John Cena vs Randy Orton? Holy fuck that's a downgrade. We're talking a match that's main evented Mania already, multiple Summerslams, and multiple B-PPVs already, and both guys are on the down-slop in terms of their drawing power. I don't care how you corporate-speak it, that is a weak-ass main event in 2014.
    And I guess the alternative is Cena-HHH, which fits into the same exact category. Super stale match between two guys who are years past their drawing peak.


    Again, I'm not saying this because I would argue that Punk or Bryan or another internet darling would obviously draw better. I'm just stating that having to go into Wrestlemania 30 with John Cena and Randy Orton still positioned as their top draws is a bad place to be in. There's gonna be a huuuuge Rock-hangover this year.

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  160. I like Bryan, I'd like him to become the top guy, but personally CM Punk was the last guy who captured my interest. I just like Punk's dickhead character more, and after seeing how that turned out, I know better...


    But Bryan's been getting louder and louder organic reactions for a couple of years now....he was a heel that they squashed in 18 seconds and he's the one who came out of it more popular. His fan support has been growing, and he gets the loudest reactions on the show, unless you count half the crowd booing John Cena out of the building...Shawn MIchaels has been as beloved as it comes the last few years, and the crowd turned on him for screwing Bryan, and cheered as he made him tap out. There was some incident this weekend where fans started chanting for Bryan at a house show that he wasn't at....


    I don't understand how this can not translate to money somehow. It just doesn't make sense that he's just not as popular as it seems, when he seems to be one of the most popular acts they've seen in years.

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  161. fans cheered michaels cause they were getting HBK/Taker at mania.

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  162. When were Bret Hart and CM Punk losing non-title matches every week during their reigns?
    Yeah Punk wasn't main eventing shows til after the heel turn, but he was still booked as a pretty dominant champion throughout.

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  163. Well there's talk of Cena/Orton being title for title - you know that one title that they've treated as an afterthought for years now? John Cena has it so it's important now! They could have that match be Orton's WWE Championship vs the belt Cena keeps his shorts up with and it'd be just as prestigious.


    I could have gotten into Cena/Orton a couple of years ago when Orton's heel character was hot and ended up turning him face, but I don't want to see face Cena vs heel Orton yet again - especially since they seemed to be going back to the same Orton heel character Cena's already feuded with multiple times.

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  164. He heeled on Taker and they still cheered him, and it was a split crowd during the Taker/HBK matches. And that's the fucking UNDERTAKER, the most respected and loved guy on the roster. The idea that fans have spent the last 10 years just dying to boo HBK is ridiculous. He's been as consistently beloved a face as it gets.

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  165. "That's bullshit!" - Bret Hart

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  166. Exactly, it's not even as if the roles are reversed and it's face Orton vs heel cena. Nope, it's the EXACT same Cena/Orton match that has headlined probably 10-12 WWE PPVs already, including Mania 24.
    Remember when they tried to reenact the Warrior/Hogan moment at the Rumble a few years ago between Cena and Orton and absolutely NOBODY cared? And that was 5 years ago when both characters were fresher.


    If this is where they're going, it's a bad bad draw.


    And I don't think that Lesnar vs Taker in what should be billed as "The Foregone Conclusion Match" helps at all either.

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  167. 2nd match maybe. but for the first match most of the crowd were firmly behind UT.

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  168. He is a genetic jackhammer. I find it hard to believe Vince doesn't have any illegitimate children. Unless he had the woman killed. I could see 80's Vince doing that.

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  169. I just remember it as people cheering their heads off that whole match, but even if fans were pulling harder for Undertaker at Mania 25... that's not the same as the crowd turning HBK heel.


    The crowd unanimously turning HBK heel on Raw was a big deal. There's absolutely no way around it. The other faces on the roster mayyyybe get a mixed reaction at best against HBK in that situation.

