Scott, reading the Sandow/Cody post earlier and watching Kofi get squashed by Kane again got me thinking of when I had Kofi pegged as a main eventer.
Fall of 09 Kofi is in a pretty high profile feud with Randy Orton and Legacy. At Survivor Series 2009 he's down 2-1 against Punk and Orton and cleanly beats BOTH. He gets the huge MSG beat down on Randy complete with table breaking leg drop. They have a good/not great match at TLC where Randy wins. I would've bet the story was going that a down and out Kofi wins the Rumble, Orton wins the title from a green Sheamus at the Rumble or Chamber and the rematch sees Kofi win the big one at Wrestlemania. With Shawn/Taker II, Cena/Batista, and Bret's comeback Kofi could've easily gotten a high end main event push without it looking ridiculous.
He ended up getting 3 minutes in the Rumble match, a shot in the Chamber, losing of course, and was kinda thrown in last minute to MITB last minute never to sniff main event level again. Was this yet another example of Vince losing interest and is that excuse becoming the new "because WCW"?
He ended up getting 3 minutes in the Rumble match, a shot in the Chamber, losing of course, and was kinda thrown in last minute to MITB last minute never to sniff main event level again. Was this yet another example of Vince losing interest and is that excuse becoming the new "because WCW"?
The deal with Kofi was more that Orton got in Vince's ear and convinced him that he wasn't a main event guy after the "stupid stupid stupid" incident. But yes, Vince could have certainly repushed him after things blew off, and by then he had seemingly lost interest and moved onto something else. To be fair, Kofi has never been the kind of guy to step up and force his way to the next level, and he's always seemingly been content to float around in the midcard and play videogames with Punk.
I think Kofi has the talent but like Scott said he hasn't done anything to force his way up the card. Every time he WOW'S us with his athleticism at Royal Rumble in a way no one else in WWE can I wonder what could be with him.
ReplyDeleteNever forget that brawl with Orton as MSG that got him over like crazy.
Is it worth Kofi busting his ass off though? He'll be getting a good paycheck and has a decent spot on the card. Does he want to be given a half ass push to the top and then deemed a failure when he fails through no fault of his own?
ReplyDeleteTo be fair he would be a great guy to go up against The Authority, claiming he has been held down and he wants his chance to shine. Hell you have the back story with Orton and I reckon HHH/Kofi could have a good match together would actually be a hell of an angle over the summer and actually something fresh
I guess in his mind, as long as he's getting a paycheck, he happy to just keep doing what he's doing.
ReplyDeleteStorm had so many better ECW tags with Candido in '98 than the bloody (and that was all Jericho) tag with the HB. It was a good match but "legendary" because of Jericho's arm injury and the gusher, IMO.
ReplyDeletePlus if they're ready to mention Punk you could easily work his past friendship to use against HHH.
ReplyDeleteKinda really wanna see that now.
And sometimes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
ReplyDeleteI love the fact that someone has taken the time to e mail in asking about Al Snow's best match.
ReplyDeleteAl would be delighted.
TAZZ CLASSICZZ (go Network 'em)
ReplyDelete1.Taz vs Bam Bam Bigelow ECW TV Title Living Dangerously '98
2. Taz vs Sabu ECW World/FTW Title unification Living Dangerously '99
3. Taz, Rob Van Dam & Sabu vs. Shane Douglas, Chris Candido & Bam Bam Bigelow (November To Remember 1998)
4. Taz vs Sabu Wrestlepalooza '97
5. Taz vs Bam Bam Bigelow Heatwave 98
6. Taz vs Chris Candido ECW TV Title Hardcore Heaven '97
7. Taz vs Rob Van Dam ECW Hardcore TV 17th Dec 96
8. Taz vs Shane Douglas ECW World Title Guilty as Charged '99
9. Taz vs. Tajiri (ECW Championship/Heat Wave 1999)
Lance Storm is a weird worker in that, he seems pretty good but I can't think of many truly great matches he had. The Thrillseekers/Heavenly Bodies deal was a great one but that mostly about Jericho and the Bodies.
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame, because I think Kofi's got a lot of charisma and a lot of talent. Over the last few years, he's become a human highlight reel in Money in the Bank matches and most especially battle royals and the Royal Rumble. He's on a lot of their promotional work, as well.
ReplyDeleteAt the same time, as Abeyance said, I think Kofi is happy enough to have a regular job. He's like a one-man JOB Squad.
