> You said the other day that "any HOF that doesn't include Macho Man isn't a real HOF."
>
> My question is....how would you go about inducting him? Do you induct Macho alone, knowing that it is against what he wished and knowing that his family (who should rightfully accept on his behalf) won't attend? Or do you cede to Macho's alleged wishes and induct the Poffo family as a whole (knowing that, at the very least, Lanny has no business in it).
>
> Seems kind of like a no-win situation that is bound to upset someone, so in order to legitimize the WWE HOF in your eyes, what would you suggest they do?
Lanny said that they can do whatever they want, so I would just induct him and be done with it.
>
> My question is....how would you go about inducting him? Do you induct Macho alone, knowing that it is against what he wished and knowing that his family (who should rightfully accept on his behalf) won't attend? Or do you cede to Macho's alleged wishes and induct the Poffo family as a whole (knowing that, at the very least, Lanny has no business in it).
>
> Seems kind of like a no-win situation that is bound to upset someone, so in order to legitimize the WWE HOF in your eyes, what would you suggest they do?
Lanny said that they can do whatever they want, so I would just induct him and be done with it.
A buddy of mine wanted to be a wrestler. This speech changed his mind.
ReplyDeleteI never saw him actually wrestle. Announcing is probably a better gig unless he was really awesome. I could only assume his promos would be terrible.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's exactly this kind of negative coaching is never done in real sports.
ReplyDeleteI'd actually like to hear poster Nate Nash give his take on this because I believe he coaches youth football. My experience is that is kind of thing is counter productive and damaging, and that was with groups of guys being groomed for NCAA ball and beyond. I can't believe the actual trainers would find this useful or effective
ReplyDeleteI still remember the episode where they were all doing moonsaults, and Josh seemed to be the only one that was landing in really bad angles, even on the extra padding they were using.
ReplyDeleteFor some reason, the belief that Al Snow had in Josh to actually hit the moonsault perfectly, when they got rid of the pad, was incredibly touching to me.
Who cares if Lanny poffo gets in with macho man. The genius was probably equal to koko b ware or the limo driver that probably buried a dead body for Vince's dad
ReplyDeleteThe other problem for rocketing guys like Roman Reigns, the same question has to be said: What's the point anymore? Take, for example- this big Roman Reigns push (or the Big E Langston push.) We know the endgame now. WWE's just going to rocket them, make them stars, then once the fans like them and buy into them, turn them heel so they can be fed to John Cena anyway. Why should fans buy INTO rocketing a guy to the top when we know the endgame?
ReplyDeleteMiss Elizabeth deserves to go in 100%
ReplyDeleteI actually have a hard time remembering whose in this thing. I could have sworn that Ernie Ladd had already been inducted
ReplyDeleteI think ^this is the compromise. You don't have to have anyone accept on their behalf or put them in together, just do 2 "In Memoriam" segments to show that they are officially in.
ReplyDeleteYeah Ernie was inducted when the HOF was in its early phase in the 1990s. I think he went in 1995, but it could've been 1996.
ReplyDeleteYou're confusing the Black History Month segments with the HOF segments.
ReplyDeleteHave Savage and Liz go in together and let CM Punk, (assume he and the WWE kiss and make up...if not him the Jericho.) and Trish Stradus co-induct them...that seems right
ReplyDeleteKoko B Ware never beat Hulk Hogan, (god that match still fucking pisses me off)
ReplyDeleteWait, what? HHHatred on this site? No way. No goddamn way. What's next, a Bryan or CM Punk thread? You're lunatics, all of you!
ReplyDeleteI don't get the whole anti-James Dudley thing. yes he drove a limo at one time, as part of his various roles, so what? He was according to reports Vince Snr's right hand man for 30 years and played a huge part backstage. He managed a handful of guys (particularly Bobo Brasil, and was quite a star in D.C.) but most of his work was behind the scenes. He was also the first black man (I believe) to run a major sporting arena.
ReplyDeleteSo yes he was a limo driver, but Gerald Brisco ran an auto body shop, you don't see people referring to him as the Mechanic do you?
I want Saba Simba this monday!!!! (with special guest Roddy Piper naturally)
ReplyDeleteLol OK cool. That's what happens when you watch raw on DVR and ffwd through tons of stuff. I saw huge thing about the big cat and was like, damn I could have sworn he was in there already!
ReplyDeleteThere's really no comparison between Gerald Brisco and James Dudley.
ReplyDeleteGerald Brisco was a gigantic wrestling star.
ReplyDeleteI agree Mechanics and limo drivers are different jobs, but they are still a small part of an entire career.
ReplyDeletewhy do people get worked up about the "order" people get inducted, if Savage waits a couple of years does it really matter?
ReplyDeleteTito Santana was inducted before Hulk Hogan, do you think the WWE consider Santana to be above Hulk Hogan in the list of all time greats?
