Hey Scott,
I'm sure you've gotten this a bunch already, but just in case you haven't, today's the 15 Year Anniversary of the Fingerpoke of Doom. I re-watched it and think that the worst part wasn't the finger poke itself, but Goldberg running in and then eventually getting the nWo beatdown, thanks to the nonsensical Lex Luger heel turn, was actually what really destroyed any remaining goodwill with the fans.
I think if Goldberg had ran in, beat the crap out of everyone and then went on to beat Hogan for the title at SuperBrawl, the angle wouldn't be so negatively remembered. Instead, Goldberg did nothing of note and Hogan feuded with Flair for the 700th time and the rest is history.
Yeah, it was really piling on a lot of stuff that it didn’t need. Luger’s a heel again for no reason, Nash is a heel again and then babyface a few months later and then heel again, the nWo factions are reunited but not really…on and on. Not to mention how much it cheapened the first loss for Goldberg like that.
TBH, I don't even think this killed WCW. People were still raving about that night and for the most part, the attitude about the fingerpoke of doom was pretty positive.
ReplyDeleteSuperbrawl IX though... that's really when I stopped giving a shit.
The rationale was so. Give Goldberg a legit heel faction to run through while he chases the title. Whether this ever would have happened with the politics involved is a valid question but injuries killed the chase also. To say this killed wcw is just a lazy arguement
ReplyDeleteWas Sting injured during this? I'm trying to remember what was his storyline during all of this. I think he took a break after wrestling Bret Hart
ReplyDeleteYa know I remember watching this live. At the moment, I kinda dug it. Maybe it was the hot crowd, idk. I hated the Luger turn it made no sense, but there was randomness overload in WCW at this point anyway. I liked the idea of ONE NWO faction, hoping they would trim the fat to about 5-7 big players. If the reformation happened to let Goldberg run thru them all & chase Hogan, then that actually makes plenty of sense. But who knows, considering Goldberg's injury that night & the whole thing falling apart........
ReplyDeleteWas this night the Mankind "putting butts in the seats" spoiler via Schiavone? Which by the way.......was an AWESOME moment & insane pop. Loved it.
And of course it happened on the same night that Tony Schiavone gave away the results of that night's taped RAW, in which Mankind wins the WWF title (a week ago).
ReplyDeleteI think Tony's most egregious comment that night was not so much the "butts in seats" but the bragging in this clip of WCW being where the big boys play. With one finger poke, Hogan and Nash completely demolished any credibility Schiavone had.
Goldberg losing to Kevin Nash was far worse than any damage the Fingerpoke did. Goldberg should have been given a proper run and some real heels to defeat in main events.
ReplyDeleteIt didn't need to happen and was incredibly stupid. I don't think it was necessarily what "killed" WCW but it was their most prominent blunder is a series of atrocities.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it was Goldberg not getting his revenge on Nash and Hogan that was the problem, not the fingerpoke itself.
ReplyDeleteBut it gave us the undying legacy of the nWo B-Team!
ReplyDeleteThe B-Team was only good for FRUIT BOOTIES!
ReplyDelete"Not to mention how much it cheapened the first loss for Goldberg like that."
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree, I think a screw job ending was the right call. He had to job at some point, and you could still have Fat Tony say "He's 195-1, and the 1 is only because of Scott Hall and a tazer". Or whatever the hell that was supposed to be, it didn't look like any tazer/stun gun I ever saw.
It can never be overstated how charismatic Stevie Ray was.
ReplyDeleteIf they ever induct the entire NWO then Stevie Ray is a future HoF
ReplyDeleteAnd the weirdest thing was that Goldberg did get to fight Nash until way later. I think they fought in April.
ReplyDeleteAnd what no sense what so ever is that they capped off the Bam Bam/Goldberg feud for Superbrawl when the feud had lost its steamed and the potential for a money match had sailed.
That last paragraph basically describes WCW's business model.
ReplyDeleteCrazy that the nWo was divided into little subgenres of their own. That's how you knew the machine was just too big. Too bad they made that evident in their storylines as everyone from WCW eventually joined the nWo is some way, shape, or form.
ReplyDeleteFrom nWo to Wolfpack, nWo B Team, lWo, and oWn. It had gotten ridiculous.
