Here's a thought to really define the "great ones" in the modern era of professional wrestling. Being the world champion doesn't necessarily mean what it used to, with so many champions, the belt being used as a prop & used for story line advancement in many cases. But back when the NWA/WCW and WWF were competitors there were far less champions & only a handful of guys were given the opportunity to be World Heavyweight Champion in both promotions. I think Flair being the first, then Hogan, Savage, Sid, Nash, Benoit, Big Show, and finally Bret Hart. How big of a deal was it at the time that Flair was the first to accomplish this compared to the time guys were jumping ship and Bret finally did it? Was this initially a major accomplishment in the business and if so did the luster wear off by the time the Wars started and belts were hot-shotted?
Thanks much
Well people certainly lost their minds when Bobby Heenan first showed up with the NWA World title at Summerslam, that's for sure. But yes, certainly it was a bigger deal when Flair did it than when Sid did it. Although Flair had so many other accomplishments that oddly enough it ended up being one of the lesser ones. It's actually more impressive that, for example, the Dudley Boyz are the only team to win the WCW, WWF, WWE, World, ECW, NWA, TNA and IWGP tag team titles in an era where teams form, break up and are forgotten a week later.
They could just claim the chant is what's popular and that most people don't associate it with Bryan.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, that's probably true.
I was thinking about that also... the Vince/HHH thing seemed to disappear off the dirtsheets and the screen in recent months... seems like they gave up on it.
ReplyDeleteIm right there with you. I was cautiously excited for Batista to return, but mainly just because I wanted him to keep playing the asshole heel he was when he left. No interest in seeing face Batista at all.
ReplyDeleteYou touched on what I expect to happen: Undertaker is a surprise entrant and wins to set up Brock v Undertaker, Title v Streak at WM (with Brock winning the belt at the Elimination Chamber), thus setting up Cena / Punk / Bryan v HHH / Orton / Batista for Mania. They can even give the faces Hogan as their manager with Flair reuniting with Evolution. Assuming they don't pull the trigger on Hogan v Piper, of course.
ReplyDeleteI dont think WWE wants to deflect any kind of mainstream attention so if it catches on beyond MSU games, I think WWE will really run with it. I dont know, maybe I just like being disappointed.
ReplyDeleteI apologize if this has been brought up but isn't Bryan going over Bray, assuming he does go over, better for him then being being in the rumble and not winning? I get that people want him to win it, I do also, but assuming that's off the table wouldn't going over Bray and ending this Wyatt thing the next best thing for him?
ReplyDeleteI remember jumping to my feet when Bret's music hit and then laughing my ass off when hbk started gloating. As a guy who never liked hbk, I loved his month long heel run back in 05.
ReplyDeleteThey won the WCW tag-titles while a part of WWF.
ReplyDeleteI think everyone obviously would rather see Bryan go over Bray instead of losing the Rumble. The point is, given the fan reactions DB is getting, it is absurd to book anybody but him to win the Rumble. Period.
ReplyDeleteHBK's big boot sell is a thing of glory.
ReplyDeleteBig Show/Raven nWo 2001 or GTFO
ReplyDeleteBut what is better? 1 Millionen buys for Wrestlemania and 1 Million for the rest combined OR 800000 for Wrestlemania and ca. 2 Million for the rest combined?
ReplyDeleteProblem today is also: Only Wrestlemana matters and it's the only ppv where the "new guys" are only standing in the second row, while the old part timers get the main events. And you wonder why nobody buy the other ppvs...
I get that. We've kinda expected Batista to win this for weeks now. With the concussion news probably limiting a long term spot in the rumble, I don't think him going over Bray is a bad fallback plan.
ReplyDeleteAnd Hogan never ever deserved to win against HBK in 2005.
ReplyDeleteIf I remember correctly, this was the same ppv where Matt Hardy had his match stopped for blood loss after an average at best blade job and then Hogan goes out there and starts bleeding buckets and the ref did nothing.
ReplyDeletethey should have Owen Hart going over at that match. not only it might have created at least a bit of doubt about the outcome of the WrestleMania match against Bret Hart, but that way you would had a much better build up for another b ppv headlined by a Michaels/Owen Hart rematch (they could even have easily transferred to Michaels/Bulldog if they still wanted to. but it would have been a lot better than Diana acclaiming Michaels of unwanted sexual advances out of nowhere).
ReplyDeleteI think if the sports commentators bring up Daniel Bryan's name in relation to it...
ReplyDeleteHe's been back for one Raw so far. A babyface reaction was expected upon his debut. He could still very easily go heel. I don't think there's any reason to write it off as a failure yet.
ReplyDeleteIt's like the "warm embrace" of that stand by boots call...familiar territory and beaten to death but still pleasurable enough to keep you coming back
ReplyDeleteWho called it a failure? Certainly not me. I just dont like Batista, never really have, outside of his heel gimmick before he quit. So I have no interest in seeing any other gimmick from Batista.