I just looked at his Wikipedia page (so who knows for sure) and it said his duties under Jesse McMahon ranged from carrying water buckets to counting tickets. He was friends with Vince J and became his limo driver and body guard and then was assigned to manage some arena in DC. That doesn't seem like much to me. He must have killed someone for Vince 1.0 or covered up a rape or something. This behind the scenes stuff is too vague. Either way gerald brisco had a career that was about 1000x more important than this guy.
ReplyDeleteSorry, couldn't make it past two minutes.
ReplyDeleteOne guy is a wrestler who had a legendary career and is considered one of the best ever and had a auto shop as a side gig and the other guy carried water buckets and got promoted to limo driver.
ReplyDelete1994?
ReplyDeleteI'm not denying that Brisco was an important wrestling legend or that he deserves to be in the HOF, but I'm pointing out that if you believe that being a limo driver excludes you from being in the HOF, then surely being a mechanic does too.
ReplyDeleteBTW. If you base your opinions on historical figures by the size of their Wikipedia entry then you have bigger issues than looking foolish on a blog. Andy Kaufman has a larger Wikipedia entry than Martin van Buren, that doesn't make Andy Kaufman a bigger part of American history than Martin Van Buren
Gerald Brisco was one of the architects of the 80s wrestling boom, after a legendary career in the NWA as a Junior Heavyweight and tag team champion with his brother.
ReplyDeleteNo way on Luger. What'd he ever do?
ReplyDeleteBecause anything to trash what WWE is doing.
ReplyDeleteEveryone forgets that 50/50 booking has its fair share of benefits.
ReplyDeleteFor instance, everybody gets to win. I think that's nice.
As someone who coaches as well, #3 with a bullet point.
ReplyDeleteBrisco contracted hepatitis and injured his knee which led to him becoming a wrestler. Is that in and of itself enough to be HOF worthy? Dudley started out carrying water buckets. Chris Jericho worked as part of the ring crew. since when is the HOF based on what you did at the beginning of your career?
ReplyDeleteI was doing a drinking game, taking a drink every time HHH said "this business", but I finished my case in 5 minutes and needed to lay down for awhile
ReplyDeleteSavage not getting in is like your favourite band (which is KISS in everyone on Earth's case) not getting into the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame.
ReplyDeleteMy reaction: meh.
I am in no way saying that Brisco shouldn't be in the HOF. what I am saying is that if him working as a mechanic for part of his career doesn't bother wrestling fans why does James Dudley driving a limo cause so much trouble?
ReplyDeleteHe was in the WCW Hall too!
ReplyDeleteWhen are they putting the dipset in the rock and roll hof?
ReplyDeleteThis year, I think
ReplyDeleteLanny and his dad have no business being in the Hall of Fame. Didn't Gordon Solie quit WCW when he found out Angelo was being inducted into the WCW Hall
ReplyDeleteI dunno. Isn't Madonna in it?
ReplyDeleteI think the people who are objecting are saying he was *only* a limo driver.
ReplyDeletewhilst I'd agree that luger deserves to go in the HOF, with the way that Elizabeth died, I can see WWE shying away from inducting him for some time. There's a reason he never really gets mentioned on tv and hasn't got a legends contract.
ReplyDeleteWell for one I said that it was from Wikipedia as a disclaimer, and #2 all we know that this guy did was carry buckets and drive a limo and manage some rinky dink arena, who gives a fuck?
ReplyDeleteBecause he didn't do anything else.
ReplyDeleteQuit or got fired, something like that.
ReplyDeleteLuger was a huge star.
ReplyDeleteBrisco also wrestled legendary matches all over the world for almost twenty years and won titles in an era where they mattered. Dudley ended up getting a cup of coffee "managing" some arena in a market that's not even top 10.
ReplyDeleteIs everyone in the WCW hall in the WWE hall?
ReplyDeleteHe giggled those pecs pretty good
ReplyDeleteWas Gordon Solie a shoe repairer on the side? Because that would be coincidental.
ReplyDeleteThey should induct Leaping Lanny Poffo this year just to fuck with everyone.
ReplyDeleteThey should induct his frisbees
ReplyDeleteFunnily enough Angelo Poffo is in the WCW hall but that was mainly because WCW wanted to advance the Flair angle rather than Angelo's own merits.
ReplyDeleteIsn't the negative side of things used in situations where you want to break people down so you can rebuild them as a unit that has no random elements caused by individuality? Like if you want to have a group if people that won't question orders or disrupt a chain of command?
ReplyDeleteDon't understand the downvote as this comments is really true
ReplyDeleteWhat that youngster Saba Simba? Let him get a few years under his belt first!
ReplyDeletethat comment just made me look up the WCW HOF. They actually have a few guys not yet in the WWE HOF: Mr Wrestling II, Lou Thesz (who I could have sworn was inducted already), The Crusher, Dick the Bruiser, Ole Anderson, Jody Hamilton, Wahoo McDaniel & Angelo Poffo. so there's quite a few names, who whilst popular down south, I'm not sure if their career is HOF worthy.
