Hi Scott! Long time reader from your wrestleline days in 99. I have a question in regards to The Ultimate Warrior's title run. People always say that his run was killed because Hogan didn't go away. I always felt that he was killed out the gate because the hottest heel at the time was Earthquake, which would have been logical for the champion to be plugged in with the hot heel. Do you think Warrior would have fared better if placed with earthquake rather than a repackaged "serious because I got a haircut" Rick Rude?
KB
Yup, definitely. But part of the problem was that they so thin on the heel side that there really wasn't anyone else for Warrior to face on top. That's why they had to repackage Rude in the first place, even though we had just seen Rude-Warrior in 89. And really, the Hogan-Earthquake feud did big business so it's hard to argue for changing that one. Dibiase and Savage were both fading fast in the midcard so neither of those were any help. Had Undertaker debuted earlier he would have been perfect, or maybe moving up the Jake Roberts heel turn to freshen him up. Actually that probably would have been a hell of a deal. Mr. Perfect flopped on top with Hogan, but maybe if they had held off on breaking his unbeaten streak until he got to Warrior it could have done business? The problem becomes that they were lacking in top heels that Hogan hadn't already destroyed around the horn.
I dunno, it was a bad situation all around.
I think Warrior vs. Perfect could have been a really interesting program. The pinball possibilities from Perfect bumping for Warrior are endless.
ReplyDeleteI'm not really sure how hot Perfect was following WMVI though.
I think the whole problem with Warrior as champion was that he couldn't wrestle a great match more than once a year. They tried everything in his title run. They had him defend against a great worker in DiBiase. They had him defend against a great personality in Rude. They had him team up with the Road Warriors to wrestle the three members of Demolition. None of it worked. Warrior was at his best when he was injecting life into the middle of the show, not closing it - apart from Wrestlemania VI which was more carefully booked and rehearsed than the daily grind would allow for most shows.
ReplyDeleteYou'd think Vince would have found someone to fit "big fat heel of the month" mold from the Hogan years, even if it meant bringing in an outside guy. Ric Rude was a terrible choice for Warrior's 1st feud because it had been done before and because Rude didn't have the "big man" factor against Warrior. Rude was awesome, but it wasn't a good spot for him.
ReplyDeleteI think Warrior vs. Earthquake would've solved a lot of those problems (well, maybe not match quality but 1990 kids would've bought into it). However that meant not having Hogan vs Earthquake. I just find it hard to believe Vince couldn't find any big intimidating heels for Warrior to face.
ReplyDeleteBuilding up Earthquake to feed to Warrior made way more sense. Fresh new champion on top with a relatively new heel to headline SummerSlam '90 with him. Hogan could have worked with literally anyone else. Or REALLY got Earthquake over for Warrior by selling the injuries through SummerSlam. Gives Earthquake more heat, Hogan a break, and gives Warrior the chance to succeed or fail on his own on top of SummerSlam. You can always have Hogan return for Survivor Series with his team of guys against Quake's team (just like we actually got) in order to get his win back.
ReplyDeleteUsing Warrior to avenge Hogan's injury = gold. The kids would've loved it. I know I would. It would again tie Warrior to the still ultra-popular Hogan.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I think history shows us that Hogan wasn't planning to give up that much of his spot so it's moot point.
At the time, I thought that pairing Ultimate Warrior with Rick Rude made perfect sense, as Rude was the only guy to ever beat him up to that point.
ReplyDeletePeople weren't going to be buying Ultimate Warrior as champ for his workrate anyway. He was going to fail or succeed all on the presence of his character...and history tells us how that worked out.
That said, depending upon how far out they knew they were going with Warrior over Hogan, maybe they could have built up Rick Martel as a more credible threat and gone with him? He was a good veteran hand with a history of carrying a wrestling organization and working with a wide variety of wrestlers, and The Model vs Ultimate Warrior might have been an interesting dynamic to work with.
I'm at a loss for Warrior foils. Was Bad News Allen still around? He could at least have been a contrast and everyone knew he was tough.
ReplyDeleteWell it would have been better than Warrior vs Bravo, I'll give you that.
ReplyDeleteBy the end of the Ultimate Warrior's reign, they were getting pretty desperate to find opponents willing to work with him.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUKCgWt0Kno
What about Rowdy Roddy Piper as a heel? The depth of the WWF's 1990 roster and they couldn't muster one credible feud?
