Hi Scott, enjoy your stuff
I was wondering since you mainly commented on the post-match promo from Hogan, what did you think of the quality of the Bash at the Beach '96 main event? I'm thinking like ***1/2 but that probably is a little high.
Also, other than possibly HBK, do you think Gold Dust's current return is the only time a wrestler has returned and has been seemingly a better wrestler?
Thanks!
Yeah, I was too busy losing my mind at the time, but ***1/4 or so sounds about right to me.
As for the second one, Randy Savage was certainly a SMARTER worker when he returned in 1991, although that was not exactly a lengthy absence. I'd say Brock Lesnar is 100% more effective as a worker in his limited role. Goldust is certainly one of the most unique cases, in that he's managed to totally reinvent himself in the role that we keep wishing all the old guys would take on -- the mentor using his old school training to build up his younger brother.
Goldust turned into Darth Maul so gradually, I hardly even noticed.
ReplyDeleteCurrent Goldust might be better than 1996 Goldust in the ring, but 1993-1994 Dustin Rhodes was an unbelievable worker. Do not sell him short.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's crazy how good Goldust is in his current role. Even back in 2003 after BookDust, I thought he looked finished.
ReplyDeleteIt's the I Quit or the Iron Man
ReplyDeleteI was *At* Summerslam when she sang the national anthem, and I still wouldn't be able to pick her out of a police lineup of two.
ReplyDeleteMadison Square Gardens for popping big when Steiner showed up there,. "GIMME A FUCKIN' MIC!"
ReplyDeleteI definitely think the Breaking Point match was their best match. It had a ton of creative spots and totally sold their characters to the max - Orton, the sociopath who would do anything to keep the title, and would enjoy hurting Cena in the process, and Cena, the guy who wouldn't give up, no matter the depths of the physical and mental torture.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing I liked most about that match was something I had never seen before. Orton got the ref to start asking Cena if he wanted to quit BEFORE he actually dealt damage. So, for example (not sure if this particular example happened in the match, it's just to give the jist) he would position Cena's head on the steps raise his foot above his head, and then get the ref to ask. All you have to do is say I quit, and you can spare yourself the pain that's coming. That to me was chilling, it seemed so much more menacing than saying 'say I quit because you can't take the pain you've already survived'.
Orton shouldn't have given up so quickly once Cena locked in the STFU, and absolutely there should have been blood just for the emotional impact and to illustrate just how much damage Orton was doing over the course of the match, but other than that... I still think it's one of the better matches I've seen from a storytelling perspective in a long, loooooooong time.
Henry was the first guy I thought of.
ReplyDeleteI mean, I remember that era pretty well and it certainly was reported that they hot shot the title to Randy too soon and to spite Brock since he was the youngest heavyweight champion at the time.
ReplyDeleteWas there a reason why 96 Goldust was so bad? He was close to the top of the card on the heel side for awhile but all of his matches were just so stall-y and so bad. At the time I didn't know that he actually had the potential to not suck.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Then again, my reaction to their matches is simply "I don't fucking care!"
ReplyDeleteHe was trying to work WWF style, which was slow and methodical.
ReplyDeleteHenry gets better every time he returns. I'm guessing he, genuinely, takes the craft seriously.
ReplyDeleteThere does seem to be some long-standing tension between Orton and Cena, as much as they claim to be friends.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, promos are always more believable and interesting when there's truth behind the words. And I honestly believe that Cena cares about being the face of the company, and cares about representing the WWE and all that stuff. That doesn't mean he still couldn't use a complete character overhaul, but I believe as far as the motivation in this feud, his actual feelings align with his character's feelings.
So yeah, it hit like a 'pipe bomb' because just like that CM Punk promo, you believed everything he was saying.
I don't believe that with Orton. I don't believe that he cares about being the biggest name in the WWE, or that he believes he's owed it, or any of it. Which is fine. But don't give that guy the gimmick where he has to convince all of us he's deeply invested in being that guy, and willing to sell out to make it happen. Because it just feels forced, and puts him in a position to fail. No better than hiring Steve Austin and putting him out there as the ring master.
Shawn Michaels has to be on this list. He did less when he came back, but he did it smarter.
ReplyDeleteLISTJACK!~
ReplyDeleteTop Ten WWE Animals:
10. Chloe
9. Pepper
8. Lucy
7. Ricky Steamboat's Unnamed Komodo Dragon
6. Lucifer
5. Kennel in a Cell Rottweilers
4. Frankie
3. The Mountie's Horse
2. Matilda
1. Damien
Why did you stop?