ReplyDelete"all we know" this isn't some hidden overlord behind a huge conspiracy. Just because you only read Wikipedia doesn't mean that the rest of his career was a closely guarded secret.
ReplyDeleteThat's probably more of a military concept but there are ways to do that without threatening to hit someone or calling them shit (which is what hhh is doing, using physical intimidation). Having someone run the same drill over and over to build muscle memory and good habits while aggressively getting on them for making mistakes is fine and can achieve the same thing. Also I'm not saying coaches don't yell and chew people out, it happens all the time, but you never want to put someone so far beneath you or to make veiled physical threats
ReplyDeleteYou've resorted to defending ignorance here. Pretty sure you lost this round. Just say, "Wow, I didn't know some of this," and move on.
ReplyDeletewhich is exactly my point, to hear some of the idiots talk you would think that was his entire job. I know for some young people that race has never been an issue in their lives so they find it hard to understand why a black man running a major arena, being a popular star (abeit for a short time) and having a lot of backstage say, doesn't sound like much. But in historical context it was a huge achievement.
ReplyDeleteWell please enlighten me. What else did he do? The best I've seem you say is he managed an arena. A little non Wikipedia research tells me he managed turner arena. A 2,000 seat arena. That's not exactly msg. If that's all he did there must be a body he buried somewhere because the accomplishments of carrying water buckets, driving a car and "managing" (whatever that means) some tiny arena with less seats than a megaplex movie theater is not hall of fame worthy.
ReplyDeleteWow I didn't know some of what? They he drove a limo? Knew it? That he "managed" a small arena in the south? Didn't know but now that I do that doesn't make him hall of fame worthy. DC wasn't a wwwf hot bed, and that arena isn't a big deal. You and the other guy can down vote my posts and upvote each others but you realize that's not the same as presenting me with some kind of fact to back up an argument right?
ReplyDeleteIts not a major arena.
ReplyDeleteSo no more Disturbed or Limp Bizkit or Kid Rock
ReplyDeleteI was thinking more of squad you want to kill without mercy or needing to know the reason, and not really care if they could be killed themselves. Suffice to say not what you do if you want people to become stars and showman.
ReplyDeleteI feel *really* really really bad I haven't seen a Macho Man Match in it's entirety. Ever.
ReplyDeleteEssentially
ReplyDeletehttp://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lkWxDfACpNg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DlkWxDfACpNg
What the fuck?
ReplyDeleteI think maybe some people who haven't played sports seem to have this romantic notion of a coaching screaming at kids and pointing his finger in peoples faces, but that's just not done by successful or respectable coaches. It doesn't help make someone better and its just not an appropriate way to treat people. I
ReplyDeleteWe've had some weird picking of nits over the last couple of days.
ReplyDelete-Complaining about Cesaro getting a name change. Personally, I'm glad some guys can finally shy away from the NXT Random Name Generator again. Cesaro as a name conjures up "Caesar," and that's bad ass enough for me.
-Complaining about editing out PPV commercials or Over The Edge 99...I really have no idea why small edits (other than entrance music) affect people so much.
But picking on the HOF for not having Macho Man? Definitely worth it. The time will come in the next few years where all of this HOF stuff will have a physical presence. As the abstract becomes concrete, WWE owes it to its fans to properly credit Savage. You can pay tribute to celebs, JTTSs, or whoever you'd like, but don't OMIT someone as important, influential, and flat out legendary like Savage. Will we ever know for sure what makes the Savage-Vince relationship so uniquely bitter (after Vince's touching goodbye on Raw in '94, still trying to negotiate with him in late '96)?
And this where I'll say, "Wow. I didn't know this argument meant so much to you." I upvoted one informative Wright post, btw. Nothing else.
ReplyDeleteI know! I mean I've been a fan of wrestling for years, and I've always seen his work in clips or highlights, like I saw Him vs. Steamboat during the 24 hours of wrestlemania thing they did in 2000, and I've never really sought him out. I should...work on that...
ReplyDeleteExactly at I've been asking ever since the issue came up, and I've never seen or heard anything about it other than Lanny's word, which is why I don't really buy it. The funny thing is, I could be wrong but I swear Lanny had said it was his father's wish originally, not his brother's.
ReplyDeleteA really good coach can instill that whole run through a brick wall for the betterment of the team with no regard for yourself mentality by making you buy into the positive concepts and aspects of teamwork and unity without using fear and scare tactics
ReplyDeleteMichael khan, has three Oscars under his belt. He is a film editor. Alfred Hitchcock, has no Oscars, he was a director. One is very well know, the other the majority of people have never heard of. They do different roles. you could state that the Oscars are pointless because the guy who edited Casper is in it but the man who directed Psycho isn't.
ReplyDeleteThat's the same logic you are using when you claim the HOF is phony because James Dudley is in for his role and Randy Savage isn't in for his.