ReplyDeleteIt was kind of Cena/Punk-like, wasn't it? Warrior was the WWF Champion but he got to defend against a midcarder second from the top while Hogan's big feud with Earthquake was the main event. Warrior opens Survivor Series, but he gets to close it because he's sharing the ring with Hogan. Then he loses the title to set up Hogan getting the belt back.
ReplyDeleteI don't see the point in putting Hogan/Earthquake on last. People already bought the show, give them Hogan/Earthquake second from top and put Warrior on last so they know he's the main event now.
Warrior's act worked in a grand, over the top stadium wrestling context. I saw him wrestle Flair in front of a quarter full Palace of Auburn Hills and it reeked. They probably could have done something on a major ppv though.
ReplyDeleteWhat's even worse is it was a cage match which logistics wise should be last.
ReplyDeleteThey didn't put Hogan/Earthquake on last.
ReplyDeletePhil tried to go against all odds but ended up in a land of confusion.
ReplyDeleteSo you're right, for some reason I thought Hogan went on last, not sure why that is.
ReplyDeleteExcept for the Rumble Warrior closed out all the PPVs he appeared on while champion.
ReplyDeleteHe would have stood a better chance in the cage.
ReplyDeleteI think that they still had to physically put together the cages back then, so they wouldn't have had time to take it down for more cageless matches.
ReplyDeleteYeah... but Take a Look at Him Now
ReplyDeleteBecause Hogan
ReplyDeleteWell the fact that it had been done before was actually a good thing, since they at least had the story that Rude DID take a title from Warrior before. So it didn't feel like a repeat, but a continuation to the story.
ReplyDeleteFor me, what ruined Warrior's reign was that prior to his title win, he had his own crazy/unique style... But the moment he won at WM 6, he officially turned into Hogan-Lite. His comebacks started becoming nearly identical to Hogan's "Hulk ups". So I just felt we had 2 Hulk Hogans.
ReplyDeletePiper as a heel vs face Warrior might have broken some new grounds in the negative star territory.
ReplyDeleteBut weren't people already getting tired of that formula by that time?
ReplyDeleteThe problem was always going to be that WM6 divided the audience. Even though I have no idea why anyone thought Hogan was cooler than Warrior, there were plenty of people in that camp. And those people were not too keen on going to a show that was headlined by Warrior no matter what.
ReplyDeleteIt happened again in '96 with Bret and Shawn. I was a Bret guy, and there was NO chance of me wanting to go to a show to see Shawn Michaels. However, it was the point that made me start liking heels.
All 2 of them. :P
ReplyDeleteHoly SHIT... Warrior doing a Boston Crab?
ReplyDeleteHe also did it in the Wrestlefest video game.
ReplyDeleteOh man, did I LOVE that game.
ReplyDeleteWarrior vs. a mannequin would've been better than Bravo's odd push as a semi-serious top of the card guy in 1990.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what other potential new guys could have been added to a Warrior feud to help him out- how many guys were locked down in WCW and couldn't be lured away? Like Scott says, most of the then-big Heel acts had been crushed already (Perfect, DiBiase, Savage), and were being put into midcard locations. I get the IDEA of a Rude feud, in that he had proven he could get OK matches out of the Champ, but he was nowhere near ready for that spot- he lacked all credibility as a World Title contender and the fans knew it.
ReplyDeleteIdeally, it would have been smarter for Vince to keep guys like DiBiase & Savage credible, so that it could be big-business to see them against Warrior. But Savage was doing his lamer "Macho King" thing and fucking around with Dusty Rhodes at the time instead.
What a waste of Savage. Im surprised he hung around through it all.
ReplyDeleteJust watched Summerslam '90 a couple days ago... I'd only seen it once in the past, and yeah, Hulk/Earthquake is definitely the more appealing angle. It's almost like Wrestlemania X-8 where the championship match should probably have come before the Hulk Hogan match. Which is sad because Rude was taking some pretty big bumps, and Warrior was being pretty awesome with the intense promos, but they only gave them 10 minutes. But yeah, I was surprised at how fun the show was.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Warrior has he ever responded to the accusation from Bret's book that he ignored a sick kid?
ReplyDeleteThe only reason he main evented Survivor Series was because Hogan was also in the match.
