First thing's first: if anyone was following the TCW reviews, the reason why you haven't seen one in the last couple of weeks is due to TCW airing "TCW Classics", which is basically rerunning their shows from this time last year. My understanding is that production of current episodes has halted for the time being. I have seen the "classics" episodes, and the in-ring product leaves a lot to be desired, so I will return to reviewing the show when new episodes return.
Now, the thread you have all been waiting for. I present to you the Top 5 February PPV Matches of ALL TIME! You, the BoD Universe, had the opportunity to choose the #1 match courtesy of a poll I had posted about two weeks ago. 233 votes were cast, but we did have a clear cut winner; but let's run down the runners up, shall we, with the Honorable Mention roll.
5. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho vs. JBL vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga - Elimination Chamber Match - No Way Out - 2/17/08.
4. Lex Luger vs. Ric Flair - WrestleWar - 2/25/90.
3. Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker vs. Vader vs. Steve Austin - 4-Man Elimination Match - In Your House: Final Four - 2/16/97.
2. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle - No Way Out - 2/25/01.
1. Cactus Jack vs. Triple H - Hell in a Cell Match - No Way Out - 2/27/00.
Based on voting results, I can see at least one call that people may disagree with in the Honorable Mention roll. To the Top 5, then!
5. Sting/Brian Pillman/The Steiner Brothers vs. Ric Flair/Larry Zbyszko/Barry Windham/Sid Vicious - WarGames Match - WrestleWar - 2/24/91.
14. 91-02-24 WarGames (WrestleWar) by puropwgwwestuff
WarGames makes the list! This is one of the more notorious ones, thanks to Sid and Pillman.
4. Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar - No Way Out - 2/15/04.
Here we have one of the more feel-good moments in the last 10 years, as Eddie Guerrero finally gets established as a top guy, and reaps the rewards. Brock was headed to infamy as the guy who quit, but we all know that "I quit" in wrestling is never really "I quit".
3. Jushin Liger vs. Brian Pillman - SuperBrawl II - 2/29/92.
09. 92-02-29 Jushin Liger vs. Brian Pillman... by puropwgwwestuff
One of the greatest PPV openers of all time, and it really helped establish Pillman as a good worker, as he hung with Liger the whole way. Not exactly an underrated match, but it certainly is a forgotten one amongst this list.
2. Steve Austin vs. Triple H - 3 Stages of Hell Match - No Way Out - 2/25/01.
No Way Out 2001 Triple H vs Stone Cold Steve... by EmilMoeller
This was a truly awesome PPV from top to bottom. But the highlight was this match, a masterpiece between two hated rivals. Austin was fresh back from neck surgery, and a Royal Rumble win. Triple H had just gone through 2000 on a famously good run at the top of the card. It gave #1 a run for it's money for a while, but it's still a favorite among you, the BoDers.
1. Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair - Chi-Town Rumble - 2/20/89.
03. 89-02-20 Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Chi... by puropwgwwestuff
The BoDers have spoken, and you voted this match #1, with 68 of the 233 votes. The first of a trilogy of classics from Steamboat and Flair in 1989. Steamboat had made a surprise return to the NWA after leaving the WWF after WrestleMania IV and taking time off to be with his family. Flair.....was Flair. A contrast between the family man vs. the jet flying, limousine ridin', kiss stealin', wheelin' dealin', son of a gun.
Thank you for your participation, and we'll have another list next month for March, where I will break up Wrestlemania between March and April.
Now, the thread you have all been waiting for. I present to you the Top 5 February PPV Matches of ALL TIME! You, the BoD Universe, had the opportunity to choose the #1 match courtesy of a poll I had posted about two weeks ago. 233 votes were cast, but we did have a clear cut winner; but let's run down the runners up, shall we, with the Honorable Mention roll.
5. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho vs. JBL vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Umaga - Elimination Chamber Match - No Way Out - 2/17/08.
4. Lex Luger vs. Ric Flair - WrestleWar - 2/25/90.
3. Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker vs. Vader vs. Steve Austin - 4-Man Elimination Match - In Your House: Final Four - 2/16/97.
2. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle - No Way Out - 2/25/01.
1. Cactus Jack vs. Triple H - Hell in a Cell Match - No Way Out - 2/27/00.
Based on voting results, I can see at least one call that people may disagree with in the Honorable Mention roll. To the Top 5, then!
5. Sting/Brian Pillman/The Steiner Brothers vs. Ric Flair/Larry Zbyszko/Barry Windham/Sid Vicious - WarGames Match - WrestleWar - 2/24/91.
14. 91-02-24 WarGames (WrestleWar) by puropwgwwestuff
WarGames makes the list! This is one of the more notorious ones, thanks to Sid and Pillman.
4. Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar - No Way Out - 2/15/04.
Here we have one of the more feel-good moments in the last 10 years, as Eddie Guerrero finally gets established as a top guy, and reaps the rewards. Brock was headed to infamy as the guy who quit, but we all know that "I quit" in wrestling is never really "I quit".
3. Jushin Liger vs. Brian Pillman - SuperBrawl II - 2/29/92.
09. 92-02-29 Jushin Liger vs. Brian Pillman... by puropwgwwestuff
One of the greatest PPV openers of all time, and it really helped establish Pillman as a good worker, as he hung with Liger the whole way. Not exactly an underrated match, but it certainly is a forgotten one amongst this list.