I would recommend that anyone who is interested in how actual, productive coaching works either read jobber's post or the autobiography of John Wooden. Changed my life (the autobio, not jobber's post :) )
ReplyDeleteHitch did win an honorary Oscar, but I see your point.
ReplyDeleteDo yourself a favor and watch the Macho Man v Ultimate Warrior retirement match...
ReplyDeletehe will get inducted, but a top level induction for a deceased wrestler isn't a top priority. They would rather induct guys who can physically turn up, especially if we're talking top billing for the class. Warrior may not agree to do the HOF if they wait a year, wrestlers may die or fall out with WWE, Savage isn't going anywhere.
ReplyDeletemy apologies, you are correct.
ReplyDeleteThey still made it a priority to get Hennig and Guerrero in posthumously. A Savage induction doesn't hurt the draw of the event at all, and he never disgraced the sport afterward in some sort of overdose. There's nothing stopping them from doing it--they'd still get a small boost of interest in the HOF ceremony itself, a lot more Macho retro merchandise will be sold--besides something only the McMahon family seems to know about for sure.
ReplyDeleteDon't know why everyone is hating on this, I thought it was a great segment and terrific acting job by HHH. Plus somone should reupload this video, but replace every time HHH says "Goldberg" with "CM Punk".
ReplyDeleteEditors are crucial for a film. Doing odd jobs backstage isn't crucial for a wrestling promotion. There have been 100's of people we don't know about that played prominent roles behind the scenes for the wwe or jcp or away etc. Why is he in the hall of fame? Because he's friends with the McMahon's. Fine but don't act like he's in there based on merits. He carried water (literally and figuratively) for the most powerful people in the industry, kissed the right ass, etc etc, and that's why he's in there. He's the weakest member of that hall of fame.
ReplyDeleteI don't really know but I'm sure HHH has drawn more money than Goldberg, especially since Goldberg was only on top for a short time.
ReplyDeleteI can see Angelo Poffo being inducted off his own back eventually, obviously as a smaller name in his class. But I can't see Lanny Poffo ever getting in the HOF. he had no real impact on wrestling history. Certainly nothing HOF worthy. Maybe someone can correct me and point out some big accomplishments of his that I've overlooked, but I doubt it.
ReplyDeleteThen Jericho became a legend.
ReplyDeleteDudley going in for being a backstage worker would be like inducting Roadies into the rock and roll hall of fame
Wait. So the limo Driver is solid but lanny isn't.
ReplyDeleteI mean they are at least equally irrelevant.
On a similar topic, Am I the only one who thinks Sean Waltman deserves a HOF induction? He always seems to get overlooked when we talk about 90's wrestlers who deserve to go in.
ReplyDeleteIve now read 8 different articles about James dudley. I'm not basing anything on ignorance. All I've seen is he was a gopher for Jesse, a friend and driver of vjm, and waved a towel for bobo Brazil. And then he managed (only for wrestling events BTW) a tiny arena in a non wwwf hot bed. If you think kissing McMahon ass is something we should all be in awe of and respect enough to honor with a hall of fame spot then so be it. But I'm not the one basing shit on ignorance.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't hate on HHH for this, I think he was saying what he really believes and also making sure they knew this shit wasn't something easy....
ReplyDeleteRead woodens autobiography for sure.
ReplyDeleteNot hating on HHH at all but I don't think he is on the level of a Goldberg when it comes to being a star...
ReplyDeleteGoldberg put asses in the seats, I'm not sure HHH was ever the reason folks spent money.....
Its a close call to me. I watched the gwf as a kid and the lightening kid gimmick was a pretty big deal too. I say they should just put him in as an nwo or dx group induction.
ReplyDeleteAlso I appreciate you challenging my dudley opinion. It forced me to do more research. I stand behind my opinion but now I have more info to base it on. The way a good debate should work imo
I started on late 80s WWF, stopped in early 90s, until the nWo came along and I jumped back on the wagon.
ReplyDeleteWhat's so great about Lanny and the Poffo clan other than Macho Man?
For all the hate we give the guy, he certainly has a point. And time and again I've watched this guy go out and work injured. Love watched this guy tear a quad and finish the match for frog's sake. So yeah, I'm down with doing whats popular, so i hate the guy. But man do I respect what he's done.
ReplyDeleteHalls getting in this year apparently...
ReplyDeleteI think it depends on if the HoF/Vince/people in charge wants Waltman as an overall performer, or as an "innovator" of cruiserweight/small guy style. He certainly isn't as great as the great WCW lucha guys, but he did add to nWo/dX.
ReplyDeleteGoldberg was the #1 draw in wcw. He sold merch, moved the ratings needle, buy rates etc. Hhh has never been as big as Goldberg in 1998
ReplyDeleteFair enough. You probably know more about Dudley than you ever cared to know now.
ReplyDeleteAwesome. He's one of my favorites. I always thought he should have gone further with his talent except for all of his alcohol problems. Might be a good time to induct him while he can still attend.
