Hey Scott,
Long time fan, first time writer.
I always thought that Doink the Clown was great as a heel when he first came into WWF, Matt Borne played it so well and I thought it was a huge missed opportunity when he turned face.
My question is:
Could a heel Doink like gimmick work nowadays??
Jack.
Isn't that basically what Dean Ambrose was doing for a long time? So yeah, it could definitely work.
Crazzy Steve in TNA is doing that kind of gimmick, but too bad 11 people watch it.
ReplyDeleteWant to take away any type of fan support Ambrose has? Turn him into Deank the clown.
Wasn't there a rumor back in 1999 when they split the Headbangers (so Mosh could become you know who) that Thrasher would return under an evil clown gimmick?
ReplyDeleteI have a feeling if they did a heel Doink today, they'd take a slightly different route. Instead of just presenting him as a clown, they'd explain away his make-up and dress as a "psychological intimidation" thing. Kind of like the original Goldust or, since Vince really has an eye for current pop culture, Heath Ledger's Joker from The Dark Knight.
ReplyDeleteYou know Vince Russo is DYING to use Vulgar the Clown as a storyline.
ReplyDeleteThey actually did some live shoots but they didn't air. Brother love was his manager
ReplyDeleteWhen did Dark Knight come out? 2008? Is so, then yes, that would be perfect timing for Vince.
ReplyDeletebzzzt. "Vince we should do a Joker-type gimmick like from the Batman movie." Vince: "I agree! I loved Nicholson in Chinatown!"
ReplyDeleteTriple H has been dropping Dark Knight quotes for weeks, foreshadowing!
ReplyDeleteI've said it elsewhere on here I'll say it again. Ambrose needs the super push. He is the savior of pro wrestling in america
ReplyDeleteSo, Borne Again. Damn do I want that gimmick back.
ReplyDeleteThe original Doink did have sort of a 'why is this guy a clown'? Heenan would keep saying he could almost make out who he was on commentary.
I was surprised they didn't reprise the gimmick when the Dark Knight came out. A more Emo Doink played by the right character would go over well.
ReplyDeleteisn't that Willow?
ReplyDeleteBefore he passed, Bourne changed the look of Doink to look more like the Dark Knight version of the Joker.
ReplyDeleteNo. That's Doinks retard half brother.
ReplyDeleteIf vince ever bought TNA he should make Jeff be Willow just so they can bring Doink back to ..."what the fuck are you suppose to be"
ReplyDeleteI've always thought he was the most well-rounded of the three. He also has a very, very punchable face (and I mean that as a compliment).
ReplyDeleteAmbrose would have been a great choice to play an evil Doink if only for sol the Heath Ledger Joker comparisons he gets.
ReplyDeleteI just find myself watching him at all times when he is in the tv frame. His every mannerism, expression and move is perfect AND he can go in the ring. I just hope he breaks through big, I feel if this was the territory days he would be the king of somewhere like he would be the heel who just OWNS a mid south or texas or AWA.
ReplyDeleteAfter that awesome promo he cut on RAW, I'd have no problem hot-shotting him to the top. Seriously, that was the best "I'm going to kill you" promo in years. And that whole shaking-trying-to-control-himself thing is great.
ReplyDeleteYour nose is going to be over by your war. It was one of the best promos I have seen in a long time
ReplyDeleteOr...
ReplyDeleteVince: Yeah, Cesar Romero was great in that! You could see his moustache under his facepaint! Hilarious!
Agreed, I hope VKM and HHH were paying attention to the promo last Monday because that was about as good as anything in the last decade,
ReplyDeleteAlso he is a dream come true for them. He is getting over huge as a face right now but can be a great heel if they need it too.
ReplyDeleteIf this were 1982, he'd be smooshing a Von Erich face into a cage wall while cackling like a maniac.
ReplyDeleteHe's like the Rock, if only in that regard. He can be a top face or top heel, if they let him
ReplyDeleteVince probably hasn't even seen Jack Nicholson's Joker yet
ReplyDeleteWith El Torito running around I imagine Doink would work.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't that mean Matt is Doink?
ReplyDeleteSeriously, I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought it was the best promo I've heard in a long, long time. It just kept building and getting better and when he broke out the borderline-evangelical bent with the chest-pounding, and said, "Seth Rollins...my brotha!" me and my buddies just fucking lost it. We rewound it and watched that thing about three or four times. Just amazing.
ReplyDeleteKudos to Reigns, though. He's not nearly the talker Ambrose is and his promos are a lot more paint-by-numbers as a result, but he did an admirable job of following it.
