Disc 2 will be posted tomorrow.
The length of the first disc was an hour and forty-five minutes
JANUARY
Nash is
asked about Jim Ross being named the Executive Producer of RAW and to help out
with the storylines. Nash brings up that Ross broke into the business as a
referee and that Ross became a fan of his by having him on his radio show when
he was in WCW. Ross realized that Nash was funny, Nash saw him as an ally and
it helped him out. Sean asks Nash if Ross was a creative guy. Nash says that he
doesn’t know but he did know what worked and what did not. He then says that
when he became booker himself, no matter how good of an idea you have, if two
guys botch it completely and do not do their jobs, you lose money and get
labeled as a bad booker.
Sean brings
up Bob Backlund. Nash puts over his strength and recalls a story during a match
against him in Sacramento in which Backlund called for Nash to perform a sunset
flip. Nash said that he went along with it as Backlund was the heel. When the
match ended and they went backstage, The Undertaker jokingly told Nash that if
he ever saw him do that move ever again, he would put the boots to him in the
middle of the match. Taker said it looked ridiculous as he was way too tall for
the move. Nash is asked about guys calling the match. He says there are guys
like, Steve Regal, who he calls a great hand, but would want to grapple. Nash
said that watching him work that style is like watching paint dry and that he
needs a guy who can move around him. Nash says that Bret Hart could work both
of those styles.
Next, they
are asked about William Shatner hosting the January 9th edition
of RAW. Nash says that he and Scott Hall took a picture with him. Nash says
that Shatner caught on after a couple of scotches.
Mantaur
debuts on the January 16th edition of RAW. Nash says that he
was a fan of a Moose character in the Sheik’s territory and saw where the
gimmick was coming from. Nash then tells a story that took place during a dark
match when Mantaur took off his mask, Hall slapped him as hard as he could.
Kama debuted
on the January 28th edition of Superstars. Nash is asked if the
Kama character was a result of UFC starting out. Nash said that it was not and
a creation of Kama himself, who worked as a bouncer at a strip club in Vegas,
where a lot of UFC fighters hung out.
He is asked
about Matt & Jeff Hardy as enhancement talent. Nash said that they used to
call Jeff “Vanilla Ice" but that Scott Hall saw something in them and
would give them a little bit of offense, which would drive Vince McMahon crazy.
At the Royal
Rumble, Jeff Jarrett defeated Razor Ramon for the Intercontinental Title. Nash
recalls a story that Scott Hall told him about him breaking into the business,
no one wanted to help him out because he was a big, good looking guy and they
were afraid that he would take his spot. Hall wrestled in the AWA and had a
match against Larry Zbyszko. During the day, Larry blew off Hall but during
their match, Larry went ten minutes with him, because he saw something special
in him. Hall told Nash that he never would forget that and wanted to give that
chance to someone else. Nash calls Larry a class act.
Nash calls
his match at the Royal Rumble with Bret Hart as his first match of any
importance. He says that going into this match, they had been on the road for
22 straight days. He remembers walking past Lawrence Taylor at 4am at the “Doll
House,” and Taylor was surprised that they hung out that late when they had to
work the next day. Nash then says that back then, they always went into a PPV
hungover, because if you went in feeling miserable, you could maintain focus
easier than if you came in happy.
Back to his
Rumble match, Nash talks about how three years prior he was almost out of the
business. He then says that he did not go over on his first PPV, comparing it
to a manager holding him to a 30 pitch count. He said that when he first got
the belt, Vince told him that he wanted him to keep the belt for three years,
stressing the fact that it was Vince who came up with this. He also said that
Shawn Michaels was lobbying for the belt at the time too and with the trial
going on and people getting off of steroids, he was clean the whole time. He
said that one night backstage, Lex Luger told Nash that they were going to give
him a big push and shortly after that, he got the Intercontinental Title.
Still on the
Royal Rumble show, Sean asks Nash when he heard about the angle between Bam Bam
Bigelow and Lawrence Taylor. Nash said that back then, the company was much
smaller and said when he came back for his last run, he compared the backstage
atmosphere to an Eagles concert, with tons of buses and guys running around. He
said that back in 1995, there were a few production trucks and guys driving
Chevy Lumina’s. He also said there was no downside guarantee back then and said
he recently looked at his first WWF contract, which said he was guaranteed ten
shots for $150 per appearance. He puts over how Lawrence could keep up with the
craziness of the wrestlers and that was how it worked.
He is asked
about the Blu Brothers debuting at the Royal Rumble, which Uncle Zebekiah
(Dutch Mantell) as their manager. Nash recalls meeting Dutch during his first
ever road trip in the business. In the car were Nash, Mantell, Sid, and the
Iron Sheik. Sean asks Nash to talk about this as Nash said that Sheik lit up a
joint as soon as they drove and would always stop and get Heinekens. Nash does
a funny impression of the Sheik. He said that they would go to the gym and
Sheik would have the Persian clubs going wearing a stocking hat, benching 130
lbs. He then looked over at Sid, who was doing an intense workout then at
Dutch, who was in the lobby reading the “USA Today” and at that moment, Nash
realized that these are the people in professional wrestling. Nash then talks
about how when you are starting out and green, you would always feel good after
the show having a few beers listening to the boys swap stories. Sean asks him
about the stories and Nash said that if he had to break into the business like
guys did in Calgary, he would have went home.
They now
discuss the Rumble match and if Shawn blew the ending. Nash said they showed
the replay and thinks that he might of. Sean asks him about Pamela Anderson,
who was the guest ring announcer. Nash said that she was nice and they did a
photo shoot in Malibu. He said that Tommy Lee was with her and that her dad was
a nice guy.