ReplyDeleteWell, 2000 was one of WWE's most profitable years and HHH was on top for most of that time.
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame he never truly recovered after the neck (?) injury in 1997. For such a smart guy in terms of wrestling IQ, he only had like a 3.25 star ceiling for the last half of his career. But before that, I loved his matches with the Clique, the Harts, and even his WCW matches with Flair and Guerrero.
ReplyDeleteWaltman going back to WWF was a real game changer in terms of perception. WWF was now cool, and consequently, Hall and Nash (the "cool" guys in WCW) lost incentive to try with their friend fired. There was brief window where he could've sniffed the main event in 98-99, but it was too crowded up there. And then, oddly enough, the guy who really brought the "cool" factor to NWO and DX was the one who people were bored with by 2000. I never agreed with "X-Pac Heat" though. To me, it was "Jarrett Heat."
He'll make it in, but probably only as a part of DX or NWO.
Took a quick look and it seemed the only buyrate Goldberg moved was Starrcade 98, but I agree Goldberg probably sold more merch than HHH, but as a PPV draw, I give the nod to HHH.
ReplyDeleteThat's about it. But apparently when Randy heard the Von Erichs got in as a family, he decided the Poffos should, too.
ReplyDeleteI mean, Angelo did run an outlaw promotion against the Lawler's which lead to some hot regional angles and an invasion angle when they eventually folded, but that was it.
I thought the backlash against Batista was more due to the fact that apart from "returning" he hasn't actually *done* anything worth cheering. He came back, cut a few very minor promos, jogged to the ring in the Rumble and won it. It wasn't like he came back and went apeshit destroying guys and eliminating half the Rumble. He hasn't even has a match yet right?
ReplyDeleteX-PAC v d-lo brown sniffed **** at the judgement day 1998 ppv.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I don't think Angelo or Lanny should get in. When you think about it, Angelo had no real impact on wrestling history either, other than fathering the Macho Man (and if that were enough of an accomplishment to warrant inclusion, then I want to see the parents of Roddy Piper and Hulk Hogan inducted this year). Winning a few regional titles and running a company for six years are fine, but nothing HOF-worthy, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI agree. The perfect example of this is a Punk title match (in the middle of his 400 day reign) taking place in the undercard while Cena vs Johnny Ace goes on last.
ReplyDelete*Slow clap*
ReplyDeleteJust stop. Stop. Thinking about this. You're spending way too much time arguing about James Dudley in the WWE Hall of Fame. Think about that.
ReplyDeleteAs for Macho Man, I had an idea that has already sailed by. When Jerry Lawler introduced the music montage after Macho's death, I would have done a special induction right then and there.
Pretty much this: television was ancillary during the heydey of the old territories system that Jim Cornette came up through; it was drawing gates that helped promoters determined who would make the most bank. By the late-1990s that wasn't necessarily the case anymore, or so Russo and McMahon believed. They certainly believe it today, though I cannot say that I enjoy that line of thinking. Ostensibly, the more people want to come see your product live, the more they'd want to watch it on television.
ReplyDeleteThose have been ruined for me ever since someone in the live chat commented "and boy could he dance..." I keep imaging the narrator saying that after a big line of historical information and end up laughing, which makes me feel terrible.
ReplyDeleteI think XPac Heat should be inducted as well.
ReplyDeleteRick Martel needs to go in. I have no idea why this company hasn't done it yet.
ReplyDeleteWaltman is an interesting case. He never really held a "major" singles title, but had a good run with Kane in the tag division. He was also part of one of the big moments in RAW history when he beat Razor Ramon. He was a good worker, but my HOF test is "can the history of the sport be written without you in it?" If the answer is no then you get in. On face, I'd have to say no.
ReplyDeleteNo idea how you call yourself a wrestling fan
ReplyDeleteMy favorite WrestleMania match ever. Not the best workrate and the finish is a little anti-climatic, but the post-match stuff more than makes up for it. Best storyline arc in wrestling history and we'll never see something like that again unless they try to do something with Bryan-AJ, but they've been separated in the storylines and that wasn't an issue with Savage and Liz.
ReplyDeleteonly if stephanie inducts him
ReplyDeleteit's only fair since he inducted her into his own club, HIYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
(sex, i'm talking about how macho and stephanie allegedly had sex)
Dude, jobber, just shut the fuck up already
ReplyDeleteiirc, hhh was the 1st superstar from the main roster who visited them. i always found his presentation on the video to be way overly dramatic
ReplyDeletedoesnt the one dude say something like "out of the corner of my eye, the door opened, and i saw the jean jacket walk through.. and there *he* was..."
Amen to that
ReplyDeleteThis promo is good except for the person making it. Triple H is married to the bosses daughter whom he works with 24/7, they have their own private jet, they have millons upon millions of dollars in their bank accounts. It was a great speech for TV, but I just roll my eyes at Triple H. He really thinks he is bigger than he is. Without marrying Steph, he might as well have been lined up next to the contestants.