Ideally in a perfect world, Goldberg would have plowed through the nWo, culminating in a title win over Hogan on PPV, maybe even Starrcade if they had the patience to build it to that. But in what reality would have Hogan agreed to job to Goldberg a second time? He would have been expecting to get his win back from him.
ReplyDeleteIn the 20 years I have watched wrestling, i have to say that Goldberg getting beat, and then the Finger Poke of Doom the next week combined was the worst thing to happen to wrestling. I don't care which part of the events was the worst. As a whole, the thing sucked and destroyed WCW.
ReplyDeleteDamn, 15 years ago (for Fingerpoke and Foley WWF Title win), that makes me feel old! I don't think this was that terrible, it wasn't great but it could still be saved. Have the Goldberg beatdown here. Then the next week on Nitro have an nWo member get beaten up. Go Goldberg/Luger at the next PPV, Goldberg/Nash at the next couple then build to Goldberg/Hogan with Goldberg beating him. The next PPV Goldberg puts up the title but if Hogan loses the nWo disbands. That's a solid six months of storyline, nice simple build.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that THIS killed wcw is the stupidest thing ever. It's a good synopsis of what was wrong with wcw but it had very little to do with WCW death imo
ReplyDeleteVery true, this one moment didn't kill WCW. Nitro was still doing good ratings. It was a myriad of problems and who knows, even if Nitro was doing solid ratings after the AOL merger they still may have sold WCW as it was looked at as lowbrow entertainment.
ReplyDeleteIt was certainly at least symbolic of WCW's death. The Fingerpoke of Doom was the equilivalent of ET for the Atari 2600. Neither one may have the destroyed the company all by themselves as many people claimed, but they were both symbols of huge problems. I was about 13 when all this went down, and the fingerpoke of doom after Goldberg's defeat made me go WWF all the way from then all. Didn't Mankind win his first championship on the fingerpoke of doom day? Its hard to imagine a worse night for a wrestling company than this.
ReplyDeleteYep
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8nbJikFTv8
Was this Luger turn before or after the whole thing with him and Buff Bagwell essentially being 3/4ths naked and making teenage men across the country uncomfortable / sexually confused with their posedowns?
ReplyDeleteOr I dreamt it and it never happened.
I found this video in the related section: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLH0b5UO2lg
ReplyDeletePaul Heyman giving his prediction on the impeding Monday Night War in 1995. While nobody could've called WCW catching lightning in a bottle with the nWo angle, everything that he mentions eventually killed them in the end.
If Nitro was still solid, and WCW wasn't an absolute money pit, Bischoff/Fusient would have been willing and able to move it to another channel, I bet.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that did, being a 10 year old kid, realizing that the company was just so bush leagued compared to WWF.
ReplyDeleteOnce they started using Team Madness as the biggest stable, it was apparent that they had ran out of ideas because they were basically their version of The Corporation.
Once I saw characters with names like Asya, Oklahoma, and even Juvi imitating The Rock; I stopped taking them seriously. They basically admitted to me that they were inferior to their competitor. Cringed all the time when TNA would insist on doing that.
'99 schiavone was already beyond dreadful to be sure, but in his defense, the foley bit and i'm sure the constant shilling of 'big boys' was fed to him by bischoff, so he was only doing his job, so to speak. foley even recounts in (i think) his 1st book how he got a sincere heartfelt apology from tony after the fact
ReplyDelete'Once they started using Team Madness as the biggest stable, it was
ReplyDeleteapparent that they had ran out of ideas because they were basically
their version of The Corporation.'
so what you're saying is... you didn't welcome the introduction of the future molly holly to the world?
BoD, get him!!!
Molly as Mona wasn't exactly setting the world on fire... my groin on the other hand...
ReplyDeleteMolly Holly didn't really flourish with her looks til she got in WWE anyways.
ReplyDeletePlease don't kill me.
they have meds for that
ReplyDeleteIf Tony and Bobby hadn't despised each other... the two of them outright going off on Bischoff after one fed line too many might have been a glorious night.
ReplyDeleteI respectfully disagree. The Invasion was the worst thing to happen to wrestling. Made me cry :'(
ReplyDeleteNot that kind of fire, you perv.