I just watched Al Snow v. Benoit from a Feb. 1995 ECW Hardcore TV show on WWE Network. Awesome stuff. Snow was noticeably less muscular at that time too.
ReplyDeleteEspecially HIS paycheck.
ReplyDeleteCandido had a great match against Lance Storm in ECW and Sandman's best match would probably be the barbed wire match against Raven.
ReplyDeleteThe Tajiri match was really good.
ReplyDeleteAl Snow vs Chris Benoit from ECW Double Tables is a great match. I think this was Al's first ECW appearance. He looks super generic, nothing like Head-era Al Snow.
ReplyDeleteLance was one of the only good things about the end of WCW.
ReplyDeleteBest Al Snow match: the hardcore match he had by himself at that Skydome Raw in 1999.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Al is very delighted Scott featured his email. Congrats, Al!
ReplyDeleteYeah, pretty brutal stuff. Definitely gave ECW a little "edge" it lacked once '99 rolled around.
ReplyDeleteOne day, maybe they'll give him the Christain/Henry thank you runs as a sign of gratitude.
ReplyDeleteAlways thought a Kofi heel turn would be very interesting, hopefully similar to the Rocky Maivia = Rock switch
ReplyDeleteThe think with Storm is that he is "technically good" and all, but his style plus the situations he was put in never allowed him to have truly memorable matches.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. If you're making good money, don't screw it up. I can totally see that line of thinking.
ReplyDeleteDecember 96 IYH vs. Flash Funk was pretty good for a Snow match in WWF/E
ReplyDeleteHow do you know it wasn't Al?
ReplyDeleteHas there EVER been a good Sandman match? The guy is probably the worst wrestler I've ever seen. Worse than Erik Watts.
ReplyDeleteI always found Al Snow to be incredibly boring.
Raven's ECW stuff was too garbage-y for me, but he showed he still had the goods when he got to WCW. His matches with Benoit & DDP were damn good, and I still love the tag match between Raven/Saturn & Benoit/Malenko from Spring Stampede 1999.
Storm was another boring guy, but I loved how he entered WCW and started winning all the titles right away. That's how you build a new star when you're desperate for new ones.
yup
ReplyDeleteI honestly thought the guy would be atleast in the occasional main event or World Heavyweight title match (when that was still a thing) by now. He got a HUGE rub by Cena (yes homo), and was pretty over at a point. Idk.
ReplyDeleteHas he ever been in a main event at a ppv that wasent the Rumble or that time he was almost in the Elimination Chamber match before Edge took his spot?
Greatest Hulk Hogan match? Stan Hansen (April 1990), Randy Savage (November 1985), Warrior (April 1990), The Rock (March 2002)
ReplyDeleteGreatest Mountie Match? Tito Santana (Wrestlemania 7)
Greatest Honky Tonk Man match? Mr. X (October 1986)
Greatest Al Snow match? Kennel from Heck.
Greatest Angle match? Benoit or Jericho or Michaels.
Greatest bad match? Adrian Adonis vs. junkyard dog - August 1986 or Adrian Adonis vs. Uncle Elmer - April 1986.
Worst thing to say to Vince McMahon after spending 30,000 on flying Hillbilly Jim to wrestle? Uncle Elmer showed up.
I used to like Bubba Dudley claiming they put Perry Saturn in a dress.
ReplyDeleteWhich, admittingly so, alot of us forget.
ReplyDeleteI was just thinking
recently "Damn, guys like ADR, and Ryback gotta be pissed being out of
the main event scene now and jobbing so much".
Until I curiously looked up their salaries, saw they both make between $450,000-$860,000 a year. Thats alot of fucking money.
yeah that was the one that came to my mind
ReplyDeleteI would love it even more if it turned out to be from Al
ReplyDelete"To be fair, Kofi has never been the kind of guy to step up and force his way to the next level"
ReplyDeleteTo me, this is pretty much the entire thing. Randy Orton bitching about Kofi making a mistake is just not enough to entirely alter the course of Kofi's career. He's got some natural charisma, is perma-over, is obviously a good-if-not-great worker and sure, something more can definitely be done with him if they wanted to.
