I was reading through the TNA LOL wiki page thing when I came across this:
"
- Paul Heyman was in talks with TNA to join the company. However, he wanted full control of the company aspects, and wanted to get rid of all the veterans aside from one guy to stand out (if you're over 40 I'll rip your fucking head off) while building a younger, talented roster. Spike TV were fine with it, TNA was fine with it, but Dixie Carter was not due to her loyalty to these veterans as well as people who would be fired such as Vince Russo. The deal fell apart and TNA continued to go backwards instead of forwards.
- Heyman later let slip that he would've tried to steal Daniel Bryan Danielson away from WWE after Tiegate happened and build him up as an unstoppable submission machine for an eventual match with Kurt Angle. Your inner mark is now weeping for what might've been."
Great read and I feel far less sympathetic to TNA in general now. http://taimapedia.org/index.php?title=LOLTNA_History
White Thunder
Careful, don't talk too much shit about TNA here or people might accuse me of being BIASED against them.
I've heard the Heyman story before, and I feel like it wouldn't have helped by the time they were trying to bring him in. Really, once they switched from Scott D'Amore to Vince Russo they were going down a bad road.
Angle v. Bryan....is it possible to go over ***** ???
ReplyDeleteIf 2005 Angle faces 2013 Daniel Bryan, we're inventing a sixth star.
ReplyDeleteNah. DBry's not a better worker than Benoit so no need for that.
ReplyDeleteHeyman was going to come in,b but TNA wasn't willing to meet all his demands.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Bryan would've gone to TNA. I think he had a quiet agreement with the WWE to return shortly after "Tiegate" blew over. Then again, TNA was still respectable at that time versus what it is now.
ReplyDeleteYea, WWE told him not to go to TNA but work as many indies as he wanted
ReplyDeleteDon West assumed the role of Amazing Red's number one fan and stood on the announce table to scream "GO, RED, GO!" in the middle of a match.
ReplyDeleteThis was awesome
TNA's still around?
ReplyDeleteGee, that's too bad. They were great back in 2005.
ReplyDeleteTNA had 3 guys in their peak,AJ,Daniels and Joe.How could you fuck them up!
ReplyDeleteThis was so easy to book,have them as the faces of the company.Joe is now lazy,AJ is in Japan as IWGP champion and Daniels is back at ROH.
That's easy: NWA World Champion Jeff Jarrett.
ReplyDeleteDone.
NWA World champion Abyss,winning the title by DQ.
ReplyDeleteCoo, what's this LOLTNA wiki?!
ReplyDeleteOh BOD! Just when I fear I have nothing to distract me from work tomorrow, you give me this.
Add Monty Brown and Abyss to this, and it's a perfectly fine foundation to build on. But alas....
ReplyDeleteBrown wasn't great in the ring,however,he had tons of charisma.
ReplyDeleteEvery fuck up that TNA has made.
ReplyDeleteBrown could have put that company on his back and carried them if they let him.
ReplyDeleteYes,and he would draw tons of people.They could even build a Joe/Brown match mid 2005.
ReplyDeleteI don't think I could handle it.
ReplyDeleteThis. I don't think there was ever a doubt they were bringing him back. I actually won a few bucks betting my less in-the-know buddies that DBry would be the seventh man on team WWE in the Summerslam main event.
ReplyDeleteUnlike with Punk- maybe because of Punk's success, at least in small part- it seemed like they knew from the beginning that they had something in Bryan. He was the focal point of the NXT show: references to him being considered the world's best non-WWE wrestler, his fairly even match with then-champ Jericho, his feuds with Miz and Michael Cole.
He's done more than his share of jobs and his rise may not have been planned meticulously, but I think a good argument can be made that he was earmarked for a certain measure of success from the day he signed.
He was supposed to a B+ player,but in the end he became the A+ champion.
ReplyDeleteHe's twice as over, though- and Benoit was perma-over in his own right- so the crowd heat would be nuclear. I'd say getting a sixth star ready would be a wise precaution.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Bryan himself, he was legit fired and there was no plan at the time to bring him back. However, he was told about a month before SummerSlam that WWE was going to bring him back and to keep it on the down low.