The only thing about him I even semi-worry about is that he can get a little too on-the-nose with some of the "crazy guy" mannerisms and it sometimes comes off a little cheesy or spazzy. But I haven't noticed that with him as much lately. He's so great.
ReplyDeleteI always wanted them to give the "evil homeless-lookin' Heath Ledger Joker Doink" gimmick to Stevie when he & Victoria were together, so she could be his Harley Quinn. This was years before the Dark Knight mind you, so I'm a genius.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Reigns did really well too. Really, all three *should* be gigantic if allowed to do what they do well. As always, it's up to the bosses to allow it or not allow it.
ReplyDeleteDidn't he get sued for that?
ReplyDeleteIt's not a given he's ever seen the Cesar Romero Joker.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, and I think all three of them absolutely all have the goods to potentially main event a Mania. I think it's clear the bosses are behind all three of them quite a bit considering the level in which they were brought in and how well they've been booked the last 18 months. How far they all get individually is up to them- and us- at this point.
ReplyDeleteI thought Reigns was kinda meh, actually. But I'm mostly used to seeing him use his non-promo charisma, which is pretty great. The moment between their promos when Ambrose smacked his own mic to the mat before picking it back up for Reigns was a GREAT moment just for how natural their interaction felt. But for some reason when Reigns starts talking... he's not bad, but he doesn't have the same "it" factor for me as he does when he's in the ring not cutting promos.
ReplyDelete*rey's WM costume that year with requisite comment by jr about ledger being dead*
ReplyDeleteTotally agree, but I guess I'm grading on a curve. He's not the talker Ambrose is, but Ambrose needs to be that a lot more than Reigns does. Without it, Ambrose is a good worker with a low ceiling, whereas Reigns doesn't really ever even need to pick up the stick to get as over as he is.
ReplyDeleteSo for having to follow that absurdly good promo, I thought Reigns held his own.
agreed he isn't the talker ambrose ism few are, but he does what he does just fine and when you have his look and size his promo style fits him well.
ReplyDeleteRollins did pretty well considering it was a stupid sit down in the ring interview that I tend to hate.
Agreed, Reigns' promo wasn't bad. I guess it was just at a bad crossroads of following one of my favorite promo guys out there right now who just nailed it, AND coming from a guy whose nonverbal acting I love, and whose quick bursts of verbage during matches has been pretty great.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the sit-down thing can be really hit or miss, but Rollins nailed his promo, too.
ReplyDeleteOh, and yes, Ambrose picking the mic up and apologizing to Roman as he hands it to him was an amazing touch.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I loved Ambrose before Monday, but I became the biggest Ambrose mark who ever marked in markdom during Raw. That being said, the rest of the show was FF-worthy.
ReplyDeleteAmbrose is just fodder for Rollins at MITB.
ReplyDeleteas pointed out in the Raw review, it really helps than both (or before: all three) have a different style.
ReplyDeletenot only would Reigns have a hard time matching the "madness" of Ambrose promos but I also believe Ambrose wouldn't be as good in pulling off the "cool dude" that Reigns does.
tl,dr: The Shield is f**king amazing!
I don't know, I kinda liked Raw this week. Sheamus/Barrett match was really good and Wyatts/Cena&Shield was awesome. Give me two matches, an amazing promo and a couple other good ones (Rollins was solid and HHH/Steph cut their usually great heel promo) and I'm a happy enough camper.
ReplyDeleteAs for the rest...pot helps. Because I love what Sandow's doing right now, and that's....that's just gotta be the pot talking.
hey, he himself "admitted" that wrestling is basically "making stupid faces while rolling around in our underwear".
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Reigns doesn't need to cut scathing promos like Ambrose does because he's so good at conveying that rage with his physical charisma without being over-the-top, crazy guy about it.
ReplyDeleteWhich is fine. Rollins is the one who just turned; he should go over. Ambrose is the type of guy whose overness as a babyface won't be negatively affected by doing jobs, anyway.
ReplyDeleteWell said. I think he's an overall more polished performer that most of the roster. He can sell really well, can work either heel or face, cut great promos, and he can tell a great nonverbal story, too, which is important to get storylines across with live crowds.
ReplyDeleteI really wish they would just let dudes cut promos, even if they're bad at it. Sink or swim, just give them a CHANCE!
ReplyDeleteLook at Mark Henry's "retirement" promo last year. One of the best moments I can remember from a guy not really known for stellar mic skills.
Vulgar itself is a cool name for a wrestler.
ReplyDeleteSting, of all people, aped the Ledger Joker gimmick in TNA and it was as ridiculous as you'd expect.
ReplyDelete