90s WcW was always the metaphorical casual girlfriend in my life. She looked great at times, was cool enough to distract me for a couple hours, but we could never really make that lasting meaningful connection. The closest I ever got to getting "hooked" was 91 and obviously 97-98. Now Vince McMahon, theres a guy who can hold on to a mans heart. Soooo, lets go to a 98 WcW flashpoint moment for "What If"...
What if Goldberg beats Nash at Starrcade 98 to stay undefeated? Things to consider...
- Goldberg debuted September 97, won the strap from Hogan on July 6th, 1998 and lost to Nash in December of 98. Injured his hand in December 99.
- Was it the right time for Goldberg to lose at Starrcade 98? Was Nash the right guy to end it at the time?
- Was Goldbergs streak nearing the point of diminishing returns? How much longer could it have drawn money?
- Does an undefeated Goldberg go on to lead WcW in a resurgence against WWF in 99? Does his "star power" reach the next level, the Austin, Rock, Hogan level?
EDIT: I remember watching a Youshoot, I forget who it was, maybe Corenette, but a thought from that has always struck me as interesting. The thought was that undefeated streaks do more harm then good for talent. Reason being: there is never going to be a good way to end it, and the performer is over strictly due to his streak. As soon the undefeated streak ends, the gimmick is essentially over. Not sure if I agree but food for thought
EDIT: I remember watching a Youshoot, I forget who it was, maybe Corenette, but a thought from that has always struck me as interesting. The thought was that undefeated streaks do more harm then good for talent. Reason being: there is never going to be a good way to end it, and the performer is over strictly due to his streak. As soon the undefeated streak ends, the gimmick is essentially over. Not sure if I agree but food for thought
These are just a few thoughts. Go in any direction you like.
*Personal random sidebar* Was reading about the Jersey mall shooting yesterday. I have an opinion on everything except gun control. I have heard rational and articulate arguments made by both sides throughout my life. Is there hard evidence that show countries with strict gun control laws endure less violent crimes? Do we still feel its a relevant "right" to own a gun? Yadda yadda yadda. Thoughts?
Ultimate Warrior has his own network?! Oprah's on it?!?!?!?
ReplyDelete"Where are they now?"
ReplyDeleteGlad to see Hogan really gave TNA the publicity they paid him for :-/
Nice. One Warrior Network. Don't know why I never saw that before.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if, or how, the ratings drop in the last hour will affect creative's "plan."
ReplyDelete"So...the Punk/Bryan vs Wyatts angle outperformed our current Main Event? Hm. Clealry, we need to bury those smaller guys even further."
- HHH/VKM/whoever the fuck books this stuff.
That's the type of thing Hogan did back in WCW, if his segment did badly in the ratings then it was clearly the fault of the guys who came before him.
ReplyDeleteI can see where there would perhaps be some truth to that, but not once there is a pattern established. I sweat to fucking christ, I am sometimes truly mystified by what makes money in this world and how. One would think that a program with the production values of Nitro and Raw would be operated by a business functioning like a well oiled machine, but that apparently wasn't the case, as evidenced by all the "on the fly" stuff that happened or happens.
ReplyDeleteGranted, flexibility is required in a business where guys are hurt or plans clearly aren't working. I dunno. Clearly, either having a successful wrestl....errr....entertainment company is not as easy as we'd like to think, or the only one left somehow makes it more difficult than it should be.
But...fuck...Los Matadores? Really? WTF is next? Blind Melon Chitlin?
I am really surprised Hulk is willing to do a "Where are they now" show... I can legit see him thinking he is still that big of a star that people automatically know what he is up to.
ReplyDelete"I'm right here, brother!"
ReplyDeleteI hope he does the Andre at the Silverdome story
Everyone is excited for the first hour so it doesn't matter who is in that slot, they get a nice rating. It doesn't mean people want to see Punk and especially Bryan. The second hour is the problem. People tune out because there isn't enough HHH/Stephanie/Orton/Lawsuit talk and forget to tune back in for the final hour and the real stars of the show. The key is going to be having more HHH, more Stephanie, and definitely more lawsuit segments earlier in the show.
ReplyDeleteDidn't NBC do that to Conan O'Brien?
ReplyDeleteIt's a proven strategy for people who are complete idiots.