ReplyDeleteAll that said, I don't think Bryan would have gone to TNA because although he had no knowledge of it at the time, I would imagine that there was a part of him that knew he'd be back in WWE soon enough.
Meltzer would give this ****3/4 because they're not japanese.
ReplyDeleteSeing LOLTNA,I can make this argument,TNA had every chance in world to be the best company and they wasted.
ReplyDeleteVery true, automatic 1/4* deduction right off the bat
ReplyDeleteHe's given ***** to numerous North American matches
ReplyDeleteI especially remember his Beat the Clock match against Batista, where he nearly made him tap out. Batista gave him tons of offense.
ReplyDeleteWhen's the last time he gave an American match five stars? Shawn/Undertaker HIAC?
ReplyDeleteDamn this got posted lickity split.
ReplyDeleteEven though it did their biggest buyrate ever, I feel it was dumb to IMMEDIATELY go with Angle/Joe. I would have kept those 2 apart for 6 months minimum.
ReplyDeleteThe steel meshes from the cage were made in Tokyo.
ReplyDeletePunk Cena
ReplyDeletePat Patterson had to lobby for Bryan to be brought back.
ReplyDeleteWell let us see the guys TNA killed momentum
ReplyDeleteAJ
Daniels
Joe
Wolfe
Storm
Roode
Monty Brown.
I think the Heyman/TNA thing was going to happen way before WWE even hired Bryan to fire him. He could have gotten him outright, while scooping up a bunch of other guys and getting rid of the dead weight.
ReplyDeleteI guarantee you the wrestling world looks a lot different right now if it would have happened.
having Chris Jericho and Shawn Michaels (among others) singing his praises must have helped, too.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, Chris and Shawn have no sway.
ReplyDeleteI love that Heyman interview. It's from an interview with Ariel Helwani. Interesting listen.
ReplyDeleteHeyman himself has confirmed this story several times. so it seems like there is at least some truth to it.
ReplyDeleteJust don't let him do finances.
ReplyDeletehere is the part about TNA:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoCEmPf1iQ8&t=6m15s
(starting at 6:15)
Yep, Desmond Wolfe was another one that actually got my attention, and was a potential star... Good matches with Kurt Angle to start off... Then on their debut on Monday nights, big chance to showcase him... They have him lose to the Pope... Like SERIOUSLY??? Then 2-3 weeks later, in a totally unhyped match, he beats Samoa Freaking Joe, and it's just treated like a total after thought... SERIOUSLLYYYY???
ReplyDeleteThere isn't enough space on the Internet to list it all surely?
ReplyDeleteI spoke to Brian a few times after he was fired (at indie shows) and he was pretty convincing about being fired. I don't think he was acting. He was definitely fired and didn't think he was going back.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad the /wooo/ article will hopefully be getting more hits now. I read through it on Friday and was laughing to the point of tears several times.
ReplyDeleteDesmond could no longer wrestle
ReplyDeleteBut they didn't know that then, right? I think they jobbed him out/turned him into a nobody BEFORE he got injured, right?
ReplyDeleteInteresting. I was just speculating about him thinking he'd be back in WWE, but I'm surprised he didn't suspect he'd be going back.
ReplyDeleteThey made a miracle listing it.
ReplyDeleteI think Dixie's blind loyalty is her biggest weakness, moreso than her money managing.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I didn't like was Heyman saying he wanted to get rid of all the veterans and make the roster full of 24 year olds. Revolving a promotion around green rookies seems like a bad idea. You need a healthy mix of talented veterans and young green guys so the young guys will have someone to learn from.
ReplyDeleteI liked the part where he talked about "The Ultimate Fighter", and essentially Vince is partially to blame for why the UFC outdraws WWE.
ReplyDeleteNXT says hi
ReplyDeleteI don't know about that. The first time I ever heard of/watched TNA was Angle's debut and him head butting Joe and then Joe rising and fighting back was immediately awesome.
ReplyDeleteBut on the flipside, by the time their 27-28 years old, they're no longer green rookies and are guys that can carry a company. Best part is, they have 10-11 years to make a difference.