ReplyDeleteno, i meant the creams and stuff, for the friction to which you clearly were referring
ReplyDeleteAlso not that kind of fire, still a perv.
ReplyDeleteThat's possible, who knows. But it would have been a very different WCW without Turners deep pockets. It probably would have resembled early TNA with Hogan MAYBE coming along as a favor to Bisch.
ReplyDeletelet's not argue about who shamelessly and gratuitously brought up his groin 1st and just agree we're both pervs
ReplyDeleteI just go with the assumption everybody on the BOD are perverts.
ReplyDeletei'm a good christian boy
ReplyDeletethat means i want ONE. MORE. MATCH.
HEY, I only masterbated to Buff/Luger a handful of times!
ReplyDeletewas it your hand?
ReplyDelete'It was certainly at least symbolic of WCW's death. The Fingerpoke of Doom was the equilivalent of ET for the Atari 2600.'
ReplyDeleteironically, both involved massive burials
I was trying to wax poetic... might as well just wax my pole with the memories instead.
ReplyDelete(Next time, use loins, NOT groin.)
Winner.
ReplyDeleteIn my travels I've found that people who grew up as good Christian boys/girls have a wild streak in them.
ReplyDelete*mammaries
ReplyDeletestill love how tony lost it on the final nitro and shot on william regal
ReplyDeleteHave you ever sat on your hand until it fell asleep and the masterbated with it? That's called a stranger.
ReplyDeletedo the yaks get inducted to?
ReplyDeletei hope so
'That's called creepy and TMI.'
ReplyDeletehave you ever been in a turkish prison?
ReplyDeleteDon't act like you're not going to try that later tonight.
ReplyDeleteLoser, do you like gladiator movies?
ReplyDeletemeta-related: as i was waiting for you to finish typing, i saw our phantom downvoter hit us. it was amusing
ReplyDeletei think you're the greatest, but my dad says you don't work hard enough on defense. and he says that lots of times, you don't even run down court. and that you don't really try... except during the playoffs.
ReplyDeleteisn't it ironic?
ReplyDelete(doncha think?)
Yeah, who would down vote two men talking about masterbation on a wrestling blog?
ReplyDelete'Yeah, who would down vote two men talking about masterbation on a wrestling blog?'
ReplyDeletebenoit
...i'm not gonna explain that, but if you think hard enough about what lots of people here say about benoit, and then extrapolate, it will make sense.
1st person to get it (hey, that's also a wwf reference) gets... an upvote? yeah, that's it
I guess I never expected anything out of the Invasion. The post David Arquette WCW wasn't true WCW, and I just saw the whole thing as another WWF storyline. Infact, the biggest feuds during the period were Rock vs Jericho and Austin vs Angle, both feuds that would have been just as good outside of the Invasion backdrop.
ReplyDelete1. have potential money making feuds
ReplyDelete2. ????
3. as far from profit as you can get
Not really following, does it have something to do with autoerotic exfisciation? Is the talk around here Benoit was trying to rub one out as he was hanging from his lifting equipment? Because thank you for that image that was put in my head and then the knowledge I'm going to hell as I chuckled.
ReplyDeleteSounds like the formula they used for Rock/Cena
ReplyDeleteI'd say Heyman's prediction is pretty off here. Nitro was neck and neck with Raw since its debut and pulled ahead thanks to the nWo. WCW didn't really start to get 'massacred' until the spring/summer of '99. Inability/no desire to create new stars, inability to continuously create good angles/storylines, and the WWF having two of the best wrestlers ever, in their prime, is what killed WCW.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was cattle prod
ReplyDeleteIt sucks because they used to be fond of each other. Go back to the January 94 clash when Heenan debuted. Tony was almost giddy getting the brain with him. I'm sure politics and the fact that bobby liked to drink his vodka during briadcasts didn't help matters.
ReplyDeleteAhh that was so hilarious. Wish I could see it again
ReplyDeleteStephen Ray at least has an argument for HOF for being in Harlem Heat. This would really mean Horace Hogan in HOF.
ReplyDeletelol, no! no! no!