ReplyDeleteEvolution batista= awesome
ReplyDelete2005=awesome too
2006 to 2009= kinda boring,however it did has some moments
Hollywood Dave=Best gimmick of his career.
It was a weird idea to begin with because Vince seemed to be fully on HHH's side during that first Raw after Summerslam when they all congratulated Orton in the ring.
ReplyDeleteThat's why, if he does come back and this angle do happen, Vince backing Bryan makes the most sense. He was on HHH's side at first, but then as he saw the reactions Bryan has been getting, he changes his tune. Vince realizes that Bryan's the future and he wants him to get a fair shot.
To complete this OMGYESDANIELBRYAN scenario, Bryan/Vince coming out on top of whatever match is made could mean HHH/Steph/Brad/Vickie/etc all lose power and we can go back to not having a regular authority figure on TV. A longshot for sure, but that's why it's *fantasy* booking.
I reckon Punk will be elimated by HHH by 'accident'. A mid carder will be injured, HHH will come out to check on him, HHH 'accidentally' pulls the top rope down, causing Punk to fall out.
ReplyDeleteCM Punk supports this
ReplyDeleteYou should think that best for business should be giving the rumble win and the title at wrestlemania to the most over guy they have...
ReplyDeleteI think we'll have face Batista for a little while at least, certainly until that Guaridans of the Galaxy film he's in has been and gone
ReplyDelete1996???
ReplyDeleteNo interest in a wrestler who WWE wants you to be interested in... that's a failure. Sorry for putting words in your mouth, but that's how I interpreted it.
ReplyDeleteThat the commentators are either fans or being fed some info to fill in viewers on what that chant the fans are doing is.
ReplyDeleteThese questions are making me feel comfortable like the shower room at Penn State. Here's my headshot....................
ReplyDeleteDude, sell this makes sense. After making peace with Batista winning the rumble weeks ago, I started to think wwe might change course and have Bryan win it. I just can't see it tho anymore. The concussion stuff, being booked with Bray in a singles match, and their hard on for Batista all points to Batista winning the rumble to me
ReplyDeleteWhat will be REALLY annoying is in a few years when these guys are all old and we have to listen to all the legacy promos where Cena and Orton talk about being 30-time champions.
ReplyDeleteThis is all I remember about The Dudleys and the IWGP tag titles.
ReplyDeletehttp://i43.tinypic.com/x3h4dy.gif
So... youre the one calling it a failure, not me. Im sure he will make money for WWE, which means to them it isnt a failure. All im saying is I find Batista boring unless hes playing the asshole heel he was when he left. Thats it.
ReplyDeleteJust wait till a part time Randy Orton is brought back for WM 40 to go on 2nd from the top! Talk about exciting
ReplyDeleteThank you Sweet Lee
ReplyDeleteI would rather watch Batman & Robin.
ReplyDeleteThat was funny.
ReplyDeleteYup. It's not a bad plan B.
ReplyDelete1. Bryan wins his match and gets people fired the hell up for the actual match.
2. Realistically, Batista should win his first match back. (Now personally, I think it's idiotic to have Batista in the Rumble at all. I really thought they were going to have him just come in and destroy ADR but here we all are)
3. If Bryan is facing Undertaker at Mania, then he can't win the Rumble.
4. It might be easier to protect Bryan's noggin in a one on one match.
...and maybe that's what it's supposed to point to. Then... Surprise!
ReplyDeleteEven if the Rumble card does suck and Batista wins and remains a babyface, the suspense and speculation for this show and what it means for WM30 has been wildly fun.
Cutch yesterday I celebrated one year of sobriety myself. Never felt better, it's strange how much life you miss when drugs and alcohol have a hold on you.
ReplyDeleteGeez Paul, you're taking suggestions now? If that's the case, let's have a QOTD about our favorite cartoons or something.
ReplyDelete"3. If Bryan is facing Undertaker at Mania, then he can't win the Rumble. (NO BUT CENA VS TAKERAASHKWEKLGH)"
ReplyDeleteMmmmmmmmmmmmmm pizza
I remember meltzer reporting that the original plan was for Vince to be the heel in the inevitable "hhh bs Vince" angle with hhh being the upstart face trying to take over power from Vince. He also reported they nixed that since they felt an old Vince would be to sympathetic in that role to be an effective heel. Seems like they planted the seeds for that with the hhh heel turn at Summerslam. I still would be surprised to see Vince show up after the rumble, but it is odd all talk of this "major" angle have disappeared
ReplyDeleteBatman: The Animated Series. Still love it 22 years later.
ReplyDeleteOK. We are coming at it from diferent perspectives. WWE making money does not matter at all to me, so I classify a failure as something that fails to entertain me. I do watch this stuff to be entertained, not to see how the company will make money.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that Batista needs to be an asshole heel in order to be entertaining.
Oh, and what cartoons we hated.