2. Steve Austin vs. Triple H - 3 Stages of Hell Match - No Way Out - 2/25/01.
No Way Out 2001 Triple H vs Stone Cold Steve... by EmilMoeller
This was a truly awesome PPV from top to bottom. But the highlight was this match, a masterpiece between two hated rivals. Austin was fresh back from neck surgery, and a Royal Rumble win. Triple H had just gone through 2000 on a famously good run at the top of the card. It gave #1 a run for it's money for a while, but it's still a favorite among you, the BoDers.
1. Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair - Chi-Town Rumble - 2/20/89.
03. 89-02-20 Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Chi... by puropwgwwestuff
The BoDers have spoken, and you voted this match #1, with 68 of the 233 votes. The first of a trilogy of classics from Steamboat and Flair in 1989. Steamboat had made a surprise return to the NWA after leaving the WWF after WrestleMania IV and taking time off to be with his family. Flair.....was Flair. A contrast between the family man vs. the jet flying, limousine ridin', kiss stealin', wheelin' dealin', son of a gun.
Thank you for your participation, and we'll have another list next month for March, where I will break up Wrestlemania between March and April.
Bullshit list if it doesn't include Steiners vs Sting/Luger. Also HBK/Owen should replace number 5 on the honorable mention list.
ReplyDeletemaybe that's b/c steiners vs luger/sting occurred in may
ReplyDeleteI think we need a poll to figure out if we all believe in this poll.
ReplyDeletethrow the results together into a poll pot
ReplyDeleteWhat??? I'm starting to lose faith here. Cactus and HHH HIAC was good but it's not top 3. Steiner vs Sting Luger should be on here, pretty high imo.
ReplyDelete"2. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle - No Way Out - 2/25/01'
ReplyDeleteah, where hebner once again proves he's a shitty ref by fucking up the finish
and while it may not be among the elite, the booker t mini-marathon against martel and then saturn at superbrawl viii is pretty memorable
Stranger, what were the original choices again. There was an obvious choice iirc
ReplyDelete'Steiner vs Sting Luger should be on here, pretty high imo'
ReplyDeletesee below
No love for Alex Wright vs. Paul Roma from SuperBrawl V? Career-defining match right there. :P
ReplyDeletedefined the end of roma's career, amiright
ReplyDeleteWhy not do it just to sell 1.3, break all the records, and roll around in all the cash you just made. Have Taker go over and the show close with Cena raising Takers hand. Cenas bullet proof, he can lose at WM and not be hurt. Comparing it to the Bray alternative, Cena wrestling a close loss to Taker in the final match makes him look infinitely better then winning a midcard match vs Bray
ReplyDeleteThe TCW stuff is confusing to me. The last few episodes I've watched have seemingly been from after The Empire vs. Parker's Posse match. I've seen Matt Riviera standing in the ring talking about being the owner now, but then him being confronted by Tim Storm (who was in The Empire for the match with Parker's Posse). I've seen Greg Anthony as the International Champion, which made sense b/c he beat Scott Phoenix a few weeks ago, but it seems they've announced a tournament for the belt, which didn't seem to make sense to me. And then there is Titan who I thought was trying to win Lilly back after she turned on him....but maybe he was trying to hook up with her for the first time.
ReplyDeleteIt's also possible that the rumor mill is overstating things a bit too, and that Vince more or less told him it was cool to "go home" if he was burnt out. I mean, it's not like they *need* him at the moment.
ReplyDeleteAs long as Brock wears the sombrero again!
ReplyDeleteI'm still wondering if maybe Taker isn't going to be well enough to even do WM this year.
ReplyDeleteWell to be fair, Batista WAS a draw 9 years ago (well 4 but who cares beause SNARK) it that puts him above Daniel Bryan, who was a draw...well, he drew when...ah...does ROH count?
ReplyDeleteFuck, he drew a big rating on his first night back. I don't think the problem is Batista, per se, I think the problem is that they all but buried Bryan at the Rumble and Batista became something of a lightening rod for everyone's anger.
ReplyDeleteI think it's funny that the internet has gone full circle on Lesnar/Taker, from "IT WOULD BE AWESOME IF THEY DID IT" to "There's better matches for both guys" to "ugh, Lesnar could seriously hurt him, not a good idea" and the match was never announced or had a build for it start.
ReplyDeleteIt's never been more than a figment of the internet's imagination.
Cena's been pinned at three Manias, including once by The Miz. I think Cena losing would be more than allowed.
ReplyDeleteWhatever it is it's going to be rushed.
ReplyDeleteWell said. People are misplacing their anger on Batista and management for bringing in Batista. It's still an overall net gain for wwe. Can you imagine the outrage if Batista wanted to come back and Vince said "naw." People would shit all over it
ReplyDeleteAnd it's not like they can't make money off of it, either. They can either hotshot Bryan into the program, giving him *two* of Triple H's guys to go over, or they can go ahead with Batista/Orton (or Brock) at Mania while Bryan gets his match with HHH. Hell, do something like having Bryan/HHH close out the show, then have Batista turn on Bryan the next night on Raw as he's jealous of Bryan stealing his spotlight and ruining his glorious return. Stretch Bryan/Batista out for 2-3 months to the big payoff, and you get multiple big moments with both guys in the main program for months out of the deal.
ReplyDeleteThe Demon vs. The Wall at Superbrawl 2000 or GTFO.
ReplyDeleteDude, they're old episodes from early 2013. They're replaying them. New episodes have not been made.
ReplyDeleteDo you mind if I copy this post for future Punk discussions? Summed up every thought I've ever had on the subject.