But what reason is he giving them to move up? Reminds me of something Cena said, I think in the Daniel Bryan documentary a few weeks ago: you have to take a chance. You have to do something to stand out above and beyond just going out there, having a decent match and getting an OK reaction. Kofi's biggest hook thus far, beyond being a smiley babyface guy who has decent matches, has been his yearly acrobatic Rumble self-preservation. And it's a great bit- even though John Morrison was doing it first- but that's a once a year thing. Why not incorporate that crazy athleticism into doing ridiculous things to save himself in regular matches? Give yourself something, anything that's above and beyond that can't be ignored.
Disturbing lack of love for Taz vs Kurt Angle and Goldberg vs Raven.
ReplyDeleteHe was ruined several months in when he was programmed with Hugh Morrus and Jim Duggan, two technical and aerial masters.
ReplyDeleteWell Kofi is black, so until he dances goofy like Vince wants, he's never getting a real push.
ReplyDeleteHe was having some of the best matches in the U.S. in 1998 and 1999. Certainly would have been ECW World Champion had he not jumped and his tag partner Justin Credible got the strap instead (which killed the title for good).
ReplyDeleteTaz/Angle is a perfect little 4 minute opener and exhibition of a debuting character but "great match" no way. Raven/Goldberg is a nice little TV match with a happy ending but not even in Goldberg's Top 10.
ReplyDeleteSandman's best match is Stevie/Sandman/Funk from Barely Legal. Good not great.
ReplyDeleteTaz/Kurt is perfect. Raven/Goldberg is one of the greatest TV matches of all time. All out action from bell to bell, perfect booking, and a molten hot crowd.
ReplyDeleteSometimes it pays to lose.
ReplyDeleteHe'll need that "Hard Pill to Swallow" theme then.
ReplyDeleteI think that was February of 97. I hope I'm wrong, because why would I remember when that match of all things was?
ReplyDeleteI wonder if that was the same match that was at Double Tables. That was indeed a good match.
ReplyDeleteThat matchup would probably be remembered more if their combined anti-charisma hadn't created a black hole that even memory can't escape.
ReplyDeleteI liked Sandman's work in WWECW actually. He knew he wouldn't be able to rely on his usual crutches (he hit people with crutches, right?) all the time so it seemed like he was at least trying. He wasn't great, but he was no longer masquerading as a main eventer the way he did in ECW so whatever. It worked for me.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised Scott didn't mention the Al Snow/Benoit match from ECW that everybody raved about for years, seems like the praise stopped as soon as they released it on the Benoit DVD & people realized that match is dull as fuck.
Raven/Saturn vs. Benoit/Malenko is one of my favorite matches of all time, and it's been so long since I saw Spring Stampede '99 that I can't even remember why. I also recall that being one of my favorite shows ever, but again, can't remember anything about it other than the leftover awesomeness nostalgia.
Un-ironic choice for best Honky Tonk Man match: the MSG lumberjack match against Steamboat.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Kofi screams this guy should be in the main event? Because he has been around forever? I just don't see it.
ReplyDeleteECW (especially early ECW) had this annoying habit of proclaiming matches that weren't all that good as all-time classics. The primary example is the Douglas-Funk-Sabu one hour draw, the match Joey Styles claimed over and over was the match that brought wrestling back to the United States. What a crock of shit.
ReplyDeleteSandman was def a main eventer in og ECW.
ReplyDeleteIt was smart.
ReplyDeleteI agree, but he wouldn't have worked as one in any other company is what I was saying.
ReplyDeleteAgree on Horsemen vs. Flock. Excellent tag match that I thought was going to relaunch the tag division
ReplyDeleteGot people talking about 'em at least. "Come for the overrated technical wrestling, stay for the mindless brutality!"
ReplyDeleteBasically ever Lynn-RVD match
ReplyDeleteKofi's the new TIto Santana. In twenty years, he'll claim in a shoot that he "almost" won the World title but got screwed over by politics. And anyone over the age of 30 will go "uh, when did THAT happen?"
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that was the whole point. Every time I would see that clip of the 3 way, it looked like the greatest thing ever. Paul was a genius.
ReplyDeleteBest Candido match is probably a ladder match from Bluegrass Brawl against Tracy Smothers. It's held about a week after WM10 and I'm not exaggerating in the least when I say it's probably about as good. It's one of the best matches in Smoky Mountain history. Shawn/Razor might be a tad better, but it didn't have Shawn grabbing a Confederate flag from a ringside fan and low-blowing Razor with it as he's about to win, either. Also some really clever spots with the ladder. Well worth going out of your way to see. Smothers may have been his best opponent.
