Scott,I know that Cena sells a shit-ton of merch and helps leukaemia -riddled children realise their dreams, BUT...
Has anyone tried to explain to Vince the cognitive dissonance that his product currently produces? If anyone who hasn't tuned into the product for a while decides to switch on to RAW, they see a product where the supposedly biggest face gets booed by (at least) half of the audience. As humans, we are naturally naturally inclined to side (albeit subconsciously) with the majority... easily done in the Attitude era where the main event was an easy to read dichtonomy of Austin (near-ubiquitously loved) vs Corp Champ (almost universally hated). But if you're an irregular viewer (who perhaps recognises the Cena 'brand') who tunes into RAW, what are you supposed to think? Being an uncertain viewer makes mainstream viewers... uncomfortable at best. How are they supposed to accurately assimilate that kids and marks love him but smarks think he's a dick?
Long term, wouldn't it be better to abandon the Cena-as-almighty-face angle and sell him as a heel, so the audience could eagerly begin to boo him and the product would seem more consistent to new or re-visiting viewers? Isn't there an argument that a well done heel turn can achieve more at the gate than a stale face streak? (See: Hogan 1994 vs 1997)? Would it not go some way into cementing the audience?
No, quite the opposite. Smarks would start cheering him for being cool again and marks would boo him. Same dynamic, but now you lose millions of merchandising dollars. I don't think there's any real solution to the Cena issue. One of these days he'll blow out a muscle that steroi...er, hustle and loyalty won't be able to fix and then he'll become the ultimate ambassador of the product for the rest of his life.
See, but it wasn't a close match, because Sandow had a billion advantages. It's not like he gave Cena a weeks notice and cashed in, or even that he challenged Cena immediately after a match, in which case a close match would have meant something. He challenged a one armed man who had also just gotten beaten down. I don't disagree with you that his moveset isn't that good, and I'm definitely not saying he should have won the title there, but it's the typical WWE mindset of "Of all the people in the company, we need to protect the guy who needs it the least, the most". So instead of a simple cash in after a match or after a brief but not huge beatdown where Cena barely manages to win, they give him every possible thing they can to protect him, just so they can justify even a close match. That doesn't tell me Sandow took Cena to the limit, it tells me Sandow would have been squashed in 30 seconds without those advantages.
ReplyDeleteI hated Cena from the start, so maybe there are people who boo him because it became trendy, or eventually tired of him, but I couldn't stand him since he moved to Raw - I think his character is lame. I think it was Kevin Nash's theory that to really be over women need to want to fuck you and guys need to want to be you - well I can't imagine what would be sexually appealing about a grown man who looks like a 12 year old, and while there have been wrestlers I thought were really cool and wanted to be like over the years, John Cena's not one of them. If they turned him heel and kept his character the same I think people would still boo him.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it went nowhere after. I would have been okay with it if it went anywhere, but it didn't.
ReplyDeleteAlthough some smarks may hate Cena, the overwhelming majority of people who watch WWE, and spend money on it, love the guy. Even though WWE has had a "No Stars" policy in place for like a decade now, Cena remains by far the biggest draw. it would be a very stupid move to turn him heel now.
ReplyDeleteThe intent was for Bret to make Diesel look competent, but I question the logic of using your world champ as enhancement talent. Just the wrong place and time for something like that. I agree that Luger or Yoko made way more sense.
ReplyDeleteWomen wanted to fuck Dusty Rhodes?
ReplyDeleteCena's the face of the company 4 4 4 4 life.
ReplyDeleteThere's no solution to the Cena issue because there's no issue. It's irrelevant to this band of circus performers whether they get booed or cheered and the ring, as long as they get some reaction. So status quo will continue in the ring whilst outside of it Cena is their biggest mainstream force on the active roster.
ReplyDeleteAs a full time smackdown watcher/non raw watcher during the time of cenas debut. I love the guy and so didn't the smackdown crowds. I remember all the crowd booing and I thought it was hysterical. Why would they ever turn cena heel? He's the #1 merch mover and hes already the top heel to the segment that wants him to turn (so they can cheer him lol). If you want, DVR and ffwd or boo him but otherwise he's not turning.