ReplyDeleteWell, I don't know that replacing Undertaker with Savage as the title winner at Mania would have been a bad thing, but this is a pretty odd comparison since Savage was still working in a major wrestling promotion while he was gone.
ReplyDeleteYep, 90% of HHH bashing are either propaganda or straight up lies. Including Hunter being a 3 time champ before even hooking up with Steph in real life.
ReplyDelete*Upvote for last sentence.*
ReplyDeleteThey should just hire Punk back and then give him a new heel gimmick where he's a skateboarder who never actually rides his skateboard, but he carries it to the ring and hits his opponents with it when the ref isn't looking. Then his opponents could tell the ref that he hit them and Punk would just act like he didn't hit them. This would also come with a built in angle where his opponents accuse him of not actually being able to ride the skateboard, so Punk acts like he's about to ride it and prove them wrong, but then he comes up with different excuses not to do so.
ReplyDeleteCould you guys imagine if Sheamus accused Punk of not being able to ride his skateboard, so then Punk acted like he was going to ride it in order to prove Sheamus wrong, but then at the last second he declared that he wasn't wearing the right shoes? HEAT!!!
When he turns face, that moment where he actually DOES ride the skateboard (maybe even does a trick) would get a tremendous pop. And then he would stop using his skateboard as a weapon unless his opponent cheats first. Like if Alberto Del Rio tries to his him with a chair, but could block the chair with his board, and then deliver a clothesline while riding the board. Cowabunga!!!
No TNA on my lists because I haven't watched much TNA from the get go. Undertaker/Angle was a very good match, in my opinion, but this was a month jammed with good matches.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing he means the 1998 Rumble and WM 14.
ReplyDeleteTrying out various euphemisms for intercourse is one of my many gimmicks.
ReplyDeleteYeah, 'Taker/Angle was great. One of Angle's last great matches ever IMO, and an overlooked classic.
ReplyDeleteThat was awesome.
ReplyDeleteWhere is TCW, and how do I get them to make new episodes. #haveFCPwilltravel
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, two of those pins were in the service of setting up a program with the Rock, the one guy who is/was still on speaking terms with the WWE and could conceivably draw more money for the WWE than Cena could by himself, and you'd have a hard time calling one of them really clean.
ReplyDeleteVince won't job Cena if he doesn't have to or doesn't see money in it. I'm not sure he sees the money in Cena/Taker. I'm not sure I do.
I like the intensity, but "I'm told not to be so good" set off about 18 different RUSSO WORKSHOOT alarms, because everyone knows what that means.
ReplyDeleteAnd it's also hard to take him seriously when he talks about how he always wins and always outperforms everyone because if that were true in kayfabe, he wouldn't be jobbing left and right.
Like I said, great delivery and intensity, but I would have preferred that intensity applied to material like "you know what? I don't know what this rut I'm in is about, but fuck it. I'm gonna make some changes and 2014 will be the year of Dolph Ziggler."
The other part of this is that Wrestlemania is not for the dedicated fan.
ReplyDeleteThe diehards get tossed a bone or two, but Wrestlemania is for the people who come and go. Vince chooses to promote people like Batista, people the casual fan remembers from "back when they still watched," in hopes of getting those people back into the product.
There's no reason to appease the diehards because the diehards are gonna watch anyway. Vince has your money already. Kevin Nash hit the nail right on the head when he said the average disappointed smark post-PPV analysis is "that was the worst PPV ever and I'll never order another one until next month."
WM is Vince's one surefure shot at mainstream appeal a year and as much as I like Bryan and don't really care about Batista, Batista's a bigger name and can draw more casual eyes onto the product.
At a point, maybe. At this point though I think Bryan is easily the biggest draw in the company. People might come back for Wrestlemania and seeing some of the "old" guys, but you also pick up on who the crowd is into, and right now anyone turning on WWE television gets the impression that Bryan is the man and that the crowd loves him.
ReplyDeletePlus, Bryan has more mainstream appeal than anyone else at the moment too.
Yeah, but to get those people who don't watch to watch and see what a big deal Bryan is, you need to draw them in in the first place. Bryan isn't doing it on his own.
ReplyDeleteAnd Bryan has very, very little mainstream appeal.
And Trips' match with him at WrestleMania 22 didn't?
ReplyDeleteThat is hilarious considering Dayton was the only town to give him a babyface reaction so far.
ReplyDeleteI've always considered the 3 Stages HHH/Austin match to be a tad overrated, but the overwhelming consensus is that it is an all time classic.
ReplyDeletethis *very* burger king?
ReplyDeleteI didn't mean say that word for word, you know.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you can cut a promo that's nothing but gibberish if your delivery and intensity are on point and it will captivate an audience.
That's what happens when you bring someone back in a building that holds 5,000-10,000 less people than the arenas you normally run. Ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteWill Farva now start posting about who is the better three point shooter, Dell Curry or Kyle Korver?
ReplyDeleteYou could also ask why people who leave the company are buried for turning on the company that made them or because it shows their lack of love for the business but Batista took off for four years simply because he felt like it, trashed the product while he was gone, and then when he's good and ready to return he's immediately on top.
ReplyDeleteAt the very least put him on television and get a sense how the fans feel about him before you assume that all the people who have been cheering Bryan and following his quest to regain the WWE Championship will be just as happy to see that jacked up dick-head be the hero instead.
Only if the popular opinion is so blinded bc their guy can sell a running knee well. It's curry fwiw, by far
ReplyDeleteIf i'm not mistaking, he had originally given his notice for WM 26, but then agreed to stay 2 more months for rematches with Cena right? I wonder if that was appreciated by WWE, and allowed him to finish on "extra good terms".