ReplyDeleteSnow had two highly-regarded indy matches with Sabu in '94 that are really what put him on the map a decade-plus into his career, but I don't think either match really holds up today. They're total spotfests and they do hit most of the spots, but that's all they are. Even by Sabu's standards he had better matches at the time. The second match features an awesome post-match scene with Terry Funk, at least. I haven't seen his SMW work with the Rock 'n Roll Express yet but it wouldn't surprise me if Al's best match wasn't in there somewhere.
Taz/Shane from Guilty as Charged? As in, the match that made them have a rematch in the ECW Arena because they thought their PPV match was that bad?
ReplyDeletePretty sure he eventually made it into another Chamber match at some point.
ReplyDeleteYep, they knew just what parts to use in clips to make it seem like a masterpiece.
ReplyDeleteThat's probably the worst fucking match I've ever seen, when you consider who's involved. A total abomination. They had literally no idea what they were doing other than, "let's go 60." I can forgive them a *little* because no one really knew how a 3-way was "supposed" to go, and it's not a format I really like anyway, but God that match is just the worst.
ReplyDeleteThe brawl was good enough for everyone to forget the obvious botch where they hit his music too late and Orton had to hold back from punting Piper.
ReplyDeleteExcept Kofi is by all accounts a company man through and through, and doesn't seem like the type to spill any "dirt" after his career ends.
ReplyDeleteThe 3-way sleeper is so bad it defies description.
ReplyDelete...was Sandman a worse wrestler than even New Jack? If Sandman isn't the worst in history, his stiffest competition HAS to be someone else from old ECW.
ReplyDeletewhenever i hear someone on one of these old-timers podcasts talking about guys being afraid to step up or more likely to be fucking around backstage instead of sitting and watching and learning ... Kofi is the guy I think of.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention all the extra stuff that comes with being a "top guy" - more promos, media appearances, extra stuff that would take up what should be an off day. I think they mentioned that he has a new wife and baby at home, so I can't blame him if he wants to head right home for his off days.
ReplyDeleteThere's a downside though: when WWE decides to clean house, the midcard types are usually the first to go and (unlike the main eventers) don't tend to come back down the road. So you can go from making 100,000 a year to a fifth (or less) of that very quickly...and that's if you're lucky. But once you reach that Edge/Jericho/Booker level and beyond, there's always a chance you can come back (health permitting) and make some money if the company sees value in you. That's why guys like Kofi should probably aim a little higher, because it pays off in the long run.
ReplyDeleteIncluded for historical value, the biggest match in Taz's career.
ReplyDeleteHmmm....I'm gonna say yes, Sandman was worse. The guy couldn't even execute a competent clothesline.
ReplyDeleteI'd argue that Tito was an even bigger "company man", though. But you may be right about that.
ReplyDeleteI used to be a guy who thought Kofi deserved another chance at higher profile angles but it doesn't seem like he's doing anything different. No new moves, uglier attire...all that's memorable are his royal rumble near eliminations.
ReplyDeleteI'd take Kofi, team him with Big E Langston as a full time tag team, and let their natural charisma come through. In the ring they'd be like a modern Hart Foundation.
ReplyDeleteNot everyone has dreams of being CEO. Hell, some people don't even want to be management at all. Kofi keep gettin dem checks.
ReplyDeleteKofi also got screwed because everyone he teamed with after Punk kept getting suspended for Wellness violations.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of which, when was the last time a violation occurred? Is that even a thing anymore?
Speaking of Al Snow...here is an article of a guy knocking off his gimmick in the indies for anyone interested:
ReplyDeletehttp://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/another-day-in-paradise-living-the-dream-with-tommy-snow-on-the-indy-wrestling-circuit-052814
Hey, just because New Jack never actually tried any wrestling moves doesn't make him a better wrestler!
ReplyDeleteHead Cheese was an underrated tag team. They didn't really get a chance to have a lot of great matches because they were mid-card comedy, but their tandem offense was really entertaining.
ReplyDeleteI haven't watched any CZW but I feel like there has to have been someone worse than both of them involved at some point. If not in CZW, then in one of the other "hey if we use light tubes that will be good wrestling" indies.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I cited Mr. X due to it being supposedly being Honky's last baby face match and everybody and the announcers turn on him. Not to mention Honky Tonk Wayne was a heel in Canada. But it is something when both the face and heel announcer buries you.
ReplyDeleteThe Candido/Smothers match is good, no question, but I've never thought of it as *that* good. Hmm...