ReplyDeleteI was so happy this the was getting mega over. He's been useless for all of 2014.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I guess WWF liked Diesel and wanted to see if he was capable of having a good match before commiting themselves to push the guy, but they could have done that at a houseshow or something.
ReplyDeleteShocking, and revolting, I know. But true.
ReplyDeleteDidn't they try that with Kaval?
ReplyDeleteWho isn't attracted to a giant gut covered by a disgusting red splotch? It's like the male version of a beauty mark.
ReplyDeleteHe seems fine where he is at the moment. Have him upper mid card. He can work great matches when needed and sells the merch.
ReplyDeleteThe key to this, much like 98% of the complaints about modern-day WWE, is seeing WWE as a "professional wrestling" product. THEY openly admit they're not "wrasslin", or at least they don't want to be that, so trying to see their "stories" from that point of view is bound to fail more often than not, on purpose.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with their idea... is that those "stories" they're telling (or trying to tell) SUCK, pretty much no matter what prism you view them through. Well, except the "really bad TV show/movie" view, and there's enough crap filling that niche already.
He didn't win an actual MITB, right? He got that for winning NXT, IIRC.
ReplyDelete(TOO MANY ACRONYMS, DAMNIT.)
Cena getting booed by grown men is a great lesson for kids: there are a lot of people that the ultimate favorite. The underdog is king but the overdog (for lack of a better word) is hated for being too dominant. A lot of people loved Duke after they lost by 39 in the NCAA finals to UNLV and then came back to best them the next year in the Final Four. Then they became the Yankees and a lot of those same people hate them. It's the natural order of things.
ReplyDeleteLandon thought he had a spot just because, and half-assed it through most of the "tryout" period. As much as his presence might have mollified the bandwagoners, I can't fault Klinsmann for leaving him home.
ReplyDeleteThat would require the top personnel (Vince and Company) to stop focusing exclusively on the top guys. Such a move is... not desirable to them, sadly.
ReplyDelete"Who be bad now!?"
ReplyDeleteI think the grand idea behind a Cena turn is "THIS THING WILL MAKE ME HAPPY DO THIS THING."
ReplyDeleteI mean, I get it. I'd like to see it happen, but there's a thousand reasons why it'd be a terrible move and no real positive side to it besides my personal satisfaction.
I think a lot of people want to compare Cena turning and the potential to that of Hulk's turn. What they don't realize, though, is that (1) almost all of WCW's audience turned on Hogan, (2) Hulk was smart enough to see that, and most importantly (3) there was a huge angle that WCW had ready for Hulk.
ReplyDeleteWrestling is for kids. Kids like Cena. So Cena shouldn't change his character.
ReplyDeleteI'm dripping at the thought of him
ReplyDeleteCena being cheered by smarks as a heel is far from a foregone conclusion. You increase the focus on him by 10x, you have him be even cheesier and more of a goody-two-shoes twatwaffle- basically the Bo Dallas gimmick- and have him act oblivious to the hate.
ReplyDeleteSo what you are saying is... Cena OVERCAME THE ODDZ~?
ReplyDeleteBo helping turn Cena would be a masterpiece, if done right. I'd have little faith in WWE Creative's chances, at the moment, of pulling that off.
ReplyDeleteHe'll turn heel. Everyone does. It's probably just years away.
ReplyDeleteI could see him settling into a semi-part time schedule before turning heel for one last mega top guy run in a few years.
Yep, they all but advertised Bret/Luger as the WM 10 main event, then swerved us... Can't believe the match (face vs face) never happened. Luger was still mega over, despite all the chokes.
ReplyDeleteWell, sure, if you base your argument on a false premise anyone can reach whatever their desired conclusion is.
ReplyDeleteOkay buddy. Whatever.
ReplyDeleteHe's the perfect stooge for Cena.
ReplyDeleteI'm just thinking someone using a Raven "alter ego" to call wrestling "kiddie" is quite funny.