ReplyDeleteI went over this before but if you actually watch Shawn's heel run he got the piss beat out of him in every match and either won because someone set his opponent on fire or because of DX interference...he didn't even beat Vader clean on Raw and actually lost to Shamrock by DQ after giving him the visual submission.
ReplyDeleteNot exactly Triple H never showing fear or concern before cleanly beating the good guy.
Unrelated but Chikara just Tweeted this
ReplyDeletehttp://ow.ly/i/4sWix
I swear JAN '98 WCW had a "Fantasy Wrestling" roster at this time:
ReplyDeleteHogan, Hall, Beefcake, Hall, Nash, Harlem Heat, Flair, Bulldog, Henning, Mysterio, Goldberg, Hart Foundation, Sting, Luger, Steiner Brothers, DDP, Ultimate Warrior, Big Show, Jericho, Malenko, Benoit, Guerrero, Konnan, Raven, Piper, Arn, Savage, Syxx, Valentine, Saturn, Duggan, Martel, Finlay, Big Bossman, Haku, Chris Adams, Eaton, Mike Rotundo, Marty Jannetty, Barbarian, Smash, Mike Enos/Wayne Bloom...
Who I miss holy shit?
I dunno, in hindsight it does kind of feel like the 23 match was a bigger deal than the 22 match, but then WM 23 felt like a much bigger deal than WM 22 (which is a pretty damn forgettable Mania in general) altogether. Either way, it's at least true that HHH tried hard to put Cena over and cement him as the top guy.
ReplyDeleteAfter watching today's National Pro Wrestling Day show I now care about all of this much, much less because the show was awesome and CHIKARA IS BACK!!!
ReplyDeleteFunny how a show that's suppose to be a celebration of 30 years of WM is turning into a clusterfuck more and more.
ReplyDeleteThey should consider themselves lucky that the show is going to be on the network.
So any one want to guess which wrestler sent in the anonymous letter? My guess is Del Rio or Miz.
ReplyDeleteIt's about time Miz got some kind comeuppance for Punk always shitting on him.
ReplyDeleteright here in [insert city here].
ReplyDelete*thumbs up*
On CM Punk's DVD, didn't Miz show up as a talking head praising Punk and later on Punk bashes him? That had to have been embarrassing. Or am I imaging it?
ReplyDeleteI was really defending Shawn more than jumping on Hunter, but I was talking more recent years Hunter who laughs and smirks off everything. In Evolution he'd show fear - clearly win most of the time, but he'd show fear on the go home show at least.
ReplyDeleteWe Want Flair!
ReplyDeleteWhile also pointing out that the fans boo him because he's just not a very good wrestler...
ReplyDeleteI for one have been entirely consistent in my disinterest for that match.
ReplyDeleteThis is true.
ReplyDeleteHow much of a draw is Batista though? He main evented 1 Wrestlemania. Nothing he did since then was considered big enough to be "the" match at Wrestlemania. He was the top face on the B-show - actually he was moved to the B show because he wasn't as good a choice for the A-show as Cena was. Eventually the fans turned on his stale act...
ReplyDeleteI don't have the numbers so I don't know the answer, but did people watch Smackdown to see Batista? Or did they see Batista because they were watching Smackdown?
Maybe we'll get a "deal with it" chant at the Superbowl.
ReplyDeleteThanks, I'm starving and now I want Burger King.
ReplyDeleteIt's always been that way. And to be honest, Trips is right up there with Punk when it comes to "guys who blur the line between kayfabe and real-life".
ReplyDeleteTo me this comes back to why I support Punk - what does someone have to do to become one of the guys? He puts on great matches, he works hurt, he can be the most popular guy on the roster or the most hated, depending on what you need, even Undertaker thought enough of his work to allow him to be the guy to carry him to a good match at Wrestlemania....but come Wrestlemania time he's pushed aside for a guy who was a secondary big deal years ago - and it's been longer than 4 years since Batista's been his most popular because he left as a heel which was the result of fans tiring of his good guy challenging for the title in between injuries act.
ReplyDeleteIn reality I think in terms of being a draw Batista's closer to Punk than he is to The Rock. Bringing Batista back feels like a slap in the face - it's like saying we're actively looking to give this spot to anyone BUT you.
Fuck I always hated those metal bastards.
ReplyDeleteIf the story from summer slam was DB getting his revenge on the authority culminating with an epic win for the title at wm, it would have drawn but the lack of long term booking nowadays doesn't give him a chance.
ReplyDeleteRemember that Batista's drawing power was the result of long term booking to win the title and beat HHH.
I agree that 'Mania 23 definitely had a bigger atmosphere than 'Mania 22 (which is funny since IIRC 22 was the one whose tagline was "Big Time" or something like that), but to me, HHH/Cena was much more of a "cement the new face" match than Shawn/Cena (hey, that rhymes with John Cena!) was.
ReplyDeleteCome back? Yes. Come back and be promised to be the top face without checking in with the fans to see how they felt about that first? No.
ReplyDeleteShawn also helped give Jericho some credibility after HHH squashed him repeatedly.
ReplyDeleteYeah, in retrospect that was a pretty one sided feud - Jericho blinded him and punched his wife in the face and then won the blowoff match in a ladder match, which was portrayed as being Shawn's speciality.
ReplyDeleteNope, it happened.
ReplyDeleteFor as much imput Punk had on the DVD, I can't believe he didn't object to Miz being a talking head. I guess he was too busy sorting out what shitty Punk bands to feature.