ReplyDeleteI'll tell you why, because it's a real pain in the ass to keep up with every single day...
How is DDPYoga? I've been thinking about it getting it myself; my poor back could probably use it.
ReplyDeleteBut when your routine drops all the way down to zero, there's nowhere for that number to go but up! And once you pick it up again, you'll see that you'll like it and pretty soon, YOU will start liking YOU.
ReplyDeleteBecause of ME! D-D-P! *tilts head and =D*
Wow, this is pretty much everything I've been thinking they should do (they you've put much more detail into it)..I think it either has to be Bryan vs. Punk or Bryan vs. Cena vs. Punk, but I've had trouble figuring out what to do with Orton. Old school Viper Orton vs. Lesnar in a street fight could be fun enough.
ReplyDeleteUmmn; "Kane".
ReplyDeleteIsaac Yankem, no. Fake Diesel, no. Some guys just ned a little time to work out what workas for them. See also "Austin, Steven"
I loved DDP Yoga, and it works, but I stopped because of the nature of the videos. There are about ten, all of which DDP guides you through slowly. Perfect for beginners, annoying as hell when you know what you're doing.
ReplyDeleteAfter a couple months, I got so bored with even the basic moves taking so long, not because they were supposed to be held for ages, just cos he was explaining them in minute detail. AGAIN.
He was too much into his gimmick. Same reason why Zombie-Taker was pretty bad in the ring during the early 90s.
ReplyDeleteI catch the show when my DVR manages (it gets switched around sometimes). It's not too bad, kind of old school-y. I'm glad I wasn't hallucinating in thinking it wasn't the same Colonel Parker. Lance Hoyt, I think, could actually be somebody, but god damn, that tramp stamp of his STILL distracts from his bad-ass persona. Boyd Bradford may be the weirdest manager in all of wrestling (both because he's a chortling 30's gangster and because he mostly manages Satanists and wrestling wizards). It's at least usually entertaining.
ReplyDeleteI'd say 3.25 also
ReplyDeleteWow anyone see sons of anarchy tonight???? Fucking crazy ending
ReplyDeleteUnser is the most annoying fucking character on the show. Wish clay would have just killed him seasons ago.
ReplyDelete"We, the people..." feel -
ReplyDeleteAgain, I'm not a fan of Cena, but one has to understand his role in 'this business'. WWE feels stung that after 'Mania 20, they doubled down on Eddie and Benoit, and boy, did that not work out in the long term. Cena is exactly the perfect bland, dependable,, clearly-better-than-average performer. It's just rare to see him use the bully pulpit he's has access to for ten years to actually make a point about 'this business'. I'm bored to tears by him, but... it's not his fault. He keeps throwing out these (i love shoot comments that arent meant to be) shoot comments and getting NOOOOO credit from the internet smarks for them...
They made a mistake by bringing in way too early. For the first, I dunno, 5 years or so he was WAY too green to be on a nationally televised wrestling show.
ReplyDeleteFrom a pure workrate POV, I agree. But I have to give it **** just because of the insane heat it had. Also, while BATB 96 might not have drawn that much (though I'm sure it was one of WCW's better shows, profit-wise), the events that took place because of this match drew an insane amount of money. Have to give it points for that too.
ReplyDeleteThe Hurricane one seriously pissed me off
ReplyDeleteI don't even remember half of these. Matilda was the British Bulldog, right? As in the actual bulldog?
ReplyDeleteI thought that the videos were for instructional purposes, and that you were supposed to do the routines on your own once you learned it?
ReplyDeleteOr are you always supposed to keep the TV remote within arms reach when you're doing the Wake Up routine?
"HHH later admitted on the ECW DVD that it was kind of a dick move on his part."
ReplyDeleteThat was Vince, not Triple H.
Stupid article.
Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2013.
ReplyDeleteOrton was involved.
Steve Austin from late 2000 to late 2001 was far better than he was in 1999.
ReplyDeleteBooker T was contemplating retirement at the time.
ReplyDeleteThe thing about that period was that apparently, Triple H should have lost the title and won it back every month. It was the nadir of Raw's quality for a long, long time, end of story.
If one of those isn't the sewer rat Bad News used to counter Damien, then you're doing it wrong.
ReplyDeleteAlso, no love for Lucifer or Revelations? All Jake's snakes were awesome.
Their Summerslam '07 match is my favourite, if only because I actually cared who won that one. Cena had been champion for nearly a year and Orton was still relatively fresh to the main event scene, so the match felt like it mattered. Plus the pop for the RKO in that one might be the biggest Randy has ever received.
ReplyDeleteJericho. His best run ever was probably 2008, but he always seems to better when he comes back than he was when he left.
