The first two Clash of the Champions are now on the WWE Network. You can find them in the live feed schedule for Monday and Tuesday.
On a different note, are you excited for the return of Jack Bauer. I'm hoping the 12 hour format will cut down on some of the sillier side plots ( cougars and ctu moles). Also hoping this series sets up Tony Almeida as the bad guy for whatever direction they decide to go next.
I'm pretty pumped to finally have a copy of Clash IV that I can watch.
And I'll probably give 24 V2 a try, especially since the show is usually running out of steam around episode 12.
I'm interested enough in 24 to give it a shot. I thought it really stopped being an enjoyable show at the end there, but a 12 episode format sounds good to me.
ReplyDeleteJust signed up for the network yesterday. Runs well, though I was having a few freeze issues with on demand. Weird Firefox bug seems to tell wwe that my 1280x720 desktop is a mobile device, no issues with chrome though. The lack of using my tablet with HDMI is dissapointing, but I guess this happens with HBO go and hulu plus as well, so its a licensing thing.
ReplyDeleteI am curious to know if anyone else using Firefox at 1440x900 or less gets the download the wwe app page; I'd imagine there are still a bunch of people using a laptop with a 1440 rez, who might not get the network using Firefox.
Content wise, I am happy with what we've got so far. Ppv tonight, msg house shows, the lady Amanda watched Legends House with me, and call me crazy, but I think Slam City is pretty funny at times. Great value, just so I can watch old nwa whenever I want.
Watching Class 1 now, Midnights and Fantastics! So full of awesome.
Yeah, it's weird how 24 comes from the same writers as Homeland because Homeland normally starts off slow and builds to a climatic finish whereas 24 is the complete opposite where it starts of big then just limps to a finish at the end. Hopefully V2 will fix that.
ReplyDeleteWatching the first Clash and they just had a promo with Jim Cornette and Eddie Haskell to promote the new Leave it to Beaver show on tbs. The little things like this are why the network is a steal at $9.99 a month.
ReplyDeleteSince the subject of jobbers and that particular era of Raw came up, here's a question: in early 1994, there was a thin jobber named John Paul, who kinda resembled Anthony Michael Hall. He hung in there with Jarrett and a few other heels, and according to thehistoryofwwe.com, he's gotten some dark match wins over some established names.
ReplyDeleteWho was he, exactly? Did he ever pan out to anything in the indies, or did he just vanish?
I definitely miss jobbers. It makes all of the full time guys look good, instead of having full time jabronis hanging around week in and week out.
ReplyDeleteWe still have Dolph!
ReplyDeleteJobbers are fine for low level shows but it would never work for prime time TV again.
ReplyDeleteProbably example numero uno of a guy that could use a stint in a legit number 2 to freshen him up.
ReplyDeleteIf for nothing else, I have to appreciate Eric Bischoff because he's the one that abolished the jobber/squash/enhancement matches. I always hated them.
ReplyDelete"Up next on Raw, Shawn Michaels takes on the 1-2-3 Kid"
YES!!!!
"Up next on Raw, Shawn Michaels in action!"
FUCK!!! Well, here's hoping it's either the Brawler or Barry Horowitz.
They still have jobbers but now they are guys like Tatsu, Ryder, Kidd, 3MB, etc. Since none of those are going anywhere, they should be used to bolster the midcarders more than they do. Give your regular midcarders like Kofi and Swagger wins over these guys on a somewhat regular basis on Smackdown and the B shows so that when Swagger has to job to Cena or Bryan in a 10 minute Raw match, the announcers can at least point to Swagger having picked up a wins recently and that he is a "threat."
ReplyDeleteI think reintroducing jobbers, while keeping the stars away from each other until the special events, may be the way to go. I think they have to start giving fans a reason to want to order the network, and maybe by letting everyone know that you have to watch the special event shows in order to see top guys wrestle, they will be headed in that direction again.
ReplyDeleteClashes are fairly easy to find if you dig them up on the internet. I'd rather have some nice Prime Time, full seasons of Nitro, WCW Saturday Night, and other promotions. But, I am grateful that they are putting the Clashes up.
ReplyDeleteI don't know anything about him. Maybe WWF was planning on doing some sort of 1-2-3 Kid like angle with him, too, but giving him offense was probably just a way to offer "hope" to fans when a heel was on there.