ReplyDeletePlus Luger failing to beat Bret could have led to a heel turn and he could have eventually won the title.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, Raven is Polo's alter-ego. Secondly, wrestling is marketed towards kids. Did you like wrestling more when you were 10 years old or now? Obviously when you were 10. My point is that Cena (or anyone for that matter) isn't gonna change what they do to appease 30 year old smarks (including myself) on a blog like this. Are you going to buy a Cena shirt if he turns heel? No. Is a kid who would definitely buy a Cena shirt not gonna buy one if he turns heel? Maybe. And they're not gonna go there.
ReplyDeleteWrestling is not for kids. Wrestling is for who you want it to be. If you aim it to kids, it's for kids, if you aim it at (younger) adults, it's for them. The question is, which demographic will give you the highest ratings?! =)
ReplyDeleteWell you just answered your own question. It's obviously aimed at kids if Cena's fruity-pebble gimmick has been on top for so long.
ReplyDeleteGive him a suit, let him cheat a little bit and let him be the corporate champion and no smart will cheer for him.
ReplyDeleteIf he becomes heel,he should go Meta,start wearing T-shirts saying"Spoiler,I win"
ReplyDeleteHow much more did you spend on wrestling related products when you were 10 compared to now?
ReplyDeleteI bet you didn't even have a credit card at 10!! What a mark!
Definitely lots of "Misses" for the WWF in 1994, that's for sure.
ReplyDeleteThat would be the shit
ReplyDeleteYeah, the writer of this email clearly doesn't get it.
ReplyDeleteHey, a "Cena should turn heel" e-mail. That sounds like a fresh thought...
ReplyDeleteSincerely, The year 2006.
The positive is non stale, fresh life. You realize all the money is made still on wrestling.
ReplyDeleteJohn Cena face merchandise for the rest of his career < Multiple number 1 Babyface Merch with well presented stories.
People who defend Cena's face run have no eye toward the future.
Wrong. Back then, I used to do mad chores to earn allowance to buy PPVs. Other than sampling the network (which I won't be renewing in August) and buying 3 WWE DVDs on Amazon (used), I haven't spent a penny on wrestling related products since I attended a PPV in 2000.
ReplyDeleteI think Bo has a nice future with that character
ReplyDeleteI don't know. Cena or Kingston or Santino are looking like leftovers from a different time compared to newer gimmicks like Shield or Wyatts or Cesaro. Cena looks like if you would bring a yellow and red Hogan into the Attitude time - just out of place.
ReplyDeleteThing is, Cena's heel turn is like fine wine. The longer they wait, the better it will be. So they are absolutely not flushing away money by not doing there. Imagine had they done it in 2006 when this "turn cena heel" stuff started. It would have meant NOTHING. in 2008, it would have been big, in 2010, huge... 2014, monumental... 2016... LOOK OUT.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your overall point but Duke was only babyface to a certain demographic. They were HUGE heels to a certain other demographic; however, you are on point with the Yankee example.
ReplyDeleteAustin and Hogan were underdogs that you expected to win, if that makes sense. I thought D-Bry was on the same path before the silliness with Kane.
For me, by the way, the grand idea is WWE presenting wrestling in a simulated sports fashion. Creating great storylines, a good product, and in the end, more money for all the boys everywhere.
ReplyDeleteThis is not happening.
Yeah, Cena is already a heel.
ReplyDeleteHow?
ReplyDeleteI'm way past the Cena turning heel thing, I would just really love for them to do something interesting with the character. As been noted before, this feud was the perfect time for it, but he just no-sells everything cause of hustle, loyalty, and respect.
ReplyDeleteThe real question is, why do I keep seeing so many Blog of Doomers at the merch table buying Cena swag? :D
ReplyDeleteI agree with this. They do seem to be trying to bring back a bit of harder edge with guys like The Shield and Cesaro.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I'm in the same boat as you, but I think your outlook is shortsighted when it comes to kids. There's a reason they only give a Fuck about 18-35 male demo.
ReplyDeleteA good hero is the one that shows vulnerabilty,the reason why I like Bryan is because he acts like human being,when they screwed him,he was pissed.When HHH attacked him,he came back with revenge.
ReplyDelete6:40 mark. Listen to the crowd ROAR after the kickout/hulk-up!!
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnxpAwUWzy4
Cheer or boo, Cena NEVER gets that kind of embarrassing silence.