ReplyDeleteBut… the Spirit Squad WERE jobbers. That was the whole point. They were goons who couldn't win anything without a massive numbers advantage. That one's ok by me (though sticking someone as talented as Ziggler with that gimmick is somewhat less ok by me).
ReplyDeleteBut he never became a top-flight Rock/Austin/Cena (or, considering the character, Race/Flair/HHH) level draw, which he was pretty close to doing before HHH came back and completely destroyed the character. He was a main even guy, but he wasn't a top level guy, if that makes any sense.
ReplyDeleteI doubt they will, but if they did go Evil DX vs. Indy Powers for Mania, the finish has to be Bryan making HHH tap, because then you get easy setups for Backlash.
ReplyDeleteHBK vs. Bryan because Bryan didn't beat him.
HHH vs. Punk because HHH can insist that Punk didn't prove anything, blah blah.
And then after that you have tons of options, pending how many matches HBK and HHH feel like working. I'd personally go for having HBK win the initial match against Bryan (with or without chicanery) and having Punk beat Hunter to build to Punk vs. HBK for "Best in the World", which can then lead to either Punk/Bryan or HBK/Bryan 2 pending your presences… and then the other one immediately after.
What I'm saying is that I want to watch Punk/Bryan/HBK wrestle each other in various combinations for about six months, minimum.
Lucifer is #6.
ReplyDeleteSewer rat doesn't make it onto my highly subjective list!
Surely somebody has gone on da YouTubes and done just that?
ReplyDeleteHe beat Orton to set up the rematch for WrestleMania... until they realised that Orton was, uh, who he was.
ReplyDeleteThe next number is 5.
ReplyDeleteIt is the ages of Randy Orton's girlfriends.
He is.
ReplyDelete"You put Orton over Bryan!? What are you, INSANE!!?!?"
ReplyDeleteThe roster split brand extension, because without it, he wouldn't have been World Champion and so, the match maybe never would have happened. Same to his wins over RVD, Kane, Booker T and anyone else. ;)
ReplyDeleteWhat about the brand extension / roster split? It gave him literally Monday Night RAW and the World Title and he could send all of his main event competition to Smackdown (Rock, Taker, Angle, Lesnar) while he had a show for himself?!
ReplyDeleteJust joking, I am certainly not one to talk about grammar.
ReplyDeleteSure it didn't hurt Angle, but it DID hurt them, when they drove away all those viewers they gained with that lousy payoff. So HHH doing this WAS bad for business.
ReplyDeleteAnd:
ReplyDeleteJohnny Polo -> Raven,
Sparky Plugg -> Hardcore Holly,
Smoking Gunns/Rockabilly/Roadie -> New Age Outlaws.
Yes. Poor thing looked terrified every time it was on TV.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to picky back off of that by mentioning how good Benoit's first match was against Triple H. Triple H bumped and sold for him like he was a big time star. That match set Benoit up for the success he had later on. Of course this is all a moot point.
ReplyDeleteI actually agree with his logic, look at what losing the girl did for Zack Ryder.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I underrated Chloe...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wwe.com/inside/news/archive/010406torriechloe
He went overboard with all the suplexes and shit. If he could have toned it down a notch he may have had more time. As much as people knock the Invasion there was some damn fine wrestling going on.
ReplyDeleteLucifer dying after biting Macho Man is a pretty crazy story.
ReplyDeleteBreaking Point. That whole ppv was a pretty good show. I remember thinking the DX-Legacy match was fantastic too.
ReplyDeleteLucific was a python, not a cobra.
ReplyDeleteI thought Damien was the python and Lucifer was the cobra.
ReplyDeleteI had the same issues with my DVR. On Dish Network, it shows up as 2 half hour shows for some reason, and it seemed to always think the 2nd half hour was a replay or something so it just recorded the first. Problem solved by setting DVR to record All instead of just New episodes. I thought the same thing about Bradford...he has an odd stable for who he is. I like his guys though. Kincade (Kincaid?), the aforementioned wrestling Wizard and also the Jr. Heavyweight Champ, has good matches and I like the Hounds of Hell too.
ReplyDeleteLucifer was the replacement for Damien after Earthquake squashed him to death.
ReplyDeleteThe python came later after Jake's heel turn.
It seemed like an eternity for Benoit to win his first official world title, but the reality was that he won it at the 20th WrestleMania just four years after his debut, and for about a year of that time he was out with an injury.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I hated all of the dissection of WWF's politics at the time; "oh sure, The Rock goes over Benoit!" "of course HHH has to beat Jericho!" Well, it only makes sense for a company to protect its homegrown stars over a competitor's alumni, and besides, they tend to keep those guys around a little while until they have a breakthrough of some kind.