ReplyDeleteI'd thought that was possible, as well. I dunno, he lingered quite a bit on WWE events as a go-to-jobber, so to speak, but it feels weird that he disappeared. So many jobbers from that era, like Glen Ruth, PJ Walker, and Tony Devito, all went on to have some recognition.
ReplyDeleteThey can't have jobber matches in prime time anymore, with ratings being such a big emphasis now. This would only work on a C-level show, like the old Superstars.
ReplyDeleteQuestion - were the jobbers always local, or did they have some travelling with them? I remember a jobber named Mario Mancini who seemed to be on every week on Superstars for a few years.
The internet tells me that he worked in Memphis too, and then had a cup of coffee with WCW in the late 90s, losing to Disco Inferno.
ReplyDeleteThe roster is face overloaded which is why faces end up turning into jobbers. Dolph getting a heel turn sometime after Sheamus's has solidified is necessary.
ReplyDeleteWhindam/Luger vs Arn/Tully - what a pop!
ReplyDeleteTotally watched this live while all my friends were being put to sleep by WM IV.
This is so awesome, they even left in the Main Event promo. Superstation!
Woah, 80s Sting music survives the music chopping block! I held my tape recorder to the TV to tape this theme, and remember Flairs theme right after, so it must've been this show.
I'd advocate bringing back jobbers by giving them exposure without shining a huge spotlight on them (because the focus, obviously, would be on their bigger name opponent). With any luck, you could find some diamonds in the rough. Hell, look at all those jobbers in the earlier days of Raw that went on to bigger and better things (Glen Ruth, Scott Taylor, Jeff and Matt Hardy)
ReplyDeleteI've been watching a ton of this old WCW/NWA stuff ... Lex Luger was nowhere near as bad as people say today. Especially in this 1988-1991 era when he was US Champ, he was outstanding. Sure he worked with some studs who carreid the match, but he was right there with them. I'm convinced Vince's cold feet in 93 is what killed him for awhile. But then again, by 97 he was crazy over again carrying WCW when he 'racked Hogan for the strap.
ReplyDeleteI know it was how wrestling used to be done (and seemed/s to work in boxing/UFC, where many challengers to the stars aren't given much of a chance) but am not sure a show with, say, 8 jobber matches and 3 "real" ones would be successful; I understand the "see the star show off his moves and finisher", but how many times can you see that before becoming bored? Even if it would increase PPV/Network buys, wouldn't it be countered by a drop in TV ratings because people would learn that Raw/Smackdown don't matter?
ReplyDeleteDid Ryback's segments get good ratings relative to the overall show?
Plus, if squash matches don't fill the entire gap between commercials, that means more backstage comedy.
Someone with a lot if time needs to make a jobber bracket
ReplyDeleteLike that tag team thing we did a few years ago?
ReplyDeleteTag team? Missed that one.
ReplyDeleteI'm stoked for 24.
ReplyDeletePosted in Network thread, but will throw it here too. Massive upload of ECW Hardcore TV. Episodes 72-78, a few missing, then 83-106 in completion.
ReplyDeleteThe first hour of Raw should be all jobber matches with one or two main event interviews.
ReplyDeleteWWE doesn't need local jobbers anymore, because they have Ziggler and Sandow on the roster.
ReplyDelete"Iron" Mike Sharp or GTFO
ReplyDeleteThey did use the same guys over and over. I don't know if they "traveled" with the company or if they were taping in a lot smaller region. Like if your watching these 93-94 Raws they're haven't left Poighkipse or Buskill in months.
ReplyDeleteSend him to NXT for six months.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, NWA era Luger was pretty cool, and I went banana when he beat Hogan on Nitro. He was a bit too punchy-kicky for me sometimes, but I think he was just fine.
ReplyDelete"OW MY ARM"
ReplyDeleteMy top pick for sure, he's Canada's greatest athlete!
ReplyDeleteId like that.
ReplyDelete8-9pm - WWE Network
9-11pm - USA
I just miss the jobber c shows like heat jakked metal and velocity we used to have. Now even the d show Superstars doesn't use jobbers
ReplyDeleteYou would get a LOT more matches on TV if you could get 2 - 3 jjobber matches.