ReplyDeleteSince we're taking the time to give a shit about the WCW title, we can add Jericho and Rock to the list of guys that held it and the WWF title too. Sure they won the WCW belt while in the WWF, but Sid, Bret, and Benoit won the WCW belt when everybody was done caring about it.
ReplyDeleteFits the typical WWE definition of a "babyface." The more dastardly the tactic, the more fitting for a hero!
ReplyDeleteYeah. I think Hollywood Dave will make a comeback nearer the end of the run...
ReplyDelete...but if it's dark, how are we able to watch?
ReplyDeleteThey're no faces and heels anymore.
ReplyDeleteWith their healthier lifestyles and WWE's improved policies regarding medical issues, the current crop of full time main eventers are going to be around for a loooong time as part-timers (if they want to be).
ReplyDeleteHow long do you think?
ReplyDelete*wet dream* booking
ReplyDeleteFIFY
I really thought they might change course and have Bryan win the Rumble for the past week but seeing what they did with batista and Bryan monday, I'd bet anything Batista wins.
ReplyDeletePS: NO, PHIL BUT CENA VS TAKERAASHKWEKLGH!
If Bryan has to endure a Wyatt beatdown in his match with Bray, it would just be him getting revenge in the same way that someone like Austin would have. I think it would go over huge.
ReplyDeleteRyan Murphy after the first 2 beers?
ReplyDeleteBc of stiffing the shit out of Austin at stampede didn't Vince wash his hands with bruce? (In Bret's book he said something like Bruce might get a job with the company around that time)
ReplyDeleteWe just got to wait, if WWE can pull Bryan out of a story where we thought he would be buried, they can have him win the Rumble.
ReplyDeleteCena vs Orton, End Of An Era Match, WM 50
ReplyDeleteOh crap....
ReplyDeleteWhere is the show at? If the crowd starts chanting for Daniel Bryan around #28 or so and he doesn't come out they might shit over Batista winning anyways. Instead of purposefully being vague about his participation they should have come up with a storyline reason for him to not be in it. I honestly wouldn't care if they out right fired him or jobbed lesnar and undertaker to him back to back but it seems odd they wouldn't put their most popular guy over here. But whatever
ReplyDeleteStill shawn just proved that even Jesus freaks can still be petulant assholes. The promo the night after was the icing on the cake, shawn will always be a prick, and all the Hail Marys and prayers can't change that.
ReplyDeleteWow, before clicking it said the thread had over 50 post.
ReplyDeleteThey were supposed to have a rematch, but shawn being a baby ruined any chance of that.
ReplyDeleteWorst scenario: Elimination tag match with co-GM Cena's team vs co-GM Orton's team. The two of them eliminate everyone else so it comes down to 1-on-1.
ReplyDeleteNo one ever has a perfect bracket, u hv a better chance of winning a million in the lottery.
ReplyDeleteNew random question of the day: Best excuse to leave work early if you have an interview for a new job. Not that it's for me. My, um, friend is looking for an excuse. For tomorrow. Cuz I have an interview.
ReplyDeleteI agree. The vagueness either points to shitty, thoughtless booking or a surprise winner. I choose to believe in the latter, but will be prepared to complain about the former.
ReplyDeleteIf Batista wins the Rumble and the crowd acted like that, the DVD would need lots of editing.
ReplyDeleteWWE, the new WCW.
ReplyDelete"C'mon, Universe...sure we didn't let your guy win the Rumble, but at least we didn't have him LOSE!! Fistbump? huh? huh?"
ReplyDeleteThis is like WWE giving us a can of Lobster Cola. Sounds nice at first, but the more you think about it, the more you realize the result isn't what you really want.
It's in Pittsburgh. Man, I think they really are afraid of the backlash of him being in it and not winning. I could see some scenario where Bryan beats Bray but then gets beat down by the Wyatts just so fans don't expect him to enter in the rumble. Depending on the match order, this could get ugly pretty quickly. Crowd could shit on the rumble if Bryans not in it/Batista wins and then the bore fest that'll be Orton/Cena
ReplyDeleteBenoit technically didn't win because SIDS foot was under rope. Now my question about that us do you think that was planned in case Chris did what he did and left?
ReplyDeleteSo I can see placing Bryan below cena. I get it 100%. And I can see lesnar and undertaker being bigger attractions in vinces eyes, but Batista...4 years after wm26? I am a fan of the guy, absolutely.The smart babyface wwho's actually cool and not dorky and mentally out maneuvers theheels aand then beats the shit out of them. Pretty awesome. And he makes an amazing heel, as proved by the fact his last fucking fantastic heel turn overshadowed his great face work. Love Batista so don't get me wrong but...
ReplyDeleteIs there really more money in running with Batista after he's been gone 4 years, than running with Daniel Bryan who is one of the hottest guys they've ever had? Financially how can it make the wwe more money than putting Bryan over at mania, which is exactly what the fans want, not just us, almost every fan, and giving him a run?
Is Pittsburgh one of the smarky towns? I can never remember which places have the good crowds outside the of big ones like Chicago, Philly, NYC.