ReplyDeleteAngle/Joe could have been TNA's version of Hogan/Andre back at WM3 if they just held it for as long as possible and you build Joe up to the same level as Angle for the casual fan.
ReplyDeleteI think he mentioned having just one guy over 40, that would have probably been Kurt.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, the type of control/demands Heyman wanted was pretty outrageous.
ReplyDeleteGiven the time period, I thought Heyman would have preferred to keep RVD over Angle given their friendship.
ReplyDeleteJohnny Ace got involved in that match at the end, and he worked Japan plenty of times. So he graded on a curve.
ReplyDelete(Was it Money in the Bank he gave it to?)
Well even NXT has a few WWE veterans that come down. They currently use Tyson Kidd, Justin Gabriel and Clay and heck even William Regal on special occassions. Plus they have other WWE guys always making cameos.
ReplyDeleteHeyman confirmed the talks on a recent edition of the Steve Austin podcast, and that TNA was losing more in either a month or year (I forget which is said) than ECW had lost when they WENT OUT OF BUSINESS -- about 7 million dollars. So, holy fucking shit what the hell Dixie? She's an idiot for letting Heyman get away. He could have really done something with TNA.
ReplyDeleteRight, but would you say the product is enhanced by Tyson Kidd and Justin Gabriel coming down? I liked their title matches just fine but, as noted by someone else above, those are the guys who would've been in Heyman's TNA for a few years and been the veteran hands. I don't think Heyman's idea was "No One Over 40" so much as "Everyone who's over 40 and already in this company really has nothing to contribute."
ReplyDeleteWhen ROH first started and had a bunch of talented young guys on their roster, those young guys improved on their craft because they toured everywhere, learnt a lot from different people and were able to work Japan. If a young talented wrestler signs with TNA, they'll be commited to working with TNA 90% of the time, so even if they're talented the learning process is going to be a lot slower for them because they won't have anyone different to learn from.
ReplyDeleteIs Bobby Lashley a regular on TNA now? I thought he was trying to be a MMA fighter. I saw him in some house show lineups. They keep him and get rid of AJ Styles?
ReplyDeleteI won't say Tyson Kidd is the reason to wath NXT or that NXT needs more WWE guys coming in, but my point was that you need a healthy dose of young green guys and veterans. I know Heyman said he wanted to keep one veteran, but one veteran isn't enough.
ReplyDeleteThis LOLTNA page is fucking hysterical. "and it sucked more than the Bellas in Johnny Ace's office during contract renegotiations..."
ReplyDeleteThat sounds precisely something that TNA would do actually.
ReplyDeleteHe, Kenny King, and MVP have a heel faction.
ReplyDeleteLashley isn't a bad talent, the only bad thing thing about Lashley is that he probably came in at a super inflated price, which is pretty stupid given TNA is in survival mode right now.
ReplyDeleteI still haven't looked at that TNA page. From what people around here are saying, it sounds hysterical.
ReplyDeleteHe had tried in 06 to build the ECW brand around Angle.
ReplyDeleteRead it, but once you start reading any plans you made for the day would be going out the window.
ReplyDeleteCrap. He gave an ROH match ***** in 2012. Elgin v. Richards.
ReplyDeleteI caught a glance. Well worth 30 minutes to a hour of your time.
ReplyDeleteHeyman's creative juices are going to waste in WWE since they won't let him write the shows. Instead he gets to come out and tell fans how Brock beat the Streak every week.
ReplyDeleteYeah if you don't have time to read it all then the Hogan 2010 era is probably the best part.
ReplyDeleteWait a minute, Brock did what?!???
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeYkW7FmlBQ
Right, but again, if Heyman takes over in 2008, Christopher Daniels has been wrestling for 15 years at that point and provides plenty of experience; he's close to the 40 year cut off but I doubt he's the guy Heyman is looking to fire. All speculation, naturally, just saying that I think his point was more that he would fire anyone who was a holdover from WCW or only there because they worked for WWE.
ReplyDeleteSpent yesterday and today reading that an am very pleased I did. How a promotion could be as bad as TNA in 2002 is astonishing.