ReplyDeleteWarrior needed smart heels to balance out his brute force. DiBiase was the right idea (Rude was ok, but too soon as everyone else mentioned) but programming him with guys like Perfect, Snake, Savage, Piper, and Martel who could credibly cheat and get away with it (because Warrior's character kinda precluded anybody kicking his ass legitimately), would have been the way to go.
ReplyDeleteI've always wondered if that was the plan because Piper kills Warrior in his commentary for the cage match.
ReplyDeleteProbably the only reason Warrior was on last on that show.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Warrior easily could've tanked on his own merits, the looming Iraq War didn't help matters. Fans wanted their "Real American."
ReplyDeleteBad News Brown, you beer-belly sharecropper. And I think he was long gone around Warrior's title run. (someone call me on this if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% sure.)
ReplyDeleteIt might have been worth signing Vader
ReplyDeleteThe problem there is that Hogan wasn't out of juice at that point, he was still a marketable guy. So it does come across as less 'Warrior is ready' and more 'lets move Hogan sideways.' Warrior's an example of a guy who, considering challengers and all around marketability, wasn't ready. He was Daniel Bryan at Summerslam 2013, a guy who nearly had everything he needed but didn't quite. If they'd held off another year and polished up aspects of his work, and had challengers for him, he'd have been beyond perfect.
ReplyDeleteAs it stands, they rushed him to the top. I mean Warrior vs Flair in 92 would have been a license to print money.
Just to job to Warrior? Put a mask on Jeep Swenson instead and save some money.
ReplyDeleteNo top line babyface in history (Austin, Hart, Cena, Sting) would agree to such an angle. Getting their ass kicked and then getting sloppy second revenge would kill their heat entirely.
ReplyDeleteHe faced Jake at Summerslam 90.
ReplyDeleteMoney is funny that way.
ReplyDeleteHogan was going off to film his movie. So who would you have had as champ if not Warrior? And how would you get there?
ReplyDeleteOh, yeah, the "snake vs. Harlem sewer rat" feud. I'd wiped that abomination from my mind.
ReplyDeleteSting would totally agree to that.
ReplyDeleteOf course, Sting did get his heat killed hardcore, soooo...
I was once told the day is not complete without listening to a Phil Collins song.
ReplyDeleteIt was bad because putting warrior as the man brought a whole bunch of guys to the main event that werent credible.
ReplyDeleteHogan had beat everyone
I remember Warrior's match being in the midcard
ReplyDeleteI always thought that Warrior should have won the title from someone else and then beat Hogan down the road. He faced his ultimate challenge and just had nowhere to go after that.
ReplyDeleteYep, Hogan and Warrior were just so far above the rest of the roster that it wasn't even close. Even during that "Grand finale match of survival", even though they were down 3 on 5 and 2 on 4, there was still zero doubt that they would both easily win.
ReplyDeleteI feel like a legit stable could have been a good threat. Let Heenan go crazy signing guys and go that route instead of just one. Or the heels you mentioned above all make an alliance and band together to take Warrior out.
ReplyDeleteI had just started watching after WMVI and when I started (and maybe Im alone in this) but I thought Earthquake was boring as hell and I really enjoyed Rude as the antagonist. People always talk about how hot Quake was but I never remember seeing it. I didnt really care about him at all until he squashed Damien.
ReplyDeleteFunny that the previous thread we were talking about Sheamus doing the same thing.
ReplyDeleteJust watched the Network version of the HOF ceremony. They edited out Warrior's bit about changing the name back to the WWF.
ReplyDeleteI agree the smart heels were the best opponents for Warrior. Dibiase was a good choice and it made sense that Rude would challenge him, having beat him in the past. They were building up Martel and if Martel had been motivated enough he could have been good foil for Warrior as well. As others have mentioned, there weren't really any new heels that Hogan hadn't already defeated other than Earthquake. The trouble was you still had two top faces in Hogan and Warrior. If Warrior took Earthquake, who would Hogan have feuded with?
ReplyDeletesooooooo pissed the implosion of THQ left that from getting released on XBOX360 a couple years ago
ReplyDeletepretty sure he wont be now.
ReplyDeleteI remember Meltzer mentioning that at the time for the house shows immediately following WrestleMania that Warrior was getting a LOT of boos, so I think there was definitely a little bit of a backlash from the fans to begin with -- even before the anemic booking of his title reign. Then Summer Slam went and did nearly the same number WM 6 did on PPV with the Hogan/Earthquake feud pushed the hardest and I think the writing was definitely on the wall by that point.