Yes but long-term booking is the way to go if you want to ensure the best chance of what you want to happen happening in the end.
ReplyDeleteShort term booking is the way to go if you just want to say you tried.
If the rumble does a good buyrate, is it because of Batista or that fans wanted to see Daniel Bryan win it?
ReplyDeleteA correct one.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, who knows. Punk I'm sure rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. They were probably excited to bad mouth him
I'm not saying he's a guaranteed buyrate or anything, but the ratings spike for his return proves his name got eyes on the show that otherwise might not watch. Now, could it be that people who aren't viewers anymore tuned in to see what the deal was, so his "durrrrrrr DEAL WITH IT" promo and went "oh, fuck this?"
ReplyDeleteSure, but you don't know that's what's going to happen until to pull the trigger and see.
I don't want to sound like a fanboy or anything but Austin should have gone over Triple H there.
ReplyDeleteI have as well. The only good match they ever had was an overbooked gimmick match that covered for the total lack of chemistry with the gimmick and massive amounts of blood.
ReplyDeleteI have literally zero desire to watch Taker do his MMA-lite offense to a guy who could legit snap Taker's head off his neck in an actual MMA bout and then go over (because there's no way Lesnar wins).
True, I guess what I see as the biggest mistake in all of this was booking him to win the Rumble and headline Wrestlemania on the assumption people would cheer him like it's 2006.
ReplyDelete29% for Steamboat/Flair - the other 71% split between 9 other matches.
ReplyDeleteArkansas. Bring your banjo.
ReplyDeleteIf it does a bad buyrate, it's because "Nobody" wants to see Batista. If it does a high buyrate, it's because of the guy who was never advertised as a participant in the Rumble in the first place.
ReplyDeleteWhich evidently Booker wasn't even supposed to win until he caused Martel to tear his ACL on a botched hiptoss.
ReplyDeleteHHH "Squashed" Jericho zero times actually. All matches were close and competitive.
ReplyDeleteAnd HHH won all of them.
ReplyDeleteWas this the infamous Wrath/Jericho match where they completely botched the door spot that JEricho talked about in his book?
ReplyDeleteYes.... Yes he did. It's called winning a feud. doesn't mean he squashed or buried him though.
ReplyDeleteHe just always found a way to find his way back to Jericho and beat him.
ReplyDelete"the anonymous letter"
ReplyDelete???
Yeah, but if you're a standoffish dickhead who sits in the corner, actively avoids conversation with people and comes off as "cooler than the room," I doubt you'd care if people take your side when shit goes sideways.
ReplyDeletePoor Jericho, cut at the knees and only being a 6 time world champ and financially set for life, and a surefire hall of famer... Damn that HHH! *Shake harder, boy!!*
ReplyDeletewait, punk left?
ReplyDeleteall this time, i've been calling him krandle!!!
Either Scott did not watch the video, or his distress about Bryan has crippled his ability to distinguish between fiction and reality much like the original E-mailer. =)
ReplyDeleteDAN-IEL BRY-AN DAN-IEL BRY-AN
Scorpio wrestled himself for 20:00.
ReplyDeleteYou're not taking this seriously....
ReplyDeleteAlso, where's Johnny B Badd v .Jimmy Garvin?
87.3% of statistics are made up on the spot.
ReplyDelete"And he once drew nine years ago, so that makes him a main event guy today. "
ReplyDeleteJust occurred to me: Did you have the same attitude when the Rock came back after more than a decade and got rocketed into the main event? ;)
It would have made more sense for HHH to go over if we got more of the Austin/HHH feud after Wrestlemania like we were supposed to.
ReplyDeleteI don't get why they have a guy returning after eight years off with three matches a year and are CONSISTENTLY putting him in rematches of matches he had a decade ago.
ReplyDeleteThe whole point of bringing Batista back, one would think, is to get Batista vs. Lesnar now.
Bret Hart made his return in Dayton and the crowd was just fine.
ReplyDeleteMiz
ReplyDeleteWhile Benoit mostly worked the midcard as champion, I thought he did a terrific job as champion. He was having good matches every week and even his promos improved, but yeah, the guy was sent to the midcard after he lost it and sadly, was never considered a main event threat again. Not even for the Smackdown title.
ReplyDeleteIt's the only singles match they ever had so it must be.
ReplyDeleteIt was a "Special Main Event Match..."
ReplyDeleteSo who will be the new greatest wrestler of all time who never signed a paycheck from McMahon?
ReplyDeleteHBK/Owen is one of the best matches ever, though that's probably my hardcore pro-HBK/Owen bias talking.
ReplyDeleteAlso, #5 fucking sucked, just for the blood capsules littered on the rings alone, never mind the botched finish.
Actually the stip of that match was "the last encounter between Austin and HHH". And the most insane part? It was.
ReplyDeleteThat reminds me that I should maybe do an all-time worst list.
ReplyDeleteNo love for Kurt Angle vs. Taker from NWO 2006?
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Owen/HBK is missing is just wrong. And I agree with Scott's review, had that match not been for the WM title shot Owen should have gone over with the enziguri (take a shot! Wait, that wasn't an ROH match so the enziguri drinking game doesn't apply. Fuck it, take a shot anyway, and dedicate it to Owen).
ReplyDeleteTough call. There were quite a bit of good matches to consider. This is the third list I've done, and each one has gotten harder when it comes to what to keep and what to cut. But this list is one guy's opinion, with #1 being voted on by everyone else.