Screw it, load the first hour with HHH and Stephanie and then the last two hours can be remakes of "The Paper Chase" tv series.
ReplyDeleteAny idea on the tna return?
ReplyDeleteIn this case thought it really doesn't matter who was in the last segment, no one tunes in to wrestling to see a fucking legal discussion. 5 mins in every casual fan rightfully should have gone "WTF is this shit" and tuned away to find monster trucks or amazing races or whatever the fuck TV is full of now.
ReplyDeleteProbably Jarrett.
ReplyDeletePretty sure TV is full of honey boo boo. No, I am not capitalizing that.
ReplyDeleteProbably Jarrett
ReplyDeleteI sure fell asleep as soon as that Rhodes tag match was over.
ReplyDeleteNothing interests me less in professional wrestling than the Big Show.
I took a quick look at the list of TNA champs... only four possible names came to mind:
ReplyDeleteJarrett (as mentioned by others)
Raven (HIGHLY unlikely... isn't he in bad health?)
Shamrock (Yeah, right...)
Rhyno (Very doubtful)
Oh right, Rhyno was champ for a bit...it could be him. I'd prefer it be him, at any rate.
ReplyDeleteGotta be Jarrett then im guessing. Could be worse I guess...
ReplyDeleteI did see and dismiss three other names:
ReplyDeleteChristian and R-Truth (WWE contracts aren't easy to just ignore), and Mick Foley (pretty sure he's done and happy)
No way Christian or R-Truth leaving wouldn't have leaked beforehand. It's Jarrett.
ReplyDeleteYeah, they should book Punk/Bryan in the main angles. Because when they do, ratings rise. Oh, wait.
ReplyDelete"Talk to me Warryahs!"
ReplyDeleteSo HHH and Steph have been ratings draws the last year?
ReplyDeleteWith their tv rights deal expiring soon, i'm praying Raw gets reduced back down to 2 hours come the new year. I hope they leave NBC Universal and sign with Fox. Raw and Smackdown on Fox Sports 1, no Main Event,no Saturday Morning Slam. Maybe get NXT back on US Television on Fox Sports 2 or something.
ReplyDeleteAnything to shake things up a bit. Of course if WWE doubles or triples their TV rights fees, we may see the exact opposite and get even more WWE programming on television. Those networks will need to recoup their costs with commercial income and more shows/longer shows = more commercials!
Who's ready for sum 3 hour Smackdowns!!!!
Or, it could be a swerve and either Rampage Jackson or Tito Ortiz will appear.
ReplyDeleteOh God, it's Jarrett, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteRatings sure skyrocketed on Monday. Look at them go! More legalese that isn't even grounded in reality with the worst legal system in the universe, wherever that is! At least if they did this stupid angle 15 years ago, someone would have ripped Steph's shirt off. But, no, we can't even get that, we get Show's fat gut instead.
ReplyDeleteNext week, Big Show gets revenge when he gets the World's Strongest Process Server.
Nope. Never said they were. They're not the answer. Neither are Punk/Bryan.
ReplyDeleteAlthough if we want to be technical, more people paid for a PPV headlined by HHH and Brock than paid for a PPV with Cena-Bryan AND Punk/Brock.
Who's the answer then? I guess there's no answer and we should all just stop watching Shut it down, no one draws, especially the people Ian doesn't like.
ReplyDeleteFor the love of...
ReplyDeleteI am not saying ratings are good. All I'm saying is that the 'Punk/Bryan are buried' argument is false logic. Firstly because no, they aren't; both are bigger stars then they were a year ago. Secondly, because buried implies if they were running the show ratings would be up - which isn't true, given their reigns on top led ratings to fall.
You know what, I did miss that little caveat. "World Title", NOT TNA World Title. And those two have finished their little Bellator feud...
ReplyDelete'Especially the people Ian doesn't like.'
ReplyDeleteYeah... I do like Daniel Bryan. Punk, not so much given he's spent months treating Ryback/Axel like jobbers and holding people back the same way he complained about being held back.
And what's the answer? I know it's not HHH/Show or Punk/Bryan. Maybe Big E Langston?
EVERYTHING leads to ratings falling. That's the problem, so 6 months of "same old shit" leading to Orton vs. Cena at WM ain't going to solve anything. The point is to give people a freaking chance instead of shunting them down the card because of bad buyrates. The ratings DID NOT go into the toilet when Cena left.