ReplyDeleteA few other places reported Warrior getting a lot of boo
ReplyDeleteHeading into 1990, Dave Meltzer reported there were three matches being discussed for the WrestleMania VI maun event slot: Hogan vs. Zeus, Hogan vs. heel Piper and Hogan vs. Warrior. Dave assumed Warrior would turn heel heading into the match.
ReplyDeleteHe quit/was fired pretty shortly after Summer Slam IIRC.
ReplyDeleteDidn't his reign flop ppv and house show wise also?
ReplyDeleteI think he was a lot hotter once he took the IC title and they brought Bobby Heenan on board -- I think it gave him kind of an edge that he was lacking with his pairing with Lanny Poffo.
ReplyDeletePerfect took some great bumps for Warrior in their Survivor Series 1990 match, I imagine it would have been a really good match at least.
PPV wise it'd be hard to say, because the boom ended and buys were falling in general through late 1989. So Hogan's title reigns at that point weren't exactly setting PPV on fire either. The WM VI buyrate was considered a disappointment at the time though oddly enough and sort of a referendum on face vs face main events.
ReplyDeleteAs far as house shows though -- oh yeah, big time. I think the WWF cut down from a three house show cycle (an A, B, and C show) to two during the course of his reign to offset it, but average attendance continued to fall, until recovering somewhat during the post WM 7 period.
And Sting thus got the 'WORST GROUP OF POST TITLE WIN CONTENDERS' ever. Barbarian...
ReplyDeleteWarrior needs a fresh challenger in 1990? That sounds like a job for a heel turned Jim Duggan, tough guy!
ReplyDeleteSavage.
ReplyDeleteJust do the Earthquake angle so that he attacks Hogan backstage. Hogan heroically defends title but loses. Then Hogan comes back at Summerslam and you can do Hogan/Warrior vs Savage/Earthquake. Build to Hogan vs Earthquake at Rumble and Warrior vs Savage. Then at Mania you do Warrior vs Earthquake (Hogan won by count out at Rumble, Warrior wins by pinfall at Mania), and Hogan vs Savage (Hogan wins.) And THEN you d the big Warrior vs Hogan match for Mania 92 with a multi-year push.
Yeah, I think that was a common sentiment at the time -- and also that it'd likely be a very short match, as the smarks of the day could not see in any universe where Hogan/Warrior would put on a watchable match. There was also some talk about bringing Mike Tyson in IIRC.
ReplyDeleteHogan vs Zeus would have been interesting from a business perspective. Summer Slam 1989 was considered a pretty big success on PPV at the time and the NHB movie/match thing did a strong buyrate too after the weak theatrical run.
In the end, I think it was probably way too risky and business exposing though. The match would have been awful, especially since Zeus had only actually worked the three matches in his whole WWF career. I think the Warrior/Hogan angle actually probably had the unintended consequence of giving Hogan a bit of new life and extending the viability of his Hulkamania act by giving it some vulnerability. Funny enough, Warrior beating Savage in the retirement match had kind of the same effect for Savage.
Should have been Savage! Look at the business they did a few months later. Savage was floundering bc the Rhodes feud sucked.
ReplyDeleteYep, I didn't buy Savage as a threat AT ALL during that time. Also, as much as a heat magnet that Sherri was, the fact remained, Savage needed tons of help from a woman to even beat midcarders like Duggan and Hercules. So he had basically zero chance against Warrior.
ReplyDeleteThey should have had someone act as a transitional champion like they did with Koloff beating Bruno and then losing to Pedro Morales, and Backlund losing to Sheiky and then losing to Hogan. They even sorta did the same thing in '88 with Hogan's first reign, then abeyance and then Savage.
ReplyDeleteInteresting points on reviving those acts.
ReplyDeleteHumility. Hogan would have feuded with Humility.
ReplyDeleteI think that was one reason he singled out Cena for doing all the Make A Wish stuff. He's not going to say "I never ignored a sick kid" during HOF but by saying how much he respects Cena it kind of implies he would/did do it too.
ReplyDeleteIt was Vince's fallback on hero champs. Did it with Diesel too. It kind of started with Bruno in a way with the shaking the fists. Backlund would also "snap" on heels and go nuts. Only face champs I can think of until Austin to not Hulk up were Bret and Savage.