ReplyDeleteHow a promotion could be as bad as TNA on 2014 is astonishing.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how much control Heyman had of the new ECW given how awful it was I doubt Heyman couln't have had too much control, but I thought Heyman would original build the new ECW around RVD since they gave him the ECW title, but RVD messed up. I forget what was going on with Angle at the time, but after RVD was out they then chose Big Show as the brand's main focal point.
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one who feels that Heyman running TNA would not have been some awesome miracle promotion? The LOLTNA page is hysterical but I'm pretty sure that someone could write one about ECW and make them sound just as stupid.
ReplyDeleteHeyman gets a lot of credit for his booking of Smackdown all those years ago, when he had the Smackdown Six and Brock Lesnar, which to me amounts to Mr. Burns telling Strawberry to go hit a homerun.
Eh. Mostly he couldn't replicate on PPV's what he did on Smackdowns. Other than Benoit/Angle, the Smackdown Six was pretty average on PPV. Gotta push that A-Train. He's a hoss.
ReplyDeleteYeah, on one hand Heyman made pretty outrageous claims saying he wanted to wanted to fire the old guard and start anew with a new younger batch of wrestlers, but push come to shove I can't see Heyman in good conscience firing guys like AJ, Daniels and any other talented guy over 30.
ReplyDeleteWide open Sunday night thread coming.
ReplyDeleteSo TNA has done exactly what Heyman wanted to do in the last year or so and people are bashing them for it yet they defend Heyman saying that Heyman would've made a huge difference?
ReplyDeleteThat match is like ***1/2 at best. And their rematch on ROH TV later that year was dogshit.
ReplyDeleteThey really went down a slippery slope lol. Though Big Show is better than Lashley.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like Heenan initiative would have been way more intense.
ReplyDeleteYes, but Heyman had the common sense to push the wrestling aspect when he had the best wrestling talent at his disposal. If any other writer was booking WWE in late 2002, I'm pretty sure the Smackdown Six wouldn't have happened and the Smackdown 6 would have been involved in dead end feuds that got no-one over.
ReplyDeleteHe was one case where WWE should have let him use his real name. He's a former NFL player for Christ's sake.
ReplyDeleteA couple weeks back we were having fun with Meltzer's late-WCW stuff... this makes WCW look like 2000-01 WWF. Just through sheer volume.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Daniels never got a good run in WWE is bullshit. And he's probably too old now.
ReplyDeleteHeyman's booking and general ability to bring out the positive and hide the negative would be much different than what is going on now.
ReplyDeleteThe page really showcases the key problem: From the start, they've run under the delusion they're keeping Vince awake at nights when the fact is WWE has barely even acknowledged their existence. I still get amazed at folks going "this company is the best" when that New Monday Night Wars shows that they go head-to-head and got their asses kicked. They keep going for the mega-group of heels running roughshod, over and over yet the TNA fanatics will always say any criticism is "WWE fanboys eating anything spoonfed by Vince and Hunter" and totally ignore how they do the same thing. Just amazing how they had ingredients to take off but keep shooting themselves in the foot.
ReplyDeleteTNA are saying that's what they wanted to do when they fired AJ, Daniels and Kaz, but I see no evidence of that being the case. The only young guy they seemed to have signed is Crazzy Steve. Maybe Bram too, but I'm not sure how old he is.
ReplyDeleteI just don't understand why people say Heyman is such a great booker, I mean, did anyone watch ECW from 97 on?
ReplyDeleteYou have to take into account how badly he was crippled by talent raids and shitty TNN.
ReplyDeleteAs the years wore on, Heyman had less and less to work with. I'm sure Heyman WOULD have killed to have ROH's roster.
ReplyDeleteHe was on TNN for what, 6 months? And the company was all but dead by then anyway.
ReplyDeleteDavey, Eddie, MVP, Sanada, Bram, DJ Z, Jessie, EC III, Manik, Kenny King, Spud, Tigre Uno, Crazzy Steve are all relatively new additions to the roster. They also re-signed James Storm, Gunner, and potentially Angle.
ReplyDeleteI'd take all those guys over the trio of Styles, Daniels, Kaz.