Sean brings
up a radio interview in which Nash said that he did steroids once in 1986 but
when he signed with the WWF, he knew that they were clean there, unlike when he
was in WCW. Sean asks him about this and Nash said that he was brainwashed at
the time and that it was bad. He said that there would be guys collecting urine
specimens at the Philadelphia Spectrum then when they worked in Hershey the
next day, they would have to produce another sample.
FEBRUARY
Eddie
Gilbert’s death is brought up, as he died on February 18th due
to a heart attack. Nash then uses this to bring up how he looked at pictures
with himself and several other wrestlers from years ago and he is the only one
who is alive. He then talks how he looks back on what he did back then and
doesn’t want to be remembered as a drug abuser when he passes. He says that his
dad passed away at 36 and he did not use any drugs at all. Nash himself says he
doesn’t expect to see 70 years old. He then talks some more about the lifestyle
and how you would have to fly from Boston to Anaheim, the longest flight in the
continental United States, and you better make sure you are ready when the bell
rings and have your gimmicks in your system before the landing gear goes down.
Nash said that you would be lucky to even get a cup of coffee in the arenas,
joking that you couldn’t get coffee in Madison Square Garden if you had a winning
lottery ticket. He said catering then, you had ham sandwiches and if you go
today, it is unbelievable how much that you have.
On the
February 20th edition of RAW, Sid returns as the bodyguard of
Shawn Michaels. Nash said that they had to lobby for Vince to bring in Sid due
to his stabbing of Arn Anderson. Nash then claims that they had a meeting with
Vince in the locker room and sold Vince on the idea of bringing in Sid. Nash
recalls how Vince once told Sid that he was going to give him Hogan’s spot as
the top face but Sid declined and wanted to be a heel instead and how Vince
soured on Sid from that situation but told Nash and the others they had to care
for him.
Sean asks
Nash about his involvement in the NBA All-Star Weekend. Nash said it was fun
but that there were no more limos left in Vegas to take him around. He then
blames Lisa Wolfe for that, then calls her a bitch and says “fuck you” to her
if she is watching. He then goes on how people from other entities have no idea
how wrestling works. Nash said that she had power and was third in charge and
they all tried to get her gone as soon as possible. He then brings up how Vince
got pissed at him for showing up on “Regis & Kathy Lee” wearing a suit,
instead of his gear and belt. He said they got her to quit after an appearance
at the NFL 50th anniversary, when she got Nash a cheap suit
that was three sizes to big and he refused to go out dressed like that, so they
had to bring in tailors to fix it up.
Nash talks
about Lex Luger. He says that they liked Lex the person but as a wrestler, he
was no good. He tells a story how backstage at a show, Lex
accidentally knocked over a bunch of equipment. Sean brings up and interview in
which Shawn Michaels knocked Lex for having crappy punches and that he could
only clothesline. Nash calls Shawn passionate and that he was not afraid to
make you look back if you screwed up.
Nash is
asked about Chief Jay Strongbow. He said that he helped him out and thought he
did good as an agent. Sean brings up how most people usually have bad things to
say about Strongbow. He then asks Nash if Strongbow was good as an agent and
Nash said that in his matches, he did shit, but the fans never sat on their
hands in his matches and ate everything up. Nash brings up how he once told
Lawler that he was happy to learn from him and Lawler said “fuck you” to him
and that he has been wrestling for 25 years and still learning, so he could
learn on his own. Nash then jokes about the match with him, saying he was sorry
for the “potato.”
Next, is the
WrestleMania press conference. Sean asks if the press was snarky to them and
Nash said yes then jokes how they will gush over the Masters Tournament for six
hours, stating they should be sponsored by Ambien.
MARCH
On March 12th,
Brian “Crush” Adams was arrested for possession of steroids and unregistered
guns. Sean goes back to the press and Nash said that the WWF was lucky that he
was a mid-carder at the time so it wasn’t that prevalent in the press. Nash
said he was a great guy and had a sense of humor similar to Bob Newhart. He
then talks about how they would go to the gym and said that no matter how many
bad addicition you have, you at least had one by going to the gym.
Sean brings
up an in-ring interview with Shawn Michaels conducted by Vince and how Shawn
said that he was “going over” at WrestleMania. Nash said the Kliq was trying to
push the envelope because at that time, every wrestler was based off of an
occupation and how that doesn't sell tickets. Nash brings up boxing and how
guys fighting against guys will always sell. He says that if Mayweather fights
Pacquiao, no matter how impressive of a card UFC could run against it, everyone
will buy the fight. Nash also brings up the angle in which Owen Hart knocked
out Shawn with a kick, saying that they went over it in the car the night
before and Nash said that he wanted to make it seem as real as possible and
suggested the announcers not say anything so the moment could sink in with the
fans.
Nash talks
about fans, stating that they will always have smarks but that they need to
appeal to other fans. Nash has fun with smarks, joking that he is a darling to
them before making fun of how they will say how a certain PPV was the worst
ever and they will never buy another one, until next month.
APRIL
At
WrestleMania XI, Diesel retained the belt against Shawn Michaels. He said that
for the first time in five years, his wife saw him wrestle. He said that Linda
McMahon wanted her there as Nash did not, because he didnt want his wife near
the "Pirate Ship." He also said that he knew Shawn was going to try
to blow him up. Sean asks Nash what they talk about before the match. Nash said
that back then, they only had an hour of TV on RAW and rarely was it a match of
any significance. Also, they would work with each other for a month at house
shows and when they wrestled at a major show, they knew what to do. He also
adds that he watched him from ringside as his bodyguard for several months. He
then said that Shawn was lobbying for the top spot but Nash joked how he was
the biggest guy at the airport and Vince still thinks it is a big man's sport.