ReplyDeleteI'm just gonna leave this here: 6 months ago? Would people be pumped for a Batista return? 80% at least would day yes. It sucks it coincides with Bryan being hot buy hey, you don't negotiate returns within 24 hours and the guy just then shows up on your tv. At the time it was a decent decision by vince.
ReplyDeleteA WWE wrestler wrote a letter to F4W crying about fans crying about Bryan.
ReplyDeleteYea, but that can't be interpreted as a Pro Daniel Bryan argument so we are going to ignore that.
ReplyDeletePS...I can't wait for someone to say "well I didn't want the Rock to come back."
The letter I'm talking about had nothing to do with Punk. Let it go.
ReplyDeleteAh. Read the report wrong. Thought you were referencing a source on the 2nd article.
ReplyDeleteThe two omissions that people are noting are UT/Angle and HBK/Owen. I don't disagree with the statement that it's wrong not to include HBK/Owen, but damn, there were a lot of good matches to go through, that something GOOD was bound to be cut.
ReplyDeleteMAH BAD
ReplyDeletePretty much. He didn't have much of a career in WCW anyway. Hadn't Pretty Wonderful broken up?
ReplyDeleteYeah, like he's not saying this kinda shit in the back with a smirk on his face.
ReplyDeleteAs I said below, I'm a huge mark for both guys (they're my 2 all-time favorite wrestlers), so I'm kind of biased.
ReplyDeleteI'm not all that crazy about Flair-Steamboat. They're al great but its not something I'm going to watch while I'm doing cardio at my house.
ReplyDeleteI'd put Austin-HHH at one but otherwise good list and well written.
Yes. I also realize the guy has stayed on top ever since and has unprecedented stroke in the company since marrying her for real. By most accounts, wasn't HHH "cheating on Chyna" in real life with Steph in '99?
ReplyDeleteFebruary does have some good wrestling, it'd be fun to come up with a list of best and worst wrestling in terms of work rate.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention 3 time champ before getting over as a main eventer too. Dude totally deserved a run on top and was historically awesome late 99 thru early 01, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking anything past 2001 warranted the level he has remained on ever since. He got to a certain point on merit, and a certain point based on marrying well.
ReplyDeleteBravery points, no doubt.
ReplyDelete"You ever made love to a man?"
"You want to?"
I'm not crazy about it either. It's not overrated, exactly, I don't disagree that it's a ***** match, but it's just not my style.
ReplyDeleteQuick worst top 5:
ReplyDelete1. Zeus vs. Abby
2. New Jack vs. Mustafa
3-5 don't really matter at this point, right?
I feel the same why and I'm not sure why. I'm guessing its partly because I was too young to be watching at the time and partly I just prefer Austin to either of those guys.
ReplyDeleteBig Show maybe? Defends Rey, defends period he was put front and center again. Around long enough to name drop Brawler (actually, that I agree with btw, they knew by that point the crowd was pissed, why sacrifice Rey when he's barely gotten any traction on his return and will just set more people against him)
ReplyDeleteThis is kind of like making the same comparison between Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart in 1993. Sure, Bret had not "drawn" yet, but at some point you have to push someone new and commit. Saying one set of guys were "proven draws" as a rationale for not pushing someone new is exactly what WCW used to do
ReplyDeleteNot Big Show, it would be beneath him. That letter screams insecurity.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to add good call on Daily Motion. YouTube used to have a ton of old PPVs in full but it looks like WWE swiped most of them up in recent weeks.
ReplyDeleteI didn't think much of anyone cared about Batista since he left.
ReplyDeleteI know it's because I'm too young. I started watching in 1995, and I was mostly an ECW fan from the start. I can appreciate a good technical match, but that style doesn't really entertain me. I want to see some violence, or some highspots, or at some stiffness besides chopping the shit out of each other (Joe/Kobashi, I'm looking at you here. And for the record, that match DID suck.)
ReplyDeleteForfty percent of all people know that.
ReplyDeleteAh, HHH then...kidding. Definitely sense the insecurity but would Miz really be defending the product so staunchly at this point? He's got to be bummed the way he's been used since his cup of coffee at the top. Plus dropping "awesome" into the letter would be a weirdly Crazy Days, Crazy Nights style blind item b.........hm, actually I'm on board. Writes bullshit letter backing creative and the expertise of tptb, drops hint it's Miz doing it, monster push to follow?
ReplyDeleteYou'd be wrong. Go back and look at the threads from Batista being rumored to be coming back. It's all positive
ReplyDeleteForfty perecent of all people know that.
ReplyDeleteI'm all for working in new guys and what not, but I think Cena-Wyatt would be a good post-WM feud is all. Do an extended feud and make a name out of Bray. Use WM for the Big Match
ReplyDeleteThat's a plurality. A majority would be half plus one.
ReplyDeleteCena is bulletproof. He could take a pin and do the respect handshake thing to close the show.
ReplyDeleteHe's turned from heel, to face, to tweener and back about 14 times since last summer.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Especially since this is THE Wrestlemania to sell the Network and transition them into a new era of "ppv/network" hybrid stuff. Why wouldn't you use the single biggest match they have left?
ReplyDeleteThe lack of good grammar and overflowing disdain bubbling over for fans in that letter is worthy of reciprocal disdain. The "shut up and enjoy it" attitude is a slap in the face to crowds that do pay money to attend the show and pay for that wrestler's paycheck. Miz and Del Rio are good guesses.