He was great from what 93-96 or so? Plus a lot of that stuff was really hit or miss. It's not like Heyman was turning dogshit to gold either. He had tons of talent on his roster.
ReplyDeleteIt was a hell of a blow for them to start on TNN... and then IMMEDIATELY losing their top guy (Taz) and their top team (Dudleys) right off the bat. Ouch.
ReplyDeleteThen they lost Mike Awesome, Lance Storm, Shane Douglas, etc.
ReplyDeleteThey're like the Vancouver Grizzlies. Sucked from start to finish.
ReplyDeleteI don't know...I've seen a lot of guys making the observation that so many of the ECW guys really didn't do as great outside the company (Dudleyz and RVD exceptions), hinting that it as Heyman helping cover their flaws rather than real skills of their own.
ReplyDeleteSimple fix. Those 40-year olds that Heyman said "He'd chop their fucking heads off", move them into training roles.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I'm not trying to troll or anything here, but please define what made him great during that time?
ReplyDeleteYou are probably not one of them but there seem to be a lot of people, on this board and elsewhere, who are nostalgic about ECW (and thus overlooking most of the bad) or weren't watching it and have only seen the "Best Of" kind of things and hearing other people talk about it.
Hearing him talk, he has a great mind for wrestling and seems to have a lot of interesting ideas but there was usually not much in the way of payoff when it came to Heyman's stuff.
http://taimapedia.org/index.php?title=LOLTNA_History
ReplyDeleteSay bye-bye to your desire to work tomorrow.
I've always had a theory that Raven had a big hand the creative side of things (the whole Beulah angle was his idea, for example). I don't think it's a coincidence that the company started going to shit when he left.
ReplyDeleteShame WWE doesn't hire him, but I doubt he wants the job and Vince hates him anyway.
MVP is 40 and basically semi retired at this point. DJ Z, Jessie, Manik, King are not new additions to the roster as they've been arounf for awhile. Davey & Eddie seems to have been their best recent signing they've done. Sanada is going back to Japan in September so he doesn't count. ECIII is another guy with good potential, but he's not that young.
ReplyDeletePlus TNA have ruined James Storm. Gunner seems to be a good guy to build to the future and from what I hear Angle won't be resigning nor should he.
I see very few TNA fans that will not admit the product has severe flaws. Especially at this state.
ReplyDeleteThat was Heyman's main problem (outside of never being able to balance a checkbook), he was good with the build-up but SUCKED at the payoff.
ReplyDeleteHeyman mad 911 over. That's about as "dogshit into gold" as it gets.
ReplyDeleteWell, maybe he should have payed them then.
ReplyDeleteI hear ya. People are acting like just because TNA lost AJ, Kazarian, and Daniels that that's the main reason TNA has gone down the dumps. I think it is more the booking than anything. They have more than enough talent on that roster to put on a quality weekly TV wrestling show.
ReplyDeleteAlso,they are hinting that Angle has re-signed because they are airing his comeback videos, plus he'd never ever ever ever never ever ever ever pass a WWE physical.
I'd be willing to bet that if Vince had Rusev or Big E or whomever just come to the ring and kick the shit out of people with one big move and never have to wrestle or sell, people would cheer them pretty loudly too.
ReplyDeleteThere's a difference between a dedicated fan base reacting to something they think is cool and having it be an act that draws ratings/merch/attendance.
"I could fucking kill you right now!"
ReplyDeleteThat's always the first thing that comes to mind when I hear 911's name. And he wasn't even called that at the time.
TNA fans are insanely, fiercely defensive of the promotion for God knows what reason.
ReplyDeleteWeren't there a bunch of 50+ guys in the promotion at this point? Like Hall, Nash, Hogan, Flair, Nasty Boys, New Age Outlaws, and Bischoff as an on-air guy. I think that's the group that Heyman is talking about dumping. And as well he should. TNA was trying to recreate the Monday Night Wars using THE EXACT SAME CAST AS WCW. Hell they should have brought out Tony Schivone at the rate they were going.