ReplyDeleteYep, this was definitely how the "demographics" broke down in 96. I was at Summerslam 96 and the men in the crowd were very anti-Shawn to the point where some were even heckling the kids who were cheering him on (hey, it was the cheap seats :)). The thing is, the men those days were either much smaller in number or volume as a percentage of the audience. As much as WWE is blatantly "PG" these days, it seems there are still more fans our age (late-20's, early 30's) today than there were back in the mid-90s. Maybe it was because the Hulkamaniac generation hadn't fully grown up and the Attitude era hadn't happened so there weren't as many fans who "stayed on" from the glory days then.
ReplyDeleteYou've somehow managed to maintain some level of optimism in regards to the wwe product. I envy this
ReplyDeleteI just came here to cringe.
ReplyDeleteI think the best use of Batista at WM30 is against Lesnar. Neither even has to be booked as clear cut faces/heels -- it's just two monsters who've never really feuded before. And promos can have Lesnar bragging about his MMA accomplishments while Batista spent his time away fighting losers and then jumping to movies.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. The emailer's point was about wrestlers making it to the top while working for multiple promotions. Jericho and Rock winning the WCW title after the company went under isn't the same thing. Same for the Dudley's WCW title and any of the other wcw title reigns after Mach 26, 2001.
ReplyDeleteTypically the north east is snarky but Pittsburgh doesn't stand out to me so I don't think they're to bad. I'd give anything for YES chants as Batista stands tall after winning the rumble and during the Orton/Cena match
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure someone (Sullivan?) has confirmed that was the case.
ReplyDeleteI think it's because they lose money every time Bryan steals a t-shirt from the booth to wear to the ring, while Batista just raids Forever 21.
ReplyDeleteI think they really should have gotten it over with before the show. Have him and bray fight too much on a raw so he's too dangerous to be in the match, or have the authority tell him no he's not in it, or anything else than (arguably) misleading the paying customer and then just hoping they don't freak out. And again, the fact that this is a thing they are worried about makes me wonder why not just put him over. If they left him on top for a few months maybe the fans get it out of their system and move on.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he thought about Bret Hart in 93...
ReplyDeleteIt's really too bad the "NO" chant isn't as popular as the "YES" chant.
ReplyDelete(Wrestler about to enter Rumble, countdown clock starts)
"YES! YES! YES! 3....2....1 EEEEEnnnnnnnhhhhh" *Batista music plays* "NO! NO! NO!"
No Chance In Hell Orton/Cena main events, IMO. The Rumble will be the main event, no matter who's winning.
ReplyDeleteThis is...odd. I guess I support people living how they want...I dunno
ReplyDeleteWWE seems to be oblivious to the fact that Chicago has never had a Royal Rumble PPV...that's the only one of the big 4 that has never been here...
ReplyDeleteChicago crowds are the most raucous and cause some of the most memorable crowd memories in wrestling and adding the Royal Rumble to a crowd like that would be a sight to behold...
Damn, now I'm wishing Rumble and WM could trade cities. I'd definitely go to the Rumble to get that chant going, because I can be a snarky ass.
ReplyDelete;)
(YES!, YES!, YES!, YES!, YES! BUZZ! [wrestler comes out, it's not Bryan] NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! [until he enters ring])
I'm generally a happy, positive guy. It has something to do with what my answer to the last QOTD would have been had I posted it.
ReplyDeleteHa! Vince would have been on the floor scraming "DON'T ring the f---ing bell! DON'T ring the f---ing bell!"
ReplyDeleteLobster Cola? Sounds downright awful.
ReplyDeleteMandatory abortions for the poor? Count me in
ReplyDeleteWait, Survivor Series won't last long enough to get that match... oh shit, you meant this year, didn't you?
ReplyDeleteYea. I agree. If Cena was winning I could see them putting that on last but the combination of a face (batiata) likely winning the rumble along with Orton probably winning,, the rumble has to close the show.
ReplyDeleteIf they can make it look truly "accidental", that would be a good spot.
ReplyDeleteEnough is enough, and it's time for a change!
ReplyDeleteLet's leave politics, religion, and sexual stuff for the blogs that specialize in same.
If I wanted to dscuss alternative sexual arrangements then I would have followed Sean Shannon, intead of Keith, after the great schism.
I don't even know if you could base greatness on title belts in the old territory days. The insane politics of the World title in the NWA (where Jack Brisco was really the only face to hold the belt any length of time after Thesz's heyday), Verne holding the AWA title far too long and Vince Sr's preference for really, really long title reigns. Measurables in a fake sport beyond gate receipts become very murky. I could argue that Jerry Lawler meant more than several NWA champions.
ReplyDelete7 card stud is boring and I still cant wrap my head around Omaha Hi-Lo. Not that I get to play all the time anymore anyway.
ReplyDeleteThat's the thing I'll never get. I'm a Bryan fan, but not to the extent of everyone else. I'll never get why they just didn't hot shot the belt on him for a few months after the Orton stuff. They either get a fresh new guy on top and make some money or the audience gets it out of their system and they can just put him back in the upper mid card.