ReplyDeleteOddly enough, guys who get shit on a lot--Cena, Orton, and Sheamus--would not be on my list of guesses. They seem to "get it" from both a mark and smark perspective. Judging by the bad grammar and his overly kind treatment of fans, Sandow is also disqualified from the list of suspects.
You lost me at "that's". But, 68 for Flair-Steamboat, 53 for Austin-HHH.
ReplyDeleteYeah, 4 out of 5 of these vids were from DM. Also, the embed code from DM doesn't work in Chrome for some reason. You just get a big blank space where the video should be.
ReplyDeleteThem not knowing Brocks role is so indicative. He has a certain amount of days, they've been using them up the last few weeks, but they don't know where it's going? Just run a show where he f5s someone in every segment, until Taker is the only one who can stop the destruction.
ReplyDeleteA majority means at least more than half.
ReplyDelete"That's" is a contraction for "that is," in reference to the 29 percent for Steamboat-Flair.
ReplyDeleteDisagree. HHH won his third WWF Championship right before the feud with Foley. While he obviously benefited a great deal from that feud, I think there's a bit of revisionism regarding his main event run prior to that.
ReplyDeleteHe wasn't super-over during mid '99 and during the summer when he first got his push, but by the autumn (when he defeated Stone Cold and when DX re-formed), the guy was over. Not to an insane degree, and not as over as he would be later, but if you re-watch the angle with Vince/Stephanie/Test, he was getting perfectly acceptable crowd reactions. It was only during his first championship run that he pretty much wasn't over at all, and to be fair, his push was somewhat botched.
Also, regarding his post-2001 run, let's not forget that after Austin and Rocky left, he was the biggest full-time draw (him and Lesnar) left on the roster. That alone justified his status at the top of the card.
Ooooohhhh, I get it. I was just going with the popular vote, rather than the electoral college.
ReplyDeleteIt's drawing well partly because of the dipping in the 401k. Rock, Brock, UT, and now Batista. I have no doubt they've been throwing money at HBK also.
ReplyDeleteWith Cena/Rock on top last year the buyrate was X. If they ran Bryan vs whoever they buyrate may be X/2 or X/3. My point is they are in a position to take that kind of hit now so they would be wise to take it in order to set things up for the future.
If they keep going this route they will have two major issues: 1) they won't have anyone that can pop a number and 2) they won't have any new stars to carry the company.
I'll allow it.
ReplyDeleteBatista wouldn't be either, like I said about Big Show above, it would be beneath them. I doubt they give a shit.
ReplyDeleteHHH didn't squash Jericho. Ever.
ReplyDeleteGot to disagree with part of this boss. Nothing in 99 was based on merit. He was midcard 4 life and they just kept pushing him. The reason he had 3 title reigns was because they kept rebooting his push. How many people would have gotten that many chances in such a short amount of time?
ReplyDeleteNope. Counting the reversed title win, Jericho defeated HHH twice. Obviously, the win-loss record is still greatly skewed in HHH's favour.
ReplyDeleteAs others stated HHH never squashed him. He just made sure fans went away knowing that Jericho was not on his level.
ReplyDeleteIn 2002. Their on-and-off 2000 feud was probably the best thing to happen to Jericho's career up until that point, even if he ultimately came out on the losing end of it.
ReplyDeleteHe was reasonably over as a main-eventer by the autumn of '99.
ReplyDeletePretty sure Batista tweeted a few months ago about how sick and tired he was about people asking him "When are you coming back?" every day for the past 4 years. So I'd say that a lot of people cared.
ReplyDeleteSurprised this hasn't spurred a bunch of "Undertaker may not be coming back this year" posts on the newzboardz. If they're not sure what to do with Brock, and Cena's in the Wyatt world, and I doubt they'd honor Taker's request to get Bryan, that doesn't leave much
ReplyDeleteJericho was crazy over from the moment he got to the WWE. It wasn't the best thing that could have happened to his career. It was the best thing that did happen to his career.
ReplyDeleteIn 99 HHH was struggling to show the fans he was a main eventer and in 99 Jericho was getting reactions like he was a main eventer.
I get it. My counter is: we just can't assume there are money drawing stars in the fold. It's EASY to say push Dolph and bryan, give them a WM moment and let them be stars. It's not that easy to create stars. To use your analogy, that would be like having a 401 k, amd just investing in unknown amd unproven commodities. Sure that's nice to diversify your portfolio amd give you some nice risk/reward, but you need proven commodities to keep your shit afloat (cena/Batista, et)
ReplyDeleteNo, just no. No way to quantify that so we'll have to disagree. Though I will state the heat he did have was because of every booking trick that existed.
ReplyDeleteI don't quite understand your first paragraph.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with Jericho being more over than HHH in '99. But before his on-and-off feud with Trips that began with the phantom title win, he'd been floundering (from a booking perspective). That feud was the most credible Jericho looked (almost beating HHH at Fully Loaded in their Last Man Standing match despite having an injury going in, and then Trips getting up at 10 before collapsing again) until the feud with Rocky during the Invasion days a year later.
I'm quantifying it by audience reactions. By October of that year, the fans were reacting when he came out and during his promos/matches. They'd been a bit "meh" during the summer, but good booking helped him get over. And then the stuff with Test/Stephanie and later on Foley helped hugely.
ReplyDeleteSome strangely disjointed thoughts in that letter, calling Internet fans "beyond laughable" and "shut up and enjoy it" sentiment while still concluding with "the Pittsburgh crowd was awesome though!" Give me Miz considering the We Love The WWE Universe's Freedom of Expression media programming still seeped out even at the end of a "shut up and enjoy it" letter, lol.