ReplyDeleteGreat post bro
ReplyDeleteThanks now shhh
ReplyDeletehhh made the speech in 2001 while recovering from his quad injury
ReplyDeleteTop 3 for me. Warrior doing the 1 foot pin thing always annoys me tho.
ReplyDeletehe should pass them out to the audience at the ceremony
ReplyDeleteand he could hit an active heel in the head with one and BOOM insta-feud for the next night at WM
This is an older speech, hence my comments that him talking about the wife and kids got his brain turning.
ReplyDelete"Ole Anderson,
ReplyDeleteyeah, that one aint' happen'
as for wahoo, when he died, wwe didn't run a memorial to him and they actually got a lot of shit for it, and they ended up doing the graphic a few shows later
This was before Trips was married to Stephanie (though they were dating at the time). I doubt his treatment was all that preferential, though he had Vince's ear even back then.
ReplyDeleteAlso, HHH was a multiple time world champ before him and Stephanie even started dating.
I'm going to NOLA for WM weekend and me and my buddies have decided not to go to the HOF, because frankly $75 for a ticket isn't worth it we feel, unless in the next few weeks Macho or the Poffo family gets the announcement.
ReplyDeletePeak Goldberg was probably bigger than peak HHH, but that doesn't mean Trips can't talk trash about him. Stardom doesn't mean you're exempt from criticism. If it did, very few wrestlers would be justified in talking shit about HHH himself.
ReplyDeleteThe success in 2000 was primarily down to the Rock. I'm not saying HHH wasn't important, he was amazing that year. But take out HHH and the WWE is probably slightly less successful. Take out the Rock and I think business goes way down.
ReplyDeleteSavage-Hogan at 5 and Savage-Warrior at 7 are my two of my four favorite matches ever (the others being Rock-Austin at X-7 and Punk-Cena at MITB), and should be on every wrestling fans must-watch list.
ReplyDeleteIt's an interesting comparison. Trips was #2 in a more successful year/promotion, while Goldberg was the top guy in a slightly less successful year/promotion. Overall I'm guessing peak Goldberg was bigger than peak Trips, but at the end of the day, HHH is obviously the bigger star when you take his entire, much longer run into consideration.
ReplyDeleteAngelo Poffo as a promoter is definitely more important than James Dudley and mid-lefvel face/heel Lanny Poffo/Genius is just as deserving as Koko B. Ware or Johhny Rodz. And inducting those 2, means RANDY FUCKING SAVAGE gets in the Hall of Fame.
ReplyDeleteYeah, let's just pretend that HHH hadn't already won the WWF title before he and Stephanie were anything more than acquaintances.
ReplyDeleteMeh. I don't get the hate for this. It was made before he was married to Steph. Even so, so what. He still had 15 years of working the road, wrestling under bad gimmicks, and working his ass off. I could have done without the Goldberg shit but the "this business" part amd questioning why people want to be in the business was legit. Also, who know what he said to them off camera.
ReplyDeleteThis is a shocking turn of events! I was going to tell you to get thee to Netflix and watch his DVD, but the bastards over there seem to have taken it off.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it was pretty obvious he was hamming it up for the show.
ReplyDeleteYup. Who knows what was really said off camera. He was essentially playing the "grizzled veteran hardass" role here for tv.
ReplyDeleteLanny Poffo started as a JTTS face who could be relied on to bring a good match to put a guy over. He had a gimmick that most people who watched in the 80s remember (my family still asks about the "guy with the frisbees"). And then he turned heel and became a somewhat memorable JTTS bad guy who beat Hogan by countout on SNME.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Savage somehow convinced WCW to pay Lanny for YEARS without him ever appearing anywhere. For ripping Turner off alone, Vince should put him in.
It seems to me that the Poffo thing is now VInce just being petty. He can justify the Poffo clan being inducted more easily than some others, but Poffo called them out. Stupid and petty.
Hall should go in with Nash, inducting the Outsiders, or throw in the nWo and give Hogan another induction, since he's going to be the host of WrestleMania.
ReplyDeleteAnd let's face it, regardless of how big of a star Goldberg is, everything HHH said was spot-on, and if anybody but him said it this blog would be in complete agreement.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if Kid should get a singular induction, if they just did DX as a group I get it though.
ReplyDeleteIt's pretty tedious watching so many wrestlers hate on guys like Goldberg and Warrior. They were entertaining, the fans loved them and they made their companies (and therefore other wrestlers) a lot of money - isn't that what 'this business' is about? Who cares if they didn't dedicate their lives to wrestling or grow up wanting to be Lou Thesz or Ric Flair. And as for not wanting to work a physical job when injured, in most walks of life that's pretty normal. I think it's actually irresponsible to have a culture where wrestlers are encouraged to 'tough it out' and risk making their injuries worse.