After that, Nash brings up how Shawn took the worst bump off of a powerbomb in
the history of wrestling on purpose. Sean asks why and Nash said why not as
they were both "1099's" and had to protect their brands. He also adds
that if you cannot fuck with the guys you ride with, then who can you fuck
with? He also denies that there was an incident between Tommy Lee and
Shawn.
Nash is
asked to compare Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels. Nash said that Bret was born
into wrestling and bought into it as it was real, saying that he wrestled that
way and was genetically engineered to be a wrestler. He also brings up
how Shawn was suplexing is friends in a pool as a kid and even John Cena
made his own title Belt at age eight. Nash said he was different as he saw it
as a way to make money when he could no longer do his first love,
basketball.
Sean asks
Nash about the match between Bam Bam Bigelow and Lawrence Taylor. Nash said he
and Shawn should have been the main event at Mania, as it was the title match
and you didn't know what type of match they were going to have. Nash credits
Bam Bam for the match being a success and calls him a great worker, despite the
fact that he was "anti Kliq."
Nash then
tells a story about how he and Hall found out that Shawn got $60,000 for his
payoff at Survivor Series while they only got $45,000 despite doing most of the
work in the match. Nash then calls J.J. Dillon all pissed off so, according to
Nash, J.J. puts him on hold and tells Vince "They're fucking talking"
so Vince gets on as Nash does a funny impersonation of him and after their
conversation ended, Nash said that he immediately called his wife and told her
that a package containing $15,000 was arriving to the house and to put it in
the bank.
He also
tells a story of the Kliq meeting with Pat Patterson and Vince McMahon, after
they flew in when the Kliq voiced a lot of complaints, and they hashed it out
and finished by drinking beers at Chili's. He said that they told HHH to sit in
his room that night, as he was new and didn't want him to get major heat. When
asked if the meeting took care of their grievances, Nash said they did.
Nash tells a
story of when he knew he was done with the WWF. At the IYH show in Louisville,
Nash was supposed to beat Bret clean with the powerbomb, before the Undertaker interfered, but Bret refused. in
the locker room, Bret kept saying that it didn't make him look good so
the Undertaker, who Nash said was generally mild-mannered, got up and told Bret
"Motherfucker, it isn't always about you." After the match, Nash said
that he got in the shower then told Hall that he was calling Bischoff.
Next, is the
angle from the April 3rd edition of RAW when Sid ran out and powerbombed Shawn
three times, leaving him out for six weeks. Sean asks Nash if it was legit and
he said no and that Shawn "lost his smile" again at that point. He
calls him a teacher saying he worked nine months with the Summer off, because
business was slow.
Sean asks
Nash about the overseas tour and the flights. Nash said if you fell asleep on
the plane, you were fucked. He recalls a time when Savio Vega cut a little
piece of hair from both Shawn Michael and Scott Hall, who brought Savio into
the company. He asked if they flew first class. They said no and one time, he
flew sitting between Undertaker and Yokozuna. Nash said Yoko would have to take
up two seats. Nash then said they bused through most of Europe and would be
exhausted from that. One day in the locker room, Waltman brought in a full
bottle of Phenobarbitol and no one had a clue as to what they did but Nash saw
they had caffeine and came to the conclusion if they took 4-5 pills, they
should at least feel awake. When asked what they did, Nash said he had no idea
as there was so much stuff in his system.
Hunter
Hearst Helmsley debuted at the end of the month. Nash said that HHH was always
different, he wore slacks and dressed nice while they were wearing fanny packs
and gimmick t-shirts. When HHH worked his first match, Nash said that they all
watched on the monitor and were impressed, then went up to him and asked who he
rode with before saying that he could ride with them. Nash said that you could
immediately tell that he was money. He puts him over for being really
intelligent and for knowing the business. Sean asks him how did he fit in,
seeing as he did not party at all. Nash said they were relieved that someone
clean could drive and that HHH saw it as an opportunity to align himself with
powerful people.
MAY
The In Your
House PPV starts. Nash said they were branching out at the time, doing stuff on
MTV and Nickelodeon. He also puts over Shane McMahon for pushing it in a more
realistic direction instead of a cartoon.
He is asked
about Sid. Nash thinks that he is a better worker than him but that their
styles are too similar and the match was boring. He says there was no
excitement at all.
Nash hurt is
elbow in a double clothesline spot in a match against Kama. Nash said that he
got up in the middle of night and took a piss and put his arm up and in
tremendous pain. He put on the light and was black and blue all over and even
bleeding out. He then said that he decided to do some incline presses, like an
idiot the next day then went to see Dr. Andrews and was initially told he tore
his triceps and would be out for nine months but was back working in three
weeks. Nash said that he couldnt take time off as he was on top and wasnt going
to get paid at home. Nash recalls talking to Paul Orndorff in WCW, asking him
why he never took time off when he hurt his elbow and Orndorff said that he was
on top working with Hogan and that they were printing money so he didnt want to
miss out.