Cena is perfect in the role he has right now: a blank slate that other wrestlers use as a stepping stone.
ReplyDeleteRight now John represents nothing. However, his opponents use that to build up their own visage of what he represents. The Rock, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan and Bray Wyatt have used that to perfection. Those incapable of doing so - like ADR and Randy Orton - fell flat on their face during their respective feuds.
As long as you keep giving him talented opponents and spare him the bland atypical heels, Cena continues to look strong and will keep moving merch until the cows come home.
Sgt. Kruger was Ray Apollo, according to the Dec 24, 1990 issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter.
ReplyDeleteWell, he's already a heel for 1/2 the audience. People who keep hoping for a heel turn are really just wanting to cheer for him.
ReplyDeletePretty much
ReplyDeleteEXACTLY! There are actual stakes to this D-Bry thing. The promo he cut on Steph was almost perfect. He can't give up the belt cause it means a lot. He can't let his wife get fired cause that means alot also. An angle with actual stakes - imagine that
ReplyDeleteThat's not a heel,that's a badly booked babyface.
ReplyDeleteLol moveset.
ReplyDeleteGo fuck yourself
Here's an apt metaphor for John Cena: he's a DC hero in what has become a Marvel universe.
ReplyDeleteIf Cena came out in a yellow and purple cape I would mark out like a 12 year old girl.
ReplyDeleteBusted
ReplyDeleteYes,Bryan panders to the crowd.But you can see that he likes them,Cena just feels forced.Another example of great vulnerabilty moment,Orton/Christian at MITB,Orton snapped and lost the match,him looking down at the end was a cool moment.
ReplyDeleteSadly, every time Bryan shows vulnerability or adversity, the people here misinterpret this as him being "buried".
ReplyDeleteAll you have to do to keep Cena heel to EVERYONE is keep doing the same schtick he's doing now, but do it to the point where even the announcers are pointing out how disingenuous he is.
ReplyDeleteLiterally no reason besides your stale product that is the reason you're around. Other than that, nope.
ReplyDeleteThey are very aware of the reactions that Cena gets and they book accordingly. There are a bunch of people who will be tuning in specifically to root for Wyatt tonight.
ReplyDeleteYou mean embracing hate didn't have stakes!
ReplyDeleteTheir showdown at the Spectrum in Philly was equally brutal.
ReplyDeletePeople complain about the Wyatt thing,but it made sense in a way,he couldn't beat them,everytime he tried,so he felt weak.
ReplyDeleteYep, then he outsmarted them by PRETENDING to join them. not by actually joining them.
ReplyDeleteDo it 10x,add a Kanye West like persona and have his Bella doing a makeover on him.Best heel of all times made.
ReplyDeleteI like Bo!
ReplyDeleteWell, he did get to bang his supposed best friends girl, so there is that.
ReplyDeleteNot even Superman is in that level of boy scout.
ReplyDelete.... Grammar slam??
ReplyDeleteGood point.
ReplyDeleteI've given up on the idea that he turns heel long a few years ago. Remember when Punk was the number one heel yet got the biggest babyface reaction every week?
ReplyDeleteThat's it.We need a hero that bleeds.There's a reason why Spider-man is extremely relatable,he has problems like everyone.
ReplyDeleteA Cena heel turn done properly - wherein he becomes a proper anti-hero - would more than make up for any loss of merch. It might even work out being a bigger spinner for them.
ReplyDeleteAlas, they'd never, ever do it.
He reminds me of Early Angle.
ReplyDeleteThat's true. And she was smoking hot.
ReplyDeleteWell, they turned him heel on John Cena and the Rock. And Jerry Lawler. And Ryback. And The Rock. And Paul Bearer. And the Undertaker.
ReplyDeleteMan, that heel run SUCKED.
Unless he's facing off with Orton in a royal rumble.
ReplyDeletebecause at every merch booth they have 10 cena shirts hanging up, and you have to walk to some different merch booth to buy the Goldust shirt you wanted in the first place? Except then you get distracted by a stand that sells beer right next to where Mr. Backlund is taking pictures with fans and putting them in the Crossface Chickenwing. but you still need to buy something for your nephew.