ReplyDeleteI'm the same way with my stories. I can't even read more than a sentence of my old stuff without cringing so hard my facial muscles are cramped.
ReplyDeleteChork presents Elimination Chamber!
ReplyDeleteThe great taste of lobster......now in a cola!
ReplyDeleteCan we bring back the brand split? I mean seriously. Just give Smackdown to the wrestlers we Internet dweebs like; give us the US heavyweight and resurrected US Tag Titles, let Dutch book it and give RAW over to the Sports Entertainment crowd.
ReplyDeleteExcept for the MASSIVE backlash that would accompany Punk's elimination, if he were in the match.
ReplyDelete"Lady-parts problem"?
ReplyDeleteHilarious that even the mighty HBK can't out politicks Hogan
ReplyDeleteThey couldn't put Owen over, though, under the circumstances because Michaels put up his WrestleMania title shot to face Owen at IYH 6. So, if Owen goes over he goes to WrestleMania to face Bret. In some ways, I wish they'd just not had the match and had Owen be Michaels challenger instead of Bulldog in May/June since they had a backstory already written for it.
ReplyDelete*Ahem*
ReplyDeleteI was being facetious.
Batista really doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would agree to change course and let Bryan win the Rumble/main event Wrestlemania. If they agreed to bring him back give him the title at Wrestlemania it's happening.
ReplyDeleteDo you have kids? If so "Bad thing X happened to little Johnny" if not "Bad thing X happened to family member Y" just try and sell it like you are really shaken up and you should be fine. Or being that you are a reporter you could just say you have a lead or some shit... tell him Bully Ray called back and wants to talk about Brooke's ass...
ReplyDeleteI just think the next year should be spent building to Punk/Bryan. Have them feud beat the Ortons, Cenas and Batistas until they are both clearly the top guys, then build it with a big fight tone. (I know fantasy booking/wishful thinking)
ReplyDeleteI'm 100% with you on this - I really expect Bryan to be a surprise entrant and win the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteOf course, I'm just an eternal optimist when it comes to WWE. Oh, sure, I always *say* that I have no faith in them to do the "right" thing, but as the big show approaches, I invariably change my tune and start thinking that they will. And then I'm let down. And then another promising opportunity arises, and I say "yeah, but they're gonna screw this up, too", and then a week before the PPV I say "well, maybe not this time", and then they disappointment. And on and on and on. Hell, I was actually LOOKING FORWARD to the Punk/Nash feud, since I figured it'd give Punk a nice rub of beating an established star.
It really is an abusive relationship.
That said, as much as part of me is expecting the predictable Batista win (and horribly lame Batista/Orton WM main-event), I still have that side of me that's saying Bryan is going to win.
I'm really, really getting a 2004 vibe here. Ten years ago, we all figured there was no way that Benoit would actually win the "Rumble", and then a few months later, we all figured that there was no way Benoit would actually win the belt at WM. I'm getting the same feeling now, and I just can't help being optimistic, even if the last ten years really should have beaten it out of me.
Because it doesn't matter! As long as people are watching the show!
ReplyDeleteLike it was in the beginning. Here here.
ReplyDeleteIs this guy the Yankees signed from Japan any good? 22 mil a year for 7 years is a big chunk of cash for a guy who hasnt pitched one inning right?
ReplyDeleteEh, not necessarily the poor and not necessarily abortions. Counseling and regulations, look like good parents? Go for it, fuckwads? Abortion or paid surrogacy for adoptions
ReplyDeleteBook it now!
ReplyDeleteI am not a nugget!
ReplyDeleteHe is big.
ReplyDeleteHopefully he's another Irabu. So many spoiled Yankee fans in CT that didn't give a damn about them until Jeter
ReplyDeleteCRAZY TALK!
ReplyDeleteI Didn't want to feed this thread but at all but I've never met anyone in a polyamorous relationship ever. I've know a few people with open marriages but never anything close to this.
ReplyDeleteThey would just interpret that as them chanting "YES" because Batista won
ReplyDeleteExactly, he wouldn't give Melina back, even when JoMo asked REALLY nicely.
ReplyDeleteWomen are not possession... nope can't get through it
ReplyDeleteSo you're saying I shouldn't hold my breath for an assisted suicide QOTD? Or maybe I should hold it depending on your stance?
ReplyDeleteYou took the words right out of my mouth. This is entertainment and I watch wrestling to be entertained. When I'm not entertained, I stop watching until I hear about something that draws me back in. And I am certainly not going to waste my time posting online about how something that hasn't happened yet will probably suck.
ReplyDeletehaha, touché
ReplyDeleteYou tried.
ReplyDeleteWWE recognized Benoit's title win (when they still recognized his existence). He is recognized by everyone that matters as a former WCW champion.