On May 18th,
WWE had a meeting at Titan Towers with all of the wrestlers in an attempt to
show them how impressive their facilities were. Nash said it turned into a
grievance meeting and recalls how Bam Bam stood up and yelled at Shawn for
traveling on the same bus and cars as Nash, the person he was wrestling , and
how he wasnt protecting the business. Shawn stood up and started to yell and
swear then Nash said that Hall stood up and told Bam Bam that the same cars
following the wrestlers have been traveling around, seeing the same matches for
the past two weeks and that they probably get it by now and getting into same
buses aren't going to stop them from buying tickets.
Final
Thoughts: Well, this
was excellent. Nash goes off topic a lot but is such an engaging story teller
that it doesn't seem to make a difference. Half of the disc was spent on
January and February too. A few of these stories have been told before, from
his other shoot interviews, but if you have not seen a Nash shoot, pick this up
by all means.
If the position that Steph has been promoted to existed before she got it, then it's a promotion. If not, they're getting her out of the way with a cushy, glorified PR job.
ReplyDeleteMick made a great post the other day...He said he was going back and skimming the Raw reviews for the shows leading up to WM X-7 and that they never really did much "Austin questioning himself and his abilities" on the X-7 build. So essentially that narrative was retroactively built in after the turn.
ReplyDelete"She will also be in charge of targeting marketing programs aimed at kids and mothers."
ReplyDeleteInteresting. I guess this means more Fruity Pebbles commercials for Cena.
While it doesn't make a whole lot of "common sense" sense, I think that, in the twisted mind of the Mr. McMahon character, Vince was just happy to finally have his biggest enemy as his subordinate. After so many years, Austin finally "fell in line", and the battle of wills was over, with Vince as the victor.
ReplyDeleteGranted, it's not like any of that was ever EXPLAINED, or even hinted at, but it's my way of kinda fan-wanking an answer. Kinda like the Austin heel-turn as a whole, where there was very little foreshadowing, and the hardcore fans basically retroactively came up with his motivations.
On a recent Austin podcast, Steve flat out admitted it was the wrong thing to do. I think he enjoyed wrestling as a heel as and wanted to experience that again but they never took into account that he would get right back over to the levels he was at pre-surgery. Wrestlemania X7 is the peak of his babyface character and as Scott put it he was tapping out like Hollywood Hogan the next night on Raw. The whole thing was turrible.
ReplyDeleteNo matter how hard you try to fight it, you eventually become a part of the system. I agree with this post 100%. On the other hand, what was a nonsensical turn was the Austin face turn on the Raw after Survivor Series.
ReplyDeleteNo matter what happens in WWE I have come to the realization that nothing will really change until another wrestling company comes into the picture.
ReplyDeleteH is just over seeing the soap opera losers, he's not actually writing the TV or booking the matches. Although it would rule if he came in there with an iron fist and shook shit up. Hard to imagine Triple H respects wrestling writers much given his old school background and long he has been in the business.
ReplyDeleteThat whole episode made no sense. In addition to Austin, Angle - who had JUST helped WWE win the war the night before - was now a heel again.
ReplyDeleteWeird, weird episode.
It's easy to day in hindsight, and like I said in the last thread I give them all the credit in the world for at least trying the turn at WM...I always thought the play was for Austin to win with Vinces help at 17 but to keep their relationship ambiguous. You can do the full fledged heel turn on Raw the next night or draw it out for awhile as "has Austin sold out to Vince?"
ReplyDeleteThis Business, please.
ReplyDeleteCool to read this since I got into the WWF product in March 1995. 1995 was a bad year for wrestling, but I remember it nostalgically because everything that happened was new to me.
ReplyDeleteI don't mean to defend the 'creative' side of things over the past year or so, but I also think Stephanie has been somewhat unfairly blamed for how bad things have been. Vince is still the top guy in charge of the booking/creative side of things. All ideas have to run through him, he sets the direction that the 'writers' go in. Changing Steph for HHH is just shuffling the deck chairs.
ReplyDeleteOn his DVD he said at the time he wanted to freshen up his character, because at the time you had guys like The Rock, HHH, and Kurt Angle rising to the top of the WWF during the 10 months he was gone and he felt like an artifact who was out of place, so he felt he needed to freshen up his character.
ReplyDeleteHowever, he added that if he could do it over again, he would've just called an audbile and gave Vince a stunner at WM17. He didn't realize he was just too over and loved by the fans to turn heel.
That is actually awesome. Get Vince's help, then stun him, and revert back to the 96 DTA heel. Rock-Austin was always going to be face-face no matter what Austin did until the Hollywood Rock turn.
ReplyDeleteIsn't this the role that HHH said she already had as part of the Grantland/Masked Man interview? She's coordinating brand across platforms.
ReplyDelete" He says there are guys
ReplyDeletelike, Steve Regal, who he calls a great hand, but would want to grapple. Nash
said that watching him work that style is like watching paint dry and that he
needs a guy who can move around him."
Actually, watching huge, slow moving guys lumbering around and throwing right hands is like watching paint dry. And they need guys who can move WAY more than grapplers do.
I also thought it was silly that Vince was totally consumed in his feud with Shane and Linda and the WCW buyout, yet still found the time to negotiate a side deal with Austin. Then come out and help him after he JUST got his ass kicked.
ReplyDeleteI was struck by that line too. I took it to mean she will teach mothers to slap their kids and shriek at them about whether or not they're going to cry.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see video of Nash doing a sunset flip. Backlund was probably messing with him; a guy with his years needed to keep it fresh.
ReplyDeleteI watched this awhile ago and my biggest take away was that I can see how Nash always collects political allies/power. Engaging, always has some Nash type rationale to explain the bad stuff away, and could sell ice to eskimos.