ReplyDeleteThe difference in heat between the Bryan/HBK segment and that schmoz on Monday was exponential. It's stupid, the end. Their backup plan is this. It's not even like Cena is front and center, at least that would make sense. He's the midcard champion of the World. While Trips and Steph get 8 segments a show.
Punk was the companies top heel from July 2012 to March 2013. Bryan had three consecutive PPVs in the main match. What more of a chance do you want before someone changes tact?
ReplyDeleteWho then turns on Show, because That What He Do.
ReplyDeletePunk's talented.
ReplyDeleteRyback and Axel are not.
So you're saying Punk was right to bury them, instead of being 'best in the world' and making other people look good?
ReplyDeleteWell, to be fair Brock was still an intriguing draw at that point. After a year of awful Triple H matches, including a loss at Mania and making Brock look like a pussy, and booking Brock so it's clear he has no purpose— yeah, Brock right now has been devalued. he doesn't mean shit.
ReplyDeleteIt's also hilarious to dismiss guys as "not the answer" or "not draws" after what, their first try in the main events. I mean Bryan especially. The dude was a tag team guy and midcarder all the way up until Summerslam. He had never been presented as a star. How is his first main event opportunity supposed to be how we judge his "starness"? Christ, Wrestlemania 13 had the lowest Mania buyrate of all-time. They shoulda buried that Stone Cold guy the next night!
I'm not saying Bryan definitely IS the answer. But to say that they've given him that chance and that he's already failed is ridiculous.
Triple H is in his mid 40's and works 2 matches a year. No one can even get heat on his wife. It's stale as fuck. If you're going to pull the plug on one half of the equation, it might be a decent idea to pull the plug on the other half. This needs to go to the dustbin just like Nexus did. Get back to me at the end of this 2 month Show feud and tell me they're not just as stale, if not more.
ReplyDeleteThe Best in the World can only do so much with big lugs.
ReplyDeleteNot even Ric Flair could make Giant Gonzales look good.
Except Austin didn't main event Mania, Sid vs Taker did. Which is a terrible main event, and is to blame for the bad rating.
ReplyDeleteAnd look, again, I like Bryan. I just don't think he's going to be the guy that raises ratings. Which is fine, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels didn't either, and both are two (IMO) all time greats. Nothing says he can't main event again.
The NOC-Battleground-HIAC ppvs were booked around A) constantly saying Daniel Bryan is not a star who is not worth HHH's time and B) The promise of screwjob finishes.
ReplyDeleteDon't pretend like they booked Bryan as a fighting champion who was defending his title and THAT bombed with viewers. Then you have an argument as to whether Bryan-as-a-main-eventer is working or not. This was not that.
Oh god. Good catch. The lack of TNA in "world title holder" def opens up that possiblity
ReplyDeleteExcept Summerslam didn't do particularly well either, and that was with weeks of Cena saying Daniel Bryan was a worthy challenger.
ReplyDeleteWell, I was going to say something, but christ...looking down the page, never mind.
ReplyDeletePoor Tommy Rich, reduced to this.
ReplyDeleteWrong belt. (If you're referring to the TNA topic)
ReplyDeleteAnd where was Daniel Bryan at BEFORE the summerslam build? They certainly weren't doing anything to protect him and/or build him up before that during the summer.
ReplyDeleteNot relevant to this thread in any way, but I thought this was one of the funniest, most logical lines I've ever read:
ReplyDelete"I went skydiving once. They had me crawl out onto the wing of a shaky little prop plane, wind howling and ripping at my clothes, and when I was far enough out, the instructor said: "Now, let go." To which I answered: "Fuck you."
http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-most-badass-man-vs.-nature-showdowns-ever-photographed_p2#ixzz2jtEaMzFD
Both those matches were heavily pushed, and I'd say Austin-Bret moreso. That was the hot feud at the time, whereas Sid-Taker was thrown together last minute to put ANYONE in the title match.
ReplyDeleteBret vs Austin was super hyped, it was Austin's first chance at a match taht could sell a show...and it bombed historically. Therefore, according to your logic, they should have killed Austin's push because he "wasn't the guy".