ReplyDeleteI need to practice... spending time around my new lady friend I had to catch myself several times before saying something scathingly misogynistic because I have gotten so used to doing it here (and you know everywhere) and I am TOLD that they, for whatever reason tend NOT to appreciate that.
ReplyDeleteFans will shit all over it like they did with Sheamus' World Heavyweight title reign.
ReplyDeleteAgreed
ReplyDeleteIt's actually more impressive that, for example, the Dudley Boyz are the only team to win the WCW, WWF, WWE, World, ECW, NWA, TNA and IWGP tag team titles in an era where teams form, break up and are forgotten a week later.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.memegene.net/media/created/54156x.jpg
That's true. I guess it's just that all post-Fingerpoke WCW title reigns are null and void to me. And not just because of Russo, Arquette and the 8 times the title was vacated. But I just can't acknowledge Jeff Jarrett as four-time World Champion. That's just ridiculous. So Sid, Bret's and Benoit's WCW reigns don't even exist to me. But that's just me.
ReplyDeleteLMHSTFAO....
ReplyDeleteNot having your most over face conclude his months-long saga this way is just mind boggling, but it does bring to mind Edge's remarks on Talk is Jericho about his first World title reign ending at RR despite the spike in interest.
ReplyDeleteWwe should just hire people to go be live fans as "cast members" and appropriately cheer what they are told. Why not just do that if you don't want to cater to the live fans?
ReplyDeleteUgh @ that match. I think we can all point to that as the first sign of Super Cena, and the fact that he was truly "The Guy." Triple H tapping out to the STF at WM22 only cemented it.
ReplyDeleteStill... such bad memories of that match, but then, I'm a mark for Edge, so whatever.
I'm really curious to see what happens if they go through with the Batista Rumble win and match vs Orton, because I can't imagine the fans not turning on that match feud in the same way they did Orton/Show. There's so much going against it:
ReplyDelete- Orton is cold as ice, maybe about as un-over as someone with this level of push going into a Mania main event has been in fucking forever.
- They're obviously looking at Batista as this year's Rock (bulletproof eternally over face who the fans have been clamoring for), and Batista sure as shit ain't the Rock. The dude's been gone for almost 4 years and the audience hasn't exactly been begging for him to come back. Remember, Batista as a face never came close to reaching the heights he did from the initial HHH feud--- he basically lived off that for years, through a series of terrible matches and unmemorable promos/angles. Are fans really gonna be going crazy every week for Batista's mediocre face promos and shittily delivered spinebusters?
- Again, imagine week after week of Batista-Orton angles on Raw leading to Mania, with HHH and Steph in the middle doing an Evolution reunion tour. That stuff will absolutely DIE with crowds, to a chorus of Daniel Bryan chants.
Honestly, if they really do plan on going through with Batista vs Orton, they should have just stuck to their guns and kept Bryan a heel through Mania.
The Poly closet often has a much tighter door than the LGBT closet.
ReplyDeleteScott Steiner match skills > WWEs ability to interpret crowd chants
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, if Batista is winning the Rumble and main eventing, he is doing it against Brock and not Orton.
ReplyDeleteMoney.
ReplyDeleteIm pretty sure it's gonna be Brock/Batista, which although not my first choice, I'd be ok with as long as it's not the headliner
ReplyDeleteSure, because Batman & Robin is funny, despite being sad, whereas the proposed scenario is just sad.
ReplyDeleteWe are talking about 2003 Scott Steiner, right?
ReplyDeleteWell, as "a certain someone" apparently liked to say, "plans can't change, we've built to this for months"...except if he wanted 'em to.
ReplyDeleteTHIS. They are way overestimating the draw of babyface Batista. The dude lived off that initial HHH feud for what ended up being a pretty mediocre4-5 year face run. Aside from the shockingly good matches with Taker, what else do people remember babyface Batista for? Terrible matches/feuds with Booker, Khali, JBL that fans sometimes turned against? Him and Cena were made the same night, and Cena quickly and thoroughly lapped him in terms of popularity, money-drawing, match quality, memorable angles etc.
ReplyDeleteThe other thing is that Batista came along at the perfect time because he was the NEW MONSTER that was finally taking down HHH, the old guard that everyone was beyond sick of. Batista got over because he was new and cool. But will today's fans look at him that way? No fucking way. He's the one in the HHH role now, and fans will see him as the guy keeping "their guy" from being on top. And Big Dave doesn't have the Rock mic skills to keep those fans on his side. I really don't think this is gonna work out the way they hoped.
Pandering to juvenile frat boys is exactly what they were doing, and is part of the reason (along with Austin/Vince, of course) that business started to pick up and do better than ever.
ReplyDeleteIt really can't be Orton in the title match, right? It really blows my mind what an absolute waste this whole Orton push has turned out to be. The guy was a much bigger deal as a midcard face than he is now. Seriously, without the title I don't even see why Orton would have a place on the Mania card, that's how un-over he's gotten.