ReplyDeleteOn a microscopic level, I imagine watching paint dry would be fascinating.
ReplyDeleteChances of a new WWE cartoon? Cause if there's any chance, I'm in.
ReplyDeleteTo clarify, Nash said that watching himself grapple is like watching paint dry. He also said that he needs guys who can move around him
ReplyDeleteHooray, more Triple H centric storylines.
ReplyDeleteNever thought I'd hear Crush compared to Bob Newhart but there it is.
ReplyDeleteDiesel going over Bret at the February 1996 In Your House has to be just Nash making stuff up. Bret was the champion and was lined up for the Iron Man match at WM, so giving Diesel a clean win at that time wouldn't have made any sense. Nash does have a point, though, in noting that his own title reign was sandbagged from the start when he wasn't booked over Hart at the 1995 Rumble.
It depends what the original plan WWF had in mind if they made that booking decision before January because I remember reading from the dirtsheets at the time that Nash decided to go to WCW in late January. And considering how weak Bret Hart was booked during that run, it's not outside the realms of possibility that Vince may had promised Nash that he was going over.
ReplyDeleteLove how Vince promised Nash he'd be champion for 3 years. Bret also made the same claim that Vince promised him a long run in his book too. I wonder if Vince makes the same claims today or if Vince is aware that the world title doesn't mean much today.
ReplyDeleteI think the reason Vince was fine with aligning with Austin was because he now felt he could control Austin (or at least control him more than Rock) and Austin had stopped doing the stuff that made him a poor "face of the company" in the first place.
ReplyDeleteVince: "Dolph, I swear, your next World Title reign with be a whole week!"
ReplyDeleteAustin's motivation was siding with the devil. McMahon's motivation was "controlling" his greatest enemy.
ReplyDeleteIt's a pretty standard character arc. The part that didn't make sense was Triple H aligning with them.
I really want to know if that spot saw Backlund doing the heel "I'm losing my balance" bit too because having a guy as strong as Nash trying to get Backlund over in a sunset flip is a funny mental image.
ReplyDeleteManga. With lots of midgets and giants.
ReplyDeleteThat, or when the wrestlers they promote can't walk anymore.
ReplyDeleteI have been hearing some rumors of one.
ReplyDeleteYou hit it right on the head. The story arc was retroactively applied and the gaps filled in. There was no explanation like that given and the whole thing was the most forced cheap heat exercise ever
ReplyDeleteI think things will change when Vince retires. It seems every where I read its always him changing things up and then the staff scrambling to figure out what to do.
ReplyDelete"Now get out there and job, bleach boy."
ReplyDelete'Undertaker, who Nash said was generally mild-mannered, got up and told Bret
ReplyDelete"Motherfucker, it isn't always about you."'
i find this really amusing for some reason
DBry WISHES McMahon though that much of him.
ReplyDeleteNo it wasn't. Austin was a fighter, it wasn't out of character for him to use a chair. And a tease throw out of someone who is booked to win the Rumble happens all the time.
ReplyDeleteNWO Match: It was stupid booking then, its still stupid booking now. Again, I went back and read the Raw recaps, it was never played up as Austin "lost a step" by losing to HHH. Sorry, it just didn't happen.
One line does not foreshadowing make. Remember, DEBRA was a focal point of Rock/Austin for awhile. Just that WWE and fans rightly remove it because ROCK AND AUSTIN need nothing more than They Want To Fight To See Who is The Best.
So no, the turn was not subtlety spelled out. In fact, when Meltzer broke the heel-turn story the day of WM (or the night before) the reaction was "What the fuck!?" Not "OMG it all makes sense now!"
Kurt did get over and the milk truck incident was great, but he still wasn't loved enough/over enough to get people to not just cheer himself, but also boo Austin (in my opinion anyway).
ReplyDeleteI don't know. The Undertaker feud was incredibly flat and from a personal perspective, I was 13/14 during Austin's heel run and I recall a lot of my friends and I not really buying into Benoit and Jericho as top acts. Maybe if they focused on Austin + HHH vs. Jericho + Benoit from the beginning instead of Kane and Undertaker it would have been different, but I don't remember the Austin, Jericho and Benoit stuff really setting the world on fire (aside from the obviously great tag team title match). But like Scott mentioned, that might have suffered due to the InVasion angle getting put into full swing.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to go with both.
ReplyDeleteHoly shit that would have been amazing. Plus, DTA Austin would have been $$$ during the InVasion angle.
ReplyDeleteAh, gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.
ReplyDeleteSeems like something Nash would say, though.
Ah Kevin Nash...he and LaBar took 20 bucks from me.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't a total disaster if the character was extremely entertaining, which it was. But it was, objectively, mostly a disaster.
ReplyDeleteThe problem was tying it into the Invasion. They should've just left him as the mega-face going into the Invasion PPV when he fake-turned and stunned the entire Alliance the week before.
Rock not being around for months and subsequent injuries to Benoit and HHH also didn't help. If they were gonna go with Austin as a heel, they should've used that to seriously elevate Jericho and Benoit or turned HHH into the super mega face to oppose him (the face pop for Hunter the night after WMX7, before the reveal that he and Austin were united, was outrageous).
Of course, injuries and tie-ins to the Invasion were destined to doom all of that anyway, but I think a lot of great could've come from Austin as a heel.
In hindsight, I think it would've been better to do it a year later.
It's not an apples-to-apples comparison, because they aren't nearly as aggressive now and as much as it may suck for us, the conservative approach with that stuff is probably the right thing these days.