ReplyDeleteI LOVE 1990 WWF. Dusty vs. Savage never clicked for whatever reason. I think Piper vs. Savage as the #2 match at WM VI would have been a better choice.
ReplyDeleteSummerSlam '89 was the most bought SummerSlam until 1998.
ReplyDeleteYep, even HBK had the flying forearm/nip-up spot.
ReplyDeleteThe promos alone would have been worth it.
ReplyDeleteYeah but neither did Rude and Savage was a past champion, wouldn't have taken much to put him on Warrior's level. Look at what he did at Royal Rumble 1991...just do that at a SNME or Superstars in the summer, and Warrior/Savage.
ReplyDeleteLike just run this match from MSG at SS 90 and it's all good: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvc1ik_steele-cage-match-randy-savage-vs-ultimate-warrior_sport
Even more insane, there were legit reports from Meltzer in early 1990 that Savage was going to win the title at The Main Event, with Tyson as special ref to set up...Savage/Warrior...and HULK HOGAN vs. MIKE TYSON.
ReplyDeleteHogan didn't win clean at SummerSlam 1990 because the Earhquake feud was doing such good house show business. They basically milked it dry all the way through the 1991 Royal Rumble.
ReplyDeleteAlso worth noting, Warrior's first house show partner after becoming champ was Mr. Perfect, who had just lost to Brutus f'n Beefcake at WrestleMania and hadn't become IC champ yet. I mean, they pretty much set Warrior up to fail in that regard.
When Hogan faced Savage on the Main Event in February 1990, Meltzer & others believed that is exactly what would happen, with Warrior beating Savage for the title. No one thought they'd actually have Warrior beat Hogan.
ReplyDelete"Had Undertaker debuted earlier he would have been perfect..."
ReplyDeleteGod, this would have been so awesome
No Hogan/Warrior? Terrible idea.
ReplyDeleteDid Duggan EVER work heel?
ReplyDeleteI think he might of as part of Team Canada in WCW. During the Duggan eats out of trash cans phase.
ReplyDeleteI think Warrior was doomed no matter what because Hogan wasn't going away and had every intention of getting his spot back eventually, and Warrior (by all accounts) wasn't well-liked by most of the locker room. So I'm guessing that there wasn't a long line of guys looking to put him over in the first place, and backstage politics likely played a role in the opponents that were picked out for him. Savage likely would have done great business with Warrior, Hennig and DiBiase would have consistently dragged good matches out of him no matter what (and likely would have made him a better worker in the process) and feuds with Piper and Jake would have added desperately needed dimensions to his character...and NONE of that benefited Hogan, who needed Warrior to fail so he could come back and "save the day".
ReplyDeleteThose would have been the worst main event matches in wrestling history. Neither guy could wrestle worth a shit.
ReplyDeleteTyson losing to Buster Douglas and losing Tyson at the Main Event was a huge disappointment. Hogan/Tyson eye to eye would have been money.
ReplyDeleteWould have been really good bigger guy matches. Especially if Warrior kept up with that style he had in the Savage retirement match
ReplyDeleteActually, a wild lunatic heel Duggan probably would have been a good opponent for Warrior. Just let them beat the hell out of each other all over the building in crazy-ass brawls every night.
ReplyDeleteI think Duggan worked heel in his early career, pre-WWF, and worked a really vicious style
ReplyDeleteAlso, a heel Duggan would draw insane heat because of how over as a face he was
ReplyDeleteThis lends itself to so much hypothetical insanity. Dueling Duggan-Warrior promos; a possible Stars and Stripes Warrior pontificating on the spirit of America; could have been great.
ReplyDeleteDuggan's blue-collar sensibility vs. Warrior's mysticism? Stuff like that writes itself.
ReplyDeleteMid-South.
ReplyDeleteSee, that doesn't sound as crazy once you realize that Tyson was (and likely still is) a huge wrestling fan and came in eight years later anyhow. No idea how (or if) the logistics of that would have worked out in 1990, though, especially with Don King involved.
ReplyDeleteNow I am bitter that this never happened.
ReplyDeletethat's why a Warrior vs. Earthquake program might have worked with a least a certain percentage of the audience: Hogan gets put into hospital by Quake. comes bad, still in bandages and all. Quake tries to repeat what he had done before but out comes Warrior for the save.
ReplyDeleteI think that would have fared better. Not sure it would have sold out the Skydome but Warrior would have had a better chance of making it work.