ReplyDeleteHHH vs. Austin 3 Stages of Hell is my favorite match ever. The only real minus was how loudly they were calling spots. But you really can't go wrong with HHH and Austin beating the holy hell out of each other for 40 minutes, and they did a masterful job of selling by the cage match, as they were completely worn out and doing everything in slow motion, but it was still intense as hell. And JR and Lawler were on their A-game from the commentary booth.
ReplyDeleteJust saw it. It's Miz, I'd give odds
ReplyDeleteThere is no guarantee these guys will draw big money. The thing is they are in good enough shape financially to take that chance right now. If it doesn't work they can always hotshot it back to Cena.
ReplyDeleteThe other side to this is the WWE didn't become number 1 by playing not to lose. The risks were calculated but they were risks nevertheless (Hogan, attacking territories, syndicated tv, PPV, Austin etc). Now they are just trying to hold on to the lead instead of playing to win.
I think it worked both ways. Obviously, it made sense for the returning hero to defeat the homicidal villain who took a year off his career. Then again, this match helped fuel the story of Austin having lost a step and not being able to keep up with guys like Trips and Rocky anymore, which led to his heel turn.
ReplyDeleteYeah, over thought it at first. Didn't think he'd toss in "awesome" as it'd be a give away, without realizing he wants the office to know he's kissing their ass
ReplyDeleteIn the first paragraph I'm just stating that if Jericho got the push HHH did he would have went a whole lot farther.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that helped HHH become a main eventer was the same thing that killed Jericho: the booking.
My issue is why take a red-hot guy that is ready to main event and kill his heat? And why take a guy who fans don't take as a main eventer and keep pushing him down fans throats?
Maybe. That's a big "what if" situation. We'll never know for sure.
ReplyDeleteI still maintain that Jericho's feud with HHH was the best thing to happen to his (Jericho's) career up until then.
I'll give you that, but back to my original question for a sec. What did HHH do to merit all that he got? They turned heaven and earth to get this guy over and it was terrible to sit through also. You had one of the most over guys in the history of the biz taking a back seat so they could spend an ungodly amount of time getting this guy over.
ReplyDeleteIt happened and it was hilarious.
ReplyDeleteJericho comes in on fire. They kill his heat with horrible booking. Then they throw him a bone with the HHH feud. My question is why pull this "learn how to work" crap on him in the beginning? He was ready to make them money from day 1.
ReplyDeleteHHH showed fear quite frequently during the Evolution days. Not sure what you're talking about. And a LOT of his victories were after run-ins/sledgehammer shots etc.
ReplyDeleteAgainst Me! is not shitty, sir. Especially their last album, Transgender Dysphoria Blues is incredible.
ReplyDeleteBatista was never a draw.
ReplyDeleteThat's a fair point, and something that's still applicable today (e.g. Ryback getting over a year or so ago and then getting a long PPV losing streak).
ReplyDeleteThen again, being unsafe/a bad worker IS something you should try to overcome, and Jericho, to his credit, seemingly did. Also, as over as he was, I don't think WWF ever pushed guys super-fast right off the bat back then. Lesnar's the first super-fast push I remember. There were a lot of over midcarders in 1999/2000, and I think that getting a feud with the #2 guy at the time (in Austin's absence) less than a year after debuting was a pretty good deal for Jericho.
Didn't have a problem the first time he faced Cena. It was still a novel concept. By the time Raw 1000 rolled around I was over him. When he had that match at the Rumble I was throwing stuff at the tv. During the buildup to last years WM I had just had enough.
ReplyDeletetl;dr It was a great thing once but has overstayed it's welcome.
Jericho had been in the business about a decade at that point and worked all over the world. What about his work was so bad? I'm not being facetious, I really don't know what they meant by that.
ReplyDeleteAs far as your other examples, I can understand why they wouldn't rocket push those guys. It's still stupid though cause why even bother pushing them in the first place?
Dont forget Mississippi...banjo still applies.
ReplyDeleteHunter, Hearst and Helmsley.
ReplyDeleteJoe/Kabashi fuckinh kicks ass
ReplyDeleteWhich is why I'm actually down for a Bryan/HHH match, someone who the fans overloves vs someone who the fans over-hates. The crowd would be molten.
ReplyDeleteHe was still pretty damn over, certainly not 2000 over, but there was absolutely no question whether he was ready for the main event by the time the year rolled out, not like we question every freaking guy today unless he has main evented at least 3 wrestlemanias and has titles in the double digits.
ReplyDeletebut surely you save the big title win for Seattle in order to garner that same atmosphere as Money in the Bank '11 in chicago?
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Daniel wins, if the people would still complain. (aka, the 3rd Brock/HHH match, which brock *WON*, but all I hear is that "Brock looked like a bitch", as if the match ended with Brock holding his knee and submitting.
ReplyDeleteI think if they go through with Batista/Orton, theres no way they'll allow it to be the last match on the card. Why would they sabotage a wrestlemania main event if everyone is booing the crap out of the guy who's supposed to be the top babyface for the night?
ReplyDeleteAlso, WWE had a very thin main event roster at the time, and they had run through every combination of Austin/Foley/Taker/Kane/Rock imaginable , and HHH was the closest guy ready to join the main event scene. Would have been crazy not to put him in the mix.
ReplyDeleteTo this day I'm shocked WCW didn't sign Jim Powers and reunite him and Roma under some dumb name like "The Little Ponies" or something.
ReplyDelete