ReplyDeleteI do have one question: What chance does Heyman have of even getting Danielson? Unless Heyman somehow makes TNA wildly profitable, to where they give mini-WCW deals, I'm sure BDB just waits out his "suspension" and goes back to the WWE.
ReplyDeleteYou could probably throw Pope in their too.
ReplyDeleteBig Country is AJ Styles
ReplyDeleteDanielson was a free agent at the time due to him getting fired. He was touring the indies again.
ReplyDeleteSee: Elvy. And also see: WCW1987 (AKA WWF1987), although not as bad as Elvy,
ReplyDeleteYes when Heyman was in talks with TNA it was during the Hogan era. But Heyman was very specific saying anyone over 40, not anyone over 50.
ReplyDeleteMan they loved fucking Albert. Around that time every damn interview had something about how great a student Albert was.
ReplyDeleteOr for the hockey fans out there, the Atlanta Thrashers. Didn't win a single playoff game. Cool jerseys though.
ReplyDeleteHer biggest weakness is her ovaries.
ReplyDeleteI'd almost bet money that Vince, or Hunter, told BDB at that time "We're going to bring you back as soon as we can. Feel free to keep yourself fresh, but don't lock yourself in too hard."
ReplyDeleteHe was gone for barely more than 60 days, and the "biggest" promotion he wrestled for was Chikara. (or PWG, depending on your opinion).
WWE would have misused Daniels so bad it isn't funny.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I figured, too.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Unless Heyman found the money to give Bryan a sweetheart deal, I don't see that happening.
ReplyDeleteBrown was their Goldberg and they flushed him by having him turn heel and join Jarrett. TNA did plenty of dumb shit pre-Dixie. That's why I'm not too stoked for Global Force.
ReplyDeleteAnd he was a better heel announcer than Taz.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, from my experiences, you could say "see:any TNA fan, ever." I don't quite get it. A guy at work is a big TNA fan, and he constantly tells me how great they are, and how he bets Vince is pretty worried about them.
ReplyDeleteWell no, TNA was down in the dumps even when they had AJ, Daniels and Kaz on their roster. I think what irks people is that if TNA wants to get rid of AJ, Daniels and Kaz to save money, that's fine and understandable, but they fire those guys and immediately sign Bobby Lashley *Cornette Face*
ReplyDeleteTNA did have a talented roster, but in some ways losing AJ and Daniels will hurt them long term. I'm not saying AJ & Daniels could have been the next big stars for the promotion, but both guys are extremely talented, have a fountain of knowledge and could have taught the stars of tomorrow (like Gunner) so TNA could try and push their next crop of stars to the next level, but that won't happen now.
I can't think of anyone in TNA that a young guy can learn from. Angle and Hardy seem to be on their own planet, Roode and Joe would be great teachers but their roles in TNA have been dramatically reducd.
I have literally given TNA a chance maybe once a year for over a decade. Every time I found the product unwatchable. First it was all the score tickers when they were on the sports channel, that ugly six-sided ring, poor production values, and for many years simply how much they looked and sounded like WCW. I often wondered if I was being unfair in not giving them more of a chance, but even when my interested in WWE waned I knew what TNA was offering wasn't the alternative I was looking for.
ReplyDeleteA few months ago, as the wrestling bug started biting me again, I took to YouTube to see if TNA was as bad as I thought. Turns out it was 10x worse! And after reading that wiki page I see it was maybe 100x worse. TNA has been like the dying last days of WCW dragged out over a decade. God help me I actually enjoy watching some of it because it is SO BAD. The PPV & Impact episode reviews by Bryan Alvarez are hilarious.
Some day I may try to track down some of the actual good matches the company has done, because I respect the men & women who have worked hard and bled for that company. They deserved better. But TNA, man... it just needs to die.
From the interviews I've heard, he thought he might could get another chance down the road, but had no idea when and wasn't gonna sit around and wait.
ReplyDeleteNot from his side. You can't build a company if you have Dixie sticking her nose in every step of the way and wanting to be on TV.
ReplyDeleteI agree, while I hate TNA, I LOVED Alvarez' reviews, but I hear even Alvarez is quitting TNA.
ReplyDeleteElvy was a gimmick.