I'm rambling.
I'll start and stop with this: Foley was turned and was shown to be a puppet of Vince and was never the true "Face of the WWE."
ReplyDeleteOutside of summerslam 2004 and the wrestlemania where he fought hhh, I don't think I've ever ordered a ppv where Orton was in the main event. I've never seen any Orton/Cena ppv matches that I remember.
ReplyDeleteIn his book, Dynamite said that Nikolai Volkoff felt bad for the dog once and kept giving it water before their match. I think you can figure out what happened once they got the dog into the ring.
ReplyDeleteAnd, in general, they made Benoit look really good through that time period too (minus the two goofy "re-start the match" finishes). Rock and Triple H, in particular, made him look like a Grade-A bad ass even when they went over him.
ReplyDeleteYeah, pretty much this. They *had* to audible that, because Orton was fucking horrible at that point, and the endgame of it was him making Batista for life.
ReplyDeleteIs this the "DO YOU QUIT!?" "....no....." match? That match can goto hell, straight to hell
ReplyDelete"Makes it more fun to troll them even harder"
ReplyDeleteAnd now you understand Haitch's mindset.
The greatest comedy match of our time.
ReplyDeleteIt's cool.
ReplyDeleteCena and Orton have put on a few good - real good matches. For whatever reason though, they don't have that crazy good chemistry together.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point, completely forgot about that one.
ReplyDeleteI would say that for what he's been paid is exactly why the brought him in way too early even though it was clear he was way too green to be on a nationally televised wrestling show.
ReplyDeleteMark Henry definitely got much better after a return. For Rick Rude, I would say it's not so much that he got better in WCW as much as he was able to work with more skilled in-ring opponents that allowed him to better showcase his abilities.
ReplyDeleteNot to be a smark, but I thought the episode was all over the place. I've slowly soured on the show post-season two and at this point I feel like it's just ridiculous. I'm glad (name redacted) finally got it but I wish it also took (another name redacted) with it and I would have been pleased.
ReplyDeleteI just wish so many episodes weren't 75-90 minutes. I just don't think they ever have enough content to fill that much time. And two hours for the finale was a bit much with the Jax monologue and the video package.
This and the Iron Man match were both good. It was entertaining to me how,Orton tries to kill Cena with pyro.
ReplyDeleteTakers an interesting guy in this case...fucking awful for a 3-4 run stretch, really thought he was washed up for good. Now putting out 4 star matches in his sleep at WM. Yea, its easier to put out great matches when you wrestle once a year and work with great people but if you told me 10 years ago taker would still be kicking ass, I wouldnt have believed you
ReplyDeleteMizs dad number 1.
ReplyDeleteGood choice, what are your thoughts on his recent HHH matches though, since people either love or hate them.
ReplyDeleteWin
ReplyDeleteMan, really really like the 27 match although it was a bit plodding at times. LOVED the 28 match, partially for the role Shawn played in it.
ReplyDeleteThis got me thinking, finishing up a 12 hour overnight so I use that term lightly, but whats the best return match ever? GOTTA be Brocks return match vs Cena right?
ReplyDeleteNot quite. I'd go with 3.14159.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I enjoyed both of them, but I can see why people hated them as well. As people on this site said back in 2011, "When 2 men are on the ground and I go to the restroom for 5 minutes, come back and they are still on the ground, that's a problem."
ReplyDeleteBrock credibility was somewhat tarnished by Cena winning but aside from that and the fact that the ref's had to stop the match several times for blood because in the words of Cole it "had to be done", yeah it was pretty good.
ReplyDeleteI never really had a problem with this match, but the Hardy one and the Miz/ Cena one kind of ruined the strip for me.
ReplyDeleteI agree. There were times when it got a little plodding, was such a fan of the story, brawling, and near finishes in both the matches tho. They had to add hbk jn the 2nd one I think bc there wasnt anything new taker/hhh could do based on their limitations.
ReplyDeleteI never know if I overrate it but im such such a fan of that match.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but that SCM got a big pop.
ReplyDeleteNo, it was a good match, just the politics of today's WWE hurt it a little bit.
ReplyDeleteI go back and forth on the outcome. I can see why they put Cena over but I personally, along with most fans, wanted Brock to go over.
ReplyDeletethe aftermath stuff was so weird, Cena cutting a "im going away promo" and never actually going away, and Brock apparently doing the worked shoot stuff in the locker room
BANG!