ReplyDeletePlus it does away with, "Why is wrestler [X] always jobbing?
The Mulkey Brothers.
ReplyDeleteI never even knew when those shows were on but it was always awesome to stumble upon them.
ReplyDeleteFirebreaker Chip is my WCW choice. I have no idea why I liked him as a kid.
ReplyDeleteI for one would LOVE to see not just jobbers...but SECOND GENERATION JOBBERS!!!!
ReplyDeleteTell me you wouldn't love to see Nicki Ataki or El Hijo Del Van Panzer...see, you can't.
The thing is he got rid of true "jobbers" (or "nobodies" as my dad called them. He always hated jobber matches), but all he did was make regular roster guys into jobbers with actual names/semblance of gimmicks. Makes a ton of sense and like somebody mentioned above they have a bunch of guys they're barely/not using who could fit that role perfectly.
ReplyDeleteYeah my dad and I called them "scrubs." And that's what I'm talking about: the true jobbers/scrubs/nobodies that were already in the ring, wore generic gear, and sometimes didn't get a single shot in on their opponent. That shit had to go and thank god it did. I'm fine with the new "jobber" system. Like....Kofi Kingston is a jobber, but he has, as you said, an actual name and a semblance of a gimmick. That's all well and good. But the old system (on display with these network uploads of 1993 Raws) was so fucking shitty and I'm glad it's dead.
ReplyDeleteI'm fine with them using local jobbers again so long as they do it with acts that are over or who they intend to give the rocket push too. The problem back in the 80's and 90's was that we had to sit through Nikolai Volkoff, Dino Bravo and Bob Holly squash matches.
ReplyDeleteeverything from the Monday Night Wars is relatively easy to find, too.
ReplyDeleteagree on the more "obscure" stuff like Saturday Night though.
I sometimes wonder how old (or more specific: young) the ones asking these kinds of questions must be.
ReplyDelete*sigh* now I feel very, very old.
it worked the other way around at the beginning because at first it the perception wasn't "those guys are the new jobbers" but it felt like matches between stars.
ReplyDeleteI think that's pretty sad though: Kingston got several runs with several belts. what does that say about the "worth" of their championships?
ReplyDeleteon the opposite: does it really make a difference in ratings if The Shield squashes nameless jobbers or if they squash 3MB?
ReplyDelete(if not: why damage 3MB like that instead of letting them be at least a certain amount of danger to their opponents, so a potential Shield/3MB match at least gains much more interests by the fans than it would now?)
Fewer episodes and not being locked into a gimmick helps a ton.
ReplyDeleteWould you have rather sat through extended length Volkoff, Bravo or Holly matches?
ReplyDeleteI liked how squash matches showcased a guys moveset. I don't even know what Damien Sandows finishing move is for example.
ReplyDeleteI admit, Chloe's "Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" makeover makes my penis happy.
ReplyDeleteThis is why I want jobber matches back. If anything, you use a jobber to introduce new talent and let them look strong. There's no reason to have a guy like Rusev squash Truth and Wood, who should be used to build up the tag division.
ReplyDeleteSame with the other NXT call-ups. Put them in squash matches in the first hour and let them show off their move set.
I think some of them were under contract like Horowitz, Brawler, and Jim Powers but most were paid per date.
ReplyDeleteSo you're yearning for the days of SD Jones and "The Unpredictable" Johnny Rodz, eh.
ReplyDeleteThe wwe does need it's share of official jobbers,. Zack Ryder and Santino are perfect for this role.
Uh, no. I'm glad jobber squashes are gone and i hope they never come back.
ReplyDeleteShawn Michaels vs. Brian Walsh. Smell the excitement!!
ReplyDeleteIt's something that was before my time, so maybe that informs my opinion here, but it's something I have no great desire to see. Maybe a bit here and there- it's a 190-minute show, there's lots of stuff they could do that they don't- but as a regular thing I don't see the value.
ReplyDeleteThat it worked well for Ryback doesn't mean it should come back on any large scale. That just means it worked well for Ryback. Also debatable is if it, y'know...even worked well for him.
It made every "star" special, even the lower ones and you don't neet as much stars, if you have them only fight on "special events" and house shows, but I don't want to see jobber shows anymore.
ReplyDeleteAny particular reason why for the gap in episodes?