By the way, Austin was heavily featured on PPV for the next few months, including matches against Taker for the title and against Bret, and those buyrates sucked too. So I mean come on, that Stone Cold guy really was a bust.
But again, your argument is that Bryan is definitively not the answer because he didn't draw huge in his FIRST CHANCE at being in a drawing role. Again, he was a midcarder and tag guy for his entire run. Yes, they started pushing him as a singles guy a few months before Summerslam. But the fact is that was the first time he'd ever been treated as a main eventer. It's ridiculous to judge a guy's ceiling based on that situation.
ReplyDeleteIt's thinking like that which leaves them with no viable draws other than Cena or the old timers, because they refuse to double down and give anyone else a real shot at being main event babyfaces. If they really wanted to give Bryan a shot, have him win the title and give him a real run as the face of the company for a few months. Instead they set it up to fail, so they once again have no options.
I can't wait for the "if you don't give me the title shot at Wrestlemania I'm going to the press!" angle.
ReplyDeleteRoland Alexander RIP. My third favorite moment in Beyond The Mat involves him and 2 of his prospects having a match, Vince saunters by backstage, is aghast at a botched frankensteiner or something then excuses himself by asking Jim Cornette to "Get me a tape"
ReplyDeleteLike Vince watches tapes of indy dudes on his 43 minutes of downtime a day.
Suddenly Punk has to lift Nexus B-teamers up to incredible heights. Make no mention of how they were "lifted up" during their first run
ReplyDeleteThat might be the WM main angle this year: How many different ways can someone get a shot at the WWE title?
ReplyDeleteRumble Winner
Because the Authoritah says so
#1 Contender match winner (Feb. PPV)
Hated rival dragged into the match
...?
The answer is letting someone breathe so they can get over, instead of pulling the plug on everything after 6 weeks and going back to the mid 30 somethings who are held together by tape.
ReplyDeleteYes, Big E could be huge. But they have to build him properly, they have to let him on the mic (which they have not yet) so he can develop his character, and they have to protect him. I'm not sure they're capable of any of this.
It seems like they have no patience for anything other than their very short list of protected guys. Basically if you're not Cena, Trips, Punk, Orton or Sheamus you're one bad move away from the shitter.
Exactly, Austin didn't start drawing until Tyson got involved.
ReplyDeleteYep, they left it up in the air as to which match would be the title match up until the last Raw, I think. It was definitely a 1-1A thing
ReplyDeleteThe last time I was watching the Pelican Brief I couldn't help but think it would make a great wrestling angle.
ReplyDeleteabeyance is the title holder
ReplyDeleteEXACTLY. Bret vs Austin, when you actually think about it for more than a second, was clearly the biggest selling point of Mania 13.
ReplyDeleteEven at the time it was clear that the only reason that Taker vs Sid had the belt was because that match needed the title or else it was completely worthless. Bret vs Austin was the match that A) Had the biggest star of those guys (at the time) in Bret B) Had the most backstory and feud and C) Had the Submission gimmick.
And hell, Stone Cold had won the goddamn Royal Rumble already!
So again, you had Stone Cold coming off a massive push (Rumble winner) facing the biggest star in WWE at the time in a heavily hyped co-main event gimmick match at their BIGGEST PPV, and it utterly fucking bombs.
Stone Cold Steve Austin just didn't have "it", clearly.
To be fair to Punk, while he was champion, there were quite a few times that he was definitely not the main event of whatever PPV was on at the time.
ReplyDeleteBREAKING!
ReplyDeleteKane is the new WWE Director of Operations!
Sheamus is a great example. (And keep in mind, I actually think Sheamus is an awesome worker and is far from a slug on the mic.)
ReplyDeleteThey absolutely wanted Sheamus to be the next Cena. 100%. As soon as he turned face after Summerslam 2011, he was given the God push of all God pushes. He never fucking lost EVER, destroyed heel after heel (Christian, Ziggler, Swagger, a stream of Jinder-esque jobbers), won the Rumble by beating Chris Jericho, won the WHC at mania in 18 seconds, and defended the title for 5-6 months straight, consistently beating heels clean.
He was positioned as the lead face on Smackdown, the announcers verbally sucked his dick, nobody was undercutting Sheamus as a "B+" player, and yet... nothing. He just didn't catch on, definitely nowhere near the level someone should after getting that consistent of a babyface megpush. He wasn't popping buyrates, he wasn't popping ratings, and fans weren't giving him the megastar treatment.