ReplyDeleteThat's true, I just consider the damage not as bad as say Booker,or Orton. It took Orton a long time to rebuild the character.
ReplyDeleteNot to start another argument but HHH has never done anything self serving or out of spite in his life? Scott put out a top ten list of things just today. It was a valid question
ReplyDeleteWhy do people feel the need not to spoil a TV show that has already aired?
ReplyDeleteSo they could beat HBK when it's 5 on 1, but they can't beat him when it's 5 on 2 when that second person is HHH.
ReplyDeleteI get it now.
Yeah. Several wrestlers have said that.
ReplyDeleteWow. That was Mick Foley like.
ReplyDeleteI like it, it's definitely good for flexibility, but as Zanatude says it does get dull. If I could edit videos I'd do it to get rid of some of the fluff.
ReplyDeleteBacklund! His 94 run was definitely a better all-around performance as he was still a great technician but was a million times better talking and working the crowd.
ReplyDeleteAre we sure goldust is really a significantly better worker this time around and that we are not just getting sucked up in the feel good nostalgia trip? Has he been in any good 1 on 1s since his return? Been in some great tags tho
ReplyDeleteYeah, I remember the London/Kendrick thing coming off as such an unnecessary dick move, considering that HHH was a top face at the time and L/K were pretty over, AND were year-long tag champs. Sure, they were kind of pains in the ass backstage but of course HHH had to be the one to make them look bad. Not to mention that Randy Orton was still being a pain in the ass backstage then too, and was getting pushed to the moon. Remember, even the best tag teams are huge jobbers compared to the almighty HHH.
ReplyDeleteHe is moving waaaaay better than his initial Goldust run (as groundbreaking as that was) where he had a handful of quality memorable matches (vs Piper, vs Vader, some multi man tags). His second go around with BookDust was awesome and he was moving better and wrestling more like The Natural. Then in his last 2 returns he has been doing much better. Id say hes in the best shape hes been in since being in WCW.
ReplyDeleteBy Scott's standards this article was very poor.
ReplyDeleteBecause not everyone watches everything live/immediately. Sometimes my DVR gets backed up to the point where I may not watch a show that originally aired on Sunday until Wednesday.
ReplyDeleteAnd he kicked Barrett in the junk for no reason other than being a dick. As a face.
ReplyDeleteI guess it is nice to be considerate... I just find the people that get mad that you spoil a show that happened days ago to be kind of irritating... like people aren't supposed to talk about something for a week because they haven't gotten around to watching it? If you were really that interested you would have already made the effort to see it. I have never watched one episode of Walking Dead but I purposely found out who died and went on Facebook/Twitter and posted that... I already forgot his name... died, just so lazy people could bitch me out for spoiling something that already happened... that and Walking Dead fans are annoying.
ReplyDeleteDustin Rhodes:
ReplyDeleteEarly years: Good, solid worked (specifically in tag matches)
Early Golddust years: Decent but the gimmick hid most of the flaws.
Seven: Meh
Bookerdust: Decent worker with a good storyline.
Black Reign days: Meh.
Now: Good worker with a good storyline backing him.
She(?)'s kinda cute, yes.
ReplyDeleteRicky Steamboat. I don't think anyone expected that type of quality out of him at this time in his life.
ReplyDeleteYeaaa, thats a good one. Forgot about his return stuff. Just awesome
ReplyDeleteWhether it was laziness, drugs, or the gimmick taking over (or a combination of the above) - Golddust's initial run as that character may have been fascinating from a character perspective and you could make arguments for it being ground-breaking, but the matches themselves were pretty bad. The character and gimmick just took over.
ReplyDeleteHe was a perfectly good worker as 'the Natural', but it was at a not-so-great period for WCW and there wasn't much very memorable. I think at the time some people unfairly viewed him as another Erik Watts or Greg Gagne, but he was a lot better than either.
I couldn't agree more. I have a few friends that dvr everything, and they avoid online recaps, etc., im cool with that...doesnt effect me. One gets pissed tho if we talk about the show like 3 days later. Seriously? Fuck you buddy
ReplyDeleteI give 'Taker a lot of credit for changing his style to match the times. Not a lot of guys in his position would have done that.
ReplyDeleteThat's some good perspective there. It actually made me laugh. I was trying to put Boyd Bradford into words, and that was pretty good. Boyd Bradford's character might fit better in CHIKARA.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Most guys in a guaranteed top spot like that wouldnt have bothered trying to improve or trying to freshen their style up
ReplyDeleteWith me it always comes down to Cena SHOULD have left the ring on a stretcher to put Brock over. Winning or losing was secondary.