ReplyDeletebenoit = stevie richards = rtc, that's who would downvote
I'll take Goonie's explanation.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AbYF587T9g
ReplyDelete:)
as long as there's a truffle shuffle
ReplyDeletequit downvoting me...
ReplyDelete(runs to wiki)
...howard scott warshaw
disco inferno and louie spicolli, too!
ReplyDelete(watching his ecw stuff, i actually think spicolli was really underrated as a wrestler)
ReplyDeletequit downvoting me, chunk
ReplyDeleteHEY I AM NOT.... no you're right
ReplyDeletequit downvoting me, kareem
ReplyDeleteMeh she never made my fap bank
ReplyDelete'I AM NOT'
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/lld2mjz
they should have knows something was up when hogan was wrestling in slacks...
ReplyDeleteWow, that was a leap in logic. Yeah my explanation was better and my explanation is Benoit fapping away as he was hanging. Hope you feel good about yourself.
ReplyDeletePart that always kills me is that Goldberg is held by the cops at the police station before released so the tension of whether he can get back to the arena on time...and the cameras show the police stations is right across the street from the arena so apparently Goldberg was held up by a circus parade, a major funeral procession and the world's longest red light before he makes it across the street. In a taxi.
ReplyDeleteDid this one thing kill WCW? No, not on its own. But it sure as hell is the point when they started to go downhill fast. It wasn't just for the fans but the blow was for the rest of the workers as it was made clear right here that it was ALWAYS going to be Hogan, Nash, etc on the top so why should they bother trying to show their stuff off if they weren't going to get anywhere?
ReplyDeletePlus, it showcases once again how Bischoff honestly believed the NWO would last forever and was all the fans wanted to see so just kept shoving it down their throats over and over again. So the Fingerpoke didn't kill WCW but definitely one of the major blows that would show results just two years later.
'Hope you feel good about yourself'
ReplyDelete...says the guy who prior to that wrote
'my explanation is Benoit fapping away as he was hanging'
just sayin' (ducks from whoever wrote that they hate that phrase)
I know I am.
ReplyDeleteIf that happens then can we also get the Miller Lite Cat Fight Girls in the celebrity wing?
ReplyDeleteYou had to be the biggest WCW die hard fan for this to finally get you to switch over and watch Austin full time.
ReplyDeleteNot Vinny Mac, that's for sure!
ReplyDeleteMolly Holly?
Long way to go for that one, but I was going to make an RTC joke before I made the above Molly Holly gag.
ReplyDelete'I made... Molly Holly gag'
ReplyDeleteI switched to WWF following the Austin/Tyson confrontation and the beginnings of the Undertaker/Kane feud. I'm from NY so it's always been WWF around these parts except for '97 when WCW really started to gain traction. I was always a Hogan fan though so I watched Nitro over Raw in the beginning of the war to watch Hogan. But by the beginning of '98, aside from flipping to WCW to see Goldberg, I was pretty much done with them.
ReplyDeleteI've always understood it that the television was the dealbreaker for Fusient, though. WCW getting thrown off Turner television broke the deal off before there was a chance to shop around.
ReplyDeleteGood point. His major PPV defenses were against Hennig, DDP, and Nash. Not the best lineup to put out there.
ReplyDeleteI was a big fan at the time of the Monday Night Wars, if you were a wrestling fan in general basically you couldn't go wrong just flipping back & forth. So if on this night you listened to Schiavone and went from Nitro to Raw, you went from the same 'ol shit to an EPIC holy shit win from Mankind, during a chaotic ending with a super hot crowd. I'm sure many viewers started to pay more attention to Raw moving forward because of that moment.....
ReplyDeleteA moment that was an attempt by Bischoff to sound like the bigger, better company by giving away the pre-taped Raw finish on his live Nitro telecast, but came off as cheap. Foley was picking up steam with wrestling fans, and during the same time segment WCW televised the Fingerpoke Of Doom vs a super hot Mankind victory. Combine everything and WWF came out looking superior.
Disagree. This was the perfect storm of stupid, because of the many reasons already discussed. And also, because this went head-to-head with Mick finally winning the big one.