ReplyDeleteI have no reason to believe that Paul Heyman would have caught lightning in a bottle for a second time any more than Eric Bischoff could. If anything, he would have hastened the fall of TNA.
ReplyDeleteI do not see shit in Gunner. Dixie loves him because he's ex-military.
ReplyDeleteI doubt Heyman could have turned them into anything profitable, but creatively, I would have been hugely interested in seeing what he could do in 6 months.
ReplyDeleteHe's a young guy, has a good look and is improving. He seems to be the perfect guy to build towards the future.
ReplyDeleteThey money would have come from the exodus of the over 40 club.
ReplyDeleteHe sucks on the mic and in the ring. He's been there almost as long as Magnus and hasn't improved half as much.
ReplyDeleteI kinda forget his exact demands, but I think he wanted $5 million dollars to play around with and the power to fire anybody he wanted. Even if Dixie REALLY wanted Heyman to come into the company, I doubt even she had the power to give Heyman that much control.
ReplyDeleteJust reading the LOLTNA page and Global Force is doomed. Who was involved in early TNA? Toby Keith and Hermie Sadler. Who is banking GFW? Keith and Sadler.
ReplyDeleteThe blue one? That was awesome. I still may get one if I can find a Kovalchuk one on one of those Chinese jersey sites.
ReplyDeleteWell the thing with wrestling is that you have to look with the people with potential. You can't just push "great" wrestlers and bury everybody else because wrestling is a funny business and you have no idea who your star of tomorrow will be.
ReplyDeleteWhen Magnus first came into TNA, he had a good look and seemed to be improving, but this year he has grown really stagnate as a worker so I wouldn't be trying to push him now.
And Gunner isn't the worst mic guy ever in wrestling, I'm not saying he has the potential to be Steve Austin, but the guy just needs to improve enough to be considered decent and any good booker would be able to mask Gunner's flaws enough to make him a star. And Gunner has been involved in TNA's best matches this year with his series with Storm, so he doesn't suck in the ring.
I heard he wanted full booking control, talent hiring, and a percentage of the company.
ReplyDeleteI just think he's gotten a lot of chances other guys could have done more with.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that he gets pushed and Jay Lethal isn't in the company just pisses me off.
Yeah the more I hear about GWF the more it seems as just another vanity project for Jarrett and Karen.
ReplyDeleteEven that seems unreasonable just because I think guys like Angle, Bully and Abyss have creative control over their characters so Heyman would always need to share in the creative department. And I think Hogan and Bischoff and probably others have also had a percentage share with the company at the time.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think it's basically confirmed that when Raven came in, he had a big hand in the up-turn of the product.
ReplyDeleteSadler actually runs an indy company.
ReplyDeleteWhy be creative on the titanic when you can tread water on the love boat?
ReplyDeleteTheres no incentive to be creative in wrestling right now when the flagship promotion is hitting the skids.
Lets say heyman still has it creatively. Just for shits and giggles. He still has terrible toys to play with in TNA. Anything less than national and/or without tv is a waste of time. So why bother with that when you can safely get checks every week treading water.
Theres no incentive in wrestling. Its been stuck in the same holding pattern for years.
You have to give this to TNA: Read that page over and the fact they've lasted 14 years is nothing sort of a damn miracle that has to be respected.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying TNA keeps Vince up nights, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the main original programming on the network - Legends House, NXT and Superstars - is aired in a block on Thursday nights.
ReplyDeleteHomer: I have a plan that just might work...
ReplyDeleteQuimby : "Good... Because those garbagemen aren't gonna work for free...
Homer: D'OH!!
They have a rich oil guy backing the company basically due to it being his daughters hobby.
ReplyDeleteBig Country would be Cheex actually. Just white. (but equally out of shape)
ReplyDeleteIt's simple. They are desperately clinging to the hope that there might someday be another Monday night war, so they can relive the attitude era again.
ReplyDeleteSure it was an awesome time, but MOVE ON, FOLKS. Basically, College is over!!
The first thing that comes to my mind from that is Tank Abbott with a switchblade to Big Al's throat at Superbrawl 2000 while Tony Shiavone tries to explain that he is going to cut his beard even though he doesnt have one....WCW...