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one who thinks they should bring back the Match of Survival? It made Tito look like a big deal just having Warrior and Hogan cut promos with him, and you could get some unique matchups out of it. Unlike recent booking where other wrestlers don't exist unless you're in a direct feud with them.
ReplyDeleteThat Abeyance has had a long career, he had the title just last year too!
ReplyDeleteI still contend that the perfect Rhodes feud would have been with the repackaged Rick Rude. Rude going off on tangents about some fat, washed-up, disgusting non-athlete infecting his ring, etc. Rhodes as the everyman. Basically the Flair-Rhodes dynamic. Then do wild brawls to pay it off. Rude winning that feud would have made him a great title contender. They were the perfect polar opposites.
ReplyDeleteHe looked like Charles Manson. He would have been great as a deranged psycho heel
ReplyDeleteAlternate Universe retcon:
ReplyDeleteRun Hogan-Savage II at 'SummerSlam' with Randy regaining the belt and continuing his awesome heel run on top. Do Hogan/Warrior vs. Savage/Zeus at Survivor Series (or a 4-on-4 if you prefer). Hogan & Warrior are finalist in the Rumble. Warrior wins the Rumble. Do Savage vs. Warrior (Title) and Hogan vs. Zeus as a double main-event at WM6. Then you have Warrior as champ for a year before Warrior vs. Hogan at Wrestlemania 7. If Warrior is doing great business, put him over Hogan to retain and become The Guy. If not, Hogan can beat him and you go back to business as usual.
Not saying it's BETTER, just a different way of getting there
Hell yes. It gives us a good reason for them to team up too. Then they HAVE to face each other just to see who is the best. It writes itself.
ReplyDeleteSummerSlam 89: Put the title back on Savage in a cage re-match with Hogan
ReplyDeleteRumble 90: Warrior wins, eliminating Hogan
Wrestlemania VI: Warrior over Savage for title. Hogan over Zeus (or some other heel)
Do Hogan-Warrior at WM 7
Yeah, that was awesome and I'm surprised they never did it again. It would have been awesome in 2013 in fact, if they had just done a straight Survivor Series.
ReplyDeleteBryan, Big Show, Rhodes Bros vs. Orton & Shield
Ryback, Axel, Cesaro, Swagger vs. Punk, Kofi, Dolph, Big E
Bray, Rowan, Harper, Kane vs. Miz, Truth, Usos
You could easily get to a finale of: Punk/Bryan vs. Bray's team
I think you're spot-on with that. Cena had been superman for so long that Punk just didn't have a ton of viable contenders in 2011/2012. It wasn't Cena's fault or anything, just the "hangover" phase of not having top-level heels following another guys' dominance
ReplyDeleteI think you can still get to the same place for Wrestlemania 7.
ReplyDeleteHogan vs. Slaughter didn't need the title, it could have been a grudge match with the same build up.
Savage getting desperate enough to put his career on the line for one more title shot against Warrior gets you to the same place.
Then Warrior vs. Hogan II is on the table for SummerSlam at MSG.
Hogan takes a sabbatical to 1.) Sell the injury from Earthquake and 2.) Give WWF a chance to see if Warrior can sell a PPV on his own merit.
ReplyDeleteIf Hogan HAS to stick around, why not a feud with Rick Rude or even go full circle with Hogan/Andre vs. Dibiase/Zeus? Give Andre one more big moment as a good guy and getting his revenge on Dibiase
Doing Hogan vs. Warrior at Mania 8 would have gotten REALLY interesting seeing as they ended up in the midst of the Steroid Trial thing and both guys were poster board users.
ReplyDeleteLong heel runs weren't "WWF" style at the time. If you look back, from 1978 through 1992, a heel held the belt for about 7 months combined.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. I enjoyed the Taker-Warrior stuff in '91 including some pretty good body bag matches. He would've been the perfect foil for Warrior during his World title run.
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly how it should have gone. These two were made for each other gimmick-wise. I'm surprised they never crossed paths in a major feud.
ReplyDeleteAre you suggesting Duggan become the Iraqi sympathizer?
ReplyDeleteSurvivor Series '90 was one of my favorites for a long time just because of the Match of Surival at the End.