ReplyDeleteThe aftermath stuff pissed me off.
Im with you. I wanted Brock to go over but can see why they had Cena win. But yea, WTF was the shit afterward?. Have Cena leave on a stretcher, sell Brock as a monster and go from there. Just emulate the taker stretcher job from wm 27
ReplyDeleteYep. He could have given that same goofy speech from the hospital or VIA satellite from home afterwards.
ReplyDeleteThen all the worked shoot stuff was leaked/reported about Brock being angry about Cenas speech and threatening to walk out. They must have had a bigger long term angle planned but dropped it for whatever reason.
ReplyDeleteHe's dropped a lot of weight and he says that he's clean and sober. I am happy from him. Now if Jake the Snake can just follow suit.
ReplyDeleteHe was away for 15 years, was in his 50's and in 3 matches was in the top 10 workers in the company.
ReplyDeleteQuestion...Scott said hhh admitted it was a dick move beating taz for no reason on a d dvd. Did they explain what the rationale was on the dvd for ghat match?
ReplyDeleteIt may not have been his decision but two examples of HHH being positioned higher than anyone else:
ReplyDelete1) Gets drafted to Smackdown in 2004, gets traded back for Booker T and The Dudleys, in a "fair trade".
2) Gets plenty of verbal fellatio in 2002, choosing between Bischoff and Stephanie for what show to appear on, before turning on HBK on Raw.
Yeah, and Kevin Nash mentioned it in the 1995 timeline as well.
ReplyDeleteI like the endings to all of their matches.
ReplyDeleteYou know, when the match is over? And they come to a stop?
I love that.
They've had two world titles for what, ten years now? Unifying them should be the biggest thing happening in wrestling, meaning it should take place as the main event of WM. This feels like any other PPV main event.
ReplyDeleteThe build hasn't lived up to the hype? Isn't the build the hype?
ReplyDeleteI mean, really, did he even have a PPV match that year lower than three stars?
ReplyDeleteRick Martel in WCW? His work seemed much better there than it had when he was the Model. Shame that he wound up getting hurt and hanging it up for good.
ReplyDeleteThat was because Orton was terrible.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite thing about HHH isn't directly related to HHH. Any time you see a WCW or nWo documentary where they actually discuss the politics of the time, someone usually brings up the fact that you cannot have talent calling the shots, or have active wrestlers booking shows.
ReplyDeleteBut that's only for WCW. It's fine when HHH does it.
Stretching that to it's logical conclusion: When Jericho returns for his last match, will it then be the greatest match of all time?
ReplyDeleteThe Miz/Cena one was brutally bad.
ReplyDeleteDDP Yoga baby. Though seriously...Like...what is it about DDP Yoga that seems to be responsible for so many miracles. Goldust an amazing worker, everyone's off of drugs, apparently Mick Foley can move around again.
ReplyDeleteIs it just that yoga is good for you but none of the wrestlers want to put up with the wishy washy shakra nonsense? Or something else? Because it seems to work wonders for EVERYONE who is practicing it.
Mr. Backlund was such a wasted opportunity. They really could have pushed that for a while longer.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's the actual yoga at all. People doing DDP yoga is just a sign that shows they're ready to start taking care of themselves amd are motivated again. It's not a magic cure for anything, just an activity that shows they've changed in other aspects of their life. IMO
ReplyDeleteWhat do you guys think of the look of their Heavyweight Title? I like it b/c it is a giant belt and reminds me of the North American title they used in Mid-South.
ReplyDeleteBut what about Foley? Foley never drank or did drugs. I'm wondering why this type of yoga is appealing.
ReplyDeleteHHH didn't say it, Vince did. And all Vince said was something along the lines that it hurt ECW or something similar. They didn't give an explanation.
ReplyDeleteBecause it's a power yoga that incorporates strength training as opposed to just flexibility training. Most guys are apprehensive about the whole yoga thing because it seems "feminine," but anyone who does it for any extended period of time will see benefits, just as anyone who does any kind of physical activity for an extended period will see benefits. The difference with yoga is that helps to correct things like poor posture and tight muscles as opposed to "getting swoll."
ReplyDeleteBeing for guys and 'created' by one of their friends probably has a lot to do with it.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of how much clout X-Pac did or didn't have, one of Jericho's first matches (if not his first match) was against X-Pac and it didn't go well (I think Jericho admitted it in his book). X-Pac was considered one of the best workers on the roster, so right or wrong Jericho got blamed for the match not being very good.
ReplyDeleteList fails without George Steele.