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  170. I've said it before but the simple fact is that Vince (and HHH & Steph) is the promoter here. If he can't make a shitload of money off a guy who is getting the kind of unanimous, giant reactions that Daniel Bryan gets from the WWE audience, well then that's on Vince as a promoter. This isn't Bryan getting cheered solely in smark towns, or just from a certain demographic. He's getting that reaction in every city, every podunk town that Raw is in, and with kids and adults alike. He's over with their fanbase. It's up to Vince to fucking make money off of that now.

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  171. But how could you say that! You see Benoit actually broke people's necks, which means he's better at professional wrestling.

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  172. maybe. but during the first match there were loud boos when Michaels was looking for countout win after the suicide dive

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  173. I must agree. Bryan lacks that killer instinct.

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  174. I think the hole in the "Vince is following the money" argument is that CM Punk had some serious mainstream appeal and they still buried him under HHH/Nash. Obviously, we're not privy to all the numbers, but there had to be some value lost in not taking advantage of the buzz he was generating. The Punk situation and, to a lesser extent, the Bryan situation possibly suggest that Vince is stuck in his old ways and is not open to the possibility that other strategies could actually make money.

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  175. I said below fans have been wanting to boo MIchaels for years. He's an amazing heel and fans actually have fun rooting against him. Has nothing to do with DB.

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  176. And you bury the guy's who have any chance of breaking out. I mean, the Punk situation is still way more egregious than the Bryan one. CM Punk was getting serious mainstream crossover appeal - more than any wrestler since The Rock, if we're being honest. But he was buried under a text message. They had to have left a ton of money on the table with that decision.

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  177. Punk is very sloppy compared to Benoit who was super crisp and tight.

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  178. Customer: Ah, a Daniel Bryan t-shirt [click]


    WWE Shopzone: 'Your John Cena "Rise Above Hate" Menses Pot will be delivered in 5-7 days'


    Customer: GOD DAMMIT!

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  179. "fans have been wanting to boo MIchaels for years." And your evidence for that has been... the ten years of unanimous cheers that Shawn Michaels has gotten? The fact that he's a super over babyface to all demographics? Seriously dude, what evidence is there that the fanbase has been hiding a pent up hatred of HBK that they've sneakily masked with consistent face pops for a decade?


    Again, yes Shawn is a better heel. But that's irrelevant because the fanbase clearly loves him. Shawn hasn't been getting mixed reactions for the past decade, he's been getting pure babyface pops. Throw in the fact that WWE fans are conditioned to root for the legends and you get a guy who should be pretty much teflon.


    Again, switch out Daniel Bryan with another current WWE babyface like Sheamus or Cena and tell me you get anywhere even NEAR that heel heat. I mean, it wasn't even directly after the turn— it was the next night and the crowd jumps on HBK right away. Put Sheamus in the Bryan spot, and when HBK gets to the "I'm an A+ player so show me some respect and shake my hand" the crowd would be popping FOR Shawn, not against him. The heeling worked because Shawn knows how to heel, for sure, but also because the fans loved Bryan. Otherwise Shawn gets a babyface or mixed reaction at worst.

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  180. I don't know that Sabu would agree with how not sloppy Benoit was

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  181. ARRRRGH THE BARBARIANNovember 10, 2013 at 11:19 PM

    Alot of the injures to guys like Benoit are accumulation. Don't forget he worked outside of NA and things are different in other places.

    Cena is going to have some of the same problems re: neck and all. And he works as soft as a pillow in comparison. You just cannot bump for 250-300 nights a year for 10 years + and not have some kind of consequences from it.

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  182. "He's getting that reaction in every city, every podunk town that Raw is in, and with kids and adults alike."

    I understand what you're saying but the reactions to Bryan (although generally pretty good) are not the giant unanimous reactions you're talking about. Just go through the comments on this blog talking about the "stupid, quiet" crowds from just before Summerslam onwards. Some weeks are good, some others not.

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  183. Punk's 'mainstream appeal wasn't nearly as high as a lot of people think it was.

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  184. It was actually not bad at all. Lot of smart comments.

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  185. Next season, on Total Diva's...