ReplyDeleteEXACTLY. in 1995 WCW, the announcers kept acting as if it was WM 3 with hogan getting huge pops. It was "Iraqi information minister" type stupid. But the WWE announcers always acknowledge the boos in the crowd, they often even add that to the storylines, just like now.
ReplyDeleteYes,they acknoledge the chants now,but he's still booked as the company's face.
ReplyDeleteRoman Reigns on the other hand, women AND men want to fuck, and who doesn't want hair that makes even Kevin Nash weep.
ReplyDelete"for your nephew"
ReplyDeleteSuuuuuuuuure... your "nephew" ;)
That's why Austin was so over. He got beatdowns, got screwed, etcetera - he was almost unbeatable whilst on top, yes, but you felt that the deck was legitimately stacked against him. You felt as if Vince would never run out of way to fuck Austin over - and you were never sure whether Austin would be able to overcome those odds.
ReplyDelete... Because he IS the company's face for lots of fans. But the other part of the crowd has the right to boo, and they don't hide that fact. I don't see what the problem is.
ReplyDeleteThe guys looks like he
ReplyDeleteWWE logic: It's ok to take your best friend's girl.....as long as she is smoking hot.
ReplyDeleteI hate the briefcase cash-in. Just have it be for a title shot at Summerslam or something.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is he saying that Cena is a heel.
ReplyDeleteReally?? He just stunned everyone at all times, then drank steve-weisers. Even when guys like Taker and Kane were after him, he just no sold any fear, said he would kick their ass, then kicked their ass, and drank more beer.
ReplyDeleteTriple threat match with Kane and Taker,Austin showed vulnerabilty,he knew he was not gonna escape that time.
ReplyDeleteTGGI.
ReplyDeleteI liked it, mostly because Punk was clearly having fun with it. Every single week he pushed the envelope further and further. (but of course, still got cheered, lol)
ReplyDelete2 per year was a bit much. Glad it's back to just 1 now.
ReplyDeleteDouglas was solid in the ring and good on the mic in '94. I think if he had a real feud it would've helped. At the same time, there weren't many available opponents for technical masterpieces. Benoit and Malenko were just kind of "there" at this point (Nov/Dec '94).
ReplyDeleteThrowing those urn ashes at the Undertaker was awesome though. How could you not cheer that?
ReplyDeleteJust wait until Cena turns heel by joining up with Hall and Nash at the Bash to form the New World Order of Wrestling. Just you wait...
ReplyDeleteI don't that the smarts would suddenly cheer a heel John Cena against Daniel Bryan or CM Punk or the Shield. Especially if they aligned Cena and HHH.
ReplyDeleteIt was basically a 2 on 1 handicap match, where he still fought them off for nearly 30 minutes. I would HOPE that he'd be a bit vulnerable! And every time he lost, he just basically shrugged it off, and won the title back soon after anyway (mostly vs Kane after KOTR, and vs Taker around 1999). It was definitely "Super Austin", and "LOLAUSTINWINS".
ReplyDeleteSince HHH is ripping off Corporation,how about Cena as their champ.
ReplyDeleteHey, just because the receipt says "Cena T-Shirt" doesn't mean it was one. Ask Chris Jericho.
ReplyDeleteWell, there's at least two who did.
ReplyDeleteAt least you have more reason than most here for saying that.
ReplyDeleteI like wrestling now more than when I was 10.
ReplyDeleteIf they "only gave a fuck" about 18-35 Cena would have turned heel YEARS ago.
ReplyDeleteI liked it more when I was 16-20 then when I was 10. Or around 10, even.
ReplyDeleteIf Cena turns heel and all the fans hate him, then whoever he is facing becomes the #1 babyface and EVERYONE wants his tshirt.
ReplyDeleteIt was the South. Nuff said.
ReplyDeleteBonus points: Kahlua & The Botswana Beast were portrayed by Larry Hamilton and Bill Tabb. The South African "Tournament Final" at Clash 13 was given -* 1/4
ReplyDeleteYeah, but that was his appeal - he was a crazy ass-kicker and you'd have to damn near kill him to stop him. He wore black t-shirts with skulls on them, told people off, drank beer and stomped people in the face.
ReplyDeleteJonn Cena's a pansy.