ReplyDeletePretty much. There will never be anything like the Monday Night War again.
ReplyDeleteThat's the incident I'm talking about.
ReplyDeleteThat's not America, that's not even Mexico!
ReplyDeleteNope, Heyman talks were before Hogan came in.
ReplyDeleteEverybody was hating on Show at that point, as he was (seemingly) at his all-time heaviest and nobody wanted to see a WWE upper-carder as ECW champion [boy would THAT get worse as time went on], but he was busting his ass at the time and worked well as the "establishment" for the anti-establishment guys/fans to battle.
ReplyDeleteSadly, the writing was generic as hell at the time, with Heyman being just another heel authority figure and guys like Test and Hardcore Holly being pushed. Blech.
So it's like Bischoff with WCW, only with family?
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, he was pretty great when he was booking Smackdown during the Smackdown 6 Era.
ReplyDeleteIt's like Billy Madison.
ReplyDeleteJeff Jarrett hasn't held a title in a while. And since nobody will give him one, he'll just create his own company.
ReplyDeleteThat first season of NXT was so great - the whole Bryan/Miz/Cole thing was fantastic, Barrett was obviously being groomed as a big-time player, and most of the "rookies" were decent in the ring.
ReplyDeleteReally sad that Miz lost that amazing edge to him over the last few years, because he was just PHENOMENAL at the time. Same with Cole, who was GREAT as the matter-of-fact "company man", and then became a totally annoying buffoon just a few months later.
But they've got over 500 wrestlers on the roster!
ReplyDeleteexactly
ReplyDeleteThey killed Storm when he didn't come back to beat Roode for the title. It was right there, and they felt they had to swerve us, because… TNA?
ReplyDeleteI suffered from flu like symptoms today... read the whole damn thing.
ReplyDeleteWith that group of talent I could have booked that show.
ReplyDeletePretty sure Bryan all but confirmed that's what happened in past interviews.
ReplyDeleteRead the CZW one that's linked at the bottom, it's even better.
ReplyDeleteI'd say Chikara and PWG are at about equal standing.
ReplyDeleteOk gotcha. Thought it was also a 91 thing
ReplyDeleteFavorite lines from that page? Mine is: "TNA forced (Chyna) to choose between doing them or doing porn. She chose doing porn."
ReplyDeleteI started looking at LOLTNA about an hour ago...and just finished. Really funny stuff.
ReplyDeleteThat's silly. The WWE had that same talent well after he was booking and the show was never as good. Plus, that wasn't the first time that Heyman put on a good wrestling-based product. He was, after all, the guy that brought the Japanese junior heavyweight style to the US and gave guys like Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Mysterio, Storm and others their first really good exposure in North America. He was letting those guys put on 25 minute matches! Actually, in early ECW he booked a very balanced show, that appealed to a number of tastes within his audience. He also did the best he could with a pretty precarious roster situation in ECW's later years.
ReplyDeleteHe is no miracle worker or anything, but acting like he has never done anything good is just silly. He has outperformed others given the same talent level to work with, which to me = good booker.
Heyman has stated in interviews that he's done booking wrestling. He's perfectly fine with being a heel manager.
ReplyDeleteThe amount of people listed in that LOLTNA timeline that appeared for the company once or twice and disappeared without explanation is staggering. I didn't know half these people ever showed up in TNA.
ReplyDeleteHoly shit! I cannot wait to start reading this.
ReplyDeleteRuined Raven who did amazing as champion in 2005.
ReplyDeleteTrue but he has all the tools to get mega over with their audience. He would actually work as a new third member of The Shield.
ReplyDeleteI think he realized the jig is up in MMA. He isn't beating anybody remotely tough or relevant or with a winning record.
ReplyDeleteShow was overworked doing like five long matches a week at his heaviest. When he lost the title he seriously looked on deaths door; all pale with bloodshot eyes. He was totally different in his 08 return.
ReplyDeleteWorst case scenario they have way better tv on their way down.
ReplyDeleteHeyman would not make Eric Young champion.
ReplyDeleteNeedless to say, she made the right call.
ReplyDelete