ReplyDeleteFace Batista wasnt that bad, and he had an awesome feud with undertaker and edge but most of his good shit after the hhh run was done on smackdown so I might be the only one who saw it. If Vince thinks a Batista return is the equivalent to a rock return he's making a big mistake re: wm buy rate. The whole time rock (who was 1000x more popular than Batista to start with) was gone he was in the public eye as a gigantic movie star. Big Dave is getting pulled out the moth balls. I don't see it
ReplyDeleteI...only understand some of that. And now I feel dreadfully old.
ReplyDeleteI think actual "Dan-iel Bry-an" chants need to be what happens, otherwise it's an easy WWE spin. Hell, Vince ideally wants "YES" to just become the all-purpose pro-WWE chant that can be detached from Bryan, though luckily crowds have mostly avoided that.
ReplyDeleteI'm the editor here, so normally it wouldn't be a problem, I just leave and say I have a meeting with some official. But tomorrow is one of our production days. I tried to get another day for the interview, but by the time I turned down two interview times, I felt like I couldn't turn down the third. I really want this position.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, Shawn was a cowardly heel at the time, while Bryan is currently a "fighting spirit" face. Different characters should win in different ways.
ReplyDeleteBut I guess the silver lining is that at least Batista is back for a full schedule. He's an interesting face who doesn't do a cena impression and will be pushed up to the top. At least there will be some different stuff at the top
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's got to be chants of DANIEL BRYAN, not just YES. Was it Over the Limit that concluded with Cena beaten down in the ring while the fans chanted DANIEL BRYAN? Because that was great, lol. The same thing happening as Cole screams about The Animal retaking his cage or whatever would similarly be so.
ReplyDeleteTrue dat
ReplyDeleteThat really wouldn't work for me... Plus, about once every 2 months or so, one of my two female reporters call in sick for that...
ReplyDeleteIt is a shame that you got snowed in on production day :(
ReplyDeleteThe last point is dead on. Batista MIGHT become a big star after Guardians... but taht comes out in August. As of right now he's not even a smidge more known in the general public than he was the day he quit WWE. If WWE was counting on his mainstream profile to help their business, then they should have waited to bring him back at Summerslam.
ReplyDeleteRight now he's just an older version of a guy who hasn't been on TV in 4 years, to an audience who has in a great deal moved on to new babyface stars.
I know, the obviously would have to change the IYH6 stipulations.
ReplyDeletethe reason why I think it would be great for Owen to have beaten HBK would be because it would also fit perfectly into Owens character ("I should be the World Wrestling Federation champion!" or maybe "I should have been the one that got the title match at WrestleMania!").
I agree with your premise but I think you are slightly underestimating him. He won't pop the needle like Rock, but there are only 3-4 guts on the planet that would. He's new on top, was a headliner fir a few years, and he's working a full time schedule. I know we all want Bryan to get the title match at mania but Brock/Batista ain't bad at all. Plus I'd be he turns heel after this initial return run. Heel Batista is always a good thing
ReplyDeleteThat's a myth.
ReplyDeleteLike I said in the live Raw thread, Save_Us.ADR
ReplyDeleteThey still do recognize him as a Champion, it's on their website and everything. They acknowledge his existence.
ReplyDeleteEven though it is my hometown, Pittsburgh isn't known for having the hottest crowds, at least not recently.
ReplyDeleteIf they had an inkling that Benoit was going to bolt, why give him the title at all? Look, if I know someone that works for me is going to split, I'm not giving them a raise/promotion/whatever. It's just ridiculous that WCW would give him the world title knowing he was a flight risk.
ReplyDeleteYea, I remember a few solid pittsburgh moments, specifally Rock airing the Kurt Angle pizza commercial but couldn't remember how their crowds are. Are you planning on going?
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree that the reaction to CM Punk, the now-official #1 entrant to the Rumble, winning the Rumble from the #1 position would be "far less positive" than it would be for Daniel Bryan. I'd say 95% of the fans that love and cheer for Daniel Bryan also love and cheer for CM Punk.
ReplyDeleteHeel Batista is great, as it plays to Batista's strengths as a character (looks like a Eurotrash d-bag) and in the ring (slow pace, power moves). So a return to that would be awesome.
ReplyDeleteAnd yeah, Brock/Batista would be interesting and fresh, and the two monsters colliding would get casual's interest for sure. I agree, Brock being involved would put a lot of heat on that match.
But I think aside from a Brock feud/match, the fans are not gonna be all in on Big Dave as a face. A feud vs Orton, whether at Mania or somewhere else, would absolutely DIE. People didn't give a shit about their feuds in 2007-2008, they're gonna absolutely turn on it Orton/Show style now.
Again, WWE is gonna be in for a bit of s shock if they think the fans are gonna be into a 5 month babyface Batista title run. The dude was a mediocre worker THEN, I doubt he's better now, and he doesn't exactly have the Rock promo skills to cover for it. And in a lot of ways the fans have MOVED ON, to stars they connect with and to a better quality of main event matches. Short of the match vs Lesnar, I think a dominant Batista face run will kind of bomb.