ReplyDeleteI know he's said some weird stuff, but I remember seeing one Warrior interview where he made a lot more sense than all of his critics. He was asked about other wrestlers working long matches, compared to himself working 2 minute squashes after being out of breath from his entrance. His response was something like 'Well the fans were 10 times louder for my entrance and 2 minute squash than anyone else's 20 minute match. Who do you think they wanted to see when they paid for their ticket?'.
And I also don't buy the criticism that him and Goldberg got everything handed to them and only got over because loads of other guys put them over so strongly. Yes that helped a lot but you need to have charisma and a connection with the fans as well. Otherwise, WWE could get anyone to be the next Hogan or Austin.
Martel would be a good supplemental guy to fill out an induction class. I always figured they should have given him an IC title run at some point while he was in the WWF.
ReplyDeleteYea. Say what you will about HHH but the guy was a fucking workhorse for awhile that worked through alot of injuries. It just came across to me as a personal vendetta (didn't hhh and Goldberg have personal heat at this time due to a run in at like an autograph session), but I didn't have a huge problem with any of it.
ReplyDeleteIf Toronto or Vancouver ever get a Wrestlemania, I wonder if WWE will use the opportunity to induct a lot of the top Canadians in wrestling history. Jericho can be the headliner, plus Martel, Earthquake, Christian if he's retired (or Edge & Christian as a team), maybe one of Stan Stasiak/Edouard Carpentier/Whipper Billy Watson as the token old-timer, and in a perfect world, Owen Hart if Martha finally allows it
ReplyDeleteHall and Jake, with at least one being inducted by DDP... Goddamn.
ReplyDeleteHell, put DDP in too. Sure, he was a WCW guy, but fuck it. He earned it.
Extreme Tiger = Better name than 90% of current wrestlers.
ReplyDeleteWhen I had WWE 24/7 I never watched anything to do with ECW. Generic music killed it.
ReplyDeleteThis wasn't "coaching" tho. This was essentially bringing in a guest speaker for 10 mminutes. Also, who knows what he said to them off camera. He was playing a role here for tv it seemed
ReplyDeleteWas this made in 2001 or 2002? If so, he had only been wrestling for about 7 years.
ReplyDeleteWell yeah, that too...
ReplyDelete01 I think. Yea, he broke in wcw in 94. I assumed he had did some years in their developmental or some smaller independent/territory stuff before but yea, 15 might be a stretch
ReplyDeleteI have that shoot interview. You can tell the Warrior was not a big fan of the business and he doesn't remember much about his big matches, but he is pretty frank about his opinions.
ReplyDeleteInduct Savage, Rude, Martel, Demolition, and the Midnight Express. After that, they can induct whomever they want.
ReplyDeleteNothing is great about the Poffo family, but after the Von Erichs got in as a family, Randy decided that he wanted that for his dad and brother as well.
ReplyDeleteSince Randy's death, Lanny has said in interviews
a) The WWE is free to induct Randy and he's not going to protest actively
b) If they do induct Randy, he does not want to be invited, will not attend if asked, and he does not want to be paid.
So really, at this point there's nothing stopping Vince from inducting Randy if he wanted to.
Yeah, but they were on good terms with the Hennig and Guerrero family, so they could have them involved and have a warm moment.
ReplyDeleteLanny has said that if the WWE inducts Randy he doesn't want to be invited or involved in any fashion. So who would accept it and give the speech? I guess they could just show some clips and have someone speak about how great Randy is but...eh.
'Remember people - pretending to be more sincere than everyone else can make a wrestler who is otherwise nothing special into a legend'.
ReplyDeletePretty much what Bageltron said, but with one addendum:
ReplyDeleteBatista has been embarrassing since he returned. He was gassed very early into his appearance at the Rumble, which I think is part of what earned him the spite of the crowd. His program with Del Rio sure as hell isn't impressing anyone, either.
They should at least induct Martel's "Arrogance" vignettes.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's weird that they sell Rude T-shirts as a Legend but he's not in the HOF.
ReplyDeleteShame on those that didn't get the joke.
ReplyDeleteUnless Cena is forced out of the game by injury. Dude's been working hurt since 2008...?
ReplyDeleteThe only time off he's taken has been for surgeries he's rushed back from. People misunderstand how fragile the guy is. He's really not too far off from not being able to get in the ring full time again. This is a GOOD time to make yourself a star. The company might NEED you in a year or two.
Have someone induct jake, have Nash induct hall and have jake and Hall induct DDP together. Would be great.
ReplyDeleteYeah, he wasn't happy with one of the guys's sell job on a punch sequence
ReplyDeleteFOR TWELVE YEARS, no less.
ReplyDeleteThey do wanna space these things out y'know. I'm sure they have no plans of stopping the HOF ceremonies as part of Mania weekend, so they don't exactly wanna blow through everyone an have one class where Moondog Spot is the headliner.
ReplyDeleteWell, no program with Del Rio will impress anyone. That's kind of my point, they don't hate Batista, they hate the shitty booking.