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  186. Yeah, I hated that Punk was constantly on the undercard (especially when the main events were things like "Cena VS Johnny Ace featuring Big Show turning for the 7000th time" or "Cena VS Big Show in a "We've done this tons of times already" match...had no issue with Cena VS Brock or Cena VS Rock main eventing over Punk), but he didn't really lose a bunch of non title matches. Occasionally, but not really more than anyone else as far as I can remember. Maybe I'm wrong.

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  187. Yeah, but you're assuming Orton's in the main event. If the title match ACTUALLY main events Wrestlemania, not sure what match they can do with Orton that people would honestly care about as a WM main event (Orton VS Cena to unify the titles is probably it...I sure as hell wouldn't want to see it, but maybe the title unification thing would help), but if they're also doing, say, Cena/Undertaker, a match involving Brock, a match involving HHH, an Orton title match might be fourth down in their "top Wrestlemania matches" list. They'll call it a "main event" like they do every year, but it's not any more of a "main event" than Edge/Del Rio was a couple years ago.

    I'm not sure which route they're going to go. I'm not sure Orton is even in the WM title match, although I don't know what else he would do if that's the case. I don't think Bryan/Punk is entirely out of the picture...teaming them up against the Wyatts was so random that I think it's at least POSSIBLE (not saying definite by any means) that they were thinking ahead to a possible WM match where Bryan/Punk team up for a few months here and then one wins the Rumble with the other winning the title at the Rumble or the EC. Or maybe you get Orton/Punk for the title with Bryan facing HHH. Lots of different ways to go still I think.

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  188. I dunno. Eventually he surely does, but I'm not sure I see any reason at all to do it between January 1st and WM. Why kill off a big match in the future? Cena finally beating Punk was one thing...they had already faced off a ton of times from MitB 2011 up to that match. Bryan/Cena only happened once, why kill it off randomly before WM on some random Raw (because I'm not sure I see why they'd face off at the Rumble or Elimination Chamber, I'm sure both will be prepping for their WM matches by that point and have other things to do). I'd expect a rematch sometime next year, but probably after WM. Maybe when they decide to turn Bryan again.

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  189. 1. Agreed on Ziggler.


    2. Eh, Fandango is essentially a midcard gimmick at best that only works as well as it did because Johnny Curtis made it work. It's still a really limited gimmick and once the novelty of humming his theme went away, people stopped caring. You can blame WWE for the gimmick if you like, but the Fandango gimmick is what it is.



    3. No KNOWN reason is the key thing. You might be absolutely and 100% right that they simply didn't have anything for them to do. Or it might be that they're setting up a future match between Punk and Bryan by teaming them now so they can split them later. Or maybe they legitimately are trying to get the Wyatt's over more by letting them at least somewhat appear to be on the level of Punk and Bryan (with those two bumping all over for them, especially Harper) and once this is done they'll be back to bigger things (particularly Punk). Kane being a heel again probably has more to do with them not really having anything for him to do as a face at this point. I confess I'm not sure I can come up with much. Unless you want to follow up Orton VS Big Show with Orton VS Kane, what do you do with a face Kane?



    4. He was tagging with Swagger long before the swing got over, they just haven't split them up yet. I really don't like how they've used Cesaro and I don't particularly care about his team with Swagger, but it's not like the swing was getting over and THEN they teamed him with Swagger. Cesaro wasn't really doing anything so they stuck him with Swagger, and THEN it got over. If he's still tagging with Swagger a month or two after Wrestlemania (I could see them slipping through the cracks until then with a lot going on), sure.

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  190. EXACTLY. This whole "Well, the WWE follows the numbers so we need to respect that!" argument is bullshit. The numbers are not down because Daniel Bryan was in a main event program. The numbers are down because the product has been stale, fermented garbage for years, and nobody believes that management has the capacity to deliver on anything they promise anymore. And they would be right. Why the fuck SHOULD anyone buy PPVs given the WWE's track record in making new stars and giving fans what they want?

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  191. I argued this, in particular that the north-east crowds were hot, and the southern and western crowds were noticeably cooler.

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  192. I said better worker, not crisper worker.

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  193. That is one reason Punk is better.

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