Now THERE is an example of WWE giving someone a legitimate push. There's a push whose aftermath one can judge.
Obviously, WWE knows how to push someone if they REALLY want to try and make them a big star. This Daniel Bryan experiment the last few months was not that.
And yet fans give Bryan the megastar treatment, despite the opposite happening to him during the Sheamus run.
ReplyDeleteAnd it had a double turn built into it, introduced a new character (Shamrock), and was the basis for the USA/Canada angle they ran with until Bret left. It's definitely the most important match on the card and is no worse than 1-1A, like I said.
ReplyDeleteDude, how many high profile jobs should Punk have done this year? He already had lost to Rock twice, Taker, Brock, freakin' HEYMAN (which was basically a job to Ryback, as he's the one who got the heat for it)--- should they have also jobbed him to Axel and Ryback? For Chrissakes, Punk's one of their biggest moneymakers and stars, he needed to win a feud somewhere.
ReplyDeleteRyback had already been knocked from main event status after losing the Cena feud. Axel was set up to fail WAY before Punk ever got to him. I mean, HHH smacked Axel around and gave him zero credibility in the dude's DEBUT.
Both guys, especially Axel, were dead in the water already. Not sure what you think they deserved in the Punk feud.
LOL at thinking someone is holding Axel back.
ReplyDeleteApparently reports are that WWE is in talks to bring in John Grisham as head of creative.
ReplyDeleteThis Kane angle makes me realize how much money was left on the table with wasted opportunity. Think if the Road Warriors had grown out their hair, traded in the paint and spikes for polos and khakis, and been renamed The Commuters. MONEY.
ReplyDeleteGeez I wonder who the new star TNA is bringing in on imp...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
ReplyDeleteYep, they book for no one other than themselves. The guy who got over the most out of Sheamus' megapush was DB. And when it came time for DB's megapush, it got cut off after 6 weeks.
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind Sheamus was pushed like a god for over a year and they didn't pull back on it until Punk eviscerated him after he turned.
Kayfabe Commentaries had an upcoming release I'm really looking forward to. Guest Booker with Gloria Allred: Relitigating The Alundra Blayze Title-Trashing Incident.
ReplyDeleteIf only the new Call of Duty had a special feature where you could unlock a JAG attorney to issue a cease and desist to your enemies rather than actually engage in violence.
ReplyDeleteSo the three hour raws are well over a year old and the entire time theyve lost viewers each hour. Maybe its time to go back to the 80's and have all the major shit go down in the first hour or at least by 930. I know if they had run the hhh/Orton/show thing at 845 and then done the six man or just some other matches to end the show I would have kept watching. Who says you have to run the main angle at 1055? The only people watching at that point are older fans who just want to see a match anyways
ReplyDeleteKane needs a new finish, perhaps an Iron Claw-chokeslam called the Invisible Hand.
ReplyDeleteThe hardest I've laughed watching ESPN was a time I had it on in the background. They were interviewing pacman about his off field troubles, I was only half following along, then I looked up at the TV...and Jeff Jarrett was sitting right next to him.
ReplyDelete"OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH WHHHHHHHHHATTTTTTTT AAAAAAA PUTTTTTTTTTTTT"
ReplyDeleteI like it. Name needs a little work, but the premise is great
Re: TNA it will probably be Devon. Wasn't he world TV champ
ReplyDeleteLol. Most random pairing ever
ReplyDeleteFormer World Title Holder: She didn't say TNA World Title Holder. This is wiiiiiiide open. The World is a big place, and many people have held titles in the World. And she didn't say that they were alive, just that they were returning. OMG.....you know what this means, don't you? In an attempt to jack up sagging ratings, Dixie Carter has resorted to black magic voodoo. RETURNING from the dead, former NWA World Midget Champion, Little Beaver!
ReplyDelete.....the only caveat is that Dixie needs to keep feeding him live chickens to keep him animated. Chicken is expensive, and this will increase TNA's operating costs greatly. I'm not too sure about this idea.
pfffttt....the carpool lane is not for sissies.
ReplyDeleteYou forgot "chosen by the titleholder who thought he deserved it"
ReplyDelete