ReplyDeleteNo. If anything I'm suggesting a RTruth turn where everybody suddenly realizes that he might be legitimately insane. Like he pearl harbors Warrior with the 2x4 than tries to lead a USA chant from a booing crowd.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see a psycho Duggan...almost like a Bob Backlund type crazy where he doesn't understand why the crowd doesn't support him. The idea of him trying to lead a USA chant as a heel is hilarious to me. Wish it would've happened.
ReplyDeleteEspecially if he pulled that shit in Canada.
ReplyDeleteIn all likelihood, Duggan would've just been paired up with Jimmy Hart or Bobby Heenan to turn him heel. That was more the booking style of the time period.
ReplyDelete...which is exactly what happened with Macho Man two years earlier. Before- batshit crazy paranoid heel who could work like no one's business. After- dresses like Hogan, only main events as champion if with Hogan (though I guess Wrestlefest '88 falls under the cage match assembly rule too). At least Macho had Dibiase, Andre and Bad News for challengers, though.
ReplyDeleteYeah he came out and joined Team Canada, but didn't really do anything of note other than shave his beard and cut his hair if I remember correctly.
ReplyDeleteThan that leads us to Jimmy Hart in a Stars and Stripes jackey
ReplyDeleteI love the Hogan/Andre team idea. That would have been a great piece of business.
ReplyDeleteIt would've been interesting to see Duggan join Hart's stable at that time. I'm thinking it would've been Earthquake, Bravo, Valentine, Honky, and Duggan. I may be missing someone else, but I think that's who he was managing at the time.
ReplyDeleteSo you would've had Earthquake still up against Hogan and the freshly turned Duggan against Warrior.
I've heard over the years that Hogan vs. Zeus was planned for Mania VI, so Savage vs. Warrior a year earlier makes sense.
ReplyDeleteYou can do Hogan/Warrior, just not at WrestleMania VI and not with Hogan losing the title to Warrior.
ReplyDeleteI think one of the reasons why Warrior's run flopped, aside from the lack of heels, was that fans looked at Warrior as the guy who beat Hogan and the fans when push came to shove, weren't ready to embrace the guy who beat Hogan. It's like trying to replace John Wooden or Woody Hayes, even if you're good, you'll always be the guy replacing The Guy. I imagine there's a reason the WWF didn't have Pedro Morales beat Bruno, Hogan beat Backlund or Savage beat Hogan (in '88).
I think if Hogan was champ, he'd have never done anything as stupid as go on a chat show to discuss steroids.
ReplyDeleteYou remember wrong!
ReplyDeleteI would be down for that. After Hogan dispatches Earthquake after SS he then start calling out Warrior.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Sting being the dumbest man in wrestling was not a gimmick.
ReplyDeleteI agree, that was definitely the formula for WWF back then. I contend that it would have made it all the more significant though, to have Savage get a long Flair-like heel title reign
ReplyDeleteActually, from 1963 to Savage's turn in 1988, the world title had been in a heel's hands for barely more than a year. 376 days, to be exact.
ReplyDeleteRogers: 22 days
Koloff: 21 days
Stasiak: 9 days
Graham: 296 days
Sheik: 28 days.
And Graham's reign is still the longest ever registered by a heel. Yokozuna and JBL are tied for second, at 280 days each.
ReplyDeleteIMO, Rude and Savage had roughly the same credibility at that time. Savage was a former champ, but Rude had beaten the Warrior for the IC belt (granted, with Heenan's help... but Heenan was still there.)
ReplyDeleteI honestly never thought about this until reading your post just now, but you're absolutely right and now I'm mad that it didn't happen.
ReplyDeleteAnd Buster was a fucking disaster as special ref. Vince might have been better just spending the little extra on Tyson.
ReplyDeleteSee, I've never understood this, because even if Tyson drops the belt he's STILL Mike F'N Tyson and still has the same notoriety and name value. So why not bring him in anyway? Unless Vince signed some bizarre contract stating that the "World boxing champion" would appear without specifying a name (which would be a typical Don King move)?
ReplyDelete"Father of the boy who doesn't win", indeed.
I understand the argument for Rude though as he could lay claim to having beat Warrior.
ReplyDeleteI'm still mad Sting broke Rude's neck (not seriously) and WCW never got to do that Rude vs Vader feud. Just because I really, really wanted to see if it would ever be possible to pull off Rude as a face.
ReplyDeleteYou could make anyone a sympathetic face against Vader. All you had to do was let Vader push the guy into a corner and take those 4' thick forearms in the skull a few hundred times.
ReplyDelete