ReplyDeleteBayless is interpreting the story wrong. Bret balked at taking the power bomb before the interference as it would make him look weak.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. I would've postponed his turn until after Invasion was long over.
ReplyDeleteI've always wondered if the Invasion got heel Austin shoehorned into it just because both things were happening, or if that was a long-term (at least since before WM) plan.
The most practical thing to do, since the WM heel turn was happening and you can't call an in-ring audible on that, would have been to just keep him face after he fake-turned the week before Invasion.
See you seem to think Austin 2001 was the same as Austin 1998. Acknowledging his marriage to Debra instantaneously changed his character. DTA Austin was gone the second his friendship with JR and relationship with Debra were actively emphasised. That was the whole intended message of the turn, the SCSA everyone loved was gone.
ReplyDeletePlus theres a world of difference between the way Austin was attacking Rock in 2001 compared to 1997-99. Austin was clearly cheap shotting Rock 1 on 1 when previously Rock had a faction in front of him before. Again the point the match at WM17 was making was exactly this, Rocky had become the better man that Austin was previously.
An unusual topic on this blog, but not unwelcome.
ReplyDeleteEngland also have a very tough group - Italy first, then Uruguay.
If they can scrape two draws - then they'll have a chance as they should beat Costa Rica.
Knowing England, they'll somehow beat one of the first two and screw up against Costa Rica.
Except that it was not booked that way, promo'd that way, or wrestled that way. It just wasn't. Agree to disagree, but it wasn't. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteWhat? Seems an appropriate time to use it...
ReplyDeleteSo the WM17 main event isn't about how Austin is hyper aggressive against Rock, literally doing everything he can to put him away. Even busting out stuff from his Ringmaster arsenal in an attempt to walk away as Champion, but Rock keeps on kicking out and fighting back. Even when Vince walks out and starts actively assisting Austin, he can't get it done. Finally he just outright goes crazy with the chair on Rock and wins the match.
Or are we talking about two different matches?
Probably my favorite of the Timelines. When he gets into the Kliq/BSK in the second disc it's great.
ReplyDeleteSee above. Bayless is misinterpreting.
ReplyDeleteGreat, so the match was booked that way. The match was also booked to have call-backs to previous Rock/Austin matches along with Austin/Hart matches. Yes, the match was booked to show Austin couldn't beat the rock without turning him into jelly with a chair. That's not in dispute. But Austin was not booked as not being able to beat the Rock before that. Heck, watch the My Way promo, it doesn't tease a heel turn at all. And why? Because it was not foreshadowed.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, they could've gotten so much out of lone renegade Austin being the wild card, not knowing if he was going to join either side.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was pretty significant. I specifically remember calling his heel turn right then and there, and winning a bet because of it.
ReplyDeleteWeel they got ride of Bischoff & Hogan, came back to the Impact Zone and I have the feeling that they try to do the right thing.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of the evil kids, Shane, Steph, HHH pushing Vince out of his creation in 2000 while Austin was gone. Vince buys WCW so he has a new army backing him against his kids.
ReplyDeleteAh fuck, I thought I put that in the recap.
ReplyDeleteI think his wanting to call the audible was from a business perspective rather than a personal one. I think he loved doing that heel run (in all his podcasts I've listened to, I don't recall any negative feelings toward it), but fans just didn't want to boo him.
ReplyDeleteNash got over a year with the belt, that was the longest single reign of anyone between Hogan's first reign and Cena's third reign.
ReplyDeleteNo, it's like saying a company that's been making CDs for 20 years and records for 20 years before that might be able to make and advertise MP3s.
ReplyDeleteThe Rolling Stones aren't producers/behind the camera guys, WWE is. Can it go badly? Easily, but they're a wealthy company with some smart people in it.
Comparing Sinclair to WWE is like comparing Fatburger to MacDonald's.
ReplyDeleteI'm not underestimating the difficulty, I'm saying you've underestimated WWE, these aren't a bunch of undergrads trying to launch their video advice service. They've been in this business a while and are probably aware of the difficulties involved.
ReplyDeleteAlso, successful streaming services have happened, they aren't making something from scratch here.
WWE to politics is different than WWE to another video source.
ReplyDeleteTime for another fucking analogy. Toyota making a Prius Motorcycle is a good deal different than Toyota making a Prius Personal Computer.
I'm not your pal, friend.
ReplyDeleteWith all the old footage WWE owns, the WWE network should be the easiest network to put on the air and sustain.
ReplyDeleteHow old is the WWE website? Close to 15 years, right?
ReplyDeleteSlammy Threadjack:
ReplyDeleteThe Slammy nominees for MOTY are Taker/Punk, Rock/Cena, Brock/Triple H at Extreme Rules, and Rhodes/Shield at Battleground.
Eh... okay?
Same here, first show I ever saw was the 95 Rumble.
ReplyDeleteYeah I watched the shoot and Bret was mad cause the spot was essentially a "visual pinfall" (cage match style), and he had just had one a month before in the Taker match (Taker had him pinned but Nash interfered).
ReplyDeleteI can see both sides. Bret (the champion) was made to look pretty weak, but the Taker/Nash match was being built on the tit for tat interference. Nash cost Taker the title, Taker returned the favor.
Rhodes/Shield RAW or GTFO WWE.
ReplyDeleteNo Punk/Cena Raw?
ReplyDeleteFunny to me how many people seem excited to watch this fail. Ten dollars a month for access to their entire TV library? Sign me the fuck up. I hope this succeeds because it sounds like a service I'd love to have.