ReplyDeleteThis angle was among the worst ever. The Hogan/Flair double turn at Superbrawl (after the nWo literally tried to bury Flair alive in a desert, no less!) was the icing on the cake.
ReplyDeleteAnd while I'm remembering the Flair angle, does anyone else remember the weeks that followed the Fingerpoke, where WCW would tape angles outside the arena or backstage and the announce team would act like they never saw any of it? Somebody thought DRAMATIC IRONY ON A WRESTLING SHOW was a good idea!
ReplyDeleteWow, suddenly, WWE in 2014 doesn't sound so bad anymore.
So the Amish are worse than al Qaeda?
ReplyDeleteA cattle prod doesn't look anything like whatever the fuck Hall was carrying either.
ReplyDeleteIf not better...
ReplyDeleteI had to look back at what my reaction to all this was. I think to those already down on WCW it was... eh. But to those still on the fence, or those not really taking sides in the Which Promotion Is Better fight, this was a watershed moment. It told people that WCW was broken at the fundamental story-telling level. It wasn't really a matter of hindsight even. Almost immediately people embraced the Fingerpoke of Doom as a sign of everything that was wrong with WCW and how there seemed to be no clear path to coming back. It felt to many like the beginning of the end and--at least symbolically--it kinda was.
ReplyDeleteWCW ratings were still very high until April. It was the followup the killed WCW's ratings, not this moment. Dat groupthink.
ReplyDeleteNah, I was still big into WCW at this point (though I was probably about even in WCW/WWF too), and this itself didn't bother me. After Souled Out, though, I went pretty much full bore WWF and never really looked back. By summer of 1999 I was barely even paying attention to Nitro.
ReplyDeleteToo bad Hogan's fingerpoke wasn't Dim Mak's poison hand touch of death and Nash died after he too 100 steps.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, that was one of the best bumps Nash ever took.
ReplyDeleteSuckas gotsta know.
ReplyDeleteThe more I look back on it, the more it feels like simple, basic, Wrestling 101 story-telling--and WCW's failure to realize that--played a huge part of driving the company into the ground. The NWO was a hot angle but man they augered that baby into a mountainside. Week after week the NWO kicked WCW's ass. Then the NWO split up into feuding factions. WCW just never seemed to win. Never got revenge. Never got its heat back. Good never triumphed over Evil. And after like a year of that people paid money to see Goldberg beat Nash on PPV. But he lost. And Eric Bischoff beat Ric Flair in a match. And the Fingerpoke. Go back and look at the declining PPV buyrates in '98 and you see people just didn't want to pay money to see any of it anymore. Certainly not when they gave away so much for free on TV. They stopped paying to see the Bad Guys always win. Sure there was stuff to like about WCW if you were a fan, but WCW lost the ability to connect with too many of the fans at a fundamental story-telling level--the level at which a fan could Believe, and be willing to open up their wallets.
ReplyDeleteAnd you were greeted with the biggest pop you ever heard.
ReplyDeleteWhen those teens get their hands on our technology, maybe.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the Fingerpoke is bigger as a "defining moment" kind of thing, where everyone watching ultimately just goes "Fuck It" and switches to the other side. The ratings didn't immediately nosedive (which is what Nash & his apologists always jump to), but the fact that people STILL talk about this specific instance all the years later, and it continued WCW's downward spiral, while the WWF kept going higher and higher with their Rock/Foley feud, speaks wonders. I still remember that "Sex, Lies & Headlocks" book's description of the event, saying that "viewers switched away to watch the two hardest-working men in wrestling, instead of the two laziest".
ReplyDeleteit was the standing back up that got him
ReplyDeleteThe problem was that you never got the payoff, and 99% of that was because of Hogan (and, by extension, Bischoff making sure Hogan got what he wanted and stayed on top all of the time). The young interesting guys never got anything that mattered or went anywhere, and the old guy booking was so steeped in politics that they couldn't just do a proper angle. Which is a shame because it's not like the didn't have decent ideas. Even the Starrcade screwjob/Fingerpoke angle had plenty of potential (though it was definitely too early to end the streak) if it played out as Goldberg going through the NWO before beating Hogan again. But yeah, that was never going to happen because Hogan (and Hall and Nash to a lesser extent).
ReplyDelete