"Stranger in the Alps • 18 hours ago
ReplyDeleteHey Meekin! Now do an article on the benefits of polygamy!"
I would have thought that my sarcastic tone came through in my words.
No. But a Bryan Rumble win plus Brock would have definitely sold me. But I'm not dropping money to see fucking Batista win.
ReplyDeleteYea. That's why I think there's gotta be a heel run in here pretty soon. The big programs they'd have to run would be Cena, Punk, and maybe a HHH program (ugh). Punk/Batista and Cena/Batista would at least hold my interest for awhile.
ReplyDeleteIt kinda sucks because as someone pointed out, I bet they agreed upon a title reign of X amount of days for him when he negotiated his return so they are a little boxed with it
I'm actually a Batista fan, but pushing him over Bryan is going to start making me annoyed at big Dave. Good job WWE!
ReplyDeleteI think it was their way of saying "Nononono, we weren't REALLY relegating you to the mid-card. See? Have this belt. Isn't it so shiny and alluring? Why leave now??"
ReplyDeleteYea. I usually buy the rumble but this is gonna be a tough sell for me also.
ReplyDeleteAll the fish are gone though. Anyone who is that motivated to get online and play poker is the kind of person who knows what they're doing. The lovely soft games went away with first the UIGEA and then Black Friday.
ReplyDeleteIt's still a stupid move.
ReplyDeleteYou know, for all we talk about how Daniel Bryan — their hottest act, the guy with the biggest crowd support etc etc— doesn't have any direction going into Mania... what about John Cena? They have done absolutely jackshit to create any direction for the guy heading into Mania. Yeah he's in a title match Sunday, and I guess he COULD go into Mania defending the belt but that seems somewhat unlikely. Short of him defending the title in a rematch vs Bryan, there's no longterm storyline that Cena could possibly conclude at Mania. He's basically gonna end up working some patchwork feud that they put together for him after the Rumble or EC.
ReplyDeleteFor a guy who's supposed to be their #1 headliner, the guy who BEAT THE ROCK last year... why the fuck haven't they given more thought into building something up for him to do?
From WCW? Nonsense.
ReplyDeleteIt's GOTTA be Taker at this point, for that reason. I can't buy the whole Hogan/mixed rage stuff, no way they use their perceived #1 draw on a mid card nostalgia match. He doesn't fit into the title stuff so that only leaves...
ReplyDelete::lights go off and the gong sounds::
He gets Bray Wyatt?!?!
ReplyDeletePossibilities:
ReplyDelete- Undertaker programs don't usually start until after or at the Rumble.
- The Cena/Wyatt rumors are true and the program starts kinda soon
- Gimmick match or tag team or whatever the fuck it may be with Hogan
The publisher was so convinced we would have to close today that he pushed me to get my staff to have as much of our work done yesterday as possible. As a result, I'm sitting here with nothing to do until the City Council meeting feed on my laptop kicks up.
ReplyDeleteSadly, I wouldn't be shocked if this happens at some point. I'm surprised RAW doesn't end with credits scrolling listing all the talent on the show, all the backstage people, the writing staff, etc. like a sitcom.
ReplyDeleteI think they were trying to keep Benoit and that was a last-ditch effort. You to remember that WCW 2000 before Russo/Bischoff tried to save it was a complete & total dumpster fire w/ no leadership. Just a panic move.
ReplyDeletetechnically buddy rogers was the 1st, no?
ReplyDeleteThe problem with bringing back Batista as a face(other than he is better as a heel) is that after 30, who do you put him with? Other than Orton, there are no top heels that can main event. So you're gonna have babyface Dave with the title and 3 more popular guys under him(Cena, Punk, and Bryan). It is a disaster waiting to happen.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I remember that, and I know they were doing everything they could to keep the Radicalz from jumping ship, but from what I remember, there was a really slim chance of that happening.
ReplyDeleteYou might be right, but I think you're writing off Batista a bit. He does have a bad ass charisma and people I think will respond to him (if he doesn't get too cute with his character). I'm fine with Batista winning if he's entertaining and in a good storyline, and is passable in the ring. DB to me is in the Shawn Michaels zone of perpetually over, so it doesn't matter if he wins the Rumble or not, fans will still go nuts for him.
ReplyDeleteBut hey, whenever you can put the title on a 45 year old who never moved the needle at the biggest show of the year, you gotta do it.
ReplyDelete'WWE Raw is filmed in front of a live studio audience'
ReplyDeletethe thing with the dudz begs the whole question of "does it count that they had the 'wcw' titles even though wcw had ceased to exist"
ReplyDeleteYea. I think there's gotta be a heel run after this initial return run. I get that they want to bring him in as a returning face but the money programs are really Cena, Bryan, Brock, Punk. 3 of those 4 are faces. I wouldn't mind seeing a corporate champ Batista taking on the 3 faces for awhile.
ReplyDelete