ReplyDelete2001 heel Austin is my favorite character ever. I wouldn't have changed it for anything.
ReplyDeleteI don't see anything wrong with that. Brock/HHH was a million times better than Brock/Punk [/please hire me Haitch Man!]
ReplyDeleteThey had others to fall back on then, like the Rock, Chris Jericho, and Triple H (who was going to turn and be the big babyface of the company before he tore his quad).
ReplyDeleteNow, not so much. Nobody else would be as good of a representative for the company as Cena. I see fans suggesting CM Punk, but he's too much of an anti-social dick in real life to be in that role.
All it would take is one cellphone video of Punk telling a little kid to "fuck off! you piece of shit!" when asked for an autograph at the airport or a restaurant, and it would be a P.R. disaster.
Daniel Bryan could be that guy if WWE presented him seriously as a main event star. But he isn't nearly as good at P.R. work as Cena, and his size holds him back.
I am also Canadian and that is incorrect, sir!
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's definitely the most glaring omission, along with Brock/Punk. Taker/Punk was really good but not a MOTYC, Rock/Cena sucked, don't think I saw Brock/HHH III and didn't see Rhodes/Shield, but heard great things about it. Could have seen it in person but passed.
ReplyDeleteRandy Orton's promo on Smackdown sucks and blows.
ReplyDeleteI don't know who Lisa Wolfe is, but I guarantee you she isn't watching.
ReplyDeleteCut him a break, he's only been in the business for 11 years!
ReplyDeleteThere's no way Cena/Rock should be a nominee, not when the original was five times greater.
ReplyDeleteActually, the Power Trip and later with Austin on his own made Jericho, Benoit and Angle even bigger as babyfaces vying for the WWF Title. In that respect, Austin's heel turn definitely worked.
ReplyDeletePetterson used to use that line to get guys into bed. Never failed.
ReplyDeleteHe was on the decline in his career, though. He only lasted just over a year after X7. He must have had a rough idea.
ReplyDeleteI think the philosophy behind the turn was that Austin knew his time was nearly up, relatively speaking, and that it would be more beneficial for business to put over a slew of babyfaces as a heel.
I dunno dude, maybe I don't need my stories force-fed to me.
ReplyDeleteInternet legend seems to dictate that Nash was given the WWF Championship beyond all reason and logic, mostly because of political connections and because Vince occasionally liked to do unfair things to fuck with Bret Hart's head....and then Nash took off for WCW, where he booked himself as the focus of the show for 5 years until the company went out of business.
ReplyDeleteBut he's not wrong about how his WWF run was handled. They made him the guy but didn't want to put him over an established face like Bret...he didn't get to headline his first Wrestlemania, and he was given terrible opponents.
Yeah, he said on his DVD that he loved the different direction of the heel character but acknowledged that it wasn't the best idea from a business standpoint. In particular he enjoyed all of the goofy shit with Kurt Angle.
ReplyDeleteBecause after years of refusing to co-operate with Vince, Austin finally caved? Vince WANTED to be aligned with Steve Austin, he just wanted Steve Austin to be HIS Steve Austin.
ReplyDeleteBut he's not wrong about how his WWF run was handled. They made him the guy but didn't want to put him over an established face like Bret...he didn't get to headline his first Wrestlemania, and he was given terrible opponents.
ReplyDeleteThis. Every bit of this.
It's like, let's blame Nash for 1995 sucking despite the fact that everything else in 1995 sucked around him.
D'oh, I saw Brock/Punk and Cena/Bryan live (from really shitty seats, but I still saw them) both those matches deserve something. Nine stars plus between the two of them (I preferred Punk Brock, but Cena v. Bryan was better "wrestled").
ReplyDeleteMaybe they're going for 1 match per dude?
Cena/Bryan to me is like Punk/Taker, about **** but not an all time classic or anything. Plus the fact that Bryan pinned Cena clean and is now back where he started (or even worse off) kind of sours me on it. On the other hand, Cena did a ****+ with one arm, so it gets points for that.
ReplyDeleteWasn't jobber at that show too?
I'm not your pal, buddy.
ReplyDeleteamen
ReplyDeleteI'm a believer that Cena / Bryan was ***** so this kayfabe list...mildly annoys me.
ReplyDeleteIf you watch Shawn / Diesel from Good Friends: Better Enemies (definitely a match that cracks my top ten, possibly even top five depending on my mood), yeah, Shawn is working like a maniac as usually, but honestly, Diesel is just as responsible.
ReplyDeleteDiesel brought the workrate in that match far more than any guy his size should have been. Plus his actions throughout the match (and even before, when he tosses his jacket at Vince) are GOLD. I mean, nailing a beauty jackknife, then grabbing the belt and trying to get the ref to strap it on? That is just heelness at its finest.
Lol did you go to that PWO show a couple years back? I'm in Cleveland too
ReplyDeleteI have a soft spot for 1995 WWF. I'll take 1995 over 2003.
ReplyDeleteThe hispanic dude who used to do the Statler and Waldorf bits was there. Jobber is from SD...so maybe?
ReplyDeleteEasy 4 stars for Cena/Bryan. I just don't think Bryan and Cena as a feud had enough oomph to be a five star match. Bryan to me still hasn't quite found his character and he certainly hadn't at SummerSlam.
I love Bryan as a worker, but he still seems to me an indy guy playing at being a WWE guy, not a true blue WWE guy that really fits into that world.
Isn't that basically his gimmick almost? I mean, that's why I like him, but for better or worse he'll still be an indy guy in my mind too. I see that as a good thing, but my indy bias is pretty obvious.