ReplyDeleteSnow had a really good match against Saturn on an episode of Smackdown or Heat for the European title in 2000. At least, I remember it being really good. Haven't seen it since it aired.
ReplyDeleteEspecially since that match is where J.R.'s "IT'S TAZ!" came from.
ReplyDeleteRacist.
ReplyDeleteSnow vs. Douglas for the ECW Title was surprisingly good given who was involved. Shame Al couldn't win the belt like the story called for.
ReplyDeleteI love the RVD-Lynn series. I know it's not the hip thing to say anymore, but beautiful spotfests are beautiful matches. I thought the sheer athleticism and innovation was worth the price of admission alone.
ReplyDeleteI liked the first one well enough, but law of diminishing returns & all that.
ReplyDeleteYep. LOVED Team Canada and the multiple titles bit. Watching him have ***-plus matches on Nitro every week was a treat.
ReplyDeleteThat whole show rules. The Dudleyz promo was out of this world, and RVD/Lynn vs. Impact Players was super fun. RVD was so ridiculously athletic at that point.
ReplyDeleteI saw nothing about dancin' shuckin', or jivin' there.
ReplyDeleteThe Morris stuff wasn't that bad, at least at the start.
ReplyDeleteI think there is still mileage in Air Boom as tag champions but that's really his ceiling at this point, he's been exposed for too long to the fans, they wouldn't buy a push at this point.
ReplyDeleteTweak the character a bit and have a few key wins and almost anyone can be made into a player. Look at Barrett. He was a lost cause for a while and now he gets some of the best reactions on the show.
ReplyDeleteXPW almost definitely had some worse guys.
ReplyDelete_______ vs. Chris Benoit is a lot of people's best match.
ReplyDeleteStorm was so close to putting it all together. I really liked his catchphrases in ECW: "If I can be serious for a moment." and "Calgary....Alberta Canada".
ReplyDeleteThen he had that WCW run where he was winning all the undercard titles and people were buying him as a legit guy.
And WWE just had no clue what to do with him and did everything from Dancin' Lance to Giant Dong Lance, to "Boring" Lance. Which come to think of it, I'm really surprised Austin went along with that. Kind of a shitty thing to do considering he had the power to veto any angle.
I saw a REALLY old Storm Vs Sabu Ladder match that was pretty nuts and had a 20 foot ladder. Super indie, not even ECW.
ReplyDeleteSnow's match with Benoit at Double Tables is good sadistic fun. Bet Scott remembers it upon reading this.
ReplyDeleteRaven: agreed with the Gangstas Paradise tag
Taz: he and Eddy vs Dean and Scorpio
Sandman: barring his matches as Hak, I'll advocate for he and Sabu's Stairway to Hell
Candido: him and Storm from Heat Wave 98 maybe?
Storm: agreed, Bodies tag
the more you think about the way foley treats other wrestlers compared to the esteem he holds for himself, the more you realize he really is kind of a douche
ReplyDeleteI have to confess I've never gotten the big deal about the Pitbulls match. Give me virtually any Raven/Saturn tag from WCW over that.
ReplyDeleteFor whatever reason this thread inspired me to watch New Jack vs Mustafa from Living Dangerously '99. Jesus Christ, because they had to replace the song, it forced them to basically redo the entire match audio, complete with fake ring and weapon sound effects. It's like watching a live video game.
ReplyDeleteNot really.
ReplyDelete'sup mick
ReplyDeleteTriple H saw Kofi's concave chest and just assumed he must be doing the exact opposite of working out, jack.
ReplyDeleteAl has never had a good match because by his definition Hogan/Andre was the best match at WM3 because it drew the house. Snow never drew anything so was never a good worker.
ReplyDeletehis dented chest isnt best for business
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind they had 2 ladder matches around this time. One on TV which is just kinda there, and then the Bluegrass Brawl one. The Brawl is the one to see.
ReplyDeleteGiant Dong Lance?
ReplyDeleteSeriously, this was a thing?
Taz vs. Sabu from Barely Legal deserves an honorable mention for the whole buildup and the "big match" feel it had because of that.
ReplyDeleteYet, nobody ever speaks a bad word about him.
ReplyDeleteSandman and New Jack both have charisma, the latter could even cut a decent promo.
ReplyDeleteTagging with Val Venus and everything.
ReplyDeleteThe storylines help the match a lot, with Fonzy and 911 in particular.
ReplyDelete