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone should care about dropping "Antonio."
ReplyDeleteWow that makes so much sense that that win should have led to Kofi in the chamber. Christ it writes itself.
ReplyDeleteThey could give out trophies for each win. Or ribbons.
ReplyDeletewhat the hell is with wwe inducting multiple main event inductees in bulk? warrior, jake, and hall (if the rumors are true) all deserve the final spotlight
ReplyDeletethey did it last year with bruno, foley, and backlund. i think bruno might have come through at the 11th hour, but they still had 2 main eventers together in foley and backlund
Jake and Scott Hall are not big enough for the final spotlight.
ReplyDeletehall maaaaaaaaaybe i can see the argument against
ReplyDeletebut that's bs on jake not being final spotlight
Jake was a career midcarder in the WWF, who every once in a while had a big time feud. Ted Dibiase wasn't a final spotlight, why should Jake?
ReplyDeleteI think it was the big bald guy.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the argument for Hall? He never even held the WCW or WWF Championships.
ReplyDeleteDibiase did go on last because they couldn't get Warrior for 24 I think.
ReplyDeleteI edited my post when I realized he was the headliner for 26.
ReplyDeleteWith Foley and Backlund, it was appropriate they go in at MSG. Backlund as headliner would've been a disaster
Is it too much to ask WWE to get the band back together and have Korderas and Ocal with Renee?
ReplyDeleteI guess the problem with using Hall as a headliner is you have to round out the rest of the induction class with guys who were lesser than he was. I do think Hall deserves more than to just be an "undercard" guy though.
ReplyDeleteNah, I respectfully disagree. Even if his assessment was probably correct, it still comes across as bitterness and makes HHH look petty.
ReplyDeleteGranted, my knowledge of the Von Erichs isn't the greatest, but is it safe to say that not one member of the Von Erichs was such a bigger, legendary figure as Savage is compared to the rest of his family?
ReplyDeleteI don't mean this to sound snide, but why would you say Martel has to go in and Waltman shouldn't?
ReplyDeleteWas he the first significantly small guy to make it in WCW or WWF? I know Pillman, Raven, etc were in WCW 1992 but those guys had bodies.
ReplyDeleteAre they actually going to build a physical Hall of Fame someday? Because if they did, I assume they'd make a big fucking deal about it, and maybe Savage is that last big name they're holding off to use for that?
ReplyDeleteHere's my take on Goldberg vs Triple H...
ReplyDeleteWas Goldberg really THAT big of a star in the long run? The way I see it, WCW was the #1 promotion because of the nWo, people were going to shows and tuning in to see the nWo/Sting/etc, and as they're watching they see Goldberg and he gets over - massively over, no doubt. But how many pay per views were sold on Goldberg's back? Don't get me wrong, he was a draw, but for the most part his title defences were mid-card matches, and by the time Goldberg reached the top of WCW, WWE had taken over and really never looked back. Goldberg was still there in 2000 and 2001 and really didn't make much of a difference.
I don't think Triple H was ever as popular as Goldberg was at his peak, but over-all I think Triple H was the bigger star. Triple H isn't the legend on par with Rock and Austin that WWE portrays him to be and they certainly inflate his importance, but I think because of that we kind of forget how good/important he actually was. There doesn't seem to be a happy medium, WWE says he was one of the best of all time and because we know that's an exaggeration we kinda act like he was a nobody who's entire career was forced and inflated.
As the story goes, HHH had made some comments about Goldberg in an interview or on WWF.com or something, and when they were both at a convention Goldberg tried to confront him over it - which seems typical of both of them, Triple H making snide dismissive remarks about someone and Goldberg getting pissed off if someone had something negative to say about him.
ReplyDeleteKISS was alright and belongs in the HOF, but they arent even in my top 10 and Im guessing they arent the favorite band of that many either.....
ReplyDeleteInduct the entire nWo. Everybody. From Vincent to the Harris Twins.
ReplyDeletePunk shouldnt induct them, that would be meh. Hogan is the guy that really should induct those two as he probably knew em best....
ReplyDeleteHe was Katie Vick's illegitimate father.....
ReplyDeleteDuh, he slammed Yokozuna and had a big bus.....
ReplyDeleteStill don't understand the deal with songs like the Demos theme: does WWE not own those rights anymore (which is strange because they were produced in-house supposedly to avoid such issues) or it is simply a matter of not wanting to pay Derringer (and others) for his work?
ReplyDeleteTriple H played an important role being the foil to the Rock's and Austin's of the era but he is not on the level of those guys or of a Goldberg....
ReplyDelete....if you show a non fan pictures of Goldberg and of HHH, Im betting Goldberg gets recognized more. Im betting if ya asked non fans who Goldberg is and who HHH is, more will have heard of Goldberg and know he is a wrestler....
...Goldberg wasnt main eventing PPVs because of two things. The first was politics, the second and even more important was the fact that he was green and couldnt go very long....