ReplyDeleteJobber is from SD, but he always talks about going to SS high as fuck, and I always figured that the two of you running into each other would be kind of funny. Also, you're from the LA area? For some reason I always thought you were from my part of the U.S.
Oh yeah, Wrestlution 4, my second wrestling show, first indy show, and my favorite wrestling experience ever. Full Circle 3 way was the motn, I was there supporting Matt Cross. Yeah if your talking about that show, yes I went there. Guessing you did too?
ReplyDeleteHeel Austin was hilarious. Plus you had all those fresh match ups of guys he didn't face before. It was dumb, but I throughly enjoyed it.
ReplyDeleteYep! Thought it was fun. They do a decent job as an Indy
ReplyDeleteSadly PWO/ Prime ended do to, what I believe, Fox not wanting it when they bought STO. However, I have a few of their DVD's and they still sell them around on their site and other sites.
ReplyDeleteI'm from the Bay Area, the greatest geographical region in the world, but I'm currently going to school in Long Beach. To be completely honest, from what I've seen and heard of upstate New York, it appears to be dreadfully dull. And at SummerSlam there was a shit-ton of people there and I was in the ass-end of the arena, so I did not recognize any BoDers.
ReplyDeleteHrm, I'll try to explain why I have a problem fully committing to Bryan's character. He has the indy outsider stuff, and he also has the WWE cartoony kid stuff (goat, beard, YES!) but the two aspects seem completely separate. He's cut some really compelling and real promos, but he can't find a way to combine that with the persona WWE has built for him.
I honestly believe that John Cena is a man that runs around in jean shorts and baseball hats while talking about being in an underdog. Bryan...you can see the jump between "I'm being goofy and playing a character WWE wants me to play" and "I fucking LOVE wrestling".
I got amped up for the Bryan/Cena match because of that awesome slap promo Daniel cut, but than you hear JBL call "A FLYING GOAT MAGGLE!" and you remember that Bryan is the ridiculous dude with the bad facial hair. And that's why I prefer Punk.
Diesel getting the title thread on RSPW back in the day. Original source people, original source.
ReplyDeletehttps://groups.google.com/forum/#!topicsearchin/rec.sport.pro-wrestling/kevin$20AND$20nash$20AND$20title$20AND$20before$3A1995$2F1$2F06%7Csort:date/rec.sport.pro-wrestling/ljUDk1BkKe4
I know what you mean about Bryan, but the booking is killing him too. And New York is... one of those things where if you have to ask you'll never understand, I guess.
ReplyDeleteThe problem was he was feuding with people where no one wanted to boo him. Undertaker, Jericho, Benoit, Angle, etc. The truth is Austin's heel character came at the wrong time from a business perspective. At that time, there were no true top faces at the level of Rock & Austin.
ReplyDeleteTHIS!
ReplyDelete....I need more than anything you could imagine." and really did ANY of us or the Rock imagine him going that far?
ReplyDelete"I need to beat you Rock, I need more than anything you could imagine."
ReplyDelete-seems like subtle foreshadowing to me.
It's not all Bryan's fault, I really like him a lot and I think he's one of those potentially transcendent talents. If they find a way to make him marketable without compromising the Bryan-ness of him they'll be printing money.
ReplyDeleteThe analogy isn't about comparing politics to a video source, its about spending boat loads of money on a failing enterprise, I would've thought someone of your knowledge could decipher that pretty easily....
ReplyDeleteFINALLY! The best shoot ever is reviewed. Good job Bayless, made for some goodreading while I recover in a hospital room from surgery.
ReplyDeleteIs streaming doomed? And I think the point is relevant because Vince's background is in media production, not politics. Moving from cable to streaming is much closer to WWE's portfolio than entering the political realm.
ReplyDeleteObviously failure is possible, but last time I checked, Roku and Netflix and Hulu are doing just fine, and HBGO is fucking awesome. Adding streaming services doesn't seem alien to their general purpose of getting people to watch wrestling so they'll buy T-Shirts and action figures.
I don't know why but it's just so wacky seeing fans smark it up back in the mid 90s.
ReplyDeleteIf the on demand content is vast, and includes what is being reported - take my wallet. Only if I can get it on Roku, however. I assume I will.
ReplyDeleteAppendectomy?
ReplyDeleteI like the me want tape thing
ReplyDeleteGot mu gallbladder removed
ReplyDeleteBorn in San Francisco. Moved with my family to vt as a kid, moved back to LA for college and then to San Diego. Lived here ever since. Won't be moving!
ReplyDeleteWhat an awful selection. IMO its 1. Cena/bryan 2.punk/Brock 3.punk/taker
ReplyDeleteYes indeed. Great show!
ReplyDeleteOh wow that's intense! Hope you heal up quickly so you can go home but in the meantime enjoy that morphine drip
ReplyDeleteAlso I was waaaaaaay high at that show.
ReplyDeleteThey actually just switched me to Oxys today. I was using the drip too much(it wasn't morphine) and it caused my entire body to be itchy and it gave me these really weird 2 minute long vivid dreams.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I was going to say. This.
ReplyDeleteHey, How are going on? Here has so alternative posting about good content. I like this article for the importance of it as I want to share you about fiverr. If you have a clear, satisfactory speech, it will be simple for you to make an sound for businesses. You can use your speech and offer the sound tracks over and over. You can also make some
ReplyDeletemusical items and offer them to your customers. You can use your recommendations and drive them to www.fiverr.com and make reasonable residual earnings without promoting your top great quality sound computer file with copyrights.