ReplyDeleteI am looking forward to 24, but I do fear what might happen to Chloe given the life expectancy of 24 characters and the fact that they have also brought back Audrey after they had her be raped/tortured catatonic by the Chinese as part of their vendetta against Jack.
ReplyDeleteThat said, they REALLY need to have the revival have several moments where characters discover Jack is up and about and basically shitting their pants, going "oh no oh no oh no oh no!!!!!" and generally acknowledging the nightmare fuel engine that is Jack Bauer in terms of him showing up being a harbinger of bad shit being on it's way.....
Music rights?
ReplyDeletePoor quality of the master tapes?
Got taped over?
Take your pick.
I think once he won the title in '91, he really fell of a cliff in terms of being a good worker AND hving quality opponents. I mean, most of the time from 88-91 his ppv/Clash opponents were Ric Flair, Barry Windhman, Ricky Steamboat, Brian Pillman, Great Muta... it's hard NOT to have a great match with that crew. I'm not saying Luger didn't do his part; he absolutely did and you can see it in other matches with Stan Hansen and Danny Spivey (matches that should have been trainwrecks but weren't).
ReplyDeleteBut once he won the World title, it was matches with Ron Simmons and Rick Steiner (the angle with Steiner is one of my all-time favorites, but the matches sucked) and the Dangerous Alliance became the focus of the company while he was World Champion, which led to his who-give-a-fick-itits. His WWF run was the drizzling shits. And it became revisionist history that Luger was a terrible worker.
The first season they didn't have an order for a full season; so when they wrote the show they had that sort of first season peak that if they didn't follow through with all 24 episodes, the show still had a satisifying conclusion. I fell like they've tried to follow that format every year of having one storyline peak in the first half of the season, then deliver a new story for the second half, which (other than the Logan season) never really pays off.
ReplyDeleteMidnights/Fantastics was an insane crazy brawl for 1988.
ReplyDeleteThey used to run Velocity at like 2am here. Combine that with the commentary and it was the perfect thing to watch while baked out of your mind.
ReplyDeleteAhh, the old Ham and Eggers, as Bobby Heenan would say. The business has changed, jobbers are disguised as Midcarders with comedy gimmicks.
ReplyDeleteIt was funny because I noticed the same thing you did, as well. It could have just seen as doing a favor to a guy who was friends with someone in the WWF. I know that that isn't much of a favor, but what are you gonna do?
ReplyDeleteThat's a really good idea. Just get some of these guys off (the main) tv for a while. When they do come back in six or eight months, old will be new again, blah blah blah.
ReplyDeleteHow fucking hard is it to book a show as thus:
ReplyDeleteUse the top of every hour as a tentpole for "premiere" matches and angles with your biggest stars. Everything else is filler with your lesser guys squishing geeks and the occasional big star, because that's generally how it's already used (as filler) without the benefit of anyone gaining any momentum because they trade wins back and forth.
Seriously though, shit or get off the pot with guys like Tyson Kidd, Kofi and Justin Gabriel. Either they're stars, or they're not. Don't tell us they're great athletes when, have them only ever pick up fluke wins that mean nothing, then wonder why no one cares about them.
The problem is that their audience gives Ziggler a better response than some of their legit stars.
ReplyDeleteThe only segments that matter on the show are the ones that happen at the top of every hour, which is why the show's top segments always get booked around those times. Everything else is superfluous and has no bearing on the rest of the show beyond allowing Michael Cole to soullessly shill the next big segment not currently happening while Rusev murders Xavier Woods. The point of this space in the show is that it's supposed to be filler to keep reminding you about what's going to happen next, not what's actually happening at that moment.
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly does "ham & egger" mean? I've never been able to figure that out.
ReplyDeleteI loved those shows because you got to see the Hardys wrestle Kaientai every week in green plaid, or the "local jobbers" being Low-Ki or Danielson or someone.
ReplyDeleteSame could of been said about Horowitz.
ReplyDeletenitro didn't really do away with the jobbers until Russo showed up. Luger and Goldberg were always smashing them. And even the Cruiserweights had their versions of jobbers. Let's all blame Russo for this!
ReplyDeleteWcw Knew how to let many guys be themselves and get over. Luger, giant, DDP, so many booked better in wcw.
ReplyDelete