ReplyDeleteSlow burn with Stephanie booking HHH in shitty situations for a couple months (No Mercy til Armageddon?). HHH nearly goes the distance in the Rumble match, but Steph & Kurt fuck him over for the elimination. I don't think it's that long, if they do a slow progression with HHH getting increasingly screwed over by his wife.
ReplyDeleteI'd say he was just ready to lose weight and it had the endorsement of others, so he chose it. There's no magic secret to weight loss so it's probably just the mechanism he chose to lose weight.
ReplyDeleteIf it's not Brock, it's Shawn.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't gradual at all!
ReplyDelete...yes, yes. Simpsons and the future and Fox news.
Women dig those angles because it's soap opera nonsense. Dudes would get behind HHH because his old lady left him for the collegiate jock douchebag. HHH gets jerked around politically, getting a taste of his own medicine, but would get face reactions because dudes would empathize with wanting to see him beat Angle's ass and leave Steph broken. HHH wouldn't have to change his character in the least, just be the uber-heel who is getting jerked around by another heel. The "Cerebral Assassin" trying to use his political savy and heel alliances to outmaneuver his corporate wife
ReplyDeleteBut beating him at Unforgiven? A month after his title win?
ReplyDeleteUntil he returns again, yes.
ReplyDeleteEven better.
ReplyDeleteReread what I said. I said "match" not "run". If i were you I'd call you "really stupid" but I wont.
ReplyDeleteHere's another good one. Martel was looking great during his comeback, though I'd attribute part of that to the fact that he was working as a face. He was always a guy who struck me as a more natural face than heel, since he relied too much on heel crutches like stalling and cheapshots when he was 'the Model.'
ReplyDeleteI think what the OP was saying was that the general IDEA of a Title Unification should be huge deal, taking place on a major PPV with tons of build/hype behind it, but that the company has basically hot-shot'ed it in such a way that it comes across like a throw-away main-event at a throw-away PPV.
ReplyDeleteGood idea, poor execution.
For whatever crazy reason, Cena/Miz seem to have good chemistry on free TV, but poor chemistry on PPV.
ReplyDeleteOn a semi-related note, the Cena/Miz/Morrison match the month before was great.
Gotta disagree on the "Submissions Count Anywhere" DX/Legacy match - that thing was AWFUL.
ReplyDeleteSad, since their match the month before ("Summerslam") was fantastic.
Technically, Orton wasn't involved until after the match.
ReplyDeleteThanks. Was curious if they had some Nash type logic to the while thing.
ReplyDeleteGlad to see the "Anything-Goes Ironman" match getting some love. I didn't think it was a GREAT match by any means (I'd say about 3.5* or so), but I think a lot of people seriously short-change it just for the overall goofiness of Orton trying to kill Cena with the pyro.
ReplyDeleteGoofy, yeah, but I thought it was entertaining.
Christ, I WISH.
ReplyDeleteI don't recall ever being "wowed" by a Dustin match before this recent run. Now not only is he working his ass off, he's breaking things out we've never seen. A fucking hurricanrana, for fuck's sake?!?
ReplyDeleteYeah, he's better now.
Yeah, when I watched those matches I was just fucking in disbelief. Felt like I was back in high school watching him work.
ReplyDeleteReread what I said.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on the Brock Lesnar statement... and if the answer isn't Brock, it's Shawn.
Shawn's return match vs Triple H at SummerSlam '02 is the match I'm referring to.
Here's the thing; not everyone watches TV as it airs, or even a few days later. In my case, I prefer to watch once a season is done so that I can get it all done quickly, without waiting week to week. It's a result of not having cable or satellite for the last...oh, hell. 12 years or so? Long before Hulu.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, I don't flip out when someone drops a spoiler. If the post above had included the names, I would have been a bit annoyed, but I wouldn't have said anything. I appreciate that he did it, and I appreciate reviews that give spoiler alerts so I can skip them if I choose.
I understand that the way I watch TV programs means I will sometimes hear about what happened before I get a chance to watch.
A lousy copy of the home game! And a chance to join the Kiss my Ass club!
ReplyDeleteThe thing with Goldust is that he never seemed able to fully blend his in-ring work with his character work - as regular old "Dustin Rhodes", he was a decent worker, but had no real charisma. As "Goldust" (or "Black Rain" *shudder*), he generally got so wrapped-up in the gimmick that his in-ring work went to shit.
ReplyDeleteIt's only in the last few years, basically from his ECW run on, that he has melded the two. (Although, I think that also has to do with toning down his gimmick from a creepy pervert that distracts his opponents with mind-games to just being a guy that's kind of weird.)
Whatever it is, he certainly has his working boots on.