Wwe2k14???
ReplyDeleteBut people liked Steve Austin. They wanted to see Steve Austin win.
ReplyDeleteTeam USA is fucked in their group whether Donovan plays or not. They might as well play younger guys and build towards the future.
ReplyDeleteIn the end,the face must win.Cena's problem is he does not sell odds.
ReplyDeletewho cares, USA never won anything with him, won't win anything without him
ReplyDeleteIt only makes sense when they have a top babyface to pit him against. In 09, when it was Cena/Orton boring everyone to tears..... No. Maybe now with Daniel Bryan as the top babyface opposing him? Well you saw the reactions at Wrestlemania XXX.
ReplyDeleteWhat makes me wanna see Cena winning?
ReplyDeleteTo see if he can over-come the odds? (Spoiler - he can)
ReplyDelete"If there's one thing I can't stand, it's soccer. Especially when people do it around me." - Kenny Powers
ReplyDeleteTJ: Superstar Billy Graham is both a Lemon, and a non-BO-Liever.
ReplyDeleteWell when Steph is talking about the face of the company his is she NOT talking about Cena? I mean a slow burn of Cena getting the belt with help from
ReplyDeleteThe Authority, Cena denying they are working together for a bit... I mean it would be a GREAT story, and could launch whoever would finally overcome the odds of Cena + Authority into the stratosphere.
Link?
ReplyDeleteThe Wyatts are pretty cartoony, more so than Kingston and Cena (if not Santino). They're like a gimmick from 20 years ago.
ReplyDeleteEveryone who he faces gets over huge anyways. Why tinker with what works? Because some people boo the guy?
ReplyDeleteSince Brock will not be there full time,Cena is perfect to take the title of Bryan.That stack the odds even more,Orton couldn't bring heat,Cena can.
ReplyDeletehttp://i.imgur.com/rGaAhA1.jpg
ReplyDeleteYeah the wwe is dying to turn this guy heel
Keep the brief case but change it to you have to give the champ at least a week's notice. It creates good matches like RVD / Cena.
ReplyDeleteJust Bryan to do these things,kids love him too!
ReplyDeleteit's on 411 and on his facebook page. Basically said he's done watching WWE, because he hated Adam Rose and Bo Dallas mostly.
ReplyDeleteBut they don't want Bryan. They ask for Cena.
ReplyDeleteCena outdraws him on house shows and merch, those are your two kiddy index factors.
ReplyDeleteStupid kids,is because of you he's still a face.You get Bryan,DEAL WITH IT!
ReplyDeleteAh, once every four years thousands of Australians pretend to give a shit about soccer until we're bundled out in the first round, can't wait to lose to Spain 12-0 >_>
ReplyDelete???
ReplyDelete"She he clearly hadn't."
ReplyDeleteleave chyna out of this
Well, it IS a hell of a drug.
ReplyDeleteThe Bret/Yoko series was Summer of '93. By 1994, Bret was working almost every tour with Owen, Neidhart, or a Tag Match against them from after WrestleMania until taking time off after Survivor Series.
ReplyDeleteMega Over? He got a polite golfer clap. The 1-2-3 Kid was more over than him.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad, because I find Sandow really fucking dull in the ring
ReplyDeleteIf you can't remember who's holding the IC title at any given time, there's always at least a 40% chance that it's Christian.
ReplyDeleteEh, I liked the unpredictableness of it, made it more fun.
ReplyDeleteThank the Outlaws for that.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that unpredictable is good. I just love me some classic "you got the title, I feel I'm ready for the title, give me a shot."
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, two matches that I love that had that storyline were John Cena losses--to RVD and Daniel Bryan. I thought the former was one of the most fun environments a wrestling match was ever contested in (topped only by MITB '11) and the latter was my vote for match of the year in 2013.
Same here. There's youtube videos of "top 10 moves" of wrestlers, and like 4 of them from Sandow were just repeated strikes. like multiple elbows and stuff. And his finisher is a freaking neck breaker. This ain't the 80's anymore.
ReplyDeleteIts called the clique gaining power in 94
ReplyDeleteLuger could have easily taken Backlund's spot.
ReplyDelete