Interesting, I had never heard that Backlund proactively WANTED to put Diesel over.
ReplyDeleteKinda weird, considering that one would think that he'd have the same problem putting Diesel over as he had putting Hogan over (that Backlund didn't want to put over a non-technician). Maybe Hogan's popularity and subsequent benefits to the entire company proved that Backlund was wrong on that one?
Definitely, Brock/Cena was unlike pretty much ANYTHING else we'd ever seen in the company. Very realistic-looking brawl.
ReplyDeleteDude, that belt is huge. I have no problems with it. It sure makes it seem important, which any top title in any company should be doing.
ReplyDeleteYeah, nobody looks at it and thinks it's a Cruiserweight belt.
ReplyDeleteYes. Because HBK is smaller than him.
ReplyDeleteDude, I still have four episodes of the Walking Dead to watch on my DVR, but I figured out what was happening almost immediately from reading interviews with the cast, so you won't hear me getting pissy.
ReplyDeleteIt's been weeks since the mid-season finale. If I haven't watched it yet, I don't think I have any right to complain.
Didn't Kenny pin Flair clean once? I know that was the phase where Flair was jobbing to anyone who would float him a loan, but still...
ReplyDeleteOrton dropped the ball on that one, not Trple H. I still think HHH set Orton up to fail, but sometimes you got to work your way out of that. Batista was able to. Orton was only good with the RNN reports to begin with.
ReplyDeleteRD still likes the old stuff. As do I. Plus RD has people working for him tht still care.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it was like "I'm gonna take some time off."
ReplyDelete2 weeks later...in a main event PPV match with big Johnny.
So.. what constitutes a "return"? Is it returning from retirement or an injury?
ReplyDeleteMy money would be on Ric Flair's return in 1976. He came back from a career ending back injury in a frigging plane crash. He changed his wrestling style, called himself the Nature Boy and became arguably the greatest wrestler on the planet.
Plus crazy heel R-Truth was born because of it.
ReplyDeleteOz -> Diesel
ReplyDeleteRoc -> Warrior
I gotta do it man, that book was one of the reasons I found this site.
ReplyDeleteI think he grasped that, since he talked about people going off script and/or breaking character.
ReplyDeleteI meant that when most people are off, when they come back they come back better wrestlers. Henry comes back a better performer, flat-out. Like I have to believe he's taking acting classes, because the dude is constantly getting better at promos and mannerisms.
ReplyDeleteI used it in different context. By hype, I mean people's expectations. This could have been built up to be one of the biggest matches in WWE history. In actualality, the build has been typical main event build for a B-PPV
ReplyDeleteWait, Goldust did a hurricanrana? When?!
ReplyDeleteYeah, I recall Fully Loaded 2000 in particular making Benoit look every bit Rock's equal, even in defeat. I really wished that feud would have continued, along with HHH-Y2J, but that wasn't in the cards for SummerSlam unfortunately
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF72x4avlpg
ReplyDeleteYeah, the last one is interesting to me. If they had spent all of 2011 continuing Mark Henry's monster streak, he might have been a compelling opponent for WM28. Even though they already met at a previous WM (22 was it?). Sheamus as an ass-kicking heel might have worked too as a Taker opponent
ReplyDeleteYeah, that one does not bother me in the least. They were complete jobbers and a re-united DX destroying them has never popped into my head as a "dick move" at all
ReplyDeleteIt's weird too, because didn't Jericho and X-Pac (Syxx) work together plenty of times before? Weird that Waltman would think he wasn't any good
ReplyDeleteso that makes Goldust, Kane, and John Cena the Unholy Trinity of Unlikely Hurricanrana Users. I thought it was cool when Kane did it but I'm glad he never did it regularly because a) he's tall so it makes for an odd visual and b) he's tall and he hit his head on the mat when doing it to Albert.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing it was a different time, Backlund knew he wasn't as essential to the company as he thought he was last time, and he knew the direction of the WWF had changed since the last time he was champion, although I'm not sure why Diesel specifically.
ReplyDeleteYeah...Kane really should avoid that. But, you'll notice that Dustin and Cena both kind of go sideways instead of straight down, presumably to avoid the head bump.
ReplyDeleteNo not at all. I forget the exact quote, but it was along the lines of Vince saying that he had been a supporter of ECW and had helped Paul before, but having HHH beat Taz didn't do that. Honestly, it was just a few sentences. I probably spent more time describing what he said than he actually did saying it.
ReplyDeleteThanks. See I didn't want to sound dumb by calling you "really stupid" after debating a completely subjective point like you did.
